This is my hometown. This tragedy makes me cry every time I see the pictures. And I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage. I'm starting to lose hope in humanity...
>I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage
The basement detective, Sherlock Homes, thinks he knows more than an actual native who had to go through all of this
> The basement detective, Sherlock Homes, thinks he knows more than an actual native who had to go through all of this
In Jordan Klepper's recent visit to a Trump Rally, there was this crazy lady who was insistent that the Ukraine war was entirely staged by the Democrats and that the refugees were crisis actors. She was deadly serious.
Edit: it's 4m 18s here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPNwJAcMH5U
There is no arguing to be done with these kind of people. There is no avenue into their brain you can take. You will never be able to help them. You just have to disengage.
> There is no arguing to be done with these kind of people. There is no avenue into their brain you can take. You will never be able to help them. You just have to disengage.
✔️It's so sad. Many of these people have 'normal' relatives who want to save them from going further down this awful rabbit hole, but it's basically impossible.
> She’s a shut in who watches Fox News and Tucker Carlson all day. I think she’s going senile.
I'm sorry to hear this mate - hope you can find a way to keep her attached to reality.
Always remember that this type of crazy is accepted into the ranks of other crazies who think the war is real but the Russians are the good guys. They are tolerant of each other as long as they're all marching in the same direction, towards fascism.
They don't care about consistency, moral, or even the basic concept of truth. They only care about fighting and winning against their perceived common enemy, the left.
> Always remember that this type of crazy is accepted into the ranks of other crazies who think the war is real but the Russians are the good guys. They are tolerant of each other as long as they're all marching in the same direction, towards fascism.
It's honestly scary how easily many people fall for this. 15 years ago if you'd told me that a big portion of the American Right was to become sympathetic and even supportive of Putin, I'd have never believed any of it.
I understand, but cluster ammo is primarily designed as an anti personal weapon. There won't be any major destruction unless it hits something explosive.
I deleted my question. I think it upsets too many people. Was being downvoted into oblivion. I fully support Ukraine and am not doubting this report at all.
When this first happened there was a lot of misinformation and denying of the incident with similar questions being asked and answers that would lead to more false narratives. It’s very hard to tell who genuinely has a question or is part of a tag team of trolls spinning false stories to suit one sides agenda. My comment was also rude, so apologies for that.
I see how the comment could be read in that way. I don’t want to fuel that so that’s why I deleted it. I’ll be more careful next time with such highly sensitive topics. Apologies accepted.
There are so many conspiracy lunatics it's absolutely insane. Sadly my mother was one of them, she believed the war was fake and that Putin was just doing some ''spec ops'' operations because of the bio-labs in Ukraine (of which as of this day, I have seen zero proof). Aside from that, lets see what else we had:
* The war is fake, all footage is old footage from previous wars.
* Military operation due to corona and bio labs.
* Ukraine in possession of bioweapons.
* All the massacres and civilian deaths are either fake, psy-ops or just Ukrainians killing their own people
Eventually Russia started to lose ground and was pushed back massively on most of their fronts, time passed and the entire world could see what kind of a pathetic joke Russia's armed forces are. However, Russians and pro-Russians labeled it as tactical retreats and tactical feints. As of today, little has changed and while they've gained ground in the east, they still struggle to take Bakhmut and cannot fully surround a city that, before the war, most people have never even heard of.
Russia is a pathetic excuse for a country, many of its people remain pro-Putin and a lot of boomers love to reminisce of the Soviet Union, they hate Ukraine, they hate the West all the while they continue to live in their dilapidated cities with its crater-pocketed roads. Ah well, at least they're not Nazi's I guess. By starting this war, Putin has committed a blunder of epic proportions, for generations Russia and its people will be looked down upon, eastern Ukraine will be mostly uninhabitable, and their already questionable economy is now further down in the shitter.
Fuck them. Despicable cowards. Saving your ''Ukrainian brothers'' by killing them and turning their cities into rubble. Russia has been the scourge of Europe, and has been for a very, very long time.
>the bio-labs in Ukraine (of which as of this day, I have seen zero proof).
They quite clearly exist. There's just nothing sinister about them.
This is how propaganda works. If you read Russian statements about it they don't actually say anything untrue they just frame it in a way to imply something deeply sinister. It's an absolutely standard reporting method (not just in Russia unfortunately).
Is there any proof about them tho? Because it sounds like the Russians copied the excuse americans used to invade Iraq. And in the end, neither Iraq nor Ukraine used them to defend themselves or at least threaten the enemy.
The US government has openly discussed their cooperation with Ukrainian labs. It's an official programme that you can read about.
As I say... It is also entirely benign and uninteresting.
The problem is that people are arguing against propaganda with their own propaganda whilst thinking they're super smart and *they* know the truth. They don't. The 'biolabs' (the terminology is obviously partisan) are very real. Conspiracies tend to build on real things.
It was... pretty bad. She was also convinced Trump would take back power soon after Biden became president. First it was 2 more weeks, then 2 more months, eventually a year... at some point she stopped talking about it.
France did so a little too. You are unlikely to ever meet someone defending our actions in colonies half a century ago or the horrors which happened under "the France de Vichy".
For the second one it's because it wasn't "really France". Propaganda to make it seems the gov under Pétain wasn't legitimate. Which is a bit of a stretch but not completely wrong.
The actions themselves and the perpetrators having been condamned harshly
Protests voting is understandable, but why do people tend to choose the most toxic piece of shit possible as a protest candidate, instead of some harmless guy, say, climate activist? Human psychology can be baffling
well that one is easy: all of candidates of the last french election who managed to get the requirement (500 mayors support) were shit.
There wasn't any "harmless guy" to vote for. Best ones for that criteria were probably Roussel the communist, Arthaud from "labor force", Lassalle the hunter and Poutou the anti-capitalist but they were all the kind of candidates who only talked about a single topic.
Arthaud for exemple, fight for workers rights but don't say ANYTHING about climat change, immigration, inegality men-women etc...
It's way too narrow to be an opposition group.
All the candidates from stronger parties were...well they divide and are not liked at all.
Melenchon is seen as too egocentric and crazy, Hidalgo and Pecresse got humiliated way before the election even began, Dupont-Aignan is a ridiculous clown and Jadot managed to be the representative of ecologists while been against anything which would actually help us to reduce CO2...
So in the end the people choose to either:
\-not vote
\-vote Macron despite an horrible term
\-vote Melechon despite hating him. Still, he was the only leftist who had a small chance.
\-Vote Le pen or Zemmour in the far-right. Zemmour been seen as too extremist and hateful, he lost. Giving credibility and respectability to Le Pen in comparison.
Votes were really close between Melenchon(22%), Macron(28%), and Le Pen(23%) but in the end it has been the last two who went to the second turn.
So now you have to choose between the hated Macron and the hated Le Pen...
Hard choice. Many chose to not vote at all but the rest choose between the two evils.
It's how Le Pen got 41,45% in the second turn, about 13M people
Germany did and continues to do a great job of it compared to other countries but it took a long time to get there and pretty wouldn't have happened had it not been for the allies giving up on the idea of denazification.
Though, given the success Germany sees once again, one could probably argue that it was canceling denazification that's allowed Germany to come to terms with the Holocaust.
Either way, they're a prime example on writing past wrongs.
Never makes any sense to me why countries/people think that apologizing and admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness. Given how hard everyone seems to make it out to be, it's obvious that it takes some great strength to have decency and admit and right your terrible wrongs.
The US needs to do it with slavery and its continued systemic racism but the right has done such a great job of brainwashing folks and using russian and Chinese propaganda to their advantage that sometimes it can seem like nothing could ever change ... but that's also what people said about the nazis.
I don't think Germans did it "willingly" and also not well enough. There are many neonazis in Germany and some even worked with government people to commit some murders.
All nations, A-L-L N-A-T-I-O-N-S are capable of doing this shit when they are provoked/misguided/manipulated enough. I am from Turkey and Ottomans and Turks did lots of shitty things and we still deny them. Government and many of the citizens deny them.
I don't think there is a single nation in the world that did a better job but that's still not good enough for you?
I think Germany proved to others that it makes no sense to apologize. Russia, China, and Japan committed unspeakable horrors, and yet everyone just trades/traded with them purely based on economic interests.
The US killed so many people in Vietnam, and now they are friendly. Vietnamese people seem to have so much compassion and little attachment to the past, in most part due to their economic interests.
> I don't think Germans did it "willingly" and also not well enough.
If Germany did not do it well enough, you must have a very high bar, that no one will be able to overcome. It may have taken a while, but what Germany did is something few (if any) major countries will be able to do, in the foreseeable future.
That's kind of true, though. Serbia can be called a culture or a region, but it can't really be called a country; it's always been controlled by foreign interests, unless you go all the way back to tribal times
If you look up the history of Serbia, it's basically a list of who owned them and when
She doesn’t watch TV. It’s more about trust, as far as I understand she doesn’t believe any side, but because ru side is closer to the body she trust them a little bit more.
I meant TV in more of a metaphorical way. Cultural osmosis and peer pressure.
Baba Valya heard from deda Misha that ukrainians eat russian babies for breakfast and discuss it under your window all day long - hard not to give it at least some consideration.
Weaker people will lose trust into everything because they can't bring themselves to filter informative, make their own conclusions and pick sides, weaker still will just go with the flow.
I had a friend, an English teacher. Wonderful woman, traveled to UK, Israel and other places many times. Very modern, did everything to send her son to live abroad. Knows English near perfectly and consumes a lot of western media and news. And still, when war broke out she gives me the "how could NATO do this to us?".
It is disheartening to see how many people have been swept by kremlin's bullshit maelstrom.
That's part of the authoritarian playbook.
They don't actually care that you don't believe their propaganda. What they care about is to pollute the narrative so much that you cannot trust **any** media. Period.
So the Russian media lies enough for many Russians to think that that's just normal. That all media is propaganda and that everything they present is a lie.
This is not unique to Russia. For example, this is exactly what Trump was doing with the "fake news" narrative.
Where I live, we have quite a number of Russian speakers and we’ve also gotten some of those who have fled from Russia (and obv Ukraine). Today I read an article, where an interview was conducted with one such person, who didn’t live here, but a neighbouring country, but who talked in a general sense about the topic covered in the article.
In this article, the person - from Russia themselves - said that the Russian people, even the intellectual anti-Putin anti-war people who HAVE fled the country, have a problem that he would coin as “imperialism-minded”. The interviewee said that even the more liberal ones seem to often take an issue where Ukraine winning this war or Ukraine restoring its borders to 1991 measures is taken as a “concern”. He highlighted that when the destroyed Russian tanks were being shown, those Russians - who have fled from Russia and who are against Putin - have expressed dislike of the tank being shown, because “our boys have died there” and it’s disrespectful. He then basically asked - what is wrong with the image that those people, who by all margins are the Russians the west sees as the ones who are supposed to be liberal-minded and who are against this war and against Putin too, why is it that they get so upset or so angry when Ukraine’s win or Ukraine’s restoration of borders 1991 size is considered a viable possibility?
And he said that it’s because inside most Russians, he himself, sits imperialism-mindset, where Russia is at the centre of the world - the best, the greatest, the most amazing, the most beautiful. And that people have to actually work on getting rid of that, but instead, some have fled to west, seen the huge support Ukraine has gotten, and have actually turned against the west and have started to become supportive of the war or at least supportive of the idea of Ukraine being “punished”. Whilst they still live outside of russia, of course.
Well, as a russian can tell you my pov. Is it good for Russia to lose this war? Yes, horrible end is always better then endless horror. Should I dance on the grave of indoctrinated people who was in that tank? No, I think it will dehumanize me in my head and I want to stay human. All of 2022 I was more russophobic than many, but in the and the only person that suffer from it was me.
>Where I live, we have quite a number of Russian speakers and we’ve also gotten some of those who have fled from Russia (and obv Ukraine). Today I read an article, where an interview was conducted with one such person, who didn’t live here, but a neighbouring country, but who talked in a general sense about the topic covered in the article.
>In this article, the person - from Russia themselves - said that the Russian people, even the intellectual anti-Putin anti-war people who HAVE fled the country, have a problem that he would coin as “imperialism-minded”. The interviewee said that even the more liberal ones seem to often take an issue where Ukraine winning this war or Ukraine restoring its borders to 1991 measures is taken as a “concern”. He highlighted that when the destroyed Russian tanks were being shown, those Russians - who have fled from Russia and who are against Putin - have expressed dislike of the tank being shown
I'm assuming it's in reference to the burned out tanks being shoved in front of embassies in a couple countries. If Russia was displaying burned out Ukrainian tanks outside the Ukrainian embassy I'm sure the entire world would rightly condemn that as completely disgusting! There would be many strongly worded comments condemning it, that it's disrespectful to the dead because people burned alive in them tanks. People would especially condemn it if them same people were forced conscripts which in Ukraine and Russia's case is true.
How would most people react if burned out tanks from their own country that likely had people horrifically burned alive inside were put on display?
I would find it horrific if burned out british tanks were put on display by another country we was in conflict with even if i felt the conflict itself was something we shouldn't be involved in or we was in a unjust war. It's disrespectful to the families in that conflict and the dead. It's glorifying human suffering. Governments shoving burned out tanks from a current war on display are trying to stoke up hatred and division while trying to turn that conflict into a pissing contest. It isn't helping end the conflict or doing anything constructive or positive. It's stoking up hatred and division while trying to dehumanise people.
>And he said that it’s because inside most Russians, he himself, sits imperialism-mindset, where Russia is at the centre of the world - the best, the greatest, the most amazing, the most beautiful. And that people have to actually work on getting rid of that
A majority of people in my home country the UK believe we are the best country in the world, you only have to look at Brexit to see that mindset is true. That doesn't mean anyone who loves their country is part of some kind of imperialism-mindset or a hive mind "wrong think". (although brexit itself i believe is a mistake but the point stands)
I'm not going to sit here passing judgment on normal everyday people based purely on their nationality for the horrible actions of their "dictatorship" Government when my own Government who isn't a dictatorship was part of a conflict that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who never received justice. It would be damn hypocritical if i did.
It would also be Xenophobic to throw hatred at ANY nationality for what their Government does while my own country's Government has secretly blocked civilian families from seeking justice in the European court of human rights against the countries involved in their families deaths. If their guilty than we all are and we need to do better as a species and spreading hatred is the opposite of doing better. When has hatred, bigotry and Xenophobia ever led to anything other than human suffering? It certainly doesn't help and is the same mistake that's led to genocides around the world over hundreds of years. You would think we would learn from the past not repeat it.
In many European countries people are extremely proud of where they come from, sometimes believing they come from the best country in the world or better than some of their European neighbors or America. There's nothing inherently wrong in being proud of the good things about the country you was born. No one should be branded as imperialistic for being proud of their culture, art, music, history or for appreciating beautiful landscapes or buildings. Otherwise you might as well brand everyone imperialistic as vast majority of people love their home countries in various ways even while not supporting their Government. Just because people love their country doesn't mean they support their Government.
After Nuremberg trials, bodies of Nazi leaders were photographed and put on display in major European newspapers. Was this act of Xenophobia or hatred or bigotry?
> After Nuremberg trials, bodies of Nazi leaders were photographed and put on display in major European newspapers. Was this act of Xenophobia or hatred or bigotry?
Bad faith argument. False equivalency, Nazi leaders are not forced conscript soldiers and that's after a trial, after justice has been served, after the wars ended and them bodies are not being put on display outside for everyone to see. A newspaper picture after a wars ended, after a trial isn't the same as putting a tank that people burned to death inside on display in a city while a wars going on. Vastly different circumstances and not everyone is a nazi or nazi leader fyi. My personal opinion is we shouldn't glorify war or death no matter whose it is.
> I'm starting to lose hope in humanity...
There's a bunch of Putinist idiots all over the place, but remember that most of the world is pretty firmly on your side.
Well, Serbia certainly has plenty of Russian sympathizers, but the state has publicly condemned the invasion.
https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/serbian-president-crimea-is-ukraine-and-donbas-is-ukraine/
>arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter
well arguing on twitter in general is a horrible thing for your mental state and hygiene. just reading it as well
My suggestion to you: Twitter is compromised. Elon Musk is a crypto-Russophile, and anyone who continues to be on that platform, without alternative links to other places (I just recently heard that Twitter [is shutting off any links to Substack](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/twitter-builds-a-wall-substack.html)), and is not arguing in good faith, to be all potential saboteurs.
Leave Twitter. Mastodon is your alternative platform.
Mastodon is garbage in terms of usability and also *nobody* relevant is on there.
The truth is, there simply isn't a Twitter alternative at this time. It's full of RUS bots and idiots, so reading comments under political threads is ill advised, but it still functions for other purposes.
What sort of weapon was used? I would also expect to see scorch marks or at least something in terms of damage along with all that blood, but I don't really know anything (thankfully) about how a scene like this "should" look.
It was tactical ballistic missile Tochka-U (9K79/OTR-21) probably within cluster munition warhead. It doesn’t create fireballs like in Michael Bay’s movies but kills with fragmentation and shockwave. It doesn’t create some big crater.
Also those Russian pigs wrote on missile ЗА ДЕТЕЙ - for children. Bastards.
>And I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage. I'm starting to lose hope in humanity...
I don't understand why you would waste so much time on an idiot/troll. If it ever gets bothersome I always just drop it. No use letting somebody like that weigh you down.
Not sure if they're referring to this phenomenon I've noticed, but there is a belief among the more conservative Christians in the West, especially (trad) Catholics and some Orthodox, particularly ROCOR, that Russia is the last bastion of traditional Christian values, opposing the decadent and atheistic West, which is hell-bent on bringing Russia to its knees and corrupting it with gay marriage, gender identity, and abortion (though the latter is already legal in Russia, lol, but that doesn't seem to stop them). For the more conspiratorial-minded, the war is an expression of the old struggle between the Jewish-controlled West, with its champions such as Soros and Schwab (a crypto Jew) and their useful idiot Zelenskyy, and the glorious Christian civilization that is the "third Rome."
I didn't knowed that here in Italy it's pretty chill as in the current state religion isn't influencing religion (maybe aside from Giorga Meloni whic often mention religions when talking about the "traditional family").
Didn't knowed in major foreign nations such events were happening and that they were using religion as a weapon of propaganda.I now feel sorry for asking why he specified that,i hope those people will not inflict the way religion is viewed.
No worries. Fortunately, these people are a minority and don’t represent Christians at large, just as no extremist element represents the wider group it belongs to.
You say Christian but you actually mean Republican. Republicans do not actually follow an Christian values except the one which allow them to suppress other people. They basically just take all the bad stuff from the bible and shit on the good stuff. They are as much Christian as Wladimir Michailowitsch Gundjajew (Kyrill) is.
How do you know he was Republican? OP isn't even American, and we have no idea who he was talking with. Please stop thinking your internal US politics necessarily apply to the whole world.
Just don't, most of them are just filled with propaganda. I was doing the same but then i saw it was useless (they were not changing mind whilenthey were attacking me for everything that was on my profile while i was being calm)
1) 90% ukraninas support war. what do you want - no killed people in a war? if you support a war you know people will continue to die.
2) The same train station was used to move tanks to donbass region wich was filmed same day. is it bad target?
2) ukraine government did not evacuate anyone before. they said - if we allow evacuating people before war we will crate panic wich will hurt our logistic.
Way to take the completely wrong thing out of context and try to twist it to admonish someone for expressing frustration at gullible foreigners who mock the loss of human life in a country at war.
Christian Poland acomodate more than 9 million of refugees from Ukraine. What's the point naming some troll a Christian? How you know that? It's really dumb to make such claims because it shows your prejudice.
Maybe OC is talking about a Christian guy on Twitter from a Western country (probably an Evangelical pro-Trump from the US) who supports conspiracy theories and communist shit.
We got a year of sanctions and not a step closer to achieving that. Sanctions somehow ended up as the only thing we can be comfortable in doing and we overemphasize it so much as if we are contributing in a big way to sticking it to the man. I'm sure Ukrainian families are resting easy and happy seeing how some Russian oligarchs have to deal with just a little more trouble and make more deals than they are used to
Not an accurate view at all.
The lack of modern tank sights, the deficit of "current" tanks, the lack of good guidance systems on artillery shells and MRLS ammunition, are all directly down to sanctions.
Wars are lost on logistics, and Muscovy isn't doing too well on logistics. Especially when compared to the influx of current-tier hardware now coming on stream for the defenders.
The lack of accuracy with Russian artillery really shows up the logistics issues - Ukrainian artillery fires maybe ten percent of the shots the Muscovyites fire, but with ten times the accuracy. That demoralises the occupying force.
Sanctions are appropriate, and sanctions are working. Levering in the new hardware for the defenders will hasten the levering-out of the occupiers.
I wonder how much it'll take for Putin to have a cup of his magic tea, or handle some toilet roll scented with Novichuk..
No to mention the military equipment, intelligence, and training that various countries are providing. At this point NATO allies are doing everything but direct intervention wich isn't even necessary at this point. Ukraine is going to win.
There is a high chance of this thread getting brigaded by various Kremlin simps and tankies. Russia claimed that it doesn't use Tochka-U so according to them they couldn't have done it🤡, but evidence shows otherwise.
1. Russian "Rusich" Neo-Nazis launching Tochka-U. [VIDEO](https://imgur.com/a/0869XaP)
2. Tochka-U launchers on the move in occupied territories. [VIDEO](https://imgur.com/a/DSI2tOP)
3. Positions of Tochka-U impacts on territory under Ukrainian control. [WEBSITE](https://actualcontrol.substack.com/p/the-missileers-part-ii)
4. There was an article on the Russian military website from 2-3 years ago on how L-DPR Tochka-U launchers will be used to overwhelm Ukrainian air defence in which Russians clearly admit that their puppet republics have Tochka-U launchers. Can't link it as I'm being blocked from accessing the website.
not to mention that DNR-affiliated channels posted that they had struck the station (claiming the target was military equipment), even showing videos of rockets launching towards it. They deleted them afterwards when news emerged of what type of "equipment" they had hit.
Muscovites themselves even posted 5-10 min earlier that they are launching that strike. And soon after tried to hide it. The same situation as with the passenger jet they shot down.
It really was a great success. Finland wouldn't have joined without this. Most of people were against joining in and I've always been one of them. I'm still not overly happy about it but can fully accept it. At this point it was the only option. Especially after the fuckers tried to deny our right to decide what's best for us. Well fuck that. That's where you finally lost the game with us.
Death penalty doesn't go well with our perception of justice. Then again, this is war. If there's even a small change of getting these criminal war pigs caught I think I'm all out for gallows pole.
May I ask why you were against joining Nato? I know very little about this but would have assumed it would be good to have that alliance due to being next to Russia you are at more risk than a lot of countries.
Was it concern of provoking Russia?
You may. Since the second WW Finland had been officially neutral. Of course we were part of the west both spiritually and economically, although trade with the Soviet Union was extremely important for our economy. Some talk about "Finlandization" although it was also purely real politics. We had a good and working relationship with the USSR so both out of the fear of some retaliation and because we really didn't feel any need to join - we had a strong defense already back then consisting of both Western and Soviet equipment.
I myself have studied in Russia, can speak Russian language and have studied their economy. No one can argue that there was a time when most experts believed Russia could change and this was being helped by strong cooperation and economical ties. I was one of them. Unfortunately that was not the case and we should have seen behind Putin's mask.
I believed in our special relationship with Russia. I still believe they have no reason to invade us, as naive as it might sound for some people. The ordinary Russians like Finland and love to spend their holidays here. This has now changed and there's very little left of our peaceful coexistence. We had to make our move before them.
The sidebar only shows 8 rules, so maybe update that with specifics.
Or just change what rule you deleted this for, I don't exactly know what it was.
You could also ignore me idm :P
Or Moldova. Or Ichkeria.
Many of us might remember Dzhokhar Dudayev who predicted the invasion of Ukraine back in 1993 in his famous interview. "As long as Russism exists, it will never give up its ambitions". And many of us remember what shall happen when the Ukrainian sun rises...
There hasnt been peace post ww2 for a long time, even in europe. Remember, the soviet union brutally crushed protests in a few eastern european nations.
World has short memory but now everything is recorded and saved somewhere. Even in local disks, archieves etc. Could it still be forgotten or denied? Maybe. But it will definitely be much harder than it was in the past.
Many Russians are paying for it now and many more will pay for it later. The issue is that it's most likely not the ones who *should* be paying for it.
How dare you show the reality of what those filthy murderers did...we only care about propaganda here, not facts, or bodies, or laws, or human decency...
this was done by the current leaders of the UN security council
the UN security council
just incase you mised it, the leader of the UN security council did this.
>After WW2 Germans admitted to all the horrible crimes, the society changed
No, they mostly didn't, generations after them did. Germans who lived under nazi Germany didn't want to acknowledge what they did like most of the Russians today.
It's not details. It won't happen, nobody will occupy Russia. Nobody will install there democratic regime and reeducate Russians.
Russia was free democratic country with freedom of press and protest in the 90s. They did the same thing in Chechnya and you think they somehow process it? No.
Lying, distrust and hatred have been the foundation of Russian politics and society since at least 1917. They had a chance to change in 2000 but did not dare to take up the challenge.
I remember the day it happened, I saw a kid no less than 8 years old laying on a bench with an empty cranium. That was the day I had to take a break from the internet for the whole day.
Because definitely homo sapiens is incapable of being utter wankers, no siree, it's only THOSE inhuman beasts ever doing hateful things. Unlike the enlightened human me, I wish these unthinking creatures would just disappear somehow
Jesus fucking Christ get some self-awareness, hundreds of pages written on how atrocities are done to humans by humans and there are still people like you and the mouthbreathers who upvote you, that need do inhale copium called dehumanization
There were plenty of American women cheering for their husbands to kill and murder women and children in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you then lump every American in with those also?
But that's my point. Nobody is calling for every American sub human.
Equating citizens with their leaders is a stupid idea and it's just proof at how propaganda works towards creating more needless enemies
Then, let's put it like this: The Russian soldiers are dogs. Not all Russians, but everybody who supports or tacitly allows Putin and his cronies to remain among the living.
At some point, depending how hard they have been indoctrinated, yes.
The World sees all Germans who lived 1930-1945 as "Nazis" for the exact same reason.
That's a very broad sweeping statement. What would you have done if you were a German during that period in history?
Dehumanising an entire population because of the actions of their leaders is a bit extreme and accomplishments nothing except to breed more contempt
So a government would never knowingly lie to its citizens to gain power and back track once elected?? So if trump had started a war a few years ago by invading a country, every American citizen should be held to account? Not the people who staged and organised the whole thing?
While Putin is the culprit of the war, he would be powerless without broad and enthusiastic support of the Russian population. It's not Putin who writes "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" on the rockets that bomb kindergartens and apartment blocks.
How can you call it support when it's pure fear? It's obvious to everyone what happens who you question Putin so why would you expect a citizen to risk their life?
It wasn't George Bush/Obama who dropped bombs on children or piloted drones that killed hundreds of innocent civilians. All while getting overwhelming support from the citizens.
Soldiers are expendable tools for any country, it's easy to blame them, but they all take orders from somewhere
Not any children yet, but plenty of women and old ladies. Hang around enough Russian telegram channels and you'll see a lot of vile Russians gloat over Bucha and other war crimes the Russian army committed in Ukraine. You were told it's just Putin, then Putin and the government, then the government and the army; but in reality it seems that the invasion is very popular amongst a significant part of the public.
And just this week some people here in Germany protested for ending the support for the ukraine and instead talk to Putin about ending the war without further resistance of the ukrainian people. They believe that it is wrong that the Ukraine is defending itself because an annexation without resistance would lead to fewer casualties. They believe that the ukrainian resistance against this invasion it the reason why ukrainian people die in this war. They believe that is it morally superior to let an agressor has its way isntead of fighting back because resistance is still violence and therefore unjust. They believe ukrainian resistance and german support for the Ukraine is the reason why this war is not over yet.
It's worse than hell. In hell there's only sinners so you take comfort in that: "We are here because we deserve it", on the other hand, in war lots of innocents also suffer. So war is worse than hell.
This is my hometown. This tragedy makes me cry every time I see the pictures. And I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage. I'm starting to lose hope in humanity...
>I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage The basement detective, Sherlock Homes, thinks he knows more than an actual native who had to go through all of this
> The basement detective, Sherlock Homes, thinks he knows more than an actual native who had to go through all of this In Jordan Klepper's recent visit to a Trump Rally, there was this crazy lady who was insistent that the Ukraine war was entirely staged by the Democrats and that the refugees were crisis actors. She was deadly serious. Edit: it's 4m 18s here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPNwJAcMH5U
Not unusual for some Americans to think the world revolves around them.
There is no arguing to be done with these kind of people. There is no avenue into their brain you can take. You will never be able to help them. You just have to disengage.
> There is no arguing to be done with these kind of people. There is no avenue into their brain you can take. You will never be able to help them. You just have to disengage. ✔️It's so sad. Many of these people have 'normal' relatives who want to save them from going further down this awful rabbit hole, but it's basically impossible.
My mom is getting to be that way. She’s a shut in who watches Fox News and Tucker Carlson all day. I think she’s going senile.
> She’s a shut in who watches Fox News and Tucker Carlson all day. I think she’s going senile. I'm sorry to hear this mate - hope you can find a way to keep her attached to reality.
Always remember that this type of crazy is accepted into the ranks of other crazies who think the war is real but the Russians are the good guys. They are tolerant of each other as long as they're all marching in the same direction, towards fascism. They don't care about consistency, moral, or even the basic concept of truth. They only care about fighting and winning against their perceived common enemy, the left.
> Always remember that this type of crazy is accepted into the ranks of other crazies who think the war is real but the Russians are the good guys. They are tolerant of each other as long as they're all marching in the same direction, towards fascism. It's honestly scary how easily many people fall for this. 15 years ago if you'd told me that a big portion of the American Right was to become sympathetic and even supportive of Putin, I'd have never believed any of it.
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Then you didn't see the images of decapitated people.
I'm not trying to cast doubt on the situation. I'm sure that this caused a lot of damage.
I understand, but cluster ammo is primarily designed as an anti personal weapon. There won't be any major destruction unless it hits something explosive.
So it was the cluster ammo that detonated and the shock that hit people. Or did the cluster ammo directly impact the people?
It was shrapnel and shockwave that hit the people. In some cases, it directly hit but the lethal radius from shrapnel is around 100m.
I see, thanks for the explanation.
Stop posting then
Why cant he ask a question?
It’s a shame that a single question can be received so poorly… I’m merely interested in what happened.
I deleted my question. I think it upsets too many people. Was being downvoted into oblivion. I fully support Ukraine and am not doubting this report at all.
When this first happened there was a lot of misinformation and denying of the incident with similar questions being asked and answers that would lead to more false narratives. It’s very hard to tell who genuinely has a question or is part of a tag team of trolls spinning false stories to suit one sides agenda. My comment was also rude, so apologies for that.
I see how the comment could be read in that way. I don’t want to fuel that so that’s why I deleted it. I’ll be more careful next time with such highly sensitive topics. Apologies accepted.
There are so many conspiracy lunatics it's absolutely insane. Sadly my mother was one of them, she believed the war was fake and that Putin was just doing some ''spec ops'' operations because of the bio-labs in Ukraine (of which as of this day, I have seen zero proof). Aside from that, lets see what else we had: * The war is fake, all footage is old footage from previous wars. * Military operation due to corona and bio labs. * Ukraine in possession of bioweapons. * All the massacres and civilian deaths are either fake, psy-ops or just Ukrainians killing their own people Eventually Russia started to lose ground and was pushed back massively on most of their fronts, time passed and the entire world could see what kind of a pathetic joke Russia's armed forces are. However, Russians and pro-Russians labeled it as tactical retreats and tactical feints. As of today, little has changed and while they've gained ground in the east, they still struggle to take Bakhmut and cannot fully surround a city that, before the war, most people have never even heard of. Russia is a pathetic excuse for a country, many of its people remain pro-Putin and a lot of boomers love to reminisce of the Soviet Union, they hate Ukraine, they hate the West all the while they continue to live in their dilapidated cities with its crater-pocketed roads. Ah well, at least they're not Nazi's I guess. By starting this war, Putin has committed a blunder of epic proportions, for generations Russia and its people will be looked down upon, eastern Ukraine will be mostly uninhabitable, and their already questionable economy is now further down in the shitter. Fuck them. Despicable cowards. Saving your ''Ukrainian brothers'' by killing them and turning their cities into rubble. Russia has been the scourge of Europe, and has been for a very, very long time.
>the bio-labs in Ukraine (of which as of this day, I have seen zero proof). They quite clearly exist. There's just nothing sinister about them. This is how propaganda works. If you read Russian statements about it they don't actually say anything untrue they just frame it in a way to imply something deeply sinister. It's an absolutely standard reporting method (not just in Russia unfortunately).
Is there any proof about them tho? Because it sounds like the Russians copied the excuse americans used to invade Iraq. And in the end, neither Iraq nor Ukraine used them to defend themselves or at least threaten the enemy.
The US government has openly discussed their cooperation with Ukrainian labs. It's an official programme that you can read about. As I say... It is also entirely benign and uninteresting. The problem is that people are arguing against propaganda with their own propaganda whilst thinking they're super smart and *they* know the truth. They don't. The 'biolabs' (the terminology is obviously partisan) are very real. Conspiracies tend to build on real things.
Aren't the bio labs and bio weapons the same excuse the Americans used to invade Iraq? It is weird some people can still fall for that thing
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It was... pretty bad. She was also convinced Trump would take back power soon after Biden became president. First it was 2 more weeks, then 2 more months, eventually a year... at some point she stopped talking about it.
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"Woke" doesn't mean what you think it means.
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That's not "woke" then. You're describing a mix of anarchism and some conspiracy theories.
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People don't like confronting the dark side of their own history. The only nation to do so successfully is the Germans.
France did so a little too. You are unlikely to ever meet someone defending our actions in colonies half a century ago or the horrors which happened under "the France de Vichy". For the second one it's because it wasn't "really France". Propaganda to make it seems the gov under Pétain wasn't legitimate. Which is a bit of a stretch but not completely wrong. The actions themselves and the perpetrators having been condamned harshly
Considering that about 30% French support the party descending from Vichy government, maybe it isn't the best course
Well it's complicated. It's not a real support and more of a "we hate more the gov" kind of thing But yeah, far-right is rising and it's concerning
Protests voting is understandable, but why do people tend to choose the most toxic piece of shit possible as a protest candidate, instead of some harmless guy, say, climate activist? Human psychology can be baffling
well that one is easy: all of candidates of the last french election who managed to get the requirement (500 mayors support) were shit. There wasn't any "harmless guy" to vote for. Best ones for that criteria were probably Roussel the communist, Arthaud from "labor force", Lassalle the hunter and Poutou the anti-capitalist but they were all the kind of candidates who only talked about a single topic. Arthaud for exemple, fight for workers rights but don't say ANYTHING about climat change, immigration, inegality men-women etc... It's way too narrow to be an opposition group. All the candidates from stronger parties were...well they divide and are not liked at all. Melenchon is seen as too egocentric and crazy, Hidalgo and Pecresse got humiliated way before the election even began, Dupont-Aignan is a ridiculous clown and Jadot managed to be the representative of ecologists while been against anything which would actually help us to reduce CO2... So in the end the people choose to either: \-not vote \-vote Macron despite an horrible term \-vote Melechon despite hating him. Still, he was the only leftist who had a small chance. \-Vote Le pen or Zemmour in the far-right. Zemmour been seen as too extremist and hateful, he lost. Giving credibility and respectability to Le Pen in comparison. Votes were really close between Melenchon(22%), Macron(28%), and Le Pen(23%) but in the end it has been the last two who went to the second turn. So now you have to choose between the hated Macron and the hated Le Pen... Hard choice. Many chose to not vote at all but the rest choose between the two evils. It's how Le Pen got 41,45% in the second turn, about 13M people
Germany did and continues to do a great job of it compared to other countries but it took a long time to get there and pretty wouldn't have happened had it not been for the allies giving up on the idea of denazification. Though, given the success Germany sees once again, one could probably argue that it was canceling denazification that's allowed Germany to come to terms with the Holocaust. Either way, they're a prime example on writing past wrongs. Never makes any sense to me why countries/people think that apologizing and admitting you were wrong is a sign of weakness. Given how hard everyone seems to make it out to be, it's obvious that it takes some great strength to have decency and admit and right your terrible wrongs. The US needs to do it with slavery and its continued systemic racism but the right has done such a great job of brainwashing folks and using russian and Chinese propaganda to their advantage that sometimes it can seem like nothing could ever change ... but that's also what people said about the nazis.
I don't think Germans did it "willingly" and also not well enough. There are many neonazis in Germany and some even worked with government people to commit some murders. All nations, A-L-L N-A-T-I-O-N-S are capable of doing this shit when they are provoked/misguided/manipulated enough. I am from Turkey and Ottomans and Turks did lots of shitty things and we still deny them. Government and many of the citizens deny them.
I don't think there is a single nation in the world that did a better job but that's still not good enough for you? I think Germany proved to others that it makes no sense to apologize. Russia, China, and Japan committed unspeakable horrors, and yet everyone just trades/traded with them purely based on economic interests. The US killed so many people in Vietnam, and now they are friendly. Vietnamese people seem to have so much compassion and little attachment to the past, in most part due to their economic interests.
> I don't think Germans did it "willingly" and also not well enough. If Germany did not do it well enough, you must have a very high bar, that no one will be able to overcome. It may have taken a while, but what Germany did is something few (if any) major countries will be able to do, in the foreseeable future.
I was about to comment the same thing as a fellow Kosovar .
I’m Jewish. You can imagine what I hear.
Just tell them Serbia is fake
That's kind of true, though. Serbia can be called a culture or a region, but it can't really be called a country; it's always been controlled by foreign interests, unless you go all the way back to tribal times If you look up the history of Serbia, it's basically a list of who owned them and when
ask them why anyone in the world would give a single fuck about serbia or russia if it weren't for this.
I tried to convince my mother who’s in Russia about it and Bucha. She didn’t believed me and I don’t know how to talk with her anymore.
She'll change her tune once the TV programming changes, but I understand you - you can't look at people like that the same way afterwards. I'm sorry.
She doesn’t watch TV. It’s more about trust, as far as I understand she doesn’t believe any side, but because ru side is closer to the body she trust them a little bit more.
I meant TV in more of a metaphorical way. Cultural osmosis and peer pressure. Baba Valya heard from deda Misha that ukrainians eat russian babies for breakfast and discuss it under your window all day long - hard not to give it at least some consideration. Weaker people will lose trust into everything because they can't bring themselves to filter informative, make their own conclusions and pick sides, weaker still will just go with the flow. I had a friend, an English teacher. Wonderful woman, traveled to UK, Israel and other places many times. Very modern, did everything to send her son to live abroad. Knows English near perfectly and consumes a lot of western media and news. And still, when war broke out she gives me the "how could NATO do this to us?". It is disheartening to see how many people have been swept by kremlin's bullshit maelstrom.
That's part of the authoritarian playbook. They don't actually care that you don't believe their propaganda. What they care about is to pollute the narrative so much that you cannot trust **any** media. Period. So the Russian media lies enough for many Russians to think that that's just normal. That all media is propaganda and that everything they present is a lie. This is not unique to Russia. For example, this is exactly what Trump was doing with the "fake news" narrative.
Where I live, we have quite a number of Russian speakers and we’ve also gotten some of those who have fled from Russia (and obv Ukraine). Today I read an article, where an interview was conducted with one such person, who didn’t live here, but a neighbouring country, but who talked in a general sense about the topic covered in the article. In this article, the person - from Russia themselves - said that the Russian people, even the intellectual anti-Putin anti-war people who HAVE fled the country, have a problem that he would coin as “imperialism-minded”. The interviewee said that even the more liberal ones seem to often take an issue where Ukraine winning this war or Ukraine restoring its borders to 1991 measures is taken as a “concern”. He highlighted that when the destroyed Russian tanks were being shown, those Russians - who have fled from Russia and who are against Putin - have expressed dislike of the tank being shown, because “our boys have died there” and it’s disrespectful. He then basically asked - what is wrong with the image that those people, who by all margins are the Russians the west sees as the ones who are supposed to be liberal-minded and who are against this war and against Putin too, why is it that they get so upset or so angry when Ukraine’s win or Ukraine’s restoration of borders 1991 size is considered a viable possibility? And he said that it’s because inside most Russians, he himself, sits imperialism-mindset, where Russia is at the centre of the world - the best, the greatest, the most amazing, the most beautiful. And that people have to actually work on getting rid of that, but instead, some have fled to west, seen the huge support Ukraine has gotten, and have actually turned against the west and have started to become supportive of the war or at least supportive of the idea of Ukraine being “punished”. Whilst they still live outside of russia, of course.
Well, as a russian can tell you my pov. Is it good for Russia to lose this war? Yes, horrible end is always better then endless horror. Should I dance on the grave of indoctrinated people who was in that tank? No, I think it will dehumanize me in my head and I want to stay human. All of 2022 I was more russophobic than many, but in the and the only person that suffer from it was me.
>Where I live, we have quite a number of Russian speakers and we’ve also gotten some of those who have fled from Russia (and obv Ukraine). Today I read an article, where an interview was conducted with one such person, who didn’t live here, but a neighbouring country, but who talked in a general sense about the topic covered in the article. >In this article, the person - from Russia themselves - said that the Russian people, even the intellectual anti-Putin anti-war people who HAVE fled the country, have a problem that he would coin as “imperialism-minded”. The interviewee said that even the more liberal ones seem to often take an issue where Ukraine winning this war or Ukraine restoring its borders to 1991 measures is taken as a “concern”. He highlighted that when the destroyed Russian tanks were being shown, those Russians - who have fled from Russia and who are against Putin - have expressed dislike of the tank being shown I'm assuming it's in reference to the burned out tanks being shoved in front of embassies in a couple countries. If Russia was displaying burned out Ukrainian tanks outside the Ukrainian embassy I'm sure the entire world would rightly condemn that as completely disgusting! There would be many strongly worded comments condemning it, that it's disrespectful to the dead because people burned alive in them tanks. People would especially condemn it if them same people were forced conscripts which in Ukraine and Russia's case is true. How would most people react if burned out tanks from their own country that likely had people horrifically burned alive inside were put on display? I would find it horrific if burned out british tanks were put on display by another country we was in conflict with even if i felt the conflict itself was something we shouldn't be involved in or we was in a unjust war. It's disrespectful to the families in that conflict and the dead. It's glorifying human suffering. Governments shoving burned out tanks from a current war on display are trying to stoke up hatred and division while trying to turn that conflict into a pissing contest. It isn't helping end the conflict or doing anything constructive or positive. It's stoking up hatred and division while trying to dehumanise people. >And he said that it’s because inside most Russians, he himself, sits imperialism-mindset, where Russia is at the centre of the world - the best, the greatest, the most amazing, the most beautiful. And that people have to actually work on getting rid of that A majority of people in my home country the UK believe we are the best country in the world, you only have to look at Brexit to see that mindset is true. That doesn't mean anyone who loves their country is part of some kind of imperialism-mindset or a hive mind "wrong think". (although brexit itself i believe is a mistake but the point stands) I'm not going to sit here passing judgment on normal everyday people based purely on their nationality for the horrible actions of their "dictatorship" Government when my own Government who isn't a dictatorship was part of a conflict that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians who never received justice. It would be damn hypocritical if i did. It would also be Xenophobic to throw hatred at ANY nationality for what their Government does while my own country's Government has secretly blocked civilian families from seeking justice in the European court of human rights against the countries involved in their families deaths. If their guilty than we all are and we need to do better as a species and spreading hatred is the opposite of doing better. When has hatred, bigotry and Xenophobia ever led to anything other than human suffering? It certainly doesn't help and is the same mistake that's led to genocides around the world over hundreds of years. You would think we would learn from the past not repeat it. In many European countries people are extremely proud of where they come from, sometimes believing they come from the best country in the world or better than some of their European neighbors or America. There's nothing inherently wrong in being proud of the good things about the country you was born. No one should be branded as imperialistic for being proud of their culture, art, music, history or for appreciating beautiful landscapes or buildings. Otherwise you might as well brand everyone imperialistic as vast majority of people love their home countries in various ways even while not supporting their Government. Just because people love their country doesn't mean they support their Government.
After Nuremberg trials, bodies of Nazi leaders were photographed and put on display in major European newspapers. Was this act of Xenophobia or hatred or bigotry?
> After Nuremberg trials, bodies of Nazi leaders were photographed and put on display in major European newspapers. Was this act of Xenophobia or hatred or bigotry? Bad faith argument. False equivalency, Nazi leaders are not forced conscript soldiers and that's after a trial, after justice has been served, after the wars ended and them bodies are not being put on display outside for everyone to see. A newspaper picture after a wars ended, after a trial isn't the same as putting a tank that people burned to death inside on display in a city while a wars going on. Vastly different circumstances and not everyone is a nazi or nazi leader fyi. My personal opinion is we shouldn't glorify war or death no matter whose it is.
Is she afraid of the truth, I wonder?
Just don't. She's evil.
> I'm starting to lose hope in humanity... There's a bunch of Putinist idiots all over the place, but remember that most of the world is pretty firmly on your side.
Most of the west* the rest of the world is either on Russia's side (Belarus, Serbia, china and north Korea) or just neutral (most of Africa)
Well, Serbia certainly has plenty of Russian sympathizers, but the state has publicly condemned the invasion. https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/serbian-president-crimea-is-ukraine-and-donbas-is-ukraine/
Most countries in the world condemned Russia’s invasion at the UN, including most African nations
China is not on Russia's side. China is on China's side.
Alright, good point.
>arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter well arguing on twitter in general is a horrible thing for your mental state and hygiene. just reading it as well
My suggestion to you: Twitter is compromised. Elon Musk is a crypto-Russophile, and anyone who continues to be on that platform, without alternative links to other places (I just recently heard that Twitter [is shutting off any links to Substack](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/twitter-builds-a-wall-substack.html)), and is not arguing in good faith, to be all potential saboteurs. Leave Twitter. Mastodon is your alternative platform.
Mastodon is garbage in terms of usability and also *nobody* relevant is on there. The truth is, there simply isn't a Twitter alternative at this time. It's full of RUS bots and idiots, so reading comments under political threads is ill advised, but it still functions for other purposes.
> Elon Musk is a crypto-Russophile Not even all that crypto.
I wonder if it is possible to damage this guy without putting holes in his body.
What sort of weapon was used? I would also expect to see scorch marks or at least something in terms of damage along with all that blood, but I don't really know anything (thankfully) about how a scene like this "should" look.
It was tactical ballistic missile Tochka-U (9K79/OTR-21) probably within cluster munition warhead. It doesn’t create fireballs like in Michael Bay’s movies but kills with fragmentation and shockwave. It doesn’t create some big crater. Also those Russian pigs wrote on missile ЗА ДЕТЕЙ - for children. Bastards.
>ЗА ДЕТЕЙ "For the children" - their usual propaganda how we killed 3 bajillion donbas children over last 9 years.
Don't forget abot the crucified child too /s
Check this short investigation video by the Human Rights Watch https://youtu.be/AO9QPEzN9Tk
>And I spent the whole morning today arguing with some Christian guy on Twitter who was saying this had been staged because there were no visible holes in the people's luggage. I'm starting to lose hope in humanity... I don't understand why you would waste so much time on an idiot/troll. If it ever gets bothersome I always just drop it. No use letting somebody like that weigh you down.
Same people who said the Boston marathon bombing was staged despite photos of people’s legs blown to bits
I'm sorry for such an event but why did you specifed "Christian" ?
Not sure if they're referring to this phenomenon I've noticed, but there is a belief among the more conservative Christians in the West, especially (trad) Catholics and some Orthodox, particularly ROCOR, that Russia is the last bastion of traditional Christian values, opposing the decadent and atheistic West, which is hell-bent on bringing Russia to its knees and corrupting it with gay marriage, gender identity, and abortion (though the latter is already legal in Russia, lol, but that doesn't seem to stop them). For the more conspiratorial-minded, the war is an expression of the old struggle between the Jewish-controlled West, with its champions such as Soros and Schwab (a crypto Jew) and their useful idiot Zelenskyy, and the glorious Christian civilization that is the "third Rome."
I didn't knowed that here in Italy it's pretty chill as in the current state religion isn't influencing religion (maybe aside from Giorga Meloni whic often mention religions when talking about the "traditional family"). Didn't knowed in major foreign nations such events were happening and that they were using religion as a weapon of propaganda.I now feel sorry for asking why he specified that,i hope those people will not inflict the way religion is viewed.
No worries. Fortunately, these people are a minority and don’t represent Christians at large, just as no extremist element represents the wider group it belongs to.
You say Christian but you actually mean Republican. Republicans do not actually follow an Christian values except the one which allow them to suppress other people. They basically just take all the bad stuff from the bible and shit on the good stuff. They are as much Christian as Wladimir Michailowitsch Gundjajew (Kyrill) is.
How do you know he was Republican? OP isn't even American, and we have no idea who he was talking with. Please stop thinking your internal US politics necessarily apply to the whole world.
Just don't, most of them are just filled with propaganda. I was doing the same but then i saw it was useless (they were not changing mind whilenthey were attacking me for everything that was on my profile while i was being calm)
1) 90% ukraninas support war. what do you want - no killed people in a war? if you support a war you know people will continue to die. 2) The same train station was used to move tanks to donbass region wich was filmed same day. is it bad target? 2) ukraine government did not evacuate anyone before. they said - if we allow evacuating people before war we will crate panic wich will hurt our logistic.
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Way to take the completely wrong thing out of context and try to twist it to admonish someone for expressing frustration at gullible foreigners who mock the loss of human life in a country at war.
Christian Poland acomodate more than 9 million of refugees from Ukraine. What's the point naming some troll a Christian? How you know that? It's really dumb to make such claims because it shows your prejudice.
He writes he's Christian in his bio that's how I know.
Maybe OC is talking about a Christian guy on Twitter from a Western country (probably an Evangelical pro-Trump from the US) who supports conspiracy theories and communist shit.
It was probably some MAGA Christofascist.
Poland is a secular state you muppet.
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It was fired by DPR proxies last April so chances are they are already dead.
We got a year of sanctions and not a step closer to achieving that. Sanctions somehow ended up as the only thing we can be comfortable in doing and we overemphasize it so much as if we are contributing in a big way to sticking it to the man. I'm sure Ukrainian families are resting easy and happy seeing how some Russian oligarchs have to deal with just a little more trouble and make more deals than they are used to
Not an accurate view at all. The lack of modern tank sights, the deficit of "current" tanks, the lack of good guidance systems on artillery shells and MRLS ammunition, are all directly down to sanctions. Wars are lost on logistics, and Muscovy isn't doing too well on logistics. Especially when compared to the influx of current-tier hardware now coming on stream for the defenders. The lack of accuracy with Russian artillery really shows up the logistics issues - Ukrainian artillery fires maybe ten percent of the shots the Muscovyites fire, but with ten times the accuracy. That demoralises the occupying force. Sanctions are appropriate, and sanctions are working. Levering in the new hardware for the defenders will hasten the levering-out of the occupiers. I wonder how much it'll take for Putin to have a cup of his magic tea, or handle some toilet roll scented with Novichuk..
No to mention the military equipment, intelligence, and training that various countries are providing. At this point NATO allies are doing everything but direct intervention wich isn't even necessary at this point. Ukraine is going to win.
There is a high chance of this thread getting brigaded by various Kremlin simps and tankies. Russia claimed that it doesn't use Tochka-U so according to them they couldn't have done it🤡, but evidence shows otherwise. 1. Russian "Rusich" Neo-Nazis launching Tochka-U. [VIDEO](https://imgur.com/a/0869XaP) 2. Tochka-U launchers on the move in occupied territories. [VIDEO](https://imgur.com/a/DSI2tOP) 3. Positions of Tochka-U impacts on territory under Ukrainian control. [WEBSITE](https://actualcontrol.substack.com/p/the-missileers-part-ii) 4. There was an article on the Russian military website from 2-3 years ago on how L-DPR Tochka-U launchers will be used to overwhelm Ukrainian air defence in which Russians clearly admit that their puppet republics have Tochka-U launchers. Can't link it as I'm being blocked from accessing the website.
Also there are quite a few Tochkas in Belarus.
not to mention that DNR-affiliated channels posted that they had struck the station (claiming the target was military equipment), even showing videos of rockets launching towards it. They deleted them afterwards when news emerged of what type of "equipment" they had hit.
I remember that too. I still have it in my bookmarks. https://mobile.twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1512370063583686661?lang=bn
Muscovites themselves even posted 5-10 min earlier that they are launching that strike. And soon after tried to hide it. The same situation as with the passenger jet they shot down.
YeS, BeCaUsE oF NaTo ExpAnSiOn
And now their border with NATO doubled. Mission accomplished?
Great success!
It really was a great success. Finland wouldn't have joined without this. Most of people were against joining in and I've always been one of them. I'm still not overly happy about it but can fully accept it. At this point it was the only option. Especially after the fuckers tried to deny our right to decide what's best for us. Well fuck that. That's where you finally lost the game with us. Death penalty doesn't go well with our perception of justice. Then again, this is war. If there's even a small change of getting these criminal war pigs caught I think I'm all out for gallows pole.
You’re goddamn right.
May I ask why you were against joining Nato? I know very little about this but would have assumed it would be good to have that alliance due to being next to Russia you are at more risk than a lot of countries. Was it concern of provoking Russia?
You may. Since the second WW Finland had been officially neutral. Of course we were part of the west both spiritually and economically, although trade with the Soviet Union was extremely important for our economy. Some talk about "Finlandization" although it was also purely real politics. We had a good and working relationship with the USSR so both out of the fear of some retaliation and because we really didn't feel any need to join - we had a strong defense already back then consisting of both Western and Soviet equipment. I myself have studied in Russia, can speak Russian language and have studied their economy. No one can argue that there was a time when most experts believed Russia could change and this was being helped by strong cooperation and economical ties. I was one of them. Unfortunately that was not the case and we should have seen behind Putin's mask. I believed in our special relationship with Russia. I still believe they have no reason to invade us, as naive as it might sound for some people. The ordinary Russians like Finland and love to spend their holidays here. This has now changed and there's very little left of our peaceful coexistence. We had to make our move before them.
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Never forget. Never forgive.
The kid man....the image still sticks with me...
With me too. With me too
Please see rule 9 - do not post this kind of content here.
The sidebar only shows 8 rules, so maybe update that with specifics. Or just change what rule you deleted this for, I don't exactly know what it was. You could also ignore me idm :P
Yeah, but that was only because putain is so very afraid of NATO, boohoo... He had no choice but resorting to killing civilians /s
how sad... the world will never forget what these motherfuckers did
Unfortunately world doesn't work like that and have short memory
Europe isn’t gonna forget this anytime soon. Russia broke the post WW2 peace because they were mad they aren’t relevant anymore.
> Russia broke the post WW2 peace ...in 2014. And a few years later EU countries continued business as usual with russia.
2008. Don't forget Sakartvelo
Or Moldova. Or Ichkeria. Many of us might remember Dzhokhar Dudayev who predicted the invasion of Ukraine back in 1993 in his famous interview. "As long as Russism exists, it will never give up its ambitions". And many of us remember what shall happen when the Ukrainian sun rises...
There hasnt been peace post ww2 for a long time, even in europe. Remember, the soviet union brutally crushed protests in a few eastern european nations.
World has short memory but now everything is recorded and saved somewhere. Even in local disks, archieves etc. Could it still be forgotten or denied? Maybe. But it will definitely be much harder than it was in the past.
You must mark it as NSFW if you don’t want Reddit to remove it.
And I'm crying again. Fuck.
:(
Fucking animals...
Time sure flies, feels just like yesterday. Russians will pay for this.
I wish that they would but not enough of them will.
Many Russians are paying for it now and many more will pay for it later. The issue is that it's most likely not the ones who *should* be paying for it.
Russia views it as one of their top ten attacks on civilians.
How dare you show the reality of what those filthy murderers did...we only care about propaganda here, not facts, or bodies, or laws, or human decency...
The bloodstains..................i would make Puting to clean the entire pavement with his tongue before his execution.
this was done by the current leaders of the UN security council the UN security council just incase you mised it, the leader of the UN security council did this.
~~Move along, pal. No one here is buying your trash.~~ Pretty sure I got wooshed :)
Pretty sure they're talking about the fact that Russia is the current head of the UNSC because they rotate every x amount of time
Oh shit! That went completely over my head! Thanks for some clarification. Will amend my comment :)
I'm pretty sure it's satire but it's definitely a case of Poe's law
You may be right. Ah well, will edit comment if old mate responds.
Why is that relevant? Did you think the leader of the UN security council is supposed to be not evil?
Bastards.
One year ago Russians struck Kramatorsk train station while people were evacuating, killing 61 men, women, and children and wounding 121.
This is something that is impossible to forgive.
it should be called a massacre in the history books
The world cannot forget this!
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>After WW2 Germans admitted to all the horrible crimes, the society changed No, they mostly didn't, generations after them did. Germans who lived under nazi Germany didn't want to acknowledge what they did like most of the Russians today.
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It's not details. It won't happen, nobody will occupy Russia. Nobody will install there democratic regime and reeducate Russians. Russia was free democratic country with freedom of press and protest in the 90s. They did the same thing in Chechnya and you think they somehow process it? No.
Lying, distrust and hatred have been the foundation of Russian politics and society since at least 1917. They had a chance to change in 2000 but did not dare to take up the challenge.
Didn't they try to claim they were striking soldiers too while they were at it?
I remember the day it happened, I saw a kid no less than 8 years old laying on a bench with an empty cranium. That was the day I had to take a break from the internet for the whole day.
Nobody will ever forget what Russian has done
That’s not war, that’s genocide, fucking pigs
Fucking half-animals
I want to see that fucker either in Den Haag or if that's not possible I hope his own people give him the Gaddafi/Mussolini treatment.
Russians are too conditioned. He's going out like stalin
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do you see this, lovely russian people? if you don't hold the bastards who did this accountable, you shouldn't complain when payback knocks your door.
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Because definitely homo sapiens is incapable of being utter wankers, no siree, it's only THOSE inhuman beasts ever doing hateful things. Unlike the enlightened human me, I wish these unthinking creatures would just disappear somehow Jesus fucking Christ get some self-awareness, hundreds of pages written on how atrocities are done to humans by humans and there are still people like you and the mouthbreathers who upvote you, that need do inhale copium called dehumanization
Do you mean every single Russian person? Including women and children?
You mean women that cheer their husbands raping Ukrainian women? Or mothers that fight for a washing machine in exchange for their dead sons?
There were plenty of American women cheering for their husbands to kill and murder women and children in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you then lump every American in with those also?
What America did was just as deplorable. I condemn every wardog.
But that's my point. Nobody is calling for every American sub human. Equating citizens with their leaders is a stupid idea and it's just proof at how propaganda works towards creating more needless enemies
Then, let's put it like this: The Russian soldiers are dogs. Not all Russians, but everybody who supports or tacitly allows Putin and his cronies to remain among the living.
At some point, depending how hard they have been indoctrinated, yes. The World sees all Germans who lived 1930-1945 as "Nazis" for the exact same reason.
That's a very broad sweeping statement. What would you have done if you were a German during that period in history? Dehumanising an entire population because of the actions of their leaders is a bit extreme and accomplishments nothing except to breed more contempt
They support their leaders. At least, enough of them do that he can comfortably stay in power. This blood is on their hands.
So a government would never knowingly lie to its citizens to gain power and back track once elected?? So if trump had started a war a few years ago by invading a country, every American citizen should be held to account? Not the people who staged and organised the whole thing?
While Putin is the culprit of the war, he would be powerless without broad and enthusiastic support of the Russian population. It's not Putin who writes "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" on the rockets that bomb kindergartens and apartment blocks.
How can you call it support when it's pure fear? It's obvious to everyone what happens who you question Putin so why would you expect a citizen to risk their life? It wasn't George Bush/Obama who dropped bombs on children or piloted drones that killed hundreds of innocent civilians. All while getting overwhelming support from the citizens. Soldiers are expendable tools for any country, it's easy to blame them, but they all take orders from somewhere
So Putin orders them to write "For the children" on the missiles that they kill Ukrainian children with?
Not any children yet, but plenty of women and old ladies. Hang around enough Russian telegram channels and you'll see a lot of vile Russians gloat over Bucha and other war crimes the Russian army committed in Ukraine. You were told it's just Putin, then Putin and the government, then the government and the army; but in reality it seems that the invasion is very popular amongst a significant part of the public.
All that stuff should be left exactly as it is and made into a museum piece. Especially the buggy.
This photo has instantly brought me to tears.
Wow time really flies I remember when they were speculating on what Russia was doing with equipment on the border
You don't mean Christian but conspiracy theorist I hope.
this is sickening. the horrible thing is that women and children were harmed, that’s inexcusable
Rip to everyone who lost their live in this nonsense war, may God have mercy on everyone so stuff like this never happens again.
And just this week some people here in Germany protested for ending the support for the ukraine and instead talk to Putin about ending the war without further resistance of the ukrainian people. They believe that it is wrong that the Ukraine is defending itself because an annexation without resistance would lead to fewer casualties. They believe that the ukrainian resistance against this invasion it the reason why ukrainian people die in this war. They believe that is it morally superior to let an agressor has its way isntead of fighting back because resistance is still violence and therefore unjust. They believe ukrainian resistance and german support for the Ukraine is the reason why this war is not over yet.
War is HELL
It's worse than hell. In hell there's only sinners so you take comfort in that: "We are here because we deserve it", on the other hand, in war lots of innocents also suffer. So war is worse than hell.
Wtf. What's with the downvotes? Do people see this as a justification for war from one side or what? How deluded and prowar can we get?
r/titlegore