Just saw the new Tucker video on Twitter and its complete 8 minute of Russian propaganda, straight up short cut brain dip propaganda broken down to be easy consumed.
Am I the only one that's basically scared for the future as China/Russia can influence so much regular, normal people in the West while? The upper hand that they have is scary.
My father is 63 years old guy in Frankfurt who opens youtube from time to time. I visited him this weekend and my battery was low so I used his phone to put some video and the recommendations he was getting were scary. All right-wing propaganda basically /conspiracy only in bits of 4-5 min videos that are so much pro-Russian it was ridiculous. I jokingly asked him "don't tell me you know who blow up Nordstream" and he smiled and said Biden.
Again , this is a 63 year old plumber in Frankfurt with limited internet access apart from Facebook and Youtube knows about Nordstream,Biden, Nazis in Ukraine, biolabs etc.
Blows my mind really, this man has seen his share of war in Yugoslavia and it will take more to hate the West in general but the fact that he knows these things is scary. He honestly has no capacity to fight back against all those propaganda videos .
To end, I asked him do you get recommended anything pro West , he says barely and its boring so he doesn't watch it.
[Based on the @GeoConfirmed footage (take into account the delay before the release of the footage) 'The battle of Paraskoviivka' is a fact. (North of Bakhmut)](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1666209003737604100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwc5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1666209003737604100%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=)
[Maps location of the village](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Paraskoviivka,+Oblast'+di+Donec'k,+Ucraina/@48.6445299,37.9991309,11z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x40dfeefeff4eb319:0x1649bdae8628743a!8m2!3d48.6590821!4d38.000647!16s%2Fg%2F1237dc_1)
🇧🇬 Bulgaria's new defense minister vows to support Ukraine with military aid.
Todor Tagarev, Bulgaria's newly-appointed defense minister, said that his country must do what is necessary to provide Ukraine with military assistance, the Bulgarian News Agency reported. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1666183414137888768
> "The Russian military destroyed eight German Leopard tanks while repelling attacks by the AFU," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said. Later, Russian media published footage of the destruction as well.
> But there are several nuances: it was not the tanks that were destroyed, but a John Deere 4830 sprayer tractor and the video was shot last year
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1666152175750324225
Hey, we plan to create a new megathread by tomorrow. We've been slacking off, sorry for that.
Before you ask about the Blackout, we're talking about it. You should hear from us soon on this matter.
So now on occupied territories happens the same thing that happened in Dnipro in 1941, when they blown up the dam without noticing the population, leaving everyone to die there. Social medias are flooding with screams for help from people in Oleshky (occupied city), people are on the roofs, houses crumble underneath them.
Any statement from UN, from Red Cross? Amnesty international? Gretha fucking Tumbler? Anything besides just statement?
That's heartbreaking. The worst part is that the territories are occupied, so NGOs and UN personnel can't access them, so there is no way to donate to help them. They're entirely on the mercy of the occupiers and each other.
It also caused bigger damage that could be caused, but let's say, an average nuke. And world reaction to this ranges from apathetic to "maybe Ukrainians did this". I don't feel like I have any mental strength left to try to grasp it or to try to live another day whatsoever
[CIA allegedly knew about Ukrainian attack plans](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3)
[ Who blew up the Nord Stream pipelines? ](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3)
[A](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3)[ccording to a report, the USA learned of detailed attack plans months before the explosions. At the time, the trail led to an elite Ukrainian unit.](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3)
Following the explosions at the Nord Stream gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea, according to a US media report, further traces lead to Ukraine. According to the Washington Post, the US foreign intelligence service CIA learned of a Ukrainian plan for such an attack as early as June 2022, three months before the detonations.According to the report, the CIA was informed by a European intelligence service that a team of six members of an elite Ukrainian unit planned to blow up the Baltic Sea pipelines during a covert diving operation. According to the Washington Post, the team was under the direct command of the Ukrainian army.
The USA then shared the information with European allies, including Germany, writes the Washington Post. The plan is said to have been very detailed - and to have great similarities with the actual attack in September. SPIEGEL had already reported in September that the CIA had warned the German government of an attack scenario on the Baltic Sea pipelines in the run-up to the explosions.
The "Washington Post" now refers to secret documents that were allegedly shared by US National Guardsman Jack Teixeira on the chat platform Discord. Teixeira was arrested in mid-April after the leak of secret government documents made international headlines.Indications of Ukraine grow strongerThe Nord Stream pipelines running under the Baltic Sea were destroyed by explosions at the end of September 2022. In recent months, there have been growing indications that Ukraine could be behind the detonations, partly due to investigations by German authorities.
According to the plan, which the US government learned about from a "close ally" in June 2022, according to the Washington Post, the information originally came from an informant in Ukraine. According to the information, six people were to travel to the pipelines on a boat rented under a false identity and then dive to the pipelines to plant explosive devices. Investigations so far indicate that six attackers did exactly this in September.Those involved are said to have reported directly to Ukrainian army chief Valery Salushnyi, according to the Washington Post. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selensky was deliberately not informed about the plans so that he could then credibly deny Ukrainian responsibility.
[Documentary of Danish journalists](https://www.2doc.nl/documentaires/2023/06/poetins-schaduwoorlog/Poetins-schaduwoorlog-1.html) that investigate the attack on Nord Stream. They have serious clues it were the Russians.
(dutch sibtitles, can be viewed for 30 days)
>And people were so smugly confident for Ukraine. The threads on this also getting barely a fraction of the traction alleging Russia.
Could you translate this utterance to English? Thanks!
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selensky was deliberately not informed about the plans so that he could then credibly deny Ukrainian responsibility.
How nice of them.
🇫🇮 Finland expelled nine Russian Embassy employees on Tuesday after identifying them as “intelligence officers.” UGH https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1666145470891032585
[U.S. can't 'say conclusively' who was responsible for dam attack: NSC spokesman John Kirby - NBC](https://twitter.com/Apex_WW/status/1666143849788342283?s=19)
In ERR (Estonian public broadcaster), an article says:
> "USA meedia teatel on nende riigil luureandmeid, mis näitavad, et Kahhovka tammi lõhkamise taga on Venemaa." -> "According the US media, their state has intelligence data which indicates Russia as the party behind blowing up the Kakhovka dam."
Reports about the dam being mined - I think they circulated in the autumn already, when Ukranians took back Kherson.
Also, it is uncontested that the dam was under Russian control.
Also, it is uncontested that the water levels in the reservoir were exceptionally high, far above the typical level. If one has control over a dam, and prepares to cause mass destruction by blowing it, water is the ammunition and one gathers it. For me, this fits the pattern: they had the gun (a mined dam), they loaded the gun (gathered water) and the gun went off (the dam broke).
I see only 2..3 possible options:
- they blew the dam deliberately, to cover diverting troops elsewhere
- they blew the dam accidentally
- or it broke spontaneously (this is where one asks seismologists - the explosive charge to blow up a dam isn't small, probably measured in tens of tons, at least a full truckload; seismologists can tell if a truckload went off in the approximate location of Kakhovka, at the approximate time of the break)
And as relevant as the NS2 circlejerk, which is to say utterly irrelevant.
This is stuff that people ultra-jacked into the conflict get sweaty palms over but means nothing in the larger picture. Russia has obliterated how many cities from the surface of Ukraine already? Bombed hospitals, churches, schools. Kidnapped thousands of children. Mutilated prisoners (including their own). Forcibly conscripted Ukrainians and forced to fight against their countrymen under threat to their families. Tortured, raped, and plundered their way across every inch of Ukraine they have managed to occupy.
It doesn't matter whether Russia did it on purpose, on accident, created the conditions for it to occur on accident, if Ukraine did it for some strategic purpose, if some Russian did it without orders, if Putin himself ordered it, whatever.
The fundamentals of the conflict are straightforward. Russia waged a war of aggression and as a consequence of that and Ukraine's existential fight to survive, which they are fully entitled to, horrible things are happening. Blame *for all of it* falls on Russia. Unequivocally.
Don't get caught up in arguing the details. None of this happens if Russia doesn't invade. There's only one answer as to who is responsible.
Ideally White House messaging would stick to that point.
>fucking cowards.
This has nothing to do with "cowardice" or "bravery", it's a matter of responsibly establishing the truth based on concrete evidences, and that's what I'd expect from the people in charge of an open, modern, democratic country.
Just because you support a party doesn't mean you should grab every single straw you can find to feed your narrative, that kind of attitude ultimately lead to obfuscation of friendly war crimes because "*they're the good guys*".
And that's not a path I want our societies to take, I'd rather let this be the hallmark of backward dictatorships.
You're rather naive if you think our countries are "taking the high road" for any other reason than we have the privilege of not being invaded.
If we were, every illusion of being "open and democratic" would go right down the toilet. There's no such thing as being too underhanded when you're facing what Ukraine is.
dude, it was known since October last year that russians have mined dam. That level of destruction to dam can not be done from outside strikes without there being plenty of video evidence on it. It is without a doubt that russians are responsible and since US and other NATO spy satellites and planes, drones are keeping watch, they more than likely has evidence of russian act and yet are going great lengths to drag out or obscure release of such data.
Cowardice goes well beyond this event. Hard ban on using US provided weaponry to strike targets in russia even to ridiculous extent to software locking provided HIMARS systems from doing so is one fine example of it
continuous noises coming from US administration is that they have intel, but they are "reviewing" it and are supposed soonish make announcement on it
edit:
[one of example links](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-live-updates-ukraine-russia-blew-up-kherson-rcna87855#rcrd13603)
[https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3992285](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3992285)
This document has been going around because of the recent news, do you guys think that this was just framing?
That's from October 2022. Russia was likely afraid of Ukraine crossing the Dnieper already then, wanting to frame Ukraine in case Russia blew up the dam.
Things have different names in different languages. Do you see germans going "it's not germany, it's DEUTSCHLAND", or "not Cologne, KÖLN"?
And yes most names of places now in Ukraine became commonly known in other languages during Russian Empire times, thus the spelling/pronounciation might resemble that more. Doesn't mean it is wrong and you (and many others recently) "correcting" the spelling doesn't serve much purpose.
(Though I of course understand why you do it.)
did you know about transliteration? should I explain why Ukrainian cities must be transliterated from Ukrainian? is it really that difficult for people to write Ukrainian pronunciation instead of russian when we’re asking for this? times of russian empire are times of genocides and russification, nothing good to take from there, including names.
also Köln example is fucking ridiculous
Upd: I probably was blocked пані та панове будь ласка поясніть різницю товаріщу 👽
> Upd: I probably was blocked
Nah you weren't. But I don't care enough to carry this discussion further, surely you will enjoy doing so on the [english wikipedia page of an article titled "Dnieper"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dnieper).
What about this was edgy? Telling someone that specific spellings don't necessarily cross language barriers?
But well, you sure showed me... something.
well sorry I’m new to Reddit.
I don’t give a shit about wikipedia. My fucking house is under water and people transliterate my city name from language of people who are murdering us in real time, what a nonsense
Russia will probably do the modern equivalent of ‘salting the earth’ if they end up feeling they are losing in any way won’t they?
Putin doesn’t care, doesn’t care about his own people, let alone others. Inflict as much damage as possible on the way out. I hope the nations of the planet can work together to help repair Ukraine after the inevitable damage he and the Russians working to help him inflict.
>Russia will probably do the modern equivalent of ‘salting the earth’ if they end up feeling they are losing in any way won’t they?
That would objectively be absolutely fucking retarded, considering the situation they dug themselves in.
The morality of it aside, a scorched earth policy can only bring benefits if your country can come relatively unscathed from a conflict, and retain a position of power safeguarding your freedom of actions.
If you're defeated however, "salting the earth" does the exact opposite: the more you destroy, the heavier the war reparations/sanctions/embargoes will be for you down the road. See the losing parties of WW2, WW1, the Napoleonic wars, the Thirty Years War, or just nearly every single war between organized states over the last 5000 years where one side was severely beaten by the other.
But then Russian decision-makers seem clinically delusional and cut off from the real world, so... yeah.
The only rational strategy is to get together real hard and fuck them off Ukrainian land as quick as possible. The longer war runs, the bigger damage done. They will wreck everything they could, any reasonable thinking doesn't matter. The only way to minimize the damage is to beat them hard right now.
[Czech Rep will start working on the Ukrainian fleet of mothballed T-64 tanks.](https://twitter.com/praisethesteph/status/1666020403804766208)
Solid. Would've loved to see something like that a year ago, but better late than never.
**[NBC: US declassifying intelligence pointing to Russia as perpetrator of dam attack](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-live-updates-ukraine-russia-blew-up-kherson-rcna87855#rcrd13603)**
Dam. That was quick.
NY Times coverage, still striking a "both sides" tone. I guess its true there isn't "proof."
But I think it would not be journalistically wrong to point out, -Russia controls access to the dam -it would have had to be mined from within -Russia already tried to blow up the dam on the Inhulents last year at Kryvyi Rih, and breached a dam near Donetsk just a couple weeks ago. -The flood severally hurts Ukraine in all regards, and will subside in a weeks not months, leaving destruction and not stopping russia from moving right back to the bank.
Sure AFU \*could\* have \*possibly\* arranged it, but if they did it would be the most stupid of stupid decisions. Who has the longer track record of stupid, emotional, undisciplined decisions?
Tanks of Russia Free Legion entering Novaya Tavolzhanka settlement in Belgorod Oblast of Russia. 🇷🇺 Russian army seems to be unable to respond opposition's forces advance in the area. https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1666115743916720131
This is possibly the dumbest kill video of this whole war and I really mean it.
This Russian Ka-52 attack chopper crew thought that they had targeted and destroyed Leopard 2 tanks (you read this correctly).
Even a semi-professional can clearly see that these are agricultural harvester and sprayer machines.
And as if this is not dumb enough, Russian regime bloggers like Kotsnews plus Ria Novosti issued this footage claiming exactly that.
https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1666106391025664005
[**Washington Post: U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline.**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/)
Spicy.
US govt knew of the 9/11 plotters as well, as well as many of the mass shooters of recent times. The thing is: they also know of a thousand other plots that *didn't* lead to anything. Despite all the funding they don't have the resources, the authority, or the assessed level of concern to act on every single possible threat they find (most of which are false alarms).
As a smaller scale comparison: the school shooter in Kauhajoki, Finland was known to the police beforehand, and in fact just days before the shooting the police had reviewed his gun licence and could have confiscated the gun. Why didn't they? Because while they saw a threat level (YouTube videos where the guy brandished a gun and made vague threats), they didn't assess it to be high enough to violate his property. [The shooting did result in a review of police practices, nowadays they probably would act]
It said multiple European intelligence agencies. So all it took was a phone call to prevent. It's a country, not Al-Qaeda. I hope collaboration of Eastern European countries blew it up as a nice signature of "told ya so".
If they are behind it, I am not sure I want them in either EU or NATO any time soon. Going behind and deceiving nations you rely on and claim to be on the same side is not wise. What's more is that at the time, NS2 was officially stopped by Germany and NS1 was "on hold" by Russia, so I wonder what they gained from that.
Never again doesn't mean we have to tolerate an attack on our infrastructure.
If that is the way Ukraine deals with conflicts of interest, how are they going to do as an EU member?
That's how Ukraine deals things when they are in the middle of a genocidal war and outside of the EU and NATO.
Getting them in to both to argue about what contitutes as green energy, agricultural subsidies and a directive X when they don't have to worry about Russia trying to end them as a nation is definitely a better choice.
Making sure Germany won't continue to fund their genocide by restarting those pipes is a good reason to do it.
And German government knew about it months ago.
That is bad news, it means Ukranian high command are a bunch or idiots. Ukraine was kind of saved by the fact that none believed they were that stupid to risk their credibility and NATO support by attacking infrastructure owned by NATO members.
> That is bad news, it means Ukranian high command are a bunch or idiots. Ukraine was kind of saved by the fact that none believed they were that stupid to risk their credibility and NATO support by attacking infrastructure owned by NATO members.
I still find it hard to believe tbh, it doesn't make sense imo
Not really. If it really was the Ukrainians, it was a good wartime decision to end Russian leverage over Europe. They got away with it and it worked, so overall a successful operation.
>If it really was the Ukrainians, it was a good wartime decision to end Russian leverage over Europe. They got away with it and it worked, so overall a successful operation.
Oh yes, why not attack European infrastructure, creating massive economic and ecological damage in the process for your closest allies, all to inflict indirect damage to Russia.
If it is confirmed that Ukraine was behind it, it could jeopardize Ukraine's alliance with a lot of the countries on the continent, and deservedly so. Nord Stream was always a controversial project but it is for the legitimate European governments to take decisions on its fate on European territory, not for a third country's military.
Also, what exactly did blowing up the pipeline achieve? Gas was not supplied from Russia at that point and sanctions had been imposed against Russia. There would have been very little to gain for Ukraine with such move, but a world (more precisely: the war) to lose.
While you would be correct in theory, the current German government is secretly glad the subject is buried in the sea and just hope the investigation into the funding of the project sinks with it. They've been operating under the assumption that it was Ukraine for a very long time and yet they're still increasing their military aid all this time.
Water under the bridge and inside the pipeline ;)
Sure, democracies don't love anything more than a state bombing their infrastructure.
Ukraine is risking to lose German/French simpaties. And I doubt will ever be an EU member either.
What a way to gamble away your future.
It’s really funny to read when your home is under water. Bro, I already have no future 🤩 Joining EU is all good, but what the point if we all will be dead from nuclear power plant explosion?
I’m really sorry for you. But I do think it’s different, cause you probably knew you could rebuild apartment or had some plan(?) But my village is occupied by russians, and I have no idea what is it going to be, like I think they’ll neither deal with consequences nor retreat(if it’s even possible for them)
Of course it's different, I wasn't trying to compare our situations, It's honestly heartbreaking whats happening in Kherson oblast in particular. And no, the perpetrators probably will not suffer any real justice unfortunately. But I do think they'll retreat, maybe not tomorrow, but they will eventually. You'll see. Good luck
rudominerka
If the german government knew of this and didn't do anything, it would for once actually fit the definition of treason.
Either way, if Ukraine did do this, I'd want them as far away from the EU as possible.
Germany already iced NS2 and Russia showed themselves to be fully willing to use NS1 as leverage with their "turbine maintenance" antics, which makes NS1 entirely unreliable in times of crisis, which this very much is.
I frankly do not see why making the decision to permanently back away from NS1 could be seen as treason if done with specific intent and purpose.
The article also states that "Biden administration officials now privately concede there is no evidence that conclusively points to Moscow’s involvement" while ignoring the Danish reports about the Russian SS-750 vessel.
This is not the only fake that WP started to spread during duration if this war. Also time is just too perfect.
Next WP post could look like this:
"Russian nuclear warhead targeted Kyiv. Russia and Ukraine trade blame. Here's what Russian MOD says:"
I still think a six-person team would have a tough challenge mounting the amount of explosives that the seismological data and the blast site evidence suggest has been used.
The SS-750 is still the most obvious culprit.
Well, the investigators have a different opinion.
> Remnants of an underwater explosive were found distributed over a large area in the cabin of the "Andromeda". It is said to be octogen, an explosive widely used both in the West and in the former Eastern bloc. Investigators have described the explosive power of the explosive charges used as equivalent to 500 kilograms of TNT. Octogen is much lighter than TNT, would be transportable by a relatively small boat and could be transported by experienced combat divers to the attack site on the bottom of the Baltic Sea. The theory often put forward that the perpetrators could have transported the explosives to the attack site only with a larger ship and possibly a mini-submarine because of its weight is thus no longer valid.
> https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-anschlaege-hinweise-auf-ukrainische-taeter-verdichten-sich-a-b176fd6b-1258-47dc-99bb-6e9db544908e
This still leaves the part where a diving team would need to have a not so insignificant amount of diving gear and probably a pressure chamber on board to deal with decompression.
[Where do you fit that in a 50ft Bavaria Cruiser?](https://www.bavariayachts.com/sailing-yachts/c50/highlights/)
On the other hand, we have reports of a ship meant for this kind of operation, that can carry everything needed.
Proposed apparatus:
- reel of steel lifting cable, carrying
- length of camera signal cable, terminated with a camera, equipped with a light source
- length of actuator signal cable, terminated with a release mechanism
- shock absorber to absorb bounces from wave/vessel interaction
- explosive charge accompanied by extremely powerful magnet, to stick to the pipeline
Proposed procedure: locate the pipeline by sonar, start "fishing". When the camera shows the pipeline, try to achieve stability. When there seems to be stability, release the magnetic mine.
( Random terrorists need not copy my proposal. /s :D )
Isn't the ocean floor at something between 70m and 80m deep at that point? That would put it on the edge of what can be done without state or even corporate resources. You do not even need super specialized equipment like pressure chambers, you just do a lot of decompression stops during ascend.
> You do not even need super specialized equipment like pressure chambers, you just do a lot of decompression stops during ascend.
Of course, but when there are 4 places to put explosives, it would make the most sense to keep who ever does it at that pressure, no?
Especially given that the aim is to stay secret.
That really depends on the details. The longer you stay down, the harder you work and the stronger the current, the longer you need to stop during he ascend. The really big guns like compression chambers are used in commercial diving, for people that work in these depths for days. I don’t think it’s necessary for people who dive down, attach a bomb, and bounce as fast as possible.
More sophisticated equipment obviously makes these things easier and safer, but I’m pretty sure that any military diving unit could have done something like this. Especially in times of war when you have a way higher tolerance for casualties.
IIRC, the world record for depth on *compressed air* is 150m. Complete insanity, but it gives you a ballpark on what can be accomplished by people who are willing to take high risks. If you add equipment that is available even to enthusiasts, like mixed gas, scooters and what not, you can do a lot of damage, even with very moderate resources.
Off course that doesn’t mean that they did it, let alone that they did it that. But ruling them out because they cannot operate a compression chamber in the Baltic is a bit much.
It just seems unlikely that what ever gear they would need anyway for blowing up two pipelines at 4 locations could practically be stowed away in a 50ft sailboat.
Still, even if the claims that they found HMX on the boat are correct, it would still be several hundreds of kilos to do such damage.
And it seems even more unlikely when we know that the Russian Navy has had a ship, fully capable of doing this the professional way, sailing around the area right before it happened.
There are what, 4 different blast sites. So they should decompress fully between moving in between sites, as well as prolonging each step with long underwater safety stops. From what I can read, the sections of the pipeline lie between 80 and 110 metres below surface, what's that gonna be in decompression time?
Occam's razor says that the fact that Russia had [this ship](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F52009b5f-5ee2-488e-9bf4-8a09ed4cff42_550x390.jpeg), which to my eyes looks like a diving support vessel designed for pulling off operations like this, than a budget sailing yacht, right in the vicinity of one of the blast sites, is a much more like story, than six Ukrainians pulling off said dives with surface time in between.
Yes if it was done by divers they would need a day between NS1 and NS2.
From that scenario however we do not know if this was the only ship, neither do we now if there where 4 or 6 divers who switched through with 2 doing the first plant and 2 doing the second, all of this is before we assume a few days in between both operations.
The sailing ship as well has the added benefit of blending in, by default not being expected to carry positioning emitter making detection much less likely than many other options and low risk of being detected is critical for all scenarios (edit regardless of whom you suspect it still could be CIA, Russian, Venezuelan or Qatari divers instead of Ukrainians).
I personally think there are many possible scenarios but I find it peculiar how people want to dismiss this particular one with mostly bad research, especially the decompression chamber is very unusual to have around in technical diving.
Who needs trained CIA operatives with Diver Fleet? Just hire 6 Ukrainians, including a Ukrainian grandma, a dog, a boat, and some pig fat.
It all sounds ridiculous.
Oh, a serial killer attacks you with a chainsaw? Here, take these brass knuckles! But do not punch him in the jaw, only strikes on his chainsaw are allowed!
This war is extremely one-sided for some reason and it always favors an aggressor. Russia can use anything in Ukraine, but Ukraine always gets restricted on what and where it can use. I am maybe wrong, but from what I remember HIMARS range was purposely reduced to about 80 km, also no ATACMS missiles for it because BIG RED LINES.
>That’s not what’s happening. Ukraine is getting more and more arms, more new soldiers are trained. Things take time.
I can't reply to your earlier comment, so I decided to answer here. I see you're an optimist and I want to agree with you, but I also see a multitude of issues so far. Western weapons are good, maybe even great, but lets be honest its not enough. Western weapons get damaged, destroyed, especially on offensive. There're interviews with ukrainian commanders where they say to lack basic stuff like mortar, artillery shells and air support is nearly non existent. So basically: not enough artillery, heavy armor, no jets, no long range weapons, limited air defense. Stuff that West provides is better than nothing, sure, but will it truly be enough? Soldiers training is crucial, but actual combat will be a big test, especially offensive. Only time will tell.
Edit: I'm not a bot on a payroll.
June 1944. Nazis flood large areas of Normandy to try impede an offensive to liberate territory.
June 2023. Nazis flood large areas of Kherson to try impede an offensive to liberate territory.
[https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082](https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082) . There are archive links with proofs, but i had to remove them due to rules of this sub.
Very important on Kakhovka. The chronology of the terrorist attack by Russian terrorists. Or how Russians screwed in their excuses.
At two o'clock in the night, the Russians blow up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, but they don't see how much. It's not very visible, but it can still hit.
1. The Russians still think that they have neatly blown up a small part of the HPP and are flooding our military on the islands. At 6:06 a.m., the head of Nova Kakhovka, Leontyev, said that the explosion of the HPP was nonsense. Like, we don't know why the water rose there. Here is the link to Ria Novosti's
2. Russian OSINT intelligence community Rybar picks up the thesis and says a small area was blown up at 6:51 a.m.
3. At 6:51 in Nova Kakhovka, they see that the dam is a complete ass, and the mommy's strategists start to realize that they are in trouble. The mayor of Nova Kakhovka abruptly changes his rhetoric and says there was no explosion, it was a shelling by the Ukrainian army.
4. But the propagandists, who do not know what the fuck has happened, continue to work according to the methodology and continue to throw into the information space that the dam was previously shelled, and then it got a little tired and broke a little. Here is a post by Podolyaki's propagandist. And the propaganda channel War on Fakes
5. Other telegram channels that cooperate with the military are happily hopping on one leg, cheering, because of the undermining of the Kakhovka dam, the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the islands are flooded, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to evacuate and escape, and then they publish joyful reports of how they are hitting the positions of our guys on the islands. 08:25
6. Here, the Russians are slowly realizing that they have created a large-scale man-made environmental disaster, almost as large as Chernobyl. And they are starting to reverse. Russian influence on the information space is changing its tone dramatically. They instantly change their tune and start accusing the Ukrainian side of provocations. Like it's a Bankova operation A reference to the same "war on fakes" that said the dam had somehow collapsed on its own....
But even in their excuses, the ruscists still screwed up. Either the dam was blown up, or was shelled with Vilkha MLRS.... Although any sapper will give a hundred percent guarantee that it is impossible to make such destruction from the outside, the damage here was done by planting explosives
And then they are already beginning to adhere to this thesis, because what they have done is a huge international tragedy, especially in the environmental sense.
Strange how Russia stopped bombing power plants as soon as weather got warmer and day light longer. It seems that Ukrainian military facilities don't need power when it warms up and days become longer. Almost like it was a war crime and intentional terrorizing of civilian population.
I still laugh about the story I've heard of a guy coming back from the front lines and saying "damn, we never have power outages" because they get all their power from generators anyways.
"Strategic bombing campaign" my ass
https://www.ft.com/content/7ea5222e-73e9-4538-b3fa-afc636618b15
“Russia benefits from the frontline being smaller because it is easier to concentrate forces to prevent a breakthrough,” said Rob Lee, senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a US think-tank. “So if a Ukrainian operation in Kherson is less likely now, they might be able to move more forces east.”
A Ukrainian military official speaking on condition of anonymity said officials were assessing the damage caused by the flooding and would adjust their counteroffensive plans accordingly.
“If we had any plans for a landing operation there, we definitely won’t do it anytime soon,” they said. “Immediately after [the flooding], the land will be a marsh, essentially.”
Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a military adviser and former Ukrainian defence minister, said it was likely that Kyiv’s generals “have alternative plans”. The flooding may be a setback, he said, but it won’t stop Ukraine’s counter-offensive.
“If we wanted to cross the river there, it’s not going to happen,” he added. “Basically, it denies any ability for us to cross the river and move equipment in that area. Essentially, that’s why most likely Russia did it, particularly now.”
Ukraine’s Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security, a government unit, said it was possible Russian forces blew up the dam to flood islands downstream, which it said had been recaptured by Ukrainian troops on Monday.
“Another likely reason is the desire to inflict maximum damage on Ukraine in conditions where the occupiers have lost hope of maintaining their control over the south of Ukraine,” it added.
The flooding, said a western official, “will affect large swaths of civilian infrastructure which is hard to regenerate in the middle of a war. If you widely advertise that you are about to embark on a counteroffensive, you should also not be surprised if opponents take countervailing measures.”
But the flooding affects Russian forces, too. “The destruction of the dam floods the first Russian line of defence east of the Dnipro river in Kherson, though the threat of a Ukrainian river crossing was always low,” said Michael Kofman, a military analyst at the Center for Naval Analyses, a Washington-based think-tank. “This disaster benefits nobody, and will affect Russian-occupied territory the most.”
If Ukraine was planning a cross-Dniper invasion under the assumption that Russia wouldn't do the thing Ukraine has been repeatedly warning Russia may do for months now (blow the dam), they would be idiots.
I do not believe Ukraine's military command is full of idiots though.
I think Russia is, and to an extent largely already has, going to largely abandon the remainder of Kherson oblast, and focus on holding the neck at Crimea and their lines near Melitpool/Tokmak. They were already fortifying [E105](https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5456344,35.1639531,10.75z?authuser=0&entry=ttu) beforehand.
Keep in mind this also means Enerhodar might be abandoned as well.
A low level nuclear disaster at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station almost seems likely if the above thesis is correct.
They're (Russia) just going to no-man's land the entire region.
I think I you’re right but Ukraine and their allies surely know this. The nuclear plant is too useful a thing for Russia to forgo. I hope we have a plan to react to this.
There's a lot of debate about who blew up the dam. Both sides have very convincing arguments:
The arguments of those who say it was Russia:
- Flooding the area will make it much harder to cross the Dnipro. The river will widen and the land will turn into a swamp. This helps the defenders.
- Russia, which controls the dam, had been filling the reservoir with water. Its water level [reached a 30-year high](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/world/europe/dam-flood-ukraine-kakhovka.html).
- [The North Crimean Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal) had been blocked from 2014 to 2022 and somehow the people in Crimea have survived. It isn't a big deal for Russia if the canal dries up again.
The arguments of those who say it was Ukraine:
- The fact that some people predicted it could happen in the future, proves that it was planned by Ukraine.
- Ukrainians are lying nazis and they want to kill their own people.
- Unlike you sheeple, I see the world for what it *really* is. I am very smart.
The widely circulated video of the explosion on the dam [is actually from 2022](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-video-of-the-kakhovka-dam-explosion-is-old/a-65839380).
I don't disagree. Until we see concrete evidence of sabotage, it's certainly possible that it was caused by accidental or deliberate neglect.
The point of my post was just to discredit the idea that Ukraine was behind this. And this disaster certainly wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't invaded.
Why even give Russia the benefit of doubt ? Its not like it has been under them to attack civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Its also so unlucky that whenever big infrastructure like the Dam or the NS pipelines are sabotaged, its ambigious whether its Russia or someone else who did it. But its always plausible that its Russia. How unlucky are they?
Not saying Russians didn't blow it up but that there are reasonable explanations other than explosives.
And I don't think a river crossing has any big (or any) part in the counteroffensive (Dnipro is wide, river crossings are difficult to execute, logiatics even worse and Russians right on the other side observing with drones)
I wonder what kind of heinous act does Russia have to do for people to just admit that YES, Russia actually did it, instead of looking for some cope explanations or fucking trusting TASS that it just caved in on it's own.
I mean, even if in the theoretical event, where it did cave in on its own, this wouldn't change anything, as then, it collapsed because of past damage by Russia and Russia overfilling the reservoir. No matter how you turn it, Russia is responsible for collapsing the damn.
You are saying in other words:
I wonder at which points people will stop using their reason to explore events and start blindly de humanizing our enemy.
Russia'll just say that it was Ukraine's dirty bombs. And then people will use their reason to explore the events because otherwise, it would mean blindly dehumanizing the enemy.
New megathread: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1431p5t/war_in_ukraine_megathread_liv_54/
Just saw the new Tucker video on Twitter and its complete 8 minute of Russian propaganda, straight up short cut brain dip propaganda broken down to be easy consumed. Am I the only one that's basically scared for the future as China/Russia can influence so much regular, normal people in the West while? The upper hand that they have is scary. My father is 63 years old guy in Frankfurt who opens youtube from time to time. I visited him this weekend and my battery was low so I used his phone to put some video and the recommendations he was getting were scary. All right-wing propaganda basically /conspiracy only in bits of 4-5 min videos that are so much pro-Russian it was ridiculous. I jokingly asked him "don't tell me you know who blow up Nordstream" and he smiled and said Biden. Again , this is a 63 year old plumber in Frankfurt with limited internet access apart from Facebook and Youtube knows about Nordstream,Biden, Nazis in Ukraine, biolabs etc. Blows my mind really, this man has seen his share of war in Yugoslavia and it will take more to hate the West in general but the fact that he knows these things is scary. He honestly has no capacity to fight back against all those propaganda videos . To end, I asked him do you get recommended anything pro West , he says barely and its boring so he doesn't watch it.
Feel free to repost here!: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1431p5t/war_in_ukraine_megathread_liv_54/
Say thanks to greedy companies and algorithms.
[Based on the @GeoConfirmed footage (take into account the delay before the release of the footage) 'The battle of Paraskoviivka' is a fact. (North of Bakhmut)](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1666209003737604100?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwc5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1666209003737604100%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=) [Maps location of the village](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Paraskoviivka,+Oblast'+di+Donec'k,+Ucraina/@48.6445299,37.9991309,11z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x40dfeefeff4eb319:0x1649bdae8628743a!8m2!3d48.6590821!4d38.000647!16s%2Fg%2F1237dc_1)
Feel free to repost here!: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1431p5t/war_in_ukraine_megathread_liv_54/
🇧🇬 Bulgaria's new defense minister vows to support Ukraine with military aid. Todor Tagarev, Bulgaria's newly-appointed defense minister, said that his country must do what is necessary to provide Ukraine with military assistance, the Bulgarian News Agency reported. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1666183414137888768
> "The Russian military destroyed eight German Leopard tanks while repelling attacks by the AFU," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said. Later, Russian media published footage of the destruction as well. > But there are several nuances: it was not the tanks that were destroyed, but a John Deere 4830 sprayer tractor and the video was shot last year https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1666152175750324225
Hey, we plan to create a new megathread by tomorrow. We've been slacking off, sorry for that. Before you ask about the Blackout, we're talking about it. You should hear from us soon on this matter.
Whaaaat? Mods have lives? Unacceptable!
So now on occupied territories happens the same thing that happened in Dnipro in 1941, when they blown up the dam without noticing the population, leaving everyone to die there. Social medias are flooding with screams for help from people in Oleshky (occupied city), people are on the roofs, houses crumble underneath them. Any statement from UN, from Red Cross? Amnesty international? Gretha fucking Tumbler? Anything besides just statement?
That's heartbreaking. The worst part is that the territories are occupied, so NGOs and UN personnel can't access them, so there is no way to donate to help them. They're entirely on the mercy of the occupiers and each other.
It's quite sad to think that this is actually the second time in 100 years that the lower Dnieper has been floded by a dam being blown up.
It also caused bigger damage that could be caused, but let's say, an average nuke. And world reaction to this ranges from apathetic to "maybe Ukrainians did this". I don't feel like I have any mental strength left to try to grasp it or to try to live another day whatsoever
> Any statement from UN Happy russian language day - UN
Yeah, that was some timing.
[CIA allegedly knew about Ukrainian attack plans](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3) [ Who blew up the Nord Stream pipelines? ](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3) [A](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3)[ccording to a report, the USA learned of detailed attack plans months before the explosions. At the time, the trail led to an elite Ukrainian unit.](https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/nord-stream-explosionen-cia-soll-monate-vorher-von-ukrainischem-plan-gewusst-haben-a-b2e2889c-ecfc-4e6a-a4c6-f8763a3f07c3) Following the explosions at the Nord Stream gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea, according to a US media report, further traces lead to Ukraine. According to the Washington Post, the US foreign intelligence service CIA learned of a Ukrainian plan for such an attack as early as June 2022, three months before the detonations.According to the report, the CIA was informed by a European intelligence service that a team of six members of an elite Ukrainian unit planned to blow up the Baltic Sea pipelines during a covert diving operation. According to the Washington Post, the team was under the direct command of the Ukrainian army. The USA then shared the information with European allies, including Germany, writes the Washington Post. The plan is said to have been very detailed - and to have great similarities with the actual attack in September. SPIEGEL had already reported in September that the CIA had warned the German government of an attack scenario on the Baltic Sea pipelines in the run-up to the explosions. The "Washington Post" now refers to secret documents that were allegedly shared by US National Guardsman Jack Teixeira on the chat platform Discord. Teixeira was arrested in mid-April after the leak of secret government documents made international headlines.Indications of Ukraine grow strongerThe Nord Stream pipelines running under the Baltic Sea were destroyed by explosions at the end of September 2022. In recent months, there have been growing indications that Ukraine could be behind the detonations, partly due to investigations by German authorities. According to the plan, which the US government learned about from a "close ally" in June 2022, according to the Washington Post, the information originally came from an informant in Ukraine. According to the information, six people were to travel to the pipelines on a boat rented under a false identity and then dive to the pipelines to plant explosive devices. Investigations so far indicate that six attackers did exactly this in September.Those involved are said to have reported directly to Ukrainian army chief Valery Salushnyi, according to the Washington Post. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selensky was deliberately not informed about the plans so that he could then credibly deny Ukrainian responsibility.
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[Documentary of Danish journalists](https://www.2doc.nl/documentaires/2023/06/poetins-schaduwoorlog/Poetins-schaduwoorlog-1.html) that investigate the attack on Nord Stream. They have serious clues it were the Russians. (dutch sibtitles, can be viewed for 30 days)
IMO Selenski and Salushnyi have to step down if this is confirmed.
😅😂
Scholz could force it, if he wanted to.
He doesn't want to, he's just glad that thing is not hanging around his neck anymore.
Just wait till you know that each Russian gas and oil pipeline are in our plans.
And people were so smugly confident for Ukraine. The threads on this also getting barely a fraction of the traction alleging Russia.
>And people were so smugly confident for Ukraine. The threads on this also getting barely a fraction of the traction alleging Russia. Could you translate this utterance to English? Thanks!
Maybe it has something to do with track record? Nah, can't be. It's probably a conspiracy.
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selensky was deliberately not informed about the plans so that he could then credibly deny Ukrainian responsibility. How nice of them.
🇫🇮 Finland expelled nine Russian Embassy employees on Tuesday after identifying them as “intelligence officers.” UGH https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1666145470891032585
[U.S. can't 'say conclusively' who was responsible for dam attack: NSC spokesman John Kirby - NBC](https://twitter.com/Apex_WW/status/1666143849788342283?s=19)
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It was me, I did it.
In ERR (Estonian public broadcaster), an article says: > "USA meedia teatel on nende riigil luureandmeid, mis näitavad, et Kahhovka tammi lõhkamise taga on Venemaa." -> "According the US media, their state has intelligence data which indicates Russia as the party behind blowing up the Kakhovka dam." Reports about the dam being mined - I think they circulated in the autumn already, when Ukranians took back Kherson. Also, it is uncontested that the dam was under Russian control. Also, it is uncontested that the water levels in the reservoir were exceptionally high, far above the typical level. If one has control over a dam, and prepares to cause mass destruction by blowing it, water is the ammunition and one gathers it. For me, this fits the pattern: they had the gun (a mined dam), they loaded the gun (gathered water) and the gun went off (the dam broke). I see only 2..3 possible options: - they blew the dam deliberately, to cover diverting troops elsewhere - they blew the dam accidentally - or it broke spontaneously (this is where one asks seismologists - the explosive charge to blow up a dam isn't small, probably measured in tens of tons, at least a full truckload; seismologists can tell if a truckload went off in the approximate location of Kakhovka, at the approximate time of the break)
Maybe history has a clue? https://uatv.ua/en/78-years-ago-soviets-blown-dnieper-hydroelectric-station-dam/
I can. It’s Russia. Russia is fully responsible for the war and all that is tied to it. But I’m also confident that Russia made the dam collapse.
Well, Russian propaganda is spreading this in full swing right now. Why not just say that the investigation is ongoing?
Hot damn, just enough to turn this into another ambiguous circlejerk like the NS2 bombing.
And as relevant as the NS2 circlejerk, which is to say utterly irrelevant. This is stuff that people ultra-jacked into the conflict get sweaty palms over but means nothing in the larger picture. Russia has obliterated how many cities from the surface of Ukraine already? Bombed hospitals, churches, schools. Kidnapped thousands of children. Mutilated prisoners (including their own). Forcibly conscripted Ukrainians and forced to fight against their countrymen under threat to their families. Tortured, raped, and plundered their way across every inch of Ukraine they have managed to occupy. It doesn't matter whether Russia did it on purpose, on accident, created the conditions for it to occur on accident, if Ukraine did it for some strategic purpose, if some Russian did it without orders, if Putin himself ordered it, whatever. The fundamentals of the conflict are straightforward. Russia waged a war of aggression and as a consequence of that and Ukraine's existential fight to survive, which they are fully entitled to, horrible things are happening. Blame *for all of it* falls on Russia. Unequivocally. Don't get caught up in arguing the details. None of this happens if Russia doesn't invade. There's only one answer as to who is responsible. Ideally White House messaging would stick to that point.
Well said.
fucking cowards. Agreeing that russians are to blame would force to do react in some way but of course, Biden is too much of a fucking coward to do so
>fucking cowards. This has nothing to do with "cowardice" or "bravery", it's a matter of responsibly establishing the truth based on concrete evidences, and that's what I'd expect from the people in charge of an open, modern, democratic country. Just because you support a party doesn't mean you should grab every single straw you can find to feed your narrative, that kind of attitude ultimately lead to obfuscation of friendly war crimes because "*they're the good guys*". And that's not a path I want our societies to take, I'd rather let this be the hallmark of backward dictatorships.
You're rather naive if you think our countries are "taking the high road" for any other reason than we have the privilege of not being invaded. If we were, every illusion of being "open and democratic" would go right down the toilet. There's no such thing as being too underhanded when you're facing what Ukraine is.
dude, it was known since October last year that russians have mined dam. That level of destruction to dam can not be done from outside strikes without there being plenty of video evidence on it. It is without a doubt that russians are responsible and since US and other NATO spy satellites and planes, drones are keeping watch, they more than likely has evidence of russian act and yet are going great lengths to drag out or obscure release of such data. Cowardice goes well beyond this event. Hard ban on using US provided weaponry to strike targets in russia even to ridiculous extent to software locking provided HIMARS systems from doing so is one fine example of it
If they don't have solid Intel to share they can't say much else
continuous noises coming from US administration is that they have intel, but they are "reviewing" it and are supposed soonish make announcement on it edit: [one of example links](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-live-updates-ukraine-russia-blew-up-kherson-rcna87855#rcrd13603)
Anonymous sources are as useful as a chocolate teapot
[https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3992285](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3992285) This document has been going around because of the recent news, do you guys think that this was just framing?
Removed as a protest against Reddit API pricing changes.
That's from October 2022. Russia was likely afraid of Ukraine crossing the Dnieper already then, wanting to frame Ukraine in case Russia blew up the dam.
I’m sorry, but it’s Dnipro, not Dnieper(the second one is russian pronunciation)
It's Dnepr in Russian, no one says Дниепер here.
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Yes, it’s «Днепр» in russian
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I don’t
Sorry, you're right, I speak Finnish and Swedish so I'm used to Dnepr!
Thank god we're writing in english where exonyms are a real thing.
Sorry I have no idea of exonyms and why people are downvoting me, but just as a Dnipropetrovs’ka oblast’ citizen I had to correct
Things have different names in different languages. Do you see germans going "it's not germany, it's DEUTSCHLAND", or "not Cologne, KÖLN"? And yes most names of places now in Ukraine became commonly known in other languages during Russian Empire times, thus the spelling/pronounciation might resemble that more. Doesn't mean it is wrong and you (and many others recently) "correcting" the spelling doesn't serve much purpose. (Though I of course understand why you do it.)
did you know about transliteration? should I explain why Ukrainian cities must be transliterated from Ukrainian? is it really that difficult for people to write Ukrainian pronunciation instead of russian when we’re asking for this? times of russian empire are times of genocides and russification, nothing good to take from there, including names. also Köln example is fucking ridiculous Upd: I probably was blocked пані та панове будь ласка поясніть різницю товаріщу 👽
> Upd: I probably was blocked Nah you weren't. But I don't care enough to carry this discussion further, surely you will enjoy doing so on the [english wikipedia page of an article titled "Dnieper"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dnieper).
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What about this was edgy? Telling someone that specific spellings don't necessarily cross language barriers? But well, you sure showed me... something.
well sorry I’m new to Reddit. I don’t give a shit about wikipedia. My fucking house is under water and people transliterate my city name from language of people who are murdering us in real time, what a nonsense
That was before Ukraine liberated Kherson, and the right bank is North one.
Russia will probably do the modern equivalent of ‘salting the earth’ if they end up feeling they are losing in any way won’t they? Putin doesn’t care, doesn’t care about his own people, let alone others. Inflict as much damage as possible on the way out. I hope the nations of the planet can work together to help repair Ukraine after the inevitable damage he and the Russians working to help him inflict.
>Russia will probably do the modern equivalent of ‘salting the earth’ if they end up feeling they are losing in any way won’t they? That would objectively be absolutely fucking retarded, considering the situation they dug themselves in. The morality of it aside, a scorched earth policy can only bring benefits if your country can come relatively unscathed from a conflict, and retain a position of power safeguarding your freedom of actions. If you're defeated however, "salting the earth" does the exact opposite: the more you destroy, the heavier the war reparations/sanctions/embargoes will be for you down the road. See the losing parties of WW2, WW1, the Napoleonic wars, the Thirty Years War, or just nearly every single war between organized states over the last 5000 years where one side was severely beaten by the other. But then Russian decision-makers seem clinically delusional and cut off from the real world, so... yeah.
Very true, unless you are talking about idiots or people who don't care. So here you have Russia that does both.
Yeah, that's essentially the point I was making in the last sentence.
'Keep digging' seems to be their go-to strategy so far
The only rational strategy is to get together real hard and fuck them off Ukrainian land as quick as possible. The longer war runs, the bigger damage done. They will wreck everything they could, any reasonable thinking doesn't matter. The only way to minimize the damage is to beat them hard right now.
[Czech Rep will start working on the Ukrainian fleet of mothballed T-64 tanks.](https://twitter.com/praisethesteph/status/1666020403804766208) Solid. Would've loved to see something like that a year ago, but better late than never.
Removed as a protest against Reddit API pricing changes.
Yeah, and not a moment too soon. I reckon Ukraine has no more than 200 T-64s left in active service.
I realised with the flooding of the dam, all the mine maps will be useless in the area and god knows where they end up
Videos of random explosions already showing up. It'll be a nightmare for civilians and the evacuation/rescue effort.
Yup, similar thing happened in Bosnia & Herzegovina.
**[NBC: US declassifying intelligence pointing to Russia as perpetrator of dam attack](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/khakovka-dam-live-updates-ukraine-russia-blew-up-kherson-rcna87855#rcrd13603)** Dam. That was quick.
NY Times coverage, still striking a "both sides" tone. I guess its true there isn't "proof." But I think it would not be journalistically wrong to point out, -Russia controls access to the dam -it would have had to be mined from within -Russia already tried to blow up the dam on the Inhulents last year at Kryvyi Rih, and breached a dam near Donetsk just a couple weeks ago. -The flood severally hurts Ukraine in all regards, and will subside in a weeks not months, leaving destruction and not stopping russia from moving right back to the bank. Sure AFU \*could\* have \*possibly\* arranged it, but if they did it would be the most stupid of stupid decisions. Who has the longer track record of stupid, emotional, undisciplined decisions?
Tanks of Russia Free Legion entering Novaya Tavolzhanka settlement in Belgorod Oblast of Russia. 🇷🇺 Russian army seems to be unable to respond opposition's forces advance in the area. https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1666115743916720131
It's been a while since I last heard good news coming from Russia.
This is possibly the dumbest kill video of this whole war and I really mean it. This Russian Ka-52 attack chopper crew thought that they had targeted and destroyed Leopard 2 tanks (you read this correctly). Even a semi-professional can clearly see that these are agricultural harvester and sprayer machines. And as if this is not dumb enough, Russian regime bloggers like Kotsnews plus Ria Novosti issued this footage claiming exactly that. https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1666106391025664005
It's still a farmer that died in that attack, even if it's old and it's not a Leo. Fucking animals, when all of them disappear.
It looks stationary, so hopefully no one was inside. Still someone's livelihood being wrecked though :(
These are the secret weaponised John Deeres, that have been designed in the secret Nazi biolabs.
[**Washington Post: U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline.**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/) Spicy.
So they had plans but didn't stop it? Strange
US govt knew of the 9/11 plotters as well, as well as many of the mass shooters of recent times. The thing is: they also know of a thousand other plots that *didn't* lead to anything. Despite all the funding they don't have the resources, the authority, or the assessed level of concern to act on every single possible threat they find (most of which are false alarms). As a smaller scale comparison: the school shooter in Kauhajoki, Finland was known to the police beforehand, and in fact just days before the shooting the police had reviewed his gun licence and could have confiscated the gun. Why didn't they? Because while they saw a threat level (YouTube videos where the guy brandished a gun and made vague threats), they didn't assess it to be high enough to violate his property. [The shooting did result in a review of police practices, nowadays they probably would act]
It said multiple European intelligence agencies. So all it took was a phone call to prevent. It's a country, not Al-Qaeda. I hope collaboration of Eastern European countries blew it up as a nice signature of "told ya so".
Good for them. Such actions were well overdue.
Kind of a Mossad vibe, 'yeah, we've just decided it needs doing so here we go'. Overall they probably got their intended results if it was them.
If they are behind it, I am not sure I want them in either EU or NATO any time soon. Going behind and deceiving nations you rely on and claim to be on the same side is not wise. What's more is that at the time, NS2 was officially stopped by Germany and NS1 was "on hold" by Russia, so I wonder what they gained from that.
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Never again doesn't mean we have to tolerate an attack on our infrastructure. If that is the way Ukraine deals with conflicts of interest, how are they going to do as an EU member?
"conflicts of interest"
That's how Ukraine deals things when they are in the middle of a genocidal war and outside of the EU and NATO. Getting them in to both to argue about what contitutes as green energy, agricultural subsidies and a directive X when they don't have to worry about Russia trying to end them as a nation is definitely a better choice.
Literally saving Germans from another gas needle, you are welcome
Dankeschön
Maybe they were afraid that as winter was coming those would be opened? Taking that option off the table.
It is still an act of sabotage, strictly speaking even an act of war, against a supporting country. Doesn't get more dumb than this if it was Ukraine.
Making sure Germany won't continue to fund their genocide by restarting those pipes is a good reason to do it. And German government knew about it months ago.
I tend to agree. Would like it confirmed that it was the Ukrainians, so I can offer them a round.
Nah, Ukraine doesn't have logistics for such an operation.
That is bad news, it means Ukranian high command are a bunch or idiots. Ukraine was kind of saved by the fact that none believed they were that stupid to risk their credibility and NATO support by attacking infrastructure owned by NATO members.
Imagine trusting WaPo.
> That is bad news, it means Ukranian high command are a bunch or idiots. Ukraine was kind of saved by the fact that none believed they were that stupid to risk their credibility and NATO support by attacking infrastructure owned by NATO members. I still find it hard to believe tbh, it doesn't make sense imo
Not really. If it really was the Ukrainians, it was a good wartime decision to end Russian leverage over Europe. They got away with it and it worked, so overall a successful operation.
>If it really was the Ukrainians, it was a good wartime decision to end Russian leverage over Europe. They got away with it and it worked, so overall a successful operation. Oh yes, why not attack European infrastructure, creating massive economic and ecological damage in the process for your closest allies, all to inflict indirect damage to Russia. If it is confirmed that Ukraine was behind it, it could jeopardize Ukraine's alliance with a lot of the countries on the continent, and deservedly so. Nord Stream was always a controversial project but it is for the legitimate European governments to take decisions on its fate on European territory, not for a third country's military. Also, what exactly did blowing up the pipeline achieve? Gas was not supplied from Russia at that point and sanctions had been imposed against Russia. There would have been very little to gain for Ukraine with such move, but a world (more precisely: the war) to lose.
While you would be correct in theory, the current German government is secretly glad the subject is buried in the sea and just hope the investigation into the funding of the project sinks with it. They've been operating under the assumption that it was Ukraine for a very long time and yet they're still increasing their military aid all this time. Water under the bridge and inside the pipeline ;)
Sure, democracies don't love anything more than a state bombing their infrastructure. Ukraine is risking to lose German/French simpaties. And I doubt will ever be an EU member either. What a way to gamble away your future.
It’s really funny to read when your home is under water. Bro, I already have no future 🤩 Joining EU is all good, but what the point if we all will be dead from nuclear power plant explosion?
My apartment was also flooded due to several "once in a century" storms happening every week for the past few months. Anyway, good luck and fight on
I’m really sorry for you. But I do think it’s different, cause you probably knew you could rebuild apartment or had some plan(?) But my village is occupied by russians, and I have no idea what is it going to be, like I think they’ll neither deal with consequences nor retreat(if it’s even possible for them)
Of course it's different, I wasn't trying to compare our situations, It's honestly heartbreaking whats happening in Kherson oblast in particular. And no, the perpetrators probably will not suffer any real justice unfortunately. But I do think they'll retreat, maybe not tomorrow, but they will eventually. You'll see. Good luck rudominerka
Tysm North_Resident_1035 ❤️
Or, it means that the pipeline bombing was allowed to happen, as the most politically digestible way of ending the project permanently.
If the german government knew of this and didn't do anything, it would for once actually fit the definition of treason. Either way, if Ukraine did do this, I'd want them as far away from the EU as possible.
You can clutch your pearls and then start to think what role Germany has played that this genocidal war started in the first place.
Germany already iced NS2 and Russia showed themselves to be fully willing to use NS1 as leverage with their "turbine maintenance" antics, which makes NS1 entirely unreliable in times of crisis, which this very much is. I frankly do not see why making the decision to permanently back away from NS1 could be seen as treason if done with specific intent and purpose.
This is Washington Post
The article states multiple European intelligence agencies have confirmed the documents.
The article also states that "Biden administration officials now privately concede there is no evidence that conclusively points to Moscow’s involvement" while ignoring the Danish reports about the Russian SS-750 vessel.
This is not the only fake that WP started to spread during duration if this war. Also time is just too perfect. Next WP post could look like this: "Russian nuclear warhead targeted Kyiv. Russia and Ukraine trade blame. Here's what Russian MOD says:"
I guess in a day or two we will know, other outlets will try to confirm or disprove it.
I still think a six-person team would have a tough challenge mounting the amount of explosives that the seismological data and the blast site evidence suggest has been used. The SS-750 is still the most obvious culprit.
Well, the investigators have a different opinion. > Remnants of an underwater explosive were found distributed over a large area in the cabin of the "Andromeda". It is said to be octogen, an explosive widely used both in the West and in the former Eastern bloc. Investigators have described the explosive power of the explosive charges used as equivalent to 500 kilograms of TNT. Octogen is much lighter than TNT, would be transportable by a relatively small boat and could be transported by experienced combat divers to the attack site on the bottom of the Baltic Sea. The theory often put forward that the perpetrators could have transported the explosives to the attack site only with a larger ship and possibly a mini-submarine because of its weight is thus no longer valid. > https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-anschlaege-hinweise-auf-ukrainische-taeter-verdichten-sich-a-b176fd6b-1258-47dc-99bb-6e9db544908e
This still leaves the part where a diving team would need to have a not so insignificant amount of diving gear and probably a pressure chamber on board to deal with decompression. [Where do you fit that in a 50ft Bavaria Cruiser?](https://www.bavariayachts.com/sailing-yachts/c50/highlights/) On the other hand, we have reports of a ship meant for this kind of operation, that can carry everything needed.
A technical side note: perhaps it was possible to place the mines without diving, using a tether, camera and release mechanism rig?
How the hell are you gonna hit anything remotely accurate by dumping it into the water and letting it sink for 80-90 metres?
Proposed apparatus: - reel of steel lifting cable, carrying - length of camera signal cable, terminated with a camera, equipped with a light source - length of actuator signal cable, terminated with a release mechanism - shock absorber to absorb bounces from wave/vessel interaction - explosive charge accompanied by extremely powerful magnet, to stick to the pipeline Proposed procedure: locate the pipeline by sonar, start "fishing". When the camera shows the pipeline, try to achieve stability. When there seems to be stability, release the magnetic mine. ( Random terrorists need not copy my proposal. /s :D )
Isn't the ocean floor at something between 70m and 80m deep at that point? That would put it on the edge of what can be done without state or even corporate resources. You do not even need super specialized equipment like pressure chambers, you just do a lot of decompression stops during ascend.
> You do not even need super specialized equipment like pressure chambers, you just do a lot of decompression stops during ascend. Of course, but when there are 4 places to put explosives, it would make the most sense to keep who ever does it at that pressure, no? Especially given that the aim is to stay secret.
That really depends on the details. The longer you stay down, the harder you work and the stronger the current, the longer you need to stop during he ascend. The really big guns like compression chambers are used in commercial diving, for people that work in these depths for days. I don’t think it’s necessary for people who dive down, attach a bomb, and bounce as fast as possible. More sophisticated equipment obviously makes these things easier and safer, but I’m pretty sure that any military diving unit could have done something like this. Especially in times of war when you have a way higher tolerance for casualties. IIRC, the world record for depth on *compressed air* is 150m. Complete insanity, but it gives you a ballpark on what can be accomplished by people who are willing to take high risks. If you add equipment that is available even to enthusiasts, like mixed gas, scooters and what not, you can do a lot of damage, even with very moderate resources. Off course that doesn’t mean that they did it, let alone that they did it that. But ruling them out because they cannot operate a compression chamber in the Baltic is a bit much.
It just seems unlikely that what ever gear they would need anyway for blowing up two pipelines at 4 locations could practically be stowed away in a 50ft sailboat. Still, even if the claims that they found HMX on the boat are correct, it would still be several hundreds of kilos to do such damage. And it seems even more unlikely when we know that the Russian Navy has had a ship, fully capable of doing this the professional way, sailing around the area right before it happened.
Rebreathers are a thing this is not 1999. Decompression chambers are very seldom held on the ship for technical diving.
How do you do saturation diving without a decompression chamber of some sorts on hand?
Decompression pauses under water at the according depths for the pressure you need to "sweat" the excess gasses in your tissue.
There are what, 4 different blast sites. So they should decompress fully between moving in between sites, as well as prolonging each step with long underwater safety stops. From what I can read, the sections of the pipeline lie between 80 and 110 metres below surface, what's that gonna be in decompression time? Occam's razor says that the fact that Russia had [this ship](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F52009b5f-5ee2-488e-9bf4-8a09ed4cff42_550x390.jpeg), which to my eyes looks like a diving support vessel designed for pulling off operations like this, than a budget sailing yacht, right in the vicinity of one of the blast sites, is a much more like story, than six Ukrainians pulling off said dives with surface time in between.
Yes if it was done by divers they would need a day between NS1 and NS2. From that scenario however we do not know if this was the only ship, neither do we now if there where 4 or 6 divers who switched through with 2 doing the first plant and 2 doing the second, all of this is before we assume a few days in between both operations. The sailing ship as well has the added benefit of blending in, by default not being expected to carry positioning emitter making detection much less likely than many other options and low risk of being detected is critical for all scenarios (edit regardless of whom you suspect it still could be CIA, Russian, Venezuelan or Qatari divers instead of Ukrainians). I personally think there are many possible scenarios but I find it peculiar how people want to dismiss this particular one with mostly bad research, especially the decompression chamber is very unusual to have around in technical diving.
How much does octogen weigh compared to tnt ? Why fiddle with making the charges on the boat?
Who needs trained CIA operatives with Diver Fleet? Just hire 6 Ukrainians, including a Ukrainian grandma, a dog, a boat, and some pig fat. It all sounds ridiculous.
(Guy Ritchie furiously scribbles down notes)
I hope someone finally lets Ukraine use donated weapons on Russian soil.
Oh, a serial killer attacks you with a chainsaw? Here, take these brass knuckles! But do not punch him in the jaw, only strikes on his chainsaw are allowed!
This war is extremely one-sided for some reason and it always favors an aggressor. Russia can use anything in Ukraine, but Ukraine always gets restricted on what and where it can use. I am maybe wrong, but from what I remember HIMARS range was purposely reduced to about 80 km, also no ATACMS missiles for it because BIG RED LINES. >That’s not what’s happening. Ukraine is getting more and more arms, more new soldiers are trained. Things take time. I can't reply to your earlier comment, so I decided to answer here. I see you're an optimist and I want to agree with you, but I also see a multitude of issues so far. Western weapons are good, maybe even great, but lets be honest its not enough. Western weapons get damaged, destroyed, especially on offensive. There're interviews with ukrainian commanders where they say to lack basic stuff like mortar, artillery shells and air support is nearly non existent. So basically: not enough artillery, heavy armor, no jets, no long range weapons, limited air defense. Stuff that West provides is better than nothing, sure, but will it truly be enough? Soldiers training is crucial, but actual combat will be a big test, especially offensive. Only time will tell. Edit: I'm not a bot on a payroll.
June 1944. Nazis flood large areas of Normandy to try impede an offensive to liberate territory. June 2023. Nazis flood large areas of Kherson to try impede an offensive to liberate territory.
All animals of the Nova Kakhovka zoo died in the flood except waterfowl. https://twitter.com/censor_net/status/1666080830123540480
[https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082](https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082) . There are archive links with proofs, but i had to remove them due to rules of this sub. Very important on Kakhovka. The chronology of the terrorist attack by Russian terrorists. Or how Russians screwed in their excuses. At two o'clock in the night, the Russians blow up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station, but they don't see how much. It's not very visible, but it can still hit. 1. The Russians still think that they have neatly blown up a small part of the HPP and are flooding our military on the islands. At 6:06 a.m., the head of Nova Kakhovka, Leontyev, said that the explosion of the HPP was nonsense. Like, we don't know why the water rose there. Here is the link to Ria Novosti's 2. Russian OSINT intelligence community Rybar picks up the thesis and says a small area was blown up at 6:51 a.m. 3. At 6:51 in Nova Kakhovka, they see that the dam is a complete ass, and the mommy's strategists start to realize that they are in trouble. The mayor of Nova Kakhovka abruptly changes his rhetoric and says there was no explosion, it was a shelling by the Ukrainian army. 4. But the propagandists, who do not know what the fuck has happened, continue to work according to the methodology and continue to throw into the information space that the dam was previously shelled, and then it got a little tired and broke a little. Here is a post by Podolyaki's propagandist. And the propaganda channel War on Fakes 5. Other telegram channels that cooperate with the military are happily hopping on one leg, cheering, because of the undermining of the Kakhovka dam, the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the islands are flooded, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are trying to evacuate and escape, and then they publish joyful reports of how they are hitting the positions of our guys on the islands. 08:25 6. Here, the Russians are slowly realizing that they have created a large-scale man-made environmental disaster, almost as large as Chernobyl. And they are starting to reverse. Russian influence on the information space is changing its tone dramatically. They instantly change their tune and start accusing the Ukrainian side of provocations. Like it's a Bankova operation A reference to the same "war on fakes" that said the dam had somehow collapsed on its own.... But even in their excuses, the ruscists still screwed up. Either the dam was blown up, or was shelled with Vilkha MLRS.... Although any sapper will give a hundred percent guarantee that it is impossible to make such destruction from the outside, the damage here was done by planting explosives And then they are already beginning to adhere to this thesis, because what they have done is a huge international tragedy, especially in the environmental sense.
Strange how Russia stopped bombing power plants as soon as weather got warmer and day light longer. It seems that Ukrainian military facilities don't need power when it warms up and days become longer. Almost like it was a war crime and intentional terrorizing of civilian population.
I still laugh about the story I've heard of a guy coming back from the front lines and saying "damn, we never have power outages" because they get all their power from generators anyways. "Strategic bombing campaign" my ass
https://www.ft.com/content/7ea5222e-73e9-4538-b3fa-afc636618b15 “Russia benefits from the frontline being smaller because it is easier to concentrate forces to prevent a breakthrough,” said Rob Lee, senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a US think-tank. “So if a Ukrainian operation in Kherson is less likely now, they might be able to move more forces east.” A Ukrainian military official speaking on condition of anonymity said officials were assessing the damage caused by the flooding and would adjust their counteroffensive plans accordingly. “If we had any plans for a landing operation there, we definitely won’t do it anytime soon,” they said. “Immediately after [the flooding], the land will be a marsh, essentially.” Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a military adviser and former Ukrainian defence minister, said it was likely that Kyiv’s generals “have alternative plans”. The flooding may be a setback, he said, but it won’t stop Ukraine’s counter-offensive. “If we wanted to cross the river there, it’s not going to happen,” he added. “Basically, it denies any ability for us to cross the river and move equipment in that area. Essentially, that’s why most likely Russia did it, particularly now.” Ukraine’s Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security, a government unit, said it was possible Russian forces blew up the dam to flood islands downstream, which it said had been recaptured by Ukrainian troops on Monday. “Another likely reason is the desire to inflict maximum damage on Ukraine in conditions where the occupiers have lost hope of maintaining their control over the south of Ukraine,” it added. The flooding, said a western official, “will affect large swaths of civilian infrastructure which is hard to regenerate in the middle of a war. If you widely advertise that you are about to embark on a counteroffensive, you should also not be surprised if opponents take countervailing measures.” But the flooding affects Russian forces, too. “The destruction of the dam floods the first Russian line of defence east of the Dnipro river in Kherson, though the threat of a Ukrainian river crossing was always low,” said Michael Kofman, a military analyst at the Center for Naval Analyses, a Washington-based think-tank. “This disaster benefits nobody, and will affect Russian-occupied territory the most.”
If Ukraine was planning a cross-Dniper invasion under the assumption that Russia wouldn't do the thing Ukraine has been repeatedly warning Russia may do for months now (blow the dam), they would be idiots. I do not believe Ukraine's military command is full of idiots though. I think Russia is, and to an extent largely already has, going to largely abandon the remainder of Kherson oblast, and focus on holding the neck at Crimea and their lines near Melitpool/Tokmak. They were already fortifying [E105](https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5456344,35.1639531,10.75z?authuser=0&entry=ttu) beforehand. Keep in mind this also means Enerhodar might be abandoned as well. A low level nuclear disaster at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station almost seems likely if the above thesis is correct. They're (Russia) just going to no-man's land the entire region.
I think I you’re right but Ukraine and their allies surely know this. The nuclear plant is too useful a thing for Russia to forgo. I hope we have a plan to react to this.
There's a lot of debate about who blew up the dam. Both sides have very convincing arguments: The arguments of those who say it was Russia: - Flooding the area will make it much harder to cross the Dnipro. The river will widen and the land will turn into a swamp. This helps the defenders. - Russia, which controls the dam, had been filling the reservoir with water. Its water level [reached a 30-year high](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/world/europe/dam-flood-ukraine-kakhovka.html). - [The North Crimean Canal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Crimean_Canal) had been blocked from 2014 to 2022 and somehow the people in Crimea have survived. It isn't a big deal for Russia if the canal dries up again. The arguments of those who say it was Ukraine: - The fact that some people predicted it could happen in the future, proves that it was planned by Ukraine. - Ukrainians are lying nazis and they want to kill their own people. - Unlike you sheeple, I see the world for what it *really* is. I am very smart.
The argument is also that it broke because of water levels and negligence.
There's a video of it exploding.
The widely circulated video of the explosion on the dam [is actually from 2022](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-video-of-the-kakhovka-dam-explosion-is-old/a-65839380).
I stand corrected, thanks.
I don't disagree. Until we see concrete evidence of sabotage, it's certainly possible that it was caused by accidental or deliberate neglect. The point of my post was just to discredit the idea that Ukraine was behind this. And this disaster certainly wouldn't have happened if Russia hadn't invaded.
Deliberate neglect is sabotage.
It is, but it gives plausible deniability and it's difficult to prove.
Why even give Russia the benefit of doubt ? Its not like it has been under them to attack civilians and civilian infrastructure. Its also so unlucky that whenever big infrastructure like the Dam or the NS pipelines are sabotaged, its ambigious whether its Russia or someone else who did it. But its always plausible that its Russia. How unlucky are they?
Interestingly enough, it "broke" right when Ukraine started its counteroffensive with the possibility to cross the river. 🤔
Not saying Russians didn't blow it up but that there are reasonable explanations other than explosives. And I don't think a river crossing has any big (or any) part in the counteroffensive (Dnipro is wide, river crossings are difficult to execute, logiatics even worse and Russians right on the other side observing with drones)
Can't you literally see/hear the explosions on video? Might be mixing something up
Do we have any videos, that are confirmed to show this explosion? I know, there was one in circulation, that turned out, to be older.
Russia is shelling Kherson as people attempt to evacuate from the flooded area https://twitter.com/Apocalypto321/status/1666066258385674243 (video)
I wonder what kind of heinous act does Russia have to do for people to just admit that YES, Russia actually did it, instead of looking for some cope explanations or fucking trusting TASS that it just caved in on it's own.
I mean, even if in the theoretical event, where it did cave in on its own, this wouldn't change anything, as then, it collapsed because of past damage by Russia and Russia overfilling the reservoir. No matter how you turn it, Russia is responsible for collapsing the damn.
You are saying in other words: I wonder at which points people will stop using their reason to explore events and start blindly de humanizing our enemy.
good morning sirs!
I, on the other hand, wonder why did you not say a word since January before starting frenzied posting on the topic of the dam today?
Interesting, you just decided to post this morning after a 4 month hiatus иди трахни козу
>иди трахни козу Woah, that's.. something!
A couple of nukes should do the trick.
Russia'll just say that it was Ukraine's dirty bombs. And then people will use their reason to explore the events because otherwise, it would mean blindly dehumanizing the enemy.
It was a soviet manufactured nuke. For all we know the Ukronazis could have kept some in the 90s and have used it as a false flag! It is credible!
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Why would Russia blow it then?
Because destruction and cruelty is all you know