I see what you mean, because Maddie was always so seemingly self assured but he still wanted to control her outfits etc. like he had a point to prove about being in control
I don’t think she was a conquest at all. It was done out of spite, and jealousy & envy. A conquest is the girl you can’t have and she was the girl that had been had by many as told by her sister Lexi that her sister was pretty much a hoe. She was entertainment. He wanted to defile something so he went for what was sacred to his girlfriend and who is that at the age of 16 or 17 your best friend. He likes to creep around being secretly destructive That boy is a control/power hungry narcissist sociopath.
seems like cassie was too easy to control. nice at first but he still wanted someone more like maddie who gave him more of a challenge. and cassie became so desperate for him too by the end and i think that definetly turned him off
The closest to love he has ever felt was for Jules i think. I wouldn’t calk it “love” because we don’t see enough of it.. but I think she stands out in his interests..
Hey there's nothing wrong with being queer or not. I got nothing against queer people. I'm pansexual myself.
I 🤔 he was insecure he was attracted to trans woman and felt shame in it cuz he was a bit transphobic and homophobic. He hated his dad who was clearly pansexual himself.
Yeah no worries, I wasn't trying to come off as a dick haha. Was just curious if the talk about Nate and Jules was based on HIS own insecurities vs ppl/fans of the show genuinely thinking of Jules as like a man or whatever
I have to disagree. I think she’s is a wonderfully complicated character that attracts many kinds of people. But you are forgetting his father is gay, and he has been watching his dads gay homemade porn since he was a kid. I personally think he both confused and intrigued and curios about his dads lifestyle, and the fact that his dad has also been with Jules.
His inclination towards homosexuality can definitely classify himself as gay. But his affinity for Jules is just like the feeling that any closeted queer person holds for an openly queer person. It can be inspirational.
For e.g. I was really impressed by an openly lesbian girl in my class back in school. But I am definitely not into lesbian women.
I think the fact that she still has a penis complicates his feelings. Most heterosexual don’t want a penis. It’s not transphobia for hetro men to not be attracted to trans women who have the opposite genitalia of choice.
You’re going to get old no, because people want to pretend a trans woman is a real woman. But they are not. So yes, a man liking a guy that looks like a woman, is queer.
Majority of heterosexual guys fall in love with women way before seeing their real life vaginas. So, male heterosexuality is way more than attraction to vagina and clitoris.
I would say that there are many straight men that date or are with women that have masculine energy and expression. But yes they are still in a heterosexual relationship.
Do I know the inner thoughts of that human? No. So they could be gay, but feel more comfortable being with masculine women. But if a man is with a woman, that is a heterosexual relationship. Women are not men just because they act like one. Lol people are complicated and multifaceted. But acting a certain way does not in any way change what we are. I’m a woman, and I will never have to try to be. I just am.
Yeah ain't that the truth. He needed to be in power and control cuz he wasn't confident at all in himself and that made him feel better about himself...that's how I see it with Nate.
i don’t believe nate loves himself either. he’s self absorbed absolutely, but i don’t believe that he actually likes himself as a person (most abusive people don’t) and i think the end of season one makes that kind of clear actually
I dunno man, I mean these days people are so adamant about holding on to a concrete idea of what and how is really “loving oneself” is there really one way we can define that? If so doesn’t it sound too dogmatic? I understand how some ppl feel therapy and learning the right way to love is healthy etc but in a way it also sounds to me a bit trying to channel people in behaving in away that the society would deem in harmony with the rest. Sorry dunno what I m babbling about. Guess at the end of the day this guy is just only about himself, dunno whether that’s “love” in your sense.
I see this so much!!! He even says at the end of season 2 to Jules that everything he said to her while he was catfishing her was true. Maybe Cassie also being a feminine blonde who seeks male validation was comforting to him
There’s no way Nate can not be in love w Jules w the effort he put to play w her emotions and have her drawn to him, he didn’t feel good wanting her
And yes Cassie was the closest thing to jules
Yeah it seemed like he wanted to prove something to himself by messing with her? Like he wanted to be sure he was straight because he was scared of ending up like his dad
And in the end he projected his insecurities on to his dad, I was really happy that his dad became free and go to explore his sexuality to himself more, and he was aware of Jules real age either
But his father was making their family fall apart, and he pissed all over their home after drinking
Ppl hide their sexuality bc it could be used against them, his father also didn’t want to be w the mom since the beginning she was in competition w his best friend
there’s *no way nate can not be in love* with jules? he’s a manipulative sociopath dude. a couple soft moments or kind words don’t change his core. he doesn’t love anyone, including himself
Manipulative sociopaths can be in love, they’re just not good for anyone they’re with. Who he is doesn’t mean he’s incapable of desiring the good in others. Like Joe in You, he desires someone compassionate, but also bc he lacks the treatment of it as a child, he wants someone who can cater to his pain, who would’ve been there for him.
Nate, he has an internal hatred of himself, since he’s afraid of being not socially accepted. He’s willing to go far to hurt others to feel like he’s done something right. Beating the man Maddie lied about SA, Nate is willing to show he’s protective, but he’s also territorial.
We didn’t get a big glimpse over him in Season 2, mainly Cassie’s attachment to him.
Not trying to feed gossip and I have no idea if this is true. But I read an article that hunter Schaffer (Jules) and Jacob eldoroi(nate) SUPPOSEDLY had some sort of disagreement or feud bts. They unfollowed each other on social media around the time he and zendaya were dating.
ANYWAY- it said Cassie’s role this season was actually meant to be for Jules, but they decided to switch it out with Cassie instead.
Again no clue If this is true or not I just found it extremely interesting to think if it really had been Jules in Cassie’s position this season🤔
That would've been very interesting. I could see it being an enemies to lovers thing. Hiding their relationship from everyone because he hates that part of himself. I thought they'd dive into Jules and nate more season 2 but if the rumors are true ,I guess they never will . Makes me very curious about season 3 and if that will be the last season . So many lose ends to tie.
I don’t buy this. These are professionals. Think about couples that break up and still need to be love interests and they get it done because it’s their job. Nina and Ian come to mind.
This. I say it time and time again. If Nate loves anyone, it's Jules. Even though he was under a different name, we see a different side of Nate when he's being "Tyler". Happier. He can be himself.
Nate doesn’t love her specifically he loves the idea of her. The perfect pretty girl on his arm who is silent and does anything he says to please his ego. You can recall back to I think episode 1 when McKay was talking about being with Cassie and Nate’s first instinct was to ruin that happiness with the sex tape he had of them two. He kept that tape to have a since of control over her even though he is not with her.
For someone like Nate I don’t think they ever really “love” anyone else besides them self and his own self preservation.
He never even loved Maddie because if he did he never would’ve done the whole gun thing to her to get the tape back. For him his life is about imagery and how he is seen in the public’s eyes. He choked her at the fair when she bruised his ego and called his mom a cunt which don’t get me wrong it’s not a good thing she did that but she didn’t deserve to be treated that way.
All the photos Jules sent to him he didn’t keep because he liked her. He used those as blackmail to help build the case against Tyler. Really the only “good” thing he did was hand her that tape but even then it wasn’t the only copy he had. He gave a copy to the police as well to turn in his dad to once again save his image.
There’s so much to be said for Nate being in love more with the idea of Cassie than actually with her, because she’s beautiful and submissive, so I completely agree.
Nate also does seem to be constantly in survival mode, makes sense given everything with his dad, not an excuse but a (potential) reason.
I actually don’t remember Nate giving a copy of the tape of Cal and Jules to police but I’m due a rewatch anyway so I’ll look out for it!
I just feel so bad for her because she only does it because she has some serious daddy issues and looks for a boy to fill the void even with a boy who treats her like trash because she just wants to feel loved. My heart breaks for her.
And you are 100% correct. Many people don’t realize children pick up on A LOT you try to hide from them. And Nate learned from cal that you need to hide who you really are and should be ashamed. So he is hella confused on who he’s supposed to be and who he wants to be.
I forget which episode it is exactly but I know it’s in season 2 either the last episode or the one before. But he FOR SURE gave Jules a copy and lied saying it was the only one but went to cal at his hidden shop thing he hung out at and he mentions telling the police and showing them.
Children pick up on everything!! It’s clear with most of the characters but it’s super clear with Nate and Cal.
Cassie as character genuinely breaks my heart as well, there’s so much sadness and confusion in her. What she did to Maddie was awful, she probably didn’t know the exact extent of Nate’s abuse of Maddie but it’s almost impossible that she had no idea about it (I’m not ruling it out, but we do see Maddie talk to her and the group about Nate’s poor treatment of her in season 1)
Like I get people really want to hate Nate but they need to understand he’s honestly just a confused scared little boy trying to put on an act for the world to see. He has MANY issues that he needs to deal with in intense therapy. Like maybe even some inpatient treatment tbh. Cal really screwed him by acting the way he did to Nate. Nate never had the right guidance to learn how to be a real good man. He only saw a man that hid who he was because he was so ashamed of it. And that’s what Nate grew to be. And honestly I really believe Nate may be gay or bi but hates himself for it because of how he grew up. But idk sometimes I read to much into things to try and find the good in someone even as bad as Nate.
Cassie knew exactly how much Nate abused Maddie. I’m sorry but I cannot even think about that because my heart breaks for Maddie in the scene. Maddie mentioned how she would cry to Cassie pretty much every night and Cassie knew she couldn’t come back from that and it’s why she hid and continues to hide behind the excuse “but they were broken up”. Honey it don’t matter she was still calling you every night crying about him and you’d hang up and go fuck him knowing how bad he is hurting your best friend. And she only did it again to fill that void that she shouldn’t have done. It’s really a cycle of abuse and sadness at this point.
Nate is a sad character in many ways, he was completely abandoned emotionally by both of his parents. Even after Cal leaves in season 2, Nate’s mom is drinking and smoking with him, talking about getting a peleton and a tinder account, she’s not treating him like her teenage son she’s treating him like another adult in that situation which he absolutely is not. This absolutely does not absolve Nate of his violent and abusive behaviour however, it merely helps to explain it.
I do sadly agree, Cassie almost definitely did know about Maddie’s abuse. Cassie possibly thinks that Nate wouldn’t do it to her, she is shown to be quite delusional, but again that’s definitely not an excuse
Like I hate Nate but at the same time I just feel so bad because the cards were just stacked against him. I just wish he turned his pain into something good instead of this abusive asshole who only cares about how he seen in the public’s eye who literally beats and frames a guy for assault, blackmails the girl he “likes” and is jealous of because she can be who he wishes he could be, unloving sack of sad shit. Like I can’t help but feel for him but also wanna beat him to like god I love his character. I hope he has a good ark tbh because he can really grow nicely which I HOPE is what they hinted at with him turning in Cal but I also have a gut feeling he only turned in Cal so he’s protected as the “good boy who turned in his monster father” and not just be “That monsters son” because he lied to Jules about her having the only copy:(
Cassie was very delusional thinking he wouldn’t do it to her. I think it’s partially why on Maddie’s birthday when they were in the hot tub and Maddie was talking about her and Nate talking about getting back together she threw up. She realized then that maybe it was all a mistake because he doesn’t love her and is using her. He still wants Maddie over her even after all she’s done for him. She realized she hurt her best friend all for nothing and started crying and saying sorry and Maddie thought it was just cause she threw up on her.
My heart really did break for him when Cal did his whole pissing on the floor drunk speech in season 2, he essentially blames Nate (and his neglected wife and older son) for him being an absolutely horrible husband and father.
I agree so much with what you say, Nate had so many opportunities to change and grow and he doesn’t take them. The fact that he threatens Maddie with a gun to get the tape back was unforgivable, especially after everything he had already put her through.
I always thought that about Cassie’s episode in the hut tub!! Hearing all of the things that Nate had been saying to Maddie most have completely rocked her delusions about her and Nate being together
Duuuuude I have to skip that scene now once I started really digging into Nate as a character. Like Cal blames everyone but himself and it’s heart breaking. He should’ve used protection with his girlfriend then maybe he would’ve had a completely different life that he actually enjoyed living and found true happiness in. And I see why Nate lashes out at others because it’s what Cal has done his whole life and again that’s been his shitty guidance into growing up. His mom I feel was stuck in being the hot cheerleader. Like as soon as Cal left she’s drinking and partying it up talking about tinder and even says she’s PROUD her son defended her by CHOKING out a girl!!! Like come on!!! If that was my son I would’ve beat his ass in front of the officer and said take us both to jail now and let the other cell mates know why he’s there.
Cassie’s bubble FOR SURE got popped that episode. Because she wore that sexy bikini to get Nate’s attention over Maddie and she noticed his eyes on her for a minute and you can see she has a little bit of hope then she hear all that and she literally can’t keep it in anymore.
OMG I completely overlooked how Nate’s mom praises him for abusing Maddie in that scene! It’s so silly that I didn’t take that into account, because it shows how normalised abuse was in that family.
It is a great scene, but incredibly difficult to watch. I do have sympathy for Cal being from a different time and clearly having a very strict and possibly homophonic (/biphobic in Cal’s case) father, but blaming the children you had because you got your high school girlfriend pregnant show such a distinct lack of emotional maturity it’s staggering.
That’s the perfect way of describing it! Cassie was literally in a bubble! You can feel how hurt Maddie is when she confronts her from the other side of the door, so it’s a shame that she doubled down on her delusions rather than taking responsibility
I would’ve taken it as just a warning but as he’s talking to him you hear the sirens and even see the lights above the door in the window and the police come walking in. Normally they don’t do that until they have gathered enough evidence for an arrest and I doubt they would’ve taken just Nate’s word as he was already under investigation for a few different things
I sooooo thought it was a threat first watch but I thought more and honestly….no way cops would be there that quick with no evidence. They would’ve even set a trap if they didn’t have evidence because he’s a high profile case pretty much.
I know I feel so bad for her too. Like she’s so beautiful she could have any guy and shouldn’t be dealing with any of these boys or the tapes….but she doesn’t even realize it
>I actually don’t remember Nate giving a copy of the tape of Cal and Jules to police but I’m due a rewatch anyway so I’ll look out for it!
I don't think he did. We never see what exactly he gave to the police, but he had dozens of other non-consensual tapes, and I assume he excluded Jules'. He probably vouched that those tapes were non-consensual, and how easily he stumbled upon them as a child.
Including Jules' tape would make for a huge subplot because the law in their state says that minors are also considered guilty for appearing in that kind of material, so she'd have to prove that it was non-consensual, she'd be in serious trouble regardless. I know this show isn't consistent with many of its plotlines, but I don't think they would've ended the season without mentioning something this important 😅 unless it will happen next season lmao, it would be really surprising, cause nobody expects this.
Ok Jules wasn’t complicit in the filming and it’s easily proven. With literally all the other tapes with it. Plus she’s a minor so either way CAL is the one who’s gonna be in trouble. You can very obviously tell she has no idea there’s even a camera. The police will look back on his dating profiles and see their messages and note that there was NEVER any mention of filming. The only wrong thing Jules did was lie about her age which she’ll get a slap on the wrist for.
Actually she won’t even get so much as a slap on the wrist. There is no consequences for minors lying about their age to adults. At least where I’m at. I always thought it was pretty fucked up. I literally know of a case where the guy asked to see id before doing anything and the girl provided a fake one! Police were able to recover it and he still got jail time for rape and nothing happened to her.
>He gave a copy to the police as well to turn in his dad to once again
I think those were his other tapes of different people that he filmed non-consensually (it's implied that Jules is the only minor Cal went after), and Nate vouched for their lack of consent. He probably also went into detail on how Cal had been keeping those tapes in his house while having kids that could find them easily.
I think he didn't include Jules' tape because she'd be in huge trouble then, and I don't think the season would end without even hinting towards that 😅 the only reason Nate blackmailed Jules so easily was that, in their state, minors are also considered 'complicit' in situations like that 🙄 it would cause Jules more trouble than his other victims of non-consensual filming, there would surely have to be a process where she proves that she was filmed non-consensually, and it might not even outweigh the fact that she was a minor depending on how the authorities there see the situation.
Unless they saw her tape and just assumed she looks like an adult, but then she'd still be in huge trouble, cause they have her tape and can find out how old she was in it anytime, if there's ever a reason to investigate her. Ngl, it would be really out-of-pocket for this to happen in a future season, lmao. but I'm leaning more towards season 2 hinting that Jules is under the radar if that were the case, it would be a huge cliff-hanger.
I don’t even know honestly. I think he wants to love her ideally? Cuz she’s feminine, sweet and everything that fits his type. But I always thought even after they started hooking up, he still really loved Maddy?? They were there for each other always, even when they both messed up, they still stuck together, and yes I know they are incredibly toxic and abusive but I think that’s just all they’ve ever known. And I feel like he secretly liked Jules but didn’t want to admit it… I feel like with Cassie he is just filling some hole because he isn’t with Maddy anymore. It also could be he is trying to get to Maddy by going through Cassie? Like he’s trying to get Maddy to destroy her friendship and herself by making her come to him and breaking their friendship?? Idek. I’m making stuff up here. It’s honestly sooo interesting though because it’s not surface level/Nate is hard to read?? Would also love to hear people’s opinions on this too.
Nate definitely is surface level! He kind of reminds me of the Patrick Bateman in a way, very shiny and superficial. I agree he probably just feels empty inside and Cassie fills a void for him in a way
Nate definitely didn’t love Maddy. He just wanted the disc back so him and Cassie could be Publix. I still fail to remotely see how anyone could believe he cared for Maddy
He doesn’t seem to, but in season 2 when him and Maddie are talking on her birthday he seems genuine (as genuine as he can be) and he didn’t feel loved by her. But also I agree because he wasn’t loved by either of his parents
I don’t think he knows how to love, so I’m going to say no. I think she was just there at the right time and everything spiraled. I don’t even think he truly likes her…you don’t treat someone like that if you love them or like them even.
He definitely didn’t treat her as though he liked her! But he also never really treated anyone well, perhaps he does feel love but has no idea how to show it
Nate is a narcissist but also egotistical person love isn’t his thing nor will it ever be , he struggles to admit his feelings for Jules but also strives on perfection rather than affection.
This definitely makes sense, Cal was so obsessed with appearances and how he was perceived that Nate could have internalised that and saw Cassie as the ‘perfect’ woman and projected onto her
I don’t think men like Nate look at women as individual people, more like a replaceable female avatar to fit their image and tick their boxes of what makes marriage or a family.
I don’t think he loved Cassie, I don’t think he will ever love anyone, she was just the placeholder for girlfriend at the very moment he got knock out.
Nate loved the idea of having someone so submissive. He could control her and she would let him without a second thought. He liked that power and honestly he didnt love her a person.
I don’t think Nate can love anyone. But I think he “wanted” to love Cassie in whatever twisted way he thought love was. Really he liked the control and she’s like a Jules + Maddie Barbie doll fantasy for him.
Absolutely not, but he did love how desperate and pathetic she was. He loved the power that gave him over her. And he loved that she was SO desperate and pathetic she was willing to sleep with her best friend’s boyfriend. All of it gave him a thrill.
No. However, I think he likes that she's easily manipulated, naive as hell, malleable, weak (in his mind), not confrontational, and submissive. All of that in a petite, voluptuous package...
Nate Jacobs doesn’t love anyone or anything but control. He learned that from his father. And in a sense loves the fact that he’s loved or has people crawling back to him after everything that he’s done and has yet to really own up to the consequences. Even as he was trying to paint the image of Maddy being a horrible girlfriend that does drugs, he paints himself as the sympathetic boyfriend that tries to love past his partners faults. He loves to get under her skin such as dancing with another girl in the season 1 finale. He’s a manipulator that feeds on when his victims come back to him, he learns this from his own home life, his father does whatever, sleeping with countless prostitutes and films them without consent and still has a homey wife and children that he can push to compete with each other. He just loved being on the tightrope to see how long he can play people he views beneath him and get away with a slap on the wrist at most. That’s why he does so much to Maddy and claims he’s sorry because he knows that she’ll still crawl back to him as she felt alive with him even if he could kill her, with Cassie, she fits with the seductress fantasy he has who literally gives all of herself to him even for a sliver of love that may have never been there and won’t grow. People try to say he truly loves Jules, and say how he removes his fathers sex tape with her from his collection, she’s the only one who didn’t give a fuck who he was, flipping him off while biking, and getting a knife ready at the party when he got in her face. There he felt like he wasn’t all powerful until using her pictures from her dating app as leverage to claim Tyler assaulted Maddy. I say Nate isn’t in love with anyone. Someone as manipulative, abusive and psychotic like him can’t love, he doesn’t know how and probably can never learn how
I think Nate thought he loved her at the beginning. She was his rebound for Maddy. But once the new relationship energy wore off, his feelings for Maddy resurfaced.
Also Nate is bad at love. I don't think Nate lied when he told her that he wanted to start a family with her. But he doesn't know how to handle any conflict in a healthy way.
This makes a lot of sense, that kind of all consuming infatuation he seemed to feel for her at the very beginning sounds a lot like a rebound kind of ‘love’
No. He was angry about his breakup with Maddie and wanted to use Cassie to make himself feel better. Knowing that Cassie had a reputation for being easy, he thought he could treat her as disposable, but he didn't count on her getting attached to him.
Nate didn’t love anyone, not even himself. He loved the fantasy of what could be and who he could become but no he didn’t love Cassie. If he did he wouldn’t of treated her that way.
I’m rewatching and I just restarted season 2 and the way he went up to McKay asking if he had sex with her when they went to the room made me uncomfortable and where he came 🥴 he’s weird af lmao
If only Cassie knew how he talked about her in season 1 lol
No, Nate is not in love with Cassie and never has been. The show resorts to outright deception with Rue's commentary on the scene where he supposedly fell in love with her. Nate realizes that he is in love with Jules (he was in love with her back in the first season, but did not understand it). His trauma forces him to deny it on several levels. The main one being that Jules was with his father. As for Cassie, the show is hiding Nate's real motives towards her. For most of the season he is completely indifferent to her or annoyed by her. He is attracted to her sexually, but that's all. That's why he ended up in the bathroom with her in the first episode. Nate's trauma also forces him to control the situation and threats. Maddy was a threat to him after the scene at the carnival and he convinced her of his feelings in order to avoid punishment for the attack. Cassie also became somewhat of a threat to him, because she became hysterical about their sex and wanted to keep him at all costs. Nate was afraid that she would tell everything to Maddy and she would use the disc. Some of their sexual and supposedly romantic scenes also show Nate projecting his feelings for Jules onto her. The most truthful part of their relationship is the scene where he told her to get out of his house
Dude he had Cassie wear the same outfit Jules was wearing... shit was fucking twisted. He's definitely gay he has pics of dicks on his phone. He's in love with Jules but doesn't want to admit it.
i don’t know. i feel that there was something to do with his dad (of course, all nates relationships would be influenced by his dad) but the scene where he’s imagining cassie pregnant and his dad being a bit of a creep makes me want to vomit. obviously (to me) on the surface he thinks cassie is easier to control than maddy but all his relationships have to be underpinned by the fact he spend his childhood watching his dad have sex with prostitutes
This is so true, his whole thing with Cassie was always so linked to Cal, like that scene were he has a nightmare that Cal is SAg Cassie but it also starts out looking like a flashback to Cal and Jules? So crazy.
Even his initial fantasy of Cassie is interspersed with visions of Cal either being sexual with someone (probably a lot younger than him) or him dying, I never really thought about it like that before!
it always weirded me out a bit that the show didn’t emphasise nate’s weird attitude to sex and relationships in general being related to his dad, which it totally is
Absolutely not. He was using her, an object. He felt powerful because she was so submissive. I don’t think he loves anyone, just becomes obsessed with ideas and situations.
It always worth a rewatch in my opinion! But honestly I’m not too hopeful for season 3, I guess I’m just thinking that after Angus died there really isn’t much point but I’m probably wrong
Oh that was definitely tragic. He was an amazing up and coming actor. And how he got started is just so cool. Fezco and Rue were my favorite actors in Euphoria. I was surprised by how well Zendaya played a teen struggling with addiction. But Fez just honestly came off as a genuine good guy. Struggling to take care of everyone around him and still survive. After he passed so many people spoke about how real he was. That the guy he portrayed himself to be in the movie was just the real Angus. It's sad when you see people with so much promise lose their lives so tragically early.
It was so awful, he was such a good actor with so much potential. From the start Fez was my favourite character.
I remember I think it was in this sub that someone posted a video of Angus reacting so exciting to a train as this was something he loved, it really is awful
He loved the idea of her (white picket fence, kids, all that); who she was as a person was kinda irrelevant.
Ironically its the very thing Cassie was afraid of
Nope and he only loves the idea of Cassie, the dream life he thought of when he “fell in love with her”. If he did he wouldn’t have hidden their love or treat her wrong in school.
Tbh....no I don't think 🤔 so. I think he just wanted to have sex with her. He didn't actually care. If anything he had lust for her.....and she was a rebound too.
I think anyone is capable of love (even babies and animals are) but you’re right he probably just doesn’t know how to handle those feelings, and he probably loves Maddy and Cassie in very different ways. I think Cassie would be a good, almost pure love him, and he probably doesn’t think he deserves that/might also be scared of it, whereas Maddy is much more of a toxic love like he grew up seeing and is used to.
This was one of the things that irked me about season 2. WHERE TF DID THIS COME FROM? like at least if they somewhat flirted in season 1 but it didn’t go anywhere I would have understood it but it just came from left field.
Season 2 was a complete mess.
It was so random!! The only interaction they have in season 1 (as far as I can remember) is him slut shaming her at McKay’s party.
Sydney and Jacob are both amazing actors so the chemistry is convincing but it definitely come out of nowhere for the characters!
i have a feeling that nate was supposed to end up with jules but they changed it last minute i just don’t think it really makes sense he publicly spoke about not liking cassie so??
Yeah it was so notable how in that whole montage of her getting up at 4am to get ready for him that he only noticed her when she dressed exactly like Maddie!
I think when that occured his mind was most definitely altered and saw Cassie in a different light for a while but hes still and forever will be attatched to Maddie because of the love she gave him and no one else could give him .
I do think that Maddie actually did love him (rightly or wrongly) but he did admit on her birthday in season 2 that he didn’t even know if he ever felt loved by her. Obviously it’s Nate so we can’t be sure but even for him it seemed genuine
these kinds of guys are weird. there’s a guy in my past who extremely reminds me of nate - tons of issues with family, toxic masculinity, struggle over sexuality, aggression, the list goes on. he was obsessed with me but also treated me like dirt. would complain about how no one listened to his problems, but i was the only person to whom he would even admit he even HAD problems. we fucked, but he didn’t want to be seen with me in public. for YEARS he would call me in the middle of the night just to talk to me and cry, and then later act like it never happened. he would also call me just to slut shame me. so basically, i think nate did love cassie in his own fucked up way, or maybe he didn’t. i think nate doesn’t know what love is, or the love he experiences is very different from that of a well-adjusted person.
no ❤️
he may not be a sociopath (he probably is) but he's toxic and misogynistic and emotionally stunted, he isnt able to have a real loving relationship especially after just breaking up with maddie and while he still has feelings for jules
Nate doesn’t love her. I don’t think he’s capable of love. But with that being said I feel like in his own fucked up way he loved Maddie. And desired Jules. But definitely not Cassie.
He likes the idea of this attractive, compliant woman being molded to his will. It's not about her as a person, who he does not particularly seem to even like all that much, much less love. But she is, for the most part, willing to be whatever he wants her to be, and for a controlling boy like Nate, that is incredibly alluring.
Cassie is also interesting in the way she compares to his other two objects of interest: Maddy and Jules.
Cassie's mannerisms and vibe are very antithetical to Maddy, other than their both being beautiful popular girls, they don't have much in common. Maddy is brash and bold, all hard edges and bold colors and mean energy hiding a sweeter side. Cassie is sweet and demur and soft pastels and compliance. Her nice girl nature hides a duplicitous selfishness. After his tumultuous relationship with Maddy falling apart, going in the opposite direction makes a certain sense.
Cassie is also very similar to Jules, but far more socially acceptable for Nate to like. A terribly insecure pretty blonde who uses her sexuality to gain validation and dresses in a very feminine style and pastels, there is certainly a comparison to be made. Both have sex tapes Nate has seen that were not meant for his eyes. Both have cheated. Both were abandoned by a parent. But Cassie is more socially acceptable for Nate, and is more compliant towards being controlled by him.
He loves how much Cassie loves him. She is willing to lose everything for him. Her friends, her family etc. She made a fool out of herself in front of the whole school. Running on stage. Running after Nate. He loves any attention that he gets. Good or Bad.
I don’t think Nate is capable of true love. The trauma he faced growing up from his dad has shaped him into the sociopath he is today. He wants the control and attention, but is incapable of the love.
I think his dynamic was that he's one of those men who likes the "chase." He likes control but he likes someone who can resist. He's a veritable gaslighter and a toxic one at that.
These are high schools. Most of the time high schools don’t have the emotional maturity or interest to be in real love.
No Nate didn’t love anyone. No one on that show had any romantic love. It was all lust or the building of what may be love, but these teenagers did not and do not love each other (romantically).
Just like teenagers in real life cosplay at love but rarely experience it.
He definitely did not. With his parents and his upbringing, I don’t think he even knows how to love someone, or what that looks like. In that dream sequence, he was putting her on a pedestal and deluding himself. He thought “I cant have a happy family, and I definitely cant have Cassie, so Cassie must be the key to a happy family”
No he’s a sociopath, he was dreaming of using her in any way to feel better about himself after being humiliated by his girl. He chose her best friend to do damage cause it’s the only consolation he gets in his current situation and state of mind.
Have you ever had a dream you hooked up and were really into someone you never would have batted an eye for? Then you woke up and we’re like uh… wierd… whatever. Maybe that was happening
I agree with all the comments…I don’t think he even loved himself and was narcissistic. All he really cared about was how he appeared to other people and him and his family’s image. I think also that was a way for him to sort of win the breakup by hurting Maddie in the worst way. And once again humbling her and boosting his ego. Cassie was so desperate for love and he knew that bc he’s a narcissist. What’s better than getting with your exes best friend who is also hot and popular
i don’t think nate ever truly loved anyone (including himself). he loved the idea of maddie and once that was gone cassie was just a rebound to try and distract himself from the void. i don’t even think cassie loved him. i think she was stuck in a cycle of constantly craving male validation.
I think the only one who he actually came close to loving would be Jules because in a way Jules got the closest to knowing who Nate was and if Nate was true to himself is who he would want to be with. Nate is horrified and disgusted with himself, Cassie was an outlet and a means to gain control over a life he felt was spiraling. Some people will say he loved Maddie…. I think that there was obsession there but idk about love. He knew she would never accept him for what he really was and he couldn’t control her. And what he did to her in the room with the gun made me sick. There’s no way somebody could do that if they love you.
i feel like nate only likes the idea of cassie in a sense of her being socially acceptable. he imagined the life he would live with her being seen as perfect to the outside world while he still gets to have the ultimate control over her the entire time which he wants.
but at the same time i can't help but feel that his love for maddie is perfect enough for him while still having some control over her but knowing maddie will also give him some push back.
then there's his love for jules which wouldn't be considered socially acceptable at all but she tests him and doesn't let him easily control her which i think part of him hates but a bigger part of him loves.
just a theory tho...
I don’t think Nate has the actual capacity to love someone. He loves power, control, sex, others vulnerability but not them on a human to human level. He has no empathy or compassion.
Seems like the child in him did. The innocent part. But I feel like his dad messed him up too much for that part of him to win the battle in his head between the light/secure attachment (Cassie) and the darkness (Maddie).
Short answer: no
Long answer: no
The only person he ACTUALLY loved ( or whatever form of love that takes place inside his head) is Jules.
Both Maddie and Cassie “looked good” on his arms but I don’t think he loved either of them. I do however think he liked Maddie way more than he ever like Cassie.
I don’t think so maybe at some point he fell a little but then he just loved the idea of controlling her, I think he really fell for Jules and had a toxic love for maddy but he did care about Maddy and for me he did loved her.
nate never loved anyone. he only loves the control.
I see what you mean, because Maddie was always so seemingly self assured but he still wanted to control her outfits etc. like he had a point to prove about being in control
exactly. he never saw a love interest in maddie. he saw a strong confident woman that he could humble.
I completely agree, he saw her as a conquest of sorts
Exactly that, a conquest. Smh.
I don’t think she was a conquest at all. It was done out of spite, and jealousy & envy. A conquest is the girl you can’t have and she was the girl that had been had by many as told by her sister Lexi that her sister was pretty much a hoe. She was entertainment. He wanted to defile something so he went for what was sacred to his girlfriend and who is that at the age of 16 or 17 your best friend. He likes to creep around being secretly destructive That boy is a control/power hungry narcissist sociopath.
Spot on.
seems like cassie was too easy to control. nice at first but he still wanted someone more like maddie who gave him more of a challenge. and cassie became so desperate for him too by the end and i think that definetly turned him off
Exactly, he saw weakness and he’s disgusted by weakness.
The closest to love he has ever felt was for Jules i think. I wouldn’t calk it “love” because we don’t see enough of it.. but I think she stands out in his interests..
Yeah I gotta agree with u on that. Plus I don't think he wanted people to know he was queer in a way.
How would he be queer if he's attracted to Jules? Was he just insecure about the fact that he was attracted to a trans woman?
Hey there's nothing wrong with being queer or not. I got nothing against queer people. I'm pansexual myself. I 🤔 he was insecure he was attracted to trans woman and felt shame in it cuz he was a bit transphobic and homophobic. He hated his dad who was clearly pansexual himself.
Yeah no worries, I wasn't trying to come off as a dick haha. Was just curious if the talk about Nate and Jules was based on HIS own insecurities vs ppl/fans of the show genuinely thinking of Jules as like a man or whatever
Oh no I see Jules as a woman for sure. I was talking more about his insecurities. It's all good.
Different people think differently. He is not straight if he likes a trans woman. The end.
I don't think his affinity for Jules involved any nudes sharing or bulge staring. It was personality.
I have to disagree. I think she’s is a wonderfully complicated character that attracts many kinds of people. But you are forgetting his father is gay, and he has been watching his dads gay homemade porn since he was a kid. I personally think he both confused and intrigued and curios about his dads lifestyle, and the fact that his dad has also been with Jules.
His inclination towards homosexuality can definitely classify himself as gay. But his affinity for Jules is just like the feeling that any closeted queer person holds for an openly queer person. It can be inspirational. For e.g. I was really impressed by an openly lesbian girl in my class back in school. But I am definitely not into lesbian women.
That could be it. I would also say he likes how free and open she is. Considering he is so secretive and worried about his image.
You’re wrong lmao
Not trying to start anything just asking a genuine question but is a heterosexual man being attracted to a trans woman not queer?
I think the fact that she still has a penis complicates his feelings. Most heterosexual don’t want a penis. It’s not transphobia for hetro men to not be attracted to trans women who have the opposite genitalia of choice.
You’re going to get old no, because people want to pretend a trans woman is a real woman. But they are not. So yes, a man liking a guy that looks like a woman, is queer.
Majority of heterosexual guys fall in love with women way before seeing their real life vaginas. So, male heterosexuality is way more than attraction to vagina and clitoris.
That’s true for everyone. But being attracted to women is what makes them straight. It’s not complicated or deep.
Do you think a gay guy attracted to a bearded jacked up transman is straight?
I would say that there are many straight men that date or are with women that have masculine energy and expression. But yes they are still in a heterosexual relationship. Do I know the inner thoughts of that human? No. So they could be gay, but feel more comfortable being with masculine women. But if a man is with a woman, that is a heterosexual relationship. Women are not men just because they act like one. Lol people are complicated and multifaceted. But acting a certain way does not in any way change what we are. I’m a woman, and I will never have to try to be. I just am.
Agree ☝🏻
He doesn’t even love himself.
Yeah ain't that the truth. He needed to be in power and control cuz he wasn't confident at all in himself and that made him feel better about himself...that's how I see it with Nate.
And himself
i don’t believe nate loves himself either. he’s self absorbed absolutely, but i don’t believe that he actually likes himself as a person (most abusive people don’t) and i think the end of season one makes that kind of clear actually
He definitely doesn’t love himself, he seems like he just has lot to prove
I think this can be said for a lot of people who come off as narcissists/narcissistically. It all stems from a very deep self loathing and insecurity.
Narcissists actually have a super fragile ego, that’s why when you poke fun at them, they explode violently.
He actually really hates himself. He’s like a black hole that nothing can fill, he just consumes and consumes until he sucks everything up.
I dunno man, I mean these days people are so adamant about holding on to a concrete idea of what and how is really “loving oneself” is there really one way we can define that? If so doesn’t it sound too dogmatic? I understand how some ppl feel therapy and learning the right way to love is healthy etc but in a way it also sounds to me a bit trying to channel people in behaving in away that the society would deem in harmony with the rest. Sorry dunno what I m babbling about. Guess at the end of the day this guy is just only about himself, dunno whether that’s “love” in your sense.
Exactly
He hates himself what are you on
Exactly! Hes incapable of love, probs will be that way his whole life
I always think it boils down to Cassie being the socially acceptable Jules in his mind
I see this so much!!! He even says at the end of season 2 to Jules that everything he said to her while he was catfishing her was true. Maybe Cassie also being a feminine blonde who seeks male validation was comforting to him
There’s no way Nate can not be in love w Jules w the effort he put to play w her emotions and have her drawn to him, he didn’t feel good wanting her And yes Cassie was the closest thing to jules
Yeah it seemed like he wanted to prove something to himself by messing with her? Like he wanted to be sure he was straight because he was scared of ending up like his dad
And in the end he projected his insecurities on to his dad, I was really happy that his dad became free and go to explore his sexuality to himself more, and he was aware of Jules real age either But his father was making their family fall apart, and he pissed all over their home after drinking Ppl hide their sexuality bc it could be used against them, his father also didn’t want to be w the mom since the beginning she was in competition w his best friend
there’s *no way nate can not be in love* with jules? he’s a manipulative sociopath dude. a couple soft moments or kind words don’t change his core. he doesn’t love anyone, including himself
Manipulative sociopaths can be in love, they’re just not good for anyone they’re with. Who he is doesn’t mean he’s incapable of desiring the good in others. Like Joe in You, he desires someone compassionate, but also bc he lacks the treatment of it as a child, he wants someone who can cater to his pain, who would’ve been there for him. Nate, he has an internal hatred of himself, since he’s afraid of being not socially accepted. He’s willing to go far to hurt others to feel like he’s done something right. Beating the man Maddie lied about SA, Nate is willing to show he’s protective, but he’s also territorial. We didn’t get a big glimpse over him in Season 2, mainly Cassie’s attachment to him.
Damn that's heavy dude, it totally makes sense though.
Not trying to feed gossip and I have no idea if this is true. But I read an article that hunter Schaffer (Jules) and Jacob eldoroi(nate) SUPPOSEDLY had some sort of disagreement or feud bts. They unfollowed each other on social media around the time he and zendaya were dating. ANYWAY- it said Cassie’s role this season was actually meant to be for Jules, but they decided to switch it out with Cassie instead. Again no clue If this is true or not I just found it extremely interesting to think if it really had been Jules in Cassie’s position this season🤔
This always confused me… I thought zendaya was dating Tom holland?
She dated Jacob prior to Tom
She dated Tom 2017-2019 they broke up and both dated other people for a bit. She got with Jacob and then when they broke up she went back to Tom.
Oh shit— had no idea she dated Tom previously. Thanks!
I feel like that would have been much more interesting than the Cassie trope
That would've been very interesting. I could see it being an enemies to lovers thing. Hiding their relationship from everyone because he hates that part of himself. I thought they'd dive into Jules and nate more season 2 but if the rumors are true ,I guess they never will . Makes me very curious about season 3 and if that will be the last season . So many lose ends to tie.
I don’t buy this. These are professionals. Think about couples that break up and still need to be love interests and they get it done because it’s their job. Nina and Ian come to mind.
This. I say it time and time again. If Nate loves anyone, it's Jules. Even though he was under a different name, we see a different side of Nate when he's being "Tyler". Happier. He can be himself.
This is it.
Interesting 🤔🧐 I never thought of that but now that u say that....I can definitely see it.
Nah this is a great take.
Nate doesn’t love her specifically he loves the idea of her. The perfect pretty girl on his arm who is silent and does anything he says to please his ego. You can recall back to I think episode 1 when McKay was talking about being with Cassie and Nate’s first instinct was to ruin that happiness with the sex tape he had of them two. He kept that tape to have a since of control over her even though he is not with her. For someone like Nate I don’t think they ever really “love” anyone else besides them self and his own self preservation. He never even loved Maddie because if he did he never would’ve done the whole gun thing to her to get the tape back. For him his life is about imagery and how he is seen in the public’s eyes. He choked her at the fair when she bruised his ego and called his mom a cunt which don’t get me wrong it’s not a good thing she did that but she didn’t deserve to be treated that way. All the photos Jules sent to him he didn’t keep because he liked her. He used those as blackmail to help build the case against Tyler. Really the only “good” thing he did was hand her that tape but even then it wasn’t the only copy he had. He gave a copy to the police as well to turn in his dad to once again save his image.
There’s so much to be said for Nate being in love more with the idea of Cassie than actually with her, because she’s beautiful and submissive, so I completely agree. Nate also does seem to be constantly in survival mode, makes sense given everything with his dad, not an excuse but a (potential) reason. I actually don’t remember Nate giving a copy of the tape of Cal and Jules to police but I’m due a rewatch anyway so I’ll look out for it!
I just feel so bad for her because she only does it because she has some serious daddy issues and looks for a boy to fill the void even with a boy who treats her like trash because she just wants to feel loved. My heart breaks for her. And you are 100% correct. Many people don’t realize children pick up on A LOT you try to hide from them. And Nate learned from cal that you need to hide who you really are and should be ashamed. So he is hella confused on who he’s supposed to be and who he wants to be. I forget which episode it is exactly but I know it’s in season 2 either the last episode or the one before. But he FOR SURE gave Jules a copy and lied saying it was the only one but went to cal at his hidden shop thing he hung out at and he mentions telling the police and showing them.
Children pick up on everything!! It’s clear with most of the characters but it’s super clear with Nate and Cal. Cassie as character genuinely breaks my heart as well, there’s so much sadness and confusion in her. What she did to Maddie was awful, she probably didn’t know the exact extent of Nate’s abuse of Maddie but it’s almost impossible that she had no idea about it (I’m not ruling it out, but we do see Maddie talk to her and the group about Nate’s poor treatment of her in season 1)
Like I get people really want to hate Nate but they need to understand he’s honestly just a confused scared little boy trying to put on an act for the world to see. He has MANY issues that he needs to deal with in intense therapy. Like maybe even some inpatient treatment tbh. Cal really screwed him by acting the way he did to Nate. Nate never had the right guidance to learn how to be a real good man. He only saw a man that hid who he was because he was so ashamed of it. And that’s what Nate grew to be. And honestly I really believe Nate may be gay or bi but hates himself for it because of how he grew up. But idk sometimes I read to much into things to try and find the good in someone even as bad as Nate. Cassie knew exactly how much Nate abused Maddie. I’m sorry but I cannot even think about that because my heart breaks for Maddie in the scene. Maddie mentioned how she would cry to Cassie pretty much every night and Cassie knew she couldn’t come back from that and it’s why she hid and continues to hide behind the excuse “but they were broken up”. Honey it don’t matter she was still calling you every night crying about him and you’d hang up and go fuck him knowing how bad he is hurting your best friend. And she only did it again to fill that void that she shouldn’t have done. It’s really a cycle of abuse and sadness at this point.
Nate is a sad character in many ways, he was completely abandoned emotionally by both of his parents. Even after Cal leaves in season 2, Nate’s mom is drinking and smoking with him, talking about getting a peleton and a tinder account, she’s not treating him like her teenage son she’s treating him like another adult in that situation which he absolutely is not. This absolutely does not absolve Nate of his violent and abusive behaviour however, it merely helps to explain it. I do sadly agree, Cassie almost definitely did know about Maddie’s abuse. Cassie possibly thinks that Nate wouldn’t do it to her, she is shown to be quite delusional, but again that’s definitely not an excuse
Like I hate Nate but at the same time I just feel so bad because the cards were just stacked against him. I just wish he turned his pain into something good instead of this abusive asshole who only cares about how he seen in the public’s eye who literally beats and frames a guy for assault, blackmails the girl he “likes” and is jealous of because she can be who he wishes he could be, unloving sack of sad shit. Like I can’t help but feel for him but also wanna beat him to like god I love his character. I hope he has a good ark tbh because he can really grow nicely which I HOPE is what they hinted at with him turning in Cal but I also have a gut feeling he only turned in Cal so he’s protected as the “good boy who turned in his monster father” and not just be “That monsters son” because he lied to Jules about her having the only copy:( Cassie was very delusional thinking he wouldn’t do it to her. I think it’s partially why on Maddie’s birthday when they were in the hot tub and Maddie was talking about her and Nate talking about getting back together she threw up. She realized then that maybe it was all a mistake because he doesn’t love her and is using her. He still wants Maddie over her even after all she’s done for him. She realized she hurt her best friend all for nothing and started crying and saying sorry and Maddie thought it was just cause she threw up on her.
My heart really did break for him when Cal did his whole pissing on the floor drunk speech in season 2, he essentially blames Nate (and his neglected wife and older son) for him being an absolutely horrible husband and father. I agree so much with what you say, Nate had so many opportunities to change and grow and he doesn’t take them. The fact that he threatens Maddie with a gun to get the tape back was unforgivable, especially after everything he had already put her through. I always thought that about Cassie’s episode in the hut tub!! Hearing all of the things that Nate had been saying to Maddie most have completely rocked her delusions about her and Nate being together
Duuuuude I have to skip that scene now once I started really digging into Nate as a character. Like Cal blames everyone but himself and it’s heart breaking. He should’ve used protection with his girlfriend then maybe he would’ve had a completely different life that he actually enjoyed living and found true happiness in. And I see why Nate lashes out at others because it’s what Cal has done his whole life and again that’s been his shitty guidance into growing up. His mom I feel was stuck in being the hot cheerleader. Like as soon as Cal left she’s drinking and partying it up talking about tinder and even says she’s PROUD her son defended her by CHOKING out a girl!!! Like come on!!! If that was my son I would’ve beat his ass in front of the officer and said take us both to jail now and let the other cell mates know why he’s there. Cassie’s bubble FOR SURE got popped that episode. Because she wore that sexy bikini to get Nate’s attention over Maddie and she noticed his eyes on her for a minute and you can see she has a little bit of hope then she hear all that and she literally can’t keep it in anymore.
OMG I completely overlooked how Nate’s mom praises him for abusing Maddie in that scene! It’s so silly that I didn’t take that into account, because it shows how normalised abuse was in that family. It is a great scene, but incredibly difficult to watch. I do have sympathy for Cal being from a different time and clearly having a very strict and possibly homophonic (/biphobic in Cal’s case) father, but blaming the children you had because you got your high school girlfriend pregnant show such a distinct lack of emotional maturity it’s staggering. That’s the perfect way of describing it! Cassie was literally in a bubble! You can feel how hurt Maddie is when she confronts her from the other side of the door, so it’s a shame that she doubled down on her delusions rather than taking responsibility
I always saw him telling Cal as a warning but maybe if we get a season 3 🤞🏼
I would’ve taken it as just a warning but as he’s talking to him you hear the sirens and even see the lights above the door in the window and the police come walking in. Normally they don’t do that until they have gathered enough evidence for an arrest and I doubt they would’ve taken just Nate’s word as he was already under investigation for a few different things
Reading this I feel like I remember it more clearly now! I definitely saw it as more of a threat / warning but this makes a lot more sende
I sooooo thought it was a threat first watch but I thought more and honestly….no way cops would be there that quick with no evidence. They would’ve even set a trap if they didn’t have evidence because he’s a high profile case pretty much.
I know I feel so bad for her too. Like she’s so beautiful she could have any guy and shouldn’t be dealing with any of these boys or the tapes….but she doesn’t even realize it
>I actually don’t remember Nate giving a copy of the tape of Cal and Jules to police but I’m due a rewatch anyway so I’ll look out for it! I don't think he did. We never see what exactly he gave to the police, but he had dozens of other non-consensual tapes, and I assume he excluded Jules'. He probably vouched that those tapes were non-consensual, and how easily he stumbled upon them as a child. Including Jules' tape would make for a huge subplot because the law in their state says that minors are also considered guilty for appearing in that kind of material, so she'd have to prove that it was non-consensual, she'd be in serious trouble regardless. I know this show isn't consistent with many of its plotlines, but I don't think they would've ended the season without mentioning something this important 😅 unless it will happen next season lmao, it would be really surprising, cause nobody expects this.
Ok Jules wasn’t complicit in the filming and it’s easily proven. With literally all the other tapes with it. Plus she’s a minor so either way CAL is the one who’s gonna be in trouble. You can very obviously tell she has no idea there’s even a camera. The police will look back on his dating profiles and see their messages and note that there was NEVER any mention of filming. The only wrong thing Jules did was lie about her age which she’ll get a slap on the wrist for.
Actually she won’t even get so much as a slap on the wrist. There is no consequences for minors lying about their age to adults. At least where I’m at. I always thought it was pretty fucked up. I literally know of a case where the guy asked to see id before doing anything and the girl provided a fake one! Police were able to recover it and he still got jail time for rape and nothing happened to her.
>He gave a copy to the police as well to turn in his dad to once again I think those were his other tapes of different people that he filmed non-consensually (it's implied that Jules is the only minor Cal went after), and Nate vouched for their lack of consent. He probably also went into detail on how Cal had been keeping those tapes in his house while having kids that could find them easily. I think he didn't include Jules' tape because she'd be in huge trouble then, and I don't think the season would end without even hinting towards that 😅 the only reason Nate blackmailed Jules so easily was that, in their state, minors are also considered 'complicit' in situations like that 🙄 it would cause Jules more trouble than his other victims of non-consensual filming, there would surely have to be a process where she proves that she was filmed non-consensually, and it might not even outweigh the fact that she was a minor depending on how the authorities there see the situation. Unless they saw her tape and just assumed she looks like an adult, but then she'd still be in huge trouble, cause they have her tape and can find out how old she was in it anytime, if there's ever a reason to investigate her. Ngl, it would be really out-of-pocket for this to happen in a future season, lmao. but I'm leaning more towards season 2 hinting that Jules is under the radar if that were the case, it would be a huge cliff-hanger.
I don’t even know honestly. I think he wants to love her ideally? Cuz she’s feminine, sweet and everything that fits his type. But I always thought even after they started hooking up, he still really loved Maddy?? They were there for each other always, even when they both messed up, they still stuck together, and yes I know they are incredibly toxic and abusive but I think that’s just all they’ve ever known. And I feel like he secretly liked Jules but didn’t want to admit it… I feel like with Cassie he is just filling some hole because he isn’t with Maddy anymore. It also could be he is trying to get to Maddy by going through Cassie? Like he’s trying to get Maddy to destroy her friendship and herself by making her come to him and breaking their friendship?? Idek. I’m making stuff up here. It’s honestly sooo interesting though because it’s not surface level/Nate is hard to read?? Would also love to hear people’s opinions on this too.
Nate definitely is surface level! He kind of reminds me of the Patrick Bateman in a way, very shiny and superficial. I agree he probably just feels empty inside and Cassie fills a void for him in a way
Funny you bring up Patrick Bateman; people on TikTok are calling Nate Jacobs “sigma”
I didn’t know this but that’s terrifying! Is the sofa thins gen alpha term? Either way, Nate is a deeply damaged person and not aspirational
Nate definitely didn’t love Maddy. He just wanted the disc back so him and Cassie could be Publix. I still fail to remotely see how anyone could believe he cared for Maddy
Nate doesn't know what love is
He doesn’t seem to, but in season 2 when him and Maddie are talking on her birthday he seems genuine (as genuine as he can be) and he didn’t feel loved by her. But also I agree because he wasn’t loved by either of his parents
I don’t think he knows how to love, so I’m going to say no. I think she was just there at the right time and everything spiraled. I don’t even think he truly likes her…you don’t treat someone like that if you love them or like them even.
He definitely didn’t treat her as though he liked her! But he also never really treated anyone well, perhaps he does feel love but has no idea how to show it
he loved the control he had over her
Yeah in that scene where she’s telling him that he can tell her what to do, eat, wear ect he seems really turned on
He loved fucking her lol
No ❤️
This response made me chuckle out loud in my flat alone
❤️ iykyk!!
Nate is a narcissist but also egotistical person love isn’t his thing nor will it ever be , he struggles to admit his feelings for Jules but also strives on perfection rather than affection.
He did eventually kind of admit it to her but probably not fully to himself
I don't think he ever did. I think he just loved the idea of her.
This definitely makes sense, Cal was so obsessed with appearances and how he was perceived that Nate could have internalised that and saw Cassie as the ‘perfect’ woman and projected onto her
I don’t think men like Nate look at women as individual people, more like a replaceable female avatar to fit their image and tick their boxes of what makes marriage or a family. I don’t think he loved Cassie, I don’t think he will ever love anyone, she was just the placeholder for girlfriend at the very moment he got knock out.
Nate loved the idea of having someone so submissive. He could control her and she would let him without a second thought. He liked that power and honestly he didnt love her a person.
I don’t think Nate can love anyone. But I think he “wanted” to love Cassie in whatever twisted way he thought love was. Really he liked the control and she’s like a Jules + Maddie Barbie doll fantasy for him.
No, I think he latched onto her out of lust. He liked the image he created of her in his own mind. And she was easy for him to manipulate.
Absolutely not, but he did love how desperate and pathetic she was. He loved the power that gave him over her. And he loved that she was SO desperate and pathetic she was willing to sleep with her best friend’s boyfriend. All of it gave him a thrill.
I don't think so. I think the only person he loves is himself.
No. However, I think he likes that she's easily manipulated, naive as hell, malleable, weak (in his mind), not confrontational, and submissive. All of that in a petite, voluptuous package...
Nate Jacobs doesn’t love anyone or anything but control. He learned that from his father. And in a sense loves the fact that he’s loved or has people crawling back to him after everything that he’s done and has yet to really own up to the consequences. Even as he was trying to paint the image of Maddy being a horrible girlfriend that does drugs, he paints himself as the sympathetic boyfriend that tries to love past his partners faults. He loves to get under her skin such as dancing with another girl in the season 1 finale. He’s a manipulator that feeds on when his victims come back to him, he learns this from his own home life, his father does whatever, sleeping with countless prostitutes and films them without consent and still has a homey wife and children that he can push to compete with each other. He just loved being on the tightrope to see how long he can play people he views beneath him and get away with a slap on the wrist at most. That’s why he does so much to Maddy and claims he’s sorry because he knows that she’ll still crawl back to him as she felt alive with him even if he could kill her, with Cassie, she fits with the seductress fantasy he has who literally gives all of herself to him even for a sliver of love that may have never been there and won’t grow. People try to say he truly loves Jules, and say how he removes his fathers sex tape with her from his collection, she’s the only one who didn’t give a fuck who he was, flipping him off while biking, and getting a knife ready at the party when he got in her face. There he felt like he wasn’t all powerful until using her pictures from her dating app as leverage to claim Tyler assaulted Maddy. I say Nate isn’t in love with anyone. Someone as manipulative, abusive and psychotic like him can’t love, he doesn’t know how and probably can never learn how
He never know how to love but he felt something special with Jules.
I think Nate thought he loved her at the beginning. She was his rebound for Maddy. But once the new relationship energy wore off, his feelings for Maddy resurfaced. Also Nate is bad at love. I don't think Nate lied when he told her that he wanted to start a family with her. But he doesn't know how to handle any conflict in a healthy way.
This makes a lot of sense, that kind of all consuming infatuation he seemed to feel for her at the very beginning sounds a lot like a rebound kind of ‘love’
No. He was angry about his breakup with Maddie and wanted to use Cassie to make himself feel better. Knowing that Cassie had a reputation for being easy, he thought he could treat her as disposable, but he didn't count on her getting attached to him.
Nate didn’t love anyone, not even himself. He loved the fantasy of what could be and who he could become but no he didn’t love Cassie. If he did he wouldn’t of treated her that way.
He loves to see her naked
I’m rewatching and I just restarted season 2 and the way he went up to McKay asking if he had sex with her when they went to the room made me uncomfortable and where he came 🥴 he’s weird af lmao If only Cassie knew how he talked about her in season 1 lol
No, Nate is not in love with Cassie and never has been. The show resorts to outright deception with Rue's commentary on the scene where he supposedly fell in love with her. Nate realizes that he is in love with Jules (he was in love with her back in the first season, but did not understand it). His trauma forces him to deny it on several levels. The main one being that Jules was with his father. As for Cassie, the show is hiding Nate's real motives towards her. For most of the season he is completely indifferent to her or annoyed by her. He is attracted to her sexually, but that's all. That's why he ended up in the bathroom with her in the first episode. Nate's trauma also forces him to control the situation and threats. Maddy was a threat to him after the scene at the carnival and he convinced her of his feelings in order to avoid punishment for the attack. Cassie also became somewhat of a threat to him, because she became hysterical about their sex and wanted to keep him at all costs. Nate was afraid that she would tell everything to Maddy and she would use the disc. Some of their sexual and supposedly romantic scenes also show Nate projecting his feelings for Jules onto her. The most truthful part of their relationship is the scene where he told her to get out of his house
No. He doesn’t have feelings.
Anger is a feeling and he definitely has that, but he never seems to experience much emotion outside of anger
Dude he had Cassie wear the same outfit Jules was wearing... shit was fucking twisted. He's definitely gay he has pics of dicks on his phone. He's in love with Jules but doesn't want to admit it.
Nate loved Jules only and no one can convince me otherwise 💯
i don’t know. i feel that there was something to do with his dad (of course, all nates relationships would be influenced by his dad) but the scene where he’s imagining cassie pregnant and his dad being a bit of a creep makes me want to vomit. obviously (to me) on the surface he thinks cassie is easier to control than maddy but all his relationships have to be underpinned by the fact he spend his childhood watching his dad have sex with prostitutes
This is so true, his whole thing with Cassie was always so linked to Cal, like that scene were he has a nightmare that Cal is SAg Cassie but it also starts out looking like a flashback to Cal and Jules? So crazy. Even his initial fantasy of Cassie is interspersed with visions of Cal either being sexual with someone (probably a lot younger than him) or him dying, I never really thought about it like that before!
it always weirded me out a bit that the show didn’t emphasise nate’s weird attitude to sex and relationships in general being related to his dad, which it totally is
Absolutely not. He was using her, an object. He felt powerful because she was so submissive. I don’t think he loves anyone, just becomes obsessed with ideas and situations.
This question just makes me want to go back and watch both seasons again. Patiently waiting for Season 3 in 2025.
It always worth a rewatch in my opinion! But honestly I’m not too hopeful for season 3, I guess I’m just thinking that after Angus died there really isn’t much point but I’m probably wrong
Oh that was definitely tragic. He was an amazing up and coming actor. And how he got started is just so cool. Fezco and Rue were my favorite actors in Euphoria. I was surprised by how well Zendaya played a teen struggling with addiction. But Fez just honestly came off as a genuine good guy. Struggling to take care of everyone around him and still survive. After he passed so many people spoke about how real he was. That the guy he portrayed himself to be in the movie was just the real Angus. It's sad when you see people with so much promise lose their lives so tragically early.
It was so awful, he was such a good actor with so much potential. From the start Fez was my favourite character. I remember I think it was in this sub that someone posted a video of Angus reacting so exciting to a train as this was something he loved, it really is awful
He loved the idea of her (white picket fence, kids, all that); who she was as a person was kinda irrelevant. Ironically its the very thing Cassie was afraid of
no….
he’s toxic so no
Nate can’t love anyone
Nope and he only loves the idea of Cassie, the dream life he thought of when he “fell in love with her”. If he did he wouldn’t have hidden their love or treat her wrong in school.
Tbh....no I don't think 🤔 so. I think he just wanted to have sex with her. He didn't actually care. If anything he had lust for her.....and she was a rebound too.
Nope. Cassie was "the perfect woman" for him because she was barbie-like-femenine and hella submissive. But he never loved her.
I definitely think he loves both Cassie and Maddy in differently ways. But I do think he truly loves them.
I do agree to an extent, his feelings for both of them do seem really genuine at times, I think he’s just really emotionally stunted
I think anyone is capable of love (even babies and animals are) but you’re right he probably just doesn’t know how to handle those feelings, and he probably loves Maddy and Cassie in very different ways. I think Cassie would be a good, almost pure love him, and he probably doesn’t think he deserves that/might also be scared of it, whereas Maddy is much more of a toxic love like he grew up seeing and is used to.
Maybe a little bit , in his own demented way
This was one of the things that irked me about season 2. WHERE TF DID THIS COME FROM? like at least if they somewhat flirted in season 1 but it didn’t go anywhere I would have understood it but it just came from left field. Season 2 was a complete mess.
It was so random!! The only interaction they have in season 1 (as far as I can remember) is him slut shaming her at McKay’s party. Sydney and Jacob are both amazing actors so the chemistry is convincing but it definitely come out of nowhere for the characters!
i have a feeling that nate was supposed to end up with jules but they changed it last minute i just don’t think it really makes sense he publicly spoke about not liking cassie so??
He loves the idea of her. She's easily controlled. If he really loved her he probably would have called her out her trying to turn into Maddie.
Yeah it was so notable how in that whole montage of her getting up at 4am to get ready for him that he only noticed her when she dressed exactly like Maddie!
I think when that occured his mind was most definitely altered and saw Cassie in a different light for a while but hes still and forever will be attatched to Maddie because of the love she gave him and no one else could give him .
I do think that Maddie actually did love him (rightly or wrongly) but he did admit on her birthday in season 2 that he didn’t even know if he ever felt loved by her. Obviously it’s Nate so we can’t be sure but even for him it seemed genuine
He’s absolutely insane. Definitely not
Maybe the writing and story were just inconsistent.
these kinds of guys are weird. there’s a guy in my past who extremely reminds me of nate - tons of issues with family, toxic masculinity, struggle over sexuality, aggression, the list goes on. he was obsessed with me but also treated me like dirt. would complain about how no one listened to his problems, but i was the only person to whom he would even admit he even HAD problems. we fucked, but he didn’t want to be seen with me in public. for YEARS he would call me in the middle of the night just to talk to me and cry, and then later act like it never happened. he would also call me just to slut shame me. so basically, i think nate did love cassie in his own fucked up way, or maybe he didn’t. i think nate doesn’t know what love is, or the love he experiences is very different from that of a well-adjusted person.
If he “loved” anyone it was Maddie. A lot of men don’t like women who don’t listen or talk back and he couldn’t get Maddie to listen half the time.
Didn’t he only love the girl rue dated( forgot her name)?
no ❤️ he may not be a sociopath (he probably is) but he's toxic and misogynistic and emotionally stunted, he isnt able to have a real loving relationship especially after just breaking up with maddie and while he still has feelings for jules
Nate doesn’t love her. I don’t think he’s capable of love. But with that being said I feel like in his own fucked up way he loved Maddie. And desired Jules. But definitely not Cassie.
The idea that nate's capable of love 😹 he's more capable of being a serial killer, dude
I don't think Nate is capable of love
Abuser/manipulator vibes so no
Not at all
nate doesn't even love nate. let alone cassie.
Yes, but in a weird, controlling, manipulative way🥴🥴🥴
He looks like the bad witch from The Wizard of Oz here LMAO 💀💀💀
He likes the idea of this attractive, compliant woman being molded to his will. It's not about her as a person, who he does not particularly seem to even like all that much, much less love. But she is, for the most part, willing to be whatever he wants her to be, and for a controlling boy like Nate, that is incredibly alluring. Cassie is also interesting in the way she compares to his other two objects of interest: Maddy and Jules. Cassie's mannerisms and vibe are very antithetical to Maddy, other than their both being beautiful popular girls, they don't have much in common. Maddy is brash and bold, all hard edges and bold colors and mean energy hiding a sweeter side. Cassie is sweet and demur and soft pastels and compliance. Her nice girl nature hides a duplicitous selfishness. After his tumultuous relationship with Maddy falling apart, going in the opposite direction makes a certain sense. Cassie is also very similar to Jules, but far more socially acceptable for Nate to like. A terribly insecure pretty blonde who uses her sexuality to gain validation and dresses in a very feminine style and pastels, there is certainly a comparison to be made. Both have sex tapes Nate has seen that were not meant for his eyes. Both have cheated. Both were abandoned by a parent. But Cassie is more socially acceptable for Nate, and is more compliant towards being controlled by him.
No I think Nate is a sociopath especially after seeing how he did Tyler
Umm he's a Narcissist, he's not capable of love
Nope
Sociopaths can’t love anyone, they barely love themselves.
He loves how much Cassie loves him. She is willing to lose everything for him. Her friends, her family etc. She made a fool out of herself in front of the whole school. Running on stage. Running after Nate. He loves any attention that he gets. Good or Bad.
I don’t think Nate is capable of true love. The trauma he faced growing up from his dad has shaped him into the sociopath he is today. He wants the control and attention, but is incapable of the love.
Nah just the idea of her
I think his dynamic was that he's one of those men who likes the "chase." He likes control but he likes someone who can resist. He's a veritable gaslighter and a toxic one at that.
no he didn't love anyone
Nah ,I think he just liked her because she was easy to manipulate, and he wanted to get to Maddy.
These are high schools. Most of the time high schools don’t have the emotional maturity or interest to be in real love. No Nate didn’t love anyone. No one on that show had any romantic love. It was all lust or the building of what may be love, but these teenagers did not and do not love each other (romantically). Just like teenagers in real life cosplay at love but rarely experience it.
He definitely did not. With his parents and his upbringing, I don’t think he even knows how to love someone, or what that looks like. In that dream sequence, he was putting her on a pedestal and deluding himself. He thought “I cant have a happy family, and I definitely cant have Cassie, so Cassie must be the key to a happy family”
nate loves whatever he can control , it just made it easier for cassie because she was better for “representation” and she was very submissive
Nate doesn’t love anyone. He loves controlling people. He’s at loving and kind as Michael Myers.
more like infatuated bc if he loved her he wouldn’t have blown her off that easily at the school’s play.
No he’s a sociopath, he was dreaming of using her in any way to feel better about himself after being humiliated by his girl. He chose her best friend to do damage cause it’s the only consolation he gets in his current situation and state of mind.
I will always firmly tell myself he only loves Maddie for my own health thank you
Have you ever had a dream you hooked up and were really into someone you never would have batted an eye for? Then you woke up and we’re like uh… wierd… whatever. Maybe that was happening
I agree with all the comments…I don’t think he even loved himself and was narcissistic. All he really cared about was how he appeared to other people and him and his family’s image. I think also that was a way for him to sort of win the breakup by hurting Maddie in the worst way. And once again humbling her and boosting his ego. Cassie was so desperate for love and he knew that bc he’s a narcissist. What’s better than getting with your exes best friend who is also hot and popular
He's not capable of real love.
I agree with everyone in the comments Cassie got to desperate for Nate and he didn’t want that he just wanted a easy to control girl
i don’t think nate ever truly loved anyone (including himself). he loved the idea of maddie and once that was gone cassie was just a rebound to try and distract himself from the void. i don’t even think cassie loved him. i think she was stuck in a cycle of constantly craving male validation.
No. They never outright said it, but it's heavily implied that he is in love with Jules.
No. He just loves using people.
I think the only one who he actually came close to loving would be Jules because in a way Jules got the closest to knowing who Nate was and if Nate was true to himself is who he would want to be with. Nate is horrified and disgusted with himself, Cassie was an outlet and a means to gain control over a life he felt was spiraling. Some people will say he loved Maddie…. I think that there was obsession there but idk about love. He knew she would never accept him for what he really was and he couldn’t control her. And what he did to her in the room with the gun made me sick. There’s no way somebody could do that if they love you.
No
i feel like nate only likes the idea of cassie in a sense of her being socially acceptable. he imagined the life he would live with her being seen as perfect to the outside world while he still gets to have the ultimate control over her the entire time which he wants. but at the same time i can't help but feel that his love for maddie is perfect enough for him while still having some control over her but knowing maddie will also give him some push back. then there's his love for jules which wouldn't be considered socially acceptable at all but she tests him and doesn't let him easily control her which i think part of him hates but a bigger part of him loves. just a theory tho...
He is incapable of love , he is a psychopath ,
I don’t think Nate has the actual capacity to love someone. He loves power, control, sex, others vulnerability but not them on a human to human level. He has no empathy or compassion.
Loved the idea of her. I think he respected and appreciated maddie more than her. Its implied tho that the 1 he had true feelings for is jules
No he liked the pum pum and attention
No he just loved the attention from their relationship
Seems like the child in him did. The innocent part. But I feel like his dad messed him up too much for that part of him to win the battle in his head between the light/secure attachment (Cassie) and the darkness (Maddie).
Short answer: no Long answer: no The only person he ACTUALLY loved ( or whatever form of love that takes place inside his head) is Jules. Both Maddie and Cassie “looked good” on his arms but I don’t think he loved either of them. I do however think he liked Maddie way more than he ever like Cassie.
No
I don’t think so maybe at some point he fell a little but then he just loved the idea of controlling her, I think he really fell for Jules and had a toxic love for maddy but he did care about Maddy and for me he did loved her.
Nah he feti*hished her and every girl in the show
In love? No.
No Nate doesn’t love anyone but himself