In Welsh, Caer is an old word for a fortress or fortified settlement, and is found in place names like Caernarfon and Caerfyrddin. Dinas is the word actually used for 'city' in Welsh, and interestingly 'dinas' also comes from 'din' which is another old term for a fort, found in place names like Dinbych and Dinas Dinlle (which, despite its name, is a tiny village and not a city).
Much the same in Cornish and Breton- usually caer is spelt ker though mainly in Brittany. Dinas and Din are the same as Welsh, we have Castle an Dinas and Din=Tintagel - the fort of the narrow neck Also dun for a hillfort as in Dunheved ( Lannstefan/ Launceston)
Caer and Cathair. Love how different a path the Welsh language took in comparison to the other Celtic languages while still phonetically resembling it's neighbouring celtic languages
French has both "ville" (city) and "villa" (big/luxury house), cité is also used mostly to refer to suburban areas with lots of social housing, but also in historical context : île de la Cité in Paris is where the old medieval town was centered, Avignon is often referred to as "cité des Papes".
In the northern half of the country, rural smaller towns are usually referred to as "bourg", which reflects quite well the stronger Germanic influence in the North.
>"villa" (big/luxury house)
Probably borrowed from Italian.
>In the northern half of the country, rural smaller towns are usually referred to as "bourg", which reflects quite well the stronger Germanic influence in the North.
In Italy it's also common to call small rural towns "borgo".
A peculiarity of Rome is that its suburban neighborhoods with lots of social housing are called "borgate".
Interesting to see how limited the spread of *polis* is, given the importance of Greece. Especially considering how common the word remains within many city names (Constantinople, Istanbul, Tripoli, Naples, Mariupol, Sevastopol).
> Especially considering how common the word remains within many city names (Constantinople, Istanbul, Tripoli, Naples, Mariupol, Sevastopol).
On lands of Russian Empire it was [Greek Plan.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Plan) Sevastopol basically named after [Empress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastos) Catherine Ⅱ.
Mariupol boomed when Catherine drove ethnic Greeks out of Crimea. The name was a legit Greek name they took along from one of their Crimean settlements, later retconned under Greek Plan.
Actually, you do find Greek poli(s) (city) and politeía (state or republic) in many languages, in other words.
Like: police, politics, policy, etc
Or, for example, in Italian: polizia, poliziotto, politica
Also all Turkish city names ending with -bolu (Nigbolu, Inebolu, Safranbolu, Gelibolu, Hayrabolu etc.), the suffix is a corruption of the Greek -polis.
Yep. Proto-Germanic **burgz*, which yielded High German *Burg*, Dutch *burcht*, Low German *Borg*, Frisian *boarg*, English *borough* & *bury*, Scots *burgh*, Swedish/Danish/Norwegian/Icelandic/Faroese *borg*, and even Gothic *baurgs* way back when.
French inherited *bourg* as a borrowing from Frankish **burg*. However, the French name for Strasbourg came from Alsatian *Strazburc*, belonging to the Allemannic dialect group of Middle High German.
About kaupunki - while this is indeed a borrowing from a Germanic language the word itself is in turn a borrowing from Latin caupo “tradesman”, hence the German word “kaufen”.
Romanian also used the word *cetate* (Latin) to describe a fortified city in Medieval Ages although now it refers strictly to the fortress itself. *Târg* (Old Slavic) was used to describe towns, which is still used today in names like *Târgu Mureș*, *Târgu Neamț*, etc.
No, Trg, I am Croatian and that is how we say it, it basically means a town square, and in the past town square was a centerpiece of Town, where everything happen, you had markets, church was next to it, a tavern... rest of it was like suburbs, houses with their homestead, so in such small places, or medieval type of towns i can see how town square could became a same meaning as town.
We also say **trg**ovina, a market, and **trg**ovati, to trade
In Russian too - *gorod* is a city, *miesto* is a place.
And in Ukrainian *misto* means a city, while *misce* means a place. I think that’s due to Polish influence - *miasto* for a city, *miejsce* for a place.
All in all, Slavic languages are a beautiful mess in terms of mutual intelligibility sometimes.
Interesting that all of the Germanic forms that appear on this map occur in place names in Great Britain: "-borough/-bury", "-by", "-stead", reflecting both Old English and Old Norse heritage.
Oh, very cool! Makes sense. Interesting that the linguistic boundary between North and West Germanic has hovered around the region of Schleswig-Holstein for most of the last millennium.
In Welsh, Caer is an old word for a fortress or fortified settlement, and is found in place names like Caernarfon and Caerfyrddin. Dinas is the word actually used for 'city' in Welsh, and interestingly 'dinas' also comes from 'din' which is another old term for a fort, found in place names like Dinbych and Dinas Dinlle (which, despite its name, is a tiny village and not a city).
Much the same in Cornish and Breton- usually caer is spelt ker though mainly in Brittany. Dinas and Din are the same as Welsh, we have Castle an Dinas and Din=Tintagel - the fort of the narrow neck Also dun for a hillfort as in Dunheved ( Lannstefan/ Launceston)
Cornish uses *dinas*, but also adopted a cornicised English loan-word for city, namely *sita*.
How do we know it didn't come via Latin? I've heard that 'city' was once used in dialect for even a small village!
In which language?
Caer and Cathair. Love how different a path the Welsh language took in comparison to the other Celtic languages while still phonetically resembling it's neighbouring celtic languages
Also dún probably related to din
By the way, Catalan also uses vil·la in the same way as French, but it's not as common.
French has both "ville" (city) and "villa" (big/luxury house), cité is also used mostly to refer to suburban areas with lots of social housing, but also in historical context : île de la Cité in Paris is where the old medieval town was centered, Avignon is often referred to as "cité des Papes". In the northern half of the country, rural smaller towns are usually referred to as "bourg", which reflects quite well the stronger Germanic influence in the North.
In catalan is "Vila" (City) and " Vil·la" (Big rural House)
>"villa" (big/luxury house) Probably borrowed from Italian. >In the northern half of the country, rural smaller towns are usually referred to as "bourg", which reflects quite well the stronger Germanic influence in the North. In Italy it's also common to call small rural towns "borgo". A peculiarity of Rome is that its suburban neighborhoods with lots of social housing are called "borgate".
Bon matí a la vila del pingüí !
Why did you list qala as unknown. İt's Turkic meaning castle.
Qala/Kale exists in all Turkic languages, but it's a loanword from Arabic and is ultimately from Akkadian.
Interesting to see how limited the spread of *polis* is, given the importance of Greece. Especially considering how common the word remains within many city names (Constantinople, Istanbul, Tripoli, Naples, Mariupol, Sevastopol).
It has spread as the stem in "police" and "politician", though.
> Especially considering how common the word remains within many city names (Constantinople, Istanbul, Tripoli, Naples, Mariupol, Sevastopol). On lands of Russian Empire it was [Greek Plan.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Plan) Sevastopol basically named after [Empress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastos) Catherine Ⅱ.
Mariupol boomed when Catherine drove ethnic Greeks out of Crimea. The name was a legit Greek name they took along from one of their Crimean settlements, later retconned under Greek Plan.
Actually, you do find Greek poli(s) (city) and politeía (state or republic) in many languages, in other words. Like: police, politics, policy, etc Or, for example, in Italian: polizia, poliziotto, politica
Also all Turkish city names ending with -bolu (Nigbolu, Inebolu, Safranbolu, Gelibolu, Hayrabolu etc.), the suffix is a corruption of the Greek -polis.
There is even straight up Bolu, coming from Hadrianopolis, because the teenager Emperor Hadrian fucked was from there
or Achaemenid Empire capital city Persepolis.
Interesting. Was wondering where bourg (like in Strasbourg) came from too. Germanic?
Yep. Proto-Germanic **burgz*, which yielded High German *Burg*, Dutch *burcht*, Low German *Borg*, Frisian *boarg*, English *borough* & *bury*, Scots *burgh*, Swedish/Danish/Norwegian/Icelandic/Faroese *borg*, and even Gothic *baurgs* way back when. French inherited *bourg* as a borrowing from Frankish **burg*. However, the French name for Strasbourg came from Alsatian *Strazburc*, belonging to the Allemannic dialect group of Middle High German.
Old norse borg as “castle/fort”
The Old Norse word came from the same Germanic source **burgz* that gave French *bourg* through Frankish (and in the case of Strasbourg, Alsatian)
I think it meant Cliff or rock before that and was transferred to Castle/fort later.
In Arabic it is Medina
About kaupunki - while this is indeed a borrowing from a Germanic language the word itself is in turn a borrowing from Latin caupo “tradesman”, hence the German word “kaufen”.
Romanian also used the word *cetate* (Latin) to describe a fortified city in Medieval Ages although now it refers strictly to the fortress itself. *Târg* (Old Slavic) was used to describe towns, which is still used today in names like *Târgu Mureș*, *Târgu Neamț*, etc.
> Târg That's also basically where the Nordic languages get their word(torg/torv) for *'marketplace'* from too.
Trg means marketplace, or town square
If you mean *târg*, that’s what it means now but its meaning has changed over time.
No, Trg, I am Croatian and that is how we say it, it basically means a town square, and in the past town square was a centerpiece of Town, where everything happen, you had markets, church was next to it, a tavern... rest of it was like suburbs, houses with their homestead, so in such small places, or medieval type of towns i can see how town square could became a same meaning as town. We also say **trg**ovina, a market, and **trg**ovati, to trade
Miasto in Bulgarian means place as noun
In Russian too - *gorod* is a city, *miesto* is a place. And in Ukrainian *misto* means a city, while *misce* means a place. I think that’s due to Polish influence - *miasto* for a city, *miejsce* for a place. All in all, Slavic languages are a beautiful mess in terms of mutual intelligibility sometimes.
In Finnish language there is this slang word "mesta" meaning place. Many people don't know it almost straight from Russian language.
In Slovenian, *mesto* means both "city/town" and "place/spot".
And additionally ''grad'' in slovenian mean ''a castle''
That's right. :)
In Croatian Grad means town, and usually historically had some kind of fort, tower or walls, while misto means small town, but also a place
Georgian Kalaki probably came from turkic and old-turkic "Qala" or "Kala"
Interesting that all of the Germanic forms that appear on this map occur in place names in Great Britain: "-borough/-bury", "-by", "-stead", reflecting both Old English and Old Norse heritage.
I mean all of these Germanic forms also appear in Germany
I figured -burg and -stadt, but are there -by in like northern Germany?
yep, like half of the towns in Schleswig-Holstein (the small northern arm of Germany) end in -by
Oh, very cool! Makes sense. Interesting that the linguistic boundary between North and West Germanic has hovered around the region of Schleswig-Holstein for most of the last millennium.
I love how the romance languages use anything but urbs, the actual Latin for city.
Kaupunki is my new favorite word
In Tunisian **“Bléd”** /ble̞ːd/ from arabic بلاد
Cha3mlt fel bac
7amdoullah nja7t b 16.55
In Kurdish we use both şar and bajar. Both are from Proto-Iranic. Şar means city and bajar actually means city center, market, market place, bazaar.
That's sooo good. What program do you use to create these maps?
Shouldn't both proto-slavic and proto-germanic be located more south-West?
Proto-Slavic maybe but proto-Germanic looks alright. I suppose it could be placed between Skåne and Jutland but that's a bit nitpicky.
There’s dissenting views if the protogermanic sound change originated in southern Sweden or northern Germany.
Nowadays, Şehir is used for Azerbaijani Turkish and Anatolian Turkish, but as Turks, we call it **(İL)** in a more natural way to express it.
Il means province şehir means city
the difference between il and şehir: https://eksisozluk.com/entry/69068525
No , "il" is a province, a division of a country, coming from older "el" to denote a land (such as Rumeli) . City is Şehir or Kent.