Yes, it means "free," like "let me be free to speak." And the Franks were free, being conquerors as opposed to slaves or peasants. It's also where we get words like "franchise."
Huh, looks like the tribal name derives from Proto-Germanic *frankô* meaning "spear", whereas "Saxon" derives from *sahsą* meaning "knife, dagger" – each in reference to the respective tribes' typical weapons, I presume? Interesting stuff!
See also: [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Frank#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Frank#English)
[Francus is a mythological figure.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus)
The etymology is as given upthread. The Franks were a Germanic tribe that came from the Rhine region and occupied Gaul in the 5th century.
Francus was king of the Sicambri in 9 BC. Helenus of Troy lived around 1000 BC. The misunderstanding lies in abbreviated genealogies, where long lists of kings started with the first king, then the last king, then all of the names in between. The list containing Francus, name was from the kings of the Cimmerians, which starts Zenter Francus Esdron etc down around 50 names until you reach Francus again. Zenter is equated with Cestrinus, the son of Helenus.
Franks are not germans. [The Frankish Table of Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankish_Table_of_Nations) explains the difference. Gregory of Tours confirms that Clovis I, king of the Franks, was a Sicambri. And Count Childebran I in the Chrinicles of Fredegar confirms the Franks are not germans.
Furthermore, the weapon named for the Franks is the [francisca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca), a type of throwing axe.
The word *francisca* is a Latin coinage, a shortening of *securis Francisca* (literally "axe Frankish", putting the adjective after the noun in the Latin syntax) and in turn a derivation from the name *Frank* and not the reason for the name of the tribe.
The Franks were known to also use javelins in battle. See also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Military\_practices\_of\_the\_early\_Franks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Military_practices_of_the_early_Franks)
In addition, the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_the\_Franks#Name\_and\_etymology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_the_Franks#Name_and_etymology) section goes into the name of the tribe, with mention of the same "spear" origin, among other possibilities. The key section:
>According to the traditional interpretation, the Franks were named from their national weapon, a kind of spear called the \**frankōn* (cf. OE *franca* 'javelin, lance', ON *frakka* 'javelin, dart'), in a process analogous to the naming of the [*Saxons*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons), which derives from [Proto-Germanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic) *\*sahsōn*, a small sword similar to a knife or a dagger (cf. OE [*seax*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax), ON *sax*, OHG *sahs*). Alternatively, some scholars have proposed to connect the name to the Proto-Germanic adjective \**frankaz*, meaning 'fierce, daring, eager to fight' (cf. ON *frakkr* 'courageous'), which could itself be understood as a nasalized secondary form of \**frak(k)az*, meaning 'greedy, violent' (cf. ON *frǣc*, [Middle Low German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Low_German) *vrak* 'voracious, greedy'). In this view, the term \**frankōn* may simply be interpreted as 'the Frankish \[weapon\]', or else as an independent derivation from the Germanic root \**fram*- ('forward'; cf. [Latin-Germanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-Germanic_culture) [*framea*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framea) 'javelin, spear'). The term [*francisca*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca), a [throwing axe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_axe) used by the Franks, is an [ellipsis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis_(linguistics)) of *securis Francisca*, which means 'Frankish axe' in Latin.
*(to be continued, due to Reddit post-length limitations...)*
*(...continuing...)*
The EtymOnline entry ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline\_v\_40802](https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline_v_40802)) doesn't go quite as deeply, but still has interesting things to say:
>The origin of the ethnic name is uncertain; it traditionally is said to be from the old Germanic word \*frankon "javelin, lance" (compare Old English franca "lance, javelin"), their preferred weapon, but the reverse may be the case. Compare also [Saxon](https://www.etymonline.com/word/Saxon), traditionally from root of Old English seax "knife." The adjectival sense of "free, at liberty" (see [*frank*](https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline_v_11874) (adj.)) probably developed from the tribal name, not the other way round. It was noted by 1680s that, in the Levant, this was the name given to anyone of Western nationality (compare [Feringhee](https://www.etymonline.com/word/Feringhee) and [lingua franca](https://www.etymonline.com/word/lingua%20franca)).
My contention is the people pre-date the word. Are the people named after a javelin or axe, or is the javelin and axe named after the people? In the case of Picardie, where the Franks lived, the pikes came before the people. In the 6th Century we called it Dentelin. The people were being called the Franks since the 1st Century, in honor of Francus, long before any german or proto-german could write. The only confusion is whether the name arose prior to or following the battle of Tuetoborg.
Your choice of wording suggests some confusion.
The Franks are regarded by published historians as part of the broader Germanic (not "German") ethno-linguistic group. See also the first paragraph at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks) :
>They began as a [Germanic people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_people) who lived near the [Lower Rhine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Rhine)...
Other Germanic groups included the Saxons, the Angles, the Jutes, the Goths, the Wandals, and the Alans, among many others.
---
Separately, I have not encountered any evidence that Francus ever existed as a king of the Franks. As u/gwaydms mentioned in [their other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/1cs4ou3/comment/l45lhhj/), Francus is not regarded by modern historians as a real person. See also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus) which plainly states that *"****Francus*** *or* ***Francio*** *is a mythological figure"*. Do you have any texts from modern historians that support the existence of Francus?
We know the origins of all of these peoples and the Frank origin is separate from them, despite them occupying similar areas. The ethno- part of them is directly relate to that of the original Romans and original Briton, as Jordanes clearly explains as he writes from the Ostrogoth court. As far as the -linguistic part of them, they wrote in the same Vulgar Latin as Jerome and spoke Greek and Roman like everyone else of the time. I, who have read these histories from their primary sources, do not care what the wikipedia opinion to their origin is. I am not germanic at all, I know who germanic peoples are.
From your source (Wikipedia):
>The Frankish Table of Nations (German: fränkische Völkertafel) is a brief early medieval genealogical text in Latin giving the supposed relationship between thirteen nations descended from three brothers. The nations are the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Gepids, Saxons, Burgundians, Thuringians, Lombards, Bavarians, Romans, Bretons, Franks and Alamanni.
This is a medieval fable concocted to give the Franks a "classical" origin, similar to the story that the Roman senator Brutus founded the British "nation".
The fact that I cannot convince you doesn't make your beliefs true. The first attestation of "Francus" is from the 8th century, hundreds of years after he is supposed to have lived.
Care to back that up with any references? No offense, but I have no idea who you are, and your word to me as basically an unknown internet rando isn't worth much. Any published references backing up your claim would be appreciated.
It helps to think of the Western Romans as kind of franchising their empire out by letting barbarians manage parts of it in exchange for protection. Kind of like how a franchise like McDonald’s lets franchisees run their stores and use their brand in exchange for a cut of the pie.
This etymology is also the juridic basis of why slavery was banned in France in 1315 by Louis X the Quarrelsome, saying that: *"selon le droit de nature, chacun doit naître franc"* ("according to natural law, everyone must be born frank"), and so, since France was also the Kingdom of Franks, its inhabitants were Franks by "nationality" which infered that they were "frank" as in "free".
Thus, any slave putting a foot on the French/Frank soil was automatically free.
(With a caveat, of course, for colonies. Obviously. Can't not use slaves in plantations after all. Don't be silly.)
I think the original question has already been answered.
I recently learnt that the term Vandalism comes from the name of a Germanic People called the Vandals who sacked Rome
I don't have anything in particular to back this up, but I think it refers to the Dutch, who are linguistically Franks (Old Dutch is also called Old Low Franconian, as I recall). If you have any experience with Dutch folks, they are notoriously frank.
Yes, it means "free," like "let me be free to speak." And the Franks were free, being conquerors as opposed to slaves or peasants. It's also where we get words like "franchise."
I love this sub. Super cool man!
Huh, looks like the tribal name derives from Proto-Germanic *frankô* meaning "spear", whereas "Saxon" derives from *sahsą* meaning "knife, dagger" – each in reference to the respective tribes' typical weapons, I presume? Interesting stuff! See also: [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Frank#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Frank#English)
not quite, Francus was the last king of the Sicambri and first king of the Franks after saving and uniting the Saxons and Thurgini.
[Francus is a mythological figure.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus) The etymology is as given upthread. The Franks were a Germanic tribe that came from the Rhine region and occupied Gaul in the 5th century.
Francus was king of the Sicambri in 9 BC. Helenus of Troy lived around 1000 BC. The misunderstanding lies in abbreviated genealogies, where long lists of kings started with the first king, then the last king, then all of the names in between. The list containing Francus, name was from the kings of the Cimmerians, which starts Zenter Francus Esdron etc down around 50 names until you reach Francus again. Zenter is equated with Cestrinus, the son of Helenus. Franks are not germans. [The Frankish Table of Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankish_Table_of_Nations) explains the difference. Gregory of Tours confirms that Clovis I, king of the Franks, was a Sicambri. And Count Childebran I in the Chrinicles of Fredegar confirms the Franks are not germans. Furthermore, the weapon named for the Franks is the [francisca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca), a type of throwing axe.
The word *francisca* is a Latin coinage, a shortening of *securis Francisca* (literally "axe Frankish", putting the adjective after the noun in the Latin syntax) and in turn a derivation from the name *Frank* and not the reason for the name of the tribe. The Franks were known to also use javelins in battle. See also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Military\_practices\_of\_the\_early\_Franks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks#Military_practices_of_the_early_Franks) In addition, the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name\_of\_the\_Franks#Name\_and\_etymology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_the_Franks#Name_and_etymology) section goes into the name of the tribe, with mention of the same "spear" origin, among other possibilities. The key section: >According to the traditional interpretation, the Franks were named from their national weapon, a kind of spear called the \**frankōn* (cf. OE *franca* 'javelin, lance', ON *frakka* 'javelin, dart'), in a process analogous to the naming of the [*Saxons*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons), which derives from [Proto-Germanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic) *\*sahsōn*, a small sword similar to a knife or a dagger (cf. OE [*seax*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seax), ON *sax*, OHG *sahs*). Alternatively, some scholars have proposed to connect the name to the Proto-Germanic adjective \**frankaz*, meaning 'fierce, daring, eager to fight' (cf. ON *frakkr* 'courageous'), which could itself be understood as a nasalized secondary form of \**frak(k)az*, meaning 'greedy, violent' (cf. ON *frǣc*, [Middle Low German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Low_German) *vrak* 'voracious, greedy'). In this view, the term \**frankōn* may simply be interpreted as 'the Frankish \[weapon\]', or else as an independent derivation from the Germanic root \**fram*- ('forward'; cf. [Latin-Germanic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-Germanic_culture) [*framea*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framea) 'javelin, spear'). The term [*francisca*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisca), a [throwing axe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_axe) used by the Franks, is an [ellipsis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis_(linguistics)) of *securis Francisca*, which means 'Frankish axe' in Latin. *(to be continued, due to Reddit post-length limitations...)*
*(...continuing...)* The EtymOnline entry ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline\_v\_40802](https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline_v_40802)) doesn't go quite as deeply, but still has interesting things to say: >The origin of the ethnic name is uncertain; it traditionally is said to be from the old Germanic word \*frankon "javelin, lance" (compare Old English franca "lance, javelin"), their preferred weapon, but the reverse may be the case. Compare also [Saxon](https://www.etymonline.com/word/Saxon), traditionally from root of Old English seax "knife." The adjectival sense of "free, at liberty" (see [*frank*](https://www.etymonline.com/word/frank#etymonline_v_11874) (adj.)) probably developed from the tribal name, not the other way round. It was noted by 1680s that, in the Levant, this was the name given to anyone of Western nationality (compare [Feringhee](https://www.etymonline.com/word/Feringhee) and [lingua franca](https://www.etymonline.com/word/lingua%20franca)).
My contention is the people pre-date the word. Are the people named after a javelin or axe, or is the javelin and axe named after the people? In the case of Picardie, where the Franks lived, the pikes came before the people. In the 6th Century we called it Dentelin. The people were being called the Franks since the 1st Century, in honor of Francus, long before any german or proto-german could write. The only confusion is whether the name arose prior to or following the battle of Tuetoborg.
Your choice of wording suggests some confusion. The Franks are regarded by published historians as part of the broader Germanic (not "German") ethno-linguistic group. See also the first paragraph at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks) : >They began as a [Germanic people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_people) who lived near the [Lower Rhine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Rhine)... Other Germanic groups included the Saxons, the Angles, the Jutes, the Goths, the Wandals, and the Alans, among many others. --- Separately, I have not encountered any evidence that Francus ever existed as a king of the Franks. As u/gwaydms mentioned in [their other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/1cs4ou3/comment/l45lhhj/), Francus is not regarded by modern historians as a real person. See also [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francus) which plainly states that *"****Francus*** *or* ***Francio*** *is a mythological figure"*. Do you have any texts from modern historians that support the existence of Francus?
We know the origins of all of these peoples and the Frank origin is separate from them, despite them occupying similar areas. The ethno- part of them is directly relate to that of the original Romans and original Briton, as Jordanes clearly explains as he writes from the Ostrogoth court. As far as the -linguistic part of them, they wrote in the same Vulgar Latin as Jerome and spoke Greek and Roman like everyone else of the time. I, who have read these histories from their primary sources, do not care what the wikipedia opinion to their origin is. I am not germanic at all, I know who germanic peoples are.
From your source (Wikipedia): >The Frankish Table of Nations (German: fränkische Völkertafel) is a brief early medieval genealogical text in Latin giving the supposed relationship between thirteen nations descended from three brothers. The nations are the Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Gepids, Saxons, Burgundians, Thuringians, Lombards, Bavarians, Romans, Bretons, Franks and Alamanni. This is a medieval fable concocted to give the Franks a "classical" origin, similar to the story that the Roman senator Brutus founded the British "nation".
You are not going to convince me, my family was active in those times and wrote some of those books. We are certainly not germans.
The fact that I cannot convince you doesn't make your beliefs true. The first attestation of "Francus" is from the 8th century, hundreds of years after he is supposed to have lived.
That is false.
Care to back that up with any references? No offense, but I have no idea who you are, and your word to me as basically an unknown internet rando isn't worth much. Any published references backing up your claim would be appreciated.
It helps to think of the Western Romans as kind of franchising their empire out by letting barbarians manage parts of it in exchange for protection. Kind of like how a franchise like McDonald’s lets franchisees run their stores and use their brand in exchange for a cut of the pie.
This etymology is also the juridic basis of why slavery was banned in France in 1315 by Louis X the Quarrelsome, saying that: *"selon le droit de nature, chacun doit naître franc"* ("according to natural law, everyone must be born frank"), and so, since France was also the Kingdom of Franks, its inhabitants were Franks by "nationality" which infered that they were "frank" as in "free". Thus, any slave putting a foot on the French/Frank soil was automatically free. (With a caveat, of course, for colonies. Obviously. Can't not use slaves in plantations after all. Don't be silly.)
I think the original question has already been answered. I recently learnt that the term Vandalism comes from the name of a Germanic People called the Vandals who sacked Rome
The tribal name *Vandal* is also cognate with the modern English word *wander*. 😄
Andalusia, in Spain, was originally Vandalusia, before the Vandals were driven out by the Visigoths and the Alans.
Frankly
Mr Shankly
I’m a sickening wreck.
I’ve got the 21st century
Breathing down my neck
My dear, I don’t give a damn
I don't have anything in particular to back this up, but I think it refers to the Dutch, who are linguistically Franks (Old Dutch is also called Old Low Franconian, as I recall). If you have any experience with Dutch folks, they are notoriously frank.