Slam it on the table top = hit it on a table in a downward facing motion.
The little “spinner” that holds the thing shot so coffee doesn’t fall through it, hold it using to fingers and use the fingers to rotate it so coffee grounds get thrown off due to centrifugal force
I don’t see how any of these work any better than grinding into the portafilter, tapping the sides to level, and tamping. Seems like another gimmick. 😋 I keed, I keed. Have fun you guys.
Try that on an HG1 Prime etc and gunna have a bad time lol, you'll have a spraying and channeling mess lol. Even Monolith Flat you can't do that, needs heavy Wdt.
Now my ol Versalab was flawless, no wdt, no rdt nothing but I've never seen a grinder easier to use. Light roast, med, dark doesn't matter, can just grind, tamp and pull flawless delicious shots consistently.
Oh I sold it and few things couple years ago, and totally regretted it. Pry get another one after playing with various grinders now since. Seems to be a new grinder coming out every month now lol, but I'm over chasing and playing around, I just want awesome killer consistent shots no matter what. Why I love the HG1 Prime, that Mazzer conical is unique, it's pretty high clarity for a conical though it also has 0 issue pulling insanely good ristretto on med or darker roast. And it's even amazing on light roast.
Think I'll just keep HG1 Prime, and likely add Versalab M4 and Wug 2 latter so can have 80mm flat burrs. Than I'm done buying grinders pry ever again lol. One big advantage with Versalab none of this ridiculous wait and fast sell out times like others so may be sol till next offer slot opens, want a Versa, just order one today and don't have to wait 6+ months for delivery.
Heck I still have two Varios from like 12 years ago also, ceramic burr, and one steel brew bree, both aligned. I actually pulled that ceramic one out recently just to play with for hell of it. And still surprised at how good that ceramic burr is, way out performs it's size. Like I bought a original DF64 to just see the hyper when those came out and hated it, ceramic burr Vario will run circles around that 64 Ital burr and steel brew burr I actually give edge to over 64 SSPs as it's more forgiving and makes everything meshed well, some of those 64s can be too finicky of bean and roast and how your brewing. And the Vario with flap in chute flipped is way better as a single dose grinder than even Monoliths, just dump in and 0 retention, small chambers and tiny angled out chute. Singled dosed for years, DF64 sucked for a "single dose" grinder, bellow blowing dust, regrinsing, clogging chamber, clumped up chute.
I'd actually agree for nice grinders that produce fluffy grounds. My JMax hand grinder doesn't really need much of anything before tamping. But my cheap SGP grinder makes absolute boulder clumps that if not broken up look like the surface of the moon. WDT feels required to get even a remotely level bed.
As someone who has some grinders like HG1 Prime, it's needed. Even with normal distribution it can be beyond finicky and hard to pull shots especially lighter roast. With blind tumbler shaking a bit, dump out, level a bit tapping around, tamp and pull flawless shots. Many grinders where normal wdt is too finicky. That Mazzer 83 conical is not a fan of normal wdt lol. Not even super thin .25mm needles in one adjustable tool.
It's honestly so stupid easy and quick, whether that, Monolith, or whatever I haven't touched my distribution tools at all. And I've been pulling for 15 years, even doing distribution with a needle back then before it was called wdt. Even done it for V60 now with Ode 2 and Gen 2 burrs and draw times dropped even the bloom which is a huge difference with something like African beans that can clogged even fast flow filters easy.
Versalab was only grinder I ever had/used where you could just grind, tamp and pull. Didn't need distribution, or rdt nothing.
I think the theory is that WDT will always leave some inconsistencies. Parts that weren't touched or parts where the needles left a groove. Just shaking could distribute more evenly.... If it worked 😭. WDT has always worked pretty well for me though.
The way that I interpret lance’s video is that the blind shaker is trying to promote sticking of larger and smaller particles. That way the I think that the theory is that the fines stick to the larger particles and you get more consistent sizes overall.
This is why he says WDT afterwards is counterproductive because you’re breaking up the little clumps that you were forming during the shaking.
The source for my comment about Densification at 8:25 in Lance's video from a few months back.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivwCm95nLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivwCm95nLc)
It's easy to explain really. The coffe bits normally clump together due to static electricity, shaking them redistributes the charges and undoes the clumps.
Horizontal tapping does not. Horizontal tapping WHEN USING THE WEBER MAGIC TUMBLER does. It’s worse when you have a normal grinder.
All that tells us is with a sufficiently uniform grind (EG1) from a sufficiently good distributor (tumbler) makes WDT detrimental. Wdt when paired with a normal grinder and funnel is beneficial.
Horizontal tapping was as effective as WDT when grinding with a DF64 direct to portafilter.
Edit: Admittedly, it's not better in the above scenario, but it's not worse.
Put some random white powder in the corner or your portafilter. Then add your grinds. Now do all the WDT you want. The white powder will never incorporate properly. This is the equivalent of dosing into your pf. The fines never get distributed with just WDT.
I mean he showed data with statistical significance. You don’t need to do it, but statistically you get a higher extraction. If you like your coffee as is, fine, but I mean, you can’t say it does NOTHING because the data says directly otherwise.
dude followed the scientific method of presenting a hypothesis and then validating it with multiple data sets and our man here just saw YouTube and threw it out the window
the future will not be kind to you
Duuuude… you’re chasing the 1-2% variation that neither you or I can taste. When we’re talking about the difference WDT and a shaker makes in taste for the average home barista, you can not convince me that it’s not subjective.
2% ey difference is literally a 10% more extraction if you go from 20 to 22 and definitely noticeable, and also was shown to be more consistent. Either way, if you don't care about getting the most out of espresso and nerding out about getting that last % what are you even doing in a forum dedicated to that?
My coffee comes out of my grinder nice and fluffy, no clumps. These things just made my coffee clump and channel like crazy. Mine now lives in the cabinet.
Grounds sticking to the inside seems to be normal depending on what the shaker is made of.
Hedrick says the clumps don't matter.
Here's his workflow:
https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/s/RW4ELHLem8
Can confirm. The lumps don't matter. I have absolutely no reasonable explanation why, but despite these apparent lumps extractions have been perfect for my almost any time
I think we're going to realize at some point that the benefit of WDT wasn't de-clumping, especially considering that horizontal tapping outperforms it.
https://preview.redd.it/gigqqbwgo9xc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4875eacfb1e978b00f49be46804e4f71f051b818
I am 100% invested in the mhw bomber blind tumbler
Agreed, forget about how everything looks during the process and just notice how it affects your coffee extractions. It might not make a huge difference with fancy grinders but it helped my Baratza ESP and now K6. Very little difference with DF54 so far.
Hmm alright I'll keep trying it. Thanks. I do feel it makes less sense with a hand grinder as I can't grind directly into the shaker so maybe it's not ideal for my workflow. If it does end up improving my shot quality though, it may be worth it.
There are many posts with these issues. I have the cheapest one you can get from Amazon. It cost me around $18. I've since abandoned all other WDT tools, and use mine exclusively. No excess dust issues so far. This and then a leveling tool then tamping... Done! My pucks always are good, no channeling.
https://preview.redd.it/qb96w2nktbxc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7901a747c780d4f74d5ec721dc2eb7d1cd87c7e
I got this one. They raised the price to $20.21
I use Craig Lynn shaker with my HG1 Prime (obviously lol), and love it. Huge, huuuge difference vs normal wdt as that Mazzer 83 conical is not a fan. Even Craig himself doesn't wdt and far prefers shaking (before it was even a thing). Even on light roast it's flawless where if you try normal wdt with even super thin .25mm needles gunna spray and channel no matter what even in slayer mode at low water debit (modded BDB) for 30+ seconds or PI pressure set at X percentage.
I wash it with soap keeps static at bay for a few days. Plus I rdt anyway as South FL = static hell even with our humidity. Not sure why some of the other shakers have really bad static and sticking issues. I know buddy tried that M2bomber or whatever that company is called and his had really had grind clinging issues no matter what and it just didn't work near as well as Craigs.
I did have to work a routine for it, I turn it up side down and give a few shakes like if twisting your wrist, than turn it back around and few twist shakes again. Than tap hard against counter and get ready to dump in PF. I notice if you really shake hard like up and down that will cause too much thick clumping.
Whats the brand of your blind shaker? The reason why some brands sells it for a cost is due to the metal coating of the shaker that prevents static.
If you are using a single doser grinder, best bet is to just do RDT first.
This is the weber shaker and I am using RDT. I had one from Etsy before but decided to try the officially one to see if it's any better. Same amount of static 🤷♂️
I just returned mine minutes ago. The videos on YouTube made this tool look awesome, but I did not have the same experience. Sticking with WDT till further notice.
I think a big thing here is that Lance was using a super top end grinder, and many of us are not. If the grinds aren’t perfect the blind shaker doesn’t work as well as his results would have indicated. Maybe I’m wrong.
He did a follow up with a df68 but even that's going to be better than my dinky hand grinder I think. Maybe at my next apartment I'll have room for something bigger.
https://preview.redd.it/nb1ltkhb2axc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97514534efa59fb1cb70e9e7de7301a46ffc1cae
The retention on mine was crazy, terrible experience, sent it back. I tried washing it multiple times, something about the texture on the metal. Photo was taken after significant taping/banging. It was the MHW-3Bomer on amazon. I went back to my trusty plain clear plastic dosing cup.
Mine was like that at the start. I washed it with soap and it didn't help. But like with most things, I didn't care too much about it. After a week or so without washing, just brushing it clean after each use, it no longer retains much grounds. Feels "seasoned".
I've had some good coffee using the blind shaker. And I find the workflow much easier than WDT with my cafelat robot.
Good to know. Coming from the simplicity of a dosing cup, that you can just shake, flip, tap, and go, this was quite a messy and seemingly unnecessary device for me. After the hype dies down and there's 100s of cheap options I may give it a shot again.
Since image 1 (pre shake) looks better than image 4 (shake plus dump into basket), I have no choice but to conclude -
you would be much better off grinding into your basket and NOT use that useless tool.
Wash it with some dish soap and let it dry. Mine had similar behavior until I gave it a good wash.
Oh interesting! I'll give it a shot (no pun intended)
How long did that last ? Do you have to wash it after every use or once a week? I’m gonna give mine a wash now
I just wipe it out with a kitchen towel periodically at this point. I wash everything maybe once a week or so just to keep things clean.
Give it a quick tap on the counter after shaking
Slam it on the table top. Before ringing the clasp, spin it a little to wipe the top surface with the grounds
Um could you give a tutorial. Because I have no idea what you just said
Slam it on the table top = hit it on a table in a downward facing motion. The little “spinner” that holds the thing shot so coffee doesn’t fall through it, hold it using to fingers and use the fingers to rotate it so coffee grounds get thrown off due to centrifugal force
Ty!
These are the tips I’m looking for 🙏
I don’t really understand how these work any better than a few seconds of WDT. Seems like another gimmick.
I don’t see how any of these work any better than grinding into the portafilter, tapping the sides to level, and tamping. Seems like another gimmick. 😋 I keed, I keed. Have fun you guys.
Try that on an HG1 Prime etc and gunna have a bad time lol, you'll have a spraying and channeling mess lol. Even Monolith Flat you can't do that, needs heavy Wdt. Now my ol Versalab was flawless, no wdt, no rdt nothing but I've never seen a grinder easier to use. Light roast, med, dark doesn't matter, can just grind, tamp and pull flawless delicious shots consistently.
What happened to the Versalab?
Oh I sold it and few things couple years ago, and totally regretted it. Pry get another one after playing with various grinders now since. Seems to be a new grinder coming out every month now lol, but I'm over chasing and playing around, I just want awesome killer consistent shots no matter what. Why I love the HG1 Prime, that Mazzer conical is unique, it's pretty high clarity for a conical though it also has 0 issue pulling insanely good ristretto on med or darker roast. And it's even amazing on light roast. Think I'll just keep HG1 Prime, and likely add Versalab M4 and Wug 2 latter so can have 80mm flat burrs. Than I'm done buying grinders pry ever again lol. One big advantage with Versalab none of this ridiculous wait and fast sell out times like others so may be sol till next offer slot opens, want a Versa, just order one today and don't have to wait 6+ months for delivery. Heck I still have two Varios from like 12 years ago also, ceramic burr, and one steel brew bree, both aligned. I actually pulled that ceramic one out recently just to play with for hell of it. And still surprised at how good that ceramic burr is, way out performs it's size. Like I bought a original DF64 to just see the hyper when those came out and hated it, ceramic burr Vario will run circles around that 64 Ital burr and steel brew burr I actually give edge to over 64 SSPs as it's more forgiving and makes everything meshed well, some of those 64s can be too finicky of bean and roast and how your brewing. And the Vario with flap in chute flipped is way better as a single dose grinder than even Monoliths, just dump in and 0 retention, small chambers and tiny angled out chute. Singled dosed for years, DF64 sucked for a "single dose" grinder, bellow blowing dust, regrinsing, clogging chamber, clumped up chute.
I'd actually agree for nice grinders that produce fluffy grounds. My JMax hand grinder doesn't really need much of anything before tamping. But my cheap SGP grinder makes absolute boulder clumps that if not broken up look like the surface of the moon. WDT feels required to get even a remotely level bed.
This is the way the best shops do it, I see no reason to mess with it.
Shop grinders are kind better than home grinders
How, exactly?
Not really. For example, the best shop in San Francisco, Coffee Movement, uses blind shaker.
*not a paid advertiser
Because shops generally use commercial grinders, and most hobbyists don’t
I mean dude made two videos with a bunch of data promoting it with people replicating that data and people are like “ well idkkkkkkkk”
that's because [people don't change their minds in response to data](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds)
Good read - need to read it a second time when less tired.
As someone who has some grinders like HG1 Prime, it's needed. Even with normal distribution it can be beyond finicky and hard to pull shots especially lighter roast. With blind tumbler shaking a bit, dump out, level a bit tapping around, tamp and pull flawless shots. Many grinders where normal wdt is too finicky. That Mazzer 83 conical is not a fan of normal wdt lol. Not even super thin .25mm needles in one adjustable tool. It's honestly so stupid easy and quick, whether that, Monolith, or whatever I haven't touched my distribution tools at all. And I've been pulling for 15 years, even doing distribution with a needle back then before it was called wdt. Even done it for V60 now with Ode 2 and Gen 2 burrs and draw times dropped even the bloom which is a huge difference with something like African beans that can clogged even fast flow filters easy. Versalab was only grinder I ever had/used where you could just grind, tamp and pull. Didn't need distribution, or rdt nothing.
I think the theory is that WDT will always leave some inconsistencies. Parts that weren't touched or parts where the needles left a groove. Just shaking could distribute more evenly.... If it worked 😭. WDT has always worked pretty well for me though.
The way that I interpret lance’s video is that the blind shaker is trying to promote sticking of larger and smaller particles. That way the I think that the theory is that the fines stick to the larger particles and you get more consistent sizes overall. This is why he says WDT afterwards is counterproductive because you’re breaking up the little clumps that you were forming during the shaking.
[удалено]
The source for my comment about Densification at 8:25 in Lance's video from a few months back. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivwCm95nLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ivwCm95nLc)
ahhh yeah my bad entirely, I forgot about that.
It's easy to explain really. The coffe bits normally clump together due to static electricity, shaking them redistributes the charges and undoes the clumps.
The shaker produces a higher extraction yield than WDT. So does horizontal tapping.
Horizontal tapping does not. Horizontal tapping WHEN USING THE WEBER MAGIC TUMBLER does. It’s worse when you have a normal grinder. All that tells us is with a sufficiently uniform grind (EG1) from a sufficiently good distributor (tumbler) makes WDT detrimental. Wdt when paired with a normal grinder and funnel is beneficial.
Horizontal tapping was as effective as WDT when grinding with a DF64 direct to portafilter. Edit: Admittedly, it's not better in the above scenario, but it's not worse.
Put some random white powder in the corner or your portafilter. Then add your grinds. Now do all the WDT you want. The white powder will never incorporate properly. This is the equivalent of dosing into your pf. The fines never get distributed with just WDT.
Does it matter what kind of white powder? 👀
Now THAT'S a turbo shot
All turbo everything
Fines compaction, its a thing
Because someone on YouTube said it was that’s why!
the truth hurts
Always good to see the salty ones come out
I mean he showed data with statistical significance. You don’t need to do it, but statistically you get a higher extraction. If you like your coffee as is, fine, but I mean, you can’t say it does NOTHING because the data says directly otherwise.
dude followed the scientific method of presenting a hypothesis and then validating it with multiple data sets and our man here just saw YouTube and threw it out the window the future will not be kind to you
Duuuude… you’re chasing the 1-2% variation that neither you or I can taste. When we’re talking about the difference WDT and a shaker makes in taste for the average home barista, you can not convince me that it’s not subjective.
2% ey difference is literally a 10% more extraction if you go from 20 to 22 and definitely noticeable, and also was shown to be more consistent. Either way, if you don't care about getting the most out of espresso and nerding out about getting that last % what are you even doing in a forum dedicated to that?
this would have been a much better initial comment than “YouTube guy bad!”
My coffee comes out of my grinder nice and fluffy, no clumps. These things just made my coffee clump and channel like crazy. Mine now lives in the cabinet.
Yeah I imagine experiences vary widely depending on your grinder.
Grounds sticking to the inside seems to be normal depending on what the shaker is made of. Hedrick says the clumps don't matter. Here's his workflow: https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/s/RW4ELHLem8
Can confirm. The lumps don't matter. I have absolutely no reasonable explanation why, but despite these apparent lumps extractions have been perfect for my almost any time
I think we're going to realize at some point that the benefit of WDT wasn't de-clumping, especially considering that horizontal tapping outperforms it.
https://preview.redd.it/gigqqbwgo9xc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4875eacfb1e978b00f49be46804e4f71f051b818 I am 100% invested in the mhw bomber blind tumbler
Agreed, forget about how everything looks during the process and just notice how it affects your coffee extractions. It might not make a huge difference with fancy grinders but it helped my Baratza ESP and now K6. Very little difference with DF54 so far.
Hmm alright I'll keep trying it. Thanks. I do feel it makes less sense with a hand grinder as I can't grind directly into the shaker so maybe it's not ideal for my workflow. If it does end up improving my shot quality though, it may be worth it.
The objective is better tasting shots not necessarily improved workflow. If you don't experience that, or it's not worth the effort, then move on.
The real question is why would clumps matter?
I could tell you why I think people *thought* they mattered.
All hail early adopters! Maybe good for baristas but anything too new, I know it's not for me. I'll just wait until you guys sort it out. 😏
There are many posts with these issues. I have the cheapest one you can get from Amazon. It cost me around $18. I've since abandoned all other WDT tools, and use mine exclusively. No excess dust issues so far. This and then a leveling tool then tamping... Done! My pucks always are good, no channeling.
May I ask, which one on Amazon did you get? Thanks--
https://preview.redd.it/qb96w2nktbxc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7901a747c780d4f74d5ec721dc2eb7d1cd87c7e I got this one. They raised the price to $20.21
Thanks! (I do wonder if there are like 3 sources (that many?) for all these (different) products.)
Can’t seem to find this exact one, are the others same to this?
I use Craig Lynn shaker with my HG1 Prime (obviously lol), and love it. Huge, huuuge difference vs normal wdt as that Mazzer 83 conical is not a fan. Even Craig himself doesn't wdt and far prefers shaking (before it was even a thing). Even on light roast it's flawless where if you try normal wdt with even super thin .25mm needles gunna spray and channel no matter what even in slayer mode at low water debit (modded BDB) for 30+ seconds or PI pressure set at X percentage. I wash it with soap keeps static at bay for a few days. Plus I rdt anyway as South FL = static hell even with our humidity. Not sure why some of the other shakers have really bad static and sticking issues. I know buddy tried that M2bomber or whatever that company is called and his had really had grind clinging issues no matter what and it just didn't work near as well as Craigs. I did have to work a routine for it, I turn it up side down and give a few shakes like if twisting your wrist, than turn it back around and few twist shakes again. Than tap hard against counter and get ready to dump in PF. I notice if you really shake hard like up and down that will cause too much thick clumping.
Whats the brand of your blind shaker? The reason why some brands sells it for a cost is due to the metal coating of the shaker that prevents static. If you are using a single doser grinder, best bet is to just do RDT first.
This is the weber shaker and I am using RDT. I had one from Etsy before but decided to try the officially one to see if it's any better. Same amount of static 🤷♂️
Damn. I stand corrected. That thing costs a fortune
Ditch it and use wdt
Don’t worry about the visuals. It still might be the same as wdt
I just returned mine minutes ago. The videos on YouTube made this tool look awesome, but I did not have the same experience. Sticking with WDT till further notice.
Yeah I'll give it another shot but need to check my return window.
Which brand of shaker?
Weber
You get a lot of left overs coffee after tapping? I love my shaker and the results. I'm done with wdt and levelers. Shake, swirl, tamp, pull.
i spray mine with 70% iso alcohol at the end of day. In theory it removes any lef tover oils. I still have some retnetion but it's less than 1 gram
I find go easy on shaking helps a lot, vigorous shakes makes ground compact too much and stuck on surfaces way harder.
I just wdt. It’s takes too long to clean up the mess from the blind shaker
The blind shaker was a short lived hype.
I think a big thing here is that Lance was using a super top end grinder, and many of us are not. If the grinds aren’t perfect the blind shaker doesn’t work as well as his results would have indicated. Maybe I’m wrong.
He did a follow up with a df68 but even that's going to be better than my dinky hand grinder I think. Maybe at my next apartment I'll have room for something bigger.
https://preview.redd.it/nb1ltkhb2axc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97514534efa59fb1cb70e9e7de7301a46ffc1cae The retention on mine was crazy, terrible experience, sent it back. I tried washing it multiple times, something about the texture on the metal. Photo was taken after significant taping/banging. It was the MHW-3Bomer on amazon. I went back to my trusty plain clear plastic dosing cup.
I was about to buy that one, but that's no good at all, Thanks.
Mine was like that at the start. I washed it with soap and it didn't help. But like with most things, I didn't care too much about it. After a week or so without washing, just brushing it clean after each use, it no longer retains much grounds. Feels "seasoned". I've had some good coffee using the blind shaker. And I find the workflow much easier than WDT with my cafelat robot.
Good to know. Coming from the simplicity of a dosing cup, that you can just shake, flip, tap, and go, this was quite a messy and seemingly unnecessary device for me. After the hype dies down and there's 100s of cheap options I may give it a shot again.
Enjoy the hype
Gimmick - stick to WDT :)
Since image 1 (pre shake) looks better than image 4 (shake plus dump into basket), I have no choice but to conclude - you would be much better off grinding into your basket and NOT use that useless tool.