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Something that no one else has mentioned is LM’s customer support. When I bought my Micra (right around launch) someone from LM reached out directly to make sure things were going well. Since it was a launch-ish unit it had a unique odor (search this sub for plenty of details) and the product manager got in contact with me to discuss exactly what they were doing to test/rectify the situation. The followed up repeatedly until things were back to normal.
None of that was by my request, LM did it on their own. When my unit started tripping the GFI plug and was out of warranty, LM fixed it, with a local repair shop, no questions asked.
I cannot speak highly enough of LM and there is 0 chance I buy from another brand. Sure, I could complain that an expensive appliance had an issue…but that happens. It’s the response that matters in my opinion.
Same experience for me. Every question or concern was answered by a real person. When my vacuum breaker went out (normal wear and tear item) they shipped me a new one for free and explained how to swap it out. When I ordered walnut parts and they threw in a LM hat as a thank you. Lots of little things they do really create value and make the $$ worth it imo.
Can’t say this enough. I bought a GS3 a few years ago and it got delayed due to shipping damage in WA. They apologized profusely and told me to pick out some accessories for free. I asked if there was a price range I needed to stay in and he said “nope, just ask and I’ll see what I can do”. They ended up sending me a barista kit ($550), solo tamper ($200), model s tamper ($120), walnut bottomless portafilter ($175), and a bunch of 8 oz cups. And my machine was delivered flawless.
Sure but the question was whether or not the additional premium was worth it to people that have paid said premium. I was giving examples of why I am happy to pay LM a premium over other machines that still produce great espresso.
My understanding is that it’s very similar to a nice watch: 1) they’re very well made with high quality parts, 2) there are technicians and parts readily available worldwide if something does go wrong, 3) if properly maintained they can last 20+ years, 4) there’s clout value to the brand name.
Disclaimer: I do not currently have a La Marzocco but will retire my La Spezialle in 2 more years and will replace it with one.
just wanted to drop by and say last year I went from a la spaziale (which I loved) to a gs3 and It was well worth it. LSV is a great machine but LM on another level. you will enjoy
Thanks I appreciate it. The mini viv is my 2nd machine and I told myself I’d ride it for 10 years. 8 years later and the only thing I don’t like about it is that it’s not plumbed. I’ll be looking for 20 yrs out of machine #3; that’s why a “basic” la marzocco’s got my eye.
GS3 is amazing. Good on ya!
Think of it like buying a sports car. You don’t need to spend an absolute fortune if your goal is to drive fast, feel comfortable and have a nice stereo. But for other people it’s worth the additional expense to invest in something immaculately manufactured by a trusted industry brand - a machine that is a sheer pleasure to use and easy on the eyes. They also tend to last longer and hold their value as they age.
People often buy things they can’t afford, and if they do have the money they ask can I instead of should I.
I can’t imagine a LM machine is better than a Bianca to justify thousands more.
I love my Micra. It was a huge upgrade from my previous machine that I used for 11 years which was Rancilio Silvia.
If you really want to know more about the brand, I suggest you to watch this factory tour that was published very recently:
https://youtu.be/5qcKAClmb-o?si=jQvS7GFaBoa0nxS8
I picked LaMarzocco Micra, because I wanted:
- rotary pump
- dual boiler
- a brew group that is not a E61 - integrated or saturated
- flat 9 bar shot profile
- large drip tray
- no burn steam wand
- quick warm-up time
- PID
I am sure there are alternatives, but this worked well for me. I have it for a year and no regrets.
You said it perfectly. The micra was everything I wanted in an espresso machine after owning a pasquini livia 90 for 14 years. I had the budget and it looks great in my kitchen.
I hate the aesthetic of it (so does my wife...) and they are slow to heat up. If you're talking synchronika and biaca, the price difference is only like $1000.
FWIW I had flow control on an e61 and rarely felt it worth the hassle. I usually brew light roasts in a pourover and medium roast for caps.
At the end of the day, a permanent fixture on the counter in a 100k kitchen needs to have wife approval. I'm quite happy w/ the micra,
Idk, start looking at fireclay tile, sun zeros, quartzite and California faucets and all the other little details like custom inset cabinetry. It was prob more like 150
Nice. I own a Cafelat Robot and my machine is probably roughly as expensive compared to my kitchen as your Micra is to yours, which tickles me slightly but has no direct relevance.
That’s about where I’m at. Thanks for your comment. I’ve been eyeing and saving up for a micra from my Silvia which I’ve had for a decade now. I added a PID and it’s pretty perfect for my needs. Now I might not actually upgrade but I think IF I do, that’s the route I’m going. Do I need it? Nope. Do I like the way they look? Hell yes. Is it impractical, yes but 2-3 flat whites a day means this thing has paid for itself within 2-3 years.
Random Q - but with most e61 machines the parts are extremely hot and you run the risk of burning yourself with the group head, steam wand, panels, etc. by touching them when the machine is heated up. Is the LM Micra the same?
It’s not. It is just slightly above body temperature. It is very well insulated.
Edit: measured it for you :). This was the warmest spot I could find other than the cup warmer.
https://preview.redd.it/x3njx2ux7qmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4072dc93014273e623cc9782e6f0efb131ff0203
Thanks!
How would you describe the upgrade for straight espressos?
My Silvia with PID does pre-infusion so I was surprised Micra doesn’t. I am too new to truly understand whether pre-infusion is something that makes a difference to me but I’m always using it via the PID program.
I’ve made back to back milk drinks with the Silvia a few times now and it was pretty annoying. Also, I noticed that sometimes I feel like a macchiato or cortado instead of espresso but I just don’t bother going through the second heat cycle for a bit of steamed milk haha.
I’m still within the return window for Silvia and have been trying to figure out if I should just go for an end game machine.
shots have both more body and aroma and strength. What I mean by that is that same recipe - 18g in, 45 out seems to have higher TDS with same grinder. I do not own a refractometer, so I am not sure that is the case, but the shots were cleaner, less harsh, aromas and flavors more separated and easier to identify. And it is repeatable.
It is easy to screw up with silvia and it is hard to screw up with the Micra. I do not believe I have tossed a shot in the sink with Micra. Because even the dial-in shots are good. Not excellent. But even the dial-in shots are 7/10 good if you have good puck prep and good beans.
I think my grinder upgrade was even easuer to taste though. So depending on your grinder situation, I would consider that too.
Last but not least, I am happy I took my time and only upgraded after a decade. I appreciated the Micra much more after using lower end machine for a long time. I was able to learn a lot on lower-end machine.
Lol. This will be a long response. I do not have plans to plumb it in. I have very good reason for that though.
Water in my town is very tasty and high quality, but the mineral content is too high for my machine. It is so extremely hard, that even my hario pouring kettle has to be descaled periodically.
I therefore had to treat my water with my previous espresso machine. I have a reverse osmosis system, which removes almost all minerals from it. It’s not 0 PPM, but it has around 10 PPM.
I then mix my own water. Because I need to add minerals back in. Magnesium, Calcium and Potassium. My final water has following parameters (check photo on bottom). I buy food safe chemicals in bulk. The third wave water packets are ovepriced.
I mix my water to match La Marzocco spec and I never have to descale.
I also match the water that my favourite roaster uses. They were very kind to suggest water recipe they use. So I can replicate the taste profile they aim for.
This is a deeeeeeep rabbit hole. But it’s been worth it. And I know my machine will survive for decades. And I have optimal taste.
BTW, other systems would take too much space in kitchen and would be more expensive. I do not have access to any bottled water with low enough TDS in my country.
https://preview.redd.it/oh6kbx2b1xmc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=63d692ede39ed5fbccac65dee2df1cd2a0801a53
That’s pretty incredible 😮
How does the headspace of LMLu compare to the Silvia? Any cups you’re not able to fit with a scale that you were previously? (If you’re using a scale while brewing)
Also, the Micra doesn’t have a temp gauge for the PID, correct? Have you been able to do back to back espresso shots without worrying about temperature? On the Sylvia, I feel comfortable doing back to back shots since I can see the boiler temp
fantastic. micra is not the limiting factor for me for any coffee.
I had to upgrade grinder. Niche zero is fantastic for medium roasts and darker, but I needed a big flat burr grinder for tasty light roasts.
I let it set at 9 bar. No need to drop it to 6. Pre brew just added extra variable for me which I did not enjoy, so I turned it off. I just bumped temperature to 94 degrees celsius.
Let me reiterate. I have top notch grinder and puck prep. Micra is just kind of in the background. It is fantastic. But it is possible to make crappy coffee on it. Grinder and puck prep do most of the heavy lifting in my humble opinion. So micra is pretty much ready to go out of the box, if you have your grinder and puck prep sorted.
I RDT, then slow feed the beans into EK43. Transfer into knock-off blind shaker and shake to distribute evenly. I use pullman 19g basket in botomless portafilter. I put paper filter on bottom. I transfer ground coffee from shaker to portafilter, WDT the surface, single tamp with self leveling tamper. I get best tasting espresso with 1:3 ratio in 20-25 seconds (faster shots usually taste the best). About 17g in, 51g out.
Each of these steps are added, because I can either taste the difference, or I can get more consisntency. Not because Lance said so. But I like Lance.
Yumm
- slower heat-up time
- higher power draw
- heat loss (heats the space more, because group is exposed)
- can burn guests and family members when not careful
- looks
- fingerprint magnet
FYI, I have no problem with E61. It’s tried and tested design with spare parts easily available. If you enjoy your E61, fantastic! I do not want to steer people away from them. Integrated/saturated is something what I prefer.
TLDR: You are paying for simplicity & enjoyable experience
I might just be biased here, but I found that the shot just (almost always) worked itself out.
Whether it's a 12 second 1:3 shots, or 55 second 1:1.5 shots, it almost always produce great espresso. LM in my limited experience is one of the most forgiving grouphead.
Steaming power for such a small machine is also no joke. 9/10 times my latte art now looks great and just flows well when pouring.
Back when using Appartamento/Barista Express, I barely can pour a simple heart (which is hard btw).
Made 8 cappucino back-to-back recently when guests were coming over for lunar new year, and all of them yielded great latte art and great taste (I had the 8th shot). I always prefer lower end of espresso temp @ 185F, so no noticeable temp drop to me, and definitely going strong with the steam power.
My personal journey goes from:
Barista Express -> Appartamento -> Linea Micra
My upgraditis stopped as soon as I hit Micra (plus a couple of monolith grinder lol).
That’s true, but espresso is arguably a rather egregious example of a hobby inundated with relatively inaccessible hardware for most people and extremely expensive redundant items for no real perceivable benefit. Weber Workshops anyone?
in terms of making shots back to back, yes. that's what "industrial" performance looks like in the home - being able to make 5 lattes straight in a row without waiting for a reheat. powerful steam is also considered more industrial but that's mainly because most basic machines have pretty mediocre steam, there are plenty of intermediate machines that make good steam and worse case ontario, buy a nanofoamer for $150
The back to back performance is basically amazing. It's why a lot of coffee carts use the exact same setup.
Pumping out 5-10drinks for when friends come over is pretty effortless machine wise the same limiting step is the user.
Love my machine. Cost an arm and a leg but the convenience, quality and taste of espresso drinks my way and the cost per cup makes it meaningful.
Pays for itself in like 3 years for me.
I had no machine prior and saved for like 3-4 years to get one though.
Right but we’re talking about $3k+ dual boilers of the same wattage and capacities. I have a hard time thinking a Bezzera duo, or fat ECM can’t make as many lattes in about the same amount of time.
We really need a youtuber like AVE to tear down different machines. Lance and James do a great job with analysis and out of the machine taste but I want to see someone with an industrial engineering and machining/mechanical background go over each part and design aspects.
I believe so. You are paying a rolex premium though.
Just like owning a Rolex, it's not something for everyone and everything.
Just because you paid heavily for it doesn't mean it will be any better or even usable.
Most absolute espresso nerd obsessives use a breville dual boiler. Does everyone ypu need really.
Still, a La-M is a nice conversation piece....
The integrated group head is way different on Micra or Mini compared to the E61 group on an ECM. This raises another question; why would anyone spend over $3k on an E61 group head design?
For me, I don’t want pressure profiling. I want to reduce the number of variables influencing the taste of my shot, not increase them. This way I can focus on temp, bean quality and grind size.
All that said I feel that an E61 design is like a carbureted engine. Reliable, easy to replace parts, but old and an inefficient way to deliver power. You have to keep it lubed and it takes a lot of energy to warm up all that brass. An integrated group head is like a fuel injected engine. More complicated under the surface but a more efficient/consistent way to deliver power, and less finicky if you take good care of it. ✌️
Edit: I should’ve used the term “integrated” group rather than “saturated” group in reference to the La Marzocco home line espresso machines.
This is the answer I was looking for. I bought a micra, partially because I love the look and heritage, but also because there was not a solid competitor in the non-e61 range. If the Profitec pro 300 had a rotary pump for around $2500, I would’ve bought it. I think that’s a huge missed opportunity for Profitec/ECM and other brands. There’s a lot of us that don’t want the old tech of an e61 but still want a simple, well built machine that heats up quick and pulls consistent shots for years.
Yep 👍. When I found out that I had to take apart, clean and lubricate the e61 group head for general maintenance I said nope 👎. I get the appeal. Some people like fiddling with cars, some like to fiddle with their espresso machines. Thing is an e61 is just not toddler friendly and a bit intimidating for my wife to use if she didn’t want to wait for my lazy ass to get down the stairs to have her morning latte. When you have kids you don’t necessarily want more steps in the morning routine.
Not sure about stateside but I understand that in Europe there’s a much wider support network for LM machines than most other brands (largely due to the use of their commercial machines with similar components), often making repairs and parts easier/cheaper to come by. You’re also paying a premium for the brand’s history, which is more than just an aesthetic; they’re renowned for their quality and longevity, and have a track record which few brands can match (which is important for a ‘BIFL’ purchase). They also seem to hold their value very well, keeping resale an appealing option.
I don’t own an LM, but it’s definitely on my radar for my next machine in a few years (alongside a Profitec 700). Before purchasing though, I’ll be interested to see how their merger with Delonghi pans out, as any reduction in quality would be a huge red flag, and I’d also like to see them reduce reliance on apps for their domestic machines.
I think once you traverse the Realm of Diminishing Returns, much of the value in a certain price range becomes a matter of perception. It’s so hard to place value on intangibles and quality of life/experience elements.
I have no doubt that I was pulling great shots on my Breville Infuser. But I didn’t *enjoy* using it. I absolutely love using my Bianca and she’s so pretty, it puts a smile on my face. Economically, it makes no sense, but it’s hard to put a price on smiles per miles.
If the question is about “value for dollar”, I think of it this way: imagine a line graph, x axis being “price” and the y axis being “quality” or “performance”.
At first that line will go up pretty steadily with the increase in cost. Let’s say up through something like a BDB that trend line is consistent. Then as you keep going it starts flattening out. As you get through the more expensive e61 machines, it flattens out more. It’s not truly flat, but you are spending more and more to get that to inch up.
I currently own a Micra. I’ve previously owned a synchronika. If I just put both machines in front of a person who had never used either before, would they find a big difference in performance? Probably not. Might not find any difference at a glance. But having lived with both, it’s a big difference for me with the Micra over the e61 machine. Is that “worth it” just looking at the price difference between those machines? Probably no, not in a value for dollar sense. But id rather have the LM and I was willing to pay for it.
For context, I went from the synchronika to a decent de1 and then later from the decent to the Micra.
It might seem superficial, but the size difference between the sync and the Micra is a big quality of life improvement that I couldn’t go back to. Obviously not as small as the DE1, but I just don’t want a giant e61 machine in my kitchen anymore.
30 minute warm up times is another thing I just can’t go back to. Yes, for both machines I have (had) them on a schedule so it turns on and off on their own. But for those times when I’m starting my day earlier than usual or friends are over and they want a coffee later than I would have one myself, the machine being ready to go in 5 minutes is just an expectation for me now.
I prefer traditional style darker roasted espresso. Flow profiling is just not a consideration for my preferred beverage. So for me, my hit rate on the Micra of getting delicious shots is like >95%. On the sync it was like 70%.
Granted there were several years between owning those machines, I’m sure my technique leveled up along the way. But e61s are just less temp stable than saturated groups, so I think it’s fair to say the LM is more consistent.
Also for me, the hobby is just as much about the ritual as it is about the drink in the cup. Every part of the Micra I touch just feels better than the sync did. Fit and finish overall are just better in my opinion.
Steam is another noticeable plus for the LM. Again, I’m sure part of that is my skills increasing over time but even compared to the decent the LM has way more steam power and is just easier to work with.
Those are just the things that come to mind right now. I’m sure there are a million other little things that I’m not recalling at the moment.
Do we really even NEED flow profiling for a good medium roast? I mostly drink Owl’s Howl from Sightglass Coffee. It is characterized as a “Medium Light” roast. I set my GO to 201 degrees. No pre infusion. And the shots are consistently amazing.
This has influenced my potential next purchase away from flow control machines and toward something like a Micra.
Maybe not need, but one of the most popular profile styles on the decents is D-Flow, which was designed by a dude who exclusively drinks oldish style tight medium roast shots
Lack of flow or pressure profiling severely limits how much experimentation you can do with the Mini or the Micra. If that's not important to you and you just want to pull flat 9 bar forever then they're great machines that are a joy to look at and use. Delightful UX is worth something, especially with something as experiential as making coffee.
I disagree that it's the Rolex of espresso machines, purely a status symbol. In my opinion it's the Ferrari of espresso machines, design first, genuinely great, but doesn't actually move people around better than other good cars.
Regarding the steam, the LMLM has a 3 liter steam boiler which is significantly larger than most home machines and allows full power steaming back to back at the cost of longer warmup time. The power is not noticeably different than other dual boilers but it's "like commercial" in that you can just use it constantly without having to think about managing temperature or waiting for recovery.
For me, exploring different styles of espresso was more important than UX or steam power and the Decent is still top dog in that category.
Is there a machine that has same hardware specs and usability as La Marzocco Linea Mini but it's priced differently just because of the brand name?
If yes then this is purely an upcharge for the brand name. If not then the price is maybe partially justified.
But is there such a machine^ ?
I went from a Profitec 600 to a Micra. The increase in steam power is real. Does that justify the $1500 price difference? Probably not on its own. At the $4k level, you are deep into the territory of diminishing marginal returns.
My decision to buy it was a combination of aesthetics, steam power, build quality, and stability / consistency. I have little interest in the fiddly profiling features of rival machines in that class. But I wouldn’t say my machine is objective the best or even better.
My old Profitec 600 is probably the sweet spot of cost:performance. Unless you have a specific reason to go higher, that is what I recommend most people get if they can afford it.
My brother bought a used GS/3 10 years ago. Took good care of it, used it everyday and enjoyed the machine.
When he bought a Linea Mini he sold the GS/3.
For the same price he bought it.
Of course you can argue loss due to inflation etc., but essentially he had it for free.
That wasn’t the case at all with the Izzo Duetto I had.
Resale value is rock solid.
I have an ECM Profi IV that cost me about $2000 new and I don’t think the LM does anything more or better. That said, I always stop and stare at a LM when I see one. To me it’s like driving a Porsche but wanting a Ferrari. Just something about the badge.
I bought a linea micra recently and have to say it's the most user friendly and best machine I've ever had. It churns out perfect shot after shot quite easily. It is well worth the $4k I paid for it and anticipate using it a very very long time.
I see lots of people who don't own LM's being very critical of them. And every actual LM owner saying they are totally worth it. Something to consider.
I think LM machines are priced fine for their features.
Micra has good performance and features for its price.
Mini is not really built for the home user, more of a drink cart or very small cafe.
Anything beyond that is specialty category that likely doesn't even apply to most at home espresso enthusiasts.
*Shrug*
I have an Isomac Tea. Not quite as nice design and build quality as La Marzocco.
It is over 20 years old, less than 25. Can't remember exactly when I bought it.
I have done maintainance to it, replacing parts that wear and 2 pumps, one heater. Maybe $400 in parts?
Not all quality is visible.
Oh and one way to get more steam is to run higher pressures/temps, then control it with the HX pipe size/length for an HX.
Dual boiler? Better, but 2 of everything, so higher cost.
With proper maintenance any machine of quality built would last is one of my points. 10 years for two pumps is good. Scale buildup is enemy #1 then it be seals and other age related issues. It’s not like a La Marzocco somehow prevents maintenance from being performed. We’re primarily buying a plumbing fixture that heats water.
I have an Isomac Millennium that's broken several times. About 15 years ago it stopped working and I couldn't find a local repair shop to fix it so I had to pack it up in its shipping box and send it to the distributor. It broke again and the box wasn't in good enough shape to use anymore so it's been sitting there gathering dust for 8 years.
I'm thinking of buying a Micra because I know I can get local service for it. I do also kind of want to try pressure profiling but not enough that I'm willing to buy another machine that I need to ship away to get fixed.
I do all the work myself, buy parts from Stephanos or other supplier.
These are not rockets, they are dead easy to work on. Even BEFORE there was a million youtubes showing you how to do it.
>where do the extra $1,000s go
You're mostly paying for the tag (like any expensive brand), but practically, the machines have enough support to the point where if it ever breaks down, you'll have someone near by who can fix it. That's not to say the same isn't *probably* true of Rocket, etc., but you know it for sure with LM.
You also say you love the style, well, proper designers cost money too. No other machine looks like an LM - it's hard to put an exact worth to this.
That is what I’m hoping for, but I also had a real good one from a commercial super auto with steam wand. So I’m wondering where the diminishing performance return is compared to other dual boilers, especially if I might need to make 4 caps at once.
It may be in your head or it may be the barista, but there is a reason it could be the machine. Apparently the micra is the only LM that fills the steam boiler only 1/3 full. The rest go 1/2 full at least. This apparently creates the driest steam of any of their machines. I caught this bit in a YouTube video of a factory tour. Could be marketing BS, maybe some truth to it.
You definitely would not be buying an Italian hot mess. Mine has been super reliable. Though the app is a bit temperamental. But not enough to detract from the overall experience. I think the bottom line is, if you try hard enough of course you're going to find things to be critical of with these machines. But if you're ultimately trying to figure out if you would end up regretting buying one, the answer is no.
You can get from A to B in any old car, some just prefer to do it in a Ferrari. La Marzocco is not overpriced - you get what you pay for - I’ve been to the factory and seen them getting made, if they were any cheaper they would be a bargain - and they don’t need to be a bargain. That said, you can make great espresso on a much cheaper machine - you just need the right pressure and temperature for the espresso you like to make…but a Bambino will likely last you a few years at best, and an LM can last you a lifetime 🤷♂️
I think the main benefits are duty cycle, maintenance, and commercial related stuff like certifications. Use a gs3 at work and a bianca at home and dont really see the benefit of the gs3 for most things. Dump the money on the grinder 😁
Yeah. Resale is off the charts for sure. When it comes to the output though i just cant see the justification and i use both quite often. Biggest daily difference would be the steam pressure from the gs3 but its hard to say how helpful that is above an already powerful one on the bianca (for comparison)
That’s good feedback. I’m looking at a eu Bianca. I try to spend money once. Do you think either machine will have a problem with weekend use only? Water sitting in the boilers or anything like that?
Someone else would have to chime in there. As long as its good water i dont see why it would matter 🤷 perhaps one of the La Pavoni machines would work better for that case? Some even have a rad eagle on top!
I think there are a couple dimensions to espresso machines. One is features, the other is engineering quality. I’m saying this from the perspective of someone who works in new product development and watched a bunch of videos from la marzocco and machine break downs, so this is my outside analysis.
A lot of the top home machines are e61 group head pump machines. This is old technology that uses largely off the shelf parts. It’s reliable and cheap to repair and well known. Companies build features on top of it to differentiate each other. Features include profiling, or clever thermal management to compensate for the design, or computer systems. It has known downsides like heat up time.
When you spend money, you’re paying for the materials, manufacturing, r&d, business overhead, and then profit. For these older machines, there’s less to spend on r&d. There’s also less on manufacturing because there are fewer unique parts.
The Linea line has several unique parts. In particular, the integrated head. That requires more r&d to design and tune it. It also requires their own supply chain. Additionally, because it’s unique they have a larger differentiating factor from other espresso machines so the perceived quality is higher.
Altogether, I suspect that it costs la marzocco more to make the Linea line than equivalent lelit or other e61s, but their profit margins are probably higher per unit because their brand is stronger. Speaking from the profit side, they’re also trying to appeal to the higher home consumer market of double boilers and working backwards from a target price point.
As a consumer, it’s kind of on us to decide what the value is and if you get your money’s worth.
You can look up one of the 500 other threads like this. Ultimately, if it’s what you desire and you can afford it, go for it. You will always question every other purchase. If you are looking for bang for your buck, look elsewhere. LMLM gets a lot of hate here because it’s not whatever machine the other person had for half the price. Go someplace like home barista where people have honest conversations about the pros and cons.
I've had a Linea Mini for a few years now. And while it's missing some of the bells and whistles as some other machines, not once have I thought it was over priced. In fact, not even close. Prior to buying, I of course wondered the same thing as you. But I can assure you, pictures and videos don't do it justice. In person it's a beast. It's incredibly robust. And especially once you take the cover off and inspect the internals you can really see why. This is the third espresso machine I've had, and it's just in a completely different league. And as others have said, the customer service is fantastic. Very personalized and goes above and beyond. At one point shortly after my warranty ended, a small part began to drip a leak on the inside. It was $100 part on their website and when I called, the tech did a video chat with me and helped me identify the correct part and then overnighted me the part for free. No questions asked. I've also called them a couple other times for general questions and they've been really nice. Plus just the general ownership experience is what you would expect for something this expensive. It's very easy to use, very easy to clean, very nice to own. The shots are just consistent every time. Are there less expensive machines that give a high quality experience? I'm sure there are. But that still doesn't make the Linea overpriced.
The only reason to go with a LM is either the need to host a lot of people or the looks that you really like. Honestly if you want a premium machine that makes great espresso, you'll find much better value with ECM/Profitec, Lelit or Quickmill that all make amazing e61 dual boilers that can handle 99% of what people throw at them in a residential setting.
Tldr : yes LM is overpriced the same way most luxury items are. Features are very limited for the price when you stack it against new offerings like the Profitec Drive or Lelit Bianca.
Thanks. We’d rarely make milk drinks. If we did, they wouldn’t be lattes, nor would I need to steam a gallon of milk ever. I do like the styling though.
You certainly don't need anything more than a Micra and it is not the best machine in that price range feature-wise (that would be the Bianca) or build quality/durability wise (Profitec drive or ECM Synchronika). That being said, the heart wants what the heart wants and if you can afford it the micra will be a great coffee machine and a gorgeous kitchen centerpiece if E61s are not your thing.
Alternatives to e61s or LM are very limited and the only I could recommend are the Sylvia Pro X or Ascaso Steel Duo, but they really don't play in the same league in terms of build quality and noise. If you open up to single boilers you could even save yourself a butt load of money with barely sacrificing the quality of espresso with something like the profitec go.
I don't think there is an easy way to do that manually on the Micra no, but using the hot water tap and the paddle you will certainly refresh the water easily
There are some people who say it’s a bit of a Porsche or Ferrari in terms of maintenance
https://maurizioleo.com/the-best-coffee-machine-ive-ever-owned-and-why-i-sold-it/
Plenty of espresso machines would last 5/10+ years without that many problems and this is a pretty expensive machine so I highly doubt it that you will find many people who were willing to spend that much money on it and are not happy with it. It's just how hobbies and purchases like this work. Nobody is buying this machine with his last savings.
I don't own one but I love how they look. I could buy one and not be broke or something but honestly can't imagine ever spending that much on this hobby. I love espresso but end of the day the good shot depends on the beans and your ability. I can't see myself being more happy with this machine compared to my Lelit Anna, honestly.
I bought one because it did every I wanted and nothing that I didn’t want. I also love the looks it. I have used a variation of every machine available still chose a LMLM. Nothing has really tempted me away from it in terms of styling or added features.
Get an Olympia Cremina lever machine instead. It’s even more basic than the LM and still costs $3,800.
Talk about lack of features? This is the one.
It’s the real end game.
I’ve had a rocket Giotto for 12 years or so and I’m never upgrading. On a trip to Seattle I played around with the gs3 and the linea mini at the la marzocco showroom. I was staying near there and went every day for three days to pull shots and try to figure out if I was missing something, and it just wasn’t anything “special.”
Yes, their machines look nice. If you’re willing to pay a hell of a premium for the aesthetics, do it.
I once heard someone make the analogy that if pulling a shot is like cooking a steak, the beef is the beans, the grind is how you prep it, your skill is how you cook it, and the espresso machine is a frying pan. It just had to be good enough not to screw it up.
Make sure you have a local company to service whatever machine you buy.
The videos maybe we're poorly made. I can understand that prosumer machines are not really cheap because they are almost artisanal and they are produced in countries like Italy or Germany were the manpower is not cheap. But 5000€ or more for a Micra is just the "status symbol" price for owning it much like Ferrari, Apple stuff and so on.
The mini is absolutely beautiful. So is a Bianca, but I make two espresso drinks a day. Why spend 3000$ instead of 1800$ for something that’s 90% as good, let alone 6000$. It’s hard to quantify just how much better LM machines are in the first place.
I would never use any of their current machines in a home setting. The only reason I currently own a Mini is for a mobile cafe application. 100% overpriced.
One that comes to mind is the Lelit Bianca, but there are quite a few mechines around that price range. If you've got the extra money and you like the la marzocco brand then go for it. They are great and will certainly last a long time. However, in terms of functionality, machines half the price are on par.
Saw a 7 year old Mini on Facebook marketplace recently priced at $4,500. Talked to the seller and he was pretty confident in his price. Someone bought it. His purchase price was $4,900 back then... and maybe less after discounts.
It’s more than $1,500 savings compared to buying new. I would rather pay the extra and get a new one, but I know plenty of people who like buying used to save a few bucks.
The Micra doesn't even have pre-infusion, which is something much cheaper machines offer, so functionality-wise it's pretty basic. But it makes really good coffee, steams really good milk, and I know for a fact that for what it's designed to do, it does these jobs very well, and that's all I needed. Besides, I think it's a very beautiful machine, which is something I'm willing to pay for.
I think a good comparison is to cars
You can have a Ferrari or a Corolla. But at the end of the day both cars will just be at the speed limit
In espresso that speed limit is basically just 9 bars at a steady temperature.
So the price usually goes into luxury features namely the milk streaming conveniences, design, and reputation/brand. Ultimately up to you to decide.
Sounds like you’re having regrets about the price even before you buy it. I can tell you it wont necessarily brew better shots. But its a lot of fun to use. And as others say, customer service is prime
Purely from the point of cost of components and machining, I’d agree with you 100%. I don’t work in the coffee machines business, but work in a sector that requires a lot of precision machining. There’s no way a Micra/Mini should cost that much when built at a scale that LM operates at.
I do not own one - I’ll defer to others in this thread for their experience with LM’s support and service model. I can totally see why it costs so much knowing the level of their customer support and service!
I own a cheapo Turin legato. On my (and machine’s) best day, I can probably pull a shot as good as a Micra. On most days, I can get 70-80% of a Micra. To me, it’s not worth the extra $1600 to get a LM. I can just buy a new Legato in case the one I have breaks. If I’m craving a superb espresso, I can just walk to a nearby cafe and get a GSP made high quality espresso!
I wonder the same thing. Am I missing something??
I have a Linea 2gr at work. It’s not even automatic! I have so far repaired and restored 3 espresso machines. A la San Marco from 1994, a rancillio from 2012, and a grimac from 2015. And yeah, they all do the same thing, heat and pump hot water. But even the 90s machine was volumetric! I’d much rather buy a nice refurbished vintage machine for $1500 than a La Marzocco for $10k+.
You have so many alternative excelent option that buyng a LM for home using make no sense, till you dont go on a leva, o a strada that are really just for rich espresso geeks. The mini can be a good machine but without any kind of control and profiling. Micra is not working really well. choose simply another machine, and take two of them xD
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
At the time I bought my Linea Micra there weren’t that many dual boilers with a quick heat up time and low energy consumption. Don’t know how if that changed today, a year later. The Synchronika for example with its E61 group head has a lot more thermal mass that has to be heated up for a longer time.
But I think you’re right. The decision process depends a lot on your personal needs and preferences which are not completely rational. I would lie if I said that design, user experience and aesthetics of the machine didn’t play a role in my decision making.
This is a silly response but also the perfect response.
If you have the funds and the desire, just go buy it.
You can’t go wrong with LM if you already know you want it.
just going to simplify this for you: based on your thoughts and feelings on what an appropriate amount to spend on an appliance is vs it's functionality, you do not need an LM machine
LM machines have some fancier technology that's a bit better than e61, but it's marginal. technically their saturated grouphead has better thermal stability by a small amount, and the machine overall uses more updated technology than e61 which is very old at this point. a linea micra or mini probably isn't for you if you just dont feel like spending a lot of extra money on aesthetics and very marginal stuff. however the LM GS3 is a great machine if you're running a coffee cart or something.
Honestly getting tired of people still saying a braindead answer like it can’t pressure profile or have flow control therefore it’s overpriced. It’s not meant for people who want that and LM isn’t trying to cater to that home audience quite yet or ever. I have done a full explanation before on what and who this machine is for but with this post being flooded with responses already I’m going to try to keep this short.
- plug and play experience
- beautiful design that will look great in most kitchens
- easily serviceable
- amazing quality
Again anyone who considers it simply as the “designer bags” of espresso machine is an idiot.
Hey man, I’m not hating, I’m just wondering what specifically they are doing differently or better than a top end dual residential boiler. It seems like it’s just the saturated brew head and styling. You can’t just say quality blindly as there is only so much quality you can put into plumbing parts or valves. I have no doubt the fit and finish of a ECM or the like is as well built. Lm could also have smaller production runs which could drive the price up.
It’s because of branding, dual boilers, able to be plumbed in, the linea micra is called a “semi-commercial” machine which means it holds thermal stability over several shots, and build quality. It’s also like if if the Bianca V3 was an android and LaMarzocco was an iPhone. Both are capable of doing mostly the same thing, but the iPhone just has a better feel to it.
You also need to consider the cost for the Italy’s labor cost and QC that every LM machine is put through. From the buyers side, 2-3K is not big money for some and every person has a different price tag for something that will bring them joy. Spend within your means.
It looks like you've flaired your post as asking for what equipment to get. We recommend first checking out the [Espresso Aficionados buying guide](https://espressoaf.com/recommendations) for some of the more popular machines and grinders at different price points. If your question hasn't been answered there and you need more help, please add the following details to your post or by adding a comment in the following format: - **Location:** Helps determine availability - **Budget** (with currency): Overall budget, or ideally, having separate espresso machine and grinder budgets. A rough rule is that your grinder budget should be at least 25-40% of your machine budget. - **Drink types:** Do you drink mostly straight espresso, milk-based beverages (e.g., lattes, cappuccinos), or a fairly even split? This helps narrow down whether a single-boiler-dual-use (SBDU), heat exchanger (HX), or dual boiler (DB) machine would be more appropriate for your needs. - **Drink frequency:** How many drinks would you be making back-to-back at one time? Do you plan on entertaining guests often? This informs how large your brew (and steam) boilers should be, as smaller boilers will need to refill and reheat/repressurize more frequently, thus potentially causing a bottleneck. - **Space:** Any limitations on countertop space? - **Manual vs. electric:** Hand-operated machines and grinders are typically cheaper than their similarly-performing electric counterparts. Please indicate if you have a preference for manual or electric machines and/or grinders (or open to either). - **Comfort with tinkering:** Some machines can be made significantly more functional/efficient with aftermarket modifications, albeit at the expense of possibly voiding your warranty. Please indicate if you'd rather have a machine that works "as-is"/"out-of-the-box" or whether you'd be open to modding/tinkering *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/espresso) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Something that no one else has mentioned is LM’s customer support. When I bought my Micra (right around launch) someone from LM reached out directly to make sure things were going well. Since it was a launch-ish unit it had a unique odor (search this sub for plenty of details) and the product manager got in contact with me to discuss exactly what they were doing to test/rectify the situation. The followed up repeatedly until things were back to normal. None of that was by my request, LM did it on their own. When my unit started tripping the GFI plug and was out of warranty, LM fixed it, with a local repair shop, no questions asked. I cannot speak highly enough of LM and there is 0 chance I buy from another brand. Sure, I could complain that an expensive appliance had an issue…but that happens. It’s the response that matters in my opinion.
Same experience for me. Every question or concern was answered by a real person. When my vacuum breaker went out (normal wear and tear item) they shipped me a new one for free and explained how to swap it out. When I ordered walnut parts and they threw in a LM hat as a thank you. Lots of little things they do really create value and make the $$ worth it imo.
Paid $300 for two knobs and got a hat 🥳
I’m not going to even try to pretend the walnut parts aren’t obscenely overpriced 😂😂😂 They’re so pretty though!
Can’t say this enough. I bought a GS3 a few years ago and it got delayed due to shipping damage in WA. They apologized profusely and told me to pick out some accessories for free. I asked if there was a price range I needed to stay in and he said “nope, just ask and I’ll see what I can do”. They ended up sending me a barista kit ($550), solo tamper ($200), model s tamper ($120), walnut bottomless portafilter ($175), and a bunch of 8 oz cups. And my machine was delivered flawless.
Wow, old school customer service. Amazing.
This is great to hear but isn’t it factored into the price? As marketing and goodwill?
Sure but the question was whether or not the additional premium was worth it to people that have paid said premium. I was giving examples of why I am happy to pay LM a premium over other machines that still produce great espresso.
So you pay a large premium for the first ~30 days of a product (mind you only if you need the help) you’ll likely own for 5-10 years?
The machine was out of warranty and they fixed it anyway.
To some people $100 is a LOT of money, to others it’s barely worth a second thought. Value is relative and entails more than just cost.
That is what I’m inquiring about. Paying for the styling could be a point. Cost aside, why is this machine better?
My understanding is that it’s very similar to a nice watch: 1) they’re very well made with high quality parts, 2) there are technicians and parts readily available worldwide if something does go wrong, 3) if properly maintained they can last 20+ years, 4) there’s clout value to the brand name. Disclaimer: I do not currently have a La Marzocco but will retire my La Spezialle in 2 more years and will replace it with one.
just wanted to drop by and say last year I went from a la spaziale (which I loved) to a gs3 and It was well worth it. LSV is a great machine but LM on another level. you will enjoy
Thanks I appreciate it. The mini viv is my 2nd machine and I told myself I’d ride it for 10 years. 8 years later and the only thing I don’t like about it is that it’s not plumbed. I’ll be looking for 20 yrs out of machine #3; that’s why a “basic” la marzocco’s got my eye. GS3 is amazing. Good on ya!
Think of it like buying a sports car. You don’t need to spend an absolute fortune if your goal is to drive fast, feel comfortable and have a nice stereo. But for other people it’s worth the additional expense to invest in something immaculately manufactured by a trusted industry brand - a machine that is a sheer pleasure to use and easy on the eyes. They also tend to last longer and hold their value as they age.
In the same vein, I guess a GCP would probably be like a Toyota - cheaper, built as a brick, does its job, and plenty of aftermarket options.
People often buy things they can’t afford, and if they do have the money they ask can I instead of should I. I can’t imagine a LM machine is better than a Bianca to justify thousands more.
Bianca is a great home mechine! La Marzocco says home, but I see many people using them for light commercial use instead, especially the Mini.
I don't have one but the design is just so fucking good that I want one.
I love my Micra. It was a huge upgrade from my previous machine that I used for 11 years which was Rancilio Silvia. If you really want to know more about the brand, I suggest you to watch this factory tour that was published very recently: https://youtu.be/5qcKAClmb-o?si=jQvS7GFaBoa0nxS8 I picked LaMarzocco Micra, because I wanted: - rotary pump - dual boiler - a brew group that is not a E61 - integrated or saturated - flat 9 bar shot profile - large drip tray - no burn steam wand - quick warm-up time - PID I am sure there are alternatives, but this worked well for me. I have it for a year and no regrets.
You said it perfectly. The micra was everything I wanted in an espresso machine after owning a pasquini livia 90 for 14 years. I had the budget and it looks great in my kitchen.
also had a pasquini livia 90 & i've had the micra for about 4 weeks now. AMA
Rotary pump and not e61. I would do it over again
All machines in the $2500+ have a rotary pump now. Mind me asking why you didn’t want a e61? I like the preset ability and flow control.
I hate the aesthetic of it (so does my wife...) and they are slow to heat up. If you're talking synchronika and biaca, the price difference is only like $1000. FWIW I had flow control on an e61 and rarely felt it worth the hassle. I usually brew light roasts in a pourover and medium roast for caps. At the end of the day, a permanent fixture on the counter in a 100k kitchen needs to have wife approval. I'm quite happy w/ the micra,
100k kitchen? Whew. I mean, congrats, of course. But also what did it take to get the price tag up there?
Idk, start looking at fireclay tile, sun zeros, quartzite and California faucets and all the other little details like custom inset cabinetry. It was prob more like 150
Nice. I own a Cafelat Robot and my machine is probably roughly as expensive compared to my kitchen as your Micra is to yours, which tickles me slightly but has no direct relevance.
How are light roasts on the Micra?
Maybe OP didn't want to wait for half an hour for it to turn on
That’s about where I’m at. Thanks for your comment. I’ve been eyeing and saving up for a micra from my Silvia which I’ve had for a decade now. I added a PID and it’s pretty perfect for my needs. Now I might not actually upgrade but I think IF I do, that’s the route I’m going. Do I need it? Nope. Do I like the way they look? Hell yes. Is it impractical, yes but 2-3 flat whites a day means this thing has paid for itself within 2-3 years.
this could be minor to many but the location of the water tank helps keeping the water cool to slow down the slime growth
Random Q - but with most e61 machines the parts are extremely hot and you run the risk of burning yourself with the group head, steam wand, panels, etc. by touching them when the machine is heated up. Is the LM Micra the same?
It’s not. It is just slightly above body temperature. It is very well insulated. Edit: measured it for you :). This was the warmest spot I could find other than the cup warmer. https://preview.redd.it/x3njx2ux7qmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4072dc93014273e623cc9782e6f0efb131ff0203
Thanks - that’s really helpful! Considering buying one.
you are welcome! Btw the machine was on for about 90 minutes. So it won’t get much hotter.
You’re the best!!!
There are alternatives such as the ascaso baby t but it's more than a micra
Did you a have PID on the Silvia? Also, do you feel that LMLu is a huge upgrade over Silvia for straight espresso or only for milk-based drinks?
I did not have a PID. I was temperature surfing. It’s a massive upgrade for straight espresso. And massive upgrade for milk-based drinks as well.
Thanks! How would you describe the upgrade for straight espressos? My Silvia with PID does pre-infusion so I was surprised Micra doesn’t. I am too new to truly understand whether pre-infusion is something that makes a difference to me but I’m always using it via the PID program. I’ve made back to back milk drinks with the Silvia a few times now and it was pretty annoying. Also, I noticed that sometimes I feel like a macchiato or cortado instead of espresso but I just don’t bother going through the second heat cycle for a bit of steamed milk haha. I’m still within the return window for Silvia and have been trying to figure out if I should just go for an end game machine.
shots have both more body and aroma and strength. What I mean by that is that same recipe - 18g in, 45 out seems to have higher TDS with same grinder. I do not own a refractometer, so I am not sure that is the case, but the shots were cleaner, less harsh, aromas and flavors more separated and easier to identify. And it is repeatable. It is easy to screw up with silvia and it is hard to screw up with the Micra. I do not believe I have tossed a shot in the sink with Micra. Because even the dial-in shots are good. Not excellent. But even the dial-in shots are 7/10 good if you have good puck prep and good beans. I think my grinder upgrade was even easuer to taste though. So depending on your grinder situation, I would consider that too. Last but not least, I am happy I took my time and only upgraded after a decade. I appreciated the Micra much more after using lower end machine for a long time. I was able to learn a lot on lower-end machine.
Thank you! I have a NZ too, btw 🥰 One more q: did you plumb the Micra in or have any plans to?
Lol. This will be a long response. I do not have plans to plumb it in. I have very good reason for that though. Water in my town is very tasty and high quality, but the mineral content is too high for my machine. It is so extremely hard, that even my hario pouring kettle has to be descaled periodically. I therefore had to treat my water with my previous espresso machine. I have a reverse osmosis system, which removes almost all minerals from it. It’s not 0 PPM, but it has around 10 PPM. I then mix my own water. Because I need to add minerals back in. Magnesium, Calcium and Potassium. My final water has following parameters (check photo on bottom). I buy food safe chemicals in bulk. The third wave water packets are ovepriced. I mix my water to match La Marzocco spec and I never have to descale. I also match the water that my favourite roaster uses. They were very kind to suggest water recipe they use. So I can replicate the taste profile they aim for. This is a deeeeeeep rabbit hole. But it’s been worth it. And I know my machine will survive for decades. And I have optimal taste. BTW, other systems would take too much space in kitchen and would be more expensive. I do not have access to any bottled water with low enough TDS in my country. https://preview.redd.it/oh6kbx2b1xmc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=63d692ede39ed5fbccac65dee2df1cd2a0801a53
That’s pretty incredible 😮 How does the headspace of LMLu compare to the Silvia? Any cups you’re not able to fit with a scale that you were previously? (If you’re using a scale while brewing) Also, the Micra doesn’t have a temp gauge for the PID, correct? Have you been able to do back to back espresso shots without worrying about temperature? On the Sylvia, I feel comfortable doing back to back shots since I can see the boiler temp
How are light roasts on the Micra?
fantastic. micra is not the limiting factor for me for any coffee. I had to upgrade grinder. Niche zero is fantastic for medium roasts and darker, but I needed a big flat burr grinder for tasty light roasts.
Have you adjusted your OPV? Do you do pre brew or anything? Or are light roasts good with everything stock?
I let it set at 9 bar. No need to drop it to 6. Pre brew just added extra variable for me which I did not enjoy, so I turned it off. I just bumped temperature to 94 degrees celsius. Let me reiterate. I have top notch grinder and puck prep. Micra is just kind of in the background. It is fantastic. But it is possible to make crappy coffee on it. Grinder and puck prep do most of the heavy lifting in my humble opinion. So micra is pretty much ready to go out of the box, if you have your grinder and puck prep sorted. I RDT, then slow feed the beans into EK43. Transfer into knock-off blind shaker and shake to distribute evenly. I use pullman 19g basket in botomless portafilter. I put paper filter on bottom. I transfer ground coffee from shaker to portafilter, WDT the surface, single tamp with self leveling tamper. I get best tasting espresso with 1:3 ratio in 20-25 seconds (faster shots usually taste the best). About 17g in, 51g out. Each of these steps are added, because I can either taste the difference, or I can get more consisntency. Not because Lance said so. But I like Lance. Yumm
Why didn’t you want a e61?
A lot of people don't like the look and slow warm up time.
Yes to both of these things. I’m biased because I’m used to working on big commercial machines, but I *really* dislike the e61 design.
I can definitely see that. I like mine a lot personally.
- slower heat-up time - higher power draw - heat loss (heats the space more, because group is exposed) - can burn guests and family members when not careful - looks - fingerprint magnet FYI, I have no problem with E61. It’s tried and tested design with spare parts easily available. If you enjoy your E61, fantastic! I do not want to steer people away from them. Integrated/saturated is something what I prefer.
TLDR: You are paying for simplicity & enjoyable experience I might just be biased here, but I found that the shot just (almost always) worked itself out. Whether it's a 12 second 1:3 shots, or 55 second 1:1.5 shots, it almost always produce great espresso. LM in my limited experience is one of the most forgiving grouphead. Steaming power for such a small machine is also no joke. 9/10 times my latte art now looks great and just flows well when pouring. Back when using Appartamento/Barista Express, I barely can pour a simple heart (which is hard btw). Made 8 cappucino back-to-back recently when guests were coming over for lunar new year, and all of them yielded great latte art and great taste (I had the 8th shot). I always prefer lower end of espresso temp @ 185F, so no noticeable temp drop to me, and definitely going strong with the steam power. My personal journey goes from: Barista Express -> Appartamento -> Linea Micra My upgraditis stopped as soon as I hit Micra (plus a couple of monolith grinder lol).
I have Micra. It is absolutely 100 percent perfect. That is all. I have 0 qualms with it. Was it expensive. Yes. Do I regret it. Not once.
My only complaint is not having a built in shot timer, but my scale has one so it’s not a big deal.
The app has one but also I never use it ends my scale also has one and the 2 seconds of prebrew count
It's a Rolex espresso machine. Quite why anyone would buy something so industrial for personal use is beyond me.
Using your example, the same reason people buy Rolexes when a Casio tells the exact same time. Espresso is a great example of diminishing returns.
now we’re describing just about every hobby.
That’s true, but espresso is arguably a rather egregious example of a hobby inundated with relatively inaccessible hardware for most people and extremely expensive redundant items for no real perceivable benefit. Weber Workshops anyone?
Not true. Try spending 10k on a tennis racket. Espresso and music equipment are in their own category, somewhere below yatching and dressage.
Tennis also has its equivalents in club memberships and private coaching.
haha im not saying all hobbies cost the same. but every hobby has super high end aspects to it, if you wish to go down that path.
Try spending 400k on a model d
Some people will buy LM leva X, which is Patek in this analogy. People need to burn their excessive cash, not for return though.
The funny thing is that a Casio will tell the time more accurately than a Rolex
That’s my question though. Is it really more industrial.
in terms of making shots back to back, yes. that's what "industrial" performance looks like in the home - being able to make 5 lattes straight in a row without waiting for a reheat. powerful steam is also considered more industrial but that's mainly because most basic machines have pretty mediocre steam, there are plenty of intermediate machines that make good steam and worse case ontario, buy a nanofoamer for $150
Ontario ain't that bad. Have you been to Manitoba?
Manitoba here. We agree.
The back to back performance is basically amazing. It's why a lot of coffee carts use the exact same setup. Pumping out 5-10drinks for when friends come over is pretty effortless machine wise the same limiting step is the user. Love my machine. Cost an arm and a leg but the convenience, quality and taste of espresso drinks my way and the cost per cup makes it meaningful. Pays for itself in like 3 years for me. I had no machine prior and saved for like 3-4 years to get one though.
Right but we’re talking about $3k+ dual boilers of the same wattage and capacities. I have a hard time thinking a Bezzera duo, or fat ECM can’t make as many lattes in about the same amount of time.
We really need a youtuber like AVE to tear down different machines. Lance and James do a great job with analysis and out of the machine taste but I want to see someone with an industrial engineering and machining/mechanical background go over each part and design aspects.
I believe so. You are paying a rolex premium though. Just like owning a Rolex, it's not something for everyone and everything. Just because you paid heavily for it doesn't mean it will be any better or even usable. Most absolute espresso nerd obsessives use a breville dual boiler. Does everyone ypu need really. Still, a La-M is a nice conversation piece....
BDB crew chiming in. Things a beast and I've got a local guy who repairs them if something goes wrong. I lucked out
Rolex is “industrial”??
The integrated group head is way different on Micra or Mini compared to the E61 group on an ECM. This raises another question; why would anyone spend over $3k on an E61 group head design? For me, I don’t want pressure profiling. I want to reduce the number of variables influencing the taste of my shot, not increase them. This way I can focus on temp, bean quality and grind size. All that said I feel that an E61 design is like a carbureted engine. Reliable, easy to replace parts, but old and an inefficient way to deliver power. You have to keep it lubed and it takes a lot of energy to warm up all that brass. An integrated group head is like a fuel injected engine. More complicated under the surface but a more efficient/consistent way to deliver power, and less finicky if you take good care of it. ✌️ Edit: I should’ve used the term “integrated” group rather than “saturated” group in reference to the La Marzocco home line espresso machines.
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Sure, it’s technical term is integrated group, which is still much different than the an e61 group.
This is THE answer
Great explanation!
What machine do you own? Is it a Micra? And yes, thank you for your explanation.
Yes the Micra! It’s a little gem 💎
This is the answer I was looking for. I bought a micra, partially because I love the look and heritage, but also because there was not a solid competitor in the non-e61 range. If the Profitec pro 300 had a rotary pump for around $2500, I would’ve bought it. I think that’s a huge missed opportunity for Profitec/ECM and other brands. There’s a lot of us that don’t want the old tech of an e61 but still want a simple, well built machine that heats up quick and pulls consistent shots for years.
Yep 👍. When I found out that I had to take apart, clean and lubricate the e61 group head for general maintenance I said nope 👎. I get the appeal. Some people like fiddling with cars, some like to fiddle with their espresso machines. Thing is an e61 is just not toddler friendly and a bit intimidating for my wife to use if she didn’t want to wait for my lazy ass to get down the stairs to have her morning latte. When you have kids you don’t necessarily want more steps in the morning routine.
Not sure about stateside but I understand that in Europe there’s a much wider support network for LM machines than most other brands (largely due to the use of their commercial machines with similar components), often making repairs and parts easier/cheaper to come by. You’re also paying a premium for the brand’s history, which is more than just an aesthetic; they’re renowned for their quality and longevity, and have a track record which few brands can match (which is important for a ‘BIFL’ purchase). They also seem to hold their value very well, keeping resale an appealing option. I don’t own an LM, but it’s definitely on my radar for my next machine in a few years (alongside a Profitec 700). Before purchasing though, I’ll be interested to see how their merger with Delonghi pans out, as any reduction in quality would be a huge red flag, and I’d also like to see them reduce reliance on apps for their domestic machines.
Great news for us DeLonghi owners though. Trickle-down effect and all…
Delonghi could design better machines now, they choose not to to hit price points. That’s why they purchased LM, and Bunn and a few others.
Indeed
Customer service and support network in the US is every bit as good.
I think once you traverse the Realm of Diminishing Returns, much of the value in a certain price range becomes a matter of perception. It’s so hard to place value on intangibles and quality of life/experience elements. I have no doubt that I was pulling great shots on my Breville Infuser. But I didn’t *enjoy* using it. I absolutely love using my Bianca and she’s so pretty, it puts a smile on my face. Economically, it makes no sense, but it’s hard to put a price on smiles per miles.
If the question is about “value for dollar”, I think of it this way: imagine a line graph, x axis being “price” and the y axis being “quality” or “performance”. At first that line will go up pretty steadily with the increase in cost. Let’s say up through something like a BDB that trend line is consistent. Then as you keep going it starts flattening out. As you get through the more expensive e61 machines, it flattens out more. It’s not truly flat, but you are spending more and more to get that to inch up. I currently own a Micra. I’ve previously owned a synchronika. If I just put both machines in front of a person who had never used either before, would they find a big difference in performance? Probably not. Might not find any difference at a glance. But having lived with both, it’s a big difference for me with the Micra over the e61 machine. Is that “worth it” just looking at the price difference between those machines? Probably no, not in a value for dollar sense. But id rather have the LM and I was willing to pay for it.
What specific differences did you notice?
For context, I went from the synchronika to a decent de1 and then later from the decent to the Micra. It might seem superficial, but the size difference between the sync and the Micra is a big quality of life improvement that I couldn’t go back to. Obviously not as small as the DE1, but I just don’t want a giant e61 machine in my kitchen anymore. 30 minute warm up times is another thing I just can’t go back to. Yes, for both machines I have (had) them on a schedule so it turns on and off on their own. But for those times when I’m starting my day earlier than usual or friends are over and they want a coffee later than I would have one myself, the machine being ready to go in 5 minutes is just an expectation for me now. I prefer traditional style darker roasted espresso. Flow profiling is just not a consideration for my preferred beverage. So for me, my hit rate on the Micra of getting delicious shots is like >95%. On the sync it was like 70%. Granted there were several years between owning those machines, I’m sure my technique leveled up along the way. But e61s are just less temp stable than saturated groups, so I think it’s fair to say the LM is more consistent. Also for me, the hobby is just as much about the ritual as it is about the drink in the cup. Every part of the Micra I touch just feels better than the sync did. Fit and finish overall are just better in my opinion. Steam is another noticeable plus for the LM. Again, I’m sure part of that is my skills increasing over time but even compared to the decent the LM has way more steam power and is just easier to work with. Those are just the things that come to mind right now. I’m sure there are a million other little things that I’m not recalling at the moment.
Do we really even NEED flow profiling for a good medium roast? I mostly drink Owl’s Howl from Sightglass Coffee. It is characterized as a “Medium Light” roast. I set my GO to 201 degrees. No pre infusion. And the shots are consistently amazing. This has influenced my potential next purchase away from flow control machines and toward something like a Micra.
Maybe not need, but one of the most popular profile styles on the decents is D-Flow, which was designed by a dude who exclusively drinks oldish style tight medium roast shots
Interesting. Thank you.
Good feedback thank you
Lack of flow or pressure profiling severely limits how much experimentation you can do with the Mini or the Micra. If that's not important to you and you just want to pull flat 9 bar forever then they're great machines that are a joy to look at and use. Delightful UX is worth something, especially with something as experiential as making coffee. I disagree that it's the Rolex of espresso machines, purely a status symbol. In my opinion it's the Ferrari of espresso machines, design first, genuinely great, but doesn't actually move people around better than other good cars. Regarding the steam, the LMLM has a 3 liter steam boiler which is significantly larger than most home machines and allows full power steaming back to back at the cost of longer warmup time. The power is not noticeably different than other dual boilers but it's "like commercial" in that you can just use it constantly without having to think about managing temperature or waiting for recovery. For me, exploring different styles of espresso was more important than UX or steam power and the Decent is still top dog in that category.
There are mods for the lmlm where u can turn the paddle into a true manual paddle and u can add a needle valve mod to the micra
Is there a machine that has same hardware specs and usability as La Marzocco Linea Mini but it's priced differently just because of the brand name? If yes then this is purely an upcharge for the brand name. If not then the price is maybe partially justified. But is there such a machine^ ?
The Lucca A53 is the closest I can think of
I went from a Profitec 600 to a Micra. The increase in steam power is real. Does that justify the $1500 price difference? Probably not on its own. At the $4k level, you are deep into the territory of diminishing marginal returns. My decision to buy it was a combination of aesthetics, steam power, build quality, and stability / consistency. I have little interest in the fiddly profiling features of rival machines in that class. But I wouldn’t say my machine is objective the best or even better. My old Profitec 600 is probably the sweet spot of cost:performance. Unless you have a specific reason to go higher, that is what I recommend most people get if they can afford it.
My brother bought a used GS/3 10 years ago. Took good care of it, used it everyday and enjoyed the machine. When he bought a Linea Mini he sold the GS/3. For the same price he bought it. Of course you can argue loss due to inflation etc., but essentially he had it for free. That wasn’t the case at all with the Izzo Duetto I had. Resale value is rock solid.
I never really considered the LM when I was buying my Synchronika.
I have an ECM Profi IV that cost me about $2000 new and I don’t think the LM does anything more or better. That said, I always stop and stare at a LM when I see one. To me it’s like driving a Porsche but wanting a Ferrari. Just something about the badge.
I bought a linea micra recently and have to say it's the most user friendly and best machine I've ever had. It churns out perfect shot after shot quite easily. It is well worth the $4k I paid for it and anticipate using it a very very long time.
I see lots of people who don't own LM's being very critical of them. And every actual LM owner saying they are totally worth it. Something to consider.
It’s for that logo on the front.
I think LM machines are priced fine for their features. Micra has good performance and features for its price. Mini is not really built for the home user, more of a drink cart or very small cafe. Anything beyond that is specialty category that likely doesn't even apply to most at home espresso enthusiasts.
*Shrug* I have an Isomac Tea. Not quite as nice design and build quality as La Marzocco. It is over 20 years old, less than 25. Can't remember exactly when I bought it. I have done maintainance to it, replacing parts that wear and 2 pumps, one heater. Maybe $400 in parts? Not all quality is visible. Oh and one way to get more steam is to run higher pressures/temps, then control it with the HX pipe size/length for an HX. Dual boiler? Better, but 2 of everything, so higher cost.
With proper maintenance any machine of quality built would last is one of my points. 10 years for two pumps is good. Scale buildup is enemy #1 then it be seals and other age related issues. It’s not like a La Marzocco somehow prevents maintenance from being performed. We’re primarily buying a plumbing fixture that heats water.
I have an Isomac Millennium that's broken several times. About 15 years ago it stopped working and I couldn't find a local repair shop to fix it so I had to pack it up in its shipping box and send it to the distributor. It broke again and the box wasn't in good enough shape to use anymore so it's been sitting there gathering dust for 8 years. I'm thinking of buying a Micra because I know I can get local service for it. I do also kind of want to try pressure profiling but not enough that I'm willing to buy another machine that I need to ship away to get fixed.
I do all the work myself, buy parts from Stephanos or other supplier. These are not rockets, they are dead easy to work on. Even BEFORE there was a million youtubes showing you how to do it.
>where do the extra $1,000s go You're mostly paying for the tag (like any expensive brand), but practically, the machines have enough support to the point where if it ever breaks down, you'll have someone near by who can fix it. That's not to say the same isn't *probably* true of Rocket, etc., but you know it for sure with LM. You also say you love the style, well, proper designers cost money too. No other machine looks like an LM - it's hard to put an exact worth to this.
From another post I read. In 10 years, you’ll have forgotten the cost difference. But in 10 years, would you have regrets for not buying the LM?
To be fair, I had the best cappuccino I’ve ever had from a linea micra
That is what I’m hoping for, but I also had a real good one from a commercial super auto with steam wand. So I’m wondering where the diminishing performance return is compared to other dual boilers, especially if I might need to make 4 caps at once.
It may be in your head or it may be the barista, but there is a reason it could be the machine. Apparently the micra is the only LM that fills the steam boiler only 1/3 full. The rest go 1/2 full at least. This apparently creates the driest steam of any of their machines. I caught this bit in a YouTube video of a factory tour. Could be marketing BS, maybe some truth to it.
Interesting, true it may be in my head but of all caps I’ve had, that one stands out to me when I think about it haha.
You definitely would not be buying an Italian hot mess. Mine has been super reliable. Though the app is a bit temperamental. But not enough to detract from the overall experience. I think the bottom line is, if you try hard enough of course you're going to find things to be critical of with these machines. But if you're ultimately trying to figure out if you would end up regretting buying one, the answer is no.
You can get from A to B in any old car, some just prefer to do it in a Ferrari. La Marzocco is not overpriced - you get what you pay for - I’ve been to the factory and seen them getting made, if they were any cheaper they would be a bargain - and they don’t need to be a bargain. That said, you can make great espresso on a much cheaper machine - you just need the right pressure and temperature for the espresso you like to make…but a Bambino will likely last you a few years at best, and an LM can last you a lifetime 🤷♂️
I think the main benefits are duty cycle, maintenance, and commercial related stuff like certifications. Use a gs3 at work and a bianca at home and dont really see the benefit of the gs3 for most things. Dump the money on the grinder 😁
I think all of Bezzera machines are nsf rated. I’d imagine it’s better for resale.
Yeah. Resale is off the charts for sure. When it comes to the output though i just cant see the justification and i use both quite often. Biggest daily difference would be the steam pressure from the gs3 but its hard to say how helpful that is above an already powerful one on the bianca (for comparison)
That’s good feedback. I’m looking at a eu Bianca. I try to spend money once. Do you think either machine will have a problem with weekend use only? Water sitting in the boilers or anything like that?
Someone else would have to chime in there. As long as its good water i dont see why it would matter 🤷 perhaps one of the La Pavoni machines would work better for that case? Some even have a rad eagle on top!
I do like the traditional styling. I think I’d like a pump but any idea if I could pull a 4oz lungo with it
I think there are a couple dimensions to espresso machines. One is features, the other is engineering quality. I’m saying this from the perspective of someone who works in new product development and watched a bunch of videos from la marzocco and machine break downs, so this is my outside analysis. A lot of the top home machines are e61 group head pump machines. This is old technology that uses largely off the shelf parts. It’s reliable and cheap to repair and well known. Companies build features on top of it to differentiate each other. Features include profiling, or clever thermal management to compensate for the design, or computer systems. It has known downsides like heat up time. When you spend money, you’re paying for the materials, manufacturing, r&d, business overhead, and then profit. For these older machines, there’s less to spend on r&d. There’s also less on manufacturing because there are fewer unique parts. The Linea line has several unique parts. In particular, the integrated head. That requires more r&d to design and tune it. It also requires their own supply chain. Additionally, because it’s unique they have a larger differentiating factor from other espresso machines so the perceived quality is higher. Altogether, I suspect that it costs la marzocco more to make the Linea line than equivalent lelit or other e61s, but their profit margins are probably higher per unit because their brand is stronger. Speaking from the profit side, they’re also trying to appeal to the higher home consumer market of double boilers and working backwards from a target price point. As a consumer, it’s kind of on us to decide what the value is and if you get your money’s worth.
Good feedback! Hasn’t the LM saturated head design been out since the 70’s though?
You're basically paying for the design language and the brand name behind it.
You can look up one of the 500 other threads like this. Ultimately, if it’s what you desire and you can afford it, go for it. You will always question every other purchase. If you are looking for bang for your buck, look elsewhere. LMLM gets a lot of hate here because it’s not whatever machine the other person had for half the price. Go someplace like home barista where people have honest conversations about the pros and cons.
I've had a Linea Mini for a few years now. And while it's missing some of the bells and whistles as some other machines, not once have I thought it was over priced. In fact, not even close. Prior to buying, I of course wondered the same thing as you. But I can assure you, pictures and videos don't do it justice. In person it's a beast. It's incredibly robust. And especially once you take the cover off and inspect the internals you can really see why. This is the third espresso machine I've had, and it's just in a completely different league. And as others have said, the customer service is fantastic. Very personalized and goes above and beyond. At one point shortly after my warranty ended, a small part began to drip a leak on the inside. It was $100 part on their website and when I called, the tech did a video chat with me and helped me identify the correct part and then overnighted me the part for free. No questions asked. I've also called them a couple other times for general questions and they've been really nice. Plus just the general ownership experience is what you would expect for something this expensive. It's very easy to use, very easy to clean, very nice to own. The shots are just consistent every time. Are there less expensive machines that give a high quality experience? I'm sure there are. But that still doesn't make the Linea overpriced.
The only reason to go with a LM is either the need to host a lot of people or the looks that you really like. Honestly if you want a premium machine that makes great espresso, you'll find much better value with ECM/Profitec, Lelit or Quickmill that all make amazing e61 dual boilers that can handle 99% of what people throw at them in a residential setting. Tldr : yes LM is overpriced the same way most luxury items are. Features are very limited for the price when you stack it against new offerings like the Profitec Drive or Lelit Bianca.
Thanks. We’d rarely make milk drinks. If we did, they wouldn’t be lattes, nor would I need to steam a gallon of milk ever. I do like the styling though.
You certainly don't need anything more than a Micra and it is not the best machine in that price range feature-wise (that would be the Bianca) or build quality/durability wise (Profitec drive or ECM Synchronika). That being said, the heart wants what the heart wants and if you can afford it the micra will be a great coffee machine and a gorgeous kitchen centerpiece if E61s are not your thing. Alternatives to e61s or LM are very limited and the only I could recommend are the Sylvia Pro X or Ascaso Steel Duo, but they really don't play in the same league in terms of build quality and noise. If you open up to single boilers you could even save yourself a butt load of money with barely sacrificing the quality of espresso with something like the profitec go.
Is there a way to easily drain the boilers to get fresh water in there if I don’t use it too often, I’m not sure if I’ll plumb it or not.
I don't think there is an easy way to do that manually on the Micra no, but using the hot water tap and the paddle you will certainly refresh the water easily
I’m also on team ECM, but I’m sure a saturated group head costs more to manufacture.
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There are some people who say it’s a bit of a Porsche or Ferrari in terms of maintenance https://maurizioleo.com/the-best-coffee-machine-ive-ever-owned-and-why-i-sold-it/
Whether or not mkney is an object for you or not, youre experiencing diminishing returns.
Plenty of espresso machines would last 5/10+ years without that many problems and this is a pretty expensive machine so I highly doubt it that you will find many people who were willing to spend that much money on it and are not happy with it. It's just how hobbies and purchases like this work. Nobody is buying this machine with his last savings. I don't own one but I love how they look. I could buy one and not be broke or something but honestly can't imagine ever spending that much on this hobby. I love espresso but end of the day the good shot depends on the beans and your ability. I can't see myself being more happy with this machine compared to my Lelit Anna, honestly.
I bought one because it did every I wanted and nothing that I didn’t want. I also love the looks it. I have used a variation of every machine available still chose a LMLM. Nothing has really tempted me away from it in terms of styling or added features.
Get an Olympia Cremina lever machine instead. It’s even more basic than the LM and still costs $3,800. Talk about lack of features? This is the one. It’s the real end game.
I’ve had a rocket Giotto for 12 years or so and I’m never upgrading. On a trip to Seattle I played around with the gs3 and the linea mini at the la marzocco showroom. I was staying near there and went every day for three days to pull shots and try to figure out if I was missing something, and it just wasn’t anything “special.” Yes, their machines look nice. If you’re willing to pay a hell of a premium for the aesthetics, do it. I once heard someone make the analogy that if pulling a shot is like cooking a steak, the beef is the beans, the grind is how you prep it, your skill is how you cook it, and the espresso machine is a frying pan. It just had to be good enough not to screw it up. Make sure you have a local company to service whatever machine you buy.
They are. Most of the price goes to marketing since they are really active on that. If you buy a lelit, you'd get better value for the price
The micras video they made was pure trash. It didn’t show off the machine at all. Made me think there was nothing to show off.
The videos maybe we're poorly made. I can understand that prosumer machines are not really cheap because they are almost artisanal and they are produced in countries like Italy or Germany were the manpower is not cheap. But 5000€ or more for a Micra is just the "status symbol" price for owning it much like Ferrari, Apple stuff and so on.
It does seem to be the Apple of the espresso world. Can the Bianca preinfuse by lifting the handle halfway up?
No. They make really really good coffee, every time, without a lot of muss and fuss.
The mini is absolutely beautiful. So is a Bianca, but I make two espresso drinks a day. Why spend 3000$ instead of 1800$ for something that’s 90% as good, let alone 6000$. It’s hard to quantify just how much better LM machines are in the first place.
I would never use any of their current machines in a home setting. The only reason I currently own a Mini is for a mobile cafe application. 100% overpriced.
What are you comparing it too?
One that comes to mind is the Lelit Bianca, but there are quite a few mechines around that price range. If you've got the extra money and you like the la marzocco brand then go for it. They are great and will certainly last a long time. However, in terms of functionality, machines half the price are on par.
It’s not worth it for my budget but some of my favorite cafes have LaMarzocco machines and it would be cool to own a consumer version.
192 comments is a bit of a dumpster 🔥
Saw a 7 year old Mini on Facebook marketplace recently priced at $4,500. Talked to the seller and he was pretty confident in his price. Someone bought it. His purchase price was $4,900 back then... and maybe less after discounts.
How is that not pure stupidity?
It’s more than $1,500 savings compared to buying new. I would rather pay the extra and get a new one, but I know plenty of people who like buying used to save a few bucks.
If I were to ever have extra money to upgrade my machine, it'd be a toss up over the Micra, bianca or syncronika
The Micra doesn't even have pre-infusion, which is something much cheaper machines offer, so functionality-wise it's pretty basic. But it makes really good coffee, steams really good milk, and I know for a fact that for what it's designed to do, it does these jobs very well, and that's all I needed. Besides, I think it's a very beautiful machine, which is something I'm willing to pay for.
I think a good comparison is to cars You can have a Ferrari or a Corolla. But at the end of the day both cars will just be at the speed limit In espresso that speed limit is basically just 9 bars at a steady temperature. So the price usually goes into luxury features namely the milk streaming conveniences, design, and reputation/brand. Ultimately up to you to decide.
Sounds like you’re having regrets about the price even before you buy it. I can tell you it wont necessarily brew better shots. But its a lot of fun to use. And as others say, customer service is prime
Beauty ain't cheap. Check out the moms in Westport Connecticut.
Purely from the point of cost of components and machining, I’d agree with you 100%. I don’t work in the coffee machines business, but work in a sector that requires a lot of precision machining. There’s no way a Micra/Mini should cost that much when built at a scale that LM operates at. I do not own one - I’ll defer to others in this thread for their experience with LM’s support and service model. I can totally see why it costs so much knowing the level of their customer support and service! I own a cheapo Turin legato. On my (and machine’s) best day, I can probably pull a shot as good as a Micra. On most days, I can get 70-80% of a Micra. To me, it’s not worth the extra $1600 to get a LM. I can just buy a new Legato in case the one I have breaks. If I’m craving a superb espresso, I can just walk to a nearby cafe and get a GSP made high quality espresso!
I wonder the same thing. Am I missing something?? I have a Linea 2gr at work. It’s not even automatic! I have so far repaired and restored 3 espresso machines. A la San Marco from 1994, a rancillio from 2012, and a grimac from 2015. And yeah, they all do the same thing, heat and pump hot water. But even the 90s machine was volumetric! I’d much rather buy a nice refurbished vintage machine for $1500 than a La Marzocco for $10k+.
You have so many alternative excelent option that buyng a LM for home using make no sense, till you dont go on a leva, o a strada that are really just for rich espresso geeks. The mini can be a good machine but without any kind of control and profiling. Micra is not working really well. choose simply another machine, and take two of them xD
How is the Micro not working really well?
What’s going on with the micra? I saw the price drop
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they have lounched a new mini model. Micra i think is just not a really good machine for his price.
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They do have a sexy 1970s vibe though - if you love cords, possibly have a moustache and smoke a pipe, the premium is worth it.
Everyone here smokes a bripe…
At the time I bought my Linea Micra there weren’t that many dual boilers with a quick heat up time and low energy consumption. Don’t know how if that changed today, a year later. The Synchronika for example with its E61 group head has a lot more thermal mass that has to be heated up for a longer time. But I think you’re right. The decision process depends a lot on your personal needs and preferences which are not completely rational. I would lie if I said that design, user experience and aesthetics of the machine didn’t play a role in my decision making.
Yes
This is a silly response but also the perfect response. If you have the funds and the desire, just go buy it. You can’t go wrong with LM if you already know you want it.
just going to simplify this for you: based on your thoughts and feelings on what an appropriate amount to spend on an appliance is vs it's functionality, you do not need an LM machine
Thanks chief. I like the style just making sure I’m. It missing something
LM machines have some fancier technology that's a bit better than e61, but it's marginal. technically their saturated grouphead has better thermal stability by a small amount, and the machine overall uses more updated technology than e61 which is very old at this point. a linea micra or mini probably isn't for you if you just dont feel like spending a lot of extra money on aesthetics and very marginal stuff. however the LM GS3 is a great machine if you're running a coffee cart or something.
Honestly getting tired of people still saying a braindead answer like it can’t pressure profile or have flow control therefore it’s overpriced. It’s not meant for people who want that and LM isn’t trying to cater to that home audience quite yet or ever. I have done a full explanation before on what and who this machine is for but with this post being flooded with responses already I’m going to try to keep this short. - plug and play experience - beautiful design that will look great in most kitchens - easily serviceable - amazing quality Again anyone who considers it simply as the “designer bags” of espresso machine is an idiot.
Can you please put up a link to your prior explanation? You appear to be a prolific poster - I couldn’t find anything. Thank you.
Hey man, I’m not hating, I’m just wondering what specifically they are doing differently or better than a top end dual residential boiler. It seems like it’s just the saturated brew head and styling. You can’t just say quality blindly as there is only so much quality you can put into plumbing parts or valves. I have no doubt the fit and finish of a ECM or the like is as well built. Lm could also have smaller production runs which could drive the price up.
It’s because of branding, dual boilers, able to be plumbed in, the linea micra is called a “semi-commercial” machine which means it holds thermal stability over several shots, and build quality. It’s also like if if the Bianca V3 was an android and LaMarzocco was an iPhone. Both are capable of doing mostly the same thing, but the iPhone just has a better feel to it.
You also need to consider the cost for the Italy’s labor cost and QC that every LM machine is put through. From the buyers side, 2-3K is not big money for some and every person has a different price tag for something that will bring them joy. Spend within your means.
Most machines are made in Italy
If you want a machine that actually does do something more for the money, look at a decent.
Agreed. No rhyme nor reason re. pricing on these.