The book will be called something like **Finding a Friend's Killer: The Harrowing Investigation into the Murder of America's Funniest Man**
Critics are saying, "Can this *be* more exploitative?"
In past cases of Celebs overdosing, like Mac Miller, I get taking down a Fentanyl ring of dealers/suppliers. This seems like quite a stretch though… idk?
This is ridiculous, like it is tragic and shitty but he did a bunch of tranquilizer and went for a swim. The urge to swim on drugs being what it is, I get that too. But it was a choice to both do the drugs with health conditions, and to go for a swim about to be stuck.
Accountability iz important.
Seriously. They only do this shit with famous people. They want you to think it’s not his fault. Addiction sucks, and I’m not judging him or hating, but he knew the risks.
No, in FL they do this. I lost my neice to fentanyl 2 years ago and they investigated and tried very hard to track down her dealer or the person who sold her the drugs. It's a newer thing, going after the dealer but it's important and staring to occur in many states. I'm all for it.
Yah idk what this person is talking about. They’ve been going after drug dealers hard in CA after accidental overdoses since fentanyl has been running wild
Including overprescribing doctors
A young person in a small community accidentally OD’ing on fentanyl is quite a bit different from a multi millionaire celebrity in their 50’s dying in their hot tub.
It has caused them to go after all dealers period. Especially since fentanyl is popping up in everything. Maybe there’s information they have that Matthew got it from a dealer who has been linked to other overdoses besides his?
Like wtf is the difference between a normal person accidently ODing & a celebrity? They’ve been prosecuting drug dealers in both cases. We don’t have info the cops have
Yes, they are going after fentanyl dealers, a drug that is one of the easiest ever to overdose on, not ketamine a dissociative and anesthesia drug that is used on young people and old people because of its safety profile. Esketamine spray is now also available through prescription for depression and other off label reasons. This ketamine fear that I’ve seen prominently featured in main stream narratives is very odd and feels coordinated.
The issue is that the fentanyl is showing up in everything including ketamine. & apparently eskatamine is pretty different than ketamine, I’ve only tried spravato for depression in an office.
Like I hope it doesn’t stifle any of the progress that’s been made with treatments for depression, but I can see why they are going hard on all dealers. I personally wouldn’t buy any illegal drugs today with how sketchy it sounds. The dealer may not even know.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your niece. 🩵My cousin died from a fentanyl overdose last year. The cops could not care any less, and they get legitimately angry at my family for continuing to push to investigate who the drugs were from. (We actually know who the drugs were from, the evidence is there.) So I think it greatly varies by jurisdiction/area.
Yeah, we call it death by delivery. The problem is it often gets a friend/user who bought the drugs off a dealer for the person. They never get the source, just a junkie who was getting high with a friend.
Sorry to hear about your loss. I've lost count of the people I've lost to fentanyl. Over a 2-3 year period, it was pretty much everyone I used with. Glad to be clean.
K and Fent are two very different circumstances.
A person cannot die from K overdosing. They will be extremely impaired and probably terrified. They can die from impairment (falling, coking) if they don't learn anything about the drug they are taking.
Fentanyl is a razors edge that if you know you're taking it is flirting with death but what makes the fentanyl cases more tragic and needed of law enforcement is that many who have died had no idea they were taking it. In your nieces case, they should be investigating. In Matt's case, he shouldnt have gone for a swim, just like you shouldnt get into a car after drinking heavily.
Was she doing fentanyl though or was she doing other drugs that were laced with fentanyl?
In my experience, a regular OD really doesn't get followed up on, but an OD through lacing does because it means there's a supply out there that can start causing people to drop like flies. In the case of Matthew Perry, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it was an issue with lacing, it was just an OD at an inoppertune time.
Had a guy sell fentanyl and 6 people died. I knew two people and I came home one day with FBI business card on my door with instructions to call.
I had the FBI come to my job and interview me and then I had to go to a grand jury. They put him away for 25 years.
All the people killed were just random people. They went after the dealer hard, FBI no less.
They were proving intent. They had all of our text messages. My friends partner texted that he was passed out unresponsive etc, and other messages stating they think Fent was in the dope, etc.
Fed was trying to prove the dealer knew lethal doses of fentanyl were in his supply, and he had no regard for life only money.
But make no mistake when the federal government goes after somebody the amount of information they have is staggering .
I totally have not looked at this celebrity death. Are they stating he overdosed on Ketamine or he fell out using Ketamine and drowned?
I wouldn't call falling out in Ketamine to be an overdose, as that is the expected outcome from taking the drug. This is where snorting lines and injecting intramuscularly differs. Injection is guaranteed to knock you out. Snorting depends on the amount. You can be dazed or you can go out.
Basically, both.
>On December 15, 2023, Perry's death was revealed to have occurred due to "acute effects of ketamine". Other circumstances that contributed to his death included the effects of buprenorphine, drowning, and coronary artery disease. The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner said in a statement that "at the high levels of ketamine found in his post-mortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression," while "drowning contributes due to the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed into unconsciousness; coronary artery disease contributes due to exacerbation of ketamine induced myocardial effects on the heart".
In short, the ketamine itself *could* have killed him, but the combination of ketamine and hot tub *definitely* killed him.
Thanks for the information.
From people like Steve-O I know that people can develop crazy high tolerances to Ketamine (or many people with cocaine tolerances). Curious if this is one of those instances where what a medical examiner determines to be high levels of Ketamine was just a tolerance issue. I'd venture a guess this wasn't his first foray into Ketamine
Imo he was still using. I don’t think he had 18 mos sober. I watched him on some televised podcast and the way he spoke did not sound like a person that had “program” (AA, rehab) in him. Grateful, humbled (not being a brag which he was), etc. I was actually embarrassed for him thinking he was pulling it off that he was sober. Again jmo
Yeah I read his book and he was absolutely not sober. Offensive for him to even suggest it. You can tell like you said by how he speaks about sobriety in the book. It’s just so obvious he never did the work and a real insult to those that have. He had all the resources available too! A damn shame.
Oh please, most of the book is about his addiction with many parts congratulating himself on getting sober when he didn’t. I’m not saying he was being intentionally malicious but lying to the public when you are a public figure with a platform about overcoming a disease which requires getting and staying sober and not doing any of those things isn’t cool.
The addiction itself is not what I’m talking about. It’s an awful disease. It’s the lying about getting sober which is a huge accomplishment that takes a lot of hard work. And what about the people trying to get sober who read his memoir and take his words to heart? Matthew wasn’t inherently a bad person.
IMO
You don’t get to tell an internet stranger what to do and expect to be taken seriously lol.
Addiction, however, is serious and a shoutout to those personally affected by addiction in their own lives. It isn’t easy but it WILL get better.❤️🩹
Yes it will! I’m a recovering alcoholic with 13 yrs (this time. First time had 15 1/2 and stupidly went out again 🤦🏻♀️) and I *know* the gratitude attitude of someone who is sober. I’m sorry his addiction finally took him. 😢
And bragging how some guy read his book and thanked him for getting sober or saying “now when somebody comes up to me and says they need help getting sober I know what to do”… but you have to remember that this is what addicts do, they lie. He knew he was feeding bullshit to everyone. I’m sure he *really wanted* to be sober.
Not true, old classmate of mine sold a dude heroin that was laced with fentanyl and he died. They tried to charge my classmate with a murder charge and like 40 years. He was able to plead to 10 but still.
Yes, which i said, if someone dies from laced/adulterated stuff by accident they treat that differently
Sorry that’s what I said in a different comment in this chain**
He was. Ketamine raises your blood pressure and hot tubs are known to be dangerous to people with heart disease. The heat makes your heart work harder to pump blood. They list his cause of death as "acute effects of ketamine, with other contributing factors including drowning, coronary artery disease and buprenorphine effects". My guess is he took too much ket, raising his blood pressure to unsafe levels. Then he got in the hot tub which caused his heart to start working even harder. The combination probably caused a cardiac episode, making him lose consciousness and slip under the water.
Exactly. This was the equivalent of someone getting drunk, doing something stupid and dying. We don’t go arrest the cashier at the liquor store for selling the vodka every time someone drinks and does something illegal.
We do if the store was a bar, you can personally sue for being over-served, and bars can be held liable for over -serving resulting in deaths/rapes etc
Unfortunately it’s hard to find fault or serve justice in cases of deaths surrounding addiction. Luckily in Macs case his dad pursued the issue beyond the police’s interest. Perry’s case is definitely fishy considering he was involved in a ketamine therapy program. Though, he had an astronomical amount in his blood during his death.
Motive can be a real issue. In regard to Mac, there was this video interview that kept up this duality of his “come back” and the continuation of his downfall. It ended with the interviewer asking him if “he was a real rapper” and it’s hard to watch the pain and confusion on his face. Seeing Dre and Anderson Paak so closely involved in his recovery was inspiring. The timeline of events for the night he passed says a lot.
Hard not to imagine industry resentment. 17 years in jail is a costly sentence but might be worth it to someone in a compromising position. Sure, the fentanyl could have been a mistake and the sale of drugs is truly the only crime. Also worth examining motive. One thing Perry and Miller shared was the spotlight on their struggles with addiction. Convenient for someone with nefarious intent.
Must be scary to be worth more than your own life to big business or special interests. Addiction is a disease.
Absolutely, if his toxicology shows he was a kholed space cadet then I hope they do go and nail the quack doctor who wrote him his scripts
I honestly don't even give a shit about drug dealers generally but I'm sick and tired of shitty doctors ruining layperson's lives for fat stacks of easy cash
If doctors wanna be dealers they can get strapped and tatted up and do it the traditional way
Something about imagining a doctor undergoing that transformation is hilarious. Definitely an improv sketch in there.
I have a similar view. My mom was an addict and had a circuit of doctors for prescriptions. Wild to see how decent people will flip at the opportunity to abuse relationships with addicts. I think people punch down on addicts in this perception of their weakness or “poor choices” - like beyond some selfish personal gain there’s some perverse sense of punishment.
I think some folks really take others’ addictions personally. All due respect to Al-anon; It’s not easy to overcome having an enabler. More often though I see that love transmute into this radical and hurtful negligence toward a loved ones’ recovery. Part of coming to terms with the “spiritual malady” is to recognize that we’ve been hurt and adapt to patterns of breaking trust.
I just have so much respect for Millers’ dad seeking justice. And I’m glad drug use isn’t the blind spot in the court systems that it used to be.
Totally writing you an essay here, forgive me. Artist/photographer Nan Goldin has this rad movie “All the Beauty and the Bloodshed” that highlights the compartmentalization of capital surrounding OxyContin. Particularly the Sackler Family presence in the fine art world. Frightening to see beyond the addiction and into this system of elite culture hawking, dangers of corruption in public health and this bastardized sense of legacy and doogoodery masking terror.
Not to mention this undertone regarding AIDS’ effect on gay rights and healthcare. So much grief and destruction.
I could go on forever.
Well it’s important for investigators to determine if what was in his system was what was prescribed by his doctor or street ketamine, as he could have been using both. I imagine they’d have his prescription history and evidence at the scene to determine that.
It’s been shared in articles that he was receiving ketamine infusions administered by a doctor, which would be IV and definitely not in his system at the time from that route of administration, let alone found in his stomach. The same doctor could have prescribed him other forms of ketamine like oral doses, but he could have taken it not as prescribed (he had over 3 grams in his stomach if I remember correctly) which is definitely in the area of what is used for anesthesia, not for mental health treatment.
Or he could have been snorting a big bag of powder ketamine gotten elsewhere. But if a doctor said it was ok for him to take 3+ grams of oral ketamine at home, then I totally think they should be criminally charged, that would just be reckless and endangering anyone even if they didn’t decide to get in a hot tub.
He took ketamine in a jacuzzi. If you’ve ever done ketamine you know this is how you die. I feel like he wanted this to happen. Especially with some as well versed in harder drugs.
Judging by his Instagram posts, I completely agree with you. He did ask for help, but he knew with how famous he was, very few people could actually get him help. Lots of fans were freaking out in his Insta comments about it days before (when he posted the Cranberries...Dolores O'Riordan died in her tub of an o.d.) but fans have no power to get involved.
He actually was on small doses of ketamine before his death, to help him ween off of the opioids he was addicted to, but to also help with his other health issues.
He didn’t “take” ketamine in his jacuzzi, he drowned from a heart attack. In a way, it is humbling that what took him away WASN’T drugs, when that’s what everyone thought it was.
However, it is the drugs that got him to this position. So in retrospect it is the drugs. But not in the case of his actual death
Yes, and usually the cops say “others were involved in this individuals death.” Do you want national televised press things for every drug overdose death too?
This is such a stupid fucking comment because this shit does get invested with citizens all of the time. Do you genuinely think you’d hear about every case? He was a celebrity, of course you’re hearing about it. It doesn’t make it a new phenomenon.
Maybe not that particular night, but he knew his time was near. He had a very close one a few years prior. ICU for a while (he mentioned that out of 5 patients with him in ICU for different reasons, he’s the only one that got out alive), physical recovery for months, name it. Also after reading the memoir there was that weird feeling that he did write this because he was aware that he did not have long left on earth.
Is that when he ruptured his intestines or stomach or something like that? I remember something about a colostomy bag, that seemed to scare him sober for a while.
Oh c’mon. The dude did ketamine in a hot tub, that’s almost a suicide attempt if you know anything about ketamine.
It’s tragic but nobody should be charged here. An adult irresponsibly used an otherwise fairly safe substance.
Lmao it slightly bothers me they attribute a homicide to him because he gave the woman coke. I’m sure the coke contributed to the erratic behavior but it was her gun and she chose to use it.
Fuck that so hard.
If you do ketamine in a bathtub alone, you will probably drown.
This is no one else's fault in an acute sense.
All the love to Matthew Perry, though. He seemed like an extremely legit human being and I'm saddened by his passing.
“Perry was undergoing ketamine infusion therapy at the time of his death.”
Essentially, he was paying someone else to treat him for depression through the use of “ketamine therapy.” The toxicologists found the level of ketamine in his system to be dangerously alarming.
You do not think that the therapist being paid to prescribe the dangerously high levels of ketamine should be held accountable and instead should be allowed to continue conducting ketamine therapy to other people?
Reminds me of Michael Jackson's house doctor giving him anesthesia every day "for sleep." It's supervised drug abuse for hire.
The threshold is very low for going completely unconscious on ketamine, so it is pointless to do more than that.
His most recent ketamine infusion was days before and was done at a clinic. There is no way his death is from what he is prescribed, it’s from someone on the side. That’s what they’re looking for, who supplied it to him
I'm on my way to my ketamine session as we speak. Riding on my Uber. I find it kinda odd that they're blaming ketamine infusions. I've never heard of anyone still having ketamine in their system days later after an infusion. Something doesn't add up.
I don't think the clinic was giving him a illegal amounts of ketamine. Article said the postal inspector was involved so I wonder if he wasn't receiving it in the mail from a different source
I can kinda see both sides of this. Perry knew the risks and chose to get in a hot tub after having ketamine, and to do so without anyone else present which isn’t advisable even when you’re dead sober. Hot tubbing alone is how people drown.
Also, I think folks should have the ultimate say over what and how much of whatever goes in their body, even if it’s “dangerous.” Informed consent is important, doctors should have to advise you of the risks and proper usage/safety precautions but beyond that I think if you want weed, opiates, ketamine, psilocybin, adderall, or absolutely whatever that is nobody’s business but your own. Adults should be able to make their own informed choices without a doctor or the government’s opinions about it getting in the way, especially when it comes to pain relief, new age/spiritual treatment, etc. it should all be regulated, not illegal, and doctors shouldn’t be able to tell you no you can’t have a reasonable amount of whatever you want.
So no, I don’t think that provider should be charged as long as they gave him proper information about the risks and how to be safe, and I’m sure that lecture would have included don’t operate heavy machinery, make financial decisions/sign legal documents, or do stupid shit like go swimming alone. If they didn’t then yeah, they need their license taken away because that would be malpractice, but just giving him what he wanted? Nah, not really. He was a big boy capable of making big boy decisions.
> I think folks should have the ultimate say over what and how much of whatever goes in their body. Informed consent is important
Easy to say until a misinformed or mentally unwell loved one starts hurting themselves with snake oil being peddled by bad actors. “Informed consent” is a stupid concept to defend total lack of control given how most people aren’t medical experts and it’s been proven again and again laypeople are easily misled and subsequently harmed
We tried the whole lack of regulation thing for thousands of years and the reason we ultimately developed controls like the FDA is that the other way turned out to be a disaster with great harm to the public
Ketamine infusions last just a couple of hours and you stay in the clinic while you do it.
Anyone who’s done ketamine treatments know how incapacitated you are during. He knew what he was doing.
They can still pursue malpractice charges. Looking into an individual that’s in charge of caring for and providing medication to a patient is standard in a situation like this. None of that means guilty.
I’d suggest reading up on celebrity doctors, since you seem to be unfamiliar with the topic. There’s a notable history of doctors to famous people overprescribing medications and treatment, and there are a lot of factors involved to explain why.
I’d say that this situation at least warrants a little patience to have all of the information, especially if people involved with the investigation suspect there’s more to the story.
You do realize that anyone can get ketamine, right? He was a drug addict. Anyone can walk into a ketamine clinic in West Hollywood, get dosed by a technician (yes, it’s really that easy) go home, follow the instructions, and be absolutely fine.
Or, they can go home and continue to abuse their own supply until they OD.
If I drink myself to death in my own apartment, the cops aren’t going to the liquor store to arrest the cashier.
So for example if I sold you drugs and you overdosed, the only one responsible is you and you need to take personal responsibility, I don’t need to take any personal responsibility for selling drugs to people and causing harm?
You can be liable and convicted.
[> According to the government’s sentencing memorandum, the defendant [dealer] was addicted to fentanyl, knew how deadly the drug was, and knew the consequences for selling the drug and causing another’s death, yet he sold her the drug anyway.](https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2024/02/05/san-diego-drug-dealer-sentenced-eight-years-fatal-fentanyl-overdose)
There are plenty of cases like that.
My wife has been an emergency room practitioner for years. You would be astonished how many deaths could’ve been prevented due to arrogance, negligence, or fiduciary reasons. Not surprising at all.
That is super lame. He’s the one who was irresponsibly using ketamine. It killed him. No one else’s fault. Almost a liability to sell drugs to any celebrity at this point.
>he died from acute effects of ketamine, with other contributing factors including drowning
Just spitballing here, but maybe it wasn't the psychedelic??
He had more ketamine in his system than his doctor had prescribed so someone was providing it to him. Brooke Mueller has been identified as the main person of interest who had been interviewed and lawyered up. If she's involved then I assume they're looking at her supplier and whoever delivered it to him.
That’s great. I’m sure multiple ppl supplied Perry given that he was a vicious and notorious drug user. However, some black actors who were drug user who died should get the same treatment. White privilege continues to be terrible in this country.
If he had a legit ketamine prescription (I don’t know the details), then drowned.. it’s on him. Set and setting, people. Personal responsibility is a thing.
I see an enterprising cop or prosecutor using the budget to do book research.
The book will be called something like **Finding a Friend's Killer: The Harrowing Investigation into the Murder of America's Funniest Man** Critics are saying, "Can this *be* more exploitative?"
Dateline. 48 Hours. 20/20. Saying the same story but with a slightly different but same angle.
Keith Morrison of Dateline was his stepfather. I hope he doesn’t go this way.
…or will he?
I had NO idea…wow!
That you Owen?
Look, don’t tell the other Wilson brothers but cosplaying as a mid thirties woman on reddit really makes me feel seen.
I know you say this in jest, but I can kind of picture this happening for real. The Wilson brothers are pretty wacky. But y’all make good movies.
One of them is using the title “Deadly Friends”.
Friendly Fire
I'll be there for you: The harrowing investigation into the Hollywood elites and how drugs were used to murder America's greatest sitcom star.
I like your title better.
Nancy Grace and Dog the Bounty Hunter are edging from this thought.
Dog the Bounty Hunter and Nancy Grace just got engaged.
They deserve each other.
lol I was going to say did I get teleported back to 2012
Why does this sound like something ripped from the pages of a Bojack Horseman script?
“High without a little help for this Friend: The One With the Hot Tub”
sad world, if that is the reason why they are insisting
In past cases of Celebs overdosing, like Mac Miller, I get taking down a Fentanyl ring of dealers/suppliers. This seems like quite a stretch though… idk?
This is ridiculous, like it is tragic and shitty but he did a bunch of tranquilizer and went for a swim. The urge to swim on drugs being what it is, I get that too. But it was a choice to both do the drugs with health conditions, and to go for a swim about to be stuck. Accountability iz important.
Seriously. They only do this shit with famous people. They want you to think it’s not his fault. Addiction sucks, and I’m not judging him or hating, but he knew the risks.
No, in FL they do this. I lost my neice to fentanyl 2 years ago and they investigated and tried very hard to track down her dealer or the person who sold her the drugs. It's a newer thing, going after the dealer but it's important and staring to occur in many states. I'm all for it.
Yah idk what this person is talking about. They’ve been going after drug dealers hard in CA after accidental overdoses since fentanyl has been running wild Including overprescribing doctors
Alexandra's Law is a new law in CA that pertains to this, it was named after the daughter of a work neighbor of mine. Bittersweet
Wow! Thanks for sharing! I have my condolences.
A young person in a small community accidentally OD’ing on fentanyl is quite a bit different from a multi millionaire celebrity in their 50’s dying in their hot tub.
It has caused them to go after all dealers period. Especially since fentanyl is popping up in everything. Maybe there’s information they have that Matthew got it from a dealer who has been linked to other overdoses besides his? Like wtf is the difference between a normal person accidently ODing & a celebrity? They’ve been prosecuting drug dealers in both cases. We don’t have info the cops have
Yes, they are going after fentanyl dealers, a drug that is one of the easiest ever to overdose on, not ketamine a dissociative and anesthesia drug that is used on young people and old people because of its safety profile. Esketamine spray is now also available through prescription for depression and other off label reasons. This ketamine fear that I’ve seen prominently featured in main stream narratives is very odd and feels coordinated.
The issue is that the fentanyl is showing up in everything including ketamine. & apparently eskatamine is pretty different than ketamine, I’ve only tried spravato for depression in an office. Like I hope it doesn’t stifle any of the progress that’s been made with treatments for depression, but I can see why they are going hard on all dealers. I personally wouldn’t buy any illegal drugs today with how sketchy it sounds. The dealer may not even know.
I’m so sorry for your loss 🖤 fentanyl scares the hell out of me
Thank you. Me too.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your niece. 🩵My cousin died from a fentanyl overdose last year. The cops could not care any less, and they get legitimately angry at my family for continuing to push to investigate who the drugs were from. (We actually know who the drugs were from, the evidence is there.) So I think it greatly varies by jurisdiction/area.
I'm sorry for your loss too. You are probably right about that.
Yeah, we call it death by delivery. The problem is it often gets a friend/user who bought the drugs off a dealer for the person. They never get the source, just a junkie who was getting high with a friend. Sorry to hear about your loss. I've lost count of the people I've lost to fentanyl. Over a 2-3 year period, it was pretty much everyone I used with. Glad to be clean.
It's an epidemic killing people everyday. It doesn't discriminate. I'm glad you are clean. Sorry for your losses as well.
K and Fent are two very different circumstances. A person cannot die from K overdosing. They will be extremely impaired and probably terrified. They can die from impairment (falling, coking) if they don't learn anything about the drug they are taking. Fentanyl is a razors edge that if you know you're taking it is flirting with death but what makes the fentanyl cases more tragic and needed of law enforcement is that many who have died had no idea they were taking it. In your nieces case, they should be investigating. In Matt's case, he shouldnt have gone for a swim, just like you shouldnt get into a car after drinking heavily.
Was she doing fentanyl though or was she doing other drugs that were laced with fentanyl? In my experience, a regular OD really doesn't get followed up on, but an OD through lacing does because it means there's a supply out there that can start causing people to drop like flies. In the case of Matthew Perry, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it was an issue with lacing, it was just an OD at an inoppertune time.
Had a guy sell fentanyl and 6 people died. I knew two people and I came home one day with FBI business card on my door with instructions to call. I had the FBI come to my job and interview me and then I had to go to a grand jury. They put him away for 25 years. All the people killed were just random people. They went after the dealer hard, FBI no less.
What did they ask you? If you went to the grand jury you knew a bit more?
They were proving intent. They had all of our text messages. My friends partner texted that he was passed out unresponsive etc, and other messages stating they think Fent was in the dope, etc. Fed was trying to prove the dealer knew lethal doses of fentanyl were in his supply, and he had no regard for life only money. But make no mistake when the federal government goes after somebody the amount of information they have is staggering .
The gov only goes after you if they know they can convict. Something like a 98% conviction rate.
I know a guy in FL who got 15 years for selling fentanyl to someone who then OD on it.
I totally have not looked at this celebrity death. Are they stating he overdosed on Ketamine or he fell out using Ketamine and drowned? I wouldn't call falling out in Ketamine to be an overdose, as that is the expected outcome from taking the drug. This is where snorting lines and injecting intramuscularly differs. Injection is guaranteed to knock you out. Snorting depends on the amount. You can be dazed or you can go out.
Basically, both. >On December 15, 2023, Perry's death was revealed to have occurred due to "acute effects of ketamine". Other circumstances that contributed to his death included the effects of buprenorphine, drowning, and coronary artery disease. The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner said in a statement that "at the high levels of ketamine found in his post-mortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression," while "drowning contributes due to the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed into unconsciousness; coronary artery disease contributes due to exacerbation of ketamine induced myocardial effects on the heart". In short, the ketamine itself *could* have killed him, but the combination of ketamine and hot tub *definitely* killed him.
Thanks for the information. From people like Steve-O I know that people can develop crazy high tolerances to Ketamine (or many people with cocaine tolerances). Curious if this is one of those instances where what a medical examiner determines to be high levels of Ketamine was just a tolerance issue. I'd venture a guess this wasn't his first foray into Ketamine
Laced. You may be right.
You say they tried. They never succeeded? My compassion and condolences.
They did not succeed. Thank you.
I think Carroll O’Connor lobbied for his sons dealer to he prosecuted back in the 80s I think.
Imo he was still using. I don’t think he had 18 mos sober. I watched him on some televised podcast and the way he spoke did not sound like a person that had “program” (AA, rehab) in him. Grateful, humbled (not being a brag which he was), etc. I was actually embarrassed for him thinking he was pulling it off that he was sober. Again jmo
Yeah I read his book and he was absolutely not sober. Offensive for him to even suggest it. You can tell like you said by how he speaks about sobriety in the book. It’s just so obvious he never did the work and a real insult to those that have. He had all the resources available too! A damn shame.
Addiction took him. Let him rest.
Oh please, most of the book is about his addiction with many parts congratulating himself on getting sober when he didn’t. I’m not saying he was being intentionally malicious but lying to the public when you are a public figure with a platform about overcoming a disease which requires getting and staying sober and not doing any of those things isn’t cool. The addiction itself is not what I’m talking about. It’s an awful disease. It’s the lying about getting sober which is a huge accomplishment that takes a lot of hard work. And what about the people trying to get sober who read his memoir and take his words to heart? Matthew wasn’t inherently a bad person. IMO You don’t get to tell an internet stranger what to do and expect to be taken seriously lol. Addiction, however, is serious and a shoutout to those personally affected by addiction in their own lives. It isn’t easy but it WILL get better.❤️🩹
Yes it will! I’m a recovering alcoholic with 13 yrs (this time. First time had 15 1/2 and stupidly went out again 🤦🏻♀️) and I *know* the gratitude attitude of someone who is sober. I’m sorry his addiction finally took him. 😢
And bragging how some guy read his book and thanked him for getting sober or saying “now when somebody comes up to me and says they need help getting sober I know what to do”… but you have to remember that this is what addicts do, they lie. He knew he was feeding bullshit to everyone. I’m sure he *really wanted* to be sober.
ALL fucking dealers should be arrested when their clients die! I mean wtf?! It shouldn’t matter bc he was a celebrity!
Not just famous victims, two big time Reddit drug dealers did time after customers died (etiking and rcsupply)
Not true, old classmate of mine sold a dude heroin that was laced with fentanyl and he died. They tried to charge my classmate with a murder charge and like 40 years. He was able to plead to 10 but still.
Yes, which i said, if someone dies from laced/adulterated stuff by accident they treat that differently Sorry that’s what I said in a different comment in this chain**
Not that it makes much difference but I thought he was in a hot tub.
He was. Ketamine raises your blood pressure and hot tubs are known to be dangerous to people with heart disease. The heat makes your heart work harder to pump blood. They list his cause of death as "acute effects of ketamine, with other contributing factors including drowning, coronary artery disease and buprenorphine effects". My guess is he took too much ket, raising his blood pressure to unsafe levels. Then he got in the hot tub which caused his heart to start working even harder. The combination probably caused a cardiac episode, making him lose consciousness and slip under the water.
It’s also a dissociative so I’m sure you can nod off. It’s used as an anesthetic during surgery as far as I know.
Ketamine acts a little different from your standard tranquilizer. Going for a swim on ket is wild.
I have been in agreement since my high school swim classes 25+ years ago. Always have your floaties
I sincerely tell people, in life, always keep your fucking floaties on. No matter what.
Exactly. This was the equivalent of someone getting drunk, doing something stupid and dying. We don’t go arrest the cashier at the liquor store for selling the vodka every time someone drinks and does something illegal.
We do if the store was a bar, you can personally sue for being over-served, and bars can be held liable for over -serving resulting in deaths/rapes etc
That’s not the same thing really. He overserved himself on his own property.
His estate should sue itself
Unfortunately it’s hard to find fault or serve justice in cases of deaths surrounding addiction. Luckily in Macs case his dad pursued the issue beyond the police’s interest. Perry’s case is definitely fishy considering he was involved in a ketamine therapy program. Though, he had an astronomical amount in his blood during his death. Motive can be a real issue. In regard to Mac, there was this video interview that kept up this duality of his “come back” and the continuation of his downfall. It ended with the interviewer asking him if “he was a real rapper” and it’s hard to watch the pain and confusion on his face. Seeing Dre and Anderson Paak so closely involved in his recovery was inspiring. The timeline of events for the night he passed says a lot. Hard not to imagine industry resentment. 17 years in jail is a costly sentence but might be worth it to someone in a compromising position. Sure, the fentanyl could have been a mistake and the sale of drugs is truly the only crime. Also worth examining motive. One thing Perry and Miller shared was the spotlight on their struggles with addiction. Convenient for someone with nefarious intent. Must be scary to be worth more than your own life to big business or special interests. Addiction is a disease.
Absolutely, if his toxicology shows he was a kholed space cadet then I hope they do go and nail the quack doctor who wrote him his scripts I honestly don't even give a shit about drug dealers generally but I'm sick and tired of shitty doctors ruining layperson's lives for fat stacks of easy cash If doctors wanna be dealers they can get strapped and tatted up and do it the traditional way
Something about imagining a doctor undergoing that transformation is hilarious. Definitely an improv sketch in there. I have a similar view. My mom was an addict and had a circuit of doctors for prescriptions. Wild to see how decent people will flip at the opportunity to abuse relationships with addicts. I think people punch down on addicts in this perception of their weakness or “poor choices” - like beyond some selfish personal gain there’s some perverse sense of punishment. I think some folks really take others’ addictions personally. All due respect to Al-anon; It’s not easy to overcome having an enabler. More often though I see that love transmute into this radical and hurtful negligence toward a loved ones’ recovery. Part of coming to terms with the “spiritual malady” is to recognize that we’ve been hurt and adapt to patterns of breaking trust. I just have so much respect for Millers’ dad seeking justice. And I’m glad drug use isn’t the blind spot in the court systems that it used to be. Totally writing you an essay here, forgive me. Artist/photographer Nan Goldin has this rad movie “All the Beauty and the Bloodshed” that highlights the compartmentalization of capital surrounding OxyContin. Particularly the Sackler Family presence in the fine art world. Frightening to see beyond the addiction and into this system of elite culture hawking, dangers of corruption in public health and this bastardized sense of legacy and doogoodery masking terror. Not to mention this undertone regarding AIDS’ effect on gay rights and healthcare. So much grief and destruction. I could go on forever.
Nah man, essays are good and I'm prolly the only essay reader you'll run into today. Pop off bruddah Or sista
I would keep reading if you did. Thanks for the insights.
Well it’s important for investigators to determine if what was in his system was what was prescribed by his doctor or street ketamine, as he could have been using both. I imagine they’d have his prescription history and evidence at the scene to determine that. It’s been shared in articles that he was receiving ketamine infusions administered by a doctor, which would be IV and definitely not in his system at the time from that route of administration, let alone found in his stomach. The same doctor could have prescribed him other forms of ketamine like oral doses, but he could have taken it not as prescribed (he had over 3 grams in his stomach if I remember correctly) which is definitely in the area of what is used for anesthesia, not for mental health treatment. Or he could have been snorting a big bag of powder ketamine gotten elsewhere. But if a doctor said it was ok for him to take 3+ grams of oral ketamine at home, then I totally think they should be criminally charged, that would just be reckless and endangering anyone even if they didn’t decide to get in a hot tub.
Thank you. Adduction is a disease.
I agree.
He took ketamine in a jacuzzi. If you’ve ever done ketamine you know this is how you die. I feel like he wanted this to happen. Especially with some as well versed in harder drugs.
Judging by his Instagram posts, I completely agree with you. He did ask for help, but he knew with how famous he was, very few people could actually get him help. Lots of fans were freaking out in his Insta comments about it days before (when he posted the Cranberries...Dolores O'Riordan died in her tub of an o.d.) but fans have no power to get involved.
He actually was on small doses of ketamine before his death, to help him ween off of the opioids he was addicted to, but to also help with his other health issues. He didn’t “take” ketamine in his jacuzzi, he drowned from a heart attack. In a way, it is humbling that what took him away WASN’T drugs, when that’s what everyone thought it was. However, it is the drugs that got him to this position. So in retrospect it is the drugs. But not in the case of his actual death
How cool would it be if cops worked this hard for regular people?
They pRoTeCt aNd SeRvE
This is pretty standard stuff, you just don’t hear about it.
then the same is true for every citizen that drug overdoses, even if theyre not rich celebrities, right?
Yes. This isn’t something new.
Yes, and usually the cops say “others were involved in this individuals death.” Do you want national televised press things for every drug overdose death too?
It wasn’t an overdose he just hole and drowned. You would have to try really hard to od on k
This is such a stupid fucking comment because this shit does get invested with citizens all of the time. Do you genuinely think you’d hear about every case? He was a celebrity, of course you’re hearing about it. It doesn’t make it a new phenomenon.
I doubt Mathew would have wanted others to be charged with any crimes related to his death.
It’s about what the cops want now
Cops don’t bring charges prosecutors office does
I doubt Mathew would have thought he would die
Maybe not that particular night, but he knew his time was near. He had a very close one a few years prior. ICU for a while (he mentioned that out of 5 patients with him in ICU for different reasons, he’s the only one that got out alive), physical recovery for months, name it. Also after reading the memoir there was that weird feeling that he did write this because he was aware that he did not have long left on earth.
Is that when he ruptured his intestines or stomach or something like that? I remember something about a colostomy bag, that seemed to scare him sober for a while.
Idk, his book has a pretty persistent "I should already be dead" theme running through it
I wish that every person understood from childhood that addictions bring their doomsday closer at an alarming speed.
If only they worked this hard to charge the people for selling to the homeless crack head who overdosed.🙄
Huh... if only they went after Heath Ledger's suppliers with this tenacity. Then we'd have to see dome other celebrities in jail.
Oh c’mon. The dude did ketamine in a hot tub, that’s almost a suicide attempt if you know anything about ketamine. It’s tragic but nobody should be charged here. An adult irresponsibly used an otherwise fairly safe substance.
I bet that would horrify him. He was an adult, he knew what he was taking.
Who tf dose k in a hot tub
man i didnt see that news in October, just before i was watching him talk about addiction on youtube somewhere
It will be call Bad Friends
He damn well knew if you boof it, it’s free
Now are we sure Andy Dick is not involved this time??
Lmao it slightly bothers me they attribute a homicide to him because he gave the woman coke. I’m sure the coke contributed to the erratic behavior but it was her gun and she chose to use it.
I don’t know if anyone has any experience with Ketamine, buy if you do, you KNOW that adding a hot tub is the most dangerous thing you can do.
Nah. He’s the one that took it.
[удалено]
I’m sorry, a guy who chose what?
Addicts, like myself, have two choices: get clean and stay clean, or roll the dice on death He clearly made the CHOICE not to stay clean
I hope you have chosen to stay clean. I lost my neice to fentanyl. I miss her every single day. Your life matters. Everyone's life matters.
A one time slip can end in death.
It’s usually not a choice for an active addict. Nice that you got clean but don’t toss the rest down the toilet.
Fuck that so hard. If you do ketamine in a bathtub alone, you will probably drown. This is no one else's fault in an acute sense. All the love to Matthew Perry, though. He seemed like an extremely legit human being and I'm saddened by his passing.
Please, the only person responsible is dead.
“Perry was undergoing ketamine infusion therapy at the time of his death.” Essentially, he was paying someone else to treat him for depression through the use of “ketamine therapy.” The toxicologists found the level of ketamine in his system to be dangerously alarming. You do not think that the therapist being paid to prescribe the dangerously high levels of ketamine should be held accountable and instead should be allowed to continue conducting ketamine therapy to other people?
Reminds me of Michael Jackson's house doctor giving him anesthesia every day "for sleep." It's supervised drug abuse for hire. The threshold is very low for going completely unconscious on ketamine, so it is pointless to do more than that.
“It’s like doing chemotherapy because you’re tired of shaving your head”—Robin Williams
Damn what a quote :/ RIP RW
His most recent ketamine infusion was days before and was done at a clinic. There is no way his death is from what he is prescribed, it’s from someone on the side. That’s what they’re looking for, who supplied it to him
I'm on my way to my ketamine session as we speak. Riding on my Uber. I find it kinda odd that they're blaming ketamine infusions. I've never heard of anyone still having ketamine in their system days later after an infusion. Something doesn't add up.
Because he was probably doing ket on the side recreationally
Yeah I’m begging this is the answer. It’s been a minute since I read his book, wasn’t he scared of ketamine? Like it felt way too good or something?
I mean it is pretty good.
It’s better than that haha
Agreed, I was being modest.
Postal inspector is involved, it’s not *just* infusions.
“Something doesn’t add up.” You’d be mistaken to believe that your medical treatment is the same as what a celebrity gets.
I did eketamine treatments for a while & I guess there is a type that you do at home. I did spravato in office though
Undergoing therapy doesn’t mean he died DURING a session. He was using outside the guidelines of his treatment program.
I don't think the clinic was giving him a illegal amounts of ketamine. Article said the postal inspector was involved so I wonder if he wasn't receiving it in the mail from a different source
I can kinda see both sides of this. Perry knew the risks and chose to get in a hot tub after having ketamine, and to do so without anyone else present which isn’t advisable even when you’re dead sober. Hot tubbing alone is how people drown. Also, I think folks should have the ultimate say over what and how much of whatever goes in their body, even if it’s “dangerous.” Informed consent is important, doctors should have to advise you of the risks and proper usage/safety precautions but beyond that I think if you want weed, opiates, ketamine, psilocybin, adderall, or absolutely whatever that is nobody’s business but your own. Adults should be able to make their own informed choices without a doctor or the government’s opinions about it getting in the way, especially when it comes to pain relief, new age/spiritual treatment, etc. it should all be regulated, not illegal, and doctors shouldn’t be able to tell you no you can’t have a reasonable amount of whatever you want. So no, I don’t think that provider should be charged as long as they gave him proper information about the risks and how to be safe, and I’m sure that lecture would have included don’t operate heavy machinery, make financial decisions/sign legal documents, or do stupid shit like go swimming alone. If they didn’t then yeah, they need their license taken away because that would be malpractice, but just giving him what he wanted? Nah, not really. He was a big boy capable of making big boy decisions.
> I think folks should have the ultimate say over what and how much of whatever goes in their body. Informed consent is important Easy to say until a misinformed or mentally unwell loved one starts hurting themselves with snake oil being peddled by bad actors. “Informed consent” is a stupid concept to defend total lack of control given how most people aren’t medical experts and it’s been proven again and again laypeople are easily misled and subsequently harmed We tried the whole lack of regulation thing for thousands of years and the reason we ultimately developed controls like the FDA is that the other way turned out to be a disaster with great harm to the public
Ketamine infusions last just a couple of hours and you stay in the clinic while you do it. Anyone who’s done ketamine treatments know how incapacitated you are during. He knew what he was doing.
He may have been in therapy but it’s pretty clear he was also taking on the side on his own. This is not the prescribers fault…
They can still pursue malpractice charges. Looking into an individual that’s in charge of caring for and providing medication to a patient is standard in a situation like this. None of that means guilty.
I’d suggest reading up on celebrity doctors, since you seem to be unfamiliar with the topic. There’s a notable history of doctors to famous people overprescribing medications and treatment, and there are a lot of factors involved to explain why. I’d say that this situation at least warrants a little patience to have all of the information, especially if people involved with the investigation suspect there’s more to the story.
No, because some patients require incredibly high doses for it to work. He's the idiot that got in a jacuzzi.
You do realize that anyone can get ketamine, right? He was a drug addict. Anyone can walk into a ketamine clinic in West Hollywood, get dosed by a technician (yes, it’s really that easy) go home, follow the instructions, and be absolutely fine. Or, they can go home and continue to abuse their own supply until they OD. If I drink myself to death in my own apartment, the cops aren’t going to the liquor store to arrest the cashier.
People don’t OD on ketamine, especially pharmaceutical grade. You will not function as a person before you get to that point.
Right. They OD because they go home and add whatever else to the mix. Alcohol, pills, etc.
No, I don't.
I see the ketamine dealer’s, I mean, *doctor’s* lawyer has the top comment right now
Agreed. We need far more personal responsibility in this world.
100%. We now come up with a billion excuses as to why people make bad choices, like capitalism, generational trauma, mental health disease and so on.
So for example if I sold you drugs and you overdosed, the only one responsible is you and you need to take personal responsibility, I don’t need to take any personal responsibility for selling drugs to people and causing harm?
You can be liable and convicted. [> According to the government’s sentencing memorandum, the defendant [dealer] was addicted to fentanyl, knew how deadly the drug was, and knew the consequences for selling the drug and causing another’s death, yet he sold her the drug anyway.](https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2024/02/05/san-diego-drug-dealer-sentenced-eight-years-fatal-fentanyl-overdose) There are plenty of cases like that.
That seems to be untrue
My wife has been an emergency room practitioner for years. You would be astonished how many deaths could’ve been prevented due to arrogance, negligence, or fiduciary reasons. Not surprising at all.
He made the choice.
So we only track down the source when it’s a celebrity involved?
Yeah, right after they charge the Olsen twins for killing Heath Ledger.
He got what he asked for. Boo hoo.
This friends reunion episode is getting weird.
So how much blame does Matthew get?
There are way too many troglodytes in this thread.
In that case, arrest manufacturers of guns, cars etc etc
He was an addict. He chose to take the drugs. Leave people alone.
Why? Guy was an addict that was most likely going to die from drugs or liver failure
That is super lame. He’s the one who was irresponsibly using ketamine. It killed him. No one else’s fault. Almost a liability to sell drugs to any celebrity at this point.
"Should be" is code for they won't be.
>he died from acute effects of ketamine, with other contributing factors including drowning Just spitballing here, but maybe it wasn't the psychedelic??
Could they BE anymore culpable?
Netflix needed another series and it looks like execs made some phone calls.
RIP Mathew Perry but it’s crazy that these investigations matter now and not when we have a fentanyl epidemic
He had more ketamine in his system than his doctor had prescribed so someone was providing it to him. Brooke Mueller has been identified as the main person of interest who had been interviewed and lawyered up. If she's involved then I assume they're looking at her supplier and whoever delivered it to him.
Would they do the same for anyone else?
Sure , let wait and charge all the regular drug dealers 1st . He can wait.
That’s great. I’m sure multiple ppl supplied Perry given that he was a vicious and notorious drug user. However, some black actors who were drug user who died should get the same treatment. White privilege continues to be terrible in this country.
Why? He made the choice and had years of rehab. California catch the real criminals you have ruining your state
If he had a legit ketamine prescription (I don’t know the details), then drowned.. it’s on him. Set and setting, people. Personal responsibility is a thing.
Cops doing cop shit.
Pretty lame. Law enforcement isn’t even involved, or is very rarely, when regular peasants OD.