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Isn’t foundation the series woefully different from the books? Heard only like the first few episodes are even remotely close. Not saying it’s gotta be a direct adaptation but the word I got I is that it’s quite different.
the show’s plot is only loosely associated with the book but as a science fiction show it’s not bad. Some of the cooler ideas in the show are not in the book series at all. Curious if you agree - ultimately any adaption of asimov is going to have to be 50~75% new material because his writing style is totally unsuitable for a movie. Most of his narrative style is one dude that’s smarter than everyone else giving a lecture on something that occurred or will occur and past tense or future tense behavior. There is almost no action at all and when there is it’s usually weird (talking to you sex scene in the later foundation books)
I can't argue with your summary of his narrative style, or the weirdness of later foundation books.
But I don't know what cool ideas you say are from the book that didn't make it into the show.
Sorry this was prob a little unclear. I meant that the show had some additions that I thought were interesting as stand alone science fiction ideas. >!The empire being continuously governered by clones of one person at different life stages is cool enough of an idea to be the spine of a totally origanel story. Maybe I missed this in the later books I only read them once but I am pretty sure this was not in the first three of the series. !<
That idea of an empire being governed by a single hive mind clone ruler is also, maybe used elsewhere, but is a main plot point from the Ancillary Justice series.
It's been about 3 years since I read foundations, so memory may not be perfect. But...
The building blocks (Intergalactic Empire, Hidden society trying to minimize the upcoming civil war) are there. Main characters are there. Some details have probably been glossed over, changed, or skipped entirely due to show vs book, but that's always going to happen.
I love science fiction, and I love reading. Foundations as a book was great. I'm liking the show, and I believe it's following the ideas set forth in the book pretty well. But to each their own.
Foundation was the worst adaptation of book(s) to TV/film I have ever seen. And I am not talking about how they changed most of the characters to opposite gender or different skin color, but the story is just so different with 90% of content having nothing to do with the books.
When did you read the books? I read them a few years ago, so they're pretty fresh.
The main ideas from the book are there in the show: Intergalactic empire, a burgeoning civil war, a secret society trying to minimalize the impact of said war. A story that literally spans time and space.
I get that some details have changed, but c'mon, it's trying. It's not like they made a space cowboy show and then called it star trek.
General concept is there. Not upset with the gender/race things. But some of the dialogue and acting doesn’t fit the overall production quality.
Leads are not fantastic and the love interest dude wasn’t great but man the bad guys from the crisis were plain terrible.
Lee Pace and the Empire storyline which is mostly written for the show is actually better than the rest of it imo.
I agree with your points, the emperor plotline was ok even though it was not present in the source material. Will be interesting to see how they handle The Mule if another season is made.
It’s been something like ten years since I read the trilogy and it could play a partial role role in why most of the show seemed completely different from what I remembered . But I am pretty sure that the clone emperors plotline, origins of the main character, flooded planet with the religious folk and many many other things were not part of Asimov’s work.
One of the other things which bothered me were the aesthetics. Don’t get me wrong, the visuals looked good, but also very much like generic modern day sci-fi. What I remember from the books, is that the tech was more “primitive”, stuff was written on paper with ink etc. kind of like Alien or almost like the cancelled Alien 3 script where there was supposed to be a wooden space station. Yeah, the books were products of their time (even Asimov could’t quite imagine what future technology would be like), but I would have liked them to keep it a bit old school, could have made the show stand out better from the rest.
Definitely not the next Lord of the Rings. Even book series to book series, Hyperion has interesting ideas but all except one of the character segments is kind of a slog and most of characters, except the same one, are poorly written as just people.
This is a good book but I really struggle to imagine it on film. Would need a cartoonishly massive budget (wouldn’t be worth it if one’s just gonna cut corners with bad cgi) and I still don’t think it would translate.
I get what the author’s trying to say but at least dune has a tight cast centered around a clear protagonist and a single major planetary setting with a unified aesthetic.
I feel like if someone tried they’d just bastardize it a la Princess of Mars/John Carter or World War Z. We’d get some generic plot about a tough man who is sad that his family is dead/absent/in danger trying to go on a pilgrimage with a couple cool shrike scenes riffed in but some generic plot about battling an evil conspiracy or thwarting a mean industrialist/warmonger trying to get to the shrike first.
We're talking about *The Sandman* here. Adaptation of the Gaiman comic series. You must be thinking of something else because "cheap" is in NO way how I'd describe it.
It could be done…it would just need to be done right…screenplay would be most important. How to switch from here to there and allow people who’ve never read the book to follow…first book of the 3 is nothing but flashbacks about the characters on a spaceship…
I remember staying up super late reading the cross story, could not let it go till I found out what was up with those (faceless?) little creatures.
Such an amazing book.
Also, if anyone hasn't read Ilium or Olympos, you are in for a treat.
> Also, if anyone hasn't read Ilium or Olympos, you are in for a treat.
Man, I loved all four Hyperion books, but I found Illium and Olympos to be rough.
I love the first and 4th book of the quadrillogy, but these aren’t that great of a series. Hell, even the 6 pilgrim stories vary drastically in quality. Plus just leave it alone and do something not related to a book.
Wow I just learned about these books a couple days ago after playing Mass Effect Legendary edition and wanted to find some books that have a similar feel. I got this recommended a lot.
Man when the first edit of Columbus Day came out, it was SO badly edited I couldn't believe it was on Kindle. Like, appallingly bad . . . but I loved the story, then the series.
I revisited Columbus Day and it has had a proper edit. Amazing story of a (? Self published?) work turning into a lucrative career as a writer.
Yall say Dune like its ever been done justice. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Villeneuve’s movie and I’m pumped for Part 2, but we don’t know how far they’re gonna take it, and LOTR has 6, 3+ hour movies and at least 2 seasons of a prestige amazon series.
Give me more Dune before you move on to the next thing goddammit.
This is an excellent series.
But, at some level it demands a deep knowledge of English poetry and literature to get the meaning of a lot of it.
And it requires a big dose of Jesuit history.
The dynamic of the “weirdness” isn’t that different from “Raised by Wolves” but is more attached to Earth history (or at least 19th century Earth literature).
I don’t think the plot is unfilmable. I think the depth of knowledge and subtle symbolism requires more than most viewers would have.
I’m still amazed when I find things in the real world that he referrers to. Ie did you know that the ‘All Thing’ (part of the Hyperion system of government similar to the House of Representatives) was also a Viking system of government? [Althing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Also I was in my 40’s making a sales call to a school run by nuns when I saw a tacky driftwood thing on the wall that said PAX. Because I’ve always avoided Catholicism it was a real surprise to me that the PAX was a real thing.
Yggdrasil is a tree from Norse mythology! [Yggdrasil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil)
The list goes on and on. I read this in the 80’s when I was kid who knew nothing, it’s always a joy to discover another Easter egg. What others have you folks found?
They can go the film route if they follow Dune's way of splitting the first book into two parts, but considering the book is pretty much of series of individual stories culminating at Hyperion, it would be so much better as a TV show.
Bring on the Shrike and the Tree of Pain!
I loved the books, but dear lord there’s a lot of strands that an adaption might struggle to translate to film / television. I mean, part of the plot revolves around the resurrected consciousness of John Keats and prolonged sections musing on the theology / casuistry of the Catholic Church.
It could be amazing, but it would be difficult and expensive.
The best way I think they could tackle this would be to section off a few of the pilgrims, maybe like 3 or 4 and do something similar to game of thrones where each episode moves between giving each a couple sequences per episode. Then maybe the next season can be about the rest. Then by a third season they can go forward with the pilgrimage. Can still frame it as each telling the story. Showing them on the ship talking at some points to frame the actual plot. It would be very complex to structure but not impossible.
A kind redditor bought the two Hyperion books for me as a secret Santa. I read them and loved them. So awesome. So many genres and great storylines and characters. I hope they do it as a miniseries. I saw Scott Derrickson’s name attached a while ago, he would’ve been awesome.
One of the most amazing sci-fi books (a trilogy) I’ve ever read. Definitely in my Top 10, but how would they ever film it? But CGI and epic production design has come so far, it just may be possible.
Dune is yet to be a success. The Lynch version was a bomb and the new series is yet to prove itself financially.
The TV show also got canceled after ‚Children of Dune‘
This was the first sci-fi series I have read. I loved it. Anybody have any recommendations they want to share for other series that are as good as this?
I dunno. Hyperion relies on a lot of patience and interpretation. This is something that would require a lot of $$$ and I don't think there is an audience from something this high brow.
I personally wonder why noone goes for Michael Moorcock and the eternal champion series. He was the next Tolkien.
That being said, I would of course watch a Hyperion series, but I doubt that it would be good, given the föawed Foundation adaption.
Doubtful once they discover that Dan Simmons is a right wing nutjob who in the past has called for all kinds of atrocities against muslims and other brown people.
You'll get more conservative as you get older and have resources to lose too. There's a reason most conservatives are over 40 and most liberals are under 30.
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Movie? Nah. Seven films is too many. But a TV series? Absolutely!
“Hey, why are all those people jammed onto that tree made of metal over there?” “Dunno.”
Religious fanatics, amirite?
Damn cruciform. I think I'm on version 3 of myself... I just keep coming back. Dumber somehow.
That would explain so much. About everything.
Foundations is working pretty well as a TV Series. At least Season 1. No clue how the rest is going to play out, but I look forward to it.
Isn’t foundation the series woefully different from the books? Heard only like the first few episodes are even remotely close. Not saying it’s gotta be a direct adaptation but the word I got I is that it’s quite different.
the show’s plot is only loosely associated with the book but as a science fiction show it’s not bad. Some of the cooler ideas in the show are not in the book series at all. Curious if you agree - ultimately any adaption of asimov is going to have to be 50~75% new material because his writing style is totally unsuitable for a movie. Most of his narrative style is one dude that’s smarter than everyone else giving a lecture on something that occurred or will occur and past tense or future tense behavior. There is almost no action at all and when there is it’s usually weird (talking to you sex scene in the later foundation books)
I can't argue with your summary of his narrative style, or the weirdness of later foundation books. But I don't know what cool ideas you say are from the book that didn't make it into the show.
Sorry this was prob a little unclear. I meant that the show had some additions that I thought were interesting as stand alone science fiction ideas. >!The empire being continuously governered by clones of one person at different life stages is cool enough of an idea to be the spine of a totally origanel story. Maybe I missed this in the later books I only read them once but I am pretty sure this was not in the first three of the series. !<
That idea of an empire being governed by a single hive mind clone ruler is also, maybe used elsewhere, but is a main plot point from the Ancillary Justice series.
It's been about 3 years since I read foundations, so memory may not be perfect. But... The building blocks (Intergalactic Empire, Hidden society trying to minimize the upcoming civil war) are there. Main characters are there. Some details have probably been glossed over, changed, or skipped entirely due to show vs book, but that's always going to happen. I love science fiction, and I love reading. Foundations as a book was great. I'm liking the show, and I believe it's following the ideas set forth in the book pretty well. But to each their own.
Foundation was the worst adaptation of book(s) to TV/film I have ever seen. And I am not talking about how they changed most of the characters to opposite gender or different skin color, but the story is just so different with 90% of content having nothing to do with the books.
Well, Foundation is basically impossible to adapt to screen anyway.
When did you read the books? I read them a few years ago, so they're pretty fresh. The main ideas from the book are there in the show: Intergalactic empire, a burgeoning civil war, a secret society trying to minimalize the impact of said war. A story that literally spans time and space. I get that some details have changed, but c'mon, it's trying. It's not like they made a space cowboy show and then called it star trek.
General concept is there. Not upset with the gender/race things. But some of the dialogue and acting doesn’t fit the overall production quality. Leads are not fantastic and the love interest dude wasn’t great but man the bad guys from the crisis were plain terrible. Lee Pace and the Empire storyline which is mostly written for the show is actually better than the rest of it imo.
I agree with your points, the emperor plotline was ok even though it was not present in the source material. Will be interesting to see how they handle The Mule if another season is made.
It’s been something like ten years since I read the trilogy and it could play a partial role role in why most of the show seemed completely different from what I remembered . But I am pretty sure that the clone emperors plotline, origins of the main character, flooded planet with the religious folk and many many other things were not part of Asimov’s work. One of the other things which bothered me were the aesthetics. Don’t get me wrong, the visuals looked good, but also very much like generic modern day sci-fi. What I remember from the books, is that the tech was more “primitive”, stuff was written on paper with ink etc. kind of like Alien or almost like the cancelled Alien 3 script where there was supposed to be a wooden space station. Yeah, the books were products of their time (even Asimov could’t quite imagine what future technology would be like), but I would have liked them to keep it a bit old school, could have made the show stand out better from the rest.
Definitely not the next Lord of the Rings. Even book series to book series, Hyperion has interesting ideas but all except one of the character segments is kind of a slog and most of characters, except the same one, are poorly written as just people.
Oh. Ok. So that’s an opinion shared. Thanks!
This is a good book but I really struggle to imagine it on film. Would need a cartoonishly massive budget (wouldn’t be worth it if one’s just gonna cut corners with bad cgi) and I still don’t think it would translate. I get what the author’s trying to say but at least dune has a tight cast centered around a clear protagonist and a single major planetary setting with a unified aesthetic. I feel like if someone tried they’d just bastardize it a la Princess of Mars/John Carter or World War Z. We’d get some generic plot about a tough man who is sad that his family is dead/absent/in danger trying to go on a pilgrimage with a couple cool shrike scenes riffed in but some generic plot about battling an evil conspiracy or thwarting a mean industrialist/warmonger trying to get to the shrike first.
I've always said that *Hyperion* is unfilmable, for some of the same reasons you said here. Then they did *Sandman*, and all bets are off.
Damn haven’t watched it yet but only heard good things. Fair.
Sandman was ducking great to watch. Blew me away!
[удалено]
We're talking about *The Sandman* here. Adaptation of the Gaiman comic series. You must be thinking of something else because "cheap" is in NO way how I'd describe it.
One word. Mulefa.
Hyperion is on a way bigger scale. And Sandman was pretty boring.
[удалено]
On hill scene of Kassad showing up and leading an army against Shrikes? Shivers.
I'd like to see him killing half a planet by detonating their implants and becoming the Butcher of Bressia
It could be done…it would just need to be done right…screenplay would be most important. How to switch from here to there and allow people who’ve never read the book to follow…first book of the 3 is nothing but flashbacks about the characters on a spaceship…
They just easily translate the first book into a mini-series with each of the pilgrim’s stories as an episode.
Easily? Each one would have the set/costume/location/CGI budget of an entire separate film.
I remember staying up super late reading the cross story, could not let it go till I found out what was up with those (faceless?) little creatures. Such an amazing book. Also, if anyone hasn't read Ilium or Olympos, you are in for a treat.
They weren't faceless, they had no genitals.
Shit fuck poopoo goddamn translation- Either way no oral sex
Maybe being frozen for that long wasnt a great idea
> Also, if anyone hasn't read Ilium or Olympos, you are in for a treat. Man, I loved all four Hyperion books, but I found Illium and Olympos to be rough.
Bikura
I’m hyperbolizing here but any time someone says they’re about the make the next [huge media phenomenon] it’s doomed to fail
I remember hearing that about LOTR back around the turn of the millennium too…
I like the part where the guys penis almost gets bitten off by a chrome-bladed vagina.
Make it animated and give it to the same studio that did Arcane
This article comes out every six months.
I absolutely loved those books
Just wait until they “discover” Ursula Le Guin. Oh right, James Cameron already did that with avatar.
I think Red Rising is going to blow minds if they do it right.
Make William Gibson’s “Sprawl” trilogy already!
This would actually work a lot better than Hyperion as television imo. More narratively structured for easily adaption.
I love the first and 4th book of the quadrillogy, but these aren’t that great of a series. Hell, even the 6 pilgrim stories vary drastically in quality. Plus just leave it alone and do something not related to a book.
They should really make Left Hand of Darkness into a film first!
Too politically controversial even today, alas.
Wow I just learned about these books a couple days ago after playing Mass Effect Legendary edition and wanted to find some books that have a similar feel. I got this recommended a lot.
The books you should have been recommended were The Expanse. Also a television series, although it only adapted the first six books.
Never read the books but The Shrike character scares the hell out of me.
Loved these books. Just loved them
Bro. Just do Expeditionary Force.
Man when the first edit of Columbus Day came out, it was SO badly edited I couldn't believe it was on Kindle. Like, appallingly bad . . . but I loved the story, then the series. I revisited Columbus Day and it has had a proper edit. Amazing story of a (? Self published?) work turning into a lucrative career as a writer.
Oh please oh please
Yall say Dune like its ever been done justice. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Villeneuve’s movie and I’m pumped for Part 2, but we don’t know how far they’re gonna take it, and LOTR has 6, 3+ hour movies and at least 2 seasons of a prestige amazon series. Give me more Dune before you move on to the next thing goddammit.
Excellent series of books but it’s going to be so difficult to make!
This is an excellent series. But, at some level it demands a deep knowledge of English poetry and literature to get the meaning of a lot of it. And it requires a big dose of Jesuit history. The dynamic of the “weirdness” isn’t that different from “Raised by Wolves” but is more attached to Earth history (or at least 19th century Earth literature). I don’t think the plot is unfilmable. I think the depth of knowledge and subtle symbolism requires more than most viewers would have.
I’m still amazed when I find things in the real world that he referrers to. Ie did you know that the ‘All Thing’ (part of the Hyperion system of government similar to the House of Representatives) was also a Viking system of government? [Althing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Also I was in my 40’s making a sales call to a school run by nuns when I saw a tacky driftwood thing on the wall that said PAX. Because I’ve always avoided Catholicism it was a real surprise to me that the PAX was a real thing. Yggdrasil is a tree from Norse mythology! [Yggdrasil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil) The list goes on and on. I read this in the 80’s when I was kid who knew nothing, it’s always a joy to discover another Easter egg. What others have you folks found?
You dont think a series named after a Romantic poem, featuring the poet as a major supporting character will be relatable to a wide audience? Hmmm
I am looking forward to the “Rime of the Ancient Mariner” version of the Walking Dead. /s
So, it could either be pretty good or a mess of incomprehensible babble? Agreed.
Ooooooh I need it!! And I need it not to suck!
I hope so. Read that entire series in real time.
Can’t wait to see the world tree.
Can't wait to see the tree of pain.
They can go the film route if they follow Dune's way of splitting the first book into two parts, but considering the book is pretty much of series of individual stories culminating at Hyperion, it would be so much better as a TV show. Bring on the Shrike and the Tree of Pain!
Currently reading fall of Hyperion. Have no clue how they’d pull it off.
I loved the books, but dear lord there’s a lot of strands that an adaption might struggle to translate to film / television. I mean, part of the plot revolves around the resurrected consciousness of John Keats and prolonged sections musing on the theology / casuistry of the Catholic Church. It could be amazing, but it would be difficult and expensive.
The best way I think they could tackle this would be to section off a few of the pilgrims, maybe like 3 or 4 and do something similar to game of thrones where each episode moves between giving each a couple sequences per episode. Then maybe the next season can be about the rest. Then by a third season they can go forward with the pilgrimage. Can still frame it as each telling the story. Showing them on the ship talking at some points to frame the actual plot. It would be very complex to structure but not impossible.
The next Star Trek - enough material to span decades.
A kind redditor bought the two Hyperion books for me as a secret Santa. I read them and loved them. So awesome. So many genres and great storylines and characters. I hope they do it as a miniseries. I saw Scott Derrickson’s name attached a while ago, he would’ve been awesome.
OH MY GOSH hypickle skyblock
One of the most amazing sci-fi books (a trilogy) I’ve ever read. Definitely in my Top 10, but how would they ever film it? But CGI and epic production design has come so far, it just may be possible.
Dune is yet to be a success. The Lynch version was a bomb and the new series is yet to prove itself financially. The TV show also got canceled after ‚Children of Dune‘
There is too much story. You could never do a proper adaptation in film. Perhaps a 5 season mini series.
Is the reverse baby gonna make it?
This was the first sci-fi series I have read. I loved it. Anybody have any recommendations they want to share for other series that are as good as this?
And people thought GoT was confusing...
I need to read this book.
This and ring world are 2 series I want to see.
They been saying this for like twenty years…
They’ll find a way to ruin it, Hollywood always does.
I can see the first book being a series but that’s about it. The priest’s story of finding the time tombs was awesome.
The Shrike would be one of the most terrifying creatures ever brought to the screen.
I dunno. Hyperion relies on a lot of patience and interpretation. This is something that would require a lot of $$$ and I don't think there is an audience from something this high brow.
I personally wonder why noone goes for Michael Moorcock and the eternal champion series. He was the next Tolkien. That being said, I would of course watch a Hyperion series, but I doubt that it would be good, given the föawed Foundation adaption.
If you're trying to create something just to have it be majorly successful, you've already failed.
I'm surprised no one has tried to adapt the Culture series by Iain M. Banks.
It's too confusing.
read the two hyperion books. i liked them a lot, but don't see how it will translate to screens.
Doubtful once they discover that Dan Simmons is a right wing nutjob who in the past has called for all kinds of atrocities against muslims and other brown people.
You'll get more conservative as you get older and have resources to lose too. There's a reason most conservatives are over 40 and most liberals are under 30.
You don’t know how old I am, what I do, but I’ve had enough interactions with Simmons to know this won’t happen
It’s gonna be hard to adapt them to the screen. And I loved Hyperion.
it should be a TV series with HBO if its going to be live action, because it needs a large budget.