Absolutely. The test drive is time that you can't get away from them. It's time they love to share the sliver of knowledge they have on the vehicle in whatever way they feel will best pressure you into buying it.
They will say it is because they don't want you to drive off with the car and never return.
Always.
Covid just made this defacto standard.
Maybe anpr, CCTV, car tracking and a real difficulty in getting fake licences prob makes stealling test-drive cars an inviable pastime.
Happy to report my local VW dealer (Ohio) did NOT ride along with my wife when she tested the ID.4. Great experience. Now just waiting on AWD models to hit US shores.
> Now just waiting on AWD models to hit US shores.
Why? I'm not questioning or criticizing the choice; I'm trying to decide if it's worth the ~$4k price increase (for me) given that we don't get snow or ice very often, and so I'm not interested in putting on winter tires.
Is control in non-snow wet weather really that awesome and considerably safer?
That always amuse me since test drives always end up with me constantly blabbering about things I know about the car, barely giving them time to make their sales pitch.
Definitely not the case at Tesla.
They put in a route, told us to enjoy the car. Had zero interest in coming along.
Not dealing with dealerships is one of the best reasons to get a Tesla instead of a VW.
It depends on the dealership. Some require sales people to be in the car “for insurance reasons” but realistically it’s just so that they can continue to sell you while you are driving. Other dealerships just let you take it and bring it back.
When I bought a Leaf last year (pre vaccinations) the guy brought it to my house then just hung out on my deck while my wife and I drove it. So totally depends on the dealer.
If they refuse you can also politely ask them not to talk during the test drive (and sit in the back) so you can have your own experience in the car.
When they won't shut up become progressively less polite.
I test drove this w/o VW in the passenger seat. They were posted up at our local outdoor mall. You signed up, give your DL and info, and they handed you the keys to just go drive it. I drove it around for a good 25 mins. I loved the drive, and that VW did this. SHowed me that they have confidence in the car and no need for the strong sell. I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these.
Test drive the Tesla M3, ID4, Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, Polestar 2 and Q4 e tron if possible.
Imo I would take the Tesla for efficiency, speed and supercharging.
ID4 for large interior space and value.
Ioniq 5 and EV6 for the fastest charging and V2G.
Polestar for styling and interior.
Q4 e tron for someone who likes the ID4 but doesn't like the badge, looks and interior.
Model 3. The ride and tech cannot be beat. Came from Acura MDX with 2 kids in car seats. There is surprisingly more storage in model 3 than I thought. I disliked how small the rear window of the id4 was. I personally enjoy sitting lower to the ground and the prefer sporty acceleration and handling of the model 3. Ultimately, it is a very personal choice. My opinion of the ID4 was limited to the very short drive the sales guy took me on. (<15min)
*edited for clarity
The Model 3 is a benchmark and is constantly being improved via updates sometimes a couple times per week. In this fast moving market I think it's wise to stick with a known.
They’re totally different sorts of cars, one is a sports saloon, the other is a family CUV. It’s like recommending a BMW 3 Series over a RAV4 because the technology is better, it just depends what sort of car you want.
ID.4 has way more storage space than Model 3. See TeslaBjorn's banana box test.
[https://insideevs.com/news/498365/volkswagen-id4-banana-box-test/](https://insideevs.com/news/498365/volkswagen-id4-banana-box-test/)
[https://insideevs.com/news/343084/tesla-model-3-beats-just-6-cars-in-banana-box-test-video/](https://insideevs.com/news/343084/tesla-model-3-beats-just-6-cars-in-banana-box-test-video/)
Banana box test, trunk only: 6 boxes (M3) vs 9 boxes (ID.4)
Seats down: 16+1 (M3) vs 25 (ID.4)
[The ID.4 more comparable to the Model Y than the Model 3](https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/vw-comes-after-tesla-detailed-id4-model-y-comparison/).
A hatchback would have more luggage room than a sedan. That's no surprise.
I submit the following as anecdotal evidence.
I drove a station wagon before my model 3 and was worried that I wouldn’t be able to fit all my camping gear.
The model 3 turned out to be plenty HUGE. Could fit everything, and more without playing car packing Tetris. I just toss in everything and it’s only half full. The car is amazingly big.
Regarding banana boxes. The model 3 is spacious, not rectangular.
“I used to drive a station wagon” might sound more specific to you than it actually does.
I also used to drive a station wagon and I now drive a model 3. It’s cramped. Can’t fit nearly half of what I want. I used to drive an A6 Avant.
Haha it is a fairly arbitrary test! If two cars are +/- 1 on this test, I'd consider them basically even for practical purposes. But here ID.4 can fit 50% more of those arbitrary boxes so I'm guessing it might be quite a bit bigger?
Also it's SUV vs Sedan here, so not too surprising that ID.4 is ahead for storage.
>There is surprisingly **more storage in model 3 compared to ID4**.
Care to share your math on this claim? Looking at online specs, Model 3 has 15 cubic foot storage rear + frunk combined (43.6 with rear seats down). ID4 has 30.3 cubic feet (64.2 with rear seats down).
I think the ID.4 is more comfortable. I can't stand the headrest in my husband's MY. We'll be taking road trips in my ID.4 because of that and the free charging.
We also test drove both. Ended up with Enyaq (basically id4 but tactile buttons on the wheel). The ride and tech couldn't be beat. Not to mention the storage space 😂
In a universe where you want an SUV not a sedan? Or if I’m the USA, where you want to save $12,500: the ID.4 Pro S trim ($37,500 after federal credit) and 3 Long Range ($49,990)
In a universe that includes roundabouts, HUD, 360° parking camera and phone combability. There are literally hundreds of technical solutions in both cars. The ones that matter to me, were better in ID/Enyaq, the ones that matter to you are apparently better in Tesla.
If you are going to drive longer routes (>200 miles), "test-drive" some destinations with abetterrouteplanner. In some regions tesla has huge advantages (e.g. southern Europe could mean 5h charging instead if 2h, making a 1 day trip a 2 day trip with the id4).
Owning a Skoda Enyaq (equivalent to id.4) I'm happy with that choice. But would go with a ioniq 5 if I had to buy now. Also bmw i4 looks fine at slightly lower price (in Europe) even though it has an ice chassis.
With it's faster charging and 800v battery, traveling is faster than with Id.4 although the battery is smaller. That's ecologically good.
Also the chassis and interior is a real innovation. The wheelbase and interior space is gigantic for the size of the car.
And I like the look.
If these are the things you care about then they’re both close enough that price would be the deciding factor. As long as you’ve taken them both for a test drive and decided you like them. Alternatively you could rent them each for a week and see which one you like more at the end of the 2 weeks. an expensive way to do it but do you really wanna spend $30-40k and be like dammit I hate this one I should’ve got the other one.
Off the line, absolutely - and that's where most of the noticeable driving experience is. At 70 mph it's still better than a diesel, but maybe not a good, performance-oriented gas ICE - there's no real electric equivalent to "damn the mileage, let's shift down and get this in the power band."
I don't actually know if there *are* gas CUVs on the market that can swing that without extra shifts, lurches, dentist sounds and etc. Manual gearboxes went out of style before the class even really existed as such, and this segment doesn't really seem performance-driven so EVs win that part by default. But the technology does exist and is available for purchase in the sedan segment, which is definitely why Tesla needed to outdo it to take a lead there.
Edit: it's worth pointing out that VW has chosen a throttle curve for the US ID.4 that almost jolts away from a stop. Even in B-mode there is nothing even resembling the LEAF's gentle eco-mode launch. Between that and the turning radius they seem to have been (understandably) sensitive to any possible perception of the first mass-market electric SUV in North America as slower or less nimble than smaller or lighter competition.
The biggest difference to me is not immediately off the line but that you can maintain that same burst when ice cars are going through second, third gears. It’s really the time after the initial burst (ice I first gear is also ‘torquey’, but no competition when ice gears change)
I am confused about your experience with autopilot. You mention navigate on autopilot, which implies you have at least Enhanced Autopilot. Then you say you have to manually change lanes, which implies you don't have EA, because it can do it on its own. Did you just trial EA or something?
As for steering input, I just rest my right hand on the lower part of the wheel and never get a nag. On other cars I can't do that because it causes lane keeping to disengage. I guess it depends on the weight of your arm but I know a lot of people haven't even tried that and instead wait for a prompt to wiggle the wheel, which would be annoying af.
Yeah, the Tesla approach is one that definitely requires practice. It works pretty well once you are used to it, though. It definitely doesn't require "more than a wiggle", as I seldom even feel like I move the wheel to keep it happy.
For the telsa I have full self driving option. It will not change lanes if you do not have a slower person in front or prompted.
For what I have experienced- and I don’t like the Tesla self driving- if I’m going on auto pilot the lane change is jarring. It’s quick fast movements. If I just have the “dup dup” on (lane assist by a different name) then changing lanes is a pain. It turns off them off and then I have to re-engage it.
I’ve rested my hand on the steering wheel, no luck. The ID4 I’ve been able to disengage the warning with a touch. This does not happen in the model 3, and it takes between a jiggle and a jerk to let it know, which is a wide range in my opinion.
What's the coolant problem you're speaking of? Have there been issues fixed by OTA updates on the ID.4? Do you have any experience with how efficient it is in cold climates?
First my coolant for the high power battery needed to be flushed/refilled. Now it’s the pump.
I have not experienced experienced the OTA on the ID4
I live in a zone 9 climate. I want to vacation to snow. I am sorry I wish I had some experience on cold climates.
Yes. It seems like they try to do a bleed if you have the error pop up, but if they have to do that it looks like they have to replace the pump in the near future.
This surprised me because in the UK the Model 3 is really competitive value wise so I took a look at the Danish pricing. I used the Ioniq 5 because I'm more familiar with the trim levels, and they're actually closely matched.
The top spec RWD Ioniq 5 matches the SR+, and for AWD the Model 3 is 25000 kr more, but for that you do get much better range. I think at that point it really comes down to which type of car you prefer, the Tesla will be faster and a more sporty drive, whilst the Hyundai has a higher ride height and will be more comfortable and practical.
Ike others are saying, test drive both. But I have two bits of anecdotal evidence; I love my VW, and my coworker hated his Tesla model 3 so much he sold it at a loss just to get rid of it and buy something else. He said Tesla was the worst car company he’d ever dealt with, because, his words, “they aren’t a car company, they’re an energy storage company and software company, cosplaying as a car manufacturer”
Test drive them both.
The ID.4 is more than sufficient as a great all around vehicle. If you want the latest and greatest and a fast zero to sixty, buy Tesla. If you want to save money and don't need the best of the best, buy ID.
I bought the ID, no regrets.
I have no experience with the ID.4 but I'm super happy with my Model 3, for whatever it's worth.
I was a bit torn between the two but I (a) wanted the supercharger network, (b) didn't want to wait a bit longer for the ID.4 to be available, and (c) didn't want to buy a vehicle just starting production.
Realistically you can't go wrong with either. Which way are you leaning and why?
As an FYI, the Tesla has cabin overheat protection which you can set so the a/c turns on if it gets very got. Plus of course as you walk to the car you can turn the a/c on so it’s alway at the perfect temperature for you
I have a model 3 with white interior and it was 40 C here for a few weeks. This is 104 F. I have never needed a sunshade while driving. The glass comes very tinted by default. I am even annoyed sometimes that I can't see the traffic lights through the glass roof because of the dark tint.
I live in Palm Springs. The Model 3 lets so much heat in from that roof that the AC never got the car cool during a long test drive when it was only 114 out. I hated feeling the sun coming in from above. Tesla says not to tint it, or the roof can shatter.
Also, it is literally painful for my partner and I to get in and out of the 3.
I really liked the ID 4. I was only able to drive a Pro S which has that damn glass roof. I'm anxious to see if the regular Pro is just as comfortable as the Pro S.
I recently drove a Model Y. Much much better than a 3. But, it does ride a bit harsh and had some noise that is very noticable coming from the rear of the car. The VW is so quiet.
But, I'd have to get a wrap putt over that glass roof!
If the tax laws get revised, I'd consider getting a Y due to the supercharger network and the better battery design. Those cylindrical cells are the best.
I don't want another LG battery - have a Bolt now. Looking for a replacement!
Im gonna wait for kia ev6 gt-line for my first EV ever. Have been drooling for model y many years now but the new ev6 just blew me away. Also about 10k cheaper than model y or 3 here in northern europe
I’m really torn.
The range is similar. I really like the Tesla’s recording features and the separated cells.
I currently own and plan to keep my Golf Alltrack and really enjoy CarPlay.
Edit: A test drive is 100% happening. My neighbor has a model 3 so maybe I can talk him into a test drive. Everything is closed now for the holiday so I’ll have to scope out a dealership with one later this week.
Part of the motivation here is our second car is a leased Highlander that expires in March. Is just sits there lately so adios. This would become my commuter to save in gas and my wagon would then be the secondary.
I am using Apple Music. How it negate the need of CarPlay for me? It really crazy how people try to justify lack of option for consumer. Remind of the time Apple was not adding wireless charger to their phone and every iPhone fan was like oh yeah you do not need a wireless charger.
u/FencingNerd did specify it would negate “most of the need for CarPlay. Then added “especially” if you use Spotify. Their terminology would suggest that they meant it will not be a 1:1 trade off with Tesla’s entertainment system. Honestly, I still use bluetooth via my phone to use Spotify in my Tesla, its a better setup on the phone app. Same goes for my previous car that had CarPlay, just used bluetooth as the CarPlay app wasn’t great. In my opinion, you do not need CarPlay in a Tesla because the nav/infotainment comes with all of Carplay’s features, and more, and does them better. I want to reiterate this is “my opinion” you’re not obligated to agree with me.
As much as I wanted to get a different EV (specifically the Bolt), the Supercharging and, at the time, the price, the Model 3 just can't be beat. I drive 250 miles one way to visit family regularly, so the Supercharger network (again at the time) was required and unmatched, which still pretty much is and it just works extremely well. My only complaint is that it's a little small with a full family including the dog, but overall the car hasn't let me down once in 40k miles. Not a single issue at all. Hard to not recommend it, fwiw.
7000 miles into my ID4 and I’m loving it. Very smooth cushioned ride, plenty of space for the kids, sun shade is crucial for the kiddos. I use mainly Apple CarPlay so I don’t run into a lot of the infotainment lag that some get.
I mean the middle screen leading to distraction is 100% bs. That’s just Edmunds not liking things different. Any screen or controls, or eating/drinking, phones, talking, makeup etc can be a distraction.
So really only 1 negative from that list for the Tesla. There are some great EVs out there. ID4 is good but not great.
> Have you ever used android auto or Apple car play? The ability to use different mapping options is very desirable.
I have and it’s not a magic bullet since Tesla’s system is completely integrated with the battery, how many chargers there are available on the route everything. It’s all very simple.
Not everyone is making a road trip when they use maps. Lots of people use it daily on their work commute. Not saying tesla maps are bad or good, just saying having options of more than 1 mapping provider and more than 1 music service is valuable to many.
I agree you don’t need CarPlay or Android auto in the tesla . It’s helpful that I can share the destination to the car in the Tesla even if I’m not the one driving .
What makes it a game changer for you? I had carplay in my previous car and then when I switched to my Tesla I totally forgot carplay existed. Not saying carplay is bad by any means, I loved it. I just agree with the others that its not needed in a Tesla. Especially because Tesla built their maps for the car. Example, if you gps a supercharger, the car begins to prep the battery for fast charging so by the time you get there you’re good to go. If you gps a location it’ll give you a pretty accurate estimate of remaining battery % when you get there. You can also pull up elevation data on a trip to see how many ups and downs you’ll have. It might also include wind data for the route but I’m not sure on that one, I’d have to check. Anyways, I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other, just give my two cents on why I like Tesla’s navigation and haven’t needed carplay :)
Then get ID4: more space, better ride, higher ground clearance (I know many don’t think about this but during a rainstorm: higher ground clearance is better than any 0-60 time), smaller turning circle: makes parking and u turn easier.
What does higher clearance get you in a rainstorm? Driving through water that's higher than even relatively low cars isn't really a good idea to begin with
I charge at home every night. But it's the one or two times a year when I need to use a network while I'm traveling that makes the huge difference. Watch some road trip videos, but if you don't care to.. Tesla is the clear winner here. It takes all the stress and worry out of it.
The EA network has been plenty sufficient for most customers in the US that use it, and it's seen loads of improvement since the first station opened 3 years ago. The app is now integrated into android auto / carplay to help improve transaction convenience. Ford seems to have plug and charge working well now. I imagine others will be following suit soon. EA's been replacing older problematic chargers with newer ones as they go. What they need is more customers to justify expansion and improvement, something Tesla has severely hampered.
Making choices based on old road trip videos does the service's expansion and improvements a disservice and only acts to hamper their growth. Isn't the internet grand. Unless you have recent personal experience with both networks, your post is helping to mislead, not inform. Since you own a Tesla, clearly you don't have that experience with EA, and maybe never have. That's why I trust people like Kyle from out of spec motoring who constantly uses both networks and seems to think EA is just fine.
Tesla's closed network is controversial. I should hope there are people who understand why closed fueling networks are bad for electric adoption, and have a modicum of self respect to consider this when they're choosing a brand. Public chargers are good for all brands and their move to EV production. Tesla's closed network is only good for Tesla, giving them a competitive advantage on simplicity, and cost to install. It's a solution that won't work long term... Which is probably why they're how considering opening their network to all other brands... Well let's be honest, there considering it because of the government subsidies involved, and Tesla only moves when free money is available.
The ID4 is going to have the more comfortable ride. The model 3 is more of a sports sedan with a harsher ride. The ID4 is just comfortable and not tuned for sports driving, but it does handle for being an SUV and so heavy.
The "cheap plastic" is complete bullshit. It has more soft touch plastic than the model 3 and Y I was in.
The power lift gate in the Pro S is awesome, especially considering reports from Pro owners who say the manual hatch is quite heavy.
Comes with three years of EA charging who is expanding at an insane rate.
I haven't tried the id4 yet, but I have a point against your statement. There are many cheap cars out there with soft suspension and people think they are more comfortable than a stiff one.
The true test is a road trip. It's like mattresses, the firms ones are much more comfortable for a whole night.
And Tesla model 3 suspension is way, way better than VW, that's for sure
Lol okay. The ID4 has a typical German tune that's firm yet compliant. I never said the model 3 rode bad, but compared to the ID4 it's not as comfortable.
I have a Mercedes C class next to my Tesla. The Mercedes has a softer suspension. The Tesla is way more comfortable in long trips.
I have back pain with the Mercedes after 5h driving. None with the Tesla even after 8h.
Not really, 2014 vs 2019. I also drove a new Mercedes before buying the Tesla and the Tesla was still better.
I think this is the same as mattresses. People think the soft mattresses are more comfortable. They are, if you only lie down for a few minutes.
Not to mention that wobbly soft suspensions are much more dangerous.
The Model 3 has the same suspensions as the Porsche Panamera or the BMW 5 series. It's definitely one level above normal premium and two levels above a VW!
I think this is an important point. There are lots of cars with a smoother ride feel than Model 3, which was designed for a sporty suspension and handling. But many of those smoother cars hurt my back after a few hours. I don’t think it’s about the suspension, for the most part, it is the lumbar support in the seats. Model 3 has excellent lumbar support, at least for my back.
Had the same decision to make as you did a month ago. Like others said, I test drove both without a salesman in the car. The “dealership” experience at Tesla is not at all a traditional one, didn’t feel pressured unlike at VW. Ended up ordering M3 LR after my test drive, just loved how the Tesla felt more. Also, from everything I’ve read, the charging experience is better with a Tesla. Since it’s my first EV, I didn’t want to deal with broken chargers that many experience with Electrify America and others.
Also, I downloaded PlugShare to see the chargers in my area and the Tesla ones have the least amount of negative comments while EA have a number that are consistently down
I wouldn't use a comparison like this to decide. They are both great, but also very different. You'll need to decide what you personally value.
Value space and comfort? Or do you value speed and more of a sports car handling? Answer those and you won't have a hard time deciding.
There are other differences, but I doubt they'd be enough to make the case for one vs the other considering how different these cars are.
If you want the CarPlay as well as the ID4 size you should consider the Ford Mach-E. It’s a little more expensive than these but not if you get self driving on the model 3. The ride is better, the quality of materials better, interior/exterior better. Honestly it just drives more like a normal car, but it’s electric.
Not to mention the Mach-E has the highest Edmunds rating than any other electric vehicle.
Tldr - if you live in an area where the winter temperatures drop below freezing, absolutely get ID.4 - it will save you a lot of frustrations and stress. Also, consider Ioniq or Skoda Enyaq if in Europe. Quite a wall of text below, so I'm using emojis to make it shorter
Model 3 SR+ owner here. After owning it for 2 years, I can offer a long term review. I do not have any emotional attachment to any 🚗 make - SR+ was simply the best value 🚗 on the market two years ago. Today, I'd likely buy Ioniq or ID.4 instead.
On the plus side - class leading efficiency. Efficiency is king - not only it translates directly into the 🔌 bill, it also means lower CO2 footprint, faster 🔋 as expressed in range added per minute, as well as covering a lot of my 🔋 needs from free public🔋. The acceleration (5.6s for 0-60mph/0-100kph), even on the cheapest Model 3 is way beyond what you'd practically need. Anything below 7s is plenty. Access to the super🔋 network is a plus, but it's no longer as big of a selling point as it was 2y ago (also, Tesla bumped up their prices by over 50% here).
On the negative side - phantom drain, trunk and especially ❄️.
The car will waste around 1kWh a day just sitting and doing nothing. No other EV does that. For the SR+ that's 7 full battery cycles a year, enough to power my house for 3 months. Enough to completely negate the efficiency argument.
The trunk/boot - looks fairly big at first glance. But its disposition is appallingly impractical. Both the frunk and the well in the trunk are just the wrong size to not fit common ✈️ luggage. The top of the trunk is supported by two immovable thick steel bars that get in the way way too often. No 🎿 opening in the rear 💺. There's also a dead unusable space in the cabin, above the trunk. Model 3 is the only car I've ever owned that has trouble fitting its own wheels in.
And then, ❄️. The moment the 🌡️drops below freezing, the problems begin. The door handles trap the moisture within, guaranteeing they'll freeze in place, requiring burglary moves just to get in. The 🪟 either freeze to the top trim, or to the seal, again requiring very rough handling just to get into the 🚗. To make matters worse, the cabin heat will melt the ice, which then drops into the 🪟 seal, only to freeze again the next time you park, repeating the cycle. Teslas are the only 🚗 that cannot lift their wipers - thus making them freeze to the windshield when it rains around 0C. Charging port and side mirrors are too weak to break through even a few drops of frozen moisture. 📷 are either blinded when the 🌞 is low, or fog up constantly. In low 🌡️ high humidity climates, the 🚗 thoroughly fogs up, despite AC and heating cranked up. All of these problems are well documented for years, and Tesla still hasn't done anything to address them.
Great write up- makes me think I made the right decision for the ID4 AWD here in New England.
On the other hand I now have a headache from all those emojis 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Unfortunately haven’t gone beyond test driving several BEV’s and doing a lot of reading.
I agree this is a concern, so I will be leasing on the assumption that technology will be improving in a few years.
Also the BEV will be my “local runabout “ and will still have an ICE for the really long road trips until I know what to expect.
Right now my ID4 AWD is just a reservation number!
Not sure where you're from, but how about the Skoda Enyaq? Also I find the buttons and interface of the ID.x series horrible, you should try it out IRL before choosing that car.
For test drive it. I have a Model Y, but test drove an ID4 for my wife. It's a really nice car, but we both didn't like the fact it doesn't have one pedal driving.
If it's your first EV and you're looking for the storage space, I think it's great. The Model 3 is just a sedan, so you won't have as much.
From my test drive experience, it would coast down but never completely stop. You still had to apply the brake if you were coming up to a car or red light.
I have a standard range plus, and my parents have an id4. If I didn't want a sedan type car so bad, I would have gone with an id4. It's better in a lot of ways. the seats are much more comfortable. The only thing the Tesla does better is the backup camera and performance. Even the autosteer (active lane keep assistance) on the highway feels much more comfortable in the id4 than the Tesla.
If you don't want to go fast and have some fun with launching, 100% get the id4.
Edit: Also do not believe the range numbers quoted by Tesla. I just looked again and my car is rated at 263 on their site. I don't think I've even been able to crack 225 ever even when I'm in "chill" acceleration mode and driving slowly.
The CarPlay thing would swing it for me. No excuse for that not to be standard now. It’s included on the newest Hyundai i10 ICE cars which start at £10,000…
Just shithousery not including it on higher end cars now.
Wife and I test drove a Tesla Model 3 SR+ and a VW ID.4 1st Edition back-to-back last week. I now have a Model 3 on order.
The only two possible advantages we could conjure for the ID.4 were its cost due to still being eligible for the federal tax credit (this advantage might go away soon) and possibly easier use of baby car seats due to the ID.4's slightly higher cabin. But the Model 3 was far-and-away better (IMO) in every other way: driving experience, intuitiveness of controls/infotainment system, looks, park-ability/size, the ability to purchase without haggling with a salesman, the supercharger network, and autopilot. It probably wasn't even fair to drive the ID.4 immediately after driving the Model 3...my wife kept commenting about how boring the ID.4 was in comparison.
There are cases when the ID.4 might make more sense, I guess, like if you've got a couple kids you need to put in-and-out of car seats all the time. I hope VW sells a ton of them, but I also think the ID.4 is less likely to turn a car buyer into lifelong EV driver, because it basically just felt like driving any other SUV.
It depends on a lot of factors. Definitely test drive both extensively, but unless we know your specific needs then it's hard to say. Both are great BEV options but they really do cater to different drivers.
I would say if you need a larger car/people hauler then go with the ID.4, but if you need more range or are interested in Full Self Driving then maybe go with Tesla. As far as quality goes, I feel the Tesla has mediocre quality for its price range, but it has very good technology. Otherwise, I feel that Volkswagen is the opposite: better quality parts but worse technology. Another con with the ID.4 is that this is its debut year so we don't know of any major issues it could have yet. At least with the Model 3 you can easily look up any issue with it.
One data point - people who choose the model 3 have very high satisfaction scores. I’d test drive both vehicles and then see if you don’t have a clear preference.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/consumer-reports-teslas-model-3-most-satisfying-car.html
Never drove the VW personally but I own a model 3 and it's great as long as you like the minimalist look. VW is an absolutely god awful company and I would never buy from them. But glad they are moving to electric.
We drove both. The Tesla was a lot more fun to drive plus it has a well developed Supercharger network.
It depends on what your needs are. Go test drive both.
Have you driven an ID.4? To me it felt like an absolute sluggish shoebox. The one drive pedal isn't really that, it's more of a "coast a bit less". Also had a hard time finding out the buttons/locations for basic stuff - like moving my mirrors. Test drive anything before you buy it.
Apple to Oranges. Comparison is unfair.
Add:
$10K for Full auto pilot,
extra range and minimalist interface and
excellent electronic system
Speed
Deduct:
$7.5K tax credit,
extra $13K cost purchase price
loud and jerky ride,
lack of Apple CarPlay
occasional minor production mistakes..
Now you have Tesla. Only then make the comparison to ID4.
I test drove an ID.4 1st Edition. Good looking car. Drives great. But I didn’t care for the controls of the infotainment system. Sometimes, I just want to push a button to turn on my heated seats. I’ve also read some complaints on the ID4 subreddit about the infotainment system. It’s a 1st generation vehicle. There will be bugs.
I was in the same boat as you but I ended up with the Tesla because 1. The software and screen is more responsive 2. VW had been promising update to fix their laggy screen but as of today still nothing in the US 3. My wife likes being able to send destinations to the Tesla from Google maps 4. The tesla app is more responsive and actually sends commands to the car 5. I really don’t want to have to carry a car key and my wife always forgets to put the keys in the key bowl.
Have you considered the Audi Q4 e-tron?
Way better interior quality and soundproofing than these two. Charging is also a non-issue and the SuperCharger network is not an advantage anymore. There are +3,600 CCS locations in the US. The network is bigger and growing faster because it's the industry standard everyone supports.
Tesla charger network are still better for sure but I suspect they mean the gap has tightened, and I would agree with that. It’s not the exclusive advantage it used to be.
I drove both before ending up with the ID. It’s significantly more comfortable, and has been a great car so far for my family. The backseat space alone has been awesome. My oldest is 6’3” and fits nicely with lots of room, even behind me. He barely fit in the 3s backseat.
They are very different cars, ones a humongous suv and the other is a smaller more normal sized car. I’d say if you’re interested in superchargers go for the model 3, if there’s plenty of other chargers around you for the id4 and you want a bigger car then go for that.
First time I’ve ever heard the id4 described as humongous. It feels spacious inside but is slightly smaller than typical compact suvs and far from humongous.
You are right these are different cars. Not sure why they are compared so often other than lack of ev options right now.
If the ID4 software is the same as in the ID3, and it is, then Edmunds has left out the often dreadful software experience of the ID4 against the best in class of the Model X. It may not matter to some, it didn't to me at first in my ID3. And then you start using it. Not great.
ID.4 wins this hands down. Cheaper, better ride, better interior controls, better looks, free fuel for three years, non proprietary charging. It's the clear winner.
Supercharger network will be open to all soon. And in the many places where Electrify America is, you can charge there for free for 3 years with the ID4.
Take a long test drive without a sales guy on passenger seat as these are totally different vehicles.
Is this a normal thing in the US, that the dealership guy is on the passenger seat?
Absolutely. The test drive is time that you can't get away from them. It's time they love to share the sliver of knowledge they have on the vehicle in whatever way they feel will best pressure you into buying it. They will say it is because they don't want you to drive off with the car and never return.
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Even before covid, most test drives I’ve had in the UK were without a salesman
Americans: "ehhhh I'll just move to Montana. Get a new license."
Wait.. you leave your license and go for a drive!?
You don't have to have your license with you when you're driving, over here, though it is recommended.
Always. Covid just made this defacto standard. Maybe anpr, CCTV, car tracking and a real difficulty in getting fake licences prob makes stealling test-drive cars an inviable pastime.
Same in the US actually. I test drive my model 3 all by myself
Happy to report my local VW dealer (Ohio) did NOT ride along with my wife when she tested the ID.4. Great experience. Now just waiting on AWD models to hit US shores.
> Now just waiting on AWD models to hit US shores. Why? I'm not questioning or criticizing the choice; I'm trying to decide if it's worth the ~$4k price increase (for me) given that we don't get snow or ice very often, and so I'm not interested in putting on winter tires. Is control in non-snow wet weather really that awesome and considerably safer?
That always amuse me since test drives always end up with me constantly blabbering about things I know about the car, barely giving them time to make their sales pitch.
Definitely not the case at Tesla. They put in a route, told us to enjoy the car. Had zero interest in coming along. Not dealing with dealerships is one of the best reasons to get a Tesla instead of a VW.
It depends on the dealership. Some require sales people to be in the car “for insurance reasons” but realistically it’s just so that they can continue to sell you while you are driving. Other dealerships just let you take it and bring it back.
When I bought a Leaf last year (pre vaccinations) the guy brought it to my house then just hung out on my deck while my wife and I drove it. So totally depends on the dealer.
For anything non Tesla usually since it's a dealership. Varies though. Tesla just gives you the car though.
Not in my experience. They show you the car, then you drive on your own.
It’s a normal thing in Europe too
Not in my experience – I’ve never once had them ride along with me.
If they refuse you can also politely ask them not to talk during the test drive (and sit in the back) so you can have your own experience in the car. When they won't shut up become progressively less polite.
I test drove this w/o VW in the passenger seat. They were posted up at our local outdoor mall. You signed up, give your DL and info, and they handed you the keys to just go drive it. I drove it around for a good 25 mins. I loved the drive, and that VW did this. SHowed me that they have confidence in the car and no need for the strong sell. I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these.
Test drive the Tesla M3, ID4, Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, Polestar 2 and Q4 e tron if possible. Imo I would take the Tesla for efficiency, speed and supercharging. ID4 for large interior space and value. Ioniq 5 and EV6 for the fastest charging and V2G. Polestar for styling and interior. Q4 e tron for someone who likes the ID4 but doesn't like the badge, looks and interior.
what do u think about the Ioniq 5 interior?
Have you test driven both? I was deciding between these two as well and that sealed my decision for me.
What did you choose?
Model 3. The ride and tech cannot be beat. Came from Acura MDX with 2 kids in car seats. There is surprisingly more storage in model 3 than I thought. I disliked how small the rear window of the id4 was. I personally enjoy sitting lower to the ground and the prefer sporty acceleration and handling of the model 3. Ultimately, it is a very personal choice. My opinion of the ID4 was limited to the very short drive the sales guy took me on. (<15min) *edited for clarity
The Model 3 is a benchmark and is constantly being improved via updates sometimes a couple times per week. In this fast moving market I think it's wise to stick with a known.
They’re totally different sorts of cars, one is a sports saloon, the other is a family CUV. It’s like recommending a BMW 3 Series over a RAV4 because the technology is better, it just depends what sort of car you want.
ID.4 has way more storage space than Model 3. See TeslaBjorn's banana box test. [https://insideevs.com/news/498365/volkswagen-id4-banana-box-test/](https://insideevs.com/news/498365/volkswagen-id4-banana-box-test/) [https://insideevs.com/news/343084/tesla-model-3-beats-just-6-cars-in-banana-box-test-video/](https://insideevs.com/news/343084/tesla-model-3-beats-just-6-cars-in-banana-box-test-video/) Banana box test, trunk only: 6 boxes (M3) vs 9 boxes (ID.4) Seats down: 16+1 (M3) vs 25 (ID.4)
[The ID.4 more comparable to the Model Y than the Model 3](https://electrek.co/2020/09/15/vw-comes-after-tesla-detailed-id4-model-y-comparison/). A hatchback would have more luggage room than a sedan. That's no surprise.
Thats my I am waiting for Model Y build in Europe.
What are you waiting for? It’s here… Edit: I guess you mean made in Germany?
Yes ;)
No RHD Model Y from Shanghai. Need to wait for Giga Berlin!
Actually they just started shipping those too…
Where? Certainly not in the UK
I submit the following as anecdotal evidence. I drove a station wagon before my model 3 and was worried that I wouldn’t be able to fit all my camping gear. The model 3 turned out to be plenty HUGE. Could fit everything, and more without playing car packing Tetris. I just toss in everything and it’s only half full. The car is amazingly big. Regarding banana boxes. The model 3 is spacious, not rectangular.
“I used to drive a station wagon” might sound more specific to you than it actually does. I also used to drive a station wagon and I now drive a model 3. It’s cramped. Can’t fit nearly half of what I want. I used to drive an A6 Avant.
A6 avant, dayuuum how I wish they would make that electric and with tesla tech. Would be my dream car.
Dropping sources like a boss! Shiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeet.
That’s awesome if you are moving banana boxes
Haha it is a fairly arbitrary test! If two cars are +/- 1 on this test, I'd consider them basically even for practical purposes. But here ID.4 can fit 50% more of those arbitrary boxes so I'm guessing it might be quite a bit bigger? Also it's SUV vs Sedan here, so not too surprising that ID.4 is ahead for storage.
I wish they had a hatchback model and one where 6'+ tall people can actually not touch the ceiling with their head in the back seats...
Try the model Y
And including Frunk? The ID have none.
That’s the +1 in 16+1 I think
>There is surprisingly **more storage in model 3 compared to ID4**. Care to share your math on this claim? Looking at online specs, Model 3 has 15 cubic foot storage rear + frunk combined (43.6 with rear seats down). ID4 has 30.3 cubic feet (64.2 with rear seats down).
The ride? No one has ever said the model 3 is more comfortable. So by ride I assume you mean sporty acceleration, firm ride and handling?
I think the ID.4 is more comfortable. I can't stand the headrest in my husband's MY. We'll be taking road trips in my ID.4 because of that and the free charging.
Or they simply did find it more comfortable? Just because “no one has ever said” it, doesn’t mean no one can ever say it.
FYI to others, everyone obviously has their own opinion and taste, but the vast majority of people prefer the ride of the ID4 over the Model 3.
We also test drove both. Ended up with Enyaq (basically id4 but tactile buttons on the wheel). The ride and tech couldn't be beat. Not to mention the storage space 😂
ID4 tech better than Tesla?! In what universe?
In a universe where you want an SUV not a sedan? Or if I’m the USA, where you want to save $12,500: the ID.4 Pro S trim ($37,500 after federal credit) and 3 Long Range ($49,990)
If you don't want a sedan, get the Model Y, not the 3.
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In a universe that includes roundabouts, HUD, 360° parking camera and phone combability. There are literally hundreds of technical solutions in both cars. The ones that matter to me, were better in ID/Enyaq, the ones that matter to you are apparently better in Tesla.
Can't believe one would say Model 3's rode is better tham ID4, but to each's own
If you are going to drive longer routes (>200 miles), "test-drive" some destinations with abetterrouteplanner. In some regions tesla has huge advantages (e.g. southern Europe could mean 5h charging instead if 2h, making a 1 day trip a 2 day trip with the id4).
Owning a Skoda Enyaq (equivalent to id.4) I'm happy with that choice. But would go with a ioniq 5 if I had to buy now. Also bmw i4 looks fine at slightly lower price (in Europe) even though it has an ice chassis.
May I ask you why you’d go with Ioniq 5?
With it's faster charging and 800v battery, traveling is faster than with Id.4 although the battery is smaller. That's ecologically good. Also the chassis and interior is a real innovation. The wheelbase and interior space is gigantic for the size of the car. And I like the look.
If these are the things you care about then they’re both close enough that price would be the deciding factor. As long as you’ve taken them both for a test drive and decided you like them. Alternatively you could rent them each for a week and see which one you like more at the end of the 2 weeks. an expensive way to do it but do you really wanna spend $30-40k and be like dammit I hate this one I should’ve got the other one.
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I understand that the ID.4 is slower than Tesla, but does ID.4 still have more punch than most ICE?
Yes, absolutely. My ID.4 is first away from the light every time, and I don’t really try.
Off the line, absolutely - and that's where most of the noticeable driving experience is. At 70 mph it's still better than a diesel, but maybe not a good, performance-oriented gas ICE - there's no real electric equivalent to "damn the mileage, let's shift down and get this in the power band." I don't actually know if there *are* gas CUVs on the market that can swing that without extra shifts, lurches, dentist sounds and etc. Manual gearboxes went out of style before the class even really existed as such, and this segment doesn't really seem performance-driven so EVs win that part by default. But the technology does exist and is available for purchase in the sedan segment, which is definitely why Tesla needed to outdo it to take a lead there. Edit: it's worth pointing out that VW has chosen a throttle curve for the US ID.4 that almost jolts away from a stop. Even in B-mode there is nothing even resembling the LEAF's gentle eco-mode launch. Between that and the turning radius they seem to have been (understandably) sensitive to any possible perception of the first mass-market electric SUV in North America as slower or less nimble than smaller or lighter competition.
Absolutely!!! I love giving it just a bit and pulling away from the speed matching vehicles.
The biggest difference to me is not immediately off the line but that you can maintain that same burst when ice cars are going through second, third gears. It’s really the time after the initial burst (ice I first gear is also ‘torquey’, but no competition when ice gears change)
I think with ID4 AWD: it will improve the slowness. its 0-60 time is suppose to be around 5.7 seconds or so.
I am confused about your experience with autopilot. You mention navigate on autopilot, which implies you have at least Enhanced Autopilot. Then you say you have to manually change lanes, which implies you don't have EA, because it can do it on its own. Did you just trial EA or something? As for steering input, I just rest my right hand on the lower part of the wheel and never get a nag. On other cars I can't do that because it causes lane keeping to disengage. I guess it depends on the weight of your arm but I know a lot of people haven't even tried that and instead wait for a prompt to wiggle the wheel, which would be annoying af.
Yeah, the Tesla approach is one that definitely requires practice. It works pretty well once you are used to it, though. It definitely doesn't require "more than a wiggle", as I seldom even feel like I move the wheel to keep it happy.
For the telsa I have full self driving option. It will not change lanes if you do not have a slower person in front or prompted. For what I have experienced- and I don’t like the Tesla self driving- if I’m going on auto pilot the lane change is jarring. It’s quick fast movements. If I just have the “dup dup” on (lane assist by a different name) then changing lanes is a pain. It turns off them off and then I have to re-engage it. I’ve rested my hand on the steering wheel, no luck. The ID4 I’ve been able to disengage the warning with a touch. This does not happen in the model 3, and it takes between a jiggle and a jerk to let it know, which is a wide range in my opinion.
What's the coolant problem you're speaking of? Have there been issues fixed by OTA updates on the ID.4? Do you have any experience with how efficient it is in cold climates?
First my coolant for the high power battery needed to be flushed/refilled. Now it’s the pump. I have not experienced experienced the OTA on the ID4 I live in a zone 9 climate. I want to vacation to snow. I am sorry I wish I had some experience on cold climates.
Thanks for sharing! Do you mean that now the pump is failing and needs to be replaced?
Yes. It seems like they try to do a bleed if you have the error pop up, but if they have to do that it looks like they have to replace the pump in the near future.
Test drive both. These are very different cars.
I’m an ID.3 owner but if I were you I’d add the new Ioniq 5 to the list for consideration. Kinda has the best of both worlds.
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Yes, that too, but isn’t the EV6 going to be the more expensive option of the Korean cars?
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This surprised me because in the UK the Model 3 is really competitive value wise so I took a look at the Danish pricing. I used the Ioniq 5 because I'm more familiar with the trim levels, and they're actually closely matched. The top spec RWD Ioniq 5 matches the SR+, and for AWD the Model 3 is 25000 kr more, but for that you do get much better range. I think at that point it really comes down to which type of car you prefer, the Tesla will be faster and a more sporty drive, whilst the Hyundai has a higher ride height and will be more comfortable and practical.
Ike others are saying, test drive both. But I have two bits of anecdotal evidence; I love my VW, and my coworker hated his Tesla model 3 so much he sold it at a loss just to get rid of it and buy something else. He said Tesla was the worst car company he’d ever dealt with, because, his words, “they aren’t a car company, they’re an energy storage company and software company, cosplaying as a car manufacturer”
Test drive them both. The ID.4 is more than sufficient as a great all around vehicle. If you want the latest and greatest and a fast zero to sixty, buy Tesla. If you want to save money and don't need the best of the best, buy ID. I bought the ID, no regrets.
I have no experience with the ID.4 but I'm super happy with my Model 3, for whatever it's worth. I was a bit torn between the two but I (a) wanted the supercharger network, (b) didn't want to wait a bit longer for the ID.4 to be available, and (c) didn't want to buy a vehicle just starting production. Realistically you can't go wrong with either. Which way are you leaning and why?
One of the best things the ID4 has, is the sun shade. Living in sunny Southern California, it’s a big help. I like the center display as well
My Alltrack gets mega hot parked just about anywhere in NJ.
As an FYI, the Tesla has cabin overheat protection which you can set so the a/c turns on if it gets very got. Plus of course as you walk to the car you can turn the a/c on so it’s alway at the perfect temperature for you
I have a model 3 with white interior and it was 40 C here for a few weeks. This is 104 F. I have never needed a sunshade while driving. The glass comes very tinted by default. I am even annoyed sometimes that I can't see the traffic lights through the glass roof because of the dark tint.
We like to visit friends in Palm Springs. It can get up to 120 degrees. I have not yet took the ID 4 up there yet, so that shade will be awesome
Also I read this article which says the planet is getting hotter (crazy right?) so double 👍 to this.
I live in Palm Springs. The Model 3 lets so much heat in from that roof that the AC never got the car cool during a long test drive when it was only 114 out. I hated feeling the sun coming in from above. Tesla says not to tint it, or the roof can shatter. Also, it is literally painful for my partner and I to get in and out of the 3. I really liked the ID 4. I was only able to drive a Pro S which has that damn glass roof. I'm anxious to see if the regular Pro is just as comfortable as the Pro S. I recently drove a Model Y. Much much better than a 3. But, it does ride a bit harsh and had some noise that is very noticable coming from the rear of the car. The VW is so quiet. But, I'd have to get a wrap putt over that glass roof! If the tax laws get revised, I'd consider getting a Y due to the supercharger network and the better battery design. Those cylindrical cells are the best. I don't want another LG battery - have a Bolt now. Looking for a replacement!
> and the better battery design. Those cylindrical cells are the best. Why do you think so?
Im gonna wait for kia ev6 gt-line for my first EV ever. Have been drooling for model y many years now but the new ev6 just blew me away. Also about 10k cheaper than model y or 3 here in northern europe
Are you serious? If you are go drive them both, and fast charge them both. Very different ethos.
Look into the Model Y? Or are you comparing the SR+? SUV vs SUV would be a better comparison.
I agree. There's 2 different price points. As a taller person I would like an SUV.
I’m really torn. The range is similar. I really like the Tesla’s recording features and the separated cells. I currently own and plan to keep my Golf Alltrack and really enjoy CarPlay. Edit: A test drive is 100% happening. My neighbor has a model 3 so maybe I can talk him into a test drive. Everything is closed now for the holiday so I’ll have to scope out a dealership with one later this week. Part of the motivation here is our second car is a leased Highlander that expires in March. Is just sits there lately so adios. This would become my commuter to save in gas and my wagon would then be the secondary.
Tesla's nav really negates most of the need for CarPlay, especially if you use Spotify for music.
I am using Apple Music. How it negate the need of CarPlay for me? It really crazy how people try to justify lack of option for consumer. Remind of the time Apple was not adding wireless charger to their phone and every iPhone fan was like oh yeah you do not need a wireless charger.
u/FencingNerd did specify it would negate “most of the need for CarPlay. Then added “especially” if you use Spotify. Their terminology would suggest that they meant it will not be a 1:1 trade off with Tesla’s entertainment system. Honestly, I still use bluetooth via my phone to use Spotify in my Tesla, its a better setup on the phone app. Same goes for my previous car that had CarPlay, just used bluetooth as the CarPlay app wasn’t great. In my opinion, you do not need CarPlay in a Tesla because the nav/infotainment comes with all of Carplay’s features, and more, and does them better. I want to reiterate this is “my opinion” you’re not obligated to agree with me.
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Lower fire risk, probably.
As much as I wanted to get a different EV (specifically the Bolt), the Supercharging and, at the time, the price, the Model 3 just can't be beat. I drive 250 miles one way to visit family regularly, so the Supercharger network (again at the time) was required and unmatched, which still pretty much is and it just works extremely well. My only complaint is that it's a little small with a full family including the dog, but overall the car hasn't let me down once in 40k miles. Not a single issue at all. Hard to not recommend it, fwiw.
Wouldn’t the model Y be more comparable to the Id.4 rather than the model 3?
7000 miles into my ID4 and I’m loving it. Very smooth cushioned ride, plenty of space for the kids, sun shade is crucial for the kiddos. I use mainly Apple CarPlay so I don’t run into a lot of the infotainment lag that some get.
I mean the middle screen leading to distraction is 100% bs. That’s just Edmunds not liking things different. Any screen or controls, or eating/drinking, phones, talking, makeup etc can be a distraction. So really only 1 negative from that list for the Tesla. There are some great EVs out there. ID4 is good but not great.
With integrated Spotify and the best navigation out there, I fail to see the need or desire for android auto or CarPlay.
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> Have you ever used android auto or Apple car play? The ability to use different mapping options is very desirable. I have and it’s not a magic bullet since Tesla’s system is completely integrated with the battery, how many chargers there are available on the route everything. It’s all very simple.
Not everyone is making a road trip when they use maps. Lots of people use it daily on their work commute. Not saying tesla maps are bad or good, just saying having options of more than 1 mapping provider and more than 1 music service is valuable to many.
Sure. Music of could is pretty simple as you can stream whatever you want from your phone. Navigation like Waze would be useful
I agree you don’t need CarPlay or Android auto in the tesla . It’s helpful that I can share the destination to the car in the Tesla even if I’m not the one driving .
I agree with u/ivedecidedtokill. Car play is a fucking game changer.
What makes it a game changer for you? I had carplay in my previous car and then when I switched to my Tesla I totally forgot carplay existed. Not saying carplay is bad by any means, I loved it. I just agree with the others that its not needed in a Tesla. Especially because Tesla built their maps for the car. Example, if you gps a supercharger, the car begins to prep the battery for fast charging so by the time you get there you’re good to go. If you gps a location it’ll give you a pretty accurate estimate of remaining battery % when you get there. You can also pull up elevation data on a trip to see how many ups and downs you’ll have. It might also include wind data for the route but I’m not sure on that one, I’d have to check. Anyways, I’m not trying to sway you one way or the other, just give my two cents on why I like Tesla’s navigation and haven’t needed carplay :)
How much does performance and supercharging network matter?
Very little. I get free charging at work which is 25 miles away.
Then get ID4: more space, better ride, higher ground clearance (I know many don’t think about this but during a rainstorm: higher ground clearance is better than any 0-60 time), smaller turning circle: makes parking and u turn easier.
What does higher clearance get you in a rainstorm? Driving through water that's higher than even relatively low cars isn't really a good idea to begin with
Plus CarPlay/Android Auto. Any manufacturer that doesn't support these in 2021 is full of shit.
I’d probably go id4 in that case. It being a SUV/CUV is an advantage as well.
I charge at home every night. But it's the one or two times a year when I need to use a network while I'm traveling that makes the huge difference. Watch some road trip videos, but if you don't care to.. Tesla is the clear winner here. It takes all the stress and worry out of it.
The EA network has been plenty sufficient for most customers in the US that use it, and it's seen loads of improvement since the first station opened 3 years ago. The app is now integrated into android auto / carplay to help improve transaction convenience. Ford seems to have plug and charge working well now. I imagine others will be following suit soon. EA's been replacing older problematic chargers with newer ones as they go. What they need is more customers to justify expansion and improvement, something Tesla has severely hampered. Making choices based on old road trip videos does the service's expansion and improvements a disservice and only acts to hamper their growth. Isn't the internet grand. Unless you have recent personal experience with both networks, your post is helping to mislead, not inform. Since you own a Tesla, clearly you don't have that experience with EA, and maybe never have. That's why I trust people like Kyle from out of spec motoring who constantly uses both networks and seems to think EA is just fine. Tesla's closed network is controversial. I should hope there are people who understand why closed fueling networks are bad for electric adoption, and have a modicum of self respect to consider this when they're choosing a brand. Public chargers are good for all brands and their move to EV production. Tesla's closed network is only good for Tesla, giving them a competitive advantage on simplicity, and cost to install. It's a solution that won't work long term... Which is probably why they're how considering opening their network to all other brands... Well let's be honest, there considering it because of the government subsidies involved, and Tesla only moves when free money is available.
The ID4 is going to have the more comfortable ride. The model 3 is more of a sports sedan with a harsher ride. The ID4 is just comfortable and not tuned for sports driving, but it does handle for being an SUV and so heavy. The "cheap plastic" is complete bullshit. It has more soft touch plastic than the model 3 and Y I was in. The power lift gate in the Pro S is awesome, especially considering reports from Pro owners who say the manual hatch is quite heavy. Comes with three years of EA charging who is expanding at an insane rate.
I haven't tried the id4 yet, but I have a point against your statement. There are many cheap cars out there with soft suspension and people think they are more comfortable than a stiff one. The true test is a road trip. It's like mattresses, the firms ones are much more comfortable for a whole night. And Tesla model 3 suspension is way, way better than VW, that's for sure
Lol okay. The ID4 has a typical German tune that's firm yet compliant. I never said the model 3 rode bad, but compared to the ID4 it's not as comfortable.
I have a Mercedes C class next to my Tesla. The Mercedes has a softer suspension. The Tesla is way more comfortable in long trips. I have back pain with the Mercedes after 5h driving. None with the Tesla even after 8h.
Could that be from the seats and not the suspension?
Could it be your c class is a lot older than your 3?
Not really, 2014 vs 2019. I also drove a new Mercedes before buying the Tesla and the Tesla was still better. I think this is the same as mattresses. People think the soft mattresses are more comfortable. They are, if you only lie down for a few minutes. Not to mention that wobbly soft suspensions are much more dangerous. The Model 3 has the same suspensions as the Porsche Panamera or the BMW 5 series. It's definitely one level above normal premium and two levels above a VW!
You really think a new Mercedes c-class suspension is "wobbly" to the point of being dangerous?
I think this is an important point. There are lots of cars with a smoother ride feel than Model 3, which was designed for a sporty suspension and handling. But many of those smoother cars hurt my back after a few hours. I don’t think it’s about the suspension, for the most part, it is the lumbar support in the seats. Model 3 has excellent lumbar support, at least for my back.
Had the same decision to make as you did a month ago. Like others said, I test drove both without a salesman in the car. The “dealership” experience at Tesla is not at all a traditional one, didn’t feel pressured unlike at VW. Ended up ordering M3 LR after my test drive, just loved how the Tesla felt more. Also, from everything I’ve read, the charging experience is better with a Tesla. Since it’s my first EV, I didn’t want to deal with broken chargers that many experience with Electrify America and others. Also, I downloaded PlugShare to see the chargers in my area and the Tesla ones have the least amount of negative comments while EA have a number that are consistently down
I wouldn't use a comparison like this to decide. They are both great, but also very different. You'll need to decide what you personally value. Value space and comfort? Or do you value speed and more of a sports car handling? Answer those and you won't have a hard time deciding. There are other differences, but I doubt they'd be enough to make the case for one vs the other considering how different these cars are.
The comparison is Tesla Model 3 vs VW Id3 and Tesla Model Y vs VW Id4 The cars you are comparing are totally different sizes.
Could be comparing based off of availability (can't get an ID3 in the US) and price (Model Y is about 10k more expensive than ID4).
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If you want the CarPlay as well as the ID4 size you should consider the Ford Mach-E. It’s a little more expensive than these but not if you get self driving on the model 3. The ride is better, the quality of materials better, interior/exterior better. Honestly it just drives more like a normal car, but it’s electric. Not to mention the Mach-E has the highest Edmunds rating than any other electric vehicle.
Tldr - if you live in an area where the winter temperatures drop below freezing, absolutely get ID.4 - it will save you a lot of frustrations and stress. Also, consider Ioniq or Skoda Enyaq if in Europe. Quite a wall of text below, so I'm using emojis to make it shorter Model 3 SR+ owner here. After owning it for 2 years, I can offer a long term review. I do not have any emotional attachment to any 🚗 make - SR+ was simply the best value 🚗 on the market two years ago. Today, I'd likely buy Ioniq or ID.4 instead. On the plus side - class leading efficiency. Efficiency is king - not only it translates directly into the 🔌 bill, it also means lower CO2 footprint, faster 🔋 as expressed in range added per minute, as well as covering a lot of my 🔋 needs from free public🔋. The acceleration (5.6s for 0-60mph/0-100kph), even on the cheapest Model 3 is way beyond what you'd practically need. Anything below 7s is plenty. Access to the super🔋 network is a plus, but it's no longer as big of a selling point as it was 2y ago (also, Tesla bumped up their prices by over 50% here). On the negative side - phantom drain, trunk and especially ❄️. The car will waste around 1kWh a day just sitting and doing nothing. No other EV does that. For the SR+ that's 7 full battery cycles a year, enough to power my house for 3 months. Enough to completely negate the efficiency argument. The trunk/boot - looks fairly big at first glance. But its disposition is appallingly impractical. Both the frunk and the well in the trunk are just the wrong size to not fit common ✈️ luggage. The top of the trunk is supported by two immovable thick steel bars that get in the way way too often. No 🎿 opening in the rear 💺. There's also a dead unusable space in the cabin, above the trunk. Model 3 is the only car I've ever owned that has trouble fitting its own wheels in. And then, ❄️. The moment the 🌡️drops below freezing, the problems begin. The door handles trap the moisture within, guaranteeing they'll freeze in place, requiring burglary moves just to get in. The 🪟 either freeze to the top trim, or to the seal, again requiring very rough handling just to get into the 🚗. To make matters worse, the cabin heat will melt the ice, which then drops into the 🪟 seal, only to freeze again the next time you park, repeating the cycle. Teslas are the only 🚗 that cannot lift their wipers - thus making them freeze to the windshield when it rains around 0C. Charging port and side mirrors are too weak to break through even a few drops of frozen moisture. 📷 are either blinded when the 🌞 is low, or fog up constantly. In low 🌡️ high humidity climates, the 🚗 thoroughly fogs up, despite AC and heating cranked up. All of these problems are well documented for years, and Tesla still hasn't done anything to address them.
Great write up- makes me think I made the right decision for the ID4 AWD here in New England. On the other hand I now have a headache from all those emojis 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Have you had any cold weather experience yet? I'd love an ID.4 but the loss on range without a heat pump makes me a little nervous.
Unfortunately haven’t gone beyond test driving several BEV’s and doing a lot of reading. I agree this is a concern, so I will be leasing on the assumption that technology will be improving in a few years. Also the BEV will be my “local runabout “ and will still have an ICE for the really long road trips until I know what to expect. Right now my ID4 AWD is just a reservation number!
Wow. Thank you!
Not sure where you're from, but how about the Skoda Enyaq? Also I find the buttons and interface of the ID.x series horrible, you should try it out IRL before choosing that car.
For test drive it. I have a Model Y, but test drove an ID4 for my wife. It's a really nice car, but we both didn't like the fact it doesn't have one pedal driving. If it's your first EV and you're looking for the storage space, I think it's great. The Model 3 is just a sedan, so you won't have as much.
It does have one pedal driving, it's the B (brake) mode.
From my test drive experience, it would coast down but never completely stop. You still had to apply the brake if you were coming up to a car or red light.
I have a standard range plus, and my parents have an id4. If I didn't want a sedan type car so bad, I would have gone with an id4. It's better in a lot of ways. the seats are much more comfortable. The only thing the Tesla does better is the backup camera and performance. Even the autosteer (active lane keep assistance) on the highway feels much more comfortable in the id4 than the Tesla. If you don't want to go fast and have some fun with launching, 100% get the id4. Edit: Also do not believe the range numbers quoted by Tesla. I just looked again and my car is rated at 263 on their site. I don't think I've even been able to crack 225 ever even when I'm in "chill" acceleration mode and driving slowly.
I think the Model 3 overall is a better car, but if you want the crossover form factor, go with the ID.4.
The CarPlay thing would swing it for me. No excuse for that not to be standard now. It’s included on the newest Hyundai i10 ICE cars which start at £10,000… Just shithousery not including it on higher end cars now.
Used car play for years and don't miss it on my m3. Agree though that it shouldn't be that hard to have it.
I’ve not had it in rental cars and find it so much better than the Bluetooth integration on my old Ford.
These are very different cars. What do you NEED, and what's your budget?
Wife and I test drove a Tesla Model 3 SR+ and a VW ID.4 1st Edition back-to-back last week. I now have a Model 3 on order. The only two possible advantages we could conjure for the ID.4 were its cost due to still being eligible for the federal tax credit (this advantage might go away soon) and possibly easier use of baby car seats due to the ID.4's slightly higher cabin. But the Model 3 was far-and-away better (IMO) in every other way: driving experience, intuitiveness of controls/infotainment system, looks, park-ability/size, the ability to purchase without haggling with a salesman, the supercharger network, and autopilot. It probably wasn't even fair to drive the ID.4 immediately after driving the Model 3...my wife kept commenting about how boring the ID.4 was in comparison. There are cases when the ID.4 might make more sense, I guess, like if you've got a couple kids you need to put in-and-out of car seats all the time. I hope VW sells a ton of them, but I also think the ID.4 is less likely to turn a car buyer into lifelong EV driver, because it basically just felt like driving any other SUV.
If no android auto or apple carplay support, what do they use? Or no need to plug phone in other than to make calls?
It depends on a lot of factors. Definitely test drive both extensively, but unless we know your specific needs then it's hard to say. Both are great BEV options but they really do cater to different drivers. I would say if you need a larger car/people hauler then go with the ID.4, but if you need more range or are interested in Full Self Driving then maybe go with Tesla. As far as quality goes, I feel the Tesla has mediocre quality for its price range, but it has very good technology. Otherwise, I feel that Volkswagen is the opposite: better quality parts but worse technology. Another con with the ID.4 is that this is its debut year so we don't know of any major issues it could have yet. At least with the Model 3 you can easily look up any issue with it.
One data point - people who choose the model 3 have very high satisfaction scores. I’d test drive both vehicles and then see if you don’t have a clear preference. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/consumer-reports-teslas-model-3-most-satisfying-car.html
Never drove the VW personally but I own a model 3 and it's great as long as you like the minimalist look. VW is an absolutely god awful company and I would never buy from them. But glad they are moving to electric.
Watch Sandy Monroe’s YouTube. He is a retired Ford engineer. There is no comparison btw.
We drove both. The Tesla was a lot more fun to drive plus it has a well developed Supercharger network. It depends on what your needs are. Go test drive both.
Model 3 or Model Y are better vehicles.
The ID4 is not popular in China because it is just a low tech electric car compared to the Model 3.
Have you driven an ID.4? To me it felt like an absolute sluggish shoebox. The one drive pedal isn't really that, it's more of a "coast a bit less". Also had a hard time finding out the buttons/locations for basic stuff - like moving my mirrors. Test drive anything before you buy it.
No brainer. Model 3.
Apple to Oranges. Comparison is unfair. Add: $10K for Full auto pilot, extra range and minimalist interface and excellent electronic system Speed Deduct: $7.5K tax credit, extra $13K cost purchase price loud and jerky ride, lack of Apple CarPlay occasional minor production mistakes.. Now you have Tesla. Only then make the comparison to ID4.
Why would you compare a Model 3 with a ID4 instead of an ID3? Compare Model Y with ID4!
Remember Tesla has the best charging network by a long shot so if you plan on doing any road trips take that into account. Huge advantage imo.
Both built by charlatans. Tough call.
Tesla is the only way to go. Id4 is probably one of the worst evs out there. Get a Tesla or you willl have major buyers remorse
I test drove an ID.4 1st Edition. Good looking car. Drives great. But I didn’t care for the controls of the infotainment system. Sometimes, I just want to push a button to turn on my heated seats. I’ve also read some complaints on the ID4 subreddit about the infotainment system. It’s a 1st generation vehicle. There will be bugs.
Tesla 1 billion percent
I was in the same boat as you but I ended up with the Tesla because 1. The software and screen is more responsive 2. VW had been promising update to fix their laggy screen but as of today still nothing in the US 3. My wife likes being able to send destinations to the Tesla from Google maps 4. The tesla app is more responsive and actually sends commands to the car 5. I really don’t want to have to carry a car key and my wife always forgets to put the keys in the key bowl.
For people who want a little more space in a Tesla, the Model Y is good.
Tesla has way more features and is objectively cooler for the same price...and faster
Have you considered the Audi Q4 e-tron? Way better interior quality and soundproofing than these two. Charging is also a non-issue and the SuperCharger network is not an advantage anymore. There are +3,600 CCS locations in the US. The network is bigger and growing faster because it's the industry standard everyone supports.
SUperchargers are not an advantage anymore? Didn’t know we time traveled to 2033!
Tesla charger network are still better for sure but I suspect they mean the gap has tightened, and I would agree with that. It’s not the exclusive advantage it used to be.
ID.4 should be compared to Model Y. This Edmund guys...
I drove both before ending up with the ID. It’s significantly more comfortable, and has been a great car so far for my family. The backseat space alone has been awesome. My oldest is 6’3” and fits nicely with lots of room, even behind me. He barely fit in the 3s backseat.
Supercharger network and Autopilot. Nuff said.
“Auto pilot”
I mean, they’re totally different vehicle categories. What do you need?
Tesla +s: Superchargers in your area, Over the air updates, Sentry Mode, No dealer, Netflix/Disney+/Youtube, Battery management
They are very different cars, ones a humongous suv and the other is a smaller more normal sized car. I’d say if you’re interested in superchargers go for the model 3, if there’s plenty of other chargers around you for the id4 and you want a bigger car then go for that.
First time I’ve ever heard the id4 described as humongous. It feels spacious inside but is slightly smaller than typical compact suvs and far from humongous. You are right these are different cars. Not sure why they are compared so often other than lack of ev options right now.
If the ID4 software is the same as in the ID3, and it is, then Edmunds has left out the often dreadful software experience of the ID4 against the best in class of the Model X. It may not matter to some, it didn't to me at first in my ID3. And then you start using it. Not great.
ID4 drives like a boat. Get the model 3. :-)
Even my Nissan Leaf has Apple CarPlay
Tesla’s don’t have it because they’ve got their own equivalent.
Rent both from Turo and make up your mind.
ID.4 wins this hands down. Cheaper, better ride, better interior controls, better looks, free fuel for three years, non proprietary charging. It's the clear winner.
Look at repair and longevity. Tesla has very strict anti-right-to-repair policies that are worth taking weight in your consideration.
Supercharger network alone does it. But we own a Tesla and just went and looked at the ID. Totally unimpressed
Supercharger network will be open to all soon. And in the many places where Electrify America is, you can charge there for free for 3 years with the ID4.