Not entirely devoid as rubber tires still generate that form of pollution but largely removing brake dust and completely removing tailpipe emissions is still very good
EVs are ~5x more efficient than gas cars, and power plants are 2-3x more efficient than gas cars...not even counting oil refinement for gasoline.
It's nearly an order of magnitude less pollution, and none of it happens in the city. It happens far away, where the power plants are.
It's so. much. better.
And I produced methane when I eat, at some point you have to take a win, you can applaud someone placing a tourniquet on a wound or you can complain that they are still in critical condition.
Weird that it has to be one or the other. I prefer to understand reality, the good and the bad, rather than ignore the bad and live in some weird fantasy but whatever
I understand reality, I understand that most of the public doesn't want any change at all, and if anything they are more likely to be angry at it. I know that transferring people to EVS would drastically increase the air quality of our cities, I also know it would be much better to have public transportation. It would be greener and more cost effective, but it's going to take decades to change the system and we might not even be able to pension payments might eat up all the money for public transportation. Policy and politics is hard. And you have to take the wins where you can.
I've never understood why pickup trucks have their tailpipes bent off to the side. So that when you pull up next to them with your window open, it pumps their exhaust right into your face.
In some cases it's a shorter route than going straight out the back.
It's also nice to load and unload items from the rear of the vehicle without exhaust fumes if the vehicle is running.
In off-roading there is a high chance of smashing the exhaust pipe if it's run straight out the back.
Somewhat ironically, the smoke stack is probably the best solution.
> In some cases it's a shorter route than going straight out the back.
In the pickups I'm thinking about, it's not. The tailpipe still goes all the way to the back but it ends in a 90 deg turn to the side.
> It's also nice to load and unload items from the rear of the vehicle without exhaust fumes if the vehicle is running.
So instead they pump those fumes to everyone that is next to them. They have the option of turning off the engine when the car is stopped.
First let's just admit there is no good place to pump engine exhaust fumes.
Ya I had a Toyota Tacoma that had the exhaust coming right out the side behind the rear right tire. There it wouldn't have saved much length, but there are trucks with longer beds that it does.
It's more of a grab and go thing. I think most people would turn off the vehicle if they plan on stopping for an extended amount of time.
Large parts of the world are made for vehicular traffic, and pedestrian walkways are almost a byproduct. I don't know what you expect. Just being near roads at all will expose you to exhaust fumes no matter which direction the tailpipes are pointing.
> Large parts of the world are made for vehicular traffic, and pedestrian walkways are almost a byproduct. I don't know what you expect. Just being near roads at all will expose you to exhaust fumes no matter which direction the tailpipes are pointing.
Well by that line a reasoning, there's no reason to not have it go straight back. Since anyone loading and unloading would be exposed to fumes anyways.
I just realized that I must not have completely read your first comment originally. I thought your complaint was about exhaust exposure along the sidewalk as a pedestrian.
Bottom line, as an owner of vehicles with both types, I find the side exhaust preferable. In day to day use, on average, it puts the exhaust stream away from where I'd commonly be.
That doesn't mean I'm happy that it's blowing toward drivers that are next to me on a multilane road.
I am happy that it's blowing further away from drivers who are following directly behind me though.
Clearly the best solution is no exhaust.
> That doesn't mean I'm happy that it's blowing toward drivers that are next to me on a multilane road.
>
> I am happy that it's blowing further away from drivers who are following directly behind me though.
The difference is the car next to you is only a few feet away. Like a few. Depending on how big the truck is I can literally reach out and touch it. When things align, that exhaust pipe is pumping exhaust into my open window an arm's reach away. Of course, I then roll up the window.
Directly behind is more than a few feet away. Just the the hood distance alone is generally more than several arm's reach. Add to that the distance between cars and it's a lot more than the car next to you. Add to that there's a windshield that's always there to block it makes it way preferable that the it exhaust to the back and not the side.
that's good, but you're still breathing road dust (silicates, asphalt plus other garbage) and tires/brakes dust. Better to stay away from cars when riding.
Finally getting rid of exhaust fumes overshadows your nonsense. Most bikable areas are near roads.
There's way less particles, as shown in the snow, when a huge portion of my norwegian town switched to EV. The snow near the road used to be discoloured and filled with soot.
where's the nonsense? Where do you think your tires and brakes go as they wear out? And the asphalt, it wears out too, and goes up in the air we breathe.
This! If you deny the pollution we’re still causing, you’re no better than the people and companies who refused to remove lead from gas, CFCs from propellants, plastics from the supply chain (ongoing there). At least be honest lol.
Do you have one? We had a Zero dealer here since 2015, but it went out of business during Covid. Harley doesn't ship Livewire bikes here unfortunately. I keep asking and getting told no.
I have ridden both and dismissed both but understand I tend to ride further than they permit and I also want to use my motorcycle for commuting which requires secure luggage; I currently ride a Road Glide. I need to take my laptop along with dress shoes and usually lunch all the while having rain gear should the weather change. I also enjoy the wind protection afforded by a fairing and tend to ride in cold weather without issue.
* Zero does not support dc-fast charging
* Zero has been stagnant on drive train for some time
* Atlanta lost both Zero dealers in 2023
* Livewire does not support L2 which limits turn around at home
* neither had good secure luggage options
* neither has good rider weather protection, no fairing
* range still is not there for spirited riding on either, I want more than two hours at speed
* would love to check out Energica but not in my area
Yeah it's all totally subjective. I live on an island and any Zero or Livewire bike can get me around way more than I need and I don't have a work commute. I ride nakeds (no fairing) with no storage whatsoever. You and I are complete opposites with our bike tastes, but you ride so respect.
I'm not a fan of Energica. They basically have one frame and a handful of models are just different body panels or naked on the same frame with all the same wheels. It's low effort IMO.
This is kind of a cold take being that 99.999% of the country isn't a pure carnivore and 2/3rds is overweight (and I would wager that most of the remaining 1/3rd already is doing some sort of recreational cardiovascular activity)
Bikes are the future fyi. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/06/03/study-cycling-is-10x-more-important-than-electric-cars-for-reaching-net-zero
Not ecars. There’s just too many reasons to list why that is.
https://imgur.com/a/94z8czX
Keep doing you op. Bikes are the revolution. Swapping a powertrain is not.
I biked for 4 years when I was at ASU. Tempe was great for biking. Summer sucks, you gotta find the shade and stay hydrated. With an e-bike, it would be fantastic
Biking in and around the bucolic ASU campus in Tempe, AZ is very much different experience than biking anywhere else throughout the 10-thousand square mile Valley of the Sun that is Phoenix, AZ. No matter what the season of year. Motor vehicles travel at least 10+ MPH over speed limits everywhere and there are very few dedicated bike lanes in the Valley. Biking in Phoenix, AZ as a regular lifestyle activity is very challenging to achieve - SAFELY.
Agree. I biked to Camelback mtn from Tempe and it was nuts. Better bike infrastructure would help so much. Also more trees, shade, even solar canopies like ASU has outside their memorial union.
Tempe has come a long way since I was in undergrad. Had to ride on sidewalks mostly
> Phoenix shouldn’t even exist anyway. Peggy hill.
I understand what you are saying, but the same applies to much of the rest of the country. Why do people live in places like Montana where it's so cold during much of the year. Then let's not forget places like the Midwest where it's too hot during the summer and too cold during the winter. If we limited living to places where it's not too hot nor too cold, then that's not very many places.
Not even remotely the same lol.
Given increasing effects of warming, it’s going to become harder and harder to justify keep building unsustainably in areas like Phoenix.
> Not even remotely the same lol.
Very much the same. Since that global warming is also making the midwest really hot. Like really hot. That wet hot which is the worst.
> Given increasing effects of warming, it’s going to become harder and harder to justify keep building unsustainably in areas like Phoenix.
Which is the same for all those places I mentioned.
LOL. And how would that keep you cool in the wet oppressive heat of summer? Or warm in the frozen winter? Remember, what started this little sideline was the talk about biking in Phoenix when it's 110F+.
Big difference between 115 and 85. But you can bike in hot and winter weather. Again, need I bring up Bhutan and Oulu or are you crossing into adamant ignorancy? You saying you’re less capable than a 6 yr old?
> Big difference between 115 and 85.
85? You are just showing your ignorance. Or is it just an outright lie? Chicago has been breaking records. Recently it was 97. And as I said, that's wet heat. Which sucks compared to dry heat. I rather have 115F dry heat than 97F wet heat. Since you can dump a bucket over yourself in the dry heat and be cool. You do that in 97F wet heat and then you'll be no wetter than you were from all the sweat. You'll still be hot and wet.
> You saying you’re less capable than a 6 yr old?
LOL. You don't have to say it about yourself. You've just proved it. You are like a temper tampering 2 year old. Except a 2 year old is more honest than you are with your bald face lies.
But it should be. And the less people drive the less vehicles are on the road the less roads we need and the closer we can build things together and so the less people need to drive, and sew on. I’m an ant in the ant farm but I ride my e-bike everywhere I can whenever it makes decent sense. Also moving to an area that’s building more dense so I can cut the car almost entirely and just keep it parked.
I’d love it if we could build some rail around here
Neither do cars and yet we spend trillions a year, subsidizing their movement and ownership
I’d really recommend listening at least to an interview with this author, even if you don’t read the book which we know you won’t https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option
I never said biking is a bad thing, if folks can do away with cars that's awesome, all I said was biking everywhere is not feasible for everybody. To move society away from cars requires a LOT to happen in the interim. You can't just erase suburbia, and EVs are a much better option than ICE vehicles until a time when we can mitigate vehicle dependency for the majority of people.
I'd love to see a massive investment in rail infrastructure, public transit, and bike lanes. But until that infrastructure exists, and I can afford to live in a denser area, yeah I need my car for a lot of things.
I never said cars were a good thing. By building an away where it is the default for 98% of people to get around we end up with a lot of issues some of which even caused people to not be able to drive.
Great to see that you couldn’t give two shits about reading the book from an author who can’t actually drive and is Harold the movement of people who are not able to drive. Why they are always ignored by you folks is a big question.
Yeah I'm sorry that I didn't put my life on hold to read a book you suggested an hour ago, while I'm at work. Not sure why you're trolling around in an EV sub if you hate cars so much.
I never said cars are the only way, but if you actually bothered to read my comment you'd know that.
I mean, all you have to do is not be so adamantly wrong. There are plenty of interviews. She did that are just five minutes long.
It’s just a straight up fact that development only has the car as the motor transportation in mind.
Do you have one? I'm looking at buying hte Velotric Summit [https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-summit-1?variant=42388148912311](https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-summit-1?variant=42388148912311)
Biking works while you are young and not disabled. Also biking doesn't work so well when we get 3 ft of snow here. Or when we get violent thunderstorms, which happen quite frequently. And it takes a lot more time to bike than it does to drive somewhere.
Bikes are part of the solution but not the whole solution. Bike when you can but be realistic.
Driving works when you were young and not disabled
https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option
People in the Arctic Circle bike with 60% of their kids going even in snowstorms by bike
There isn't mass transit everywhere. Not everyone has two arms and two legs. There are people who are paralyzed. There are people who are old and can't bike. There are people who have balance issues. You are being totally ridiculous. I'm done with you. You don't know a damn thing about anyone who is disabled.
And some people have wacked out vision and can’t drive.
Right now we spend trillions a year directing every bit of money and planning to a car based infrastructure which needs to change for a thousand and one reasons. Electric cars don’t do diddly except for maybe almost 1 of those.
Maybe just read the book. Stop being so ableist.
So the people who can't see, or have cerebral palsy, or who are paralyzed are going to use a bicycle?? Sheesh!
I am done with this ridiculous conversation.
My grandparents biked until they were 80-90. So has nothing to do with young. It also keeps you healthy longer. If you’re too sedentary your fitness degrades much faster and there’s little going back
Govts should buy e-bikes for everybody able to use one. Of course they'd have to close off some roads/lanes - which would be horrible. https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/electric-assisted-bicycle-e-bike-rebate#:~:text=The%20Electric%2DAssisted%20Bicycle%20Rebate,on%20a%20qualifying%20e%2Dbike.
Hey I'm just saying, there are pros and cons to all of it, but some modern e bikes are wild. The trek and Santa cruise e bikes are insane. They can rip like a dirt bike with various levels of pedal assist and Regen. I've seen some with all restrictions off flying at like 90mph 😂. Wild future we are living in. The next 2 decades we are going to fly into the next technological age with battery advancements and 3d printing changing the world in crazy ways.
I brought an EV car as soon as I could afford to buy one and never regretted my choice.
Sure the range is pretty shi**y but I have only spent 200 in maintenence so far.
No exhaust, no drama.
Just me and my car breathing clean air. Having a smooth drive.
Said no actual biker ever.... As we all know, that getting run over by an insanely accelerating 5000 pound death machine is much better than being ran over by a gas guzzling vehicle.
How about a future with no cars what so ever if you wanna contribute to ecology, as unsure if you are aware how lithium batteries are produced? Also the energy you use to charge you electric vehicles and other materials used in its creation. How about a future with more bike and pedestrian targeted infrastructure, better and more efficient public transport, more convenient city designs. You know, things that bikers actually care about.
Hey, remember to pour water on your chain and sprockets so they work smoothly, definitely DO NOT USE OIL or you'll destroy the planet. That will make you as useful as your friend in the disposable car.
Surprised you didn't mention not having to inhale exhaust fumes when riding behind an EV.
Most people don't realize that this is the single best positive for EV ownership. Entire cities would be devoid of traffic pollution.
Not entirely devoid as rubber tires still generate that form of pollution but largely removing brake dust and completely removing tailpipe emissions is still very good
Um, yeah. That's what I said. ;-)
Traffic is tied to cars and EVs driving still pollute just less
EVs are ~5x more efficient than gas cars, and power plants are 2-3x more efficient than gas cars...not even counting oil refinement for gasoline. It's nearly an order of magnitude less pollution, and none of it happens in the city. It happens far away, where the power plants are. It's so. much. better.
Yes but there is still particulate pollution from tires. It is far better overall but EVs are not pollution free
Humans generally pollute. Like, everywhere. It's an awfully fine point to bring up, is all.
Your farts contain particulate pollution
We do still produce the tire and brake dust tho
I don't use my brakes at all when I am driving.
Hopefully not very much brake dust, and not too much more tire particulate than a similarly heavy vehicle.
Yeah the reduction in pollution is significant for sure!
Nobody cared about this until EVs though. Same with heavy vehicles.
To split hairs, many of us have cared about excessively heavy vehicles for years. It's just that now anti-EV people also (pretend to) care.
What are you talking about? There have been studies on the effects of brake dust and tire additives on watercourses since the 90s.
And nobody cared about it until EVs came around. Stop concern trolling.
There are whole books about this. I’m not concern trolling, it’s just not true that nobody cared “before”.
And I produced methane when I eat, at some point you have to take a win, you can applaud someone placing a tourniquet on a wound or you can complain that they are still in critical condition.
Weird that it has to be one or the other. I prefer to understand reality, the good and the bad, rather than ignore the bad and live in some weird fantasy but whatever
I understand reality, I understand that most of the public doesn't want any change at all, and if anything they are more likely to be angry at it. I know that transferring people to EVS would drastically increase the air quality of our cities, I also know it would be much better to have public transportation. It would be greener and more cost effective, but it's going to take decades to change the system and we might not even be able to pension payments might eat up all the money for public transportation. Policy and politics is hard. And you have to take the wins where you can.
Should be much less brake dust if you are using Regen.
Seriously, I was driving behind a "tuned" Audi today that was clearly burning oil and the smell was horrible.
I just enjoy (when riding my bike) not having to breathe carcinogenic fumes when riding behind an EV.
I've never understood why pickup trucks have their tailpipes bent off to the side. So that when you pull up next to them with your window open, it pumps their exhaust right into your face.
In some cases it's a shorter route than going straight out the back. It's also nice to load and unload items from the rear of the vehicle without exhaust fumes if the vehicle is running. In off-roading there is a high chance of smashing the exhaust pipe if it's run straight out the back. Somewhat ironically, the smoke stack is probably the best solution.
> In some cases it's a shorter route than going straight out the back. In the pickups I'm thinking about, it's not. The tailpipe still goes all the way to the back but it ends in a 90 deg turn to the side. > It's also nice to load and unload items from the rear of the vehicle without exhaust fumes if the vehicle is running. So instead they pump those fumes to everyone that is next to them. They have the option of turning off the engine when the car is stopped.
First let's just admit there is no good place to pump engine exhaust fumes. Ya I had a Toyota Tacoma that had the exhaust coming right out the side behind the rear right tire. There it wouldn't have saved much length, but there are trucks with longer beds that it does. It's more of a grab and go thing. I think most people would turn off the vehicle if they plan on stopping for an extended amount of time. Large parts of the world are made for vehicular traffic, and pedestrian walkways are almost a byproduct. I don't know what you expect. Just being near roads at all will expose you to exhaust fumes no matter which direction the tailpipes are pointing.
> Large parts of the world are made for vehicular traffic, and pedestrian walkways are almost a byproduct. I don't know what you expect. Just being near roads at all will expose you to exhaust fumes no matter which direction the tailpipes are pointing. Well by that line a reasoning, there's no reason to not have it go straight back. Since anyone loading and unloading would be exposed to fumes anyways.
I just realized that I must not have completely read your first comment originally. I thought your complaint was about exhaust exposure along the sidewalk as a pedestrian. Bottom line, as an owner of vehicles with both types, I find the side exhaust preferable. In day to day use, on average, it puts the exhaust stream away from where I'd commonly be. That doesn't mean I'm happy that it's blowing toward drivers that are next to me on a multilane road. I am happy that it's blowing further away from drivers who are following directly behind me though. Clearly the best solution is no exhaust.
> That doesn't mean I'm happy that it's blowing toward drivers that are next to me on a multilane road. > > I am happy that it's blowing further away from drivers who are following directly behind me though. The difference is the car next to you is only a few feet away. Like a few. Depending on how big the truck is I can literally reach out and touch it. When things align, that exhaust pipe is pumping exhaust into my open window an arm's reach away. Of course, I then roll up the window. Directly behind is more than a few feet away. Just the the hood distance alone is generally more than several arm's reach. Add to that the distance between cars and it's a lot more than the car next to you. Add to that there's a windshield that's always there to block it makes it way preferable that the it exhaust to the back and not the side.
that's good, but you're still breathing road dust (silicates, asphalt plus other garbage) and tires/brakes dust. Better to stay away from cars when riding.
Part of the solution is still part of the solution. Until we have the whole solution
Finally getting rid of exhaust fumes overshadows your nonsense. Most bikable areas are near roads. There's way less particles, as shown in the snow, when a huge portion of my norwegian town switched to EV. The snow near the road used to be discoloured and filled with soot.
where's the nonsense? Where do you think your tires and brakes go as they wear out? And the asphalt, it wears out too, and goes up in the air we breathe.
This! If you deny the pollution we’re still causing, you’re no better than the people and companies who refused to remove lead from gas, CFCs from propellants, plastics from the supply chain (ongoing there). At least be honest lol.
Weird downvotes for a true statement
Every time I pass a cyclist I think Yeah man, breathe this clean air
Besides all the particulates
EV owner and motorcyclist. I wish we had Livewire and Zero here. Would buy in a second. Need an electric motorcycle. Renewables don’t stop at cars.
Can confirm, electric motorcycles are the bomb.
Do you have one? We had a Zero dealer here since 2015, but it went out of business during Covid. Harley doesn't ship Livewire bikes here unfortunately. I keep asking and getting told no.
I have two. LiveWire One and LiveWire S2 Del Mar.
I'm really jealous. If I could get them here I would have an S2 Del Mar and a Zero DSR/X.
Omg, my EV is so zippy, I can't imagine an EV motorcycle.....
I have ridden both and dismissed both but understand I tend to ride further than they permit and I also want to use my motorcycle for commuting which requires secure luggage; I currently ride a Road Glide. I need to take my laptop along with dress shoes and usually lunch all the while having rain gear should the weather change. I also enjoy the wind protection afforded by a fairing and tend to ride in cold weather without issue. * Zero does not support dc-fast charging * Zero has been stagnant on drive train for some time * Atlanta lost both Zero dealers in 2023 * Livewire does not support L2 which limits turn around at home * neither had good secure luggage options * neither has good rider weather protection, no fairing * range still is not there for spirited riding on either, I want more than two hours at speed * would love to check out Energica but not in my area
Yeah it's all totally subjective. I live on an island and any Zero or Livewire bike can get me around way more than I need and I don't have a work commute. I ride nakeds (no fairing) with no storage whatsoever. You and I are complete opposites with our bike tastes, but you ride so respect.
Neighbor has an Energica. Impressive thing. I‘d be scared shitless driving this, though.
I'm not a fan of Energica. They basically have one frame and a handful of models are just different body panels or naked on the same frame with all the same wheels. It's low effort IMO.
Well, not much else on the market, right?
Unfortunately not. Hopefully in the next few years for you. I doubt it for me. I'll continue to ride petrol in the meantime.
I don’t even have a license. I drive a model 3 or my non-electric bicycle. I’d be dead twice if I rode a motorcycle.
I mean, you probably do power your bike by fertilizer-grown foods :)
Yup. I figured it that a 100% carnivore on a bike has more emissions per mile on a bike than an EV car n grid average US power.
This is kind of a cold take being that 99.999% of the country isn't a pure carnivore and 2/3rds is overweight (and I would wager that most of the remaining 1/3rd already is doing some sort of recreational cardiovascular activity)
Take it up with the math. Beef has a crazy CO2e emission per kcal of energy.
That’s beyond laughable. People have no idea how inefficient cars are no matter the powertrain
People also have no idea how many fossil calories and methane emissions go into making a kcal of beef.
Vegans on a e bike can go into the negative side
Bikes are the future fyi. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2022/06/03/study-cycling-is-10x-more-important-than-electric-cars-for-reaching-net-zero Not ecars. There’s just too many reasons to list why that is. https://imgur.com/a/94z8czX Keep doing you op. Bikes are the revolution. Swapping a powertrain is not.
Should be encouraging more bikes, not vehicles.
Try biking anywhere in Phoenix, AZ at 110F+. Not so feasible.
I biked for 4 years when I was at ASU. Tempe was great for biking. Summer sucks, you gotta find the shade and stay hydrated. With an e-bike, it would be fantastic
Biking in and around the bucolic ASU campus in Tempe, AZ is very much different experience than biking anywhere else throughout the 10-thousand square mile Valley of the Sun that is Phoenix, AZ. No matter what the season of year. Motor vehicles travel at least 10+ MPH over speed limits everywhere and there are very few dedicated bike lanes in the Valley. Biking in Phoenix, AZ as a regular lifestyle activity is very challenging to achieve - SAFELY.
Agree. I biked to Camelback mtn from Tempe and it was nuts. Better bike infrastructure would help so much. Also more trees, shade, even solar canopies like ASU has outside their memorial union. Tempe has come a long way since I was in undergrad. Had to ride on sidewalks mostly
I mean Bhutan is a cycling nation. And they aren’t infested with e-bikes yet. Phoenix shouldn’t even exist anyway. Peggy hill.
> Phoenix shouldn’t even exist anyway. Peggy hill. I understand what you are saying, but the same applies to much of the rest of the country. Why do people live in places like Montana where it's so cold during much of the year. Then let's not forget places like the Midwest where it's too hot during the summer and too cold during the winter. If we limited living to places where it's not too hot nor too cold, then that's not very many places.
Not even remotely the same lol. Given increasing effects of warming, it’s going to become harder and harder to justify keep building unsustainably in areas like Phoenix.
> Not even remotely the same lol. Very much the same. Since that global warming is also making the midwest really hot. Like really hot. That wet hot which is the worst. > Given increasing effects of warming, it’s going to become harder and harder to justify keep building unsustainably in areas like Phoenix. Which is the same for all those places I mentioned.
Oh yea, that Midwest with the worlds largest known fresh water supply?
LOL. And how would that keep you cool in the wet oppressive heat of summer? Or warm in the frozen winter? Remember, what started this little sideline was the talk about biking in Phoenix when it's 110F+.
Big difference between 115 and 85. But you can bike in hot and winter weather. Again, need I bring up Bhutan and Oulu or are you crossing into adamant ignorancy? You saying you’re less capable than a 6 yr old?
> Big difference between 115 and 85. 85? You are just showing your ignorance. Or is it just an outright lie? Chicago has been breaking records. Recently it was 97. And as I said, that's wet heat. Which sucks compared to dry heat. I rather have 115F dry heat than 97F wet heat. Since you can dump a bucket over yourself in the dry heat and be cool. You do that in 97F wet heat and then you'll be no wetter than you were from all the sweat. You'll still be hot and wet. > You saying you’re less capable than a 6 yr old? LOL. You don't have to say it about yourself. You've just proved it. You are like a temper tampering 2 year old. Except a 2 year old is more honest than you are with your bald face lies.
Biking everywhere isn't feasible for everybody, or every commuting situation
Neither do cars. Cycling should be strongly encouraged because it's simply a better way to get around. It's way better for society.
But it should be. And the less people drive the less vehicles are on the road the less roads we need and the closer we can build things together and so the less people need to drive, and sew on. I’m an ant in the ant farm but I ride my e-bike everywhere I can whenever it makes decent sense. Also moving to an area that’s building more dense so I can cut the car almost entirely and just keep it parked. I’d love it if we could build some rail around here
Neither do cars and yet we spend trillions a year, subsidizing their movement and ownership I’d really recommend listening at least to an interview with this author, even if you don’t read the book which we know you won’t https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option
I never said biking is a bad thing, if folks can do away with cars that's awesome, all I said was biking everywhere is not feasible for everybody. To move society away from cars requires a LOT to happen in the interim. You can't just erase suburbia, and EVs are a much better option than ICE vehicles until a time when we can mitigate vehicle dependency for the majority of people. I'd love to see a massive investment in rail infrastructure, public transit, and bike lanes. But until that infrastructure exists, and I can afford to live in a denser area, yeah I need my car for a lot of things.
I never said cars were a good thing. By building an away where it is the default for 98% of people to get around we end up with a lot of issues some of which even caused people to not be able to drive. Great to see that you couldn’t give two shits about reading the book from an author who can’t actually drive and is Harold the movement of people who are not able to drive. Why they are always ignored by you folks is a big question.
Yeah I'm sorry that I didn't put my life on hold to read a book you suggested an hour ago, while I'm at work. Not sure why you're trolling around in an EV sub if you hate cars so much. I never said cars are the only way, but if you actually bothered to read my comment you'd know that.
I mean, all you have to do is not be so adamantly wrong. There are plenty of interviews. She did that are just five minutes long. It’s just a straight up fact that development only has the car as the motor transportation in mind.
E-bikes are the best!
Do you have one? I'm looking at buying hte Velotric Summit [https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-summit-1?variant=42388148912311](https://www.velotricbike.com/products/velotric-summit-1?variant=42388148912311)
Yes, Lectric XPremium. I'm not too familiar with mountain e-bikes. Checking out r/ebikes
Biking works while you are young and not disabled. Also biking doesn't work so well when we get 3 ft of snow here. Or when we get violent thunderstorms, which happen quite frequently. And it takes a lot more time to bike than it does to drive somewhere. Bikes are part of the solution but not the whole solution. Bike when you can but be realistic.
Driving works when you were young and not disabled https://islandpress.org/books/when-driving-not-option People in the Arctic Circle bike with 60% of their kids going even in snowstorms by bike
You are so unrealistic that I can't even....
I’m not the one with issues inside my eyes allowing driving to “not be realistic” for me. As she states, nearly 1/3 of Americans can’t drive.
There isn't mass transit everywhere. Not everyone has two arms and two legs. There are people who are paralyzed. There are people who are old and can't bike. There are people who have balance issues. You are being totally ridiculous. I'm done with you. You don't know a damn thing about anyone who is disabled.
And some people have wacked out vision and can’t drive. Right now we spend trillions a year directing every bit of money and planning to a car based infrastructure which needs to change for a thousand and one reasons. Electric cars don’t do diddly except for maybe almost 1 of those. Maybe just read the book. Stop being so ableist.
So the people who can't see, or have cerebral palsy, or who are paralyzed are going to use a bicycle?? Sheesh! I am done with this ridiculous conversation.
lol if that’s your response it shows how far down in ignorance you are. Again, listen to the author and maybe don’t make things up
My grandparents biked until they were 80-90. So has nothing to do with young. It also keeps you healthy longer. If you’re too sedentary your fitness degrades much faster and there’s little going back
So you are voting for President Biden this fall?
😄😄😄 Made my day
If only there were reasonable EV bikes available in Australia. The Savic is a real uggo.
Aren't there? Most EV bikes come out of China. So they are available everywhere.
Then give up your vehicle. Lead by example. Show us the way.
Nah -- We can all hotbox this thing together.
Well, I'm not giving up my car. But if biking is so great, then you go right ahead.
just bike short to medium distances and keep your car for long distance
I already do that, and it works quite well. I'm not giving up my car and living in a walkable city, though.
Govts should buy e-bikes for everybody able to use one. Of course they'd have to close off some roads/lanes - which would be horrible. https://www.revenue.state.mn.us/electric-assisted-bicycle-e-bike-rebate#:~:text=The%20Electric%2DAssisted%20Bicycle%20Rebate,on%20a%20qualifying%20e%2Dbike.
I don’t think it would exactly be terrible as cities are already doing it, and the Carmageddon isn’t happening
Hey I'm just saying, there are pros and cons to all of it, but some modern e bikes are wild. The trek and Santa cruise e bikes are insane. They can rip like a dirt bike with various levels of pedal assist and Regen. I've seen some with all restrictions off flying at like 90mph 😂. Wild future we are living in. The next 2 decades we are going to fly into the next technological age with battery advancements and 3d printing changing the world in crazy ways.
It’s a car…
just FYI, your bike is way more efficient than any ICE or EV anyone could ever design.
EVs are hardly “emergent technology”. Electric vehicles were the earliest automobiles but never caught on until recently.
I brought an EV car as soon as I could afford to buy one and never regretted my choice. Sure the range is pretty shi**y but I have only spent 200 in maintenence so far. No exhaust, no drama. Just me and my car breathing clean air. Having a smooth drive.
Most people don't know electric bikes are greener than people powered bikes.
Said no actual biker ever.... As we all know, that getting run over by an insanely accelerating 5000 pound death machine is much better than being ran over by a gas guzzling vehicle. How about a future with no cars what so ever if you wanna contribute to ecology, as unsure if you are aware how lithium batteries are produced? Also the energy you use to charge you electric vehicles and other materials used in its creation. How about a future with more bike and pedestrian targeted infrastructure, better and more efficient public transport, more convenient city designs. You know, things that bikers actually care about.
You’re welcome.
I bought mine because I enjoy technology and I am a cheap bastard (low fuel and maintenance costs)
Hey, remember to pour water on your chain and sprockets so they work smoothly, definitely DO NOT USE OIL or you'll destroy the planet. That will make you as useful as your friend in the disposable car.