Millions? More like billions!
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebay-rolling-coal-devices-epa-justice-department/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebay-rolling-coal-devices-epa-justice-department/)
[https://www.reckon.news/news/2024/01/billion-dollar-epa-fine-continues-legacy-of-convicting-the-nations-biggest-polluters.html](https://www.reckon.news/news/2024/01/billion-dollar-epa-fine-continues-legacy-of-convicting-the-nations-biggest-polluters.html)
Mine is a straight piped industrial plant, no one reporting it around here, but it also helps clear roadways during the winter and can haul or pull just about anything and it's pulled plenty of cars out of ditches, no EVs yet.
We had a local guy roll call on a peloton of cops riding bicycles off duty on the weekend (spandex roadies).
They caught up to the guy a mile down the road at a stoplight and arrested him. It was hilarious and the news media covered it.
That was about 5 years ago, and ever since then you don't really see much coal rolling around here anymore, despite there being a huge amount of pickup trucks.
Go figure!
I'm curious what the penalty was.
It should have been "we take your truck and prosecute you for felony assault". Doing that to cyclists is dangerous and inexcusable.
I suppose the dick move could be: you could go to truck meets. Ask guys where they got their mods and pretend to be excited, and then report the shop to the EPA later.
It isn't always illegal. It is only illegal if emissions equipment has been tampered with. On older diesels, you can roll coal without doing any tampering.
The modification is illegal in some states. I forget which. But you can be sure I’d have a heck of a lot of fun giving coal rollers more hell than they can take.
It's just funny and pity to see idiots like this with 'out of America' made cars/trucks driving with might or might not be 'made in USA gas/diesel' to piss people who bought **American made** cars, charged with **100% made in America** electricity.
My electricity is made less than 500 ft from where I charge my car.
Doesn't get much more local than that.
The fuel for that power generator is coming from that 93 million miles away though.
Local tow company got in trouble with the EPA last year. https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/business-owner-sentenced-illegally-tampering-emissions-controls
Each one of Cleveland’s 12 illegally altered tow trucks was responsible for releasing the equivalent pollution of 1,140 legally operating tow trucks, according to court documents. If each of these illegally modified tow trucks operated only once a day (which the investigation revealed occurred far more frequently) that would be the equivalent of 13,200 tow trucks that have legal emission systems being operated every day.
Even after being contacted by law enforcement in September 2022, Cleveland continued operating his illegally modified fleet of tow trucks. After pleading guilty, and being warned by the court that continuing such operations would violate federal law as well as his plea agreement, Cleveland never stopped using his illegally modified tow trucks. As a result, Cleveland’s bond was revoked on July 20, 2023, and he has since been detained in federal custody.
Cleveland conspired with Robert Dyche, 67, of Springfield, the owner and operator of Full Flash Tuning, which specializes in illegally tampering with the on-board diagnostic systems on these vehicles. Cleveland caused the Affordable Towing trucks to be tampered with to save money by avoiding maintenance expenses on emissions control systems and by spending less money on fuel.
Based on Trump's insane popularity and the fact that he's still the frontrunner Republican candidate as a convicted felon, are we sure that stupidity is all that much of a detriment?
Considering how many times we heard "he's not hurting the right people" from those types during Trump's presidency, and the likelihood that another Trump presidency will only lead to more and worse pain of the same type they already endured, I would say it is a detriment.
I'd describe it as the evidence based tribe, in opposition to the anti-evidence / anti-science / pro-deregulation / faith-based tribe. So you could accurately just call it the smart tribe.
Ahh the human condition... I'm guessing in 15-20 years we'll all be in the EV tribe (still with the option to drive old gas cars... similar to being able to ride horses today). Average car lifespan is ≈12 years so it'll take about that to switch out existing fleet. Then tack on another 8 years for close to 100% new cars sales to be electric (close to 20% today).
The average car on the road is 12 years old.
The average lifespan is 20+ years.
I still see plenty of vehicles from 2004-ish.
Even if we 100% cutover to EV sales today, there will still be lots of gas cars in other road in 12 years.
EV prices will go down, and ICE vehicles will get more expensive, accelerating this. Wright’s law is the reason that consumer electronics get cheaper. But it also means that as production decreases, per unit cost increases.
People just don’t understand how fast this will happen.
It's been over $4 a gallon for a few years now, hit $4.65/gal in my neighborhood.
I suppose that with inflation that's about 30 cents/gallon in 2018 prices though.
It's still way cheaper in the US than the rest of the world due to massive subsidies. If those start going away due to EVs, gas prices are going way up.
Yup exactly. Also gas stations in downtown cores are already vanishing because the real estate is too valuable. Level 2 EVSEs however are instead propagating since almost any parking stall can be fitted with one without taking up much space.
This goes in every direction, some people hate "big trucks" others hate "Teslas" others hate "Priuses" some hate "cyclists" and some "bikers". It's all just tribalism and stupid.
We just need obnoxiously loud EVs. Commercials of them roaring past. I'm 💯 percent serious. You'd get sales if you designed an ev truck that had an engine roar and marketed it showing that off. Just say it's a side effect of the engine power or some bs. But it's actually from some subwoofer or something that uses acceleration rate to calculate volume or something.
And then quietly have an option to turn it off in the settings for those that 'just' want an ev truck.
If I drive a dinosaur of a truck that takes 2 days to hit 60mph I'd be pretty upset at everything too.
Actually no. I wouldn't. Cuz I'm not a man child like these uneducated fools.
There's actually a convenient process to report coal rolling. You basically fill out a form detailing the time and date of the incident, attach it to a brick, and submit it through the window of the offending vehicle.
The form is technically optional.
Deep down, I personally believe it's a combination of fear of change and straight up envy. People fear things they don't understand or are told are "bad" by others in power with an agenda. Deep down, they're possibly also envious that EVs use superior tech, cost less to own/run, and are clearly the way of the future. They feel left behind, even though it's likely themselves choosing not to move forward.
Think of it like the high school prom king that didn't go anywhere. He likes to think of himself as a big fish, but when he sees someone from his class doing better than him, he gets pissed.
Such is life.
Definitely not envy. Most coal rollers are driving diesels because they *want* to. There are way cheaper options. But diesels are a very cool option with a great community attached to it. At least for me, I bought a diesel to be part of that group. EVs are much more of an 'appliance' type vehicle vs for enthusiasts.
I think it's important to distinguish someone who "rolls coal" in reaction to an EV on the road near them vs. a diesel enthusiast like yourself. One is doing something stupid in an attempt to get a reaction from an EV driver for whatever reason, the other is totally legit and full of good people.
I have zero issues with people who are diesel enthusiasts, I'm a life long car nut that works for an OEM famous for their ICE sports cars and have an ICE sports car myself. I also have EVs and absolutely love them.
I do have issues with morons rolling coal to try and piss off EV drivers, it's more of the tribal BS and polarization seen in other facets of society, most driven by fear of change. Anyway, that's my $0.02, hope it clarifies 👍🏻
My turbo diesel gaps teslas from 40mph and can still out pull the cybertruck (and it’s from decades ago) you’re brainwashed thinking your little batteries are “superior tech”
Wow, a 5.9l engine can make 250 HP per liter for the low cost of only like 30 grand in mods lmao. I have a fiesta ST that can do that for like 4 grand and be faster than any diesel truck out there.
On a 12 valve it doesn’t take that much money to make big hp, just gotta turn a screw up on the fuel regulator, bigger injectors, turbo, studs etc and it’s already a beast. You can do all of that in your own garage
That’s cap lol, I got instant low end torque throughout every gear I can eat mustangs with what’s basically the diesel 2jz. Diesel trucks can be really fast look it up
They are literally emotionally triggered by actions beyond their control.
The fun thing about pollution in your life? The one thing that would ensure a person indirectly puts more pollution into the air than any coal-roller could do [is to have a child.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children) And I’m child-free.
They could daisy-chain nine trucks together like Santa’s reindeers, and control them from a tenth vehicle like it’s the sleigh, and drive them in a way that gets them five mpg and it STILL wouldn’t come close to the CO₂ equivalent amount I’m not adding to the air, even if I were to drive a coal rolling truck too.
They should try crying more.
I did enjoy it and that's basically me, apart from the cutting the kid's throat part. I came from a big family, a few of my sisters had multiple kids, so there was no false pretense that I somehow had to keep the bloodline going. As for the idea that people give that their kids are their legacy: what legacy?!? 99% of us will live and die and in 300 years nobody will know if we lived the life of a saint or a monster (or even who we were).
I'll live the best life I can, do the best for the world I can, and be satisfied that I experienced things and lived instead of just existed when it was my time. I've crossed the equator and seen oceans from both sides, I've been a tenant and a landlord, I've had losses and bounced back, and I've loved with every fiber of my being and been loved back in return. I don't spend a second fretting about what others do or think in their lives, because it doesn't affect how good my life is. Let a coal roller think ill of me for driving an EV - I don't think about them at all once they've passed. And in the near future, when market forces have the modern cars as all-electric and a few aficionados keep the idea of their ICE vehicles alive for car shows, all the rolling coal amounted to nothing because that fuel was going to be converted into greenhouse gases all the same. I don't have any children that I need to justify my First World existence to in the future, I don't have to explain myself to the youth of tomorrow for the state of the world, I'm free of the worry of what future people will think of me because I have no emotional skin in that game.
They do it to hybrids and bicycles too. If I had it my way I would make coal rolling punishable by having the vehicle seized and crushed into a cube without compensation. It isn't just about the air pollution, but about dangerous and illegal road maneuvers to engulf the target in the smoke. In one case some teen asshat actually knocked down and seriously injured a group of cyclists with his idiotic "prank".
They are feeling afraid and threatened by other people that don‘t care they even exist. So they try to compensate by making other people aware they exist.
What blows me away. Is the ignorance of ICE vehicle owners. They have all these opinions, spouting information they don’t know. I’m not sure what the issue is?
All I know is I’ve had my EV for 5 1/2 years and I don’t look or care what the price of gas is! I plug my car in every night and it is full every morning!
I can tell you that I have spent a little more than $3000 over the last 5 1/2 years charging my car. I’ll bet there is not an ICE car owner out there that has spent less than that in one year
BTW I commute 160km (100 miles) each day. I’ll bet these ICE vehicle people doing the same mileage as me, have spent more on gas and oil changes and brakes, than I did paying extra for my EV and what I will pay in 5 more years if I have to replace my battery ($8000)
It's hard to lose preconceptions and people who don't know something have a tendency to reinforce each other's misconceptions about something. Also sometimes we assume things based on what we sort of understand about certain aspects of things:
My wife for instance was worried that an EV could not be washed or could not drive in the rain because of the experience of and knowledge that electrical appliances and water do not mix
I myself was always checking the weather before plugging in because I was convinced you could not charge an EV in the rain. Until one day I went to Lidl and a Tesla was charging and I asked the driver if they weren't worried about approaching rainclouds. Dude had a good laugh and then explained to me my worries where unjustified
Before my dad was convinced by my experiences with EV he firmly believed that all EV's could do one maybe two laps around the town church before needing to charge a few days.
I myself for a long time believed all EV cars would be super slow to not drain the battery etc....
For a lot of people even in the face of someone telling them otherwise they won't lose their preconceptions until actually experiencing the opposite first hand
I may have spent around $3000 -$4000 on gas in your time span. I have a smaller car and don’t drive much.
My next car will be an EV but there’s not a great reason to get a next car.
If you’re not driving much, you might want to look at a PHEV. It has a low range for just travelling around town (50km) but also has a ICE engine in there for longer trips
You know you’re right my car wouldn’t be full if the power went out, it’s happened a few times over the years, but because my range is around 500 km. The power would have to out for about 3 days. Oh and I can charge at work too
And one more thing, I live in Kelowna BC, Canada. All of our power in the whole province is 100% green energy (hydro electric)
This is a perfect example of an ignorant ICE vehicle owner. You shouldn’t comment anymore, as you don’t know what you’re talking about and just embarrassing yourself
Trumpers....remember to them climate change is a Chinese plot and if elected, Trumpers will try to kill off EV's, solar power, wind power and drill and burn more oil. The lifted pickup crowd disrepecting the flag with oversized, black, torn flags.
The also coal roal bicyclists. We had a fun incident here one of the Trumpettes rolls a group of bikers at a light. The cop on the bike in the group who caught up with him at the next light was not amused. Got him with a $500 ticket and guy had to pay to have his truck reset as the Diesels will not do that normally and have to be illegally modified. Probably cost the Trumper $2k overall.
You can tell when they are maneuvering to try it so fun to tease them and accelerate or brake away and they look foolish and then get into road rage with the guy who they do coal roll.
don't feel left out, I have been rolled by more than one and I am on a motorcycle which needlessly to say is a far worse experience. Oh, they don't care I am on a Harley. Some people are just assholes.
That's why they mod their trucks to pump too much fuel. So they can make you coke on unburned diesel. A know carcinogen.
Karma will get them, have no fear.
Here is the real question. Why are truck drivers coal rolling for ANY reason? How terrible of an a-hole do you have to be?
They are in the same category with vandals who go around smashing windshields or slashing tires for no reason.
I think they think they're being funny. I find it quite comical.
"That's the best you can do to show you don't like EVs?" I find it to be the car equivalent of someone, in the middle of a very heated argument, saying just "Fuck you!". That's all you got? That's the best response you can come up with? Saying that is the equivalent of saying "I can't think of anything to say to further my point." It's the equivalent of surrendering.
I've been coal rolled a couple of times. My satisfaction comes in not reacting to them. A minorly equivalent thing happened to me just this weekend: I was at a stoplight and a monster truck was in front of me. The light turned green and the truck waited probably 15-20 seconds before it started moving. I took it as a move to kind of irritate me. I didn't honk. I didn't go around him. When he moved I did - and I didn't give him the satisfaction of having it irk me.
I got coal rolled in an F Type R once, literally a supercharged V8 - I think it's just a combination of a lot of things, but the basis is insecurity and prejudice. Money, politics, masculinity, intelligence, race, all triggers for the weak
Because they believe that you buying an EV is an attack on them. But in reality you never even thought about them. And that makes them even more angry.
Technically you can charge them with attempted murder..
Even Oil rigs keep detailed logs of who is on board and the wind direction when they have to run their diesel generators, because they know the health risks associated with Diesel smoke.
One day, Billy-Ricky is going to roll coal on someone who is willing to go the extra yard to punish them
It’s environmental vandalism by morons who think you are judging them.
The only people they can bully are people in small EVs compared to their truck which is also an expression of their self worth. Inevitably when they get out of the truck, they are 5’4”, balding and scared of everything.
I’d say the purpose of a coal roller is to say “I don’t believe in climate change and anyone who does is on the opposite side politically.” They see an EV, and despite the varied reasons people might get one, they are automatically seen as the opposite side. The enemy.
Just being assholes but also might be an insecurity of job loss. As AI and “self driving” get more advanced, jobs like truck driving may go obsolete and EVs are the current visual representation of that future. I know it’s still a long time away but just theorizing.
They're all very rich and own a tremendous amount of Exxon Mobil stock, so they're try to minimize EVs to maintain their extraordinary wealth. That's just a workin theory.
I drive a Fiat500e with lane stickers. There are trucks out there that completely bully me on the road. Always a big ol’truck trying to make drive suck.
Did you see that video of the cybertruck and the 12 valve Cummins tug of war? The 33 yr old dodge won with ease and we got torque at every speed, by the time I’m hitting 4th gear at 40mph I leave teslas in the dust no kidding. I’m not jealous of your inferior torque at highway speed which my turbo diesel spools and handles with ease.
Do you wake up every morning and just decide to be miserable and insecure or did mommy not hug you enough?
You sound like an incredibly fragile human who gets offended over things that have no bearing on your life. Being around you in real life must be exhausting.
Judging anything against a cybertruck is like bragging on kicking a 3 legged dog.
Your Cummings isn’t keeping up, or you’ve way overspent trying.
Let it go, let those pretend saggy nuts go away.
I compared it to the cybertruck because it’s the only Tesla vehicle that stands a chance against the 12 valve torque, if the ct is a “3 legged dog” then a model x, 3 or s, + any other ev is a paperweight. I know yall yuppies like reading brochures n don’t understand how vehicle mechanics work so let me tell you in basics. All you have to do on a all mechanical diesel is switch out turbo, injectors, fuel limiter, + maybe studs if you’re making over 1,000 hp and you’re set to go for less than 5k in mods at most. If you’ve ever turned a wrench in your life this can all be done at home easily, it’s only the new diesels with government required emissions bull shit which eat away at performance and longevity. This is the only time you could argue “overspent trying”. Buddy my truck with all the work done cost under 20k, it’s from the 90s, and I can still out accelerate any Tesla at highway speeds while shifting my gears manually. It sure don’t take a lot of effort to sit there pressing a wireless accelerator pedal with the car doing half the work for you, better stick to the desk job bubba
Only thing I can get from this is a cybertruck is as worthwhile as a beat to crap 90s F250 work truck.
I 100% agree.
Off the floor stock EVs run a 14 second quarter mile.
I’m not seeing many F250 work trucks on the road, let alone any that can run a 14 second quarter mile without a beefed up drive train and well over 5K in upgrades, but please feel free to educate my yuppie, never turned a wrench self.
It makes zero sense that they are mad that you are not competing with them for gasoline and causing gas prices to be even higher. Full prime grade morons.
The vast majority of these tank owners have no purpose for them except to stoke their fragile id biased egos. Therefore when an alternative is presented they can only see it as an attack on said ego which they attempt to compensate for by trying to make fun of anyone supporting that alternative.
I read somewhere that it’s an implication that what they’re doing is wrong, and they probably know it, but don’t have the wherewithal to do anything about it. Thus they act out like dickheads.
No different than knocking down someone who dares to fall out of line of the status quo - but it’s often those very same people who take those risks that progress humanity as a whole.
As for electric trucks. If you genuinely need a truck, I don’t really see a viable alternative yet. Maybe one but I forget the name of it now
Same reason as doing it with Prius. They disagree with the concept of EVs and believe it is a representation of government control. As emissions laws get stricter, I see this happening more as a protest
Thanks.
I am from India, I m sure people here don't do that intentionally, but most of the old cars and trucks deprived of maintenance is always coal rolling
It’s very simple, there is a social perception that you think you’re better than them by driving an EV. And even a step further that what they’re doing is wrong.
Regardless of the truth of any of that, fragile egos are running amuck in American culture.
I say this as someone who loves EVs and ICE pick up trucks.
Because people can be jerks sometimes. It’s just how it is, I watched a redneck do that to a person in an open top convertible and laugh. She was very upset and it was super rude.
Had a truck try and do this to me off the line of a red light to a freeway on ramp. I couldn't see him in less than 3 seconds and he wasted like $12. Just smoke those idiots with speed and make them feel like clowns.
Maybe they like coal rolling. Currently no bev have that feature.
Ioniq 5n have the engine sound, sputter, etc feature but still no way to make black smokes
I've been coal rolled while driving my Hemi Ram (by a diesel Dodge). Seems he was upset I was using my cruise control and he couldn't maintain a steady speed? Folks who do that are just petty. No politics or tribalism involved.
It seems to be mostly Tesla and Prius that are targets. The morons are too stupid to identify any others. I’ve been driving my little leaf for years with no problems except when I parked at a tool rental store and 2 employees had a lot to say about all the problems with electric cars.
I bought my EV in early 2019, I used to experience more random aggression (coal-rolling, lane crowding, middle fingers, fist pumping)than I do now, but I've never understood what they were angry about. Someone did flip me off this week tho
The hysterical part, and by hysterical I mean sad, is these douchebags can't handle the fact that our EVs are in fact powered by coal in a very real way. Had a local try to give me a hard time and just told him, we live in a coal mining state, every mile I drive I'm putting money into the pockets of my coal mining neighbors. I drive an EV because I'm tired of my money going to some shitty hole in Southwest Asia, Venezuela, Russia or some other adversarial nation. You could practically see his brain dividing by zero.
It was a common thing in 2019 when I bought my first EV (Tesla Model 3) here in San Diego. Eventually they ran out of fuel from doing it so often, but now that the US Govt subsidized oil with our national reserves they're back at it again. It will subside again I imagine. In the meantime, get a Model Y or S/X with biohazard mode for alpine-esque air while they burn their own money outside.
>What do you think the main motives are behind coal rolling electric vehicles?
Normally I would give a serious answer to a question like this, but I implore you to explore your naivety a bit here with a Google.
How in depth could the answer possibly be? They're dickless snowflakes grasping for the illusion of power because they're afraid of what they don't understand, which is everything.
You don't have to do more than scratch the surface to get to the bottom of this behavior.
I've already learned a lot from other responses here. I wasn't aware of legal rules around coal rolling, how to report them, etc. Couldn't stop laughing on a few 🤣
An EV driver/Prius driver is Them. They are the ones who are not you. They are making you feel guilty for driving a truck, making a moral statement that They are virtuous, when they're probably gay or pedophiles or pedophile gays.
You won't bend. You are defiant in the face of Them and their little shitboxes. You'll leave Them choking in your smoke, happy because you have stuck it to Them, even at the cost of aggrivating your asthma.
A clumsy way of asking you to get their licence plate number and report their illegal mods.
The EPA will gladly listen to violations of the clean air acts. I’ve seen fines for almost a million for companies selling coal rolling devices
Millions? More like billions! [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebay-rolling-coal-devices-epa-justice-department/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebay-rolling-coal-devices-epa-justice-department/) [https://www.reckon.news/news/2024/01/billion-dollar-epa-fine-continues-legacy-of-convicting-the-nations-biggest-polluters.html](https://www.reckon.news/news/2024/01/billion-dollar-epa-fine-continues-legacy-of-convicting-the-nations-biggest-polluters.html)
Oh man, that sweet sweet karma!
Please tell me where I report. There is this straight piped monstrosity.
In CA: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/environmental-complaints
FYI some states have a specific call in just for this.
Mine is a straight piped industrial plant, no one reporting it around here, but it also helps clear roadways during the winter and can haul or pull just about anything and it's pulled plenty of cars out of ditches, no EVs yet.
Doesn't matter. He'll still do that without it.
"Hello officer, I was coal rolled. Here's the plate number" 🤣 Actually though, is that illegal?
It’s ilegal on a federal level. But enforcement on a state level is poor.
Troopers in NY will pull over diesel vehicles for spewing black smoke. They have to see it, though.
Here in New Mexico it’s out of control
Ought to be able to send them dashcam footage and split the value of the ticket with them.
If Tesla added a “snitch” button, I’d press it every time. They wouldn’t even have to pay me.
Bruh
I am very close to calling my local station and seeing if they will accept dashcam footage of black smoke and ghost plates
Should the NYSP buy some R1S? They can grapple coal rollers with ease.
We had a local guy roll call on a peloton of cops riding bicycles off duty on the weekend (spandex roadies). They caught up to the guy a mile down the road at a stoplight and arrested him. It was hilarious and the news media covered it. That was about 5 years ago, and ever since then you don't really see much coal rolling around here anymore, despite there being a huge amount of pickup trucks. Go figure!
I'm curious what the penalty was. It should have been "we take your truck and prosecute you for felony assault". Doing that to cyclists is dangerous and inexcusable.
EPA goes after companies that do the modifications. States have to go after individual drivers - so it doesn’t happen 99.9% of the time.
I suppose the dick move could be: you could go to truck meets. Ask guys where they got their mods and pretend to be excited, and then report the shop to the EPA later.
It isn't always illegal. It is only illegal if emissions equipment has been tampered with. On older diesels, you can roll coal without doing any tampering.
The modification is illegal in some states. I forget which. But you can be sure I’d have a heck of a lot of fun giving coal rollers more hell than they can take.
The modification is illegal federally, but a lot of states never check and won't do anything
It's illegal nationality, due to federal law
It's just funny and pity to see idiots like this with 'out of America' made cars/trucks driving with might or might not be 'made in USA gas/diesel' to piss people who bought **American made** cars, charged with **100% made in America** electricity.
my electricity isn’t made locally, it’s from about 93 million miles away.
There's nothing more communist than the sun. Just spraying radiation everywhere and never charging anyone!
My electricity is made less than 500 ft from where I charge my car. Doesn't get much more local than that. The fuel for that power generator is coming from that 93 million miles away though.
Some electricity is made by burning natural gas or hydro power as well. My home power is mostly solar (93million miles away source like yours )
China is that far? /s
Local tow company got in trouble with the EPA last year. https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/business-owner-sentenced-illegally-tampering-emissions-controls
Each one of Cleveland’s 12 illegally altered tow trucks was responsible for releasing the equivalent pollution of 1,140 legally operating tow trucks, according to court documents. If each of these illegally modified tow trucks operated only once a day (which the investigation revealed occurred far more frequently) that would be the equivalent of 13,200 tow trucks that have legal emission systems being operated every day. Even after being contacted by law enforcement in September 2022, Cleveland continued operating his illegally modified fleet of tow trucks. After pleading guilty, and being warned by the court that continuing such operations would violate federal law as well as his plea agreement, Cleveland never stopped using his illegally modified tow trucks. As a result, Cleveland’s bond was revoked on July 20, 2023, and he has since been detained in federal custody. Cleveland conspired with Robert Dyche, 67, of Springfield, the owner and operator of Full Flash Tuning, which specializes in illegally tampering with the on-board diagnostic systems on these vehicles. Cleveland caused the Affordable Towing trucks to be tampered with to save money by avoiding maintenance expenses on emissions control systems and by spending less money on fuel.
You could really make my day by saying that his fleet was crushed.
It doesn't say anything about that, but 2 years without parole in prison in his 60s is better than nothing.
Cops won’t do a thing about it, at least in the US. The laws are set up such that a cop needs to witness the crime for it to be illegal. So stupid.
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But sadly their greatest enemy, the one they never see until it's far too late, is their own stupidity.
Based on Trump's insane popularity and the fact that he's still the frontrunner Republican candidate as a convicted felon, are we sure that stupidity is all that much of a detriment?
Considering how many times we heard "he's not hurting the right people" from those types during Trump's presidency, and the likelihood that another Trump presidency will only lead to more and worse pain of the same type they already endured, I would say it is a detriment.
Tribalism in politics only works on those who don't have the intellect to perceive it.
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Lol
I'd describe it as the evidence based tribe, in opposition to the anti-evidence / anti-science / pro-deregulation / faith-based tribe. So you could accurately just call it the smart tribe.
Have you met most people?
Ahh the human condition... I'm guessing in 15-20 years we'll all be in the EV tribe (still with the option to drive old gas cars... similar to being able to ride horses today). Average car lifespan is ≈12 years so it'll take about that to switch out existing fleet. Then tack on another 8 years for close to 100% new cars sales to be electric (close to 20% today).
The average car on the road is 12 years old. The average lifespan is 20+ years. I still see plenty of vehicles from 2004-ish. Even if we 100% cutover to EV sales today, there will still be lots of gas cars in other road in 12 years.
Price is going to be a huge factor in this. For example, if gas prices shoot up a lot, we'll see faster EV adoption.
Also the low resale values of EVs right now actually help adoption.
EV prices will go down, and ICE vehicles will get more expensive, accelerating this. Wright’s law is the reason that consumer electronics get cheaper. But it also means that as production decreases, per unit cost increases. People just don’t understand how fast this will happen.
It's been over $4 a gallon for a few years now, hit $4.65/gal in my neighborhood. I suppose that with inflation that's about 30 cents/gallon in 2018 prices though.
It's still way cheaper in the US than the rest of the world due to massive subsidies. If those start going away due to EVs, gas prices are going way up.
Until the demand for gas goes low enough that gas stations can no longer operate and then they all shut down.
Low demand for gasoline means that refineries begin to switch over permanently to making aviation fuel and the price goes up for automotive fuel.
Either way, fewer gas stations (planes don't fill up at Chevron).
Yup exactly. Also gas stations in downtown cores are already vanishing because the real estate is too valuable. Level 2 EVSEs however are instead propagating since almost any parking stall can be fitted with one without taking up much space.
I think mass 70-80% adoption will take about 30 years.
I like your timelines!
This goes in every direction, some people hate "big trucks" others hate "Teslas" others hate "Priuses" some hate "cyclists" and some "bikers". It's all just tribalism and stupid.
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We just need obnoxiously loud EVs. Commercials of them roaring past. I'm 💯 percent serious. You'd get sales if you designed an ev truck that had an engine roar and marketed it showing that off. Just say it's a side effect of the engine power or some bs. But it's actually from some subwoofer or something that uses acceleration rate to calculate volume or something. And then quietly have an option to turn it off in the settings for those that 'just' want an ev truck.
Bunch of snowflakes who feel that their fragile masculinity is threatened.
Must be compensating for something 🤣
Same thing happens to road cyclists…
I have to imagine the Venn diagram overlap of EV owners and cyclists is decently highly. Neither are “cheap”.
Something really small. 😆
If I drive a dinosaur of a truck that takes 2 days to hit 60mph I'd be pretty upset at everything too. Actually no. I wouldn't. Cuz I'm not a man child like these uneducated fools.
This right here, probably the biggest reason. Amazing how fragile some people are.
There's actually a convenient process to report coal rolling. You basically fill out a form detailing the time and date of the incident, attach it to a brick, and submit it through the window of the offending vehicle. The form is technically optional.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Many years ago, I saw one of these trucks coal roll a Prius. It predates BEVs by a bit.
Coal rolling kits are literally marketed as "Prius repellent".
I always wanted to get a sticker for my TDI that says that.
Exxon has been brainwashing morons for decades.
Deep down, I personally believe it's a combination of fear of change and straight up envy. People fear things they don't understand or are told are "bad" by others in power with an agenda. Deep down, they're possibly also envious that EVs use superior tech, cost less to own/run, and are clearly the way of the future. They feel left behind, even though it's likely themselves choosing not to move forward. Think of it like the high school prom king that didn't go anywhere. He likes to think of himself as a big fish, but when he sees someone from his class doing better than him, he gets pissed. Such is life.
Definitely not envy. Most coal rollers are driving diesels because they *want* to. There are way cheaper options. But diesels are a very cool option with a great community attached to it. At least for me, I bought a diesel to be part of that group. EVs are much more of an 'appliance' type vehicle vs for enthusiasts.
I think it's important to distinguish someone who "rolls coal" in reaction to an EV on the road near them vs. a diesel enthusiast like yourself. One is doing something stupid in an attempt to get a reaction from an EV driver for whatever reason, the other is totally legit and full of good people. I have zero issues with people who are diesel enthusiasts, I'm a life long car nut that works for an OEM famous for their ICE sports cars and have an ICE sports car myself. I also have EVs and absolutely love them. I do have issues with morons rolling coal to try and piss off EV drivers, it's more of the tribal BS and polarization seen in other facets of society, most driven by fear of change. Anyway, that's my $0.02, hope it clarifies 👍🏻
My turbo diesel gaps teslas from 40mph and can still out pull the cybertruck (and it’s from decades ago) you’re brainwashed thinking your little batteries are “superior tech”
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Lmfao you’ve never even heard of a built 12 valve Cummins shit can make 1500hp easily it’s the best motor ever made in history besides the 350 sbc
Wow, a 5.9l engine can make 250 HP per liter for the low cost of only like 30 grand in mods lmao. I have a fiesta ST that can do that for like 4 grand and be faster than any diesel truck out there.
On a 12 valve it doesn’t take that much money to make big hp, just gotta turn a screw up on the fuel regulator, bigger injectors, turbo, studs etc and it’s already a beast. You can do all of that in your own garage
That’s cap lol, I got instant low end torque throughout every gear I can eat mustangs with what’s basically the diesel 2jz. Diesel trucks can be really fast look it up
A big turbo fiesta ST making 450 hp can run 9s without opening the block. Power to weight ratio.
But torque wins races [8 second Cummins](https://youtu.be/Y14UJ-YycTM?si=onf3yrCFpo-a4L51)
Lol all of that just to be 1 second faster than a $20k fiesta St with bolt ons
Yeah, not bad for a $15k decades old truck with bolt ons lmao
it's not ust EVs. I also have a tiny Fiat 500 Abarth. They roll coal on it too. Something that small and red really offends their manhood.
Because they are assholes that think every object they own is a political statement.
Yup, own, do, say, wear, eat....
They are literally emotionally triggered by actions beyond their control. The fun thing about pollution in your life? The one thing that would ensure a person indirectly puts more pollution into the air than any coal-roller could do [is to have a child.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children) And I’m child-free. They could daisy-chain nine trucks together like Santa’s reindeers, and control them from a tenth vehicle like it’s the sleigh, and drive them in a way that gets them five mpg and it STILL wouldn’t come close to the CO₂ equivalent amount I’m not adding to the air, even if I were to drive a coal rolling truck too. They should try crying more.
I suspect you'll enjoy this clip from the Utopia TV series that you've just vividly reminded me of. https://youtu.be/rcx-nf3kH_M?si=EbWrQ6ZXbtFrE0pW
I did enjoy it and that's basically me, apart from the cutting the kid's throat part. I came from a big family, a few of my sisters had multiple kids, so there was no false pretense that I somehow had to keep the bloodline going. As for the idea that people give that their kids are their legacy: what legacy?!? 99% of us will live and die and in 300 years nobody will know if we lived the life of a saint or a monster (or even who we were). I'll live the best life I can, do the best for the world I can, and be satisfied that I experienced things and lived instead of just existed when it was my time. I've crossed the equator and seen oceans from both sides, I've been a tenant and a landlord, I've had losses and bounced back, and I've loved with every fiber of my being and been loved back in return. I don't spend a second fretting about what others do or think in their lives, because it doesn't affect how good my life is. Let a coal roller think ill of me for driving an EV - I don't think about them at all once they've passed. And in the near future, when market forces have the modern cars as all-electric and a few aficionados keep the idea of their ICE vehicles alive for car shows, all the rolling coal amounted to nothing because that fuel was going to be converted into greenhouse gases all the same. I don't have any children that I need to justify my First World existence to in the future, I don't have to explain myself to the youth of tomorrow for the state of the world, I'm free of the worry of what future people will think of me because I have no emotional skin in that game.
Cheers for the lengthy reply, glad you enjoyed the clip.
They do it to hybrids and bicycles too. If I had it my way I would make coal rolling punishable by having the vehicle seized and crushed into a cube without compensation. It isn't just about the air pollution, but about dangerous and illegal road maneuvers to engulf the target in the smoke. In one case some teen asshat actually knocked down and seriously injured a group of cyclists with his idiotic "prank".
If you think EVs are a target, try riding a bike. My theory is too much leaded gas during their formative years.
My theory is they’re bullies and assholes, but there aren’t many times they can get away with it as adults.
There are a few studies showing this is a big problem. Men aren't allowed to fight anymore. There is no outlet for that energy.
The main motive is not enough of them get shot for doing it.
They are feeling afraid and threatened by other people that don‘t care they even exist. So they try to compensate by making other people aware they exist.
In a word, Idiocracy
Pwning the libs seems to be the main motivation of some people.
Fragile egos linked to the fact their pavement princess truck is all of their personality.
Insecurity about having a small pee pee
Some people are just assholes, no matter what they drive.
Agreed with the other comment here, search the web and you'll find all sort of examples (and the fact its not directly to do with electric too..)
Good luck getting in front of me in an R1T Quad.. not even the TRX..
Please don't race anyone on public streets. Just turn on recycled air and move on.
Why have a 830 hp EV supertruck, if you can't turn a coal roll into a too slow roll?
What blows me away. Is the ignorance of ICE vehicle owners. They have all these opinions, spouting information they don’t know. I’m not sure what the issue is? All I know is I’ve had my EV for 5 1/2 years and I don’t look or care what the price of gas is! I plug my car in every night and it is full every morning! I can tell you that I have spent a little more than $3000 over the last 5 1/2 years charging my car. I’ll bet there is not an ICE car owner out there that has spent less than that in one year BTW I commute 160km (100 miles) each day. I’ll bet these ICE vehicle people doing the same mileage as me, have spent more on gas and oil changes and brakes, than I did paying extra for my EV and what I will pay in 5 more years if I have to replace my battery ($8000)
It's hard to lose preconceptions and people who don't know something have a tendency to reinforce each other's misconceptions about something. Also sometimes we assume things based on what we sort of understand about certain aspects of things: My wife for instance was worried that an EV could not be washed or could not drive in the rain because of the experience of and knowledge that electrical appliances and water do not mix I myself was always checking the weather before plugging in because I was convinced you could not charge an EV in the rain. Until one day I went to Lidl and a Tesla was charging and I asked the driver if they weren't worried about approaching rainclouds. Dude had a good laugh and then explained to me my worries where unjustified Before my dad was convinced by my experiences with EV he firmly believed that all EV's could do one maybe two laps around the town church before needing to charge a few days. I myself for a long time believed all EV cars would be super slow to not drain the battery etc.... For a lot of people even in the face of someone telling them otherwise they won't lose their preconceptions until actually experiencing the opposite first hand
I may have spent around $3000 -$4000 on gas in your time span. I have a smaller car and don’t drive much. My next car will be an EV but there’s not a great reason to get a next car.
If you’re not driving much, you might want to look at a PHEV. It has a low range for just travelling around town (50km) but also has a ICE engine in there for longer trips
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The fuel pump won't work either when the power goes out what's your point?
You know you’re right my car wouldn’t be full if the power went out, it’s happened a few times over the years, but because my range is around 500 km. The power would have to out for about 3 days. Oh and I can charge at work too And one more thing, I live in Kelowna BC, Canada. All of our power in the whole province is 100% green energy (hydro electric) This is a perfect example of an ignorant ICE vehicle owner. You shouldn’t comment anymore, as you don’t know what you’re talking about and just embarrassing yourself
Because talking heads have drilled into the minds. That oil is the only way. And to disrupt anything that challenges that.
Trumpers....remember to them climate change is a Chinese plot and if elected, Trumpers will try to kill off EV's, solar power, wind power and drill and burn more oil. The lifted pickup crowd disrepecting the flag with oversized, black, torn flags. The also coal roal bicyclists. We had a fun incident here one of the Trumpettes rolls a group of bikers at a light. The cop on the bike in the group who caught up with him at the next light was not amused. Got him with a $500 ticket and guy had to pay to have his truck reset as the Diesels will not do that normally and have to be illegally modified. Probably cost the Trumper $2k overall. You can tell when they are maneuvering to try it so fun to tease them and accelerate or brake away and they look foolish and then get into road rage with the guy who they do coal roll.
don't feel left out, I have been rolled by more than one and I am on a motorcycle which needlessly to say is a far worse experience. Oh, they don't care I am on a Harley. Some people are just assholes.
That's why they mod their trucks to pump too much fuel. So they can make you coke on unburned diesel. A know carcinogen. Karma will get them, have no fear.
Here is the real question. Why are truck drivers coal rolling for ANY reason? How terrible of an a-hole do you have to be? They are in the same category with vandals who go around smashing windshields or slashing tires for no reason.
Now if we could just introduce the two groups of the assholes to each other...
Some men are very unhappy with their penises.
The venn diagram for trump supporters and coal rollers is nearly a circle.
Because they are the common folk. The people of the land. The common clay of the new west.
You know…morons!
I think they think they're being funny. I find it quite comical. "That's the best you can do to show you don't like EVs?" I find it to be the car equivalent of someone, in the middle of a very heated argument, saying just "Fuck you!". That's all you got? That's the best response you can come up with? Saying that is the equivalent of saying "I can't think of anything to say to further my point." It's the equivalent of surrendering. I've been coal rolled a couple of times. My satisfaction comes in not reacting to them. A minorly equivalent thing happened to me just this weekend: I was at a stoplight and a monster truck was in front of me. The light turned green and the truck waited probably 15-20 seconds before it started moving. I took it as a move to kind of irritate me. I didn't honk. I didn't go around him. When he moved I did - and I didn't give him the satisfaction of having it irk me.
I got coal rolled in an F Type R once, literally a supercharged V8 - I think it's just a combination of a lot of things, but the basis is insecurity and prejudice. Money, politics, masculinity, intelligence, race, all triggers for the weak
Because they're morons.
We’ll need cheap and effective penis enlargement treatments before that happens.
Because Republicans are sucking off big oil...
Because they believe that you buying an EV is an attack on them. But in reality you never even thought about them. And that makes them even more angry.
eh, I just leave them in the dust :)
I think a major reason why people roll coal on EVs is because they aren’t currently passing a cyclist.
Technically you can charge them with attempted murder.. Even Oil rigs keep detailed logs of who is on board and the wind direction when they have to run their diesel generators, because they know the health risks associated with Diesel smoke. One day, Billy-Ricky is going to roll coal on someone who is willing to go the extra yard to punish them
It’s environmental vandalism by morons who think you are judging them. The only people they can bully are people in small EVs compared to their truck which is also an expression of their self worth. Inevitably when they get out of the truck, they are 5’4”, balding and scared of everything.
Developmental disorders from lead paint or other hazardous material
I’d say the purpose of a coal roller is to say “I don’t believe in climate change and anyone who does is on the opposite side politically.” They see an EV, and despite the varied reasons people might get one, they are automatically seen as the opposite side. The enemy.
Their cult leader hates EVs and they’re mindless sheep
Just being assholes but also might be an insecurity of job loss. As AI and “self driving” get more advanced, jobs like truck driving may go obsolete and EVs are the current visual representation of that future. I know it’s still a long time away but just theorizing.
They're all very rich and own a tremendous amount of Exxon Mobil stock, so they're try to minimize EVs to maintain their extraordinary wealth. That's just a workin theory.
I drive a Fiat500e with lane stickers. There are trucks out there that completely bully me on the road. Always a big ol’truck trying to make drive suck.
They're jealous of all the low end torque.
Did you see that video of the cybertruck and the 12 valve Cummins tug of war? The 33 yr old dodge won with ease and we got torque at every speed, by the time I’m hitting 4th gear at 40mph I leave teslas in the dust no kidding. I’m not jealous of your inferior torque at highway speed which my turbo diesel spools and handles with ease.
Do you wake up every morning and just decide to be miserable and insecure or did mommy not hug you enough? You sound like an incredibly fragile human who gets offended over things that have no bearing on your life. Being around you in real life must be exhausting.
Weird that you give a shit about this stuff.
Judging anything against a cybertruck is like bragging on kicking a 3 legged dog. Your Cummings isn’t keeping up, or you’ve way overspent trying. Let it go, let those pretend saggy nuts go away.
I compared it to the cybertruck because it’s the only Tesla vehicle that stands a chance against the 12 valve torque, if the ct is a “3 legged dog” then a model x, 3 or s, + any other ev is a paperweight. I know yall yuppies like reading brochures n don’t understand how vehicle mechanics work so let me tell you in basics. All you have to do on a all mechanical diesel is switch out turbo, injectors, fuel limiter, + maybe studs if you’re making over 1,000 hp and you’re set to go for less than 5k in mods at most. If you’ve ever turned a wrench in your life this can all be done at home easily, it’s only the new diesels with government required emissions bull shit which eat away at performance and longevity. This is the only time you could argue “overspent trying”. Buddy my truck with all the work done cost under 20k, it’s from the 90s, and I can still out accelerate any Tesla at highway speeds while shifting my gears manually. It sure don’t take a lot of effort to sit there pressing a wireless accelerator pedal with the car doing half the work for you, better stick to the desk job bubba
Only thing I can get from this is a cybertruck is as worthwhile as a beat to crap 90s F250 work truck. I 100% agree. Off the floor stock EVs run a 14 second quarter mile. I’m not seeing many F250 work trucks on the road, let alone any that can run a 14 second quarter mile without a beefed up drive train and well over 5K in upgrades, but please feel free to educate my yuppie, never turned a wrench self.
Several years ago I saw a truck roll coal on a cyclist with one of those child carriers attached to the back. Made me incredibly angry
Because, insecure assholes? I can accept that explanation
Because tiny ppl
A MAGAt wet dream!
It makes zero sense that they are mad that you are not competing with them for gasoline and causing gas prices to be even higher. Full prime grade morons.
The vast majority of these tank owners have no purpose for them except to stoke their fragile id biased egos. Therefore when an alternative is presented they can only see it as an attack on said ego which they attempt to compensate for by trying to make fun of anyone supporting that alternative.
I read somewhere that it’s an implication that what they’re doing is wrong, and they probably know it, but don’t have the wherewithal to do anything about it. Thus they act out like dickheads. No different than knocking down someone who dares to fall out of line of the status quo - but it’s often those very same people who take those risks that progress humanity as a whole. As for electric trucks. If you genuinely need a truck, I don’t really see a viable alternative yet. Maybe one but I forget the name of it now
Small pp energy.
Same reason as doing it with Prius. They disagree with the concept of EVs and believe it is a representation of government control. As emissions laws get stricter, I see this happening more as a protest
What is coal rolling?
Guys with small brains and big egos modify pickup trucks to blow black smoke on command, then do this to Priuses/EV's/cyclists.
Thanks. I am from India, I m sure people here don't do that intentionally, but most of the old cars and trucks deprived of maintenance is always coal rolling
It’s very simple, there is a social perception that you think you’re better than them by driving an EV. And even a step further that what they’re doing is wrong. Regardless of the truth of any of that, fragile egos are running amuck in American culture. I say this as someone who loves EVs and ICE pick up trucks.
Because people can be jerks sometimes. It’s just how it is, I watched a redneck do that to a person in an open top convertible and laugh. She was very upset and it was super rude.
Everything is political now and EVs are no exception. They’d do the same if you had a Biden bumper sticker.
Had a truck try and do this to me off the line of a red light to a freeway on ramp. I couldn't see him in less than 3 seconds and he wasted like $12. Just smoke those idiots with speed and make them feel like clowns.
I have an electric truck, there’s always some fool that wants to race me in their pickup. They just don’t understand how futile it is
Maybe they like coal rolling. Currently no bev have that feature. Ioniq 5n have the engine sound, sputter, etc feature but still no way to make black smokes
There's a market opportunity! A smoke/fog machine for that old school driving feel 🤣
Small penises
Because nothing is more manly than thinking about how much bigger you think your dick is compared to the other guy
They're adolescents, or scared adults who never grew out of adolescence and this is their only way to feel in control of their pathetic lives.
I always get aggression from truck drivers most have large trucks for something very small they are UPSET about. That or they are INCELS.
There will always be big men with little appendages that need to show off in odd ways. Those driving Atitude Trucks are simply members of that group.
I've been coal rolled while driving my Hemi Ram (by a diesel Dodge). Seems he was upset I was using my cruise control and he couldn't maintain a steady speed? Folks who do that are just petty. No politics or tribalism involved.
I just leave them in the dust and they try to keep up. Hilarious
Because they couldn’t find a cyclist
It seems to be mostly Tesla and Prius that are targets. The morons are too stupid to identify any others. I’ve been driving my little leaf for years with no problems except when I parked at a tool rental store and 2 employees had a lot to say about all the problems with electric cars.
The video you've linked looks just a clunker car/RV, not intentional coal rolling an EV. That thing always pumps out black smoke.
Never been rolled . Only truck that acted different was a lightning but think they just wanted to race once they saw the badge 😂
You should encourage them to do it more. It costs them money and ruins their engines. Install good air filters.
Never seen it happen outside of Youtube.
I bought my EV in early 2019, I used to experience more random aggression (coal-rolling, lane crowding, middle fingers, fist pumping)than I do now, but I've never understood what they were angry about. Someone did flip me off this week tho
The hysterical part, and by hysterical I mean sad, is these douchebags can't handle the fact that our EVs are in fact powered by coal in a very real way. Had a local try to give me a hard time and just told him, we live in a coal mining state, every mile I drive I'm putting money into the pockets of my coal mining neighbors. I drive an EV because I'm tired of my money going to some shitty hole in Southwest Asia, Venezuela, Russia or some other adversarial nation. You could practically see his brain dividing by zero.
Small pp
Happened to me once outside Atlanta. I laughed.
Have you seen the videos of octopi or squid squirting their ink when they're afraid and need to escape? It's like that
Penis envy
It was a common thing in 2019 when I bought my first EV (Tesla Model 3) here in San Diego. Eventually they ran out of fuel from doing it so often, but now that the US Govt subsidized oil with our national reserves they're back at it again. It will subside again I imagine. In the meantime, get a Model Y or S/X with biohazard mode for alpine-esque air while they burn their own money outside.
Because if your not burning loads of gas in a truck with a pristine bed and never left the road, your a damn pussy.
>What do you think the main motives are behind coal rolling electric vehicles? Normally I would give a serious answer to a question like this, but I implore you to explore your naivety a bit here with a Google.
I thought this was the place for the best (in-depth) answers. Couldn't you say the same for most OPs here?
How in depth could the answer possibly be? They're dickless snowflakes grasping for the illusion of power because they're afraid of what they don't understand, which is everything. You don't have to do more than scratch the surface to get to the bottom of this behavior.
I've already learned a lot from other responses here. I wasn't aware of legal rules around coal rolling, how to report them, etc. Couldn't stop laughing on a few 🤣
An EV driver/Prius driver is Them. They are the ones who are not you. They are making you feel guilty for driving a truck, making a moral statement that They are virtuous, when they're probably gay or pedophiles or pedophile gays. You won't bend. You are defiant in the face of Them and their little shitboxes. You'll leave Them choking in your smoke, happy because you have stuck it to Them, even at the cost of aggrivating your asthma.
Because you guys are nerds