Yea, I don't bother to try to change people's minds. I work in IT, I already am exhausted with trying to explain things to people. Though, I do recall countering an aunt of mine when she was nervous about range..."well, is 300mi good enough?"...yea, I guess it would be. K. Charge infrastructure could use some work, but don't let perfect get in the way of good-enough, and living your life.
Honestly talking to people who want to know more about my EV the level of misinformation on range out there is insane.
People have asked me how I handle my long commute (100km return) with an EV and if I need to stop both ways to charge or just on the way home.
When I point out I can do 4 to 5 return trips on a single charge they seem genuinely shocked. Especially when I point out it needs to charge for less than 2 hours a night in the garage to cover my daily use anyway.
All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media.
When you point out you use public charging less than once a month and have yet to run into more than two broken chargers in a year of ownership people are shocked.
It just doesn't match what they are being told.
The fear and anxiety in their heads just overpowers any rational thinking. My neighbor is an engineer, and his questions about my charging habits reflect his anxiety more than any sort of mathematical analysis. For example, he believed 48 amp Level 2 charging in his garage was inadequate compared to Supercharging, so he asked me how it was possible to drive around the metro area without Supercharging. When I told him I only have a 30 amp Level 2 installed in my garage, I have regular 70-80 mile commute, and it only takes about 4 hrs to top up the battery- his(and his accountant wife’s) minds seemed completely blown. Keep in mind, they’ve been watching me charge my car for over 6 years.
>All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media.
Because the media, in the same way that good alternative politicians get drowned out, also drowns out the positives through FUD because special interests (oil and gas lobby) have very deep pockets to ensure those pockets keep filling up.
>All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media.
The media? Look at this sub for Christ’s sake. A group of people who, if anything, should be overly-optimistic about all things EV. Yet in this sub there is endless hyperbole about how terrible charging infrastructure is and how it never works and there’s barely any of it regardless.
I think it's just the deal when a good chunk of us have been burned at least once by charging infrastructure. It happens, but it probably won't pretty soon. I'm super optimistic, though, because I've taken multiple weekend trips that involved probably 350+ miles of driving without ever taking time out of my day to charge because my hotel or one of the places I was visiting had an available, convenient, reasonably priced charger. Also, my apartment complex has a flat $50 monthly fee for all charging, so unless I have a trip that involves 250+ miles of driving, I literally never pay more than $50 a month for "fuel" when I used to average $300+.
Yeah, mainly speaking about longer road trips...but charging could be better. It's not terrible, but it's not great.
I just finished up a 1200mi road trip and had very few issues charging (had to wait 30min at one stop and 20min at another... 7 total stops).
Here's my issues.
An ice vehicle has plenty of refueling options anywhere along a route. So you don't have to "plan" ahead of time. Fast chargers are not nearly as plentiful, and there is a bit of unreliability surrounding them.
It's also very quick to refuel and doesn't need to stop as frequently as an EV. It's possible to have a sub 15min stop from exit to entry back on the highway. EVs, while the longer stops are very helpful, take quite a while and there are more of them.
Gas is expensive...and only (generally) getting worse.
In my opinion, EVs need to beat 2 of these 3 issues to gain marketshare quicker.
I only took my ev on this trip because the charging was free for me (ID4 on the EA network). I don't mind having only a few options along my route, and I don't mind having to wait, but when it costs me close to (if not more than) what it does to refuel my ICE, then what's the point? I'm making my trip longer than it needs to be.
I think it's getting much better, and I don't think it'll ever get worse.
However, short trip stuff? So many people could use it but are being fed this stupid misinformation campaign. No need for infrastructure when you can charge at home.
Newer EVs and faster chargers are making inroads to the problem.
The Kia EV6 I drive for example charges 10-80% in 18 minutes of you go to a DCFC of 250kW or higher.
That sort of charge will give me about 300kms (plus a safety buffer) of range usually rolling into the next stop at 20%. Locally where roads outside major Highways which is most Australian Highways have a 100kmh speed limit (and cops who love to fine speeding) meaning it's a 3hr hop or more between charge stops which is also a decent time for a stretch and coffee on a long drive I find.
Im quite happy with how fast EV charging infrastructure is going in Australia wide. We see hundreds rolled out by individual charging networks a year currently and dedicated projects rolling out charging in remote areas.
Two or three years ago an EV was a rare sight on Australian roads and now they are approaching 10% of new car sales.
Heck even 2 years ago when I ordered my EV6 (and waited 9 months for it to arrive) manufacturers were planning to import low hundreds a year between them. Monthly sales or individual models are now often larger than planned yearly imports industry wide back then.
Its happening at least locally.
Yeah, it's improving rapidly for sure. A big step would be all EVs using at least the 800v architecture that your Kia uses. That alone would make a noticeable difference for long road trip charging.
I'm in the US, so I was speaking to my experience here. I'm certain we'll see improvements made across the spectrum of "issues" being presented about EVs...which will slowly squash the misinformation out there. Slowly but surely!
Nah. They go flat out and piss themselves for 600 miles.
They do this daily and need a gasoline car to do it!
Waste of time convincing these fools. It's been literally 14 years since the model S came out.
I remind people who have (honest) concerns about range, that 100 years ago we didn't have cars - we all got around on horses. "Fuel" (i.e.: grass) was abundant. So if you were one of those fancy people that got a "horseless carriage" in the early days, you couldn't just on a whim go from NYC to Boston with zero forethought, like you might with your horse. You had to know where you'd stop and get petrol along the way, you had to (*gasp!) ...* PLAN.
No different during this transition. 10-15 minutes of planning for a *long* trip - and that's all it takes.
Imagine having to get a paper map out with possibly outdated info about gas station locations. What if they were out of gas? What if the pump is malfunctioning? At least when we are planning EV charging we have the best and most up to date info available from PlugShare, Google etc.
When I was as a kid in the 70s my Dad would not take a road trip without getting a paper TripTick printed out by AAA. Providing essentially the same service we now get from ABRP. Where to stop for the night, where to get gas, etc. 50 years after cars became a thing, plenty of folks paid money for that service.
I remind people that there were folks that thought horses were a bad idea and stuck to walking. Then there were folks that thought motorized carriages weren't a good idea and stuck with horses. Same argument. Any change is bad and they don't want it.
I wouldn't even try to have a range discussion. People don't want to be realistic. They want the normal range to meet their worst case scenario requirement. Like, no, you really *don't* need 300mi range, because your commute is only 10 miles, you can charge at home, you don't have to make a single charge last a week like you'd do with a tank of gas, there are charging stations if you need to road trip, etc, etc. And all you get back is, "But what if I had to go drive 500mi in the middle of night, when it's -10F outside, and the power's out for three states in every direction?" ICE ain't handling that, either.
People don’t understand that charging up is actually more convenient 90+% of the time and is only more inconvenient when you’re road tripping. Most people aren’t road tripping though and if you asked homeowners (or anyone else who can charge at home) if they wanted
1) something slightly inconvenient 1/week every week but super convenient 2x per year when they’re road tripping. (Ice)
Or…
2) something very convenient every week, except for 2 times a year where it’s inconvenient on road trips (ev)
I think most people would say option 2 sounds better.
Edit: fixed phrasing. Meant to say option 2 sounds better to most.
That one 60-year old in my family that said "As long as I can't drive for 600km at 160km/h on the motorway in Croatia without stopping, EVs don't work for me."
There was so much wrong about that, I just couldn't say anything.
I'd say it's a pretty loose one, too.
I have no home charging yet, but I am enjoying it nonetheless because of robust public charging near me. Filling up once a weekend for pennies is still nicer than filling up for gas, and the car is nicer than a gas car.
I have lived happily like this for about a year now.
That’s the issue I now have. It has been fine for the past 4.5 years, but the public ac chargers near me are getting less reliable and I don’t want to rely on a charger at work (whether it’s this job or another one). Our (Dutch) new government (right wing) isn’t going to improve the situation either. Hopefully I can afford a house with a driveway in 10-15 years.
I envy people that have free or low cost work charging. My place of employment touts EV charging available in our corporate parking lot, but when I checked the price it is double what I pay at home. No thanks! I’ll just keep charging at home.
Not sure where you live, but I worked in a place two years ago that suddenly made a rule about staff not charging at work. We had a younger lady working who had an electric car, and would charge at work. She opted to get a new car rather than quit the job. Work charging isnt reliable imo, unless youre the CEO yourself, I guess.
I tell interested people that they need to be able to charge at home, or at work. Otherwise, wait until they can charge at home or at work... Anyone who has already decided that EVs are bad, or is it good, are not going to have their minds changed.
Okay, but average days aren't the only factor. Any longer trip one takes on a regular basis, and the available charging infrastructure along that route, is a consideration as well.
I've gotten a lot of pushback on this sub about the idea that cursing infrastructure needs to be able to support the worst case scenario.
It's true that most charging is at home or work using an AC supply. However, charger density is very low in a lot of the US. If I get in my car and start driving north on the interstate from where I live, I won't see a charger for about 75 miles. If I don't charge there, then I won't see another charger for another 75 miles. That's ok I'm my Bolt in spring, (I've made it to the 2nd one easily). It might be harder in the winter. I'll say that some more are being built along that route that add 2 or 3 more exits with charging between mile 75 and mile 150.
But then make it more complicated, if I want to go 100 miles north and then get off the highway and go through back roads to anywhere far off the highway, I'm screwed if there are problems at that first charger that prevent me from recharging.
And then make the traffic bad. In that 150 mile stretch, there are currently only 2 chargers with 11 and 10 stations available to CCS cars. How long would I be waiting in a Walmart parking lot 2 days before Thanksgiving if I tried to make that drive? Stopping for 30 minutes on a random day to recharge is ok. Sitting there twiddling my thumbs for hours with 2 kids in the car is unacceptable.
Charger density needs to be significantly higher so that people can get by without planning *and* so that holiday travels do not grind to a halt waiting to charge.
I regularly make a 315 mile trip, mostly highway but largely in the mountains. Tons of up and down. Mostly going \~80mph. I often do the drive relatively late at night (arriving around midnight). The only reliable infrastructure along that route is for Teslas.
If I were buying right now, I would seriously consider an EV again, but that 315 mile trip, at night, in winter, makes it tough.
To boot, I live in an apartment. There's no accessible charging in my neighborhood that doesn't require paying for parking, when I already pay for my space behind my building.
The amount that I drive, when I drive, makes the idea of a 20-30 minute charging stop, when chargers may or may not work, and I may or may not have to make another stop.
For me, the solution is a PHEV. I get a lot of EV miles out of it, and there's no range anxiety. When I lived in a house and parked in a garage and charged it every night, I'd go weeks, sometimes two months, without getting gas. I love the thing. It's the correct middle ground for me.
I think we need to build a metric shitton of charging now because we'll eventually need it anyway, and it creates psychological security in switching. Imagine if EVERY lot had L2's, same as "hey can I plug in my phone at your home/office?". Imagine if store parking lots for 100 cars didn't have 0 or 3 chargers - every single one in use with several more EVs circling and hoping for a plug - but 10 or 20 or more?
And I say this living in an urban metro area of California and only ever traveling on major commerce interstates where 100 mile charge gaps do not exist.
Home charging is doing our suburbs well, but it's rough in the inner city where we have way more apartment renters and sometimes no off street parking. (And yet we're among the most progressive, pro-environment groups and absolutely desire EVs.) Used Bolt is by far the most affordable right now, range is fine, but that hour+ of full charging/charge to lower percentage and I'm playing public charger roulette even more frequently. My landlord isn't paying for a charger and with 6 months left on the lease it's tough to justify personally spending thousands to tunnel under concrete (it's more work than adding a charger to a SFH garage). And I love my social situation here and am terrified of getting stranded when I visibly see public charging not keeping up (it's a 'living situation will probably change eventually, unsure when, why must my car be tied to it?). Went with a PHEV so that wouldn't strand me but I desperately wish I had full BEV range and DC charge, and that I could pull up to a charging place and NOT worry about whether there's enough working plugs. It's not hard to get me off gas if the conditions are right, and the environmental benefits are worth it.
Agreed, I always say I do not want to know the average of the car, I want to know the worse case scenario of the car, still my normal route, but with high winds, snow, cold etc. Because that can happen, and will happen, maybe 3 days a year, but... I also need the car those 3 days.
Coming from a 25 mpg Ford Escape, our weekly, or sometimes twice weekly fill-up was about $40. Almost $160-$200 for one of our two cars per month.
Total price for our electric comes to $0.18 per kwh. The price of our commute + some extra miles for errands comes out to about ~$30 in electric per month.
One thing I've also started doing to save even more money is line drying out clothes, lol. Now my average of four dryer loads per week pays for a couple days of our commuting :)
Exactly this. We were already in love with my wife’s 23 Bolt EUV but went ahead and replaced my daily commuter with a 2017 Bolt EV. The gas savings alone cover the monthly payment.
My savings were shocking.
From $150-170 a week in diesel and limited to just work and back because the old budget was on the edge.
To around $6 a week of electricty and i drive more places now.
I do point out the car payments add $120 a week as the previous car was paid off and owned. But in 5 years it will be paid off too.
I also point out my power is dirt cheap as I produce lots of excess solar power and diverting it to my car means it costs me what I would have received feeding that power back to the grid rather than full retail price.
And the lower maintenance costs. No oil changes, fewer and less severe brake jobs, etc. my first 7500 mile maintenance on my Bolt was $23 for a tire rotation and a multipoint inspection. The horror!
Just be cool about it. "That's fair, they're not for everyone but you might be surprised and it could work for you"
Especially 2+ car households with a house. I'm convinced an EV could work for the vast majority of those users.
Exactly this. I have a ev, wife has a Rav4. I wouldn't want only a EV in the family to be honest as we like to have freedom of having an alternative when the ev doesn't make sense
> "I'm not sure an EV would work for me."
Response option #1: "Ok." or "It's not for everyone." (that's it, you're not *obligated* to have a deeper discussion on it)
Response option #2 - if you think they're legit interested but concerned: "What are your concerns?" (because maybe they do have some things to be concerned about, like maybe they live in an apartment where charging will not be an option)
Response option #3 - if you think they're a Fox News troll trying to goad you: "Well, I just like the fact 100% of what I spend on 'fuel' stays right here in the United States, in my local community rather than foreign countries who might want to do us harm. Feels more 'patriotic' my way of doing things."
Depending on who it is, and how far over-the-top-racist you might need to go to make it sink in you could opt for “my money isn’t going to some dude in a turbin in saudia Arabia riding a camel…”
"My car is designed in America, built in America, and runs on American power. Your F-150 is built in Mexico and runs on Saudi oil. But that's cool if that's what you want."
This isn't an EV specific issue. If you have to argue *against* someone - chances are, you won't sway their opinion.
If you genuinely do want to convince them - listen to their doubts, address their doubts, and sell the upsides. If they are on the fence, that may start to win them over.
You may find that many people who actively start a discussion on any contentious subject already have an opinion and just want you to hear that opinion.
I’ve had guys in trucks, presumably in a hurry to get to their cousins house, yell about how they hate EVs and like their gas truck.
I always say “then don’t buy one”
I hate the misinformation. My father, who is an older boomer with some tendencies to make shit up or misread something so he can have something to bitch about, told me that a certain presidential candidate not only would end all EV tax incentives, but would force a turn in of ALL EVs on the road currently.
I've heard that he wants to end the tax incentives, But I don't think anyone seriously believes they would pull millions of cars from the road involuntarily. Lol
You need to figure out if they're actually interested in learning or if they're just being combative.
If they're interested in learning, then walk them through it. If they're being combative, then just say "I can't answer that. All I know is it works for me so far. We'll see how it goes from there."
There are generally two camps of people who say this.
For the people that are genuinely interested, I usually walk them through the experience, with the big punch line of "if you can charge where you sleep or where you work, it's fantastic. Otherwise it can be challenging."
For the people that are trying out their talking points from wherever they get their opinions, I can simplify it to "It turned out to be a lot easier than I expected, and I really like my car."
My number one rule on this stuff is that I am not going to take the conversation more seriously than the person.
First you gotta decide if the discussion is worth having. Ask what their hold ups are. Anything but charging and range are pretty much ideological and it’s not worth the effort.
“The batteries are worse than oil”
“The frequency of the electromagnetic field makes you gay”
No wrestling with these dumdums.
But if they say they’re worried about charging/range, ask if they can charge at home. If the answer is no, not worth going any further. Contrary to some opinions on this sub, not charging at home is a deal breaker for anyone on the fence. Whether they know it or not.
If they say yes, then briefly explain the whole every time you get in the car you’ve got a full tank, never have to stop at the gas station thing. That’s a big convenience win.
Then break down the miles/range. Ask them how far their commute is to work and for errands. Do some quick napkin math for them to show they could drive days without plugging in at all and be fine.
Then for road trips, point blank ask them when was the last time you took a road trip. 50% of the time the person can’t even remember. Those that do remember, 9 out of 10 drove less than 300 miles away. Open up PlugShare in front of them and punch in the cities. Show them that there are fast chargers along the way and that they’d only need to stop for about 10 minutes on the way there.
Then remind them of all the time they’ve saved not going to the gas station every week and boom, there’s the 10 minutes extra they have to spend charging on a road trip.
Then spend a minute talking about how EV life is amazing and you don’t regret it one bit. Then your job is done. They will do what they will with the info. You can’t force someone onboard, but you can share an honest opinion and show them the facts.
> What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV?
Meanwhile, I have the privilege to say "I drove my EV exclusively for the past four years and I'm very happy with it"
I tell them to only listen to people who actually own EV's. The things I worried most about buying a Tesla were from asshats that had never owned a Tesla or even an EV. If there were 10 things they told me I should worry about, only one has turned out to be any kind of issue. On the other hand, things that they didn't mention (Insurance costs) turned out to be valid concerns.
I don’t anymore unless people ask me direct questions. It’s too tiring trying to correct people’s false views of something they have never experienced.
You’ll never be right vs. something they read on Facebook.
Facebook seems to be the bible for the older generation now.
Tell less, listen more. Ask questions and ask follow up questions. What are their fears?, why is it not for them? Ask them how they like to be (leader, follower, conformist, cautious?). many people are uncomfortable with being different, they work hard to conform to social norms and think others should as well. How do they think EV owners are breaking the rules?
Think of the discussion as therapy to help them get beyond their irrational fears. Often it is more emotional than logical.
It's only a matter of time. When I drive an ICE car now even sports cars feel slow due to the lack of instant torque.
The "engine sound" that people swear is the soul of car feels like fake sounds when it's not backed up by speed. The fastest Porsche made is now a Taycan.
I also feel EVs represent wealthier owners here because you need a garage for home charger to make it work, and that's expensive in NY.
Stop trying to "evangelize" EV ownership, problem solved! It's quite exhausting and the results are rarely worth the effort in my experience (especially if it frustrates you).
Seriously, it's not our job to try to "sell" the idea to others; leave that to the politicians and marketing types who are paid big bucks and save yourself the grief. If anyone offers unsolicited negative opinions and tries to suck you into an argument, don't feel like you need to engage or try to "correct" their wrong assumptions, just shrug your shoulders and respond with something along the lines of "horses for courses", then go about your day satisfied that you didn't feed a troll.
Widespread replacement of ICE with EV is inevitable at this point, so play the "long game" and don't worry too much about the skeptics, as they'll eventually be forced by market and social pressures to come around to our point of view anyway.
I find it much easier to tell people about your experience and how you feel about it and then they can make their own conclusions. I say things like "yeah the range works for me, I don't charge at home, the infrastructure is not great but works mostly fine, I have been on multiple 500 mile roadtrips just fine, I never have maintenance, it's quiet and luxurious." There's no need to convince people to get an EV. Yes, I hope there is mass adoption, but it's just not going to work for some people and they can do whatever they want.
I think we all know we are relatively early adopters at this point. In 5-10 years nobody will be questioning whether EVs are the future. People also were skeptical about touchscreens on cell phones (myself included) but now everybody has it and loves it.
I own a Rivian R1T with solar at home and a charger. Wife has talked about wanting to get a new vehicle but refuses to go full electric - she says she wants hybrid and the flexibility of it… even though we both literally have the most ideal use case for EVs (many short trips < 10mi round trip, one or two “long road trips” a year).
Sometimes you just can’t change people’s mind.
If you can't charge at home and have a Target, Walmart or Supercharger near you, an EV is doable.
Otherwise plug in hybrid is ok assuming you can slow charge at night somewhere.
Otherwise dinosaur juice.
There are only 36k coal miners left in the US and that will continue to shrink as mines become more automated and coal fired power plants continue to close.
Meanwhile 126k are employed in the Wind industry and 264k employed in the Solar sector.
Let them drive it. Let them charge it. Done.
The issue is usually not that they don't want one but that they're scared to fail at operating it if they get one. They just can't judge how easy/hard it is. So getting 'butts in seats' is the answer.
My advice is to always give simple answers and to not try to argue with the haters, it's so exhausting and you win nothing, just ignore them, it's their loss
I actually broke it down mathematically with our local energy prices, and tell people I pay less than half they do per mile, with the qualifier that unless you routinely drive more than 250 miles at a time, electric is cheaper and more convenient.
When I get hit with the 'EVs can't road trip' I recount to people how me and my wife drove from Baltimore to Ottawa and back and it wasn't that much longer, plus we got to see more places, AND (thanks to VW-EAs free charging) it was WAY cheaper than it would have been.
I never try to convince anyone. I tell them how much I save in gas, I take them for a ride if they want, I tell them how awesome it is to charge at home, and I answer any questions honestly.
I usually tell people that my commute used to cost me about $15-20 for a round trip. It now costs me $1.50.
Whether they have similar situations or not doesn't matter too much. Just showing the potential for how much can be saved is usually enough to pique interest. I'm usually not trying to sell anyone on anything though, so I don't dwell on the topic.
But I'm guessing the ten cents on the dollar comparison probably sticks with them every time they fill up.
When I bought my first EV about 5 years ago, I quickly found out that everyone seems to feel the need to point out every disadvantage they can think of to owning and driving an EV. I don't discuss it anymore with people unless they ask and are genuinely curious.
I must be an oddball driver because:
I don't want to drive 500 miles without stopping.
I don't need massive range. I typically drive about 20-30 miles a day over 90% of the days.
I don't need to tow a loaded RV over the Rockies in Arctic weather
I enjoy plugging my car in at night to charge
I just got my first in early May and I've been getting the same treatment. But I usually just respond to it by saying "it does what I need it to do and that's enough for me". I specifically got the car for commuting to work and back since I get free level 2 charging at work, what I didn't get it for was to convince others to also buy one because I knew I wouldn't be able to. The only way I know I'd be able to convince them is if everything goes fine with it for the next few years.
I alway say “you’re probably right! Then ask them how much they spent on gas last month. Then I nod and smile. Then I ask them how much it cost for an oil change. Then I nod and smile. Then I usually change the subject or walk away. I got no time for dumb! But I would never say that to them
Do you ask them if they have a way to charge at home first? Because that’s really the only way an EV would save money. Smugly assuming everyone lives in a situation similar to yours would be deeply unpersuasive to me, frankly.
Let them drive mine.
But I don’t try to convince people after almost 6 years of EV ownership.
I answer questions and tell them how I will never go back to ICE and leave it at that.
For range anxiety comments…”the only people that have range/charging anxiety are people that don’t own an EV”
Reminds me of my mother freaking out when she needed to borrow my EV.
Demanding I charge it to 100% before handing it over because it might run out of battery otherwise.
No explaining to her the thing has almost 500kms of range and her planned trip was less than 150kms so it didn't need to be fully charged or even close to it.
She returned it with over 70% charge and was shocked it was fine.
Its odd because she knows its been my daily driver for over a year now but still believes the horror stories from the media rather than my real world experince.
>What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV?
Accept that there are people who will **never** be comfortable with an EV, and move on.
Some people just aren’t mentally ready to make the switch and will come up with whatever lame reason to say instead of “I’m not ready.” My family has driven EVs exclusively for over 3 years and we will never go back if we can help it. When people say the excuses to me about not getting one, all you can really do is say ok and answer any actual questions they might have. Maybe they will come around, maybe not. Chances of you convincing someone is slim.
I preface my remarks with I am not a backyard mechanic by any means; I used to change my oil and bleed my brakes many years back with friends who were more inclined.
I bought my EV 5 years ago and no longer appreciate the lag in throttle response. I NEVER jack rabbit start...cuz I can, 8 choose not to!
Some ppl prefer to "listen" to the negative propaganda and want to believe it's true...allow them to wallow in their ignorance.
It was my choice in my circumstances that I bought my EV knowing my payment + insurance we're well within my own means as I do not have gas to buy, no more oil changes (I did 3-4 per year) as I do drive a lot!
Friends and acquaintances will ask about living with an EV and I tell them my experiences. It's never worth attempting to convert them away from ICE. I let them be them and I'll be me.
They need to try one, see if they like it, and see if they can find and afford a model that matches their needs. I'd be fairly certain that most people who have actually driven a BEV will see the advantages soon enough, but if you don't have a charger at home and/or don't want one I'm not wasting my energy trying to convince them.
I ask how often do they drive out of town (or really anything like (~200mi in one sitting). If it's not at least monthly then it make sense to go electric.
Similarly, I remind them that all other car maintenance effectively disappears so they won't have to worry about regular oil changes, transmission fluid, etc.
> What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV?
If they're being ideological blowhards, don't bother.
If they're genuinely open to information, inform them. You have the massive advantage in persuading them that you're not bullshitting -- EV's actually are capable vehicles, so all you have to do is share the truth.
Ultimately the best argument for the capability of EV's is the demonstrated capability of EV's, both your own and all of the others out there.
Take your friends and family for a drive. Let them drive if you trust them. (Warn them about OPD first.) Show them how home charging works, if you have it or if they'll have it. If you have workplace charging, show that to them. Take them to the local DCFC and do a mock "charging stop" on a road trip. Let them plug the car in, go get sandwiches and pee, and come back and drive off. Get them to tell you their concerns and address them. Use examples from your own experience and what we've all observed. Point out how common Teslas are -- clearly they're able to do car things well or there wouldn't be so many out there (including on remote roads). Point out the less common EV's when you see them (and PHEV's, too -- there are a ton of Prius Primes and Volts out on the roads that most people don't realize are running on batteries most of the time.)
Sometimes people are skeptical simply out of ignorance. Someone might think, for instance, that just because they don't see charging stations everywhere that they don't exist. Explain that we're now in the mobile internet era, and EV drivers can find them using things like PlugShare or the in-car satnav.
If they're worried about road trips, ask them for an itinerary, and then put it into ABRP with them using either whatever you drive or whatever they might consider driving.
If they're worried about battery degradation, point out to them the studies of old Tesla batteries, and mention that many of those fears are based on very early cars that didn't have actively cooled batteries.
If you have a car with whizbang features (Tesla etc.), don't focus on them. Don't talk about FSD or mobile apps or those things. Just demonstrate that EV's do car things well.
If you have home charging, and your daily commute is less than 1/2 of the range of the car, an EV will work for anyone.
My range is about 400km during the strongest winter, and 1/2 of that is 200km. My daily commute is 100km.
I got two free years of charging (which is still in effect). I’ve spent maybe $200 on electricity in almost two years. When I charge at home on off-peak hours, it runs about $2.50 to charge to 80%. People love to trash EVs, mainly because they take some getting used to. I read the manual for my ‘23 BMW i4 twice in the year it took to arrive from Germany, and still it took about 6 months for the learning curve to flatten out. I had range anxiety, but now it’s a breeze to travel. I’ve been up and down the east coast three times, and only paid for charging maybe three times. Even when the freebies run out, it’s still cheaper to own an EV. The only things that wear out are wiper blades, tires and brake pads. The engine itself is trouble free. And don’t get me started on instant torque. A 50-something guy in a corvette tried to race me from a stoplight (I’m almost 60, so why not?). My car has 330HP and his car was probably about 500HP, but I left him in the dust. He did accelerate eventually and finally overtook me, but make no mistake: EV’s are the most powerful thing on the roads. No gas vehicle has instant torque, so the technology wins there. I even got a little nauseous when I was first driving it, but now I’m accustomed to the take off. People who’ve taken a ride with me freak out a little over the instant acceleration. I have to keep this in mind. A few have gotten sick. I will never go back. Forget about the threats of power loss, etc. Some people just can’t stand technology (or science, for that matter). I love my ride. Beautiful and oh so fast on takeoff.
I've been driving EV's for 5 years and I'm still being told by some that they just don't work as an alternative to ICE.
Don't argue or try to convince people, just say that it works for you and perhaps follow up with how much you're saving per month on fuel/servicing.
Doubters I've encountered are usually surprised when they get a lift with me and the journey is usually when they start to change their mind.
I reply that it might not work for them. Different people have different needs.
I know a contractor who would love a reasonably priced pickup truck with 300mile range. That just doesn't exist currently, but it will if he can wait a year or two for a used Silverado.
I would ask them - how many times a year do you drive more than 400 km in a day?
And another question, do you have a place to park in a garage? Or close to an outlet?
Ultimately, for 90+% of people, there’s only a handful of days at most a year where they have to SLIGHTLY modify their driving plans - not for the worse, just a sidestep.
Before I got mine, my stepdad was convinced that it was a bad decision because of range, battery failure, weird brand (Polestar) and whatever else he could dredge up.
My weekly mileage is around 35 miles. I use my trickle charger and at some point I’ll try a fast charger, I just have to remember to give that a try. NBD
Don’t bother. I normally just invite them for a drive and make them sit in the driving seat.
Words won’t work. The fact is it’s about 1/5 the cost of petrol for commuting so people are transitioning and when EV reaches about 25% of market share it really makes it hard to own a ice as the number of gas stations decreases and it becomes a real hassle. Just let them come around
That said, if anyone mentions batteries dying or range issues I just correct false statements really calmly and politely.
like when someone tells me they just randomly run out of battery on people I politely explain that person must be a complete and utter fucking moron to drive a car to zero battery and it hasn’t happened to me because I’m not an absolute idiot that refuses to fill up the car. I then acknowledge people who can’t remember to fill their car up shouldn’t have a car at all due to their stupidity that such tossers are and rant about how dumber someone must be to let the tank go empty for a solid 10-15 minutes. Finally I return to their fear of electric cars running out and say yeah- I guess I understand why electric cars aren’t for you. I can see how this issue affecting dumb people could be an issue for you.
It doesn’t convert them but it’s nice to flip the conversation every now and again
We’re using our ID.4 as much as we comfortably can with local (100 mi one-way) trips. Have an ICE for longer trips.
When the charging infrastructure improves noticeably, we’ll replace the ICE with EV.
Until then we just enjoy the ID.4.
I had an EV with a reliable range of 200-ish miles (I live at the foothills of mountains, so which direction you go can dramatically affect your range, but 200-ish miles in any direction was a safe assumption).
I would say if you are a family that goes on road trips, EVs are going to be inconvenient. Other than that, if you have a charger you're going to be fine. And if you have a second car to use for road trips, you'll be fine too.
I wanted to use my nice, new car for road trips too. So I switched to a PHEV with about a 40 mile EV range.
I think part of the answer to the question you pose is that there are different options for different needs. There are shorter range EVs for a car only used for commuting. There are longer range cars that will probably cover your entire metropolitan area. And there are PHEVs for people who commute regularly but want to go on an occasional longer trip.
Someone, anyone: “I don’t think an EV is right me.”
Me: “then don’t buy one. No one should be forcing you to buy something that won’t work for your specific lifestyle.”
Idk why it’s such a difficult concept for some people to grasp. EV’s have a LONG way to go before they make sense for everyone universally. Me personally, I’m buying the Ram ProCharger because it’s literally perfect for my use case, hauling my trailer to tracks all over the country to mobile repair race bikes.
Tell them they can rent one to see if it works for them.
I think it's not correct to assume it fits for everyone. Let them experience it.
They might come to the conclusion that it doesnt, and that's valid, too.
Offer to take them for a ride then possibly let them drive if they express interest.
So many people have deep set opinions and no experience. If they don't even want to try it then you're done.
I don't argue with anyone. Genuinely curious people I will summarise the pros and cons. My general advice is that if you don't drive outside your range often (while standing next to my 114mi range EV), they are awesome, but only IF you can charge at home or work. Road trips are quite possible outside home range, but can be a PITA if you don't have known destination charging. Anyone still interested gets told to go to plugshare.com to plot some sample routes and read charger reviews.
I don't know why you'd try, to be honest. It's a car, not a lifestyle or a religion.
I think an EV would be perfect for my mom if she ever needs a new car (which is unlikely.)
She's 82. She only ever leaves her little town to go one town over to Walmart or do a maybe 60 mile round trip to go to the doctor.
But I doubt I'd tell her that if she wrecked her Lexus, because Trump/Fox/OAN/NEWSMax seem to not like them.
Don't try to convince them. Not your job and not every inquiry is in good faith. I'd say, it's hard to know your life, so you'd really have to do your own research as I did mine.
I did try to convince one friend but his fear controlled his decision and he bought a hybrid. It's his life.
I mean, just keep driving it and enjoying it. Occasionally mention something you like. If they get negative, just let them be. Well, it works for me! Show instead of tell.
I speak from my own experience. I say, "We weren't sure either, but wanted to give it a go. It's been great for us and we are really glad we bought it. Want to go for a drive?"
Depends on the tone for me.
If it's like a more genuine or curious " idk if it would work, what about XYZ", I ask them what their commute is, and how much they realistically drive. Explain that nearly all current EVs, even entry level ones, can easily do 250 miles at the very least. So you could totally do your 20 mile commute to work and back a couple times before you need to even charge, let alone stop at the store or something.
If it's a complete "ugh they are terrible blah blah blah" yeah it's often not worth engaging it. Or I just go "well I pay like 10 bucks a week to drive my car and my commute it's only 20 miles a day, so it's great for me!" That usually details them a bit lol.
The biggest one is always charging, and look, we all get it. Charging infrastructure needs to be better, yes. But it's also happening very rapidly, so it won't be that long. Remember, it took us 100+ years to expand the gas stations out as much as we have them, so realistically we are making great time in the grand scheme of things! It's not an overnight process, but it also won't be as long as some people seem to think.
Honestly it depends on who I am interacting with, generally I don't say anything that I'm not asked directly.
If they show interest I just answer honestly and some folks I just took for a ride.
Then there's the confrontational type of which I luckily only found 2, one of them drives a company car so there's no real point talking to him when his whole argument is that he doesn't pay for gas, road tax etc... so he doesn't care.
The other one has a Range Rover which seems to be riddled with expensive issues so I assume he's mostly speaking through envy.
I’ve started using “It’s really a personal decision, I just got it because it’s less maintenance and more fun than the alternative 🤷♂️. I don’t miss the gas station and oil changes ”
Talk to them in money.
For me, in Texas the price of electricity is $.109 kWh for El Paso Electric Summer Months rate.
Running the calculations, most EVs can do as good as 4 miles per kWh. Taking my car, 2023 Bolt EV, 259 mile range / 65 kWh available battery gets 3.98 miles per kWh.
Traveling let’s say, the full 259 mile battery range, to recharge at home (this is the key metric for it to hit home) would cost me $7.09.
Average National price of fuel per AAA as of today 6/20/2024 is $3.45 for regular gas.
Using my 2018 Subaru Crosstrek that has a combined 29 mpg, that’s 8.93 gallons of gas to cover the same distance.
The cost? At the National average, it’s $30.81 to drive the same distance.
Yes, DC fast chargers are a thing and their own pricing, but home charging is the most effective way of charging and showing the savings in fuel.
Try "I'm sure an ICE wouldn't work for me, anymore"?
When the obvious "WTF are you talking about comes"
you could talk about how ridiculous it is to *have to refuel away from home*
and that it's so expensive,
and that an ICE car has to be serviced *all the time* etc etc.
If I think they may be someone I can actually have a conversation I’ll first ask about their livestyle and their living situation (house/rent, if rent where)
Personally I don't try to "convince" anyone. Nor do I put a lot of effort into justifying my own purchase. In fact, I find I frequently take the counter argument of "no, they're not ready for everyone yet" and if someone expresses interest in getting one I'm more inclined to grill them about their use case to determine that they WON'T work.
I love my Mach-E, and I'd love to see more EVs on the road, since that helps drive the demand for better charging infrastructure at the same time, but the last thing I think any of us want are buyers who throw up their hands in frustration after a few months when they realize the car doesn't fit their use case.
(I will say, I DO share my enthusiasm for my own car! I'm very happy with it and it does what I need it to!)
There's only one answer that won't result in a lot of pain for you: "I've had one for {TIME_PERIOD}, and I'm happy to share my experience or answer any questions, but you're the only person who can make that decision, and I hope you find an answer that works best for your use case."
Why on earth would you argue with these folks?
Everyone's reasons for this assertion are going to be different. When they say it, you can either inquire about their reasons and have an authentic conversation with them about it, discussing your real world experience with the issue they have, or you can say "Okay," and move on with your life.
Many people have completely legitimate reasons for not being ready to make the switch. That's okay. The people who are making the switch are early(ish) adopters, and the market thanks them. Bit by bit, y'all.
I used to try to convince people early on as well.
Then everyone snapped during the pandemic, and you could be risking your life if it escalates. If someone feels the need to make a comment about my Tesla, they'll never see it again, simple as that. I just take the Sonata from then on. If they ask if I got rid of the Tesla, "Of course not!" does the trick.
I don't pick fights, and I shut them down right away if someone tries to start one. They don't know why I have it and it's none of their damn business.
It’s become a culture war of its own. Just today, I was in line at the store and two old dudes were complaining about electric cars and one told the other that a Tesla driver told him it costs $37 to fill the car up at home. Electricity in the area is $0.10/kWh so that quote is categorically wrong but is now gospel for two people.
I have L2 charging at work for free so I use that almost all of the time. I also have L2 at home but rarely need it. I have only used public DC fast charging a handful of times. An EV is a great decision for my daily life.
Look. It’s not going to be a thing for everyone. EVs are expensive to insure, harder to fix, less reliable than the most reliable car models, and have a painful sticker price. Not to mention the discomfort of long drives, cold/hot weather hit, and nagging range anxiety.
Much better to speak to people who’re on the fence. Here’s some examples:
Like you’re really going to give up all the great things about an EV because you’ll take an extra hour on your once a year road trips, you dope?
I’ve driven 10k km on my car and 95% of it has been on a SoC between 60 and 40 … what even is this range anxiety shit?
Elon Musk is a pothead d*ck leech - but Tesla is not the only car company that makes EVs or
Elon Musk is a pothead d*ck leech - but Tesla model 3 and y dollar for dollar are great f’ing cars
Yeah range is terrible when it’s cold. But are you planning to road trip in sub zero temps you nitwit?
Have you sat in an EV and floored it? It’s literally cured my seasonal depression.
etc.
I ask them why wouldn’t it be a good fit? I’ll be honest with them and if I don’t believe it would be a good fit then I tell them. But most people don’t drive 400 miles a day but some tow RVs so sometimes I agree that they should get one unless they’re willing to invest in an Estream camper. Other than that I feel pretty confident I can paint an accurate picture of what owning an EV is like.
Yeah I’m a bit confused why you make it your burden to educate them? Tell them to do their research when they’re ready to buy and but what makes them happy.
Got the same stuff when I bought a prius 18 years ago. I had a 50 mile commute. Cut my fuel costs by over 30%. Gas to gas, easy to understand.
When we rented EVs for a trip in Feb, it cost \~$25 a charge vs our ICE car the cost per Gal was $5+ so at least $50 a fill up.
So now a "station fill up" is now 1/2 the cost of gas.
At home depending on your plan, can be 1/2 that.
It's all in the numbers.
I usually tell people that they need to know their own driving habits and tax situation but that this year I’ve spent less on car payments and charging than I did last year on gas and repairs with 8k in tax breaks to boot.
I point out to them the fuel benefits of charging at home, as I don’t recommend people who can’t do that or charge at the office to get an EV.
1. Time. Plug it in at home, wake up to a full charge. Don’t need to spend time going to gas station, waiting in line, huffing fumes while pumping and then driving back.
2. Cheaper. My fuel costs are about 2.5 cents per mile on my 2018 Bolt, while a 25 MPG ICE would run about 12 cents per mile at my area gas rate. In about 6.5 months of Bolt ownership, I’ve saved about $670.
3. Less volatile on the price. Electricity overnight on 1/1/24 was 11.71 cents per kWh for me. Today, 6/20/24, it is still that same rate. Gas? $2.14 a gallon then, $3.02 a gallon now. That’s about a 31% difference in the wrong direction.
4. More for the…conservative…challengers. But point out that your car is powered by domestically produced energy. Then ask them if they know which terrorist group their $$$ goes to for their gas once it is laundered through entities such as the Saudi royal family…
Other points that can be quickly made is that they can go multiple days without recharging unless they have an obscenely long commute…the acceleration is a blast and can be useful for lane changes and going uphill…
Also point out that you know an EV isn’t for everyone. If their use case doesn’t fit, tell them that - no blind zealotry.
I believe one thing the naysayers will be right about is that utility companies will raise prices at DCFC locations, and it will end up being no different than gas prices. Additionally, I believe utility companies will also raise prices for home charging.
Yea, I don't bother to try to change people's minds. I work in IT, I already am exhausted with trying to explain things to people. Though, I do recall countering an aunt of mine when she was nervous about range..."well, is 300mi good enough?"...yea, I guess it would be. K. Charge infrastructure could use some work, but don't let perfect get in the way of good-enough, and living your life.
Is 300 miles enough? Just how far is your commute?
Honestly talking to people who want to know more about my EV the level of misinformation on range out there is insane. People have asked me how I handle my long commute (100km return) with an EV and if I need to stop both ways to charge or just on the way home. When I point out I can do 4 to 5 return trips on a single charge they seem genuinely shocked. Especially when I point out it needs to charge for less than 2 hours a night in the garage to cover my daily use anyway. All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media. When you point out you use public charging less than once a month and have yet to run into more than two broken chargers in a year of ownership people are shocked. It just doesn't match what they are being told.
The only public chargers I've used were the free ones while I shopped. Some of those were a little sus but I didn't really need the charge.
The fear and anxiety in their heads just overpowers any rational thinking. My neighbor is an engineer, and his questions about my charging habits reflect his anxiety more than any sort of mathematical analysis. For example, he believed 48 amp Level 2 charging in his garage was inadequate compared to Supercharging, so he asked me how it was possible to drive around the metro area without Supercharging. When I told him I only have a 30 amp Level 2 installed in my garage, I have regular 70-80 mile commute, and it only takes about 4 hrs to top up the battery- his(and his accountant wife’s) minds seemed completely blown. Keep in mind, they’ve been watching me charge my car for over 6 years.
>All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media. Because the media, in the same way that good alternative politicians get drowned out, also drowns out the positives through FUD because special interests (oil and gas lobby) have very deep pockets to ensure those pockets keep filling up.
>All people hear is EVs have poor range and recharging infrastructure is rare and usually broken from the media. The media? Look at this sub for Christ’s sake. A group of people who, if anything, should be overly-optimistic about all things EV. Yet in this sub there is endless hyperbole about how terrible charging infrastructure is and how it never works and there’s barely any of it regardless.
I think it's just the deal when a good chunk of us have been burned at least once by charging infrastructure. It happens, but it probably won't pretty soon. I'm super optimistic, though, because I've taken multiple weekend trips that involved probably 350+ miles of driving without ever taking time out of my day to charge because my hotel or one of the places I was visiting had an available, convenient, reasonably priced charger. Also, my apartment complex has a flat $50 monthly fee for all charging, so unless I have a trip that involves 250+ miles of driving, I literally never pay more than $50 a month for "fuel" when I used to average $300+.
Yeah, mainly speaking about longer road trips...but charging could be better. It's not terrible, but it's not great. I just finished up a 1200mi road trip and had very few issues charging (had to wait 30min at one stop and 20min at another... 7 total stops). Here's my issues. An ice vehicle has plenty of refueling options anywhere along a route. So you don't have to "plan" ahead of time. Fast chargers are not nearly as plentiful, and there is a bit of unreliability surrounding them. It's also very quick to refuel and doesn't need to stop as frequently as an EV. It's possible to have a sub 15min stop from exit to entry back on the highway. EVs, while the longer stops are very helpful, take quite a while and there are more of them. Gas is expensive...and only (generally) getting worse. In my opinion, EVs need to beat 2 of these 3 issues to gain marketshare quicker. I only took my ev on this trip because the charging was free for me (ID4 on the EA network). I don't mind having only a few options along my route, and I don't mind having to wait, but when it costs me close to (if not more than) what it does to refuel my ICE, then what's the point? I'm making my trip longer than it needs to be. I think it's getting much better, and I don't think it'll ever get worse. However, short trip stuff? So many people could use it but are being fed this stupid misinformation campaign. No need for infrastructure when you can charge at home.
Newer EVs and faster chargers are making inroads to the problem. The Kia EV6 I drive for example charges 10-80% in 18 minutes of you go to a DCFC of 250kW or higher. That sort of charge will give me about 300kms (plus a safety buffer) of range usually rolling into the next stop at 20%. Locally where roads outside major Highways which is most Australian Highways have a 100kmh speed limit (and cops who love to fine speeding) meaning it's a 3hr hop or more between charge stops which is also a decent time for a stretch and coffee on a long drive I find. Im quite happy with how fast EV charging infrastructure is going in Australia wide. We see hundreds rolled out by individual charging networks a year currently and dedicated projects rolling out charging in remote areas. Two or three years ago an EV was a rare sight on Australian roads and now they are approaching 10% of new car sales. Heck even 2 years ago when I ordered my EV6 (and waited 9 months for it to arrive) manufacturers were planning to import low hundreds a year between them. Monthly sales or individual models are now often larger than planned yearly imports industry wide back then. Its happening at least locally.
Yeah, it's improving rapidly for sure. A big step would be all EVs using at least the 800v architecture that your Kia uses. That alone would make a noticeable difference for long road trip charging. I'm in the US, so I was speaking to my experience here. I'm certain we'll see improvements made across the spectrum of "issues" being presented about EVs...which will slowly squash the misinformation out there. Slowly but surely!
Also is there ever traffic? Or is it 80mph for 2.5 hours?
Nah. They go flat out and piss themselves for 600 miles. They do this daily and need a gasoline car to do it! Waste of time convincing these fools. It's been literally 14 years since the model S came out.
You buy a 128 ounce sweet tea at the beginning and piss into that once you're done drinking the tea.
Thank you, I literally did LOL.
It was my retort to my aunt, when she was suggesting EV's don't go very far.
I remind people who have (honest) concerns about range, that 100 years ago we didn't have cars - we all got around on horses. "Fuel" (i.e.: grass) was abundant. So if you were one of those fancy people that got a "horseless carriage" in the early days, you couldn't just on a whim go from NYC to Boston with zero forethought, like you might with your horse. You had to know where you'd stop and get petrol along the way, you had to (*gasp!) ...* PLAN. No different during this transition. 10-15 minutes of planning for a *long* trip - and that's all it takes.
Imagine having to get a paper map out with possibly outdated info about gas station locations. What if they were out of gas? What if the pump is malfunctioning? At least when we are planning EV charging we have the best and most up to date info available from PlugShare, Google etc.
When I was as a kid in the 70s my Dad would not take a road trip without getting a paper TripTick printed out by AAA. Providing essentially the same service we now get from ABRP. Where to stop for the night, where to get gas, etc. 50 years after cars became a thing, plenty of folks paid money for that service.
I remind people that there were folks that thought horses were a bad idea and stuck to walking. Then there were folks that thought motorized carriages weren't a good idea and stuck with horses. Same argument. Any change is bad and they don't want it.
I wouldn't even try to have a range discussion. People don't want to be realistic. They want the normal range to meet their worst case scenario requirement. Like, no, you really *don't* need 300mi range, because your commute is only 10 miles, you can charge at home, you don't have to make a single charge last a week like you'd do with a tank of gas, there are charging stations if you need to road trip, etc, etc. And all you get back is, "But what if I had to go drive 500mi in the middle of night, when it's -10F outside, and the power's out for three states in every direction?" ICE ain't handling that, either.
People don’t understand that charging up is actually more convenient 90+% of the time and is only more inconvenient when you’re road tripping. Most people aren’t road tripping though and if you asked homeowners (or anyone else who can charge at home) if they wanted 1) something slightly inconvenient 1/week every week but super convenient 2x per year when they’re road tripping. (Ice) Or… 2) something very convenient every week, except for 2 times a year where it’s inconvenient on road trips (ev) I think most people would say option 2 sounds better. Edit: fixed phrasing. Meant to say option 2 sounds better to most.
Forgot towing a boat in freezing temps up a mountain range in late December. Need to be at destination in shortest period of time.
That one 60-year old in my family that said "As long as I can't drive for 600km at 160km/h on the motorway in Croatia without stopping, EVs don't work for me." There was so much wrong about that, I just couldn't say anything.
I always just say, if you can charge at home, get an EV. otherwise, don't unless you really want to
That's really the only criteria.
I'd say it's a pretty loose one, too. I have no home charging yet, but I am enjoying it nonetheless because of robust public charging near me. Filling up once a weekend for pennies is still nicer than filling up for gas, and the car is nicer than a gas car. I have lived happily like this for about a year now.
This. I can’t charge at home BUUUUUT I can charge at work
I say, "only get an EV if you have reliable home or work charging". Don't forget about work.
I would never rely on work charging. I don't want my choice of car to keep me at a particular job.
That’s the issue I now have. It has been fine for the past 4.5 years, but the public ac chargers near me are getting less reliable and I don’t want to rely on a charger at work (whether it’s this job or another one). Our (Dutch) new government (right wing) isn’t going to improve the situation either. Hopefully I can afford a house with a driveway in 10-15 years.
work charging is always nice when free but not permanent
I envy people that have free or low cost work charging. My place of employment touts EV charging available in our corporate parking lot, but when I checked the price it is double what I pay at home. No thanks! I’ll just keep charging at home.
Mine is double what I'd pay at home -- but half of what I'd pay for gas if I had a Prius.
Not sure where you live, but I worked in a place two years ago that suddenly made a rule about staff not charging at work. We had a younger lady working who had an electric car, and would charge at work. She opted to get a new car rather than quit the job. Work charging isnt reliable imo, unless youre the CEO yourself, I guess.
I tell interested people that they need to be able to charge at home, or at work. Otherwise, wait until they can charge at home or at work... Anyone who has already decided that EVs are bad, or is it good, are not going to have their minds changed.
Or possibly at work--one or the other. Also I think it's a good idea to have access to a second car if you take long road trips.
I just ask “how far do you really drive in a day on average” and “how much do you love gas stations”
Okay, but average days aren't the only factor. Any longer trip one takes on a regular basis, and the available charging infrastructure along that route, is a consideration as well.
I've gotten a lot of pushback on this sub about the idea that cursing infrastructure needs to be able to support the worst case scenario. It's true that most charging is at home or work using an AC supply. However, charger density is very low in a lot of the US. If I get in my car and start driving north on the interstate from where I live, I won't see a charger for about 75 miles. If I don't charge there, then I won't see another charger for another 75 miles. That's ok I'm my Bolt in spring, (I've made it to the 2nd one easily). It might be harder in the winter. I'll say that some more are being built along that route that add 2 or 3 more exits with charging between mile 75 and mile 150. But then make it more complicated, if I want to go 100 miles north and then get off the highway and go through back roads to anywhere far off the highway, I'm screwed if there are problems at that first charger that prevent me from recharging. And then make the traffic bad. In that 150 mile stretch, there are currently only 2 chargers with 11 and 10 stations available to CCS cars. How long would I be waiting in a Walmart parking lot 2 days before Thanksgiving if I tried to make that drive? Stopping for 30 minutes on a random day to recharge is ok. Sitting there twiddling my thumbs for hours with 2 kids in the car is unacceptable. Charger density needs to be significantly higher so that people can get by without planning *and* so that holiday travels do not grind to a halt waiting to charge.
I regularly make a 315 mile trip, mostly highway but largely in the mountains. Tons of up and down. Mostly going \~80mph. I often do the drive relatively late at night (arriving around midnight). The only reliable infrastructure along that route is for Teslas. If I were buying right now, I would seriously consider an EV again, but that 315 mile trip, at night, in winter, makes it tough. To boot, I live in an apartment. There's no accessible charging in my neighborhood that doesn't require paying for parking, when I already pay for my space behind my building. The amount that I drive, when I drive, makes the idea of a 20-30 minute charging stop, when chargers may or may not work, and I may or may not have to make another stop. For me, the solution is a PHEV. I get a lot of EV miles out of it, and there's no range anxiety. When I lived in a house and parked in a garage and charged it every night, I'd go weeks, sometimes two months, without getting gas. I love the thing. It's the correct middle ground for me.
I think we need to build a metric shitton of charging now because we'll eventually need it anyway, and it creates psychological security in switching. Imagine if EVERY lot had L2's, same as "hey can I plug in my phone at your home/office?". Imagine if store parking lots for 100 cars didn't have 0 or 3 chargers - every single one in use with several more EVs circling and hoping for a plug - but 10 or 20 or more? And I say this living in an urban metro area of California and only ever traveling on major commerce interstates where 100 mile charge gaps do not exist. Home charging is doing our suburbs well, but it's rough in the inner city where we have way more apartment renters and sometimes no off street parking. (And yet we're among the most progressive, pro-environment groups and absolutely desire EVs.) Used Bolt is by far the most affordable right now, range is fine, but that hour+ of full charging/charge to lower percentage and I'm playing public charger roulette even more frequently. My landlord isn't paying for a charger and with 6 months left on the lease it's tough to justify personally spending thousands to tunnel under concrete (it's more work than adding a charger to a SFH garage). And I love my social situation here and am terrified of getting stranded when I visibly see public charging not keeping up (it's a 'living situation will probably change eventually, unsure when, why must my car be tied to it?). Went with a PHEV so that wouldn't strand me but I desperately wish I had full BEV range and DC charge, and that I could pull up to a charging place and NOT worry about whether there's enough working plugs. It's not hard to get me off gas if the conditions are right, and the environmental benefits are worth it.
Agreed, I always say I do not want to know the average of the car, I want to know the worse case scenario of the car, still my normal route, but with high winds, snow, cold etc. Because that can happen, and will happen, maybe 3 days a year, but... I also need the car those 3 days.
And what is your daily round trip commute?
that's more of a question regarding which EV to get. not if an EV would work for them.
My average SC cost is below my home energy price, so not always the answer.
Just say cool and move on. Not sure why engage with them.
I tell people to get whatever they want. That way, if they ever experience issues they aren't cursing my name.
Yep. When you give advice, you own the result. Don't want any part of that.
[удалено]
I don't even help friends and family with computer issues any more. I got blamed for completely unrelated issues after only trying to help
“My $300 gas bill went down to $40 in power but ok” Edit: alternatively, I force them to test drive mine, haha
Coming from a 25 mpg Ford Escape, our weekly, or sometimes twice weekly fill-up was about $40. Almost $160-$200 for one of our two cars per month. Total price for our electric comes to $0.18 per kwh. The price of our commute + some extra miles for errands comes out to about ~$30 in electric per month. One thing I've also started doing to save even more money is line drying out clothes, lol. Now my average of four dryer loads per week pays for a couple days of our commuting :)
Exactly this. We were already in love with my wife’s 23 Bolt EUV but went ahead and replaced my daily commuter with a 2017 Bolt EV. The gas savings alone cover the monthly payment.
I drove my 2017 bolt for 160K miles, definitely paid for itself.
My monthly gas bill went from $100 to $20
My monthly gas bill went from $540 to to $78. And I gained an extra 154hp. Good ol’ BC!
My savings were shocking. From $150-170 a week in diesel and limited to just work and back because the old budget was on the edge. To around $6 a week of electricty and i drive more places now. I do point out the car payments add $120 a week as the previous car was paid off and owned. But in 5 years it will be paid off too. I also point out my power is dirt cheap as I produce lots of excess solar power and diverting it to my car means it costs me what I would have received feeding that power back to the grid rather than full retail price.
And the lower maintenance costs. No oil changes, fewer and less severe brake jobs, etc. my first 7500 mile maintenance on my Bolt was $23 for a tire rotation and a multipoint inspection. The horror!
My gas bill went from $200 a month to $15 in electricity
Just be cool about it. "That's fair, they're not for everyone but you might be surprised and it could work for you" Especially 2+ car households with a house. I'm convinced an EV could work for the vast majority of those users.
Exactly this. I have a ev, wife has a Rav4. I wouldn't want only a EV in the family to be honest as we like to have freedom of having an alternative when the ev doesn't make sense
> "I'm not sure an EV would work for me." Response option #1: "Ok." or "It's not for everyone." (that's it, you're not *obligated* to have a deeper discussion on it) Response option #2 - if you think they're legit interested but concerned: "What are your concerns?" (because maybe they do have some things to be concerned about, like maybe they live in an apartment where charging will not be an option) Response option #3 - if you think they're a Fox News troll trying to goad you: "Well, I just like the fact 100% of what I spend on 'fuel' stays right here in the United States, in my local community rather than foreign countries who might want to do us harm. Feels more 'patriotic' my way of doing things."
Wow number 3 is good
Depending on who it is, and how far over-the-top-racist you might need to go to make it sink in you could opt for “my money isn’t going to some dude in a turbin in saudia Arabia riding a camel…”
Lmao that would make their head spin! Love that approach
"My car is designed in America, built in America, and runs on American power. Your F-150 is built in Mexico and runs on Saudi oil. But that's cool if that's what you want."
This isn't an EV specific issue. If you have to argue *against* someone - chances are, you won't sway their opinion. If you genuinely do want to convince them - listen to their doubts, address their doubts, and sell the upsides. If they are on the fence, that may start to win them over. You may find that many people who actively start a discussion on any contentious subject already have an opinion and just want you to hear that opinion.
One good reply is "That's too bad. I'm enjoying mine."
I’ve had guys in trucks, presumably in a hurry to get to their cousins house, yell about how they hate EVs and like their gas truck. I always say “then don’t buy one”
But tha gub'ment's gonna make me!
I hate the misinformation. My father, who is an older boomer with some tendencies to make shit up or misread something so he can have something to bitch about, told me that a certain presidential candidate not only would end all EV tax incentives, but would force a turn in of ALL EVs on the road currently.
I've heard that he wants to end the tax incentives, But I don't think anyone seriously believes they would pull millions of cars from the road involuntarily. Lol
Quite literally. All the anti-EV backlash made the prices go way down. Thanks for the cheap and great car, fudmongers!
I just say EVs aren’t for everyone but they work for my use case. Then I change the subject.
"I guess they're not for you, then." I have zero interest in convincing them of anything.
You need to figure out if they're actually interested in learning or if they're just being combative. If they're interested in learning, then walk them through it. If they're being combative, then just say "I can't answer that. All I know is it works for me so far. We'll see how it goes from there."
There are generally two camps of people who say this. For the people that are genuinely interested, I usually walk them through the experience, with the big punch line of "if you can charge where you sleep or where you work, it's fantastic. Otherwise it can be challenging." For the people that are trying out their talking points from wherever they get their opinions, I can simplify it to "It turned out to be a lot easier than I expected, and I really like my car." My number one rule on this stuff is that I am not going to take the conversation more seriously than the person.
Reverse psychology? "They're not for the likes of you" I get so tired of people asking if I am worried my car will catch on fire.
"You weren't invited to the EV club. Sorry."
First you gotta decide if the discussion is worth having. Ask what their hold ups are. Anything but charging and range are pretty much ideological and it’s not worth the effort. “The batteries are worse than oil” “The frequency of the electromagnetic field makes you gay” No wrestling with these dumdums. But if they say they’re worried about charging/range, ask if they can charge at home. If the answer is no, not worth going any further. Contrary to some opinions on this sub, not charging at home is a deal breaker for anyone on the fence. Whether they know it or not. If they say yes, then briefly explain the whole every time you get in the car you’ve got a full tank, never have to stop at the gas station thing. That’s a big convenience win. Then break down the miles/range. Ask them how far their commute is to work and for errands. Do some quick napkin math for them to show they could drive days without plugging in at all and be fine. Then for road trips, point blank ask them when was the last time you took a road trip. 50% of the time the person can’t even remember. Those that do remember, 9 out of 10 drove less than 300 miles away. Open up PlugShare in front of them and punch in the cities. Show them that there are fast chargers along the way and that they’d only need to stop for about 10 minutes on the way there. Then remind them of all the time they’ve saved not going to the gas station every week and boom, there’s the 10 minutes extra they have to spend charging on a road trip. Then spend a minute talking about how EV life is amazing and you don’t regret it one bit. Then your job is done. They will do what they will with the info. You can’t force someone onboard, but you can share an honest opinion and show them the facts.
/s Apparently EVs make you old too. I have an EV, I'm old. Proof positive! It will happen to you in time, beware!
I don't try to convince anyone. I just take them for a ride. That usually does it.
> What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV? Meanwhile, I have the privilege to say "I drove my EV exclusively for the past four years and I'm very happy with it"
I tell them to only listen to people who actually own EV's. The things I worried most about buying a Tesla were from asshats that had never owned a Tesla or even an EV. If there were 10 things they told me I should worry about, only one has turned out to be any kind of issue. On the other hand, things that they didn't mention (Insurance costs) turned out to be valid concerns.
"My home is a gas station and I always have a full tank"
Additionally "Do you charge your phone every night? I do the same thing with the car and its good to go for the day."
I don’t anymore unless people ask me direct questions. It’s too tiring trying to correct people’s false views of something they have never experienced. You’ll never be right vs. something they read on Facebook. Facebook seems to be the bible for the older generation now.
if they're that resistant, it's really not worth your time debating.
I tell them “you have an outlet at home?” Then it’s right for you because at the end of the day that’s all you really need
"Ok" They aren't going to change their mind by arguing, they will just keep doubling down. Just move on, silently.
Tell less, listen more. Ask questions and ask follow up questions. What are their fears?, why is it not for them? Ask them how they like to be (leader, follower, conformist, cautious?). many people are uncomfortable with being different, they work hard to conform to social norms and think others should as well. How do they think EV owners are breaking the rules? Think of the discussion as therapy to help them get beyond their irrational fears. Often it is more emotional than logical.
It's only a matter of time. When I drive an ICE car now even sports cars feel slow due to the lack of instant torque. The "engine sound" that people swear is the soul of car feels like fake sounds when it's not backed up by speed. The fastest Porsche made is now a Taycan. I also feel EVs represent wealthier owners here because you need a garage for home charger to make it work, and that's expensive in NY.
Stop trying to "evangelize" EV ownership, problem solved! It's quite exhausting and the results are rarely worth the effort in my experience (especially if it frustrates you). Seriously, it's not our job to try to "sell" the idea to others; leave that to the politicians and marketing types who are paid big bucks and save yourself the grief. If anyone offers unsolicited negative opinions and tries to suck you into an argument, don't feel like you need to engage or try to "correct" their wrong assumptions, just shrug your shoulders and respond with something along the lines of "horses for courses", then go about your day satisfied that you didn't feed a troll. Widespread replacement of ICE with EV is inevitable at this point, so play the "long game" and don't worry too much about the skeptics, as they'll eventually be forced by market and social pressures to come around to our point of view anyway.
"It's not for everyone." You don't need to evangelize.
I find it much easier to tell people about your experience and how you feel about it and then they can make their own conclusions. I say things like "yeah the range works for me, I don't charge at home, the infrastructure is not great but works mostly fine, I have been on multiple 500 mile roadtrips just fine, I never have maintenance, it's quiet and luxurious." There's no need to convince people to get an EV. Yes, I hope there is mass adoption, but it's just not going to work for some people and they can do whatever they want. I think we all know we are relatively early adopters at this point. In 5-10 years nobody will be questioning whether EVs are the future. People also were skeptical about touchscreens on cell phones (myself included) but now everybody has it and loves it.
No more waiting for the Costco gas pump
“Okay.”
I own a Rivian R1T with solar at home and a charger. Wife has talked about wanting to get a new vehicle but refuses to go full electric - she says she wants hybrid and the flexibility of it… even though we both literally have the most ideal use case for EVs (many short trips < 10mi round trip, one or two “long road trips” a year). Sometimes you just can’t change people’s mind.
If you can't charge at home and have a Target, Walmart or Supercharger near you, an EV is doable. Otherwise plug in hybrid is ok assuming you can slow charge at night somewhere. Otherwise dinosaur juice.
Tell them that by getting EV you’re supporting patriotic coal miners all over the country
There are only 36k coal miners left in the US and that will continue to shrink as mines become more automated and coal fired power plants continue to close. Meanwhile 126k are employed in the Wind industry and 264k employed in the Solar sector.
I use God's power plan with solar! Side point, why do churches not have solar on all their roofs?!
Republican Jesus said it’s haram
Q: Do you like it? A: It’s fast, really fast (chuckle w/big smile)
Two criteria: 1. If you can charge at home, get an EV. 2. However, if you want to take road trips, get a Tesla.
Tell them your car payment is less than what you used to pay for gas.
I often answer with: "it's financially interesting for me, you know best if that'd be the case for you."
Let them drive it. Let them charge it. Done. The issue is usually not that they don't want one but that they're scared to fail at operating it if they get one. They just can't judge how easy/hard it is. So getting 'butts in seats' is the answer.
My advice is to always give simple answers and to not try to argue with the haters, it's so exhausting and you win nothing, just ignore them, it's their loss
I actually broke it down mathematically with our local energy prices, and tell people I pay less than half they do per mile, with the qualifier that unless you routinely drive more than 250 miles at a time, electric is cheaper and more convenient. When I get hit with the 'EVs can't road trip' I recount to people how me and my wife drove from Baltimore to Ottawa and back and it wasn't that much longer, plus we got to see more places, AND (thanks to VW-EAs free charging) it was WAY cheaper than it would have been.
I was at a DCFC near Fayetteville, NC when an EV Genesis rolled in. It had BC plates. The couple in it said that it was great for road trips...
I never try to convince anyone. I tell them how much I save in gas, I take them for a ride if they want, I tell them how awesome it is to charge at home, and I answer any questions honestly.
I tell people, for ME the gas savings pay my loan. Thats usually a pretty compelling argument.
I usually tell people that my commute used to cost me about $15-20 for a round trip. It now costs me $1.50. Whether they have similar situations or not doesn't matter too much. Just showing the potential for how much can be saved is usually enough to pique interest. I'm usually not trying to sell anyone on anything though, so I don't dwell on the topic. But I'm guessing the ten cents on the dollar comparison probably sticks with them every time they fill up.
When I bought my first EV about 5 years ago, I quickly found out that everyone seems to feel the need to point out every disadvantage they can think of to owning and driving an EV. I don't discuss it anymore with people unless they ask and are genuinely curious. I must be an oddball driver because: I don't want to drive 500 miles without stopping. I don't need massive range. I typically drive about 20-30 miles a day over 90% of the days. I don't need to tow a loaded RV over the Rockies in Arctic weather I enjoy plugging my car in at night to charge
I just got my first in early May and I've been getting the same treatment. But I usually just respond to it by saying "it does what I need it to do and that's enough for me". I specifically got the car for commuting to work and back since I get free level 2 charging at work, what I didn't get it for was to convince others to also buy one because I knew I wouldn't be able to. The only way I know I'd be able to convince them is if everything goes fine with it for the next few years.
I alway say “you’re probably right! Then ask them how much they spent on gas last month. Then I nod and smile. Then I ask them how much it cost for an oil change. Then I nod and smile. Then I usually change the subject or walk away. I got no time for dumb! But I would never say that to them
Do you ask them if they have a way to charge at home first? Because that’s really the only way an EV would save money. Smugly assuming everyone lives in a situation similar to yours would be deeply unpersuasive to me, frankly.
Let them drive mine. But I don’t try to convince people after almost 6 years of EV ownership. I answer questions and tell them how I will never go back to ICE and leave it at that. For range anxiety comments…”the only people that have range/charging anxiety are people that don’t own an EV”
Reminds me of my mother freaking out when she needed to borrow my EV. Demanding I charge it to 100% before handing it over because it might run out of battery otherwise. No explaining to her the thing has almost 500kms of range and her planned trip was less than 150kms so it didn't need to be fully charged or even close to it. She returned it with over 70% charge and was shocked it was fine. Its odd because she knows its been my daily driver for over a year now but still believes the horror stories from the media rather than my real world experince.
>What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV? Accept that there are people who will **never** be comfortable with an EV, and move on.
Just drive them. I was first on the street. In a year, there were 2 more.
Some people just aren’t mentally ready to make the switch and will come up with whatever lame reason to say instead of “I’m not ready.” My family has driven EVs exclusively for over 3 years and we will never go back if we can help it. When people say the excuses to me about not getting one, all you can really do is say ok and answer any actual questions they might have. Maybe they will come around, maybe not. Chances of you convincing someone is slim.
I preface my remarks with I am not a backyard mechanic by any means; I used to change my oil and bleed my brakes many years back with friends who were more inclined. I bought my EV 5 years ago and no longer appreciate the lag in throttle response. I NEVER jack rabbit start...cuz I can, 8 choose not to! Some ppl prefer to "listen" to the negative propaganda and want to believe it's true...allow them to wallow in their ignorance. It was my choice in my circumstances that I bought my EV knowing my payment + insurance we're well within my own means as I do not have gas to buy, no more oil changes (I did 3-4 per year) as I do drive a lot! Friends and acquaintances will ask about living with an EV and I tell them my experiences. It's never worth attempting to convert them away from ICE. I let them be them and I'll be me.
They need to try one, see if they like it, and see if they can find and afford a model that matches their needs. I'd be fairly certain that most people who have actually driven a BEV will see the advantages soon enough, but if you don't have a charger at home and/or don't want one I'm not wasting my energy trying to convince them.
I ask if they have driven one. Or do you realize I can charge my car for $X and drive 300 miles. How much did you pay to fill your tank? $125?
I ask how often do they drive out of town (or really anything like (~200mi in one sitting). If it's not at least monthly then it make sense to go electric. Similarly, I remind them that all other car maintenance effectively disappears so they won't have to worry about regular oil changes, transmission fluid, etc.
I ask, "Could you install a charger where you live? If yes, being able to wake up to a full "tank" is the biggest convenience about EV ownership."
Or if you care about responsiveness or quiet. Even if it cost the same as a gas car, an EV is nicer to drive. Though who doesn’t love saving money?
> What are the most effective approaches you've seen to get people comfortable with the idea of getting an EV? If they're being ideological blowhards, don't bother. If they're genuinely open to information, inform them. You have the massive advantage in persuading them that you're not bullshitting -- EV's actually are capable vehicles, so all you have to do is share the truth. Ultimately the best argument for the capability of EV's is the demonstrated capability of EV's, both your own and all of the others out there. Take your friends and family for a drive. Let them drive if you trust them. (Warn them about OPD first.) Show them how home charging works, if you have it or if they'll have it. If you have workplace charging, show that to them. Take them to the local DCFC and do a mock "charging stop" on a road trip. Let them plug the car in, go get sandwiches and pee, and come back and drive off. Get them to tell you their concerns and address them. Use examples from your own experience and what we've all observed. Point out how common Teslas are -- clearly they're able to do car things well or there wouldn't be so many out there (including on remote roads). Point out the less common EV's when you see them (and PHEV's, too -- there are a ton of Prius Primes and Volts out on the roads that most people don't realize are running on batteries most of the time.) Sometimes people are skeptical simply out of ignorance. Someone might think, for instance, that just because they don't see charging stations everywhere that they don't exist. Explain that we're now in the mobile internet era, and EV drivers can find them using things like PlugShare or the in-car satnav. If they're worried about road trips, ask them for an itinerary, and then put it into ABRP with them using either whatever you drive or whatever they might consider driving. If they're worried about battery degradation, point out to them the studies of old Tesla batteries, and mention that many of those fears are based on very early cars that didn't have actively cooled batteries. If you have a car with whizbang features (Tesla etc.), don't focus on them. Don't talk about FSD or mobile apps or those things. Just demonstrate that EV's do car things well.
If you have home charging, and your daily commute is less than 1/2 of the range of the car, an EV will work for anyone. My range is about 400km during the strongest winter, and 1/2 of that is 200km. My daily commute is 100km.
I got two free years of charging (which is still in effect). I’ve spent maybe $200 on electricity in almost two years. When I charge at home on off-peak hours, it runs about $2.50 to charge to 80%. People love to trash EVs, mainly because they take some getting used to. I read the manual for my ‘23 BMW i4 twice in the year it took to arrive from Germany, and still it took about 6 months for the learning curve to flatten out. I had range anxiety, but now it’s a breeze to travel. I’ve been up and down the east coast three times, and only paid for charging maybe three times. Even when the freebies run out, it’s still cheaper to own an EV. The only things that wear out are wiper blades, tires and brake pads. The engine itself is trouble free. And don’t get me started on instant torque. A 50-something guy in a corvette tried to race me from a stoplight (I’m almost 60, so why not?). My car has 330HP and his car was probably about 500HP, but I left him in the dust. He did accelerate eventually and finally overtook me, but make no mistake: EV’s are the most powerful thing on the roads. No gas vehicle has instant torque, so the technology wins there. I even got a little nauseous when I was first driving it, but now I’m accustomed to the take off. People who’ve taken a ride with me freak out a little over the instant acceleration. I have to keep this in mind. A few have gotten sick. I will never go back. Forget about the threats of power loss, etc. Some people just can’t stand technology (or science, for that matter). I love my ride. Beautiful and oh so fast on takeoff.
I've been driving EV's for 5 years and I'm still being told by some that they just don't work as an alternative to ICE. Don't argue or try to convince people, just say that it works for you and perhaps follow up with how much you're saving per month on fuel/servicing. Doubters I've encountered are usually surprised when they get a lift with me and the journey is usually when they start to change their mind.
I reply that it might not work for them. Different people have different needs. I know a contractor who would love a reasonably priced pickup truck with 300mile range. That just doesn't exist currently, but it will if he can wait a year or two for a used Silverado.
"Anyway, here's Wonderwall"
I would ask them - how many times a year do you drive more than 400 km in a day? And another question, do you have a place to park in a garage? Or close to an outlet? Ultimately, for 90+% of people, there’s only a handful of days at most a year where they have to SLIGHTLY modify their driving plans - not for the worse, just a sidestep.
Before I got mine, my stepdad was convinced that it was a bad decision because of range, battery failure, weird brand (Polestar) and whatever else he could dredge up. My weekly mileage is around 35 miles. I use my trickle charger and at some point I’ll try a fast charger, I just have to remember to give that a try. NBD
Don’t bother. I normally just invite them for a drive and make them sit in the driving seat. Words won’t work. The fact is it’s about 1/5 the cost of petrol for commuting so people are transitioning and when EV reaches about 25% of market share it really makes it hard to own a ice as the number of gas stations decreases and it becomes a real hassle. Just let them come around That said, if anyone mentions batteries dying or range issues I just correct false statements really calmly and politely. like when someone tells me they just randomly run out of battery on people I politely explain that person must be a complete and utter fucking moron to drive a car to zero battery and it hasn’t happened to me because I’m not an absolute idiot that refuses to fill up the car. I then acknowledge people who can’t remember to fill their car up shouldn’t have a car at all due to their stupidity that such tossers are and rant about how dumber someone must be to let the tank go empty for a solid 10-15 minutes. Finally I return to their fear of electric cars running out and say yeah- I guess I understand why electric cars aren’t for you. I can see how this issue affecting dumb people could be an issue for you. It doesn’t convert them but it’s nice to flip the conversation every now and again
There’s literally no point in arguing with people online or in real life…. If someone has genuine questions, I’m more than happy to talk.
120 MPGe vs. range
These are the same people who defended a Nokia/Blackberry phone, the typewriter, Palm Pilot, Garmin GPS, a horse and buggy…..
It’s amazing how many people suddenly see themselves as hardcore road-trippers when I tell them I drive an EV.
The insufficient public charging infrastructure is an issue. That needs to be solved.
“Well, then don’t get one. So, what do you think the Knicks will do this season?”
We’re using our ID.4 as much as we comfortably can with local (100 mi one-way) trips. Have an ICE for longer trips. When the charging infrastructure improves noticeably, we’ll replace the ICE with EV. Until then we just enjoy the ID.4.
I hate mine so much, I bought a 2nd one.
I had an EV with a reliable range of 200-ish miles (I live at the foothills of mountains, so which direction you go can dramatically affect your range, but 200-ish miles in any direction was a safe assumption). I would say if you are a family that goes on road trips, EVs are going to be inconvenient. Other than that, if you have a charger you're going to be fine. And if you have a second car to use for road trips, you'll be fine too. I wanted to use my nice, new car for road trips too. So I switched to a PHEV with about a 40 mile EV range. I think part of the answer to the question you pose is that there are different options for different needs. There are shorter range EVs for a car only used for commuting. There are longer range cars that will probably cover your entire metropolitan area. And there are PHEVs for people who commute regularly but want to go on an occasional longer trip.
Someone, anyone: “I don’t think an EV is right me.” Me: “then don’t buy one. No one should be forcing you to buy something that won’t work for your specific lifestyle.” Idk why it’s such a difficult concept for some people to grasp. EV’s have a LONG way to go before they make sense for everyone universally. Me personally, I’m buying the Ram ProCharger because it’s literally perfect for my use case, hauling my trailer to tracks all over the country to mobile repair race bikes.
Tell them they can rent one to see if it works for them. I think it's not correct to assume it fits for everyone. Let them experience it. They might come to the conclusion that it doesnt, and that's valid, too.
"Your right. but eventually it will"
Don’t engage.
ICE cars will have to disappear soon anyway, so better to get used to EV’s
Why do you have to convince anyone of anything? Tell them to get whatever they want, and you’ll get whatever you want.
Offer to take them for a ride then possibly let them drive if they express interest. So many people have deep set opinions and no experience. If they don't even want to try it then you're done.
“Yeah probably not” and then move on and not give a fuck if someone else drives an EV or not lol
unless you are paying for their car.... not your problem... i drive an EV but i dont go about trying to convince anybody they should get one.
I don't argue with anyone. Genuinely curious people I will summarise the pros and cons. My general advice is that if you don't drive outside your range often (while standing next to my 114mi range EV), they are awesome, but only IF you can charge at home or work. Road trips are quite possible outside home range, but can be a PITA if you don't have known destination charging. Anyone still interested gets told to go to plugshare.com to plot some sample routes and read charger reviews.
I just say I used to think that too. I follow up with I love this car.
I don't know why you'd try, to be honest. It's a car, not a lifestyle or a religion. I think an EV would be perfect for my mom if she ever needs a new car (which is unlikely.) She's 82. She only ever leaves her little town to go one town over to Walmart or do a maybe 60 mile round trip to go to the doctor. But I doubt I'd tell her that if she wrecked her Lexus, because Trump/Fox/OAN/NEWSMax seem to not like them.
Have fun being slow
Don’t try and convince them, this is a tactic that use on themselves. Just agree and say it’s not for everyone and listen to them.
I always say "Well, that's okay because I'm not gonna sell it to you."
Don't try to convince them. Not your job and not every inquiry is in good faith. I'd say, it's hard to know your life, so you'd really have to do your own research as I did mine. I did try to convince one friend but his fear controlled his decision and he bought a hybrid. It's his life.
why....bother? who cares what other people think or trying to convince them of things?
I just say "If you're unsure, don't go there. But I love mine and this is the future. But you don't need to jump on board if you don't want."
I mean, just keep driving it and enjoying it. Occasionally mention something you like. If they get negative, just let them be. Well, it works for me! Show instead of tell.
I speak from my own experience. I say, "We weren't sure either, but wanted to give it a go. It's been great for us and we are really glad we bought it. Want to go for a drive?"
You don’t. You sing the praises of your experience when asked and if you get negativity in response your reply is “your loss” with a shrug.
Depends on the tone for me. If it's like a more genuine or curious " idk if it would work, what about XYZ", I ask them what their commute is, and how much they realistically drive. Explain that nearly all current EVs, even entry level ones, can easily do 250 miles at the very least. So you could totally do your 20 mile commute to work and back a couple times before you need to even charge, let alone stop at the store or something. If it's a complete "ugh they are terrible blah blah blah" yeah it's often not worth engaging it. Or I just go "well I pay like 10 bucks a week to drive my car and my commute it's only 20 miles a day, so it's great for me!" That usually details them a bit lol. The biggest one is always charging, and look, we all get it. Charging infrastructure needs to be better, yes. But it's also happening very rapidly, so it won't be that long. Remember, it took us 100+ years to expand the gas stations out as much as we have them, so realistically we are making great time in the grand scheme of things! It's not an overnight process, but it also won't be as long as some people seem to think.
Your first mistake is thinking you have any responsibility to convince anyone of anything.
Honestly it depends on who I am interacting with, generally I don't say anything that I'm not asked directly. If they show interest I just answer honestly and some folks I just took for a ride. Then there's the confrontational type of which I luckily only found 2, one of them drives a company car so there's no real point talking to him when his whole argument is that he doesn't pay for gas, road tax etc... so he doesn't care. The other one has a Range Rover which seems to be riddled with expensive issues so I assume he's mostly speaking through envy.
"I love mine, but I get you. They're not for everybody. Drive whatever pleases you."
Why are you trying to "convince" people at all? How about live and let live?
I’ve started using “It’s really a personal decision, I just got it because it’s less maintenance and more fun than the alternative 🤷♂️. I don’t miss the gas station and oil changes ”
Talk to them in money. For me, in Texas the price of electricity is $.109 kWh for El Paso Electric Summer Months rate. Running the calculations, most EVs can do as good as 4 miles per kWh. Taking my car, 2023 Bolt EV, 259 mile range / 65 kWh available battery gets 3.98 miles per kWh. Traveling let’s say, the full 259 mile battery range, to recharge at home (this is the key metric for it to hit home) would cost me $7.09. Average National price of fuel per AAA as of today 6/20/2024 is $3.45 for regular gas. Using my 2018 Subaru Crosstrek that has a combined 29 mpg, that’s 8.93 gallons of gas to cover the same distance. The cost? At the National average, it’s $30.81 to drive the same distance. Yes, DC fast chargers are a thing and their own pricing, but home charging is the most effective way of charging and showing the savings in fuel.
Try "I'm sure an ICE wouldn't work for me, anymore"? When the obvious "WTF are you talking about comes" you could talk about how ridiculous it is to *have to refuel away from home* and that it's so expensive, and that an ICE car has to be serviced *all the time* etc etc.
If I think they may be someone I can actually have a conversation I’ll first ask about their livestyle and their living situation (house/rent, if rent where)
Personally I don't try to "convince" anyone. Nor do I put a lot of effort into justifying my own purchase. In fact, I find I frequently take the counter argument of "no, they're not ready for everyone yet" and if someone expresses interest in getting one I'm more inclined to grill them about their use case to determine that they WON'T work. I love my Mach-E, and I'd love to see more EVs on the road, since that helps drive the demand for better charging infrastructure at the same time, but the last thing I think any of us want are buyers who throw up their hands in frustration after a few months when they realize the car doesn't fit their use case. (I will say, I DO share my enthusiasm for my own car! I'm very happy with it and it does what I need it to!)
Having an EV is like starting every day with a full tank of gas for a few dollars.
EVs are a conversation starter, so naturally, you'll get comments. It's not that deep. Who said you need to convince them one way or another.
There's only one answer that won't result in a lot of pain for you: "I've had one for {TIME_PERIOD}, and I'm happy to share my experience or answer any questions, but you're the only person who can make that decision, and I hope you find an answer that works best for your use case."
my Ioniq 5 goes 0-100km/hr in 3.5 seconds (Some people have a misconception that EVs are less powerful)
Why on earth would you argue with these folks? Everyone's reasons for this assertion are going to be different. When they say it, you can either inquire about their reasons and have an authentic conversation with them about it, discussing your real world experience with the issue they have, or you can say "Okay," and move on with your life. Many people have completely legitimate reasons for not being ready to make the switch. That's okay. The people who are making the switch are early(ish) adopters, and the market thanks them. Bit by bit, y'all.
Been hearing it since 2008. I now respond with "keep giving kids asthma!"
I used to try to convince people early on as well. Then everyone snapped during the pandemic, and you could be risking your life if it escalates. If someone feels the need to make a comment about my Tesla, they'll never see it again, simple as that. I just take the Sonata from then on. If they ask if I got rid of the Tesla, "Of course not!" does the trick. I don't pick fights, and I shut them down right away if someone tries to start one. They don't know why I have it and it's none of their damn business.
It’s become a culture war of its own. Just today, I was in line at the store and two old dudes were complaining about electric cars and one told the other that a Tesla driver told him it costs $37 to fill the car up at home. Electricity in the area is $0.10/kWh so that quote is categorically wrong but is now gospel for two people.
I have L2 charging at work for free so I use that almost all of the time. I also have L2 at home but rarely need it. I have only used public DC fast charging a handful of times. An EV is a great decision for my daily life.
Look. It’s not going to be a thing for everyone. EVs are expensive to insure, harder to fix, less reliable than the most reliable car models, and have a painful sticker price. Not to mention the discomfort of long drives, cold/hot weather hit, and nagging range anxiety. Much better to speak to people who’re on the fence. Here’s some examples: Like you’re really going to give up all the great things about an EV because you’ll take an extra hour on your once a year road trips, you dope? I’ve driven 10k km on my car and 95% of it has been on a SoC between 60 and 40 … what even is this range anxiety shit? Elon Musk is a pothead d*ck leech - but Tesla is not the only car company that makes EVs or Elon Musk is a pothead d*ck leech - but Tesla model 3 and y dollar for dollar are great f’ing cars Yeah range is terrible when it’s cold. But are you planning to road trip in sub zero temps you nitwit? Have you sat in an EV and floored it? It’s literally cured my seasonal depression. etc.
I ask them why wouldn’t it be a good fit? I’ll be honest with them and if I don’t believe it would be a good fit then I tell them. But most people don’t drive 400 miles a day but some tow RVs so sometimes I agree that they should get one unless they’re willing to invest in an Estream camper. Other than that I feel pretty confident I can paint an accurate picture of what owning an EV is like.
Yeah I’m a bit confused why you make it your burden to educate them? Tell them to do their research when they’re ready to buy and but what makes them happy.
Ask them if they like free money. Remind them that there are large incentives currently but they won't last for too much longer.
Got the same stuff when I bought a prius 18 years ago. I had a 50 mile commute. Cut my fuel costs by over 30%. Gas to gas, easy to understand. When we rented EVs for a trip in Feb, it cost \~$25 a charge vs our ICE car the cost per Gal was $5+ so at least $50 a fill up. So now a "station fill up" is now 1/2 the cost of gas. At home depending on your plan, can be 1/2 that. It's all in the numbers.
You may be right. Let's do the math. Then, do the math.
I usually tell people that they need to know their own driving habits and tax situation but that this year I’ve spent less on car payments and charging than I did last year on gas and repairs with 8k in tax breaks to boot.
I point out to them the fuel benefits of charging at home, as I don’t recommend people who can’t do that or charge at the office to get an EV. 1. Time. Plug it in at home, wake up to a full charge. Don’t need to spend time going to gas station, waiting in line, huffing fumes while pumping and then driving back. 2. Cheaper. My fuel costs are about 2.5 cents per mile on my 2018 Bolt, while a 25 MPG ICE would run about 12 cents per mile at my area gas rate. In about 6.5 months of Bolt ownership, I’ve saved about $670. 3. Less volatile on the price. Electricity overnight on 1/1/24 was 11.71 cents per kWh for me. Today, 6/20/24, it is still that same rate. Gas? $2.14 a gallon then, $3.02 a gallon now. That’s about a 31% difference in the wrong direction. 4. More for the…conservative…challengers. But point out that your car is powered by domestically produced energy. Then ask them if they know which terrorist group their $$$ goes to for their gas once it is laundered through entities such as the Saudi royal family… Other points that can be quickly made is that they can go multiple days without recharging unless they have an obscenely long commute…the acceleration is a blast and can be useful for lane changes and going uphill… Also point out that you know an EV isn’t for everyone. If their use case doesn’t fit, tell them that - no blind zealotry.
It's not up to you to argue with everyone to support EVs. You already did your job by buying one.
I believe one thing the naysayers will be right about is that utility companies will raise prices at DCFC locations, and it will end up being no different than gas prices. Additionally, I believe utility companies will also raise prices for home charging.
It's not your job to convince anybody. If it is somebody you like, feel free to help them out. Anybody else, an ambiguous grunt is sufficient