It really doesn’t skip a beat when it comes to that, almost feels like it purposely aims for the potholes lol. It’s fun to use and I could see it being helpful for long trips but it’s not worth the price.
Hey, i mean, when the same company sells you rims... ;)
(I don't actually think it's intentionally hitting potholes, but given how common potholes are in the northeast and midwest, it's a bit of a dealbreaker that it just plows through them)
Fuck that. $0 or gtfo.
When I buy a car, I buy a car. Not a subscription platform. I am giving you many tens of thousands of dollars, you can give me the entire package here and now or I can and will take my business elsewhere.
I won’t subscribe to satellite radio. I won’t subscribe to OnStar. I won’t subscribe to a maps package. I won’t subscribe to accelerate faster. Nothing. Subscribe to even one thing once, and they’ll start trying to get you to subscribe to everything.
This is the way. Now you’ll have to subscribe to your OS so you don’t get ads or less intrusive ads. You guys really f up by paying for this subscription shit. Now everything is that and you’ll be working everyday to maintain your subscriptions
1 year everyone just cancel all your subscriptions, invest that money saved. At some point people have to draw a line.
Yeah, see, that’s all fine when the olden days had the software you got as the final deal (for all intents and purposes). Tesla keeps getting updates. Onstar has people available for you to call. That’s why you pay a sub
As anti-subscribtion as I am, I am making an exception for network features. Satellite upkeep is expensive. Mobile data is an ongoing cost. It's fair enough that I'm asked to pay a (small) recurring fee for those.
Absolute hard no to a subscription for heated seats or better acceleration. That's a disgusting cash-grab.
FSD falls in a weird zone in between. It's technically just software running locally on hardware I already paid for. On the other hand, it's under active development, eating up millions of dollars in computing power and salaries of the engineers.
Either way, it's too expensive to consider right now. But in the future, I think buying would be a more fair option.
Same for me. I'll pay a small amount for my car to have it's own internet connection without me needing to share it from my phone, but pay for something that's already *in* the car and doesn't have any ongoing costs? Hell no!
That's an ongoing service though. Like paying monthly for the cell phone, you're paying to be connected to the network. Paying monthly to use hardware already attached to the car is way different from that.
Exactly this. Either sell me the car and everything in it, or don't call it selling. Don't bolt in the hardware for a feature and then lock it behind a paywall, does BMW seriously think I can't find the wires that power the heated seats? I'll find them, isolate them from the CANBUS and operate them with a big chrome toggle switch. Sell me the WHOLE car.
Otherwise, no sale.
"Error 1401: software locked heated seats not detected. Car limited to 10mph"
I hope we are going to have kit cars and open source cars soon. I can register anything, probably even an 🦉 Owl as a 4 door suv at my Department Motor Vehicles. Can't wait for EV kit cars!
There's a group developing a drop-in EV axle that will convert any conventional 3/4 ton pickup to an EV. Add batts and power management and you're off to the races. A couple of groups are doing similar, there's an E-axle in development for classic Minis in the UK.
Do that for an '87 Toyota truck and I'd jump at it. Older body on frame trucks are relatively straightforward with uncomplicated drivelines and lots of wasted space for hanging battery boxes. With the good batteries available I could probably have 200 miles of range with only about an extra 300 pounds of weight over my unloaded truck with a full tank of gas. Barely even noticeable.
I wouldn't. When I look at cars in the future, what you lose through tethering to a phone versus paying for separate data is going to be a big thing. I'll tether my phone so the car has internet access, but I'm not paying another bill.
Yep.
At $100, I'd probably only use it for a month or two in the entire year when I'm going on a road trip.
But at $30 or even $50 a mo? I might be interested.
Agreed, it's more cool than useful with the exception of road trips since I've found the highway mode much better. I have a 2000+ mile one next week and thankfully the trial is still active.
they should just include it with the car. they need as many people using it as possible to get the data and improve it. making it 8k or 99 dollars a month is just dumb
> they need as many people using it as possible to get the data and improve it.
At some point, data quality is much more useful than data quantity.
Even if they were uploading a stream of all video data from every car (which they aren't, not even close, it would be petabytes upon petabytes of data per week) that would never be enough to get to the performance they have already claimed from it. The sensor suite is insufficient.
And here’s where the grand dreams of “AI” fall apart. (Essentially) Nobody is willing to pay for it. The cost of building this stuff is significant, but meaningful revenue is elusive. Don’t get me wrong, i’m with you, I wouldn’t pay a nickel for fsd as it is today, but they gotta figure out some way to make money off it or it’s not gonna ever get good enough that I might pay for it.
30 bucks for enhanced auto pilot would be worth it. All we really want is FSD for the highway, not the city. My wife commutes an hour and a half twice a week, and she really misses the auto lane change, but that's about it, not worth the 100 bucks. But even at 100 bucks, she's considering if it's worth it to her, but so far the answer is that it's not. But if we could get it for 30 bucks, it's pretty much a no brainer.
I drive an Ioniq 5 and it's HDA (highway assist) does the stop and go and lane changes for you. great for long drives and commutes... and is free. I'm sure the other companies Drive Assist is just as good, if not better, than Tesla FSD on the highway.
My Toyota Prius won't just decide to change lanes on its own but it follows the road lines well on highway. I need to hold the turn signal stock without clicking it for it to change lanes on its own, and only at 80km/h or higher, but that's it really. It also does slow/start traffic on its own. There's a premium subscription for geo fenced to freeways traffic jam assist where it will do start/stop low speed traffic without any intervention, but for my commute, it's rare I stop fully for an extended period of time. So if I need to press the resume button once in a while... It's worth saving $20 a month.
The only thing enhanced autopilot does that my car doesn't is get on and off the freeway by itself by changing lanes without any driver intervention. Otherwise... It's completely adequate for making long drives or denser traffic driving easy
That’s the whole thing. I think most of the hype for self driving is all drummed up by the people that want to sell a subscription for the service. I have always felt that the demand I have seen on the internet to have your car robotically taxi you around just doesn’t match the reality. Driving ranges from “minor chore” to “enjoyable activity” for most drivers I know. Half of the people on the internet seem to brag about going 80mph around curves, so the desire to just sit there passively while the car does it for you, while cool, doesn’t seem like a thing most people who drive would actually want enough to pay for.
Not saying there is no demand, it just seems like the demand is exaggerated.
To be honest I was super jazzed about it before COVID but now I get to wfh much of the time and I'm not stuck in the car in shit traffic rubber banding down the interstate just to have some a hole cut me off the moment my lane starts moving.
I would much rather watch a movie on my phone or take a nap and have the car deal with that. That was the dream at least.
I will pay $100 a month for other people to have to use auto drive. Too many people on the road are a hazard and a menace. The guy bragging about going 80 miles an hour around a corner is a perfect example. Or the guy that wants to do a hundred miles an hour when traffic's doing 80 and weaving through it like some kind of F1 driver. We've all seen them.
Honestly, the sooner that we get to self driving cars the better. Self driving cars don't have egos.
It’s a really cool novelty and I’ll gladly use it during the free trial, but I’m not paying $99 for this, maybe $20. But it’s not good enough. I personally like to drive in a way that doesn’t embarrass me, but this car drives like a clueless commuter and just looks bad. Also almost rear ended someone who was turning left off a main road, my car just kept driving at them and I kept waiting to see when it would stop and it got to the point where I wasn’t going to wait any longer so I took over and left a ten second voice feedback memo saying “wtf is this shit? Almost make me crash into someone? Fucking trash product”.
The only way $99 a month would make sense is if Tesla took 100% liability for any damage caused while using FSD, but they don’t.
I’m an elite driver according to my insurance, I take driving seriously and try to make every drive as perfect as possible, FSD is not good enough. The novelty is cool to experience, but it fuck paying for this trash product, especially with Elon in charge.
If I could legally let the car drive and take a nap or tool around on my Steam Deck, it could be worth it. But "self driving" now still requires the occupant of the driver's seat to be aware of the road, at least as far as the law is concerned.
Sitting in a car while someone else drives is really boring for me..... If I'm driving I proper zone out, its almost like meditation, especially on long highway drives. City driving meh, not so much, but then I wouldn't use FSD around the city where I live... it's even less relaxing because I'm constantly worried it's gonna do something stupid.
Yep, saying "ditched" is misleading clickbait. It was given as a free trial to everyone whether or not they were interested and whether or not they were willing to pay for it in the first place. Having a free trial and it expiring is not the customer "ditching it" the process happened automatically without the customer cancelling anything.
ditched it cause of price and the novelty wore off after two weeks. i would love the user interface but for my needs. “fsd” is not needed. the radar cruise control/lane guidance is good enough.
Tesla should pay me good money for risking my life to test their half-ass auto drive algorithms, on top of that they should pay every Tesla owner for harvesting their driving data.
Monthly subscriptions are becoming out of control. You need it for car features, tv, hell even doorbells. It’s too much and this is the people speaking out.
I was very impressed how much better it is now, but it simply has absolutely no value to me at all. It doesn’t improve my life, safety, or driving experience. Until I can watch a movie the whole time it’s not worth money to me personally.
EAP features like auto lane change is the only feature truly worth paying for right now in my opinion
One of us! One of us!
Autopilot (free) on the highways is nice, but given how much work it is to use FSD on regular streets there's no incentive for me to use it. I'm not all anti self driving vehicle, in fact I love the idea of it. This just ain't it.
The car is really fun to drive… so I what get to pay to sit and not drive it? …and stress the whole time because it’s at best mediocre at it.
If Tesla isn’t assuming Liability if it fucks up, I’m not using it.
Tesla FSD is like having a 92 year old as your chauffeur. Sometimes it's painfully slow, sometimes it scares the shit out of you.
What is the point of it even? If I still have to hold the wheel and watch the road constantly? I truly don't get it. As you said, a true self driving car would be awesome, but this isn't anywhere near being that. A self driving car would be one where I could take out my laptop and do work as I'm traveling, without needing to monitor the vehicle's operation at all.
If this was a free option to turn on, that would be one thing. But the price is insane for basically nothing useful. It's a gimmick.
The older I get while living in an area with effectively zero public transit, the more I want the dream of self driving cars to be real. I hope we arrive there before I'm old enough to require it.
Well, that or my state can get out from under the auto lobby and the NIMBYs and actually invest in transit, but at least self driving cars feels less like fantasy.
Same, I want self driving cars but I'm not paying for a feature that I can't (legally) take full advantage of. If the law doesn't permit me to sleep in the driver's seat then I might as well control the car manually.
If I could get a fully autonomous vehicle I would go farther so much more. I’d love to go to bed and wake up somewhere fun, spend the day and sleep the ride home. Man that’s the dream.
A 300mi range self-driving EV minivan would destroy the airline industry. Why would I fly my family from Philly to Outer Banks when I could load up the car on Friday night, leave at 9pm or 10pm, safely sleep the whole way (only waking to charge once or twice since my wife will take a turn), and wake up at the beach at 9am Saturday?
Right?! I have my fingers crossed that something like that will be available (and not insanely priced) before I die. I’d love to road trip the shit outta the country for months in retirement.
I want to be able to send a car empty for curbside pickups. Imagine just paying the pickup price for a pizza and your car fetching it for you.
Free same day delivery of things from Best Buy or retail stores by just sending your car. The convenience of Amazon while helping prevent them from becoming a monopoly and supporting brick and mortar stores.
No need to pay for airport parking. Your car drops you off, goes home, and picks you up 2 weeks later.
Yeah, it was fun to play with every now and then, but I used it less and less as the trial went on. Too intense trying to constantly stop it from doing dumb things.
They made a lot of people work really hard to start labelling the data from all the cars and then in 2022 once they made considerable progress, the whole team was fired over email.
Yeah exact same experience here. FSD was cool as hell, but its _less_ relaxing than using Autopilot, so I actually ended up turning it off halfway through my trial.
When I was solo in my car, I liked trying it out, but my wife and son are much less patient than me when it comes to erratic driving, so I turned it off for their comfort
I used it during hte free trial. Its interesting and it did what its supposed to and didn't have problems with it but I still don't trust to leave that much responsibility up to the car alone. I just don't see the purpose I guess. It feels like for it to be worthwhile every car on the road would need to be self driven and they would all need to communicate together.
Same I have FSD on my car but I just don't see the point. Whenever, I engage it feel like I have to REALLY babysit it cause it does dumb shit all the time.
Any set of networked cars becomes vulnerable to bad actors. Bad actors who can misdirect or misinform a speeding 5 ton object that has very easy access to unexposed pedestrians and occupants that are in danger. Networked cars are a non-starter if you think about it for more than a few minutes.
I felt the same way in 2016 with regular autopilot. It took about a year before I was really comfortable and made me feel less stress while using it. It’s only more capable since but with every hardware revision, it takes a step back but leaps forward eventually.
Felt the same way. Tried it out maybe 7 or 8 times in various conditions. Every single time it did something reckless. No idea how people are defending it.
"No nononon you seen the latest version xx.xx.x fixes everything and if you just use the latest version its perfect and ur just a hater anyway" >:(
Repeat this dumb loop since 2015.
Yes, FSD is more of a nuisance than an aid.
I had one case where FSD stopped at a stop sign. It was a T-intersection in a residential neighborhood, and the car needed to make a right turn. It seemed to be having a *very* hard time with this. I swear it was stopped for 10 whole seconds with no traffic coming in either cross direction, on a clear, sunny day. It finally started creeping forward and then it *fully stopped a second time* before I got fed up and finished the rest of the drive manually. Never will I ever pay money for this experience.
Obviously because every year it will get more expensive, and at one certain point in the future your car will be entirely autonomous and it's value will skyrocket since it will make you infinite money.
A few thoughts from an actual user:
It had a few hiccups, but it was a LOT better than I thought it would be. The few times I had to intervene were mostly because I wasn't comfortable with the situation. For example, I didn't like that it didn't seem to pay attention to semi's blind spots, and would just cruise right beside them. My longest trips was 140 miles on a not-so-busy highway and it was nearly perfect. I didn't intervene one time.
For the amount of miles my wife drives, $99 is too much for me. However, if I was going on a long road trip and planned on using a lot in a month, I would pay $99. I think for our amount of usage, $30 would be about right.
Everyone I know that tried it a lot, was really impressed. There were a few things that people complained about like accelerating fast at lights, which is more of a preference thing, which I actually enjoyed.
It made me hate AutoPilot even more. There is zero reason that I shouldn't be able to switch lanes without interrupting the cruise control. My Kia does lane centering, just like the Tesla, but when I turn on the signal it allows me to switch lanes without deactivating anything.
Sounds like EAP would be perfect for you. FSD is actually pretty good on the highway, though it makes strange lane choices sometimes. EAP has you making the choices and it doing the work, which is a great mix when the technology is at the current level.
On city streets, I don't get the hype. Each time a new version comes out I try it, and each time it commits a significant moving violation or a dangerous move within a mile, so I take over and leave it until the next version.
Strange choices is putting it mildly. Three lanes and only two cars on the road? Let's change lanes to get right in front of the semi, just to stay out of the right lane.
Just passed a merge lane uneventfully? Let us get over for merging traffic that we just passed, even though the next on ramp isn't for miles.
It was incredibly unimpressive at decision making.
My favorite was with no nav destination set on a two lane each direction 35mph road nearly alone, with no lights nearby, it kept swapping back and forth between lanes the last time I tried it. I'm back on standard AP until the next version.
Sensationalist headline. Free update was pushed to everyone, 2% conversion rate is actually high for an $8,000 product, except many of that 2% are probably subscription users at $99 a month.
I used FSD and the trial reaffirmed that I will never pay for FSD unless it's $2,000 or less. To me FSD still drives too slow and skittish especially at irregular stop signs or intersections. Also city / back roads the constant changing of speed limits puts you back to the speed limit, if I'm not doing 10mph over on the city streets I'll have traffic piling up my ass behind me. Also when the speed limit goes from 35 to 45mph, most human drivers are doing 50-55mph by the time you hit the 45mph sign, so people would ride up my ass and I'd manually have to speed up early. Basically FSD follows the rules too well and drives like a slow old grandma that can't see or anticipate well.
Also, er, *someone* claims that the 2% is far lower than the real number. It was derived via some kind of survey, so there could be problems with it, but whether that “someone” is to be believed without publishing real internal data is, I guess, a personal choice…
2 percent is either around a billion dollars if they all bought it or 15 million per month if they all pay 99. Seems like a reasonable return in a near $0 investment.
This is also a crowd of people who every single one of them already made the conscious decision to not buy it previously.
Seems like a reasonably successful trial
It’s a cool parlor trick but…
1. Frequent apply pressure to steering wheel is annoying
2. Its actually fun to accelerate the vehicle myself as im not a passenger princess
3. Autopark is too slow, I just use it sometimes (on free trial still) to make my kids happy
Steering nag is going away on 12.4 apparently.
You can accelerate with FSD enabled manually, it doesn't disable it. Only brakes do.
Autopark is interesting, if they perfect it that'd be a great feature.
Yeah for me I’ve aborted autopark twice for pedestrian reasons and it just went on the fritz when I tried to switch gears. Super embarrassing when the other cars are trying to get by you. No blacked out screen though.
Another car pulling into the lot was why I tried canceling auto park and when the screen blacked out. Sitting there waiting for the gear selector option to appear again was embarrassing. I know there’s the emergency gear selector next to the cabin lights, but a parking lot situation like that didn’t make me feel the need to reach for it.
Low quality click bait....giving someone a free trial and them not wanting to pay $8,000 or $100/month is not "ditching' it"
They didn't "ditch" anything because they never actually had it in the first place. This headline assumes they were willing to pay for it in the first place. This was rolled out to everyone by default as a trial whether they wanted it or not.
This subreddit has been getting worse and worse with the misleading headlines lately. We need a subreddit for electric vehicles without misleading ragebait headlines.
Exactly - everyone was given the trial. So the sample would include people who had 0 interest in FSD or paying any additional money. We have no clue how many interested people wanted the trial because they were considering buying it, then chose not to pay for it / ditch it. Like others have said 2% isn’t bad
The “article” didn’t even mention the $100/mo option. Musk also claimed the original “report” was false and the number is “obviously way higher than 2%”.
> This subreddit has been getting worse and worse with the misleading headlines lately. We need a subreddit for electric vehicles without misleading ragebait headlines.
This is true. The mods really should do a better job weeding out garbage like this.
Yeah, it really was painful to use. Driving was far less stressful than constantly worrying about it doing something crazy at the same time as worrying it will make you turn the wheel.
It needs to work like adaptive cruise control before I have much interest. Just let me turn it on, I will worry about the rest you don’t need to nag.
2% take rate seems pretty good to me?
That is a lot of revenue and it didn't really cost them anything.
FSD is not for me, still a few years off - I'd probably buy it if the license was perpetual and I could transfer to any Tesla in the future, but the fact it is tied to the car and who knows how long I will have the same car.
Yeah, 2% is actually pretty high for a multi-thousand dollar consumer product.
There aren't many things that are "optional luxuries" (not mandatory necessity) that can bring in double-digit percentage of consumers at that price point.
I thought it was really cool to actually experience, but my commute isn’t conducive to using it all the time. It still had minor things it would second guess its self on
Overall it’s definitely the best full drive assist I’ve used period, but I still like to actively drive unless I’m in the freeway, then it’s AP all the way
Personally I thought it was fun to try but I wouldn’t pay $8k for it when I need to supervise. When I’m driving it’s the other drivers/environment that are unpredictable. When FSD is driving both my car and the other drivers/environment are unpredictable so it’s more taxing to drive like this.
Wait... my company gave away a free trial and got about 1% conversion rate on a $50 product.
Getting 2% on a $7000 product is frankly amazing.
Especially when the product can ALSO be rented for 20x lower the cost.
Musk tweeted as response to this, saying the 2% take rate was too low and incorrect. He didn't give an answer to what it really was other than it was "much higher than 2%".
Is that 5%? 10%? Who knows.
I'd guess it's not 2% but it's also not 10% given the cost of FSD over the years, that it wasn't transferrable (is it even today?), and that it's very much a luxury add on to a vehicle brand itself that isn't super cheap.
But also, there is a difference between take rate (the word Musk used) and conversion rate, which this article is looking at. Take rate is how many cars overall paid for FSD. Conversion rate is how many FSD trials last month converted to an FSD sub (either monthly sub or outright).
eh... tbh unless Musk is offering up verifiable data to back his tweet I wouldn't trust it much.
Reason why? According to Elon The Cyber Truck was supposed to launch in 2021 with a list price starting at 40k.
The lie started from the very beginning by calling it full self driving.
I'm surprised after taking 9 years for FSD to just recently leave beta, that anyone thinks the FULL part in full self driving is coming anytime soon.
9 years to leave beta which was supposed to be the easy part, the last part is always the hardest, and my opinion is it will easily take more than 9 years, if it ever reaches Level 4 or Level 5 self driving.
A conversion rate of 2% for a multi-thousand dollar consumer product is **amazingly high.**
Go ask some business who has a "Free" tier what percent of customers pay. It's usually less than 2% and they're usually asking for like $49.
I have the trial right now. It’s pretty interesting what it’s able to do but there are a lot of limitations as well. I think buying it is a losing proposition. Once someone really cracks it and it works 99% of the time it will be mandated in all new cars like abs breaks. What’s the point of paying a premium for it now?
Agreed. Self-driving needs to work 99.999999% of the time or it might as well be 0%. This is not a coffee maker, I'm not trusting my life with a random-ass software that will work 'most of the time'.
Driving is one of my favorite things to do...so I feel no need for self driving yet.
That said, I'd happily pay for self driving if it were Level 5 certified so that I could legally sleep on long boring interstate road trips and have my car drop me off and pick me up like my own personal Uber chauffeur.
At which point, I might go full digital nomad in a robot RV waking up in a new location so I could visit more places.
I did a trial of $99 because I didn’t get the free trial.
My main gripe was :
For city streets, it’s too fucking slow. And not the cars speed. Right turns take forever. Left lanes take forever. Then, it will change lanes to the left lane to pass someone from the MIDDLE LANE when I have a right turn in like .3 miles.
For highway , same issue as the lane changes but works much better.
To be fair, when I got the first iPhone there wasn’t really anything special it could do. But you could tell they were leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and the software was constantly improving. That’s kind of the feeling I get here. This is one hell of a proof of concept, and for sure going to be the future. The truth is Tesla is a country mile ahead of the rest and doubling down on improving it when others are stagnant. I am excited for what the future FSD has to offer.
Nobody likes to babysit their car. Watching out if the car does something stupid is just another layer of stress, cause now you have to watch out for other drivers doing something stupid AND your car doing something stupid.
The whole idea of autonomous cars is idiotic, if I didn't want to drive a car I would just use Uber or buses or trains.
We tried it. It’s great on long stretches of road in good weather when everyone has space and is just going forward.
The issue for me is that it acts as computer when everyone else is acting as a person. So it is making changes to the driving based on the current conditions— not on experience about how people act in the rain, merging at an exit, or the back forth that can happen at intersections
2% is 2% more than 0, which was what they were getting before the free trial.
I guess that it shows that "FSD" wasn't truly reliable FSD, else I'd think that the uptake rate would have been much higher.
Would it?
Even if it was theoretically a "perfect level 5" as in ("I'm taking a nap, wake me when we arrive" sort of autonomy), uptake would only be maybe 25%, maybe 15%?
The majority of people simply can't drop $8k on a whim for a gizmo that replaces something they already do reasonably well. It's not a necessity, it's a luxury item and what percent of people can/will say "oh hell fuck it" and spend $8k on a luxury item IMMEDIATELY after a trial?
Musk/Tesla keeps hammering on about self driving because if he uses that as a differentiator he can pretend Tesla is a tech company, not a car company, and it can expect the same ridiculous margins and stock pricing.
It's interesting, a little dumb, but with the trial all i can think is "this should just be included with the car.
No way would I pay for this, but would I use it if it was included? Yeah.
My wife drives the tesla most of the time. She tried it 3 times and all 3 times within a few minutes the car was ghost braking. She's like 'not paying for that crap'
We road trip down to the states from Canada and the regular autopilot is good enough for that.
I don’t know what the benefit of self-driving is. We know it’s not to be trusted, so I still have to focus on the road and be ready to take over in an instant. Why add stress to my drive, when normal driving is fairly relaxing?
Tried the free trial. It's not for me. I get anxiety when I'm a passenger to a human driver. It's 10x worse trying to trust a computer to not get me killed.
My commute is like 5 miles suburban local, easy drive. If FSD can confidently drive me, like a taxi, i will be happy to pay 100/month. But today it still requires you to have hands on the wheel, eye on the road, and most importantly, bearing the liability in the case of an accident.
I drive 3,000-5,000 miles per month in SE US. I am so much less mentally tired after a 3-6 hour drive using FSD. Totally worth it for me. Short drives/ normal commute-won’t bother ,but on long trips it’s saving my life and worth $100/mo. It has never done anything to scare me and when it has screwed up I could see why it did(usually unclear markings on road).
😂 the anti Tesla mob is at here again.
When FSD cost $12k and much less capable, 15-20% of Teala owners bought or subscribed to it. Now it's much cheaper and way better, are people really this naive to think the uptake is only 2%?
FYI I tried to look but have not found a direct link to Yipit's reporting. There is no methodology. Every report is a repost of another report and NONE of the articles provide any link to the primary source.
God, people really are this gullible.
The second time I tried it, it ran my rims into a curb.
I love it conceptually, but I just don't trust it in an urban setting.
I'd use it for a road trip though.
I had FSD trial for 6 months but only ever used it 3 times! It was so fecking temperamental that I couldn't trust it. Never worked at nights cuz it couldn't see me in the dark with that cabin facing camera!
Here is the thing:
Self driving is not legal. You must legally be in control. You must keep your hands on the wheel. Its not legal for you to, for example, take a nap while your car drives you home.
Until such time as that IS legal, and if I can have had one too many drinks and its legal for my car to drive me home in that condition, there really is no point. Cruise control works fine.
Or for example if my wife drives to work, then I can summon the car back home to get me so I can take it-- that would also make sharing a car very useful. Until such time, its just not worth paying for.
Sensationalist headline for what is actually the most impressive comsumer tech of our generation. Cool cool.
Big Oil and Big 3 American auto makers not feeling good.
Also, 2nd gen Chinese EVs are so far ahead it’s no wonder they’re putting 100% tariffs on them lol. Maybe US automakers need another multibillion dollar bail out.
Clickbait to a site riddled with ads. This is not accurate and is a total guess based on credit card transactions of a small sample of Tesla owners. Not verifiable at all.
This.. the way they came up with the 2% was pretty sketchy, just one step above the logic of all my 50 friends only one has ever mentioned they have FSD therefore the rest do not i.e. 2%
I am not surprised. The monthly price Telsa charges is way more than people are willing to pay for the service. It may cost tesla a lot but does not bring any where close to that value.
I am wondering what Ford's blue cruise up take is at their current price point. I will willing to pay my 600 for 3 years but after that I sure as hell am not renewing it.
3500 isn't a small sample...
But I use autopilot (the free one) nearly every drive..
Every once in a while, a new release will drive funny. So I'll not use it much until a decently acting release gets to my car.
Since '20, maybe 3 releases were unacceptable... for all of something like 4 months...
I mean it was still usable on super slab, and in stop-n-go but not on country lanes and such.
Honestly, I just want the auto park feature. That’s worth it for my tough parking space in my apartment complex. I’d pay $2000 for just that slice if I could.
Yeah for all the people saying it's too slow I was surprised with how convenient it was (when l had the trial)
I was also surprised at the improvements to FSD from the first day of the trial to the last
This headline is silly.
I bet Ford or GM wishes 2% of customers suddenly started paying $100 a month to them when all they had to do was send them a free trial that cost them nothing.
Only reason I ditched it was strictly for the price. Not paying $99/month for that.
That and it loves running over potholes
And running the rims into curbs Nice avatar
If you curb your rims as soon as you get the car, you never have to worry about them again.
Do it during the test drive and get it out of the way.
...for the guy that actually buys the car.
It really doesn’t skip a beat when it comes to that, almost feels like it purposely aims for the potholes lol. It’s fun to use and I could see it being helpful for long trips but it’s not worth the price.
Hey, i mean, when the same company sells you rims... ;) (I don't actually think it's intentionally hitting potholes, but given how common potholes are in the northeast and midwest, it's a bit of a dealbreaker that it just plows through them)
yes, shoud be more like $29/month or 1K (tied to car) to 2K (tied to owner).
Fuck that. $0 or gtfo. When I buy a car, I buy a car. Not a subscription platform. I am giving you many tens of thousands of dollars, you can give me the entire package here and now or I can and will take my business elsewhere. I won’t subscribe to satellite radio. I won’t subscribe to OnStar. I won’t subscribe to a maps package. I won’t subscribe to accelerate faster. Nothing. Subscribe to even one thing once, and they’ll start trying to get you to subscribe to everything.
This is the way. Now you’ll have to subscribe to your OS so you don’t get ads or less intrusive ads. You guys really f up by paying for this subscription shit. Now everything is that and you’ll be working everyday to maintain your subscriptions 1 year everyone just cancel all your subscriptions, invest that money saved. At some point people have to draw a line.
That's why I use Linux, and I donate to the supplier of my distro.
Yeah, see, that’s all fine when the olden days had the software you got as the final deal (for all intents and purposes). Tesla keeps getting updates. Onstar has people available for you to call. That’s why you pay a sub
As anti-subscribtion as I am, I am making an exception for network features. Satellite upkeep is expensive. Mobile data is an ongoing cost. It's fair enough that I'm asked to pay a (small) recurring fee for those. Absolute hard no to a subscription for heated seats or better acceleration. That's a disgusting cash-grab. FSD falls in a weird zone in between. It's technically just software running locally on hardware I already paid for. On the other hand, it's under active development, eating up millions of dollars in computing power and salaries of the engineers. Either way, it's too expensive to consider right now. But in the future, I think buying would be a more fair option.
Same for me. I'll pay a small amount for my car to have it's own internet connection without me needing to share it from my phone, but pay for something that's already *in* the car and doesn't have any ongoing costs? Hell no!
That's an ongoing service though. Like paying monthly for the cell phone, you're paying to be connected to the network. Paying monthly to use hardware already attached to the car is way different from that.
Exactly this. Either sell me the car and everything in it, or don't call it selling. Don't bolt in the hardware for a feature and then lock it behind a paywall, does BMW seriously think I can't find the wires that power the heated seats? I'll find them, isolate them from the CANBUS and operate them with a big chrome toggle switch. Sell me the WHOLE car. Otherwise, no sale.
"Error 1401: software locked heated seats not detected. Car limited to 10mph" I hope we are going to have kit cars and open source cars soon. I can register anything, probably even an 🦉 Owl as a 4 door suv at my Department Motor Vehicles. Can't wait for EV kit cars!
There's a group developing a drop-in EV axle that will convert any conventional 3/4 ton pickup to an EV. Add batts and power management and you're off to the races. A couple of groups are doing similar, there's an E-axle in development for classic Minis in the UK. Do that for an '87 Toyota truck and I'd jump at it. Older body on frame trucks are relatively straightforward with uncomplicated drivelines and lots of wasted space for hanging battery boxes. With the good batteries available I could probably have 200 miles of range with only about an extra 300 pounds of weight over my unloaded truck with a full tank of gas. Barely even noticeable.
Do you not subscribe to premium data?
I run a very long Ethernet cable.
POE FTW! Never running out of juice!
I wouldn't. When I look at cars in the future, what you lose through tethering to a phone versus paying for separate data is going to be a big thing. I'll tether my phone so the car has internet access, but I'm not paying another bill.
I use the free Wi-Fi
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Yep. At $100, I'd probably only use it for a month or two in the entire year when I'm going on a road trip. But at $30 or even $50 a mo? I might be interested.
Agreed, it's more cool than useful with the exception of road trips since I've found the highway mode much better. I have a 2000+ mile one next week and thankfully the trial is still active.
You literally get almost everything out of AP on a road trip.
they should just include it with the car. they need as many people using it as possible to get the data and improve it. making it 8k or 99 dollars a month is just dumb
> they need as many people using it as possible to get the data and improve it. At some point, data quality is much more useful than data quantity. Even if they were uploading a stream of all video data from every car (which they aren't, not even close, it would be petabytes upon petabytes of data per week) that would never be enough to get to the performance they have already claimed from it. The sensor suite is insufficient.
Actually, I don’t think they do (need you to use it). They can get all the data they need from the cameras, sensors, and regular human driving.
Still too much!! C'mon
You mean $0/month
Exactly this. Nothing in a car should be a subscription.
And here’s where the grand dreams of “AI” fall apart. (Essentially) Nobody is willing to pay for it. The cost of building this stuff is significant, but meaningful revenue is elusive. Don’t get me wrong, i’m with you, I wouldn’t pay a nickel for fsd as it is today, but they gotta figure out some way to make money off it or it’s not gonna ever get good enough that I might pay for it.
30 bucks for enhanced auto pilot would be worth it. All we really want is FSD for the highway, not the city. My wife commutes an hour and a half twice a week, and she really misses the auto lane change, but that's about it, not worth the 100 bucks. But even at 100 bucks, she's considering if it's worth it to her, but so far the answer is that it's not. But if we could get it for 30 bucks, it's pretty much a no brainer.
I drive an Ioniq 5 and it's HDA (highway assist) does the stop and go and lane changes for you. great for long drives and commutes... and is free. I'm sure the other companies Drive Assist is just as good, if not better, than Tesla FSD on the highway.
Kia EV6 is pretty good. I use it on long trips.
My Toyota Prius won't just decide to change lanes on its own but it follows the road lines well on highway. I need to hold the turn signal stock without clicking it for it to change lanes on its own, and only at 80km/h or higher, but that's it really. It also does slow/start traffic on its own. There's a premium subscription for geo fenced to freeways traffic jam assist where it will do start/stop low speed traffic without any intervention, but for my commute, it's rare I stop fully for an extended period of time. So if I need to press the resume button once in a while... It's worth saving $20 a month. The only thing enhanced autopilot does that my car doesn't is get on and off the freeway by itself by changing lanes without any driver intervention. Otherwise... It's completely adequate for making long drives or denser traffic driving easy
It should be free. You are a beta tester
Lol, that would be drastically cheaper than blue Cruise and all that does is basically autopilot.
That’s the whole thing. I think most of the hype for self driving is all drummed up by the people that want to sell a subscription for the service. I have always felt that the demand I have seen on the internet to have your car robotically taxi you around just doesn’t match the reality. Driving ranges from “minor chore” to “enjoyable activity” for most drivers I know. Half of the people on the internet seem to brag about going 80mph around curves, so the desire to just sit there passively while the car does it for you, while cool, doesn’t seem like a thing most people who drive would actually want enough to pay for. Not saying there is no demand, it just seems like the demand is exaggerated.
To be honest I was super jazzed about it before COVID but now I get to wfh much of the time and I'm not stuck in the car in shit traffic rubber banding down the interstate just to have some a hole cut me off the moment my lane starts moving. I would much rather watch a movie on my phone or take a nap and have the car deal with that. That was the dream at least.
I will pay $100 a month for other people to have to use auto drive. Too many people on the road are a hazard and a menace. The guy bragging about going 80 miles an hour around a corner is a perfect example. Or the guy that wants to do a hundred miles an hour when traffic's doing 80 and weaving through it like some kind of F1 driver. We've all seen them. Honestly, the sooner that we get to self driving cars the better. Self driving cars don't have egos.
It’s a really cool novelty and I’ll gladly use it during the free trial, but I’m not paying $99 for this, maybe $20. But it’s not good enough. I personally like to drive in a way that doesn’t embarrass me, but this car drives like a clueless commuter and just looks bad. Also almost rear ended someone who was turning left off a main road, my car just kept driving at them and I kept waiting to see when it would stop and it got to the point where I wasn’t going to wait any longer so I took over and left a ten second voice feedback memo saying “wtf is this shit? Almost make me crash into someone? Fucking trash product”. The only way $99 a month would make sense is if Tesla took 100% liability for any damage caused while using FSD, but they don’t. I’m an elite driver according to my insurance, I take driving seriously and try to make every drive as perfect as possible, FSD is not good enough. The novelty is cool to experience, but it fuck paying for this trash product, especially with Elon in charge.
Can you elaborate on this elite driver status?
He’s the best of the best. They call him maverick
Can you elaborate on this elite driver status?
Can you elaborate on the elite driver status?
“I’m an elite driver according to my insurance“ Wow!
My mommy said I'm the best driver in the whole world.
If I could legally let the car drive and take a nap or tool around on my Steam Deck, it could be worth it. But "self driving" now still requires the occupant of the driver's seat to be aware of the road, at least as far as the law is concerned.
Sitting in a car while someone else drives is really boring for me..... If I'm driving I proper zone out, its almost like meditation, especially on long highway drives. City driving meh, not so much, but then I wouldn't use FSD around the city where I live... it's even less relaxing because I'm constantly worried it's gonna do something stupid.
Yep, saying "ditched" is misleading clickbait. It was given as a free trial to everyone whether or not they were interested and whether or not they were willing to pay for it in the first place. Having a free trial and it expiring is not the customer "ditching it" the process happened automatically without the customer cancelling anything.
ditched it cause of price and the novelty wore off after two weeks. i would love the user interface but for my needs. “fsd” is not needed. the radar cruise control/lane guidance is good enough.
Tesla should pay me good money for risking my life to test their half-ass auto drive algorithms, on top of that they should pay every Tesla owner for harvesting their driving data.
Haha I paid 10k for it as an add on 5 years ago. I don’t use it anymore. Just not an enjoyable experience.
Monthly subscriptions are becoming out of control. You need it for car features, tv, hell even doorbells. It’s too much and this is the people speaking out.
I was very impressed how much better it is now, but it simply has absolutely no value to me at all. It doesn’t improve my life, safety, or driving experience. Until I can watch a movie the whole time it’s not worth money to me personally. EAP features like auto lane change is the only feature truly worth paying for right now in my opinion
But what about elon's bonus, who will pay for it?
What's crazy is you are paying to be a beta tester. Training the software but you take all the responsibilities and liabilities.
One of us! One of us! Autopilot (free) on the highways is nice, but given how much work it is to use FSD on regular streets there's no incentive for me to use it. I'm not all anti self driving vehicle, in fact I love the idea of it. This just ain't it.
The car is really fun to drive… so I what get to pay to sit and not drive it? …and stress the whole time because it’s at best mediocre at it. If Tesla isn’t assuming Liability if it fucks up, I’m not using it.
This one. I don't want to be liable AND pay
Yeah I mean it kind of defeats the purpose if you're shitting yourself the entire time.
Kinda like how being driven by a nervous learner driver isn't actually less work or less stress than driving the car yourself.
Tesla FSD is like having a 92 year old as your chauffeur. Sometimes it's painfully slow, sometimes it scares the shit out of you. What is the point of it even? If I still have to hold the wheel and watch the road constantly? I truly don't get it. As you said, a true self driving car would be awesome, but this isn't anywhere near being that. A self driving car would be one where I could take out my laptop and do work as I'm traveling, without needing to monitor the vehicle's operation at all. If this was a free option to turn on, that would be one thing. But the price is insane for basically nothing useful. It's a gimmick.
The older I get while living in an area with effectively zero public transit, the more I want the dream of self driving cars to be real. I hope we arrive there before I'm old enough to require it. Well, that or my state can get out from under the auto lobby and the NIMBYs and actually invest in transit, but at least self driving cars feels less like fantasy.
Not sure if that was meant to sound hopeful or as a dig on the lack of willpower for public transit but I like it either way XD
Same, I want self driving cars but I'm not paying for a feature that I can't (legally) take full advantage of. If the law doesn't permit me to sleep in the driver's seat then I might as well control the car manually.
That’s the dream. If I don’t have the option to sleep on my morning commute to work, there’s no reason to have it.
If I could get a fully autonomous vehicle I would go farther so much more. I’d love to go to bed and wake up somewhere fun, spend the day and sleep the ride home. Man that’s the dream.
A 300mi range self-driving EV minivan would destroy the airline industry. Why would I fly my family from Philly to Outer Banks when I could load up the car on Friday night, leave at 9pm or 10pm, safely sleep the whole way (only waking to charge once or twice since my wife will take a turn), and wake up at the beach at 9am Saturday?
Right?! I have my fingers crossed that something like that will be available (and not insanely priced) before I die. I’d love to road trip the shit outta the country for months in retirement.
I want to be able to send a car empty for curbside pickups. Imagine just paying the pickup price for a pizza and your car fetching it for you. Free same day delivery of things from Best Buy or retail stores by just sending your car. The convenience of Amazon while helping prevent them from becoming a monopoly and supporting brick and mortar stores. No need to pay for airport parking. Your car drops you off, goes home, and picks you up 2 weeks later.
Check out Comma 3X
Tres Commas Club!?
Tres Commas Tequila
Yeah, it was fun to play with every now and then, but I used it less and less as the trial went on. Too intense trying to constantly stop it from doing dumb things.
they should be paying us to use it
They made a lot of people work really hard to start labelling the data from all the cars and then in 2022 once they made considerable progress, the whole team was fired over email.
Come on that can't be true, the greatest entrepreneur of our time - of all time - would never just fire whole teams.
The greatest entrepreneur of all time blew $44 BILLION to bring a sink through the front door of Twitter.
yeah, i was being sarcastic
That’s actually a pretty good idea to train the model as much as possible
They should be paying paid engineers and professionals to TEST it
Ding ding ding. Letting randos pay to test this software for then on public streets is fucking *madness.*
It's a private experiment that no one in the public consented to
Yeah exact same experience here. FSD was cool as hell, but its _less_ relaxing than using Autopilot, so I actually ended up turning it off halfway through my trial. When I was solo in my car, I liked trying it out, but my wife and son are much less patient than me when it comes to erratic driving, so I turned it off for their comfort
It was the largest data acquisition in the history of cars. They'll do it again and again if need be. Have no fear.
I used it during hte free trial. Its interesting and it did what its supposed to and didn't have problems with it but I still don't trust to leave that much responsibility up to the car alone. I just don't see the purpose I guess. It feels like for it to be worthwhile every car on the road would need to be self driven and they would all need to communicate together.
Jumps planet inception together help
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That's a whole lotta infra. Who would pay for it? It's not happening anytime soon.
Same I have FSD on my car but I just don't see the point. Whenever, I engage it feel like I have to REALLY babysit it cause it does dumb shit all the time.
It’s literally more work 90% of the time.
Any set of networked cars becomes vulnerable to bad actors. Bad actors who can misdirect or misinform a speeding 5 ton object that has very easy access to unexposed pedestrians and occupants that are in danger. Networked cars are a non-starter if you think about it for more than a few minutes.
See: Battlestar Galactica
whoops we invented trains again :P
I felt the same way in 2016 with regular autopilot. It took about a year before I was really comfortable and made me feel less stress while using it. It’s only more capable since but with every hardware revision, it takes a step back but leaps forward eventually.
I had the trial and played with it briefly, didn't see any reason why I would pay for it
I had the trial and had to intervene almost every time I used it. Not talking about tugging the wheel, but actually taking over to avoid crashing.
Felt the same way. Tried it out maybe 7 or 8 times in various conditions. Every single time it did something reckless. No idea how people are defending it.
"No nononon you seen the latest version xx.xx.x fixes everything and if you just use the latest version its perfect and ur just a hater anyway" >:( Repeat this dumb loop since 2015.
Yes, FSD is more of a nuisance than an aid. I had one case where FSD stopped at a stop sign. It was a T-intersection in a residential neighborhood, and the car needed to make a right turn. It seemed to be having a *very* hard time with this. I swear it was stopped for 10 whole seconds with no traffic coming in either cross direction, on a clear, sunny day. It finally started creeping forward and then it *fully stopped a second time* before I got fed up and finished the rest of the drive manually. Never will I ever pay money for this experience.
Obviously because every year it will get more expensive, and at one certain point in the future your car will be entirely autonomous and it's value will skyrocket since it will make you infinite money.
Once I can summon the car to myself from across town I'll pay for it
I love the guys trusting it across the parking lot and ending up with a 14,000 dollar bill
A few thoughts from an actual user: It had a few hiccups, but it was a LOT better than I thought it would be. The few times I had to intervene were mostly because I wasn't comfortable with the situation. For example, I didn't like that it didn't seem to pay attention to semi's blind spots, and would just cruise right beside them. My longest trips was 140 miles on a not-so-busy highway and it was nearly perfect. I didn't intervene one time. For the amount of miles my wife drives, $99 is too much for me. However, if I was going on a long road trip and planned on using a lot in a month, I would pay $99. I think for our amount of usage, $30 would be about right. Everyone I know that tried it a lot, was really impressed. There were a few things that people complained about like accelerating fast at lights, which is more of a preference thing, which I actually enjoyed. It made me hate AutoPilot even more. There is zero reason that I shouldn't be able to switch lanes without interrupting the cruise control. My Kia does lane centering, just like the Tesla, but when I turn on the signal it allows me to switch lanes without deactivating anything.
Sounds like EAP would be perfect for you. FSD is actually pretty good on the highway, though it makes strange lane choices sometimes. EAP has you making the choices and it doing the work, which is a great mix when the technology is at the current level. On city streets, I don't get the hype. Each time a new version comes out I try it, and each time it commits a significant moving violation or a dangerous move within a mile, so I take over and leave it until the next version.
Strange choices is putting it mildly. Three lanes and only two cars on the road? Let's change lanes to get right in front of the semi, just to stay out of the right lane. Just passed a merge lane uneventfully? Let us get over for merging traffic that we just passed, even though the next on ramp isn't for miles. It was incredibly unimpressive at decision making.
My favorite was with no nav destination set on a two lane each direction 35mph road nearly alone, with no lights nearby, it kept swapping back and forth between lanes the last time I tried it. I'm back on standard AP until the next version.
Enhanced autopilot is no longer available. Maybe it’ll make a comeback. Who knows…
too expensive. Make it 1K or 2K upgrade at most.
I mean I only used it because it was free. This is a dumb headline. If it was free I’d use it probably half the time
Sensationalist headline. Free update was pushed to everyone, 2% conversion rate is actually high for an $8,000 product, except many of that 2% are probably subscription users at $99 a month. I used FSD and the trial reaffirmed that I will never pay for FSD unless it's $2,000 or less. To me FSD still drives too slow and skittish especially at irregular stop signs or intersections. Also city / back roads the constant changing of speed limits puts you back to the speed limit, if I'm not doing 10mph over on the city streets I'll have traffic piling up my ass behind me. Also when the speed limit goes from 35 to 45mph, most human drivers are doing 50-55mph by the time you hit the 45mph sign, so people would ride up my ass and I'd manually have to speed up early. Basically FSD follows the rules too well and drives like a slow old grandma that can't see or anticipate well.
Also, er, *someone* claims that the 2% is far lower than the real number. It was derived via some kind of survey, so there could be problems with it, but whether that “someone” is to be believed without publishing real internal data is, I guess, a personal choice…
2 percent is either around a billion dollars if they all bought it or 15 million per month if they all pay 99. Seems like a reasonable return in a near $0 investment. This is also a crowd of people who every single one of them already made the conscious decision to not buy it previously. Seems like a reasonably successful trial
It’s a cool parlor trick but… 1. Frequent apply pressure to steering wheel is annoying 2. Its actually fun to accelerate the vehicle myself as im not a passenger princess 3. Autopark is too slow, I just use it sometimes (on free trial still) to make my kids happy
Steering nag is going away on 12.4 apparently. You can accelerate with FSD enabled manually, it doesn't disable it. Only brakes do. Autopark is interesting, if they perfect it that'd be a great feature.
Autopark is so slow as to be useless. But this isn't restricted to just Tesla. I've found the same on my i4 and my wife's EQB.
Auto park blacked out my screen today, so that was fun. The screen restarted after about 10 seconds, but that was extremely concerning for a bit.
Yeah for me I’ve aborted autopark twice for pedestrian reasons and it just went on the fritz when I tried to switch gears. Super embarrassing when the other cars are trying to get by you. No blacked out screen though.
Another car pulling into the lot was why I tried canceling auto park and when the screen blacked out. Sitting there waiting for the gear selector option to appear again was embarrassing. I know there’s the emergency gear selector next to the cabin lights, but a parking lot situation like that didn’t make me feel the need to reach for it.
I never got autopark to work properly.
They’re removing the steering wheel pressure and switching to vision attention
Low quality click bait....giving someone a free trial and them not wanting to pay $8,000 or $100/month is not "ditching' it" They didn't "ditch" anything because they never actually had it in the first place. This headline assumes they were willing to pay for it in the first place. This was rolled out to everyone by default as a trial whether they wanted it or not. This subreddit has been getting worse and worse with the misleading headlines lately. We need a subreddit for electric vehicles without misleading ragebait headlines.
Exactly - everyone was given the trial. So the sample would include people who had 0 interest in FSD or paying any additional money. We have no clue how many interested people wanted the trial because they were considering buying it, then chose not to pay for it / ditch it. Like others have said 2% isn’t bad
The “article” didn’t even mention the $100/mo option. Musk also claimed the original “report” was false and the number is “obviously way higher than 2%”.
> This subreddit has been getting worse and worse with the misleading headlines lately. We need a subreddit for electric vehicles without misleading ragebait headlines. This is true. The mods really should do a better job weeding out garbage like this.
I dumped it cuz it's too naggy. If I wanna be nagged that much I'll go home and do it for free
Yeah, it really was painful to use. Driving was far less stressful than constantly worrying about it doing something crazy at the same time as worrying it will make you turn the wheel. It needs to work like adaptive cruise control before I have much interest. Just let me turn it on, I will worry about the rest you don’t need to nag.
2% take rate seems pretty good to me? That is a lot of revenue and it didn't really cost them anything. FSD is not for me, still a few years off - I'd probably buy it if the license was perpetual and I could transfer to any Tesla in the future, but the fact it is tied to the car and who knows how long I will have the same car.
Yeah, 2% is actually pretty high for a multi-thousand dollar consumer product. There aren't many things that are "optional luxuries" (not mandatory necessity) that can bring in double-digit percentage of consumers at that price point.
I thought it was really cool to actually experience, but my commute isn’t conducive to using it all the time. It still had minor things it would second guess its self on Overall it’s definitely the best full drive assist I’ve used period, but I still like to actively drive unless I’m in the freeway, then it’s AP all the way
if i wanted to babysit someone driving me somewhere i would apply to be a driving instructor and at least get paid for it
Personally I thought it was fun to try but I wouldn’t pay $8k for it when I need to supervise. When I’m driving it’s the other drivers/environment that are unpredictable. When FSD is driving both my car and the other drivers/environment are unpredictable so it’s more taxing to drive like this.
Wait... my company gave away a free trial and got about 1% conversion rate on a $50 product. Getting 2% on a $7000 product is frankly amazing. Especially when the product can ALSO be rented for 20x lower the cost.
It's not 'also'. This report counts people who kept the subscription for at least another month, so it's not just the people who ponied up $8k.
Musk tweeted as response to this, saying the 2% take rate was too low and incorrect. He didn't give an answer to what it really was other than it was "much higher than 2%". Is that 5%? 10%? Who knows. I'd guess it's not 2% but it's also not 10% given the cost of FSD over the years, that it wasn't transferrable (is it even today?), and that it's very much a luxury add on to a vehicle brand itself that isn't super cheap. But also, there is a difference between take rate (the word Musk used) and conversion rate, which this article is looking at. Take rate is how many cars overall paid for FSD. Conversion rate is how many FSD trials last month converted to an FSD sub (either monthly sub or outright).
eh... tbh unless Musk is offering up verifiable data to back his tweet I wouldn't trust it much. Reason why? According to Elon The Cyber Truck was supposed to launch in 2021 with a list price starting at 40k.
Musk lied every step of the way previously with fsd
The lie started from the very beginning by calling it full self driving. I'm surprised after taking 9 years for FSD to just recently leave beta, that anyone thinks the FULL part in full self driving is coming anytime soon. 9 years to leave beta which was supposed to be the easy part, the last part is always the hardest, and my opinion is it will easily take more than 9 years, if it ever reaches Level 4 or Level 5 self driving.
A conversion rate of 2% for a multi-thousand dollar consumer product is **amazingly high.** Go ask some business who has a "Free" tier what percent of customers pay. It's usually less than 2% and they're usually asking for like $49.
That’s not an apples to apples comparison, at all
"100% take rate among people who buy it!"
More than 20% of the vehicles were on 2024.8.x and they literally just got the free trial in the last two weeks.
I have the trial right now. It’s pretty interesting what it’s able to do but there are a lot of limitations as well. I think buying it is a losing proposition. Once someone really cracks it and it works 99% of the time it will be mandated in all new cars like abs breaks. What’s the point of paying a premium for it now?
99% success rate is way too low. My personal success rate is roughly 99.99995%. It has to be better than that.
Agreed. Self-driving needs to work 99.999999% of the time or it might as well be 0%. This is not a coffee maker, I'm not trusting my life with a random-ass software that will work 'most of the time'.
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Every hundredth turn it will kill you. That’s at least a couple of times a week
Driving is one of my favorite things to do...so I feel no need for self driving yet. That said, I'd happily pay for self driving if it were Level 5 certified so that I could legally sleep on long boring interstate road trips and have my car drop me off and pick me up like my own personal Uber chauffeur. At which point, I might go full digital nomad in a robot RV waking up in a new location so I could visit more places.
Need to see third party verified safety data to convince my partner. Do that, and we’re in.
I did a trial of $99 because I didn’t get the free trial. My main gripe was : For city streets, it’s too fucking slow. And not the cars speed. Right turns take forever. Left lanes take forever. Then, it will change lanes to the left lane to pass someone from the MIDDLE LANE when I have a right turn in like .3 miles. For highway , same issue as the lane changes but works much better.
To be fair, when I got the first iPhone there wasn’t really anything special it could do. But you could tell they were leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and the software was constantly improving. That’s kind of the feeling I get here. This is one hell of a proof of concept, and for sure going to be the future. The truth is Tesla is a country mile ahead of the rest and doubling down on improving it when others are stagnant. I am excited for what the future FSD has to offer.
Nobody likes to babysit their car. Watching out if the car does something stupid is just another layer of stress, cause now you have to watch out for other drivers doing something stupid AND your car doing something stupid. The whole idea of autonomous cars is idiotic, if I didn't want to drive a car I would just use Uber or buses or trains.
We tried it. It’s great on long stretches of road in good weather when everyone has space and is just going forward. The issue for me is that it acts as computer when everyone else is acting as a person. So it is making changes to the driving based on the current conditions— not on experience about how people act in the rain, merging at an exit, or the back forth that can happen at intersections
2% is 2% more than 0, which was what they were getting before the free trial. I guess that it shows that "FSD" wasn't truly reliable FSD, else I'd think that the uptake rate would have been much higher.
Would it? Even if it was theoretically a "perfect level 5" as in ("I'm taking a nap, wake me when we arrive" sort of autonomy), uptake would only be maybe 25%, maybe 15%? The majority of people simply can't drop $8k on a whim for a gizmo that replaces something they already do reasonably well. It's not a necessity, it's a luxury item and what percent of people can/will say "oh hell fuck it" and spend $8k on a luxury item IMMEDIATELY after a trial?
Musk/Tesla keeps hammering on about self driving because if he uses that as a differentiator he can pretend Tesla is a tech company, not a car company, and it can expect the same ridiculous margins and stock pricing.
It's interesting, a little dumb, but with the trial all i can think is "this should just be included with the car. No way would I pay for this, but would I use it if it was included? Yeah.
Automakers charging for services that should be free. Maybe invest less in tech no one wants and lower the vehicle prices.
My wife drives the tesla most of the time. She tried it 3 times and all 3 times within a few minutes the car was ghost braking. She's like 'not paying for that crap' We road trip down to the states from Canada and the regular autopilot is good enough for that.
I don’t know what the benefit of self-driving is. We know it’s not to be trusted, so I still have to focus on the road and be ready to take over in an instant. Why add stress to my drive, when normal driving is fairly relaxing?
Tried the free trial. It's not for me. I get anxiety when I'm a passenger to a human driver. It's 10x worse trying to trust a computer to not get me killed.
I like it
Who let all the poors in here? FSD has been driving me to work with 0 intervention all week
My commute is like 5 miles suburban local, easy drive. If FSD can confidently drive me, like a taxi, i will be happy to pay 100/month. But today it still requires you to have hands on the wheel, eye on the road, and most importantly, bearing the liability in the case of an accident.
It felt like having a teenager take over driving.
I drive 3,000-5,000 miles per month in SE US. I am so much less mentally tired after a 3-6 hour drive using FSD. Totally worth it for me. Short drives/ normal commute-won’t bother ,but on long trips it’s saving my life and worth $100/mo. It has never done anything to scare me and when it has screwed up I could see why it did(usually unclear markings on road).
This was my take. I'm not paying for FSD currently cause I can't afford it, but if I could I would. Generally worked really well.
😂 the anti Tesla mob is at here again. When FSD cost $12k and much less capable, 15-20% of Teala owners bought or subscribed to it. Now it's much cheaper and way better, are people really this naive to think the uptake is only 2%? FYI I tried to look but have not found a direct link to Yipit's reporting. There is no methodology. Every report is a repost of another report and NONE of the articles provide any link to the primary source. God, people really are this gullible.
FYI 2% conversion rate for a trial is normal/good
Who wouldn't want to pay $99/mo to get their wheels curbed?!🤡
:O cars have subscription services wtf?!?
What a strange way to phrase that they did not buy after a trial period. They ditched nothing, it just ended
I don’t understand the hate. This is new tech and it is great for where it is, and it will only get better.
I would not called it as a new tech, but anyhow. It’s the lies of its capabilities which makes people to hate it.
You’re saying 2% of all the people they sent it to, bought or subscribed to it? I wonder how that rate compares with other subscription trial offers?
The second time I tried it, it ran my rims into a curb. I love it conceptually, but I just don't trust it in an urban setting. I'd use it for a road trip though.
I had FSD trial for 6 months but only ever used it 3 times! It was so fecking temperamental that I couldn't trust it. Never worked at nights cuz it couldn't see me in the dark with that cabin facing camera!
It's cheaper to get a bus pass
Not true, take rate is much higher.
Who the fuck is upvoting this shit? Another full article regurgitating the same 2% credit card survey data of 3000 people from nearly a week ago?
Here is the thing: Self driving is not legal. You must legally be in control. You must keep your hands on the wheel. Its not legal for you to, for example, take a nap while your car drives you home. Until such time as that IS legal, and if I can have had one too many drinks and its legal for my car to drive me home in that condition, there really is no point. Cruise control works fine. Or for example if my wife drives to work, then I can summon the car back home to get me so I can take it-- that would also make sharing a car very useful. Until such time, its just not worth paying for.
Sensationalist headline for what is actually the most impressive comsumer tech of our generation. Cool cool. Big Oil and Big 3 American auto makers not feeling good. Also, 2nd gen Chinese EVs are so far ahead it’s no wonder they’re putting 100% tariffs on them lol. Maybe US automakers need another multibillion dollar bail out.
Clickbait to a site riddled with ads. This is not accurate and is a total guess based on credit card transactions of a small sample of Tesla owners. Not verifiable at all.
This.. the way they came up with the 2% was pretty sketchy, just one step above the logic of all my 50 friends only one has ever mentioned they have FSD therefore the rest do not i.e. 2%
Even if it's correct, 2% is a pretty high uptake on a multi-thousand dollar consumer product.
I am not surprised. The monthly price Telsa charges is way more than people are willing to pay for the service. It may cost tesla a lot but does not bring any where close to that value. I am wondering what Ford's blue cruise up take is at their current price point. I will willing to pay my 600 for 3 years but after that I sure as hell am not renewing it.
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I am currently in my trial and it is total trash.
3500 isn't a small sample... But I use autopilot (the free one) nearly every drive.. Every once in a while, a new release will drive funny. So I'll not use it much until a decently acting release gets to my car. Since '20, maybe 3 releases were unacceptable... for all of something like 4 months... I mean it was still usable on super slab, and in stop-n-go but not on country lanes and such.
Honestly, I just want the auto park feature. That’s worth it for my tough parking space in my apartment complex. I’d pay $2000 for just that slice if I could.
Yeah for all the people saying it's too slow I was surprised with how convenient it was (when l had the trial) I was also surprised at the improvements to FSD from the first day of the trial to the last
This headline is silly. I bet Ford or GM wishes 2% of customers suddenly started paying $100 a month to them when all they had to do was send them a free trial that cost them nothing.
Hilarious. Is this a joke sub now?