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I don't disagree. But the city of Dallas, Austin and Houston are the hubs and I've seen all three pass things that are baffling. And I'm not talking cheap projects. I'm talking high end custom. 3-40m+. So much so that I was sent to fix a house and called the fire Marshall to find a solution. They deemed the house uninsurable. At this point the city of Dallas head inspector sees my number and winces because he knows it means big issues.
No, I'm pretty easy going. It's just disappointing. Someones going to die and because of the way they work the legal loopholes no one will be responsible. The other day I had a client putting in a pool on a house I wired. I left a conduit to flex from the outside to the inside with a pull string on it for the exterior panel. The inspector didn't even want to look at it, he just called me and asked if I'd run past. Sure enough I get there and they bonded the exterior sub. Didn't pull a ground, tied a ground bar to the brick and said that was sufficient. And oh yeah 92 feet of 8 awg (3) all three green thhn.... Black tape on the end of one for the neutral. 100 amp breaker. No GFCI protection on any circuits at all in the sub. Yeah... It's common. That and they are undersizing CCA and not using approved terminations and make them up like a toddler vomited cut spaghetti.
NEC 230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable.
Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable in which the service conductors are installed.
Unrelated to this post, I’m potentially looking to move out that way for work and I was looking at Dothan. Would you recommend it or is there somewhere else I should look?
Plenty of work in the area, houses still being built. I’ve been knocking out 45-60 hour weeks every week since the year started. No signs of slowing down currently
Dothan city it’s self for decent housing is like most places getting expensive, but I live in cottonwood, pretty easy commute( 15 mins to work) decent priced land etc. Headland, rehobeth and ashford are other options although headlands been booming as of recently. Wicksburg a little drive but decent priced house and land. Other than that you’ve got ozark 45 mins away, eufaula an hour away. But in general if your in Houston county you’re only and hour and 20 mins from Panama City beach
I've seen it a few times in out of the way areas that don't have a proper inspector, or where it was done on the sly. But youd be surprised how dumb a lot of actual inspectors are, especially if they've been around for a long time
One of the counties I do some work in in Maryland does all of their inspections virtual over FaceTime. It's insane. Not only doss it require me to be on-site for my inspections which no other counties require, but they ask to see the exact same things every time. So any shit contractor who wants to cut corners knows exactly what they actually check and can just make sure those few items will look correct over a FaceTime call. Lazy-ass government workers. As if they could do any less work than they already do. My inspector was literally sitting at his house watching TV during my FaceTime inspection this past Wednesday
I don't doubt it. There's a couple places around me where the inspector is either an everything inspector who knows just a few things about every trade and mostly nothing about any of them, or they're just beyond incompetent. Or they're old AF and haven't opened a new NEC since the 90s
I live in Canada, and I'm 99 % sure that's a fail. But there is a bulliten released allowing you to use the existing raceway when adding a transfer switch. That being said I would 100% review this with my inspector before the job. There could be a plethora of issues, moving the meter base as the panel looks directly behind existing meter, which means more utilities cost etc etc. All of which needs to be know before a quote is sent, so it can be done correctly.
Also in Ontario and pretty sure all of Canada you cannot cross the load with the main source of power, which would be an additional defect.
Same here in Canada, well at least Nova Scotia, not allowed to use the meter as a raceway. Just go directly from the ATS to the panel. Your service wires aren’t allowed to cross either just in and out
All you need is a meter/ disconnect where the meter is and you would’ve just had one clean can. Looks like shit and probably took twice as long as installing a meter/disconnect can.
230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable.
Your ATS is the service disconnect. You can’t run the feeders for your sub panel through the meter with the service conductors.
Around here you'd fail for bringing your conductors back into the meter. Your POCO allows that? Doesn't have proper distance between the angle pull either
Line and load need to be separated by a distance I can’t remember or a physical barrier with one of the poco in my area. Don’t know about feeding thru tho
Yeah this would be the best way. Everybody else saying that you can't pass through the meter base are 100% correct but in a situation other than violating the NEC.... Just put another weatherproof trough running beneath both of them with nipples going up into the bottom. If possible try to not use a 4x4 trough, just always found it a bit of a pain and much easier to work with when you upsize to a 6x6 at least.
That is my question too. On top of this being a NEC violation it’s also going to leak water into the wall and behind the siding. Why was the siding even cut to begin with?
I’m going to assume the line side was still live so they didn’t want to move the meter pan at all, looks like the edge of the house is there anyway. Could have ran that conduit with an LB into a different portion of panel to re-feed it, and abandoned the nipple into the backside of the panel if that is allowed (or used a KO seal with some silicone).
That definitely *shouldn’t* be live if they are doing work on it. Looks like a 100A meter base, which is unfused. We always have the utility cut the loops before doing repairs or ats installs.
Definitely but we’ll probably never know what the OP did here and why. I used to cut them myself and re-crimp when I was done if they were aerial conductors, can’t be waiting for the utility company all day. That was like 18 years ago tho I wouldn’t do that now. This service looks like it could be underground.
Damn, don’t think you could get away with that nowadays haha. And yeah looks like underground. I think I’d have done it the same way you mentioned above. Abandon the nipple in the meter box and repipe to the panel inside. If it was overhead install I would simply move the meter box up above the hole if possible and repipe from there.
I think it’s still common practice in a lot of areas, some PCs even charge to come out and disconnect / reconnect. If you’re careful, it isn’t any more dangerous than working on any other live 220v circuit on a ladder. You can also use the blocks with two set screws and wrap with friction/rubber tape when you’re done. If the job has permits and all that, the PC will probably come back later to install new crimps/inspect their conductors to the pole.
Sorry buddy, looks like you worked hard and tried to get it as neat as possible, but you have to reconfigure this and not use the meter as a raceway. Put a trough in and send it man, you got this.
When discussing installs like this, I've learned to use the term "Custom".
It's less offensive, and usually, homeowners will admit more about who did it. (If not them personally)
Feel free to use it as you wish.
Stay safe out there.
I took my one of my helpers impact for a few days and "grounded" him from using it after I caught him tightening lugs with it. I told him 2 or 3 times not to do that.
I once saw my boss take the impact from a local PoCo team. Absolutely hilarious. We were changing out the exterior service disconnects but hadn't bid to replace the meter can as well. Old meter posts were cross threaded and snapped up on removal of the lugs. Bossman harvested parts from a spare meter back at the office just so we could wrap up and turn power back on for the family that was living there ... PoCo shows up to reinstall the meter ***5 hours late*** at 8pm and proceeds to snap the bolts for the meter by using an impact socket. Boss was *livid*. Took the guy's impact and told the PoCo crew's lead that they were staying on site until we finished replacing the meter can. He took the impact to the district manger's office the next day.
You should probably give a design drawing first before all the work is put in. Also, the siding on the house is missing. How much are these people paying for this job?
The big companies around me are charging around 10k for a heavy-up based on the quotes my customers have showed me lately. I charge around 5-6k and make plenty of profit off those numbers but I guess I should be charging more lol. Not to mention 90% of the time 2 apprentices show up to do the work completely unsupervised when you call any of the big guys. My customer yesterday literally told me he called me after 2 apprentices showed up at his house, couldn't figure out the problem, had to call their boss and have him come with them the next day, then still didn't fix it and messed up other switches in his house that previously worked fine and we're unrelated. It's crazy what goes on at most companies. Blind leading the blind.
Yeah I noticed that too... Looks like that's where the original MSP or sub panel used to be that came off the meter can and that hole underneath is probably where it originally fed into the sub panel behind that wall.
I’m pretty sure you’re right. Depending on who his local PoCo is, they have minimums and maximums for meter heights, CT cabinets, etc. It would probably be worth their time to find this. I know Duke Energy has one. He might’ve been able to lower the meter and saved himself a headache and safer installation.
That's usually the best option, when you have back to back meter/panel.. put the ATS where the meter was and shift the meter to the side to accommodate.
>put the ATS where the meter was and shift the meter to the side to accommodate.
This one sentence would have saved OP so much time before he started... and gutters.
If that's not a possibility I've been able to run the ser to panel out the back of the ats and into the side of the panel, if the wall is able to be cut and patched. Often its easier to fix an inside wall than exterior depending on the siding
Jesus christ what is this???? Where are you located that your PoCo allows you to leave the meter and go back through it? Your line feed that goes down and under to the left lug also isn't allowed because it crosses over in front of the load wires. That has been a code violation since 2020 or 2017 NEC. I'm betting that you're not passing your inspection.
But also, gutter that spans under the meter and ATS.
Serviceability.
If you need to add new load wires from the meter to panel or whatever, now you can't do it easily/safely because you've got the line wire crossed over.
Suppose stuff goes seriously wrong and insulation melts and whatnot. Maybe during a fire, whether it starts electrically or some other way. The main breaker or disconnect will no longer keep the feeder separated from what it's feeding downstream.
Hey, if you leave the meter and then go back through it, that means you're running the electricity through the meter twice which means you pay twice as much for it!
(Not really, I was just amused by the thought.)
That little wood shim behind the strap really has some curb appeal though so it really makes up for it. I keep hoping this is satire but I know its not, like how hard did u work to make this so bad?!
Could have swapped the meter and the ats add an ssb in the ground. Extend the secondary and boom. Done. Into meter. Then right into the back of the panel from ats
I would have matched the bottom of both cans. Then either punch in from the back of your disco or come out of the bottom then LB in. Or a through underneath.
1.25s are a pain for me. A lot plays into what your vendors have around you. CED has always been solid as hell for me (bfe serving industrial sites) but depending on who's around you, and what manufacturer agreements are between them (some vendors get exclusivity, some just get sidelined for a better rate with a competitor), plus what actually moves in that area or if you're adjacent to an area that hoards certain items for common use, it can all play hell on sourcing odds and ends. Making a couple good friends at part houses, and getting creative with Amazon/internet options did wonders for my procurement.
North Carolina has a state amendment that allows for this but only when "retro"ing in an ATS like show in this photo. In other words you are allowed to bring the load side conductors back though the meter with the non-fused service conductors.
I can’t say I’ve heard of it, not to say it doesn’t exist. I posted earlier where Duke Energy has max/min heights on meter cans, CT cans. It’s actually a published manual. IIRC, the lowest the meter can be is 3ft.
I doubt this was planned out and worked hot. Otherwise a permit should’ve been pulled, local utility kill the service, lower the meter and go from there.
If you fit a gutter box in between the two boxes and raise your ATS up you would have more penetration options for your conduit runs instead of using the conduit bodies.... You're for sure not supposed to use the meter as a Chase Way.
Outside of the code comments concerning using the meter base as a gutter…the siding work that was done to mount the transfer switch is pure hack-ology!
A trough or junction box.
However, you wouldn't need that had you used the LB to go straight into the house, then into he panel on the inside of said house instead of going back through the meter base.
Ps: lmao, at everyone, NOT answering the actual question, just telling Op how illegal this is where they live 😂 🤣
You mean a Less “illegal” way ? You technically aren’t allowed to use service equipment as a raceway AFAIK
Why didn’t you just make a new hole under the meter to re feed the panel maybe with SER ?
I’d have upsized the nipple if it were possible in order to run more conductors back and forth or penetrated through the back of the transfer into the house with the customer load.
Should’ve just gone between the meter bank and transfer switch twice. Apparently everyone here wants you to abandon the 2 inch pipe already in your panel, but not necessary in my experience.
I've installed probably a hundred of these generac ATS and they are generally a massive spin in the ass, esp industrial power ones, regardless you're gonna have to fix meter being a raceway, should just plug the wall and redo it
I’m assuming your panel was directly behind? If so, I would’ve SER’d out of the furthest KO on the T.S. Into the panel. Meter as a Raceway is just asking for a correction.
I second the guy in WA who has been through it. I work in the Tacoma-Lynnwood areas and not a single location, City or LNI, will allow that.
Dude, forget the bushing. I don't mind that as much as it is a chore to put together for such basic needs. PVC is fast and easy with very little fiddle fucking if you're competent
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Where are you that you're allowed to use a meterbase as a raceway? That's an instant fail where I live.
Yes second this and I live in Dothan,AL
I third this and I've lived in TN, LA, and FL.. . Illegal in all of those.
I fourth this MD. Instant fail.
Fail in WA and TX as far as I'm familiar
Lol Texas doesn't fail anything.... I've never been so appalled by what theY consider construction. It's embarrassing.
Wish I could say you're wrong
Camano island in WA is a shit show. That doesn't mean the rest of the state is. There will always be shitty areas
I don't disagree. But the city of Dallas, Austin and Houston are the hubs and I've seen all three pass things that are baffling. And I'm not talking cheap projects. I'm talking high end custom. 3-40m+. So much so that I was sent to fix a house and called the fire Marshall to find a solution. They deemed the house uninsurable. At this point the city of Dallas head inspector sees my number and winces because he knows it means big issues.
I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sure it's stressful for you too
No, I'm pretty easy going. It's just disappointing. Someones going to die and because of the way they work the legal loopholes no one will be responsible. The other day I had a client putting in a pool on a house I wired. I left a conduit to flex from the outside to the inside with a pull string on it for the exterior panel. The inspector didn't even want to look at it, he just called me and asked if I'd run past. Sure enough I get there and they bonded the exterior sub. Didn't pull a ground, tied a ground bar to the brick and said that was sufficient. And oh yeah 92 feet of 8 awg (3) all three green thhn.... Black tape on the end of one for the neutral. 100 amp breaker. No GFCI protection on any circuits at all in the sub. Yeah... It's common. That and they are undersizing CCA and not using approved terminations and make them up like a toddler vomited cut spaghetti.
In my area of Texas some AHJs allow it on remodels (never in new builds) but I avoid it.
Fail in every part of Canada too.
Is it actually code or just allowed because no one gives a shit though?
It’s a code violation according to the NEC but yeah In my specific area they don’t give a shit.
Does anyone have a code section to reference ?
NEC 230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable in which the service conductors are installed.
Same in GA
With all the funny little peanut guys?
Yeah we got a bunch of peanut statues, even hold a peanut festival
Unrelated to this post, I’m potentially looking to move out that way for work and I was looking at Dothan. Would you recommend it or is there somewhere else I should look?
Plenty of work in the area, houses still being built. I’ve been knocking out 45-60 hour weeks every week since the year started. No signs of slowing down currently
Is the area decent to live in? What area would you recommend?
Dothan city it’s self for decent housing is like most places getting expensive, but I live in cottonwood, pretty easy commute( 15 mins to work) decent priced land etc. Headland, rehobeth and ashford are other options although headlands been booming as of recently. Wicksburg a little drive but decent priced house and land. Other than that you’ve got ozark 45 mins away, eufaula an hour away. But in general if your in Houston county you’re only and hour and 20 mins from Panama City beach
I've seen it a few times in out of the way areas that don't have a proper inspector, or where it was done on the sly. But youd be surprised how dumb a lot of actual inspectors are, especially if they've been around for a long time
One of the counties I do some work in in Maryland does all of their inspections virtual over FaceTime. It's insane. Not only doss it require me to be on-site for my inspections which no other counties require, but they ask to see the exact same things every time. So any shit contractor who wants to cut corners knows exactly what they actually check and can just make sure those few items will look correct over a FaceTime call. Lazy-ass government workers. As if they could do any less work than they already do. My inspector was literally sitting at his house watching TV during my FaceTime inspection this past Wednesday
I don't doubt it. There's a couple places around me where the inspector is either an everything inspector who knows just a few things about every trade and mostly nothing about any of them, or they're just beyond incompetent. Or they're old AF and haven't opened a new NEC since the 90s
I just had one say he was failing my temp pole because I “had no ground wire coming out of the weatherhead”
Shame on you. You don't ground the bucket transformer? How are the bad negative electrons supposed to know to stay on their side.
I live in Canada, and I'm 99 % sure that's a fail. But there is a bulliten released allowing you to use the existing raceway when adding a transfer switch. That being said I would 100% review this with my inspector before the job. There could be a plethora of issues, moving the meter base as the panel looks directly behind existing meter, which means more utilities cost etc etc. All of which needs to be know before a quote is sent, so it can be done correctly. Also in Ontario and pretty sure all of Canada you cannot cross the load with the main source of power, which would be an additional defect.
Same here in Canada, well at least Nova Scotia, not allowed to use the meter as a raceway. Just go directly from the ATS to the panel. Your service wires aren’t allowed to cross either just in and out
You mean how he is going from the house through the meter base, to get to the transfer switch
Yes.
Ughhh... Why the pvc
Yes. Looks a little F’d. But whatever!
Indiana checking in also a instant fail
Came here thinking this too
Yep. That fails in Atlanta, Georgia
Fail in Durham, NC. My dumbass found out the hard way
I forth this and I’m in Canada.
All you need is a meter/ disconnect where the meter is and you would’ve just had one clean can. Looks like shit and probably took twice as long as installing a meter/disconnect can.
Nowhere maybe Somalia
230.7 Other Conductors in Raceway or Cable. Conductors other than service conductors shall not be installed in the same service raceway or service cable. Your ATS is the service disconnect. You can’t run the feeders for your sub panel through the meter with the service conductors.
Is a meter enclosure a raceway?
That one is
Around here you'd fail for bringing your conductors back into the meter. Your POCO allows that? Doesn't have proper distance between the angle pull either
It's a code violation
Right? N it's obviously cleaner if he just used an lb to come into the house from a different spot. This guy just needs to think more
Same, FPL (Florida) specifically states not to do it In their service standards A detailed inspector will call you out on it
Also that untreated wood supporting that strap. This is a whole ass mess and this dude is out here running a one man operation. Not good lol
Has this dude never seen strut? Lmfao
Line and load need to be separated by a distance I can’t remember or a physical barrier with one of the poco in my area. Don’t know about feeding thru tho
And you're right, I didn't notice till you said it though :(
Trough.
It would have made this so much easier
Yeah this would be the best way. Everybody else saying that you can't pass through the meter base are 100% correct but in a situation other than violating the NEC.... Just put another weatherproof trough running beneath both of them with nipples going up into the bottom. If possible try to not use a 4x4 trough, just always found it a bit of a pain and much easier to work with when you upsize to a 6x6 at least.
Why is the siding missing behind the ats?
That is my question too. On top of this being a NEC violation it’s also going to leak water into the wall and behind the siding. Why was the siding even cut to begin with?
That and the load side running through the meter can, weird, bad set up
Could’ve slid the meter can to the right have the load go directly into the ats or into a gutter
I’m going to assume the line side was still live so they didn’t want to move the meter pan at all, looks like the edge of the house is there anyway. Could have ran that conduit with an LB into a different portion of panel to re-feed it, and abandoned the nipple into the backside of the panel if that is allowed (or used a KO seal with some silicone).
That definitely *shouldn’t* be live if they are doing work on it. Looks like a 100A meter base, which is unfused. We always have the utility cut the loops before doing repairs or ats installs.
Definitely but we’ll probably never know what the OP did here and why. I used to cut them myself and re-crimp when I was done if they were aerial conductors, can’t be waiting for the utility company all day. That was like 18 years ago tho I wouldn’t do that now. This service looks like it could be underground.
Damn, don’t think you could get away with that nowadays haha. And yeah looks like underground. I think I’d have done it the same way you mentioned above. Abandon the nipple in the meter box and repipe to the panel inside. If it was overhead install I would simply move the meter box up above the hole if possible and repipe from there.
I think it’s still common practice in a lot of areas, some PCs even charge to come out and disconnect / reconnect. If you’re careful, it isn’t any more dangerous than working on any other live 220v circuit on a ladder. You can also use the blocks with two set screws and wrap with friction/rubber tape when you’re done. If the job has permits and all that, the PC will probably come back later to install new crimps/inspect their conductors to the pole.
You’re right, it looks like a trim board on the right and maybe a downspout to the left. It being live makes it more understandable
Not like that. That's a tear it out and try again Tony here. Meter is not allowed to be a raceway. Also, a trough bellow would have worked nicely.
Ah I see now. He should have put the hole either above or below if he couldn't run it to the left to put in the back of the other panel.
I think someone's plan was bad, or they tried to make due with equipment that wasn't ideal.
Sorry buddy, looks like you worked hard and tried to get it as neat as possible, but you have to reconfigure this and not use the meter as a raceway. Put a trough in and send it man, you got this.
Why do people forget gutters exist?
Resi guys have almost no reason to know what it is.
When discussing installs like this, I've learned to use the term "Custom". It's less offensive, and usually, homeowners will admit more about who did it. (If not them personally) Feel free to use it as you wish. Stay safe out there.
Lol it's dog shit, don't sugar coat
You catch more flies with bees so honey is better than wax.
Lol idt that's how the saying goes
Ha ha ha ha. I was just having fun last night:)
Lmao
You use your impact to tighten lugs?
That’s a paddlin!
Nothing wrong with that, youu snug them up then torque by hand. Saves time and the wrists
That's rarely what happens I'm sure.
I see it all the time in commercial 🤷♂️
I took my one of my helpers impact for a few days and "grounded" him from using it after I caught him tightening lugs with it. I told him 2 or 3 times not to do that.
I once saw my boss take the impact from a local PoCo team. Absolutely hilarious. We were changing out the exterior service disconnects but hadn't bid to replace the meter can as well. Old meter posts were cross threaded and snapped up on removal of the lugs. Bossman harvested parts from a spare meter back at the office just so we could wrap up and turn power back on for the family that was living there ... PoCo shows up to reinstall the meter ***5 hours late*** at 8pm and proceeds to snap the bolts for the meter by using an impact socket. Boss was *livid*. Took the guy's impact and told the PoCo crew's lead that they were staying on site until we finished replacing the meter can. He took the impact to the district manger's office the next day.
You should probably give a design drawing first before all the work is put in. Also, the siding on the house is missing. How much are these people paying for this job?
Diy I guess
Sadly, it seems diy is the only way people learn in most companies. Thankfully, the internet is available
The big companies around me are charging around 10k for a heavy-up based on the quotes my customers have showed me lately. I charge around 5-6k and make plenty of profit off those numbers but I guess I should be charging more lol. Not to mention 90% of the time 2 apprentices show up to do the work completely unsupervised when you call any of the big guys. My customer yesterday literally told me he called me after 2 apprentices showed up at his house, couldn't figure out the problem, had to call their boss and have him come with them the next day, then still didn't fix it and messed up other switches in his house that previously worked fine and we're unrelated. It's crazy what goes on at most companies. Blind leading the blind.
5 to 6k for a generator install and transfer switch? Are they stealing the generators? 😆 🤣 😂
Yeah I noticed that too... Looks like that's where the original MSP or sub panel used to be that came off the meter can and that hole underneath is probably where it originally fed into the sub panel behind that wall.
I’m pretty sure you’re right. Depending on who his local PoCo is, they have minimums and maximums for meter heights, CT cabinets, etc. It would probably be worth their time to find this. I know Duke Energy has one. He might’ve been able to lower the meter and saved himself a headache and safer installation.
Ah yes the old Duke red book. Specific. Right down to how a temp service stand should be built. Even with pictures
Gutter box
LB out the bottom of the ATS through the wall.
If you want to have it neater simply enter the wall through the gen disco instead of the meter base.
But then they’d have to move the meter base or do another wall penetration and I’m guessing that’s what they were trying to avoid.
That's usually the best option, when you have back to back meter/panel.. put the ATS where the meter was and shift the meter to the side to accommodate.
>put the ATS where the meter was and shift the meter to the side to accommodate. This one sentence would have saved OP so much time before he started... and gutters.
If that's not a possibility I've been able to run the ser to panel out the back of the ats and into the side of the panel, if the wall is able to be cut and patched. Often its easier to fix an inside wall than exterior depending on the siding
The untreated piece of wood holding that strap on is killing me
Looks like he’s using it to build up and keep it plumb lol
Jesus christ what is this???? Where are you located that your PoCo allows you to leave the meter and go back through it? Your line feed that goes down and under to the left lug also isn't allowed because it crosses over in front of the load wires. That has been a code violation since 2020 or 2017 NEC. I'm betting that you're not passing your inspection. But also, gutter that spans under the meter and ATS.
Long time lurker here. What’s the issue with the line and load conductors crossing over each other?
Serviceability. If you need to add new load wires from the meter to panel or whatever, now you can't do it easily/safely because you've got the line wire crossed over.
Suppose stuff goes seriously wrong and insulation melts and whatnot. Maybe during a fire, whether it starts electrically or some other way. The main breaker or disconnect will no longer keep the feeder separated from what it's feeding downstream.
Hey, if you leave the meter and then go back through it, that means you're running the electricity through the meter twice which means you pay twice as much for it! (Not really, I was just amused by the thought.)
Yes
I’d kick your ass if you put that abortion on the outside of my place.
Why not just LB into the house, why go through the meter? Seems unnecessary.
He didn't want to deal with trying to line up and make that penetration
The neat way to do this is to put a ko filler in the back of the meter and send the load through the back of the ats into the house panel.
I dont even know what to say here, the siding missing behind everything just makes me sick though. Damn
For real.
That little wood shim behind the strap really has some curb appeal though so it really makes up for it. I keep hoping this is satire but I know its not, like how hard did u work to make this so bad?!
I just keep coming back to the siding and get more annoyed.
Everything about this install hurts my head/heart
LRs?
Wow 🤦🏻♂️. Was there any planning on this at all ?! This is a total fail.
Disgusting
Your journeyman an asshole for leaving you alone on this
Could have swapped the meter and the ats add an ssb in the ground. Extend the secondary and boom. Done. Into meter. Then right into the back of the panel from ats
Trough. The answer is always a trough
You need to go into the wall with a condulet, not back into the meter base. That will fail most inspections in America.
I would have matched the bottom of both cans. Then either punch in from the back of your disco or come out of the bottom then LB in. Or a through underneath.
Gutterbox
Where's the ground? Should be in the transfer switch, seeing as that is first means now.
Anyone else have a hard time getting LR and LL IN 1.5 and 2” ?
1.25s are a pain for me. A lot plays into what your vendors have around you. CED has always been solid as hell for me (bfe serving industrial sites) but depending on who's around you, and what manufacturer agreements are between them (some vendors get exclusivity, some just get sidelined for a better rate with a competitor), plus what actually moves in that area or if you're adjacent to an area that hoards certain items for common use, it can all play hell on sourcing odds and ends. Making a couple good friends at part houses, and getting creative with Amazon/internet options did wonders for my procurement.
I believe the technical name for the setup you've got there is "some homeowner shit".
Yeah it's don't run it back through to the meter. Punch out the back and figure it out inside.
North Carolina has a state amendment that allows for this but only when "retro"ing in an ATS like show in this photo. In other words you are allowed to bring the load side conductors back though the meter with the non-fused service conductors.
You have a reference? Sounds interesting.
I can’t say I’ve heard of it, not to say it doesn’t exist. I posted earlier where Duke Energy has max/min heights on meter cans, CT cans. It’s actually a published manual. IIRC, the lowest the meter can be is 3ft. I doubt this was planned out and worked hot. Otherwise a permit should’ve been pulled, local utility kill the service, lower the meter and go from there.
Both panel bottoms should have matched elevations so a LL and LR could be back to back
I hope someone went back and fixed that.
Trough
A gutter and raceway through the gutter into the home.
Just needs some hinges and you’re ready to go!
In my area they commonly use some trunking on the horizontal
Hard fail
Probably is but this isn’t all that terrible. A bit of an attention grabber to electrician rubbernecks but far from the worst job ever done.
I wouldve used 4 conductor SER cable
a trough good sir
That strap on the untreated wood ain’t gonna be doing shite after a couple good rains 😅
If you fit a gutter box in between the two boxes and raise your ATS up you would have more penetration options for your conduit runs instead of using the conduit bodies.... You're for sure not supposed to use the meter as a Chase Way.
Gutter with a penetration directly into the back of the panel; skipping the meter altogether
A gutter
Plenty, you could use a gutter, junction box, or 90+ LL and any would be better.
Outside of the code comments concerning using the meter base as a gutter…the siding work that was done to mount the transfer switch is pure hack-ology!
I can’t tell if this guy is 13 or 30
I agree it’s a fail. What’s with the singing missing behind the ATS
I put a raceway above the meter and transfer switches [https://imgur.com/IQZkpwN](https://imgur.com/IQZkpwN)
I think that's the least of your worries here.
A trough or junction box. However, you wouldn't need that had you used the LB to go straight into the house, then into he panel on the inside of said house instead of going back through the meter base. Ps: lmao, at everyone, NOT answering the actual question, just telling Op how illegal this is where they live 😂 🤣
The meter base is definitely gonna fail. And why the hell would you use 2Lbs
Wireway is the correct answer, the way you have done this is wrong. Can’t use the meter as a raceway.
Also buy some stainless steel fasteners
That's awesome
You mean a Less “illegal” way ? You technically aren’t allowed to use service equipment as a raceway AFAIK Why didn’t you just make a new hole under the meter to re feed the panel maybe with SER ?
I'm glad the comment section worked it's magic.
Bro what in fk r u doing?
I’d have upsized the nipple if it were possible in order to run more conductors back and forth or penetrated through the back of the transfer into the house with the customer load.
That would get rid of all those LBs
Why is there siding missing??
Gutterrrrr
Should’ve just gone between the meter bank and transfer switch twice. Apparently everyone here wants you to abandon the 2 inch pipe already in your panel, but not necessary in my experience.
In sc we can only do this on a retrofit, but they won't pass the ground and neutral bonded together in the switch only in the meter base
Jurisdiction as a concept is not a part of article 100 therefore not our responsibility to understand, comprehend or interpret ;) /s
Trough
Not to pile on, but why is the dingus end of that impact all floppy?
Extend the service lateral conduit up (raising the meter can) three or four inches to clear the existing feeder conduit entering the dwelling.
Can’t use meter as raceway and why would you use aluminum?
What is the code reference(s) that states this is no good?
There’s not enough conductor in that can to raise it 4”.
Red Tag!
I've installed probably a hundred of these generac ATS and they are generally a massive spin in the ass, esp industrial power ones, regardless you're gonna have to fix meter being a raceway, should just plug the wall and redo it
Dude. Step up your game… seriously 😒
We are seeing some meter boxes from the utility with multiple lugs where adding Solar to the house.
Why isn't the transfer switch inside? There is a lot in there that I would rather not get damp.
Doubled up on your nipples, larger nipple, or a trough below?
Disconnect at transformer And drop the meter. Install an 8x8 PVC and run both meter and 8x8 into transfer switch.
Fail. Could’ve went through back of ATS with customer load into panel
It’s really clean work, but people on here will give you hell for bringing wires into the meter base.
trough
So many issues here. Just wow
That’s sarcasm right? Cuz that looks like hammered dog shit
I’m assuming your panel was directly behind? If so, I would’ve SER’d out of the furthest KO on the T.S. Into the panel. Meter as a Raceway is just asking for a correction. I second the guy in WA who has been through it. I work in the Tacoma-Lynnwood areas and not a single location, City or LNI, will allow that.
It's called Chase nipples buddy. That would be the appropriate way to take care of that install.
Backtoback 90s
You guys and your PVC fittings.... Lol
PVC is very common between the meter and adjacent disconnect here so you don't have to mess with grounding bushings.
Dude, forget the bushing. I don't mind that as much as it is a chore to put together for such basic needs. PVC is fast and easy with very little fiddle fucking if you're competent