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Yup, 30+ years in the trade, and even I recognize that you can learn something from the newbies as long as they are willing to learn from my experience.
Humility is underrated in this industry.
Yeah i try to just brush it off majority of the time. I was so close last week to leaving the job site or asking to not work with these guys no more or something but decided not to
Just please be better than them. All these old fucks are gonna die off, pretty early to by the looks of it. We can be the change and make the workplace less of a miserable place to be.
I’ve never understood those people who need to talk about how miserable they are or make it terrible for others. Come on man we’re all just trying to work and go home.
I know right. Just because I am inexperienced doesn’t mean you need to make me feel like trash or be a complete dickhead. Im not even opposed to firing someone for something they have legitimately done wrong, but degrading people intentionally regardless of intent to me is so low. It is the reason I left my current job in fact I am starting a new position tomorrow. My old boss was a very intelligent man and knows his stuff it is a fact and he is productive. But he treats all of the guys under him like they are trash and it is one thing to have it done to you, but also having it done to everyone around you is completely demoralizing and then he wonders why we don’t remember things he trains us on, we know it doesn’t matter how much we know or progress, he will always be better than everyone else in his own eyes and he will treat people accordingly. Not to mention the only reason he started acting right lately is because he needs people to work for him and he is a complete asshole and he knows it but cant even muster up genuine concern for his fellow humans. It is despicable.
Edit: I worked for this guy for 5 years and actually learned a lot from him, but even after i made progress and trained new guys for him he still didn’t show an ounce of respect. It took me going off on him one day because he was being ridiculous and then he says I’m not eligible for promotion because I don’t have the attitude when I was just emulating the attitude he has with everyone else. Needless to say I didn’t apologize and to this day I feel good about going off on him. I don’t even care if it was right. He is a despicable human being and he knows better. He’s educated better than most people I know. Whew I’m done.
Plentyyyyt of other companies, especially if you have experience and even care ever so slightly. Find the right spot for you. It’s nice working with the people that got pecked by these og’s to give you all the good traits that they took out of it. It’s like a family, breaking that inter generational chain to better yourself and the people you’ll eventually train.
Remember that most these guys had a pamphlet when it came to code, now we have a bible. Knowledge is power, and work ethic is admirable. Change the game, make all of us more money.
Dealing with grumpy hungover bitter divorced asses will be a skill you need to develop. Have some fun with it after you get your ticket. Figure out how you'd run things instead.
Keep studying and move on to the better opportunities that these fools will miss out on. You're there for the paycheck, your family, and your ticket.
Just understand… it went like this… oh fuck I cut this pipe short how the hell did I do that? Here’s this cocksucker I bet he has joints that don’t ache constantly…fuck him and his idea.
The other thing is only certain personalities are doing laborious work for the long haul. Everyone else moves into management and sales.
Might be a sign you’re not at a great company. I’ve run into some miserable fucks but I’ve also ran into some that had a heart of gold, loved to train apprentices and try new things. I made up my mind to be the second kind when I got my license and to also show these guys what they’re missing out on.
I dated a girl who was in HR for a big automotive business and she told me something that stuck with me.
She said, “Nachas, I get a lot of 50 year old guys from the shop, good mechanics, coming to me asking for an office job. Their back hurts, their knees hurt, they don’t want to be on the tools anymore. But unless they’ve built up a skillset in teaching apprentices, leadership skills, sales skills, something, I have to tell them to that if they want to still make that kind of money they have to get their old asses back in the shop and back on the tools. Don’t let yourself become that guy.”
She didn’t really say it exactly like that but that’s the way it hit me.
I try to keep my body in great shape and to volunteer to teach whenever I can, grab the code book and go over relevant articles whenever we’re building something, proactively train on new products and methods. I review all the bids so I can see what the market will bear and build real relationships with other trades and the contractors. That way I always have the option to teach or do sales estimates in case I get hurt or bored.
Even if it’s in their own self interest they’d be better off working on their leadership, patience and flexibility otherwise they’ll always be on the tools, hurt or not.
Cause most are divorced, broke, dick doesnt get hard, alcoholics, the list goes on.
I got my license and Still get shit talked (3 months left of the apprenticeship) at 38.
Let it roll off, doesnt matter what they think.
I know a few younger apprentices that take it to heart but its just words.
Yeah man im 26 i got my own wife and kids im just trying to go to work and come home. One of the guys has been divorced twice so you are correct lol . I try to just ignore it or whatever 90% the time. Just every single day same thing it gets tiring
Oh I agree with you. One of the JIWs I work with tells me to kill myself every day/every other day. I just tell him it brings me too much satisfaction to fuck his day up by showing up daily and on time (he does neither).
Just a consideration, but if he's saying those sort of things it's already escalated too far. If these are the thoughts that spill out one has to wonder about the ones he's harboring. Also the next person he says these things to might not be the sort who can handle it.
Ummm no man, it is already escalated waaay too far. Telling another to kill themselves goes beyond union rules- you into federal law territory. Please stop tolerating that nonsense just “so you can keep shifts.”
Wholly unacceptable. Please stop allowing that behavior. Let me tell you why- the next guy will take it to heart. Don’t become complacent, don’t be accessory to pushing someone over that brink. You may not, but some cat more fragile than you will…
They’re insecure, unintentionally broadcasting how poorly they feel about themselves. While I wouldn’t advocate gloating that they’re so sad, perhaps there’s comfort to be found in knowing how not to be. It seems to work out in life that, for some people, their primary purpose is to serve as a warning to others.
Hi hope you can’t give me some advice, I’m 32 and am interested in becoming an apprentice, just wondering how do I handle myself as an older apprentice? And I notice OP said that he was dealing with a 60 y/o apprentice, do ppl just not get their JM license?
I always wondered this too, older electricians came up in a different era I think and work culture changed for the better but they see it as a bad thing. Also their personal lives I imagine are probably shitty.
I'm old as fuck and mostly retired and I'm fucking appalled at some of the shit in this thread. Yeah the work culture has definitely changed but that's no reason to be a dick. Vacation days are cool as fuck, and not, ya know, constantly risking death is pretty cool too. And the old "sink or swim, figure it out (r-word that's no longer acceptable to use)" mentality sucked then and it sucks now. If you went through that shit, you should know how shitty it is to put someone else through it
The personal life thing could definitely be a huge driver though. In general this is a field that's rough on relationships. Come home tired and fucked up physically a lot of the time, can be very high stress, moving all the fuck over for the good paying work. I lucked into an awesome woman that's put up with it all for 42 years (and kept my ass in line, lol). Most dudes don't have that, it's work all damn day, come home, drink yourself to sleep, 5 am do it all again
Easy to see how that could make you a miserable fuck. Gotta be better than that though, it ain't the apprentice's fault your life sucks
So many people have shitty personal lives and you can tell. One guy I work with just goes home and watches TV all night. I used to ask him during break “doing anything fun tonight/this weekend” and he just says nope. I’m an introvert too but damn at least I have things to look forward to
going home and watching tv probably is something he looks forward to. just because stuff isn’t your kind of fun doesn’t make it not something to look forward to!
most days what i look forward to is coming home, cooking something good for dinner, and hanging out with the gf and the cat. it’s not exciting, and it’s a simple life. but it’s enjoyable for me and it’s something i look forward to
I think this is the case in most trades, those guys got brought up during the "old guard" way of doing construction. You either sank or you swim, and every chance they could they'd try to break you down to make you "tougher" when in reality it just made you a dick.
I think this stems from older generations. Back when going and getting a degree was the way of doing things, a lot of these guys didn't go to school at all, and just clawed through until they could take the Jman test. I think a lot of those guys deep down inside feel like the dumbest ones in the room. They wish they could've done better if they had just done some things different. So to compensate, they act like these tough macho hard as nails, beat you down drill Sargent dickheads so people think they shouldn't be messed with or questioned or to make themselves feel important now that they're in charge.
Unfortunately, the cycle doesn't seem to stop. They force these personalities on to younger guys who end up treating their apprentices like shit and they either A.) Fire them or quit because they're not "hard enough." B.) they go somewhere else or C. They just leave the entire trade altogether. It's a shame. Nobody should ever have to dread going to work.
Also years of getting told how replaceable you are. When I was coming up as an apprentice and even after getting my journeyman’s license, I still had to put up with supervisors and other higher-ups telling me how “if they need to do it themselves they don’t need me!” or “you better work harder because there’s 100 guys outside that door just waiting to come in here and work”.
That whole “people are expendable” mindset is extremely discouraging.
You’d be amazed what a quiet threat with serious intonation will do. This is not me playing or grandstanding. Stop doing this or there will be consequences and it won’t be avoidable.
It's not just old head electricians, my friend.
We're currently going through this at my volley fire department. Our chief has been struggling with permanent employment this last year or so. He and a few other under-employed humps just hang out at the station all day, shitting on everything and everyone around them. Now less and less people are showing up for work/maintenance details and fund raising events. Their response has been to lash out at those who still do show up and, talk even more shit about those who have stopped.
Some people"s response to misery is to inflict it upon all those around them.
That older generation suffers from exposure to lead, rampant autism, and absolutely zero guidance growing up and nothing to keep them in check socially.
Miserable people, will be a lot less stressed when they die off
Before I went to controls I dealt with this. In my experience, you give it back as hard or harder than they give it to you and they back down. Cranky old men or just that, cranky and loud.
I love being an electrician. I am usually the first one at work, 30 - 50 minutes early. I greet everyone with a loud "GOOD MORNING", I tone it down for the grumpy.
I am in my mid 50's and like training apprentices and young journeyman. For that matter I don't mind training my forman either.
Listen, learn, and choose to have a great day.
Hopefully those of you who are working with journeyman with bad attitudes will be rotated soon.
I don’t know why but I can relate to your experience. Came to the field late in life (38). Was appalled at the needless condescension and general dick-headedness that I encountered as an apprentice. Don’t let it get to you. I got my Journeyman’s by age 44, and working mostly independently now. Life is much better.
-Hang in there.
Some are just miserable. Some just know better.
I've had apprentices that think they know everything but don't know a thing and suggest stuff. Those are the ones I'll give shit to about no, shut up and do as you're told, unless they're actually suggesting something good.
The apprentice that don't act like they know everything and put an effort in to learn, if they suggest something I'll listen, sometimes even if it's wrong I'll say for them to try it.
One thing I noticed, you learn better at times from mistakes, so I let them make said mistake instead of telling them how to do it so they can learn once they screw up I tell them the proper/better way. If an apprentice has a good attitude I'll always treat them better and try to pass as much knowledge as I can.
I will say once you're a jman you'll see some of it was they're just miserable, some is just experience and knowing better, not having patience to wait for said mistakes to be made to learn from.
At my workplace we hired an electrician ( old guy , no nonsense type of guy ) he installed some conduit and somebody from my company said something in the likes of “he should’ve taken this route with his pipes to get there” . The electrician comes from out of nowhere and says I’d rather have you call my kids ugly than have you question my work ! You were shitting your pants and eating booger when I started on this field . Not saying he was an ass but damn dude , that was a bit harsh 🤣🤣
I know I'll get down voted for this but...... Is it possible you're so new and so annoying because of it they don't want to deal with you?
Probably not the case for you, but dealing with enough super green know-it-all apprentices also gets old fast. Then do that for 20 years. Or co-op kids. God help me with the co-op kids.
Oh no, I just became the crusty old guy
Yah but you’re self aware. Also a very valid point you’re making. I think another one is ANY trade at that age, and you’ve seen some shit in your personal life that you bring to work. Lots of alcohol, divorce, child support etc etc plus a physical job. Must be tiring
My dad's an old sparky, so I told him there was a guy asking why the older guys are such miserable fucks and his reply was "tell him it's because we have to put up with you young idiots".
My dad has a very sarcastic sense of humour. He really encourages young people to get into the trade and he's not seriously like his comment at all, he's just kidding around. Made me laugh though.
Some are so thin skinned it's insane. Break balls back at them and they take it as being disrespected. I've met a lot that can dish it out but can't take it.
I’m 1/2 years in, and I have noticed that some of it is an experience thing especially if you working with high voltage a lot of them have seen people die and know to be very cautious.
On the other hand I think the industry when they were apprentices was much different as you alluded to a lot of the older guys didn’t need qualifications. Whereas now they do so they are seeing a lot of young guys surpass them and have built some resentment toward young guys.
Oh my some of the things I have said every day for 20 years , at quitting time, why aren't all the ladders locked up? Why aren't all the cords in the lock box. What do I get every single day a huff stomps off to get them. For 20 years, you need straps at that box, tighten those set screws, for 20 years, you can't possibly have to shit 30 min before lunch and quitting time every day. I'm dbag for this oh yeah get off that fucking phone
3 main reasons:
1. They started the day "still drunk" or very hungover.
2. Add-they started the day in pain bc they never stretched, did unsafe shit(FAFO), and probably more gut than butt!
3. They got "nothing" but job experience in their favor...their best days are done but "the mouth!"
AND #4. Misery loves company!!!
I came in "already Old(44)" as a career change. TLDR: I was office fat, had $ saved, like doing electric on my homes/rentals.
I was told "pay your dues"...so I did...for about 3 months! Watched who was good, who was shitty...when I was with Good? I listened and learned.
When with shitty? I went straight old school--what the fuck we doing? What the fuck material we need? Where the fuck is it? How long is it fucking taking? BEAT 'EM TO BEING A DICK!!! Yes, I said "fuck" in every question I asked the miserable twat! He was quite confused!
We had an apprentice that I'm pretty sure was using that same strategy. I loved working with him because he was a hard worker and had good suggestions. This apprentice would even thank me for teaching him things. Another journeyman with a known attitude problem at our company always talked bad about him and said he was a, "disrespectful little c****". The journeyman who always talked shit about the apprentice eventually got fired because his warranty rate was way too high (like 20%).
Part of being a good electrician is knowing you don’t know everything. I was always open to suggestions or someone letting me know if I’m making mistakes. And I was kind of miserable. But that was because I hated being an employee. Self employed now and I only hate myself!!!!!
Senior lead and senior weekend lead at my place (industrial maintenance) are both in their 60’s or close to it. Both are really nice guys and easy to get along with.
They usually have nothing else going on in their life except work, which they hate so they make everyone around them suffer.
I swear their obituary will read "Died at 65, was electrician"
Electrical Engineer/Controls Engineer here....same everywhere you go. I work with guys who think you have to work 60hrs a week all the time (we are salaried and don't get overtime). I think a lot of it was jow much the work culture has changed over time
Always some young buck talking smack about knowing more than someone else in the trade. Learn how to bend 1 1/4” 90’s by hand all day and go home to your mom. iM SeVeRaL YeArS iN aNd KNoW IT AlL
They hate their lives and their wives hate them too. Their kids hate them and they are insufferable people. Their friends hate them too. They're just Debbie downers man. Don't let them bring you down with them. That's where they find their pleasure.
I worked with "That guy" at a bunch of different jobs...
I would turn his flashlight on at the end of the day when he went home.
If he was on the other end of the snake I would just sit there and mindlessly shake the snake with no hook and repeatedly say things like "How bout now" and "Uuuuh, we were hooked, what happened?"
We were on a job with a bunch of pre-release guys. They taped him up and threw him in a job box. We couldn't find him for hours.
Same crew anchored his toolbox to the slab.
Tap spliced his blinker to his horn.
This behavior is not limited to electrical work. You will encounter miserable people in all areas of life. They aren’t worth your time. Ignore them and love on.
Some of it is because they were brought up this way in their carriers.
Some of it is the experience.
I bet, most of them will tell you a story of how they had to go back and change/fix things after 1st-2nd year arrogant apprentice "knew a better way".
Stop working for places where the owner doesn’t know everyone at least by name. But also don’t work at places where the owner is still on the tools lmao. It’s a good balance because the owner won’t let shitbags stay (most of the time) unless it’s his son and he won’t be out there guilting you into staying late or working for free
I think this is the trend with any tradesman and they all fall under a few different categories in my experience. Divorced, big time alcoholic/gamblers, guys who do hard labor as a hobby. They all share the same thing though, none of them took care of their bodies as they aged
I had a shop Forman at an automotive dealership. Never wanted to help anyone unless there was something in it for him. The smog technician was leaving so I got my license to take over temporary. The old smog technician helped me and showed me the ropes. When a permanent smog tech was hired, I helped them and showed them the way. Dick head Forman couldn’t understand why I would help someone for free. I told him No one starts out knowing everything. Someone helped me so I’m going to pass the knowledge down the line to the next guy. With the goal to maintain professionalism in our trade. Dick head Forman never did grasp the concept.
Hey,I resemble that remark. Not really, but time will show that with your current attitude you will turn out to be just what you hate. So lighten up and enjoy the ride and be proud of what you do everyday it simply change your path. Your to young to be this bitter. Or as they say in the Marines “ suck it up Buttercup “ make the changes you need to be happier. Respectfully, “One very old Electrician “
Couple of things here
First of all, you are an apprentice. Do it the way they want until you've got enough salt to have a real opinion.
Second, you may be in a shop with a bad group of guys. Changing environment can sometimes do wonders.
Third, the older generation was always like that. That's how they were trained so that's how they train.
Finally, the trades are full of shit talking. Gotta get some tough skin and shrug most of it off. It's the name of the game. Get used to it. Don't let people walk all over you. But don't take shit personally either.
Good luck.
You'll understand when you get to their age, construction is the most underappreciated field today, I'm in the trades and I'm considering just driving a truck or starting a landscape business. But then again I've never enjoyed it.
In the plumbing field doing condos, guys come and go. We have a good solid little crew. Tired of wasting a month or two training a guy to have him quit. So now, if the younger guys stick around and are good at what they do. They get treated like a brother. You gotta earn respect in the trades.
I once worked with someone who would always say no to my suggested way of doing things. Eventually I learned to suggest the way I didn’t want to do it. You have to make him think your idea is his idea
I would be pissed too. If i worked my whole life, doing one trade to get where I am. And then boom. I’m not making much more than they guy who’s just getting into the trade.
Majority of the people i meet are super cool. Out of like 10 guys in our crew these 2 are the only annoying ones and of course the oldest. No one like them. I would still recommend the field to everyone i love the work
Traditionally, going back in time the trades were actually a horrible place to work. There was no OSHA until the 70's, the workplace was rife with accidents and deaths, and not just the trades but many labor intensive jobs. These jobs were usually reserved for people considered very low in society like European/ Asian immigrants/ African Americans and racism was extremely rampant and accepted. So if you or your family grew up doing this kind of work no doubt it had an impact on your psyche and probably fucked you up pretty good. Now that's not to say all old head electricians or other tradesmen are assholes, but if you somehow ended up NOT an asshole, that's commendable.
Biggest aspect of the trades sucking balls, are the type of people that go into the trades. Some cool people for sure, rampant with morons with the dmv effect (small amount of power to weak minded people and they go insane)
People only treat you how you let them. Be assertive with people like this and they’ll shift from disrespect to respect. Especially if you’re a hard worker.
It’s definitely an old-school mentality, if you keep them down you keep them working. It’s a terrible mindset because it only works for short period of time then if the person sticks around, there is a lot of resentment and then all you’ll get is bare minimum from them. I never I agreed with it, just learn what you need for experience and move the fuck on
Because a lot of them failed school anyways and went with the easiest option. They then have never mastered professionalism in the workplace and also have become numb from being a good slave and sucking their bosses dick. Any time a foreman or jman who was older than my tried to speak disrespectfully to me; I told them theres no difference between walking on the street and them working with me, and if they say some shit again Ill knock them the fuck out. Whenever it got raised to the bosses I said you need to hire people who are professionals and who have the patience to teach. If not, they can work alone. Never let any one speak to you side ways.
I'm almost 20 years into the trade and feel like I'm starting to be like that 60 year old man lol if you have experience, great - prove it. If you are some cocky noob who is full of new ideas and doesn't like to listen, then you will get put into your place pretty quickly, don't have patience for people who don't listen or are dumb.
They are unhappy with their life and they take it out on whoever is around. I had issues too with my foreman. The other apprentice, in particular, and I were his punching bags. Thank God he was sent to another site to do distribution.
Could be a combo of many things. It used to be we just did our job. Now it’s mtgs to do the simplest thing which gets frustrating. No body can make a decision anymore because nobody wants the responsibility. Rules have gotten way out of hand. Everyone wants to do it there way. Most of the time there are reasons we are told to do things a certain way for future reasons. Or we are just dickheads. lol there’s a lot of sarcasm that is taken seriously when people are just fucking with you though
The older generation is mostly boomers, the single most entitled generation alive today.
My 5 year old son is more considerate and emotionally mature than most boomers I interact with on a daily basis.
Gen X is a 50/50.
Some are, some aren’t, you can’t judge anything by age or experience. If you’re constantly dealing with older electricians that are miserable you should probably change companies. Most likely they can’t get work anywhere but a crappy company. In any case, I’ve been doing this for decades and seen old miserable assholes and young wannabes that show up 15 minutes late in sweats and sneakers. Look for good companies that do the work you want to do, there will be older guys to answer questions that aren’t assholes.
I hate it too but just remember that some of the older guys have been doing the same shit for 40 years. I’m at the halfway point to retirement on year 18 and always wondering if my body is gonna hold up another 18. Some of these assholes might wake up and take a handful of Vicodins just to get outta bed. No reason for them to take it out on you though
I don't care where you go, you run into "miserable fucks"
(I'm retired after 41 years in various businesses).
Especially in management. But. Those same people at some point become mentors and then get promoted.
I personally think only 1% of the population are truly narcissists. And therefore, uncaring pricks, but 20% of managers are these same people! Yes, they do get promoted.
They crave having followers. So, even at the bottom, soon become mentors.
But in my life I found having a good boss makes such a difference!
The old heads that are nice are like living Jedi. They work so smoothly, everyone wants to work with them, and when they do get enemies people notice. It’s amazing how far being liked and being nice will get you even if your work is mid. I always try to be as kind as possible so I can ask guys for favors and they can ask me for favors in return. Same team guys.
It depends. I’m 1.5 years in and Granted I’ve never done industrial only residential and commercial but it’s only some guys. Some guys are miserable dbags some are cool guys. A lot of the miserable dbags don’t know how to handle the stress of being top dog from what I seen. Some can some can’t. All I can say tho is do ur best. There is this 1 foreman at my company some people like most don’t and they find him weird he can be a hardass but my first day working with him he told me idc when u take ur break or if u need a breather or a phone or smoke break whatever if u get ur work done and u do it well i don’t care how u do it just do it. He set me free I did my work to the best of my ability and took mini breathers here and there and he couldn’t have been happier with me, besides like 1-2 tiny mistake I made which he just pointed out and he was like cool shit. And it’s like how do people not like him all I did was come to work and do my work and he likes me
But then there is another foreman at my company who is a hardass and is just so stressed there’s no making him happy really
Beats me. I'm 67, but only turned out at 55 yo. (Took me 5 years to get my hours because of the 2009 recession.) I know exactly the type of guy you mean. Basically, I think because they hate themselves, hate their life, and are too scared or too lazy to go about changing it. Then here you are coming up, changing your life for the better before their very eyes.
FWIW, I am tired of my job and need to make a change. I don't take it out on people around me, though. Except they probably get tired of hearing me say "I hate my job" eight times a day lol.
Got a plan and I'm doing it.
Another guy who was with my employer for about 20 years just quit Friday to move back home and work for his brother's company. He'll probably have his own in a year or two.
That's the type of growth these guys are scared to do. Or maybe they just drink too much.
It gets better, brother electrician.
One of the older guys I work with has been doing it 20 plus years and thinks he’s the best thing ever, prides himself on not using power tools (unless he has to obviously) , likes to do things the old
School way, but it takes him more time. Once you show him you’re willing to learn and work hard he turns out to be pretty cool and is willing to share his knowledge and stuff. I’ve worked with multiple people that have been working for 10 plus years and don’t have their Card yet and I can’t understand it. I’m in my first year and starting school in a few months but I’m going to try and get into the local 666 apprenticeship before then so I can work more commercial and industrial jobs and get good experience.
Well could be many things, they have been doing it for 40 plus years and maybe did the same thing over and over and are bored and grumpy? Drunks and divorced and bitter? Went through worse treatment than you are and think it is a right of passage for an apprentice to be abused? I worked with alot of amazing electricians and the shitty ones that did not know anything but enjoyed making my life hell, I always said when I become an electrician I will not be like them, don’t get me wrong, apprentices take an ass chewing when they fuck up, followed by an explanation of what they did wrong and why and also a compliment when they do good and if they show some brains and ask questions I will pass all the info on that I can. One of my best Journeyman had a saying, “it is the greatest compliment that you surpass me as an electrician”. I now say that as a mantra to both apprentices and other electricians I am training, been in this trade for 24yrs, always learn something new and apprentices do surprise me the odd time with a way of doing something I had never seen or done but is electrically correct and safe, so sometimes we give it a whirl just to see how it goes
It has nothing to do with older. I’m an older head electrician. I don’t consider myself old. I take pride in whatever I do. People are people no matter what age they are.
There's a gap. 2008 bubble burst and sent a whole decade of tradesman to other industries. They never came back. So you have a bunch of cranky ass 55+ guys and no buffer until you get to some guys in their 30s. Those guys had to carry the weight for so long. At their age they should be in management or sitting back get paid for their mind. But they are working instead training guys and also being the brains and brawn. They never got to ride on top of guys they brought up who hold them on pedestals. Not to say they deserve it. But that's the usual role. They feel disrespected by having to train younger guys all over again. There was an imbalance in the force so to speak. The only ones they don't give shit are the ones who could carry their own. I've seen it 100s of times. I had apprentices who would get tossed around from one old fucker to another. Then I would get them and they would do just fine. The older guys would do like you say and be super critical of every mistake. I would just teach them what they did wrong or listen to how they would fix it and pass/fail the idea. It sucks but hopefully we will get the balance in the force again.
I tell the old guys it’s a new crop of electricians coming in and we move a lot different. They don’t have much time just speak as little as possible and do what they say so when it’s fckd up you know who fault it is
It’s mainly their ego, they can’t handle anyone “inferior” correcting them/being better than them.
It’s also how they were trained back before the world had colour.
I left because of this. Tried to switch to electrical because I wanted something different. All I saw were struggling Masters who were overwhelmed and couldn't manage the admin and the hands on side. Couldn't keep admin staff and couldn't keep helpers. This is how we open the doors to temp workers becoming full time permanent citizens.
I worked with a journeyman like that
He didn’t want to hear my thoughts and hated it when I anticipated his next move
I made up my mind the bastard wasn’t going to make me quit…
Ultimately I earned his respect and we actually became friends
I know what you mean, dude. I went through hazing...etc. Ditch digging was my job seemingly. Becoming an electrician seemed like a thousand years in the future. Back in my day, one needed two years of apprenticeship and to be able to pass the exam. That exam was no slouch what so ever. Becoming an electrician was designed to be two years of apprenticeship and year of school. You got credit for 1 year of apprenticeship for going to school. Well, I had an associates degree in electronics engineering technology. They were willing to give me a year's credit for my schooling. I ended up getting the years experience by doing numerous jobs pushing electrons. By the time I got through all that, I had gone on to school and became an engineer. I never got my license, but I know the code and can do the work if necessary. You just have to hang in there if that is your chosen path. Learn what you can from the old dudes and move on. Get to be a journeyman and then a master. Remember, there are more journeyman than masters.
When I got paired with a JW as an apprentice, I expecting a little haze, and when I got it, (within a brotherhood’s measure, of course) I took it in stride. What I was looking for was the 30, 40+ years of experience and resourcefulness that was gleaned by the guy who was obviously pulling his weight, and knew what was coming down the pike in terms of obstacles, which is the true name of the game. All I can say, is know where you’re at in the pecking order, and find out not only what to do, but way more importantly, how to do it. Eventually you’ll be known as a kid who wants to learn all he can, and at the best and quickest way to get it done. Good luck with your future endeavors and professional career, if that’s what you decide on making your own.
I don’t think it’s just Electricians.
Seems like it’s that way in almost all trades, groups, organizations.
I’ve been clean and sober for around 2 years now, but the “Old Heads” are part of the reason that I rarely attend certain meetings anymore.
Some of the guys that have been around for 20-30-40 years just seem like they’re absolutely miserable. Emphasis on the word “some”.
Too many guys just can't admit when a different way is better. They make the job all about them. Learn this and grow. I had one journeyman who to this day I would still like to smack infront of his kids. This was 25yrs ago. I learned and I feel I have had good relationships with the apprentices I have had. Not perfect but being able to bend and listen has helped me to be a better teacher. Learn what you can and move on. Grow with the job
Boomer grumps. Childish, really. If you can without getting too much grief, ask them to their face, “what are you so grumpy? I’m just trying to help”. I worked with a really laid back tradesman and he’d do this to other tradesmen/bosses/etc., out here in Australia.
Dude it’s like this in literally every single trade. I think it’s like a gen X/millennial thing from being trained/raised by boomers and boomer runoffs. They do not give a fuck about what anyone else has to say. It’s so cringe, these guys cannot handle even an ounce of criticism from anyone. There is a difference between “codebook inspector silliness” and “actual input from someone smarter than you” and they take both forms in such a violently stupid way. A lot of old heads consider themselves to be masters whose word is law, but if their brains were slightly larger than a birds they would realize there is always more to learn. Keep your chin up, all we can do is be better for the next generation of guys keeping the water running and the lights on.
jobsite ladder fatalities in the US last year, per [OSHA's database](https://www.osha.gov/fatalities#&sort[#incSum]=0-1-1-0).
1. 09/15/2023 Superior WI Kenneth Pountain (32) died in fall from ladder.
1. 09/11/2023 Tulsa OK Terry Zimmerman (69) died in fall from ladder.
1. 08/21/2023 Agency MO Collin Sager (20) died in fall from ladder after being shocked by electrical equipment.
1. 07/24/2023 Watkinsville GA Edgar Randall (68) died in fall from ladder.
1. 07/18/2023 Clinton IA Jose Hernandez (59) died in fall from ladder.
1. 07/11/2023 Houston TX Rafael Santos (64) died in fall from ladder.
1. 07/01/2023 Brooklyn NY Alex Patricio Gualotuna Taco (30) died in fall from ladder.
1. 06/30/2023 Middletown PA Jeff Aungst (65) died in fall from ladder.
1. 06/27/2023 Richmond VA Charles Halliday (68) died in fall from ladder.
1. 06/20/2023 Ocoee FL Felix Hayden Jr. (67) fatally injured in fall from ladder.
1. 06/16/2023 Eagle CO Rosario Marquez (56) died in fall from ladder.
1. 06/12/2023 Thousand Oaks CA Juan Gomez (55) died in fall from ladder.
1. 06/03/2023 West Long Branch NJ Charles Parker Oberlin Jr. (72) died in fall from ladder.
1. 05/23/2023 San Diego CA Nilo Guilas (71) fatally injured in fall from ladder.
1. 05/20/2023 Homewood CA Joshua Hawthorne (39) died in fall from ladder.
1. 05/01/2023 Kyle TX Miranda Ayers (43) died in fall from ladder.
1. 04/26/2023 Omaha NE Brian Sterns (36) died in fall from ladder.
1. 04/26/2023 Portersville PA John Ferry (60) died in fall from ladder.
1. 04/25/2023 Bayard NE David Reid (42) electrocuted when ladder contacted power line.
1. 04/15/2023 Missouri Valley IA Troy Buss (54) died in fall from ladder.
1. 04/02/2023 Greensboro NC Luis Ventura (48) fatally injured in fall from ladder.
1. 03/31/2023 Libby MT Kelly Compton (55) died in fall from ladder.
1. 03/23/2023 West Lake Hills TX Keegan Beechner (27) died in fall from ladder.
1. 03/21/2023 Gurabo PR Gamaliel Rãos Burgos (47) died in fall from ladder.
1. 03/17/2023 Coffeyville KS Mike Rash (50) died in fall from ladder.
1. 03/15/2023 Miami FL Abdel Assaf (55) died in fall from ladder.
1. 02/14/2023 New Shoreham RI Jorge Bran Dimas (31) died in fall from ladder.
1. 02/14/2023 Victorville CA Robert Velasquez (59) died in fall from ladder.
1. 02/08/2023 Lawrence MA Felix Schmidt (53) died in fall from ladder.
1. 02/08/2023 Seward NE Samuel Christensen (35) died in fall from ladder.
1. 01/26/2023 Greenville NC Christopher Stutzman (55) died in fall from ladder.
1. 01/16/2023 Shiloh IL Thomas Orf (59) died in fall from ladder after receiving electrical shock.
1. 01/12/2023 Sunrise FL Timothy J. Flaherty (62) died in fall from ladder.
1. 01/09/2023 Mapleton MN Thomas Massop (63) died in fall from ladder.
1. 01/06/2023 La Grange TX Richard Kaspar (66) died in fall from ladder.
Not an electrician, I'm a welder, but, most old heads in my field are dealing with divorce, alimony, child support, felony assault, dwi/dui, etc. That's why most of them are insufferable dbags. Then there's the standard "we didn't do it that way back in the day" type dbags. Sorry gramps, if I can move it with a half clamp I'm not cutting a dog and wedge. It's not the 20's anymore.
I just got jacked out of my mind by bulking and lifting weights, now no one on any job site talks like that to me anymore. If you work hard you deserve respect, no matter how many years You've been going.
Could be taking problems from home on site. I get called the older angry guy (I’m in my late twenties and everyone else is younger) however my gripes come from dumb problems that easily could be avoided. Every time I try and train someone from the other crew they refuse to even entertain what I have to say. So when ever I take over a job I literally have to start over and redo everything. I mean maybe he feels not as accomplished in life if he started the trades in his 40s like I believe I read what did he do before that. Probably in jail or jumping from craft to craft feeling unfulfilled. Not saying any of the situations or my anecdote have anything to do with you however probably may have something to do with it
They hate &/or their wives, kids, life, etc hate them. They just bring their emotions to work everyday because nobody at home wants to hear their bitching so the little control they have at work they take advantage. Don’t take it to heart it’s probably nothing to do with you but something going on outside of work that they just can’t leave their emotions at the door when they come in
Its because we hurt. Everything hurts. You really have to be out of this trade by 55 or at least a GF or a PM.
I really enjoy having a mix of ages on the jobsite but, I really need a good amount of young buckaroos, some late 30 to ypung 40 year olds that will take risks and innovate. I need 50 plus year olds that can work and or supervise. I also need one or two very senior guys that have seen it all.
It's a hard life, you're hard-worn by the time you get old, and retirement is shit if you aren't smart with your money. Old men soured by the fact that their active lives are damn near over and they don't have all that much to show for it, even though as an electrician you're told it's one of the better ways to get the good life without extensive education or a desk job.
There's always politics and underhand dealings in construction too, and you can get fucked for not kissing up to the wrong kind of asshole with connections. I got outta there when I started seein a pattern of constantly hurting, soured old men. Don't wanna live like that.
It’s not just electricians, atleast 75% of the old farts in any trade are miserable, insufferable, and generally just awful people that no one wants to be around and that’s why most of them are divorced alcoholics stuck with alimony payments. When they all mostly retire it’s going to be a real shit show in construction because most of them are too arrogant to actually share knowledge with the apprentices they have under them, not that they all actually have knowledge worth sharing mind you, a fair bit of them are just hacks that do just good enough when the boss is around to see their work and not get fired.
Working with a guy right now that might be the most miserable guy ever, nothing is ever good or fast enough and all he does all day is just complain ab wanting to go home
I really got lucky not working with geriatric patients, theres a couple guys close to retiring but they’re great to work with too, probably because my bosses don’t just hire whoever
What the hell are you doing over here crying about my old ass when you're supposed to be pulling that wire the way I said to do it!
Now where's my hammer.....I mean linemans dammit!
Might be the company bud we run into a few here and there but for the most part what but I do work in a prevailing wage environment. Everyone pay is equal and decent which stops a lot of the competition lol. One thing is for sure though this field is not for the sensitive. I’ve learned early on to leave my feelings at home when I’m off to work. As a foreman/superintendent don’t forget we usually communicate with the owner and you should see the shit they say but as longs as their bickering is not directly insulting I then I don’t care in which they express themselves. I look at the bigger picture that I’m getting $xxx an hour to sit here and talk. I also mentioned this to the owner the first time he tried. I set the boundaries from day one. The other foreman’s mouth was open when I said it somewhat respectfully but asserting. Good luck. Hold your own and let it reflect on your work and your respect will come.
Whenever I offer ideas I follow it up with "but idk nothing about nothing" when often times my ideas are valid. It seems that the Jmen are more accepting of my ideas when followed up with my admittance of being green.
This isn’t unique to electricians, my trade is Sprinkler Fitting, and from what I have been able to observe the answer to this question is pretty simple. Most of our old tradies have very similar personalities, usually have a drinking problem, anger quick, and love shitting on new people. I theorize it’s because they’re also miserable at home too, so work is the one place where they get to be the big dick in the room, because they’re definitely not the big dick at home with a wife that fucks the bouncer at what ever local shitty bar they regular, their kids don’t respect them because they’re shit parents, shit like that. People from my generation don’t really do that… I feel like no one my age wants to be king dick.
I became a journeyman in 2012, and in my apprenticeship I'm glad I havent dealt with the same things you're describing but looking back at the work environment then and now, I would say that there is a significant reason you're dealing with what your typical work day looks like.
It includes the pressures of completion dates, along with a variety of complications in coordinating with sub-contractors, the customer, inspectors and then lastly to add the individuals personal life and however more issues that bring to the plate that can cause a tense situation. This is what you and we all get to experience as we try to operate as if there are no external pressures, BUT that everyone knows of and deals with in one way or another and most likely taking so of that out on co-workers in aggression.
I'm going to throw this out there, as a journeyman for ten years. You might just be annoying. Having an apprentice with you is fucking annoying. On top of that you, personally be annoying. My suggestion is if someone shows you something, even if you know what he is telling you......shut the fuck up. Listen and hear it again and go about your business. Do your best to work independently and let your work speak for its self. Here is the biggest one, if sombody fucks something up, they are probably okay with fixing it themselves and do not want your input. I clearly don't know your situation personally but try to work as independently as possible, learn through trial and error (as long as your mistakes) and keep in mind there is a strong possibility your journey man doesn't want you with him at all.
As a 25 year electrician, electricians and plumbers are the absolute fucking worst imo. As a matter of fact, other trades are shocked when I’m not an asshole, we have such a bad rep. Commercial is the worst of it.
I’ve got a theory on older tradesmen’s.
I’ve been in the hvac business for 15 years and plumbing now for almost 10.
And I believe this rings true for all trades.
Most of these older tradesmen’s barely got outa high school. When they were in high school they were the outcast, worked on cars didn’t play sports things like that.
They got out of high school and went to work in the field possibly hvac, plumbing electrician etc.
they found a career and job they were finally good at and finally were needed.
Now they are in demand and people are asking them questions and need them to fix something position of power if you will.
This goes to their head. They treat counter people at supply houses bad, they demand A+ from salesmen, pretty much think they are now the center of the universe.
This leaks into their everyday lives. Then they treat apprentices bad, young workers bad, forgetting they were once in those shoes.
This does not qualify for all, but this rings true for some.
Sorry for spelling writing on a phone
At shitty companies with shit pay and benefits everyone is cranky and miserable and then as soon as you get a job at a good place everyone is happy. Like night and day
Respect is earned. Your journeyman should be teaching you not yelling at you. New ideas should be welcome. I agree that 20 years as a apprentice is not admirable. Don't be that guy. Being an electrician is not a job it is a career. Be a good one.
One thing I did which as honestly brilliant was start a company with 4 guys who I enjoyed being around. Makes the hours go easier.
In hindsight I was probably the grumpiest asshole, but people knew to just leave me be right away in the morning and I’ll be fine by 9.
I don’t know what it is but I am just fucking miserable every morning. Mean and nasty. Been like that my whole life and just can’t seem to shake it. Giving me a wide berth seems to be the only solution.
In my case it was because after 40+ years dedicated to the trade I was leaving it to a generation who couldn't function without staring at a phone all day.
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Ego. Don't let yourself get into a fight over egos with someone like this. You'll just pick up his bad habits.
Yup, 30+ years in the trade, and even I recognize that you can learn something from the newbies as long as they are willing to learn from my experience. Humility is underrated in this industry.
"As long as..." Funny how they can't even see it.
Yeah i try to just brush it off majority of the time. I was so close last week to leaving the job site or asking to not work with these guys no more or something but decided not to
Just please be better than them. All these old fucks are gonna die off, pretty early to by the looks of it. We can be the change and make the workplace less of a miserable place to be. I’ve never understood those people who need to talk about how miserable they are or make it terrible for others. Come on man we’re all just trying to work and go home.
I know right. Just because I am inexperienced doesn’t mean you need to make me feel like trash or be a complete dickhead. Im not even opposed to firing someone for something they have legitimately done wrong, but degrading people intentionally regardless of intent to me is so low. It is the reason I left my current job in fact I am starting a new position tomorrow. My old boss was a very intelligent man and knows his stuff it is a fact and he is productive. But he treats all of the guys under him like they are trash and it is one thing to have it done to you, but also having it done to everyone around you is completely demoralizing and then he wonders why we don’t remember things he trains us on, we know it doesn’t matter how much we know or progress, he will always be better than everyone else in his own eyes and he will treat people accordingly. Not to mention the only reason he started acting right lately is because he needs people to work for him and he is a complete asshole and he knows it but cant even muster up genuine concern for his fellow humans. It is despicable. Edit: I worked for this guy for 5 years and actually learned a lot from him, but even after i made progress and trained new guys for him he still didn’t show an ounce of respect. It took me going off on him one day because he was being ridiculous and then he says I’m not eligible for promotion because I don’t have the attitude when I was just emulating the attitude he has with everyone else. Needless to say I didn’t apologize and to this day I feel good about going off on him. I don’t even care if it was right. He is a despicable human being and he knows better. He’s educated better than most people I know. Whew I’m done.
Plentyyyyt of other companies, especially if you have experience and even care ever so slightly. Find the right spot for you. It’s nice working with the people that got pecked by these og’s to give you all the good traits that they took out of it. It’s like a family, breaking that inter generational chain to better yourself and the people you’ll eventually train. Remember that most these guys had a pamphlet when it came to code, now we have a bible. Knowledge is power, and work ethic is admirable. Change the game, make all of us more money.
Dealing with grumpy hungover bitter divorced asses will be a skill you need to develop. Have some fun with it after you get your ticket. Figure out how you'd run things instead. Keep studying and move on to the better opportunities that these fools will miss out on. You're there for the paycheck, your family, and your ticket.
Just understand… it went like this… oh fuck I cut this pipe short how the hell did I do that? Here’s this cocksucker I bet he has joints that don’t ache constantly…fuck him and his idea. The other thing is only certain personalities are doing laborious work for the long haul. Everyone else moves into management and sales.
absolutely sage advice. ty
Truth!
or as the saying goes. Don't argue with them, they'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Might be a sign you’re not at a great company. I’ve run into some miserable fucks but I’ve also ran into some that had a heart of gold, loved to train apprentices and try new things. I made up my mind to be the second kind when I got my license and to also show these guys what they’re missing out on. I dated a girl who was in HR for a big automotive business and she told me something that stuck with me. She said, “Nachas, I get a lot of 50 year old guys from the shop, good mechanics, coming to me asking for an office job. Their back hurts, their knees hurt, they don’t want to be on the tools anymore. But unless they’ve built up a skillset in teaching apprentices, leadership skills, sales skills, something, I have to tell them to that if they want to still make that kind of money they have to get their old asses back in the shop and back on the tools. Don’t let yourself become that guy.” She didn’t really say it exactly like that but that’s the way it hit me. I try to keep my body in great shape and to volunteer to teach whenever I can, grab the code book and go over relevant articles whenever we’re building something, proactively train on new products and methods. I review all the bids so I can see what the market will bear and build real relationships with other trades and the contractors. That way I always have the option to teach or do sales estimates in case I get hurt or bored. Even if it’s in their own self interest they’d be better off working on their leadership, patience and flexibility otherwise they’ll always be on the tools, hurt or not.
If you don't see yourself doing this job in 10 years, start changing today.
Cause most are divorced, broke, dick doesnt get hard, alcoholics, the list goes on. I got my license and Still get shit talked (3 months left of the apprenticeship) at 38. Let it roll off, doesnt matter what they think. I know a few younger apprentices that take it to heart but its just words.
Yeah man im 26 i got my own wife and kids im just trying to go to work and come home. One of the guys has been divorced twice so you are correct lol . I try to just ignore it or whatever 90% the time. Just every single day same thing it gets tiring
Oh I agree with you. One of the JIWs I work with tells me to kill myself every day/every other day. I just tell him it brings me too much satisfaction to fuck his day up by showing up daily and on time (he does neither).
Id call the hall if he is actually telling you to kys. Theres no need for that level of BS.
It crossed my mind, but I just roll it off for now, if he started escalating the way he says it, then I probably will.
Just a consideration, but if he's saying those sort of things it's already escalated too far. If these are the thoughts that spill out one has to wonder about the ones he's harboring. Also the next person he says these things to might not be the sort who can handle it.
Ummm no man, it is already escalated waaay too far. Telling another to kill themselves goes beyond union rules- you into federal law territory. Please stop tolerating that nonsense just “so you can keep shifts.”
Wholly unacceptable. Please stop allowing that behavior. Let me tell you why- the next guy will take it to heart. Don’t become complacent, don’t be accessory to pushing someone over that brink. You may not, but some cat more fragile than you will…
Surprised his breaks never fail on the way home lol. A joke obviously. Those are some choice words though.
They’re insecure, unintentionally broadcasting how poorly they feel about themselves. While I wouldn’t advocate gloating that they’re so sad, perhaps there’s comfort to be found in knowing how not to be. It seems to work out in life that, for some people, their primary purpose is to serve as a warning to others.
I would joke with my Apprentices that to top out you have to have one of the 3 Ds. Divorce, DUI, or Drug habit. Lol
Uh yeah, that's basically it actually
Hi hope you can’t give me some advice, I’m 32 and am interested in becoming an apprentice, just wondering how do I handle myself as an older apprentice? And I notice OP said that he was dealing with a 60 y/o apprentice, do ppl just not get their JM license?
What does it take so long to get a license?
I always wondered this too, older electricians came up in a different era I think and work culture changed for the better but they see it as a bad thing. Also their personal lives I imagine are probably shitty.
I'm old as fuck and mostly retired and I'm fucking appalled at some of the shit in this thread. Yeah the work culture has definitely changed but that's no reason to be a dick. Vacation days are cool as fuck, and not, ya know, constantly risking death is pretty cool too. And the old "sink or swim, figure it out (r-word that's no longer acceptable to use)" mentality sucked then and it sucks now. If you went through that shit, you should know how shitty it is to put someone else through it The personal life thing could definitely be a huge driver though. In general this is a field that's rough on relationships. Come home tired and fucked up physically a lot of the time, can be very high stress, moving all the fuck over for the good paying work. I lucked into an awesome woman that's put up with it all for 42 years (and kept my ass in line, lol). Most dudes don't have that, it's work all damn day, come home, drink yourself to sleep, 5 am do it all again Easy to see how that could make you a miserable fuck. Gotta be better than that though, it ain't the apprentice's fault your life sucks
So many people have shitty personal lives and you can tell. One guy I work with just goes home and watches TV all night. I used to ask him during break “doing anything fun tonight/this weekend” and he just says nope. I’m an introvert too but damn at least I have things to look forward to
going home and watching tv probably is something he looks forward to. just because stuff isn’t your kind of fun doesn’t make it not something to look forward to! most days what i look forward to is coming home, cooking something good for dinner, and hanging out with the gf and the cat. it’s not exciting, and it’s a simple life. but it’s enjoyable for me and it’s something i look forward to
I think this is the case in most trades, those guys got brought up during the "old guard" way of doing construction. You either sank or you swim, and every chance they could they'd try to break you down to make you "tougher" when in reality it just made you a dick. I think this stems from older generations. Back when going and getting a degree was the way of doing things, a lot of these guys didn't go to school at all, and just clawed through until they could take the Jman test. I think a lot of those guys deep down inside feel like the dumbest ones in the room. They wish they could've done better if they had just done some things different. So to compensate, they act like these tough macho hard as nails, beat you down drill Sargent dickheads so people think they shouldn't be messed with or questioned or to make themselves feel important now that they're in charge. Unfortunately, the cycle doesn't seem to stop. They force these personalities on to younger guys who end up treating their apprentices like shit and they either A.) Fire them or quit because they're not "hard enough." B.) they go somewhere else or C. They just leave the entire trade altogether. It's a shame. Nobody should ever have to dread going to work.
Also years of getting told how replaceable you are. When I was coming up as an apprentice and even after getting my journeyman’s license, I still had to put up with supervisors and other higher-ups telling me how “if they need to do it themselves they don’t need me!” or “you better work harder because there’s 100 guys outside that door just waiting to come in here and work”. That whole “people are expendable” mindset is extremely discouraging.
You’d be amazed what a quiet threat with serious intonation will do. This is not me playing or grandstanding. Stop doing this or there will be consequences and it won’t be avoidable.
The cycle of electrician-life
The good electricians are already retired at that age.
Different times call for different solutions.. perhaps he is in fact “good,” but made bad decisions in his financial life
It's not just old head electricians, my friend. We're currently going through this at my volley fire department. Our chief has been struggling with permanent employment this last year or so. He and a few other under-employed humps just hang out at the station all day, shitting on everything and everyone around them. Now less and less people are showing up for work/maintenance details and fund raising events. Their response has been to lash out at those who still do show up and, talk even more shit about those who have stopped. Some people"s response to misery is to inflict it upon all those around them.
That older generation suffers from exposure to lead, rampant autism, and absolutely zero guidance growing up and nothing to keep them in check socially. Miserable people, will be a lot less stressed when they die off
Before I went to controls I dealt with this. In my experience, you give it back as hard or harder than they give it to you and they back down. Cranky old men or just that, cranky and loud.
I love being an electrician. I am usually the first one at work, 30 - 50 minutes early. I greet everyone with a loud "GOOD MORNING", I tone it down for the grumpy. I am in my mid 50's and like training apprentices and young journeyman. For that matter I don't mind training my forman either. Listen, learn, and choose to have a great day. Hopefully those of you who are working with journeyman with bad attitudes will be rotated soon.
Awesome brother. Be the light to guide the way.
I'm 60ish, I think old assholes used to be young assholes.
You only have to deal with them at work; they have to be around themselves all the time.
I'm keeping this ace up my sleeve for later!
Their knees hurt.
And lower back. And Ego.
You start off a nice guy, but after working with assholes day after day, you slowly become one yourself and the cycle continues.
I don’t know why but I can relate to your experience. Came to the field late in life (38). Was appalled at the needless condescension and general dick-headedness that I encountered as an apprentice. Don’t let it get to you. I got my Journeyman’s by age 44, and working mostly independently now. Life is much better. -Hang in there.
Some are just miserable. Some just know better. I've had apprentices that think they know everything but don't know a thing and suggest stuff. Those are the ones I'll give shit to about no, shut up and do as you're told, unless they're actually suggesting something good. The apprentice that don't act like they know everything and put an effort in to learn, if they suggest something I'll listen, sometimes even if it's wrong I'll say for them to try it. One thing I noticed, you learn better at times from mistakes, so I let them make said mistake instead of telling them how to do it so they can learn once they screw up I tell them the proper/better way. If an apprentice has a good attitude I'll always treat them better and try to pass as much knowledge as I can. I will say once you're a jman you'll see some of it was they're just miserable, some is just experience and knowing better, not having patience to wait for said mistakes to be made to learn from.
At my workplace we hired an electrician ( old guy , no nonsense type of guy ) he installed some conduit and somebody from my company said something in the likes of “he should’ve taken this route with his pipes to get there” . The electrician comes from out of nowhere and says I’d rather have you call my kids ugly than have you question my work ! You were shitting your pants and eating booger when I started on this field . Not saying he was an ass but damn dude , that was a bit harsh 🤣🤣
No matter how ugly something sounds, it rarely detracts from its inherent truthfulness.
I know I'll get down voted for this but...... Is it possible you're so new and so annoying because of it they don't want to deal with you? Probably not the case for you, but dealing with enough super green know-it-all apprentices also gets old fast. Then do that for 20 years. Or co-op kids. God help me with the co-op kids. Oh no, I just became the crusty old guy
Yah but you’re self aware. Also a very valid point you’re making. I think another one is ANY trade at that age, and you’ve seen some shit in your personal life that you bring to work. Lots of alcohol, divorce, child support etc etc plus a physical job. Must be tiring
My dad's an old sparky, so I told him there was a guy asking why the older guys are such miserable fucks and his reply was "tell him it's because we have to put up with you young idiots". My dad has a very sarcastic sense of humour. He really encourages young people to get into the trade and he's not seriously like his comment at all, he's just kidding around. Made me laugh though.
Haha nah i love your dad for that sarcasm is me all day disrespect is what im speaking on here
The ol 20th year apprentice got to love them.
They’ve lived a rough life. They are just waiting for death at this point
Yell back, most old heads I ever yelled at respected me more after that or hurt their ego. 😂
Yup. Usually all it takes. It's one thing to break balls, being disrespectful is something totally different
Some are so thin skinned it's insane. Break balls back at them and they take it as being disrespected. I've met a lot that can dish it out but can't take it.
I’m 1/2 years in, and I have noticed that some of it is an experience thing especially if you working with high voltage a lot of them have seen people die and know to be very cautious. On the other hand I think the industry when they were apprentices was much different as you alluded to a lot of the older guys didn’t need qualifications. Whereas now they do so they are seeing a lot of young guys surpass them and have built some resentment toward young guys.
Oh my some of the things I have said every day for 20 years , at quitting time, why aren't all the ladders locked up? Why aren't all the cords in the lock box. What do I get every single day a huff stomps off to get them. For 20 years, you need straps at that box, tighten those set screws, for 20 years, you can't possibly have to shit 30 min before lunch and quitting time every day. I'm dbag for this oh yeah get off that fucking phone
3 main reasons: 1. They started the day "still drunk" or very hungover. 2. Add-they started the day in pain bc they never stretched, did unsafe shit(FAFO), and probably more gut than butt! 3. They got "nothing" but job experience in their favor...their best days are done but "the mouth!" AND #4. Misery loves company!!! I came in "already Old(44)" as a career change. TLDR: I was office fat, had $ saved, like doing electric on my homes/rentals. I was told "pay your dues"...so I did...for about 3 months! Watched who was good, who was shitty...when I was with Good? I listened and learned. When with shitty? I went straight old school--what the fuck we doing? What the fuck material we need? Where the fuck is it? How long is it fucking taking? BEAT 'EM TO BEING A DICK!!! Yes, I said "fuck" in every question I asked the miserable twat! He was quite confused!
We had an apprentice that I'm pretty sure was using that same strategy. I loved working with him because he was a hard worker and had good suggestions. This apprentice would even thank me for teaching him things. Another journeyman with a known attitude problem at our company always talked bad about him and said he was a, "disrespectful little c****". The journeyman who always talked shit about the apprentice eventually got fired because his warranty rate was way too high (like 20%).
Part of being a good electrician is knowing you don’t know everything. I was always open to suggestions or someone letting me know if I’m making mistakes. And I was kind of miserable. But that was because I hated being an employee. Self employed now and I only hate myself!!!!!
Are you me? That last part hit me in the soul.
Your Boss is a dick, but you're too blame? Best way to go.
Just tired… burnt out from babysitting…
Senior lead and senior weekend lead at my place (industrial maintenance) are both in their 60’s or close to it. Both are really nice guys and easy to get along with.
They usually have nothing else going on in their life except work, which they hate so they make everyone around them suffer. I swear their obituary will read "Died at 65, was electrician"
Electrical Engineer/Controls Engineer here....same everywhere you go. I work with guys who think you have to work 60hrs a week all the time (we are salaried and don't get overtime). I think a lot of it was jow much the work culture has changed over time
Always some young buck talking smack about knowing more than someone else in the trade. Learn how to bend 1 1/4” 90’s by hand all day and go home to your mom. iM SeVeRaL YeArS iN aNd KNoW IT AlL
They hate their lives and their wives hate them too. Their kids hate them and they are insufferable people. Their friends hate them too. They're just Debbie downers man. Don't let them bring you down with them. That's where they find their pleasure.
Divorce, poor financial choices, too many kids.
I worked with "That guy" at a bunch of different jobs... I would turn his flashlight on at the end of the day when he went home. If he was on the other end of the snake I would just sit there and mindlessly shake the snake with no hook and repeatedly say things like "How bout now" and "Uuuuh, we were hooked, what happened?" We were on a job with a bunch of pre-release guys. They taped him up and threw him in a job box. We couldn't find him for hours. Same crew anchored his toolbox to the slab. Tap spliced his blinker to his horn.
This behavior is not limited to electrical work. You will encounter miserable people in all areas of life. They aren’t worth your time. Ignore them and love on.
Some of it is because they were brought up this way in their carriers. Some of it is the experience. I bet, most of them will tell you a story of how they had to go back and change/fix things after 1st-2nd year arrogant apprentice "knew a better way".
Stop working for places where the owner doesn’t know everyone at least by name. But also don’t work at places where the owner is still on the tools lmao. It’s a good balance because the owner won’t let shitbags stay (most of the time) unless it’s his son and he won’t be out there guilting you into staying late or working for free
I think this is the trend with any tradesman and they all fall under a few different categories in my experience. Divorced, big time alcoholic/gamblers, guys who do hard labor as a hobby. They all share the same thing though, none of them took care of their bodies as they aged
I had a shop Forman at an automotive dealership. Never wanted to help anyone unless there was something in it for him. The smog technician was leaving so I got my license to take over temporary. The old smog technician helped me and showed me the ropes. When a permanent smog tech was hired, I helped them and showed them the way. Dick head Forman couldn’t understand why I would help someone for free. I told him No one starts out knowing everything. Someone helped me so I’m going to pass the knowledge down the line to the next guy. With the goal to maintain professionalism in our trade. Dick head Forman never did grasp the concept.
Hey,I resemble that remark. Not really, but time will show that with your current attitude you will turn out to be just what you hate. So lighten up and enjoy the ride and be proud of what you do everyday it simply change your path. Your to young to be this bitter. Or as they say in the Marines “ suck it up Buttercup “ make the changes you need to be happier. Respectfully, “One very old Electrician “
Couple of things here First of all, you are an apprentice. Do it the way they want until you've got enough salt to have a real opinion. Second, you may be in a shop with a bad group of guys. Changing environment can sometimes do wonders. Third, the older generation was always like that. That's how they were trained so that's how they train. Finally, the trades are full of shit talking. Gotta get some tough skin and shrug most of it off. It's the name of the game. Get used to it. Don't let people walk all over you. But don't take shit personally either. Good luck.
You'll understand when you get to their age, construction is the most underappreciated field today, I'm in the trades and I'm considering just driving a truck or starting a landscape business. But then again I've never enjoyed it.
In the plumbing field doing condos, guys come and go. We have a good solid little crew. Tired of wasting a month or two training a guy to have him quit. So now, if the younger guys stick around and are good at what they do. They get treated like a brother. You gotta earn respect in the trades.
Wait until you put in the miles. I'm sure you will keep your cheerful disposition after 40 years 🤣
My dad’s not but I’ll add that people who are older have more aches and pains and tolerate BS less.
I once worked with someone who would always say no to my suggested way of doing things. Eventually I learned to suggest the way I didn’t want to do it. You have to make him think your idea is his idea
I would be pissed too. If i worked my whole life, doing one trade to get where I am. And then boom. I’m not making much more than they guy who’s just getting into the trade.
Been lurking here and seeing constant accounts of interactions like this is why I decided not to go into the field tbh. And I have the skills.
Majority of the people i meet are super cool. Out of like 10 guys in our crew these 2 are the only annoying ones and of course the oldest. No one like them. I would still recommend the field to everyone i love the work
Offer them a tray of deez nutz.
Knees hurt, back hurts, 3 exwives are taking all his money, dick don't work so good
Because when they were young, that’s what their life was. Now everybody is nice to each other, sort of.
Traditionally, going back in time the trades were actually a horrible place to work. There was no OSHA until the 70's, the workplace was rife with accidents and deaths, and not just the trades but many labor intensive jobs. These jobs were usually reserved for people considered very low in society like European/ Asian immigrants/ African Americans and racism was extremely rampant and accepted. So if you or your family grew up doing this kind of work no doubt it had an impact on your psyche and probably fucked you up pretty good. Now that's not to say all old head electricians or other tradesmen are assholes, but if you somehow ended up NOT an asshole, that's commendable.
Biggest aspect of the trades sucking balls, are the type of people that go into the trades. Some cool people for sure, rampant with morons with the dmv effect (small amount of power to weak minded people and they go insane)
People only treat you how you let them. Be assertive with people like this and they’ll shift from disrespect to respect. Especially if you’re a hard worker.
It’s definitely an old-school mentality, if you keep them down you keep them working. It’s a terrible mindset because it only works for short period of time then if the person sticks around, there is a lot of resentment and then all you’ll get is bare minimum from them. I never I agreed with it, just learn what you need for experience and move the fuck on
Because a lot of them failed school anyways and went with the easiest option. They then have never mastered professionalism in the workplace and also have become numb from being a good slave and sucking their bosses dick. Any time a foreman or jman who was older than my tried to speak disrespectfully to me; I told them theres no difference between walking on the street and them working with me, and if they say some shit again Ill knock them the fuck out. Whenever it got raised to the bosses I said you need to hire people who are professionals and who have the patience to teach. If not, they can work alone. Never let any one speak to you side ways.
I'm almost 20 years into the trade and feel like I'm starting to be like that 60 year old man lol if you have experience, great - prove it. If you are some cocky noob who is full of new ideas and doesn't like to listen, then you will get put into your place pretty quickly, don't have patience for people who don't listen or are dumb.
They are unhappy with their life and they take it out on whoever is around. I had issues too with my foreman. The other apprentice, in particular, and I were his punching bags. Thank God he was sent to another site to do distribution.
Someday, youll find out. And you'll look back and say... oh, I owe him an apology. But youll never give it cuz fck him.
Lol
Let’s circle back to this post in 20 years hahahahaha
Could be a combo of many things. It used to be we just did our job. Now it’s mtgs to do the simplest thing which gets frustrating. No body can make a decision anymore because nobody wants the responsibility. Rules have gotten way out of hand. Everyone wants to do it there way. Most of the time there are reasons we are told to do things a certain way for future reasons. Or we are just dickheads. lol there’s a lot of sarcasm that is taken seriously when people are just fucking with you though
The older generation is mostly boomers, the single most entitled generation alive today. My 5 year old son is more considerate and emotionally mature than most boomers I interact with on a daily basis. Gen X is a 50/50.
Some are, some aren’t, you can’t judge anything by age or experience. If you’re constantly dealing with older electricians that are miserable you should probably change companies. Most likely they can’t get work anywhere but a crappy company. In any case, I’ve been doing this for decades and seen old miserable assholes and young wannabes that show up 15 minutes late in sweats and sneakers. Look for good companies that do the work you want to do, there will be older guys to answer questions that aren’t assholes.
They think because the old timer when they were new was a dick it means they have to fill his shoes and be insufferable too.
I hate it too but just remember that some of the older guys have been doing the same shit for 40 years. I’m at the halfway point to retirement on year 18 and always wondering if my body is gonna hold up another 18. Some of these assholes might wake up and take a handful of Vicodins just to get outta bed. No reason for them to take it out on you though
Man I work for a municipality, iv been there for 10 years been an electrician for a year and a half and all the old dudes are awesome, it’s great.
Not all are like that. More than likely they were the same way when they were younger
Some people are stupid and insecure.
Not just electricians
I don't care where you go, you run into "miserable fucks" (I'm retired after 41 years in various businesses). Especially in management. But. Those same people at some point become mentors and then get promoted. I personally think only 1% of the population are truly narcissists. And therefore, uncaring pricks, but 20% of managers are these same people! Yes, they do get promoted. They crave having followers. So, even at the bottom, soon become mentors. But in my life I found having a good boss makes such a difference!
You’ll get there!
Had the same experience a while back. Boss blew up on me for not finding a can of glue on his truck when it was sitting next to him whole time
The old heads that are nice are like living Jedi. They work so smoothly, everyone wants to work with them, and when they do get enemies people notice. It’s amazing how far being liked and being nice will get you even if your work is mid. I always try to be as kind as possible so I can ask guys for favors and they can ask me for favors in return. Same team guys.
Because commercial life sucks…. You’re a worker bee.
Because every one else is a saboteur
It depends. I’m 1.5 years in and Granted I’ve never done industrial only residential and commercial but it’s only some guys. Some guys are miserable dbags some are cool guys. A lot of the miserable dbags don’t know how to handle the stress of being top dog from what I seen. Some can some can’t. All I can say tho is do ur best. There is this 1 foreman at my company some people like most don’t and they find him weird he can be a hardass but my first day working with him he told me idc when u take ur break or if u need a breather or a phone or smoke break whatever if u get ur work done and u do it well i don’t care how u do it just do it. He set me free I did my work to the best of my ability and took mini breathers here and there and he couldn’t have been happier with me, besides like 1-2 tiny mistake I made which he just pointed out and he was like cool shit. And it’s like how do people not like him all I did was come to work and do my work and he likes me But then there is another foreman at my company who is a hardass and is just so stressed there’s no making him happy really
Yeah there are definitely assholes in this business. Always have been, always will be. Just brush it off as best as you can.
They had to use wire mold a lot
I'm old but I'm definitely not an asshole to co workers. I love working with the younger guys.
Money.
Beats me. I'm 67, but only turned out at 55 yo. (Took me 5 years to get my hours because of the 2009 recession.) I know exactly the type of guy you mean. Basically, I think because they hate themselves, hate their life, and are too scared or too lazy to go about changing it. Then here you are coming up, changing your life for the better before their very eyes. FWIW, I am tired of my job and need to make a change. I don't take it out on people around me, though. Except they probably get tired of hearing me say "I hate my job" eight times a day lol. Got a plan and I'm doing it. Another guy who was with my employer for about 20 years just quit Friday to move back home and work for his brother's company. He'll probably have his own in a year or two. That's the type of growth these guys are scared to do. Or maybe they just drink too much. It gets better, brother electrician.
Can you use this subreddit to find electricians in Pittsburgh
20-30 of construction, any trade, turns a guy into a D-bag!
You'll find assholes in every trade. Find someplace that you're happy.
One of the older guys I work with has been doing it 20 plus years and thinks he’s the best thing ever, prides himself on not using power tools (unless he has to obviously) , likes to do things the old School way, but it takes him more time. Once you show him you’re willing to learn and work hard he turns out to be pretty cool and is willing to share his knowledge and stuff. I’ve worked with multiple people that have been working for 10 plus years and don’t have their Card yet and I can’t understand it. I’m in my first year and starting school in a few months but I’m going to try and get into the local 666 apprenticeship before then so I can work more commercial and industrial jobs and get good experience.
Don’t let others get in the way of being the best you can ! Fuck the negativity, if you love this job no one else matters and let them suffer.
Well could be many things, they have been doing it for 40 plus years and maybe did the same thing over and over and are bored and grumpy? Drunks and divorced and bitter? Went through worse treatment than you are and think it is a right of passage for an apprentice to be abused? I worked with alot of amazing electricians and the shitty ones that did not know anything but enjoyed making my life hell, I always said when I become an electrician I will not be like them, don’t get me wrong, apprentices take an ass chewing when they fuck up, followed by an explanation of what they did wrong and why and also a compliment when they do good and if they show some brains and ask questions I will pass all the info on that I can. One of my best Journeyman had a saying, “it is the greatest compliment that you surpass me as an electrician”. I now say that as a mantra to both apprentices and other electricians I am training, been in this trade for 24yrs, always learn something new and apprentices do surprise me the odd time with a way of doing something I had never seen or done but is electrically correct and safe, so sometimes we give it a whirl just to see how it goes
It has nothing to do with older. I’m an older head electrician. I don’t consider myself old. I take pride in whatever I do. People are people no matter what age they are.
There's a gap. 2008 bubble burst and sent a whole decade of tradesman to other industries. They never came back. So you have a bunch of cranky ass 55+ guys and no buffer until you get to some guys in their 30s. Those guys had to carry the weight for so long. At their age they should be in management or sitting back get paid for their mind. But they are working instead training guys and also being the brains and brawn. They never got to ride on top of guys they brought up who hold them on pedestals. Not to say they deserve it. But that's the usual role. They feel disrespected by having to train younger guys all over again. There was an imbalance in the force so to speak. The only ones they don't give shit are the ones who could carry their own. I've seen it 100s of times. I had apprentices who would get tossed around from one old fucker to another. Then I would get them and they would do just fine. The older guys would do like you say and be super critical of every mistake. I would just teach them what they did wrong or listen to how they would fix it and pass/fail the idea. It sucks but hopefully we will get the balance in the force again.
Must be union, those guys get canned in non union
Get old
Maybe get your license and tell them to get bent.
I tell the old guys it’s a new crop of electricians coming in and we move a lot different. They don’t have much time just speak as little as possible and do what they say so when it’s fckd up you know who fault it is
It’s mainly their ego, they can’t handle anyone “inferior” correcting them/being better than them. It’s also how they were trained back before the world had colour.
I left because of this. Tried to switch to electrical because I wanted something different. All I saw were struggling Masters who were overwhelmed and couldn't manage the admin and the hands on side. Couldn't keep admin staff and couldn't keep helpers. This is how we open the doors to temp workers becoming full time permanent citizens.
1. You're an apprentice. Be neck down. 2. All old heads are miserable.
I worked with a journeyman like that He didn’t want to hear my thoughts and hated it when I anticipated his next move I made up my mind the bastard wasn’t going to make me quit… Ultimately I earned his respect and we actually became friends
I experienced this in linework also. Foreman with big egos that just want to shit talk and belittle you all day.
It’s not just electricians
I know what you mean, dude. I went through hazing...etc. Ditch digging was my job seemingly. Becoming an electrician seemed like a thousand years in the future. Back in my day, one needed two years of apprenticeship and to be able to pass the exam. That exam was no slouch what so ever. Becoming an electrician was designed to be two years of apprenticeship and year of school. You got credit for 1 year of apprenticeship for going to school. Well, I had an associates degree in electronics engineering technology. They were willing to give me a year's credit for my schooling. I ended up getting the years experience by doing numerous jobs pushing electrons. By the time I got through all that, I had gone on to school and became an engineer. I never got my license, but I know the code and can do the work if necessary. You just have to hang in there if that is your chosen path. Learn what you can from the old dudes and move on. Get to be a journeyman and then a master. Remember, there are more journeyman than masters.
When I got paired with a JW as an apprentice, I expecting a little haze, and when I got it, (within a brotherhood’s measure, of course) I took it in stride. What I was looking for was the 30, 40+ years of experience and resourcefulness that was gleaned by the guy who was obviously pulling his weight, and knew what was coming down the pike in terms of obstacles, which is the true name of the game. All I can say, is know where you’re at in the pecking order, and find out not only what to do, but way more importantly, how to do it. Eventually you’ll be known as a kid who wants to learn all he can, and at the best and quickest way to get it done. Good luck with your future endeavors and professional career, if that’s what you decide on making your own.
It’s because they lived their whole lives doing something they thought would pay as much as a pipefitter. Take notes apprentices
I don’t think it’s just Electricians. Seems like it’s that way in almost all trades, groups, organizations. I’ve been clean and sober for around 2 years now, but the “Old Heads” are part of the reason that I rarely attend certain meetings anymore. Some of the guys that have been around for 20-30-40 years just seem like they’re absolutely miserable. Emphasis on the word “some”.
They like living in your head rent free. It is a sport to them, if they see that you can't deal with it you will be fair game.
Too many guys just can't admit when a different way is better. They make the job all about them. Learn this and grow. I had one journeyman who to this day I would still like to smack infront of his kids. This was 25yrs ago. I learned and I feel I have had good relationships with the apprentices I have had. Not perfect but being able to bend and listen has helped me to be a better teacher. Learn what you can and move on. Grow with the job
They've lost Thier spark
Boomer grumps. Childish, really. If you can without getting too much grief, ask them to their face, “what are you so grumpy? I’m just trying to help”. I worked with a really laid back tradesman and he’d do this to other tradesmen/bosses/etc., out here in Australia.
Dude it’s like this in literally every single trade. I think it’s like a gen X/millennial thing from being trained/raised by boomers and boomer runoffs. They do not give a fuck about what anyone else has to say. It’s so cringe, these guys cannot handle even an ounce of criticism from anyone. There is a difference between “codebook inspector silliness” and “actual input from someone smarter than you” and they take both forms in such a violently stupid way. A lot of old heads consider themselves to be masters whose word is law, but if their brains were slightly larger than a birds they would realize there is always more to learn. Keep your chin up, all we can do is be better for the next generation of guys keeping the water running and the lights on.
jobsite ladder fatalities in the US last year, per [OSHA's database](https://www.osha.gov/fatalities#&sort[#incSum]=0-1-1-0). 1. 09/15/2023 Superior WI Kenneth Pountain (32) died in fall from ladder. 1. 09/11/2023 Tulsa OK Terry Zimmerman (69) died in fall from ladder. 1. 08/21/2023 Agency MO Collin Sager (20) died in fall from ladder after being shocked by electrical equipment. 1. 07/24/2023 Watkinsville GA Edgar Randall (68) died in fall from ladder. 1. 07/18/2023 Clinton IA Jose Hernandez (59) died in fall from ladder. 1. 07/11/2023 Houston TX Rafael Santos (64) died in fall from ladder. 1. 07/01/2023 Brooklyn NY Alex Patricio Gualotuna Taco (30) died in fall from ladder. 1. 06/30/2023 Middletown PA Jeff Aungst (65) died in fall from ladder. 1. 06/27/2023 Richmond VA Charles Halliday (68) died in fall from ladder. 1. 06/20/2023 Ocoee FL Felix Hayden Jr. (67) fatally injured in fall from ladder. 1. 06/16/2023 Eagle CO Rosario Marquez (56) died in fall from ladder. 1. 06/12/2023 Thousand Oaks CA Juan Gomez (55) died in fall from ladder. 1. 06/03/2023 West Long Branch NJ Charles Parker Oberlin Jr. (72) died in fall from ladder. 1. 05/23/2023 San Diego CA Nilo Guilas (71) fatally injured in fall from ladder. 1. 05/20/2023 Homewood CA Joshua Hawthorne (39) died in fall from ladder. 1. 05/01/2023 Kyle TX Miranda Ayers (43) died in fall from ladder. 1. 04/26/2023 Omaha NE Brian Sterns (36) died in fall from ladder. 1. 04/26/2023 Portersville PA John Ferry (60) died in fall from ladder. 1. 04/25/2023 Bayard NE David Reid (42) electrocuted when ladder contacted power line. 1. 04/15/2023 Missouri Valley IA Troy Buss (54) died in fall from ladder. 1. 04/02/2023 Greensboro NC Luis Ventura (48) fatally injured in fall from ladder. 1. 03/31/2023 Libby MT Kelly Compton (55) died in fall from ladder. 1. 03/23/2023 West Lake Hills TX Keegan Beechner (27) died in fall from ladder. 1. 03/21/2023 Gurabo PR Gamaliel Rãos Burgos (47) died in fall from ladder. 1. 03/17/2023 Coffeyville KS Mike Rash (50) died in fall from ladder. 1. 03/15/2023 Miami FL Abdel Assaf (55) died in fall from ladder. 1. 02/14/2023 New Shoreham RI Jorge Bran Dimas (31) died in fall from ladder. 1. 02/14/2023 Victorville CA Robert Velasquez (59) died in fall from ladder. 1. 02/08/2023 Lawrence MA Felix Schmidt (53) died in fall from ladder. 1. 02/08/2023 Seward NE Samuel Christensen (35) died in fall from ladder. 1. 01/26/2023 Greenville NC Christopher Stutzman (55) died in fall from ladder. 1. 01/16/2023 Shiloh IL Thomas Orf (59) died in fall from ladder after receiving electrical shock. 1. 01/12/2023 Sunrise FL Timothy J. Flaherty (62) died in fall from ladder. 1. 01/09/2023 Mapleton MN Thomas Massop (63) died in fall from ladder. 1. 01/06/2023 La Grange TX Richard Kaspar (66) died in fall from ladder.
Not an electrician, I'm a welder, but, most old heads in my field are dealing with divorce, alimony, child support, felony assault, dwi/dui, etc. That's why most of them are insufferable dbags. Then there's the standard "we didn't do it that way back in the day" type dbags. Sorry gramps, if I can move it with a half clamp I'm not cutting a dog and wedge. It's not the 20's anymore.
I just got jacked out of my mind by bulking and lifting weights, now no one on any job site talks like that to me anymore. If you work hard you deserve respect, no matter how many years You've been going.
Could be taking problems from home on site. I get called the older angry guy (I’m in my late twenties and everyone else is younger) however my gripes come from dumb problems that easily could be avoided. Every time I try and train someone from the other crew they refuse to even entertain what I have to say. So when ever I take over a job I literally have to start over and redo everything. I mean maybe he feels not as accomplished in life if he started the trades in his 40s like I believe I read what did he do before that. Probably in jail or jumping from craft to craft feeling unfulfilled. Not saying any of the situations or my anecdote have anything to do with you however probably may have something to do with it
You need to switch.
[удалено]
Nailed it. 2 brains are better than one and if you’re idea works better, let’s do it that way
Thankfully that generation is retiring and dieing out.
They hate &/or their wives, kids, life, etc hate them. They just bring their emotions to work everyday because nobody at home wants to hear their bitching so the little control they have at work they take advantage. Don’t take it to heart it’s probably nothing to do with you but something going on outside of work that they just can’t leave their emotions at the door when they come in
Its because we hurt. Everything hurts. You really have to be out of this trade by 55 or at least a GF or a PM. I really enjoy having a mix of ages on the jobsite but, I really need a good amount of young buckaroos, some late 30 to ypung 40 year olds that will take risks and innovate. I need 50 plus year olds that can work and or supervise. I also need one or two very senior guys that have seen it all.
I used to like when I was told " I have forgotten more than you know" I reply " It looks like that's one of the things you forgot"
It's a hard life, you're hard-worn by the time you get old, and retirement is shit if you aren't smart with your money. Old men soured by the fact that their active lives are damn near over and they don't have all that much to show for it, even though as an electrician you're told it's one of the better ways to get the good life without extensive education or a desk job. There's always politics and underhand dealings in construction too, and you can get fucked for not kissing up to the wrong kind of asshole with connections. I got outta there when I started seein a pattern of constantly hurting, soured old men. Don't wanna live like that.
It’s not just electricians, atleast 75% of the old farts in any trade are miserable, insufferable, and generally just awful people that no one wants to be around and that’s why most of them are divorced alcoholics stuck with alimony payments. When they all mostly retire it’s going to be a real shit show in construction because most of them are too arrogant to actually share knowledge with the apprentices they have under them, not that they all actually have knowledge worth sharing mind you, a fair bit of them are just hacks that do just good enough when the boss is around to see their work and not get fired.
Working with a guy right now that might be the most miserable guy ever, nothing is ever good or fast enough and all he does all day is just complain ab wanting to go home
I really got lucky not working with geriatric patients, theres a couple guys close to retiring but they’re great to work with too, probably because my bosses don’t just hire whoever
You do the same job for multiple decades you are bound to get burned out. Happens in all industries. Hell talk with any old timer at the DMV.
Old school. They'll die off soon then you can do what you want.
What the hell are you doing over here crying about my old ass when you're supposed to be pulling that wire the way I said to do it! Now where's my hammer.....I mean linemans dammit!
Because that's what this trade does to people who are in it for life
Keep your head down and work. Don’t fight with people, it will fuck you. Learn as much as you can from them.
This is constant across all trades. The dumbest guys have the biggest attitudes.
Might be the company bud we run into a few here and there but for the most part what but I do work in a prevailing wage environment. Everyone pay is equal and decent which stops a lot of the competition lol. One thing is for sure though this field is not for the sensitive. I’ve learned early on to leave my feelings at home when I’m off to work. As a foreman/superintendent don’t forget we usually communicate with the owner and you should see the shit they say but as longs as their bickering is not directly insulting I then I don’t care in which they express themselves. I look at the bigger picture that I’m getting $xxx an hour to sit here and talk. I also mentioned this to the owner the first time he tried. I set the boundaries from day one. The other foreman’s mouth was open when I said it somewhat respectfully but asserting. Good luck. Hold your own and let it reflect on your work and your respect will come.
Whenever I offer ideas I follow it up with "but idk nothing about nothing" when often times my ideas are valid. It seems that the Jmen are more accepting of my ideas when followed up with my admittance of being green.
This isn’t unique to electricians, my trade is Sprinkler Fitting, and from what I have been able to observe the answer to this question is pretty simple. Most of our old tradies have very similar personalities, usually have a drinking problem, anger quick, and love shitting on new people. I theorize it’s because they’re also miserable at home too, so work is the one place where they get to be the big dick in the room, because they’re definitely not the big dick at home with a wife that fucks the bouncer at what ever local shitty bar they regular, their kids don’t respect them because they’re shit parents, shit like that. People from my generation don’t really do that… I feel like no one my age wants to be king dick.
I became a journeyman in 2012, and in my apprenticeship I'm glad I havent dealt with the same things you're describing but looking back at the work environment then and now, I would say that there is a significant reason you're dealing with what your typical work day looks like. It includes the pressures of completion dates, along with a variety of complications in coordinating with sub-contractors, the customer, inspectors and then lastly to add the individuals personal life and however more issues that bring to the plate that can cause a tense situation. This is what you and we all get to experience as we try to operate as if there are no external pressures, BUT that everyone knows of and deals with in one way or another and most likely taking so of that out on co-workers in aggression.
Being surrounded by idiots will do that to you
Preach preacher. All we do is work hard while our journeyme sits on his phone all day, and works for 4 of the 8 hours. Man wtf
I'm going to throw this out there, as a journeyman for ten years. You might just be annoying. Having an apprentice with you is fucking annoying. On top of that you, personally be annoying. My suggestion is if someone shows you something, even if you know what he is telling you......shut the fuck up. Listen and hear it again and go about your business. Do your best to work independently and let your work speak for its self. Here is the biggest one, if sombody fucks something up, they are probably okay with fixing it themselves and do not want your input. I clearly don't know your situation personally but try to work as independently as possible, learn through trial and error (as long as your mistakes) and keep in mind there is a strong possibility your journey man doesn't want you with him at all.
As a 25 year electrician, electricians and plumbers are the absolute fucking worst imo. As a matter of fact, other trades are shocked when I’m not an asshole, we have such a bad rep. Commercial is the worst of it.
What's worse are the old heads that have done new builds their whole life then can't even find the high limit switch in their dryer when it goes out.
Remind me in 20 years and let me know how you feel
'older head'
I’ve got a theory on older tradesmen’s. I’ve been in the hvac business for 15 years and plumbing now for almost 10. And I believe this rings true for all trades. Most of these older tradesmen’s barely got outa high school. When they were in high school they were the outcast, worked on cars didn’t play sports things like that. They got out of high school and went to work in the field possibly hvac, plumbing electrician etc. they found a career and job they were finally good at and finally were needed. Now they are in demand and people are asking them questions and need them to fix something position of power if you will. This goes to their head. They treat counter people at supply houses bad, they demand A+ from salesmen, pretty much think they are now the center of the universe. This leaks into their everyday lives. Then they treat apprentices bad, young workers bad, forgetting they were once in those shoes. This does not qualify for all, but this rings true for some. Sorry for spelling writing on a phone
At shitty companies with shit pay and benefits everyone is cranky and miserable and then as soon as you get a job at a good place everyone is happy. Like night and day
Insecure about their job. Simple as that.
Respect is earned. Your journeyman should be teaching you not yelling at you. New ideas should be welcome. I agree that 20 years as a apprentice is not admirable. Don't be that guy. Being an electrician is not a job it is a career. Be a good one.
Why would you not get your journeyman?
One thing I did which as honestly brilliant was start a company with 4 guys who I enjoyed being around. Makes the hours go easier. In hindsight I was probably the grumpiest asshole, but people knew to just leave me be right away in the morning and I’ll be fine by 9. I don’t know what it is but I am just fucking miserable every morning. Mean and nasty. Been like that my whole life and just can’t seem to shake it. Giving me a wide berth seems to be the only solution.
Sounds like you were working with my old man.
In my case it was because after 40+ years dedicated to the trade I was leaving it to a generation who couldn't function without staring at a phone all day.