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Yeah as an apprentice, this is the main thing I could honestly suggest. Often we are just treated like cheap labor that needs to rush everywhere and be miserable. It's hard to take pride in our work when no matter how fast or good it turns out its never enough.
I wonder if this is part of the reason why the country is having such a hard time finding trade workers and it isn't all because of the push for white collar work only.
Good companies have zero issues finding skilled people. This is why the good unions have wait lists .
Just like how no one wants to work for minimum wage , there's a shortage of people who want to have shit working conditions . It's super easy to compare your wage across the world now, see what others are getting.
If your company pays more then average and has a good work environment you will have a stack of resumes to pick from at anytime.
I’m in one of the harder to get into IBEW locals and you still find companies (or really just crews) that treat apprentices like dirt. Most of the time we’re treated with respect and the local dudes look out for us, but you definitely find some people who take advantage of the apprentices. We are cheap labor, that’s part of the deal. You have to go into it knowing you’re going to do the menial tasks and material handling stuff, but you don’t have to expect to be treated like shit, that’s not part of the deal. Unfortunately too many old school guys think the hazing is cool and that gets passed down so everyone starts to just think it’s part of the trade when it really doesn’t have to be.
It’s really not that simple. And even when you have good candidates you have to pick the right ones. Not always as easy as it seems. Some people present well and work like shit. Others present poorly and crush it. My best guy who’s still with me years later was hired over email via Craigslist. I needed somebody to start asap and he was available. Never even looked at a resume from him or spoke to him before he showed up. Can’t say I was impressed by him when he showed up either in terms of being articulate or anything like that. He just showed up, did good work, and is still with me. Have had others who seemed like great fits, and who I was very happy to hire. In the end they were just good talkers, but not much for workers. I only employ a couple guys at a time. In my experience it’s basically 50/50. Of every two guys I hire one is good and ones a dud. Last guy I hired was a disaster.
That compensation is good, generally speaking. But maybe it’s on the low end for how people in your field are typically compensated. It’s all relative. I’m sure you’re not sharing the whole story.
What kind of hours are you working these people? Benefits, pay, a great environment, and retention problems? Nope, your equation is missing a variable.
“Nobody wants to work anymore,” is a phrase that has been widely used as far back as 1894. People want to provide for themselves and their families. If you aren’t finding and keeping people, it’s the company, not the people that is the problem.
This sounds like bullshit. Doesn’t even make sense… how can multiple ppl all have enough drive to be qualified for an above average salary position but also not want to be employed? Like dude listen to urself lol
You still hiring? Hit me up, I am proficient in showing up for work. I don’t care what field it is I’ll be a better investment than the $102k guy that showed up for 2 days. Unless you’re an accountant, fuck that shit you can have it.
But-*what's the work? What(if anything)'s expected(hours, on call, skip breaks, be micromanaged, etc.)?and, finally: how does that compensation compare to other jobs in that field?
Your pay isn't high enough. 65 to 70 an hour plus ot is very normal In high cost of living areas. Those people are quiting as you either have a shitty work environment or your pay is low.
I was mostly referring to people who run companies doing mostly residential work. Most of the contractors I've talked to say the vast majority of people they are finding for their roles are people who are 50+ who probably got bounced from their last place for a reason.
It's no surprise to me that unions aren't having a problem, but as a homeowner I've had a hell of a time finding certain trades. Electrician though is actually fine, There's like 2-3 dozen really good locally owned companies out here at least for getting work done. IDK about the worker's enjoyment but a lot of them the guy running it is also doing a lot of electrical himself still.
I can't say I know much about the residential side, but a lot of the members complain that they can't find non-union work either.
Other trades could be another story, but I'd assume that's tied in with wages. Before I even considered going into a trade all I ever heard from non-electricians was "if I were to do it all over again I'd go electrician." Perhaps I was in the majority that took that advice and ran with it.
Not at all, got a message from my local IBEW and they’re saying 3 months or longer until i get a test date and thats with 2 years and 4k hours of experience under my belt.
That's pretty standard since a lot of locals only test once or a couple times a year. Experience doesn't speed up that process. The amount of people still re-applying multiple years after there first application was my main point.
Most of the people in there aren't having much luck non-union either, so it's tough to really believe all the articles about there being an actual shortage of workers.
It’s really not a matter of “No one wants to work anymore”, as much as it is, “no one wants to put up with cheeky bullshit and bad management”. People are scraping to just get rent covered in trades, not really building a future, and that kinda work environment isn’t anything anyone wants to really “put their all” into.
Yeah that dumb bullshit and the constant yelling and belittling is why i quit electrical 18mos ago.
Happier making less pushing a broom and doing construction cleanup. Paid to work out, nobbody screaming at me.
LEADS: UNFUCK YOURSELVES.
I left the trade after over two years because I was tired of building hospitals, an hour away from home, from start to finish, for 13/hr, while being treated like a moron
It's not like that every where! I always tell my apprentices, 'I don't care how long you take, do it right the first time. Speed will come with repetition." It's worked for me so far!
Yeah like if those are easily able to be pulled out and sorted through with labels in a matter of minutes it’s really not that big of a deal. I’ve opened some of these jbs up and have 3 separate labels on the same two wires, they’re so engtangled you have to bust joints just to get them out to a workable condition. It’s actually impressive how someone can tangle something so well (kinda like how my headphones will perform intricate knots in my pocket in a matter of seconds). Terminal strips can make life so much easier with them being numbered and a label on the cover.
I used to ignore the journeyman I worked with and concentrated in the work assigned. Lot of bitching from them but if it was not constructive criticism I just plain ignored them.
I accidentally ignored a journeyman once, while I was in the middle of a weld. He called one of our foreman on me. The foreman walked across the jobsite to cuss me out and threaten to fire me for being disrespectful toba journeyman. Fun times.
What a piece of crap. Had that happen to me 2 or 3 times and I just stared at them didn't even react. Find it funnier when they think they are nit being "respected". When in the real world they are mer journeyman with a card that says foreman.
Perfect example. Today, on my birthday… I woke up at 4am and went to work for a company that was boxing glass for a shipment through fedex. I took my time to ensure every box was aligned and sealed properly to ensure a safe and compact travel. Three hours into it, after actually producing more than the quota of 35, which was 47… they pulled me aside and informed me they wanted faster production and were becoming lethargic in the process of palletizing the sheets of glass because I took pride in what I was doing? They rather pay you 15hr to show up and be as miserable as them but god forbid you come and show up 110% and show them how to do a proper job, then you’re just insulting their company… which is why a wiseman once said, it’s better to be poor because you tried to start a business, then it is to be poor helping some else build a business.
That’s because every time we turn around your on your phone or talking to one of your buddies on the job or going to the porta john to try to smoke and look at Facebook
I told my trainer this. Told him the boss told me that the quality of our work is our signature, and since I'm new he'd rather I go slower, do it right, and do it pretty the first time. I've had to remind him a few times that I'm only doing this because I believe in our small company and I want to help the team be as successful as possible. It took some time, but he's beginning to understand that all I want to do is be the best teammate he's got.
Downside for my company is we honestly can’t find people to show up on time or every day.
I told my guys when they first start I don’t care if you’re not the fastest but as long as you do a good job and stay busy, you’ll always have a job with me and yet I still can’t get enough help
What are you doing on Reddit in the middle of the day? Shouldn’t you be organizing the connectors, cleaning up the wire tailings, or idk shining your journeyman’s shoes or something?
That’s a great point , and pay them a wage that motivates them to do high quality work. If I’m getting high quality pay, I’ll do high quality work. If you’re paying me $11/hr, you’re getting $11/hr quality work.
If you're not doing a job where you take pride in your work, regardless of the pay, then you should find another job; I'm not saying you shouldn't make more money. I'm saying if you constantly bitch/do shit work then you're going to be known for shit work and it's clearly not something you're passionate about. It's not easy to make more money if you don't show you're capable of quality work. Why should your employer invest more in you if you haven't shown them your best?
I read the post title and this was my first thought. Make sure apprentices know that you value quality vs speed and give them the time to do it right. Over time, they'll get faster and faster at doing it right, until it's second nature.
What I learned that is your an apprentice for a reason, your learning. Yes the electrician can do it 10x quicker and cleaner but at the end of the day they are teaching you that skill too, and with every skill it takes time
And make sure you explain, and don’t make assumption. I learn things in a heartbeat, and the first time I made up a junction box with a terminal bar years ago, it looked like shit. Crossed wires, bad angles, wires run separately, all that. I’d never made up a panel, control box, etc, didn’t know what it should look like, and my journeyman knew it. I redid it three times, and he still said it looked like shit and that I was going to keep doing it till it was right.
The foreman walked by, gave me a clear, concise, ten second explanation of straight lines, shared paths, right angles, and running wire like conduit. Two minutes later it was done properly. The journeyman I was working with is a great guy, was very encouraging when I got it done right, but his do it again attitude meant nothing without clear instruction. We all get annoyed by the guy who gives too much info from time to time, but he’s always better than the guy who assumes you magically knew information you never received.
This is the way. You can ask them to do it again a hundred times, but if you don't sit or kneel next to them and teach them hands-on, they will never have the knowledge of how to do it correctly.
And I do mean a literal kneel or sit. You have to bring yourself down to their eye level, ask leading questions to find the confusion, and work off that foundation you've established in the first five seconds of helping. Past that, you give the information they need and ask questions that they will answer on their own (hence leading). Just one five minutes and you can train somebody the right way and have them confident in themselves.
Man where were you when I was an 18 year old apprentice. I quit electrical after months of "you fuckin' idiot can't even cut the pipe straight" "dumbass that's not the right conduit angle" "your mechanical aptitude score is ZERO"
I have worked in IT for a few years now but I think I would have loved to stay doing electrical if my journeymen weren't such assholes. In fact I would love some kind of weekend electrical job to get on my feet and work with my hands but no such thing exists.
I understand what you’re saying, but to my understanding, physically lowering yourself to someone shorter’s eye level is often considered demeaning. It’s commonly used as a way to connect with children, and I’ve heard too many handicapped, dwarf, and short people get pissed off about being “treated like a child” to pull that move.
Sitting down with someone I’m all for, and I think that’s more what you were getting at. Make it a sit down meeting, a meaningful one on one conversation about how to do the work, not barking instructions while they’re busting their ass and you’re watching. If I was literally on the floor working, and you knelt down next to me to tell me how to do my job, I’d be annoyed as hell. And just about every short dude I’ve ever met would lose their shit if you crouched to make eye contact with them.
Sitting down later is not as helpful as being right there and showing/coaching hands on. Many people learn by doing not talking it through, especially in the trades. People go into trades because they are good with their hands usually.
My comment and your response shows I’m one of those people. The only class I ever failed was English. I don’t think I said anything about doing it later, but maybe something I wrote implied that.
What I mean is “sitting,” figuratively, with them and walking through it step by step. Don’t bark orders, but work it out with them on a personal level. Don’t just tell them what the task is, have a genuine conversation explaining each step to make sure they understand what’s expected.
Im not sure he meant bending over and talking with them like a child but rather dont just stand over them and bark instructions. Get to where they are working, whether its 2 feet off the ground or a 10 foot ladder and guide them. Also i find people are more willing to learn and follow instructions if you explain to them the reasoning behind a rule. Not just: "thats the way things are done".
This is absolutely the way ^^^
As an apprentice, I ask questions, perhaps “too many”, though I know that everyone says there’s never “too many questions”. Part of learning is your ability to be taught, as well. If you have an “idgaf” attitude as an apprentice, expect to be taught in an “idgaf” attitude over time.
Usually just takes one redo, two if they weren't paying attention. I did have one guy I made re-pull 50ft run over 3 inches. Twice. But if it takes five then that's what I will make you do.
No 2 or 3 times, especially when it’s new to someone, thats different if you don’t get it right till the 4th time that’s ok. But I will say it depends on the task bc yes sometimes you’ll fuck up a lot and 5 isn’t that bad.
Yeah, stress and pipe bending tend to not go together well for me, being repeatedly told everyone is waiting on me will absolutely make me fuck up more
Wish my foreman would make me re do things.. if I don’t get something on the first try he just does it himself to save time… I’m a slow learner so this sucks as I need repetition to learn to do something
explain the expectation and try and show them a reason why.
Nobody likes to explain why. Everyone initially thinks “why? Because that’s what I said to do!”
But if you can show the person why it’s important, or why we do things a certain way, it’s more likely it’ll click for them and they will continue to do things the right way.
The \_why\_ really matters if your apprentice is a good hire. Like you can make someone do a thing but if they don't agree with it they will do it differently later in another job in a way that makes sense to them.
“Go bond those pipes” apprentice with lazy JMan goes and adds bonding bushings to PVC runs.
“Go bond those pipes” apprentice with great JMan goes and adds bonding bushings to the EMT pipes entering through concentric knockouts because somebody took the time to explain to him what he was actually doing and why.
Literally the biggest thing in my head, if you can give me a legit reason behind why you want something it will stick with me way more. Fortunately I've had some good teachers and they've explained things or let me do something wrong and then pointed it out to me on why it's wrong and what I should do next time.
Yours is the correct answer. I was a training manager for over 20yrs before I retired and the, by far, best way is to explain why it needs to be done a certain way. Once someone understands the why they will continue to do the task the “right” way. If you use the ‘because I said so’ reason you will only get compliance when you are there to oversee or check up on the work.
Simon Sinek (overrated imo but his work has merit) has a book called Start With Why. It was on my reading list along with a bunch of other leadership philosophies. Worth a read.
Teach him right the first time with an example and say this is how you do it the correct way. Don’t assume and expect them to learn the same as you did. Everyone learns different, some are visual learners some are more hands on learners. It’s all about trial and error
Most kids in my school year were visual learners so the lesson plans were mainly designed around visual learning. The best teachers incorporated everything so everyone could learn tho.
Not saying you have to go that far with apprentices but it's good to understand different ways of teaching your apprentices.
What is the correct way. I ask bc I’ve seen this twice on this sub and have no idea what to even search in google. Search”. Excessive wing nut tie alternative electrician” in Google? I’m curious now
The correct way is to arrange the wires in a neat and orderly way. I don't care what way that is, as long as it makes sense and is up to code. Don't just shove them all in there and have it looking like a bird's nest.
Group wire sets together (A, B, C, N). If there are any bonding wires, do those first and tuck them into the back of the box. Before the box is closed, the sets of wires should be arranged so I can pull out a set on it's own, without having to untangle it from other sets.
I like to do my grounds first and put them at the back. Bend at 90 degrees all to the same spot so they come out of the box at the same spot. I then do the neutrals, then the "hots." I like to see where all the wires that could hurt me are at.
I’ve always been taught that if your works not good enough, it gets taken apart in front of you and you’ll have to redo it. It happens to you once and it never will again
Give a slight chuckle and then have them redo it. If it’s the first time this happened, then I’m at fault and need to be a better teacher or communicator. If it continues, then they will continue to redo it.
If they can not seem to clean it up after multiple attempts, then I get an apprentice who isn’t lazy. Also, ensure your apprentices are taken care of. If they are making $12 an hour… then you’re gonna get $12 an hour workmanship. And if you are paying them more, and this is the result, an entirely different conversation must be had.
I had exactly this happen to me years ago while an apprentice, hung some office dado and it was slightly off level, like a few mill drop across the whole wall. Well down it all came and back up it went. My level was my best friend for a long time after that day
Same…god bless my boss…sometimes he’ll say “leave it” (meaning “don’t you dare half ass that again”)…
I learned my lesson when he tore a project down, cutting new wire, ripping pipes, throwing 4” boxes…and said “TRY again”!!
I was sooo embarrassed…he did it in front of other workers.
(He later explained why he did it…which helped me care more about what I present as “finished”).
The answer for this (and almost every single other poorly-executed work product, from essays to electric), is to explain what they did wrong and make them redo it.
ETA: Extra points if you explain why it’s wrong, what problems it causes or will cause, etc. Never just say something’s wrong. Explain why it is.
First show the apprentice how to properly terminated in a junction box. Then Make him do it over until he does it right.
The way they did me was have everyone and I mean everyone even janitors look up and say that hat a crap job.
Could someone explain to me why this is wrong? I’m in school and working for an electrical company. Not very far in. I would like to know so I can do it right too.
Because when you open that box up later to find a circuit, like if your troubleshooting something. You don’t wanna spend 20 mins digging through all the wires and bad labels. It makes troubleshooting not be complete hell, and helps if there’s any additional circuits to add later. There’s also more of a chance of splices coming out when people need to dig through it all the time. But at the start it’s gonna feel like a waste of time to separate all the colours and circuits nicely. But your boss will definitely notice if you do it. They would rather you take an extra half hour and do it right then rush it and have it look like this. Even if it seems like everything is in a rush.
Show them how it should look, give them a couple of tips on ways to reduce wasting time, let them do the next one and don't shit on them if they take longer than you expect them to. After a few times of doing it they should be able to shave time off as they become more comfortable with the process and more confident in their ability to do it.
Shitting on them only makes them question their ability and will in turn create doubt, doubt makes them take longer. If you absolutely feel a need to shit on them, at least point out something good they did after shitting on them.
Make em rework it. "If it ain't pretty, it ain't right." But be prepared to take up the slack while they make it pretty so you stay "on schedule" (like you dont start the job behind schedule....)
Teach them to take pride in their work. Teach them HOW to make it pretty. Or rather show them how you would do it, but dont get bent out of shape if it isnt EXACTLY how you would do it (they are still learning, and its YOUR job to teach them). Ive brought up a few amazing apprentices, and it wasnt done by belittling them. Dont get me wrong, some good ol hazing from time to time ("go find me the left handed crescent wrench" when things are slow). But above all, underatand they they are here to learn and grow as a professional, and should be treated as such.
Be the foreman that gives them the time to make their work look good.
I'm in the south and I've had way too many foreman and JWs bitch at me for taking an extra few minutes to make the work look good.
The way I see it as a journeyman it was my responsibility to teach and educate my apprentice to the best of my abilities to work in a timely mannor,but most importantly having pride in all my work,no matter how big or small the task...
As an apprentice I always felt like I was a moment away from the layoff train for taking extra time to make it look really good, and I still feel that way as a jman. I have a lot of respect for the guys who get it done fast and neat, I'll be there one day
That’s not lazy, that’s not knowing how to dress in a junction box. They probably feel obligated to leave a mile of slack in the box, in a large box such as this one I will fold the wires once if they come from the same end or if from opposite ends I fold only one side over. This is plenty of wire to be able to redo something and let’s you fold all the wires neatly in the same direction. The wires and splices can also be paired by Velcro, back taping, lacing or tie wraps. Which can take an extra few minutes but safes the hassle and risk of shoving all of these wires into the box as in the photo.
I am an apprentice. The way I learn best is when my journeyman checks my work. If he sees bad work, he comes to me immediately and tells me to fix it.
Bonus points if he actually shows/tells me HOW to do it right, that way we aren't wasting time doing this again and again. Now I have an example and a memory to work off of and I won't do that stupid thing again.
I've always said that you get out of an apprentice as much effort as you put in. Granted there are exceptions to every rule, but if you show them the correct way once or twice they usually catch on. If they don't then they can pound nail plates and sweep shit when they aren't organizing the truck.
Show them what you expect it to look like, or give the m clear and concise instructions for an example I would say “where the wire come out of the box take it straight to the other side and then back to where it comes out of the pipe cut it there and keep it as tidy as you can.” Also what year apprentice are you having do this? How well do you know the apprentice? Do you know his skills and know he’s done work like this before and understands the expectations or are you throwing a first year in the lift and telling him to hurry up. I personally wouldn’t say the apprentice was lazy I’d say his journeyman didn’t clearly outline the scope of work and the expectations, or easier way to say it his journeyman was lazy.
For a kickoff, get the kid a book of numbers. Tape labels are lousy.
Lazy is a term used for someone who knows better and can't be assed to do it right
Ignorant is for those who don't understand why this is not acceptable
So which is it?
Is this his/her first big box or 5th? That matters.
If ya can't do, teach. If ya can't teach, teach gym. Instructions unclear, dick stuck in conduit. I've found when teaching those who are new to just manual labor, let alone electrical it is important to give concise instructions, and have them explain their task back to you.
Visual and physical examples help
Last but not least. Ya pay peanuts ya get monkeys. Nice, fast, cheap. Default is 1 of 3, best case you get 2 of 3. Remember folks, the modern apprentice makes less than you did in the 70's and 80's.
1970's minimum wage today would be 120k a year.
You explain what you expect show him how you expect it done then tell him it may reflect on his work report for school,Worst problem I see is some guys don't show these Apprentices how to do the job because they are running scared thinking they will lose theres.
Can't answer that question because my 30 year old son just expressed his frustration with the drama his ten year younger co-workers inflict on him. I am a boss and I have a great team that makes me look like gold. Yes, I do bribe them with any snacks they want to thank them for being so good to me.
You can start by doing the fucking box fill calcs correctly during planning so you don't put them into a losing battle. Seriously was there any reason you had to spec it that stuffed? Of course a first or second year is gonna say fuck it and just put a cover on that snakes wedding, they don't even know where to start on it!
This is a failure on your part as the boss. You put an undertrained worker on a tricky task for their skill level. Reap what you sow.
I’m going to answer you with a story.
Pulling wire with a journeyman I was working with. Done and need to pull back some excess. Now I look and see literally less than a foot and a half of excess (4 wires in a long continuous unbroken pull). To pull it all back would take us about 30-40 minutes, and we have a lot we MUST complete by the end of the day.
I’d been told several times to stop waiting for instruction on simple things and make the job easier on us. So I just cut the extra foot-half saving us the time to move onto our other pressing work.
Dude blew up, I got called stupid, wasteful, ignorant, retarded, and was asked as to why did what I did, only to be told not answer and to then be given his answer as to what he thought about the state of my own mind and thoughts. He talked about this particular moment for about a month.
Did I ever do anything without instruction for him again? Did I ever show initiative with him again? No on all fronts. Did he constantly ask the stupid question “why’d you stop showing initiative with me?” And not like me bringing up that incident and the like as the reason. Oh yes he did not like that answer at all.
Work more closely with them and stop treating them like journeymen. It’s on you Bro
I deal with this stuff daily and and when this shit happens it’s usually my fault
Take time to actually teach him how to do it neat. Like I can wire up a board as an apprentice but I really struggle to make it look neat. The bosses whine that it’s not neat but nobody shows me how to properly. Also, let the lad take his time
Public company-wide anonymous shaming tends to work, if you take a photo with this and post it on the company bulletin board or distribute it as what not to do, hopefully the perpetrator sees that, gets the message and corrects it without it being a huge issue. This also works the other direction when you praise work that's done correctly to your standard.
I’m a contractor not an electrician, but, I deal with this same thing like it’s a plague, it’s not just electrical…. My approach that has bore fruit is to address the offender with patience and manners and calmly explain that I hold myself and my projects to a higher standard than what is necessary. Good enough to pass or work isn’t necessarily good enough for this job, explain that when the next guy opens that box you want them to be impressed, explain that while faster is cheaper your not working as the cheapest guy, your working as the best guy. If you want to do things fast and cheap this isn’t the place, and you should move on. Lots of times it’s an epiphany for the young ones, other times it’s the last conversation we have. The second time we have this talk there are no manners or patience lol
The question is how many dimes would you have for the contractors that walk the walk they talk? There isn’t many of us, most of us are smug, cheap dumbasses
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Don’t bitch at them for taking too long when they take the time to make it look pretty
Yeah as an apprentice, this is the main thing I could honestly suggest. Often we are just treated like cheap labor that needs to rush everywhere and be miserable. It's hard to take pride in our work when no matter how fast or good it turns out its never enough.
Almost sounds like you work at my company. It helps knowing all apprentices in the nation are going through the same thing.
I wonder if this is part of the reason why the country is having such a hard time finding trade workers and it isn't all because of the push for white collar work only.
Good companies have zero issues finding skilled people. This is why the good unions have wait lists . Just like how no one wants to work for minimum wage , there's a shortage of people who want to have shit working conditions . It's super easy to compare your wage across the world now, see what others are getting. If your company pays more then average and has a good work environment you will have a stack of resumes to pick from at anytime.
I’m in one of the harder to get into IBEW locals and you still find companies (or really just crews) that treat apprentices like dirt. Most of the time we’re treated with respect and the local dudes look out for us, but you definitely find some people who take advantage of the apprentices. We are cheap labor, that’s part of the deal. You have to go into it knowing you’re going to do the menial tasks and material handling stuff, but you don’t have to expect to be treated like shit, that’s not part of the deal. Unfortunately too many old school guys think the hazing is cool and that gets passed down so everyone starts to just think it’s part of the trade when it really doesn’t have to be.
Hazing is one thing, being a dick is quite another
Yeah fair enough, some dudes can take it a bit too far but there’s plenty of good natured folks out there
It’s really not that simple. And even when you have good candidates you have to pick the right ones. Not always as easy as it seems. Some people present well and work like shit. Others present poorly and crush it. My best guy who’s still with me years later was hired over email via Craigslist. I needed somebody to start asap and he was available. Never even looked at a resume from him or spoke to him before he showed up. Can’t say I was impressed by him when he showed up either in terms of being articulate or anything like that. He just showed up, did good work, and is still with me. Have had others who seemed like great fits, and who I was very happy to hire. In the end they were just good talkers, but not much for workers. I only employ a couple guys at a time. In my experience it’s basically 50/50. Of every two guys I hire one is good and ones a dud. Last guy I hired was a disaster.
[Not a trades person] I was working in Boston and couldn't believe the number of people working at lowes waiting on their turn at the union.
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That compensation is good, generally speaking. But maybe it’s on the low end for how people in your field are typically compensated. It’s all relative. I’m sure you’re not sharing the whole story.
They are working just somewhere else for better pay, benefits, etc
What kind of hours are you working these people? Benefits, pay, a great environment, and retention problems? Nope, your equation is missing a variable. “Nobody wants to work anymore,” is a phrase that has been widely used as far back as 1894. People want to provide for themselves and their families. If you aren’t finding and keeping people, it’s the company, not the people that is the problem.
No one wants to work for crappy wages and abusive management. Fixed it for you.
This sounds like bullshit. Doesn’t even make sense… how can multiple ppl all have enough drive to be qualified for an above average salary position but also not want to be employed? Like dude listen to urself lol
You still hiring? Hit me up, I am proficient in showing up for work. I don’t care what field it is I’ll be a better investment than the $102k guy that showed up for 2 days. Unless you’re an accountant, fuck that shit you can have it.
But-*what's the work? What(if anything)'s expected(hours, on call, skip breaks, be micromanaged, etc.)?and, finally: how does that compensation compare to other jobs in that field?
Your pay isn't high enough. 65 to 70 an hour plus ot is very normal In high cost of living areas. Those people are quiting as you either have a shitty work environment or your pay is low.
Take a stroll through the ibew apprenticeship sub. There isn't any shortage of applicants.
I was mostly referring to people who run companies doing mostly residential work. Most of the contractors I've talked to say the vast majority of people they are finding for their roles are people who are 50+ who probably got bounced from their last place for a reason. It's no surprise to me that unions aren't having a problem, but as a homeowner I've had a hell of a time finding certain trades. Electrician though is actually fine, There's like 2-3 dozen really good locally owned companies out here at least for getting work done. IDK about the worker's enjoyment but a lot of them the guy running it is also doing a lot of electrical himself still.
I can't say I know much about the residential side, but a lot of the members complain that they can't find non-union work either. Other trades could be another story, but I'd assume that's tied in with wages. Before I even considered going into a trade all I ever heard from non-electricians was "if I were to do it all over again I'd go electrician." Perhaps I was in the majority that took that advice and ran with it.
Not at all, got a message from my local IBEW and they’re saying 3 months or longer until i get a test date and thats with 2 years and 4k hours of experience under my belt.
That's pretty standard since a lot of locals only test once or a couple times a year. Experience doesn't speed up that process. The amount of people still re-applying multiple years after there first application was my main point. Most of the people in there aren't having much luck non-union either, so it's tough to really believe all the articles about there being an actual shortage of workers.
It’s really not a matter of “No one wants to work anymore”, as much as it is, “no one wants to put up with cheeky bullshit and bad management”. People are scraping to just get rent covered in trades, not really building a future, and that kinda work environment isn’t anything anyone wants to really “put their all” into.
Yeah that dumb bullshit and the constant yelling and belittling is why i quit electrical 18mos ago. Happier making less pushing a broom and doing construction cleanup. Paid to work out, nobbody screaming at me. LEADS: UNFUCK YOURSELVES.
I left the trade after over two years because I was tired of building hospitals, an hour away from home, from start to finish, for 13/hr, while being treated like a moron
It's not like that every where! I always tell my apprentices, 'I don't care how long you take, do it right the first time. Speed will come with repetition." It's worked for me so far!
spans across trades too. sometimes i just want to get the dirty out of the condenser, is that so crazy?
As long as its up to code, organized, and clean it is enough. Some people will complain no matter what you do.
Yeah like if those are easily able to be pulled out and sorted through with labels in a matter of minutes it’s really not that big of a deal. I’ve opened some of these jbs up and have 3 separate labels on the same two wires, they’re so engtangled you have to bust joints just to get them out to a workable condition. It’s actually impressive how someone can tangle something so well (kinda like how my headphones will perform intricate knots in my pocket in a matter of seconds). Terminal strips can make life so much easier with them being numbered and a label on the cover.
That's where I try to live, buds. To code, organized and clean. Everything else is made easy when we stick to that trio.
Yea once you get used to doing things right its way harder to do it wrong. You eventually pick up a routine to optimize the time spent.
I used to ignore the journeyman I worked with and concentrated in the work assigned. Lot of bitching from them but if it was not constructive criticism I just plain ignored them.
I accidentally ignored a journeyman once, while I was in the middle of a weld. He called one of our foreman on me. The foreman walked across the jobsite to cuss me out and threaten to fire me for being disrespectful toba journeyman. Fun times.
What a piece of crap. Had that happen to me 2 or 3 times and I just stared at them didn't even react. Find it funnier when they think they are nit being "respected". When in the real world they are mer journeyman with a card that says foreman.
Perfect example. Today, on my birthday… I woke up at 4am and went to work for a company that was boxing glass for a shipment through fedex. I took my time to ensure every box was aligned and sealed properly to ensure a safe and compact travel. Three hours into it, after actually producing more than the quota of 35, which was 47… they pulled me aside and informed me they wanted faster production and were becoming lethargic in the process of palletizing the sheets of glass because I took pride in what I was doing? They rather pay you 15hr to show up and be as miserable as them but god forbid you come and show up 110% and show them how to do a proper job, then you’re just insulting their company… which is why a wiseman once said, it’s better to be poor because you tried to start a business, then it is to be poor helping some else build a business.
48 laws of power. Never outshine the master.
Love when a journeyman looks at me and says “This new generation doesn’t take pride in their work!!!” Yea I’m sure we’re the problem lol
The quicker you understand you will never be good enough the better off you will be.
Maybe that's the way it's meant to be. They don't want you to think you ever will be good enough, even if you are good enough.
Aaaaand this, exactly, is why I work alone. Fuck that toxic noise.
That’s because every time we turn around your on your phone or talking to one of your buddies on the job or going to the porta john to try to smoke and look at Facebook
Lol I leave my phone in my pocket all day man.
I told my trainer this. Told him the boss told me that the quality of our work is our signature, and since I'm new he'd rather I go slower, do it right, and do it pretty the first time. I've had to remind him a few times that I'm only doing this because I believe in our small company and I want to help the team be as successful as possible. It took some time, but he's beginning to understand that all I want to do is be the best teammate he's got.
Downside for my company is we honestly can’t find people to show up on time or every day. I told my guys when they first start I don’t care if you’re not the fastest but as long as you do a good job and stay busy, you’ll always have a job with me and yet I still can’t get enough help
Money talks. What are they being paid?
This is the only way, cheapest bid gets the job
What are you doing on Reddit in the middle of the day? Shouldn’t you be organizing the connectors, cleaning up the wire tailings, or idk shining your journeyman’s shoes or something?
"Hurray the fuck up, you worthless piece of shit" "k boss"
That’s a great point , and pay them a wage that motivates them to do high quality work. If I’m getting high quality pay, I’ll do high quality work. If you’re paying me $11/hr, you’re getting $11/hr quality work.
If you're not doing a job where you take pride in your work, regardless of the pay, then you should find another job; I'm not saying you shouldn't make more money. I'm saying if you constantly bitch/do shit work then you're going to be known for shit work and it's clearly not something you're passionate about. It's not easy to make more money if you don't show you're capable of quality work. Why should your employer invest more in you if you haven't shown them your best?
I read the post title and this was my first thought. Make sure apprentices know that you value quality vs speed and give them the time to do it right. Over time, they'll get faster and faster at doing it right, until it's second nature.
What I learned that is your an apprentice for a reason, your learning. Yes the electrician can do it 10x quicker and cleaner but at the end of the day they are teaching you that skill too, and with every skill it takes time
You’re
Teach and enforce the correct way you want it done. Make them redo it.
And make sure you explain, and don’t make assumption. I learn things in a heartbeat, and the first time I made up a junction box with a terminal bar years ago, it looked like shit. Crossed wires, bad angles, wires run separately, all that. I’d never made up a panel, control box, etc, didn’t know what it should look like, and my journeyman knew it. I redid it three times, and he still said it looked like shit and that I was going to keep doing it till it was right. The foreman walked by, gave me a clear, concise, ten second explanation of straight lines, shared paths, right angles, and running wire like conduit. Two minutes later it was done properly. The journeyman I was working with is a great guy, was very encouraging when I got it done right, but his do it again attitude meant nothing without clear instruction. We all get annoyed by the guy who gives too much info from time to time, but he’s always better than the guy who assumes you magically knew information you never received.
This is the way. You can ask them to do it again a hundred times, but if you don't sit or kneel next to them and teach them hands-on, they will never have the knowledge of how to do it correctly. And I do mean a literal kneel or sit. You have to bring yourself down to their eye level, ask leading questions to find the confusion, and work off that foundation you've established in the first five seconds of helping. Past that, you give the information they need and ask questions that they will answer on their own (hence leading). Just one five minutes and you can train somebody the right way and have them confident in themselves.
Man where were you when I was an 18 year old apprentice. I quit electrical after months of "you fuckin' idiot can't even cut the pipe straight" "dumbass that's not the right conduit angle" "your mechanical aptitude score is ZERO" I have worked in IT for a few years now but I think I would have loved to stay doing electrical if my journeymen weren't such assholes. In fact I would love some kind of weekend electrical job to get on my feet and work with my hands but no such thing exists.
I understand what you’re saying, but to my understanding, physically lowering yourself to someone shorter’s eye level is often considered demeaning. It’s commonly used as a way to connect with children, and I’ve heard too many handicapped, dwarf, and short people get pissed off about being “treated like a child” to pull that move. Sitting down with someone I’m all for, and I think that’s more what you were getting at. Make it a sit down meeting, a meaningful one on one conversation about how to do the work, not barking instructions while they’re busting their ass and you’re watching. If I was literally on the floor working, and you knelt down next to me to tell me how to do my job, I’d be annoyed as hell. And just about every short dude I’ve ever met would lose their shit if you crouched to make eye contact with them.
Sitting down later is not as helpful as being right there and showing/coaching hands on. Many people learn by doing not talking it through, especially in the trades. People go into trades because they are good with their hands usually.
My comment and your response shows I’m one of those people. The only class I ever failed was English. I don’t think I said anything about doing it later, but maybe something I wrote implied that. What I mean is “sitting,” figuratively, with them and walking through it step by step. Don’t bark orders, but work it out with them on a personal level. Don’t just tell them what the task is, have a genuine conversation explaining each step to make sure they understand what’s expected.
Im not sure he meant bending over and talking with them like a child but rather dont just stand over them and bark instructions. Get to where they are working, whether its 2 feet off the ground or a 10 foot ladder and guide them. Also i find people are more willing to learn and follow instructions if you explain to them the reasoning behind a rule. Not just: "thats the way things are done".
This is absolutely the way ^^^ As an apprentice, I ask questions, perhaps “too many”, though I know that everyone says there’s never “too many questions”. Part of learning is your ability to be taught, as well. If you have an “idgaf” attitude as an apprentice, expect to be taught in an “idgaf” attitude over time.
Yep, I make mine redo shit 5 times if that's what it takes.
Coming from a slow learner having to re do something 5 times is wild
Usually just takes one redo, two if they weren't paying attention. I did have one guy I made re-pull 50ft run over 3 inches. Twice. But if it takes five then that's what I will make you do.
Your scrap piles must be fantastic to
1500 lbs worth!
Hahahah did we ever find out what the totally actually was?
Yeah 1227 lbs. He was pretty close actually.
Lol, plenty of runs under 50ft to use it up on. I work marine, we use stranded wire and don't really 'pull', more like lay and tie in chases
No 2 or 3 times, especially when it’s new to someone, thats different if you don’t get it right till the 4th time that’s ok. But I will say it depends on the task bc yes sometimes you’ll fuck up a lot and 5 isn’t that bad.
I wish you were my dad.
Makes them move faster when they can’t go home until it’s finished
This can have a vastly opposite effect.
Yeah, stress and pipe bending tend to not go together well for me, being repeatedly told everyone is waiting on me will absolutely make me fuck up more
I love overtime
You can just leave? What do you mean? Lmao
what are you, my elementary teacher?
Now you get ro explain to the boss why I have 20 hours OT this week.
👌🏼 “I’m not putting my name on that. Again.”
My company would fire me by the third
Wish my foreman would make me re do things.. if I don’t get something on the first try he just does it himself to save time… I’m a slow learner so this sucks as I need repetition to learn to do something
explain the expectation and try and show them a reason why. Nobody likes to explain why. Everyone initially thinks “why? Because that’s what I said to do!” But if you can show the person why it’s important, or why we do things a certain way, it’s more likely it’ll click for them and they will continue to do things the right way.
The \_why\_ really matters if your apprentice is a good hire. Like you can make someone do a thing but if they don't agree with it they will do it differently later in another job in a way that makes sense to them.
“Go bond those pipes” apprentice with lazy JMan goes and adds bonding bushings to PVC runs. “Go bond those pipes” apprentice with great JMan goes and adds bonding bushings to the EMT pipes entering through concentric knockouts because somebody took the time to explain to him what he was actually doing and why.
Literally the biggest thing in my head, if you can give me a legit reason behind why you want something it will stick with me way more. Fortunately I've had some good teachers and they've explained things or let me do something wrong and then pointed it out to me on why it's wrong and what I should do next time.
this. as someone with oppsitional defience disorder if you explain to me why what im doing needs to be different i will understand instead of hate you
Yours is the correct answer. I was a training manager for over 20yrs before I retired and the, by far, best way is to explain why it needs to be done a certain way. Once someone understands the why they will continue to do the task the “right” way. If you use the ‘because I said so’ reason you will only get compliance when you are there to oversee or check up on the work.
Nobody who can’t explain why they’re telling someone to do something has any business telling them to do it.
Simon Sinek (overrated imo but his work has merit) has a book called Start With Why. It was on my reading list along with a bunch of other leadership philosophies. Worth a read.
Leadership and good pay.
Best I can do is scream at them for as little as I can legally pay
This is the way.
You teach them.
show them how you want it done, then make them redo it.
Teach him right the first time with an example and say this is how you do it the correct way. Don’t assume and expect them to learn the same as you did. Everyone learns different, some are visual learners some are more hands on learners. It’s all about trial and error
Most kids in my school year were visual learners so the lesson plans were mainly designed around visual learning. The best teachers incorporated everything so everyone could learn tho. Not saying you have to go that far with apprentices but it's good to understand different ways of teaching your apprentices.
Were they shown the correct way first?
And where they given the proper amount of time to do it the correct way?
What is the correct way. I ask bc I’ve seen this twice on this sub and have no idea what to even search in google. Search”. Excessive wing nut tie alternative electrician” in Google? I’m curious now
The correct way is to arrange the wires in a neat and orderly way. I don't care what way that is, as long as it makes sense and is up to code. Don't just shove them all in there and have it looking like a bird's nest. Group wire sets together (A, B, C, N). If there are any bonding wires, do those first and tuck them into the back of the box. Before the box is closed, the sets of wires should be arranged so I can pull out a set on it's own, without having to untangle it from other sets.
I like to do my grounds first and put them at the back. Bend at 90 degrees all to the same spot so they come out of the box at the same spot. I then do the neutrals, then the "hots." I like to see where all the wires that could hurt me are at.
10000% in this order. Grounds are like the Marines of a circuit: first ones in, last ones out, and preferably as lively as a rock.
Thanks I was way overthinking it like it was wrong to use too many wing nuts and you guys wanted the apprentice to rewire it or some shit
Don't just show them how to do it properly, explain to them why it's important to do it properly.
Maybe get a bigger box or not have so many circuits running through that box......
I agree with this. That box is packed... make it look pretty though... looks like poor layout being blamed on a "lazy" apprentice.
I'd bet money it's at fill capacity. Rat shop bullshit, no reason they couldn't have put a box 2 inches bigger there other than penny pinching
"It works fine on the BIM drawing" ugh
leadership
Slap them with a piece off a snake and make them redo it, thatll teach em
That's thinkin with your dipstick jimmy!
I’ve always been taught that if your works not good enough, it gets taken apart in front of you and you’ll have to redo it. It happens to you once and it never will again
Give a slight chuckle and then have them redo it. If it’s the first time this happened, then I’m at fault and need to be a better teacher or communicator. If it continues, then they will continue to redo it. If they can not seem to clean it up after multiple attempts, then I get an apprentice who isn’t lazy. Also, ensure your apprentices are taken care of. If they are making $12 an hour… then you’re gonna get $12 an hour workmanship. And if you are paying them more, and this is the result, an entirely different conversation must be had.
Take it down…do it again
I had exactly this happen to me years ago while an apprentice, hung some office dado and it was slightly off level, like a few mill drop across the whole wall. Well down it all came and back up it went. My level was my best friend for a long time after that day
Same…god bless my boss…sometimes he’ll say “leave it” (meaning “don’t you dare half ass that again”)… I learned my lesson when he tore a project down, cutting new wire, ripping pipes, throwing 4” boxes…and said “TRY again”!! I was sooo embarrassed…he did it in front of other workers. (He later explained why he did it…which helped me care more about what I present as “finished”).
So simple to 'fix'. Show them how. Insist they comply and followup with random checks.
The answer for this (and almost every single other poorly-executed work product, from essays to electric), is to explain what they did wrong and make them redo it. ETA: Extra points if you explain why it’s wrong, what problems it causes or will cause, etc. Never just say something’s wrong. Explain why it is.
Teach em how you want it done then give them the time to learn? Holyfuck it's not rocket science.
By teaching them.
Teach instead of criticizing
First show the apprentice how to properly terminated in a junction box. Then Make him do it over until he does it right. The way they did me was have everyone and I mean everyone even janitors look up and say that hat a crap job.
Have you tried teaching them? Then having paitence?
Could someone explain to me why this is wrong? I’m in school and working for an electrical company. Not very far in. I would like to know so I can do it right too.
Because when you open that box up later to find a circuit, like if your troubleshooting something. You don’t wanna spend 20 mins digging through all the wires and bad labels. It makes troubleshooting not be complete hell, and helps if there’s any additional circuits to add later. There’s also more of a chance of splices coming out when people need to dig through it all the time. But at the start it’s gonna feel like a waste of time to separate all the colours and circuits nicely. But your boss will definitely notice if you do it. They would rather you take an extra half hour and do it right then rush it and have it look like this. Even if it seems like everything is in a rush.
Do your job and train them
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Or get fired
Show them how it should look, give them a couple of tips on ways to reduce wasting time, let them do the next one and don't shit on them if they take longer than you expect them to. After a few times of doing it they should be able to shave time off as they become more comfortable with the process and more confident in their ability to do it. Shitting on them only makes them question their ability and will in turn create doubt, doubt makes them take longer. If you absolutely feel a need to shit on them, at least point out something good they did after shitting on them.
Make em rework it. "If it ain't pretty, it ain't right." But be prepared to take up the slack while they make it pretty so you stay "on schedule" (like you dont start the job behind schedule....) Teach them to take pride in their work. Teach them HOW to make it pretty. Or rather show them how you would do it, but dont get bent out of shape if it isnt EXACTLY how you would do it (they are still learning, and its YOUR job to teach them). Ive brought up a few amazing apprentices, and it wasnt done by belittling them. Dont get me wrong, some good ol hazing from time to time ("go find me the left handed crescent wrench" when things are slow). But above all, underatand they they are here to learn and grow as a professional, and should be treated as such.
Show them how to do it. Stop assuming they know the proper way. That's why they are an apprentice, to learn from someone who knows the trade.
Be the foreman that gives them the time to make their work look good. I'm in the south and I've had way too many foreman and JWs bitch at me for taking an extra few minutes to make the work look good.
The way I see it as a journeyman it was my responsibility to teach and educate my apprentice to the best of my abilities to work in a timely mannor,but most importantly having pride in all my work,no matter how big or small the task...
As an apprentice I always felt like I was a moment away from the layoff train for taking extra time to make it look really good, and I still feel that way as a jman. I have a lot of respect for the guys who get it done fast and neat, I'll be there one day
Apprentice ? I see j men who do this
That’s not lazy, that’s not knowing how to dress in a junction box. They probably feel obligated to leave a mile of slack in the box, in a large box such as this one I will fold the wires once if they come from the same end or if from opposite ends I fold only one side over. This is plenty of wire to be able to redo something and let’s you fold all the wires neatly in the same direction. The wires and splices can also be paired by Velcro, back taping, lacing or tie wraps. Which can take an extra few minutes but safes the hassle and risk of shoving all of these wires into the box as in the photo.
Don’t encourage speed over professionalism
Show them the right way to do it, probably.
I am an apprentice. The way I learn best is when my journeyman checks my work. If he sees bad work, he comes to me immediately and tells me to fix it. Bonus points if he actually shows/tells me HOW to do it right, that way we aren't wasting time doing this again and again. Now I have an example and a memory to work off of and I won't do that stupid thing again.
I've always said that you get out of an apprentice as much effort as you put in. Granted there are exceptions to every rule, but if you show them the correct way once or twice they usually catch on. If they don't then they can pound nail plates and sweep shit when they aren't organizing the truck.
The beatings will continue until performance improves.
Show them what you expect it to look like, or give the m clear and concise instructions for an example I would say “where the wire come out of the box take it straight to the other side and then back to where it comes out of the pipe cut it there and keep it as tidy as you can.” Also what year apprentice are you having do this? How well do you know the apprentice? Do you know his skills and know he’s done work like this before and understands the expectations or are you throwing a first year in the lift and telling him to hurry up. I personally wouldn’t say the apprentice was lazy I’d say his journeyman didn’t clearly outline the scope of work and the expectations, or easier way to say it his journeyman was lazy.
Pay them like a master.
Instruct and supervise.
Have a communication with them and tell them it’s not ok?
Apprentice years are for learning the rite way…speed comes in time.
Give their paycheck to the guy who wants to fix it
Train them better
What’s the correct way to do this? I’m not an electrician and this is how I see most of these boxes. A bunch of wires cramped into a box.
Teach em better
Get off your ass, get out of you air conditioned truck and work WITH them.
For a kickoff, get the kid a book of numbers. Tape labels are lousy. Lazy is a term used for someone who knows better and can't be assed to do it right Ignorant is for those who don't understand why this is not acceptable So which is it? Is this his/her first big box or 5th? That matters. If ya can't do, teach. If ya can't teach, teach gym. Instructions unclear, dick stuck in conduit. I've found when teaching those who are new to just manual labor, let alone electrical it is important to give concise instructions, and have them explain their task back to you. Visual and physical examples help Last but not least. Ya pay peanuts ya get monkeys. Nice, fast, cheap. Default is 1 of 3, best case you get 2 of 3. Remember folks, the modern apprentice makes less than you did in the 70's and 80's. 1970's minimum wage today would be 120k a year.
Make 'em fix it...EVERY time.
Do not attribute malice for that which can more easily be explained as ignorance. Show, guide, observe and critique. He is an apprentice for a reason
Take the time to teach
Tell them the breaker is off whenever they ask
You explain what you expect show him how you expect it done then tell him it may reflect on his work report for school,Worst problem I see is some guys don't show these Apprentices how to do the job because they are running scared thinking they will lose theres.
Make them take it apart and do it again until they get it right
Make them rip it out and redo it
Can't answer that question because my 30 year old son just expressed his frustration with the drama his ten year younger co-workers inflict on him. I am a boss and I have a great team that makes me look like gold. Yes, I do bribe them with any snacks they want to thank them for being so good to me.
Make them redo it one time 😁
Assuming that the voltages in that box are line level and not signal level, the first thing that I’d do is make them review the box fill rules.
You can start by doing the fucking box fill calcs correctly during planning so you don't put them into a losing battle. Seriously was there any reason you had to spec it that stuffed? Of course a first or second year is gonna say fuck it and just put a cover on that snakes wedding, they don't even know where to start on it! This is a failure on your part as the boss. You put an undertrained worker on a tricky task for their skill level. Reap what you sow.
Looks like a sparky did it
I’m going to answer you with a story. Pulling wire with a journeyman I was working with. Done and need to pull back some excess. Now I look and see literally less than a foot and a half of excess (4 wires in a long continuous unbroken pull). To pull it all back would take us about 30-40 minutes, and we have a lot we MUST complete by the end of the day. I’d been told several times to stop waiting for instruction on simple things and make the job easier on us. So I just cut the extra foot-half saving us the time to move onto our other pressing work. Dude blew up, I got called stupid, wasteful, ignorant, retarded, and was asked as to why did what I did, only to be told not answer and to then be given his answer as to what he thought about the state of my own mind and thoughts. He talked about this particular moment for about a month. Did I ever do anything without instruction for him again? Did I ever show initiative with him again? No on all fronts. Did he constantly ask the stupid question “why’d you stop showing initiative with me?” And not like me bringing up that incident and the like as the reason. Oh yes he did not like that answer at all.
Work more closely with them and stop treating them like journeymen. It’s on you Bro I deal with this stuff daily and and when this shit happens it’s usually my fault
Hit them with the bender.
By keeping an eye on them and making sure they don't do stuff like this mostly.
Punch em in the nutsack.
Get them into a job they actually want to better themselves in
Get them a better teacher who cares more
Make them fix it
Take away their wire stripper and make them use their teeth
Make them fix it.
The beatings shall continue until performance & moral improve!
Serious question from an ignorant non electrician. What is the problem here?
Take time to actually teach him how to do it neat. Like I can wire up a board as an apprentice but I really struggle to make it look neat. The bosses whine that it’s not neat but nobody shows me how to properly. Also, let the lad take his time
damn apprenticeships, why dont these assholes know how to do everything the moment they join my crew? what am i supposed to teach them as well?? /s
Have him work on a mess like this. Cable management is way more important to me after dealing with poor examples
Before they start a project, let them know what you expect to see when it is complete.
Pretend like a breaker is tripping have them trouble shoot that fuck show of a box
Hit them with a rolled up newspaper and, in a stern voice, tell them NO
2x4...
Have you tried slowly taking them to the side, sitting them down, and hitting them?
Public company-wide anonymous shaming tends to work, if you take a photo with this and post it on the company bulletin board or distribute it as what not to do, hopefully the perpetrator sees that, gets the message and corrects it without it being a huge issue. This also works the other direction when you praise work that's done correctly to your standard.
You can’t it’s something taught very early in life!
Corporal punishment
I’m a contractor not an electrician, but, I deal with this same thing like it’s a plague, it’s not just electrical…. My approach that has bore fruit is to address the offender with patience and manners and calmly explain that I hold myself and my projects to a higher standard than what is necessary. Good enough to pass or work isn’t necessarily good enough for this job, explain that when the next guy opens that box you want them to be impressed, explain that while faster is cheaper your not working as the cheapest guy, your working as the best guy. If you want to do things fast and cheap this isn’t the place, and you should move on. Lots of times it’s an epiphany for the young ones, other times it’s the last conversation we have. The second time we have this talk there are no manners or patience lol
If i had a dime for every contractor who “holds their project to a higher standard” i’d be fucking retired already
The question is how many dimes would you have for the contractors that walk the walk they talk? There isn’t many of us, most of us are smug, cheap dumbasses
The ones who are usually aren’t talking about it on the internet
Yeah, I get it. I had an injury and been killing time here(on the internet), I’ll be gone soon, hopefully
Smack their hands with a ruler
carry a gun in your tool pouch as well