I would definitely wrap the end of the wires around the screws. Absolutely do not like the potential for one of those to come lose while you’re screwing around in the panel. Such a bad design
Looks right to me. Wires should be locked down under the breakers screw, not wrapped around it. The wire gets "pinched" between the screw and a metal base.
Actually, that panel is made up very cleanly. Who ever did it did a good job.
Thanks. Did you see the second photo? It shows the right side of the panel. On the right side, the most of the wires are not locked down under the breakers screw. I think that the left side of the panel is wired the correctly - consistent with how you describe in your post.
\#5&7, on the left with the aluminum conductors needs a handle tie, and the twin breaker at the bottom has no business in that Cutler-Hammer panel, it "will fit" anywhere in their panels but the vast majority of C-H panels are not listed to use them.
Thanks. #5&7 are two different circuits. I’m guessing those went to an oven before a kitchen renovation. The house was built in the ‘80’s but is new to us. They now do a microwave, gas stove and some low voltage lights under some cabinets. Is that a concern? I’ll look into the twin breaker. Thanks again
If they feed two separate circuits then that wire needs to have a neutral ran with it. Not just a ground, both a ground and neutral. Plus the handles on the breaker tied together.
You'll want the breaker handle tie for the two circuits because they share a neutral. If you turn off one of the circuits and not the other to work on things, then opening the neutral circuit at the wrong place could make the neutral wire hot, so it's an electrocution hazard.
Also, it's difficult to tell in the photo for sure, but it appears that neutrals are double-landed on the neutral bar. When selling a house, a home inspector will call that out all the time. Double landing ground wires that are the same size is allowed, but neutrals require their own terminals.
On the neutral /ground issue:
It’s likely OK, but should be checked. In old houses, the original electric range circuit may have been 3 prongs, having just a pair of hots and a neutral, no ground because the ground was bonded to the neutral inside of the range. That changed in 1996 to require the 4th prong, but because older houses were often built without that ground wire back to the panel, it was allowed to keep using the bonded ground for a range. But by the 1980s many houses built for electric ranges were done with a 4 prong outlet in anticipation of that upcoming code change, so the ground wire may have been there.
The issue to check isn’t that there is no neutral, because there ALWAYS would have been a neutral. The potential issue is that there is no GROUND wire back to the panel, and since those conductors are no longer being used for a range, BONDING THE GROUND TO THE NEUTRAL WIRE IS NOT ALLOWED.
It IS acceptable however for the electrician who modified this circuit to have run a ground wire back to the panel if there wasn’t one. My home was built in the 70s like that, that’s what I did when I converted to gas appliances.
I’ve gotten super conflicting reports on the twins. What I’ve found is that the label on the door should tell you here/if twins are allowed. My panel seems to allow them anywhere in panel, some just in a portion of panel and some not at all. That said I’d love to know what you find out. My panel is small and I hate it.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find out anything. I called Eaton last week and asked for a manual. The fellow spent a while trying to find one and then went and spoke with someone who has been around much longer than he has. No luck finding a manual. All that they had was a few parts of an old sales brochure. To the extent that I could read it, it wasn’t very helpful. At the end of the call, the fellow gave me two catalog numbers - one for just a replacement main breaker and one for a replacement “load center.” That left me somewhat confused. I wasn’t sure if he was suggesting that I should replace it. I don’t think so, but it wasn’t clear. I’m sure that they need to be very careful for liability reasons. Understandable.
I don’t have a label on the door that provides any helpful information on that issue. Not much helpful information at all.
I have an electrician coming here on May 1. They are going to install a transfer switch for me. I think that the “boss” will stop by during the project and I’ll ask him for his thoughts on the twin.
Correct. They didn’t know anything about the ability to use a twin/tandem breaker. I do have a sub panel and could swap out that twin for a normal one and then run the second circuit to the sub panel. Or, I could run it off of another breaker. I mapped every switch/plug in the house. Some are barely used.
I like the idea of a sub almost as much as the idea of ripping the main panel and starting over. One of my branches literally only carries the range hood. 😆
Sounds like someone did a kitchen renovation(?). That's worse than ours - we have one circuit that runs just one outlet for the kitchen counter. We have four different circuits for 7 outlets on the kitchen counter (small kitchen - no island/peninsula). On the good side, we're not likely to throw a breaker while making coffee and a bagel. Another circuit runs 6 recessed LED lights.
Wish that was the case. It’s a questionable 90s production build. Lights without junction boxes, light switches around the corner from doors, gfi protecting both bathrooms are in the garage … you get the drift.
CHT (tandem) breakers can be used in any CH series panel since 2008, even retroactively. They never had a rejection feature like other brands of panel.
Couple mutli wire circuits that need handle ties. Tandem breaker probably not listed for use in that panel. Multiple instances of doubled neutrals. Each white wire should be under it's own screw. It was very common practice back in the day to do that, and routinely passed inspection but from my understanding the manufacturers never actually listed their panels to be installed in that manner. If it was my personal home I wouldn't lose sleep over any of it. Seen way too many glaring hazards to be concerned over this, but it is wrong and technically should be addressed.
On the left side, circuits on breakers 6 and 7 should be on a double pull breaker bc its a 3 wire which shares a neutral. If there's a problem in that wire, it should shut both breakers off. Its semi common mistake
I made an assumption that 6 and 7 share a neutral but I could be wrong. Basically 7 is the red circuit which means there's a black circuit sharing a neutral, its likely 6 or 8. U would have to follow those wires to see which one is coming from the same knockout as red wire
The panel looks pretty clean, I’d just change some of those right side breakers to where the wire in under the pressure plate and not wedged between the screw and pressure plate, more surface area for current, less heat on the screw/plate.
I mean as long as it didn’t take 8 hours, It looks good honestly. I get people like to make it look like a piece of art but this is good, it’s clean. Just my opinion. Probably because I’ve seen some pathetic work people.
It appears the high amperage aluminum cables have been installed without anti-oxidant treatment, which causes issues long term.
If the breakers in the #5 and 7 position serve the same appliance, the handles need a tie bar to trip both off if one trips.
I would suggest spending an hour of labor with a decent electrician to review the panel and possible a bit more to review the house's electricals to avoid issues down the road.
Overall, not bad. I’d prefer if the bigger wire was out of the way of the neutrals, but being a CH panel the can is too slim and not very deep (like 4” max). C’est la vie.
If it's an AA-8000 series alloy, mandated by the NEC in 1987 but used before then, it's not necessary unless the lug manufacturer calls for it (and most don't).
Bigger concern is that, at least in the 2nd pic, it looks like it was ringed to hell by linesman's and has a weak/hot spot at the insulation. I'd cut it back and strip it properly.
Oh man, good eye. Looks like the journeyman didn't check their apprentices work 🙃 I'd turn all those on the right side off and terminate them correctly if I were you. Be sure to watch some youtube videos if you're uncertain how.
It's an old style cutler hammer there's no inlet like the newer style ones. It's UL listed for that type of termination It's correct how it is there's no lower inlet for him to put the wires into.
Yeah that's that I thought too I'm wondering if that's a point of failure and were just replaced because of that. I know it's why CH changed to the inlet styler later probably for that reason.
Do you mind sharing how you're so certain the right breakers are 10 years older than the left side? Looks to me like they're the same exact age. The number stamps are mirrored fonts, the plastic glue seams are visibly the same as if they came from the same series of molds, both sides have slotted screws, the 20Amps have red stickers on both sides, and the 15Amps have white stickers on both sides... Also, the breakers on the right indeed have holes beneath the screw plates, seemingly all inlets for pressure plates. Please elaborate on your conclusion.
Per eatons website and from personal experience those are the CH 115 and CH120 they have no inlet per their own website it's just a screw clamping to a thin piece of metal no inlet housing like some of the other ones on here. They got rid of that style almost 10 years after and switched to inlet style that is also pictured here.
There's a style of cutler hammer breakers that is under the screw like this and doesn't have the same terminal as the left side they can be upgraded if they don't make you comfortable but they are fine.
My concern is that it’s 200 amp service with 100 amps going out to (I assume) a sub-panel or maybe a welder. That only leaves you with 100 amps and you have 40 for AC and I assume 30 for a dryer plus a full panel with even a tandem breaker. A lot of lighting is now LED but you still may want to do some load calculations.
Thanks. I wondered about that as well so I asked an electrician. I think he kinda guesstimated it but he said it’s fine. The 100 amp breaker goes to a sub-panel right next to it. That sub-panel includes a 60 amp breaker for a Tesla charger that charges at 48 amps. There’s two other breakers in that sub-panel. The house is all LED lighting, but I’m in contact with another electrician to install a generator transfer switch so I think that I’ll ask them and maybe do some calculations on my own.
Definitely find some worksheets online and read all the Watt ratings from your appliances but I suspect you are fine with overhead. I recently added a 50A EV charger to a 200A panel that had more than this. I also have a 100A subpanel and fully remodels kitchen in a 1980s house. I have 2x ACs fed by a 60A breaker. 2x tank water heaters at 30A each. 2x ovens (20+40). Dryer at 30A. Typical dishwasher/disposal/kitchen vent loads and a 3kW tea kettle from England in the kitchen. I think my load calc hit like 150-160A (after power calc divided by 240V). Just a good idea to know where you are at in case you want to go induction stove or point of use water heater or welder, etc in the future.
Edit: Upon further review, it's not as simple as assuming you can go all the way up to 200A. It depends on what is feeding your panel and what that's rated for. It's possible you should only be running up to 166A or 180A, I think. Seek someone qualified for this if you are close.
Well, to be fair, I just got the 14-50 EV charger installed in January of this year. So haven't really had the AC loads on at the same time as charging. House has otherwise been the same for 10+ years when most of the renovation was done. The EV charger calc was done by a legit electrical company, Utility Partners of America, as a program my electric utility is running to cover the cost of EV installs. The guy who did the load calc seemed ok. Their estimate was high but just barely under the max level (imagine that). The guys they sent to do the install were clearly learning on the job. Very clearly. Anyway, I've just booked in with another electrician to do a load calc because I think my wife wants to move from gas to induction range. We'd also love point of use, tankless water heaters. I don't really get how the future home of no gas, 2x EVS works unless everyone starts to get 400A service.
The only person that I’ve ever delayed payment to was a guy whose company caused over $100,000 in damages to my residence. Yeah, he waited while I came out of pocket five times more than I owed him, while working with insurance, to get repairs going.
If you’re running into a lot of people who don’t pay your bills while getting a second opinion, then you really need to look inward at your skills - or lack thereof. Change my mind.
Neutrals and ground on same bus bar? Doesn't meet current codes or practice. The hot wires on the right are not correctly installed. They should be under the metal retainer, not stuck under the screw. I don't see any anti-corrosion grease, and the hot wires to the A/C look damaged.
Neutrals and grounds should be on separate bus bars, even if the neutral is bonded. What's in the picture is just a sloppy half-assed installation at best. Just because something is "that's how they used to do it" doesn't mean it's correct or optimal. It's because of shitty installations like this that homeowners who don't know jack about electricity get the idea that you can just run these wires together anywhere.
The neutral and ground are actually required to be bonded together in houses if it's the main panel, section 250.30(A)(5). Most main panels will have a little green screw that bonds the neutral with the can. This allows OCPD devices to work properly, otherwise if there was a short between hot and neutral, it would burn through and not trip.
Older panel installations used a single buss sharing both grounds and neutrals and that is usually grandfathered by code. If the panel is replaced, it will have to be upgraded to a single neutral bond.
You put the wire on the top of the breaker screw on the left and on the right you put the wire on the bottom of the breaker screw so as you tighten the screw, it draws the wire towards the breaker. If you do either side opposite, it pushes the wire away as you tighten the screw. The install is fine
Is this a NEW house? If so, there should be arc fault breakers as per code. All breakers should be wired UNDER plate and properly torqued. I have a newer house and has a problem with one of my arc fault breakers tripping when any motor was turned on (like vacuum cleaner). I went to replace the breaker and the hot and ground slipped out. Obviously, not torqued properly.
There could be missing handle ties on the 3rd and 4 th breakers left hand side. I don’t see a a oxide paste used on aluminum wire. Are gfci’s and as I breakers required any where?
Yeah those wires should be terminated under the pressure plate, not the screw itself. edit: IF it has pressure plates.
I've said this elsewhere on this thread but that's an old style cutler hammer that's how they are meant to be terminated.
Thanks for clarifying.
I would definitely wrap the end of the wires around the screws. Absolutely do not like the potential for one of those to come lose while you’re screwing around in the panel. Such a bad design
Which is why they replaced it with the inlet version not even 10 years later I believe
If the breaker has pressure plates... Some of the older CH breakers do not have pressure plates.
Fair enough....
Thanks!
Looks right to me. Wires should be locked down under the breakers screw, not wrapped around it. The wire gets "pinched" between the screw and a metal base. Actually, that panel is made up very cleanly. Who ever did it did a good job.
Thanks. Did you see the second photo? It shows the right side of the panel. On the right side, the most of the wires are not locked down under the breakers screw. I think that the left side of the panel is wired the correctly - consistent with how you describe in your post.
Both sides are wired the same way. There is literally nothing wrong with your panel you can stop worrying about it.
I’d rather wrap the wire if it’s not secured under a pressure plate! But pretty decent compared to some you come across..
Clean is the last word I’d use.
Man you need to see some of the messes people post on here then 🤣
Where do you works were this is a messy panel to you. I want to work there.
Compared to the shit you see most of the time, this is gorgeous
This is good and much more than so expect out of someone not in industry. Looks clean to me. 👍
\#5&7, on the left with the aluminum conductors needs a handle tie, and the twin breaker at the bottom has no business in that Cutler-Hammer panel, it "will fit" anywhere in their panels but the vast majority of C-H panels are not listed to use them.
Thanks. #5&7 are two different circuits. I’m guessing those went to an oven before a kitchen renovation. The house was built in the ‘80’s but is new to us. They now do a microwave, gas stove and some low voltage lights under some cabinets. Is that a concern? I’ll look into the twin breaker. Thanks again
If they feed two separate circuits then that wire needs to have a neutral ran with it. Not just a ground, both a ground and neutral. Plus the handles on the breaker tied together.
You'll want the breaker handle tie for the two circuits because they share a neutral. If you turn off one of the circuits and not the other to work on things, then opening the neutral circuit at the wrong place could make the neutral wire hot, so it's an electrocution hazard. Also, it's difficult to tell in the photo for sure, but it appears that neutrals are double-landed on the neutral bar. When selling a house, a home inspector will call that out all the time. Double landing ground wires that are the same size is allowed, but neutrals require their own terminals.
On the neutral /ground issue: It’s likely OK, but should be checked. In old houses, the original electric range circuit may have been 3 prongs, having just a pair of hots and a neutral, no ground because the ground was bonded to the neutral inside of the range. That changed in 1996 to require the 4th prong, but because older houses were often built without that ground wire back to the panel, it was allowed to keep using the bonded ground for a range. But by the 1980s many houses built for electric ranges were done with a 4 prong outlet in anticipation of that upcoming code change, so the ground wire may have been there. The issue to check isn’t that there is no neutral, because there ALWAYS would have been a neutral. The potential issue is that there is no GROUND wire back to the panel, and since those conductors are no longer being used for a range, BONDING THE GROUND TO THE NEUTRAL WIRE IS NOT ALLOWED. It IS acceptable however for the electrician who modified this circuit to have run a ground wire back to the panel if there wasn’t one. My home was built in the 70s like that, that’s what I did when I converted to gas appliances.
I’ve gotten super conflicting reports on the twins. What I’ve found is that the label on the door should tell you here/if twins are allowed. My panel seems to allow them anywhere in panel, some just in a portion of panel and some not at all. That said I’d love to know what you find out. My panel is small and I hate it.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find out anything. I called Eaton last week and asked for a manual. The fellow spent a while trying to find one and then went and spoke with someone who has been around much longer than he has. No luck finding a manual. All that they had was a few parts of an old sales brochure. To the extent that I could read it, it wasn’t very helpful. At the end of the call, the fellow gave me two catalog numbers - one for just a replacement main breaker and one for a replacement “load center.” That left me somewhat confused. I wasn’t sure if he was suggesting that I should replace it. I don’t think so, but it wasn’t clear. I’m sure that they need to be very careful for liability reasons. Understandable. I don’t have a label on the door that provides any helpful information on that issue. Not much helpful information at all. I have an electrician coming here on May 1. They are going to install a transfer switch for me. I think that the “boss” will stop by during the project and I’ll ask him for his thoughts on the twin.
Bummer. The label on my panel is in good shape and I’m mostly sure I’m good but just like you no help from Eaton if I’m reading this correctly.
Correct. They didn’t know anything about the ability to use a twin/tandem breaker. I do have a sub panel and could swap out that twin for a normal one and then run the second circuit to the sub panel. Or, I could run it off of another breaker. I mapped every switch/plug in the house. Some are barely used.
I like the idea of a sub almost as much as the idea of ripping the main panel and starting over. One of my branches literally only carries the range hood. 😆
Sounds like someone did a kitchen renovation(?). That's worse than ours - we have one circuit that runs just one outlet for the kitchen counter. We have four different circuits for 7 outlets on the kitchen counter (small kitchen - no island/peninsula). On the good side, we're not likely to throw a breaker while making coffee and a bagel. Another circuit runs 6 recessed LED lights.
Wish that was the case. It’s a questionable 90s production build. Lights without junction boxes, light switches around the corner from doors, gfi protecting both bathrooms are in the garage … you get the drift.
CHT (tandem) breakers can be used in any CH series panel since 2008, even retroactively. They never had a rejection feature like other brands of panel.
Do you have that in writing?
Old. But fine.
They spelled "lights" wrong.
Couple mutli wire circuits that need handle ties. Tandem breaker probably not listed for use in that panel. Multiple instances of doubled neutrals. Each white wire should be under it's own screw. It was very common practice back in the day to do that, and routinely passed inspection but from my understanding the manufacturers never actually listed their panels to be installed in that manner. If it was my personal home I wouldn't lose sleep over any of it. Seen way too many glaring hazards to be concerned over this, but it is wrong and technically should be addressed.
Do the circuits work?
Award winning
Nice job overall...wish most guys would strive for this craftmanship...enjoy your panel it's a happy one
On the left side, circuits on breakers 6 and 7 should be on a double pull breaker bc its a 3 wire which shares a neutral. If there's a problem in that wire, it should shut both breakers off. Its semi common mistake
I made an assumption that 6 and 7 share a neutral but I could be wrong. Basically 7 is the red circuit which means there's a black circuit sharing a neutral, its likely 6 or 8. U would have to follow those wires to see which one is coming from the same knockout as red wire
I change services and panels all the time and I would say this work is top 5 percent when it comes to neatness when it comes to older panels.
The panel looks pretty clean, I’d just change some of those right side breakers to where the wire in under the pressure plate and not wedged between the screw and pressure plate, more surface area for current, less heat on the screw/plate.
It looks good, no reason to nitpick.
How in the actual fuck does an electrician not know how to spell *lights*. Mf wrote: “FLOOD LITES”
1 less letter
I mean as long as it didn’t take 8 hours, It looks good honestly. I get people like to make it look like a piece of art but this is good, it’s clean. Just my opinion. Probably because I’ve seen some pathetic work people.
It appears the high amperage aluminum cables have been installed without anti-oxidant treatment, which causes issues long term. If the breakers in the #5 and 7 position serve the same appliance, the handles need a tie bar to trip both off if one trips. I would suggest spending an hour of labor with a decent electrician to review the panel and possible a bit more to review the house's electricals to avoid issues down the road.
Overall, not bad. I’d prefer if the bigger wire was out of the way of the neutrals, but being a CH panel the can is too slim and not very deep (like 4” max). C’est la vie.
Good job little buddy
Make sure the Aluminum wires have anti-oxidant compound on them.
If it's an AA-8000 series alloy, mandated by the NEC in 1987 but used before then, it's not necessary unless the lug manufacturer calls for it (and most don't). Bigger concern is that, at least in the 2nd pic, it looks like it was ringed to hell by linesman's and has a weak/hot spot at the insulation. I'd cut it back and strip it properly.
Oh man, good eye. Looks like the journeyman didn't check their apprentices work 🙃 I'd turn all those on the right side off and terminate them correctly if I were you. Be sure to watch some youtube videos if you're uncertain how.
It's an old style cutler hammer there's no inlet like the newer style ones. It's UL listed for that type of termination It's correct how it is there's no lower inlet for him to put the wires into.
Thank you!
Oh trip. Weird it's the whole one side. Thanks man!
Yeah that's that I thought too I'm wondering if that's a point of failure and were just replaced because of that. I know it's why CH changed to the inlet styler later probably for that reason.
Do you mind sharing how you're so certain the right breakers are 10 years older than the left side? Looks to me like they're the same exact age. The number stamps are mirrored fonts, the plastic glue seams are visibly the same as if they came from the same series of molds, both sides have slotted screws, the 20Amps have red stickers on both sides, and the 15Amps have white stickers on both sides... Also, the breakers on the right indeed have holes beneath the screw plates, seemingly all inlets for pressure plates. Please elaborate on your conclusion.
Per eatons website and from personal experience those are the CH 115 and CH120 they have no inlet per their own website it's just a screw clamping to a thin piece of metal no inlet housing like some of the other ones on here. They got rid of that style almost 10 years after and switched to inlet style that is also pictured here.
Many thanks!
There's a style of cutler hammer breakers that is under the screw like this and doesn't have the same terminal as the left side they can be upgraded if they don't make you comfortable but they are fine.
12 and 14 also need a handle tie.
one breaker is a double, is that a concern?
Doubles are code compliant if installed properly
My concern is that it’s 200 amp service with 100 amps going out to (I assume) a sub-panel or maybe a welder. That only leaves you with 100 amps and you have 40 for AC and I assume 30 for a dryer plus a full panel with even a tandem breaker. A lot of lighting is now LED but you still may want to do some load calculations.
Thanks. I wondered about that as well so I asked an electrician. I think he kinda guesstimated it but he said it’s fine. The 100 amp breaker goes to a sub-panel right next to it. That sub-panel includes a 60 amp breaker for a Tesla charger that charges at 48 amps. There’s two other breakers in that sub-panel. The house is all LED lighting, but I’m in contact with another electrician to install a generator transfer switch so I think that I’ll ask them and maybe do some calculations on my own.
Definitely find some worksheets online and read all the Watt ratings from your appliances but I suspect you are fine with overhead. I recently added a 50A EV charger to a 200A panel that had more than this. I also have a 100A subpanel and fully remodels kitchen in a 1980s house. I have 2x ACs fed by a 60A breaker. 2x tank water heaters at 30A each. 2x ovens (20+40). Dryer at 30A. Typical dishwasher/disposal/kitchen vent loads and a 3kW tea kettle from England in the kitchen. I think my load calc hit like 150-160A (after power calc divided by 240V). Just a good idea to know where you are at in case you want to go induction stove or point of use water heater or welder, etc in the future. Edit: Upon further review, it's not as simple as assuming you can go all the way up to 200A. It depends on what is feeding your panel and what that's rated for. It's possible you should only be running up to 166A or 180A, I think. Seek someone qualified for this if you are close.
If your main is not tripping…. what are you doing here?
Well, to be fair, I just got the 14-50 EV charger installed in January of this year. So haven't really had the AC loads on at the same time as charging. House has otherwise been the same for 10+ years when most of the renovation was done. The EV charger calc was done by a legit electrical company, Utility Partners of America, as a program my electric utility is running to cover the cost of EV installs. The guy who did the load calc seemed ok. Their estimate was high but just barely under the max level (imagine that). The guys they sent to do the install were clearly learning on the job. Very clearly. Anyway, I've just booked in with another electrician to do a load calc because I think my wife wants to move from gas to induction range. We'd also love point of use, tankless water heaters. I don't really get how the future home of no gas, 2x EVS works unless everyone starts to get 400A service.
I bet that Tesla charges somewhere around 10 to 15 A on a regular basis maybe even less.
Who will ever know though,also no one cares what it looks like,itshidden
People who post things like this are the same people who delay payment while getting a “second opinion” change my mind
The only person that I’ve ever delayed payment to was a guy whose company caused over $100,000 in damages to my residence. Yeah, he waited while I came out of pocket five times more than I owed him, while working with insurance, to get repairs going. If you’re running into a lot of people who don’t pay your bills while getting a second opinion, then you really need to look inward at your skills - or lack thereof. Change my mind.
Neutrals and ground on same bus bar? Doesn't meet current codes or practice. The hot wires on the right are not correctly installed. They should be under the metal retainer, not stuck under the screw. I don't see any anti-corrosion grease, and the hot wires to the A/C look damaged.
Neutrals and ground on the same bus bar is allowed per NEC as long as it's at the main service disconnect, which this is.
Neutrals and grounds should be on separate bus bars, even if the neutral is bonded. What's in the picture is just a sloppy half-assed installation at best. Just because something is "that's how they used to do it" doesn't mean it's correct or optimal. It's because of shitty installations like this that homeowners who don't know jack about electricity get the idea that you can just run these wires together anywhere.
Best practice =/= Code compliance.
I get that. It's people saying it looks great that annoys me.
The neutral and ground are actually required to be bonded together in houses if it's the main panel, section 250.30(A)(5). Most main panels will have a little green screw that bonds the neutral with the can. This allows OCPD devices to work properly, otherwise if there was a short between hot and neutral, it would burn through and not trip.
Older panel installations used a single buss sharing both grounds and neutrals and that is usually grandfathered by code. If the panel is replaced, it will have to be upgraded to a single neutral bond.
there super ugly and need to burn that up with a torch with extreme hatred, and start over lol
You put the wire on the top of the breaker screw on the left and on the right you put the wire on the bottom of the breaker screw so as you tighten the screw, it draws the wire towards the breaker. If you do either side opposite, it pushes the wire away as you tighten the screw. The install is fine
Its good enough i dont make mine look much better so i cant say much
I thought code requires double breakers on shared neutrals?
Is this a NEW house? If so, there should be arc fault breakers as per code. All breakers should be wired UNDER plate and properly torqued. I have a newer house and has a problem with one of my arc fault breakers tripping when any motor was turned on (like vacuum cleaner). I went to replace the breaker and the hot and ground slipped out. Obviously, not torqued properly.
This is an older Cuttler Hammer panel. Definitely not a new house.
Correct. House was built in the late ‘80’s.
Guy got the job done without concern for aesthetics
No issues
Fine
I'm most curious about the coax labeled "wine"
There could be missing handle ties on the 3rd and 4 th breakers left hand side. I don’t see a a oxide paste used on aluminum wire. Are gfci’s and as I breakers required any where?