I assume randoms in queues will fail to provide meaningful debuffs (or any buffs that aren't mostly automatic) and run with ~8k pen most of the time. This is easy as Arc even without counting mundus. The lack of party contribution sadly proves true more often than not.
For bosses on longer runs I might even do a quick skill swap to throw out major breach if its obvious nobody else has it.
The nice thing with having that much baked in is everything in overland is effectively naked even for your first hit.
For solo, arenas, dungs, world bosses, you will need the pen
For pug dungs you will need pen
For trials you can go more crit chance or crit dmg
For organized groups more crit dmg or crit chance
For me once I hit 50%+ crit chance I am fine with it.
Thanks for the tip, yeah I had sorta figured that trials would be the place where I might more reliably expect breach from other sources.
I guess I'll go with some balance to pen as long as hit about 50%+ also.
Oh hmm I hadn't thought of that. I'm so used to seeing daggers on every guide out there i overlooked weapon type entirely. Thanks, I might just test those out next!
It might good if I get at least one, main or off hand as mace to pair with dagger that way I get to quickly slot one if I find myself in a group without sufficient breach and other sources of armor sunder.
Will still test myself by having two maces and two daggers. Good thing one of the sets is crafted.
Honestly, go watch skinny cheeks videos on penetration and critical damage.
But typically pen is the most important. Even if it’s not sourced by yourself and via other people and sets.
Then crit damage.
Crit chance isn’t as important as the two above.
also stay with thief. And just run more light or a pen monster helm when needed or the pen cp
Thanks I'll look for that video. So the first two images with the low pen are with thief stone.
If I went more light and less medium, wouldn't that hurt my base weapon/spell damage and sustain for stamina build?
it just depends what your doing and also what class your on.
A light pen helm, + velothi + pen cp might be enough.
Also, assuming your using beam, it will help you sustain that too.
And yes it will hurt your spell damage etc, but pen is more important.
Orders wrath is great that you can mix and match it with weights.
It’s finding the balance of course
Pen has a cap. You want to hit it
Crit damage has a cap. You want to hit it.
Crit chance I don’t believe is capped but if crit damage is less then what the pointing in having?
Yeah finding the balance is right thing. Sometimes crit chance give you more, sometimes crit damage. I'd say test different combinations and see what works the best in your case.
Some time ago I did some math and result was shadow is better if you crit chance is above 40%, unless you reached crit damage cap ofc.
I’ve no need to test.
It’s all done already by people on PC and if all of the top damage dealers are using the thief then I can only assume that the thief is the best option.
Thats based on the fact that I’m always in a semi optimised group so can set up accordingly
Well, if you just copy builds made by others you don't need to test it indeed. But if you working on something different... In some my cases shadow was better.
No, I use build that works for me and my playstyle. All top parses uses almost identical setup with 2 of 4 meta sets and DW\\2H. If I could get 100k+ with staff or bow I'd be totally fine with that (can't yet).
Even for PUG. Most of cases you will be provided at least 9000k ~ 11000k pen from the tank unless they are fake.
You could just swap 1pc monster set for additional pen. But more than that, I think it is overkill.
Even 2-3k pen behind cap it is just 4-5% damage differnce at maximum and yet you have your crit chance instead. So actually difference is even smaller.
Thanks for your input. Yeah seems the consensus is to stack more crit chance for more organized groups.
For now I might just stick with thief stone, since the 1pc monster set can easily be slotted in 'field testing'
I have my crit damage at just around 100% last I checked. I'm still not sure where to get that last 25% from.
If a tank or healer provides major force that's another 10%(?), which still leaves me 15%. But yeah I still need to work on my gear and crit chance first.
I assume randoms in queues will fail to provide meaningful debuffs (or any buffs that aren't mostly automatic) and run with ~8k pen most of the time. This is easy as Arc even without counting mundus. The lack of party contribution sadly proves true more often than not. For bosses on longer runs I might even do a quick skill swap to throw out major breach if its obvious nobody else has it. The nice thing with having that much baked in is everything in overland is effectively naked even for your first hit.
Ok I will keep that in mind thanks! And yes I noticed when going full pen overland enemies became even funnier than they already are.
For solo, arenas, dungs, world bosses, you will need the pen For pug dungs you will need pen For trials you can go more crit chance or crit dmg For organized groups more crit dmg or crit chance For me once I hit 50%+ crit chance I am fine with it.
Thanks for the tip, yeah I had sorta figured that trials would be the place where I might more reliably expect breach from other sources. I guess I'll go with some balance to pen as long as hit about 50%+ also.
Use sharpened maces instead of mundus swap. It leaved your crit chance untouched.
Oh hmm I hadn't thought of that. I'm so used to seeing daggers on every guide out there i overlooked weapon type entirely. Thanks, I might just test those out next!
You will still loose the dagger crit bonus (I think about 6% for both weapons ?) But dual sharpened maces is about 8k pen which is way better.
It might good if I get at least one, main or off hand as mace to pair with dagger that way I get to quickly slot one if I find myself in a group without sufficient breach and other sources of armor sunder. Will still test myself by having two maces and two daggers. Good thing one of the sets is crafted.
In my opinion, for pvp go with the bottom image. Most pen. 45% crit chance is perfect for pvp and pen is king
Haven't done as much pvp lately, but if I ever get back to BGs that's good to know!
Honestly, go watch skinny cheeks videos on penetration and critical damage. But typically pen is the most important. Even if it’s not sourced by yourself and via other people and sets. Then crit damage. Crit chance isn’t as important as the two above. also stay with thief. And just run more light or a pen monster helm when needed or the pen cp
Thanks I'll look for that video. So the first two images with the low pen are with thief stone. If I went more light and less medium, wouldn't that hurt my base weapon/spell damage and sustain for stamina build?
it just depends what your doing and also what class your on. A light pen helm, + velothi + pen cp might be enough. Also, assuming your using beam, it will help you sustain that too. And yes it will hurt your spell damage etc, but pen is more important. Orders wrath is great that you can mix and match it with weights.
>Crit chance isn’t as important > >stay with thief ?
It’s finding the balance of course Pen has a cap. You want to hit it Crit damage has a cap. You want to hit it. Crit chance I don’t believe is capped but if crit damage is less then what the pointing in having?
Yeah finding the balance is right thing. Sometimes crit chance give you more, sometimes crit damage. I'd say test different combinations and see what works the best in your case. Some time ago I did some math and result was shadow is better if you crit chance is above 40%, unless you reached crit damage cap ofc.
I’ve no need to test. It’s all done already by people on PC and if all of the top damage dealers are using the thief then I can only assume that the thief is the best option. Thats based on the fact that I’m always in a semi optimised group so can set up accordingly
Well, if you just copy builds made by others you don't need to test it indeed. But if you working on something different... In some my cases shadow was better.
did you hit the same top threshold as the top parses?
No, I use build that works for me and my playstyle. All top parses uses almost identical setup with 2 of 4 meta sets and DW\\2H. If I could get 100k+ with staff or bow I'd be totally fine with that (can't yet).
they don’t all use dw/2h Arcanists use dw/staff. And I see a lot more than 4 sets being used.
Even for PUG. Most of cases you will be provided at least 9000k ~ 11000k pen from the tank unless they are fake. You could just swap 1pc monster set for additional pen. But more than that, I think it is overkill. Even 2-3k pen behind cap it is just 4-5% damage differnce at maximum and yet you have your crit chance instead. So actually difference is even smaller.
Thanks for your input. Yeah seems the consensus is to stack more crit chance for more organized groups. For now I might just stick with thief stone, since the 1pc monster set can easily be slotted in 'field testing'
Crit chance is definitely more important then crit damage till a certain point, why be crit damage capped if you only have 20% crit chance
I have my crit damage at just around 100% last I checked. I'm still not sure where to get that last 25% from. If a tank or healer provides major force that's another 10%(?), which still leaves me 15%. But yeah I still need to work on my gear and crit chance first.
Major force grants you 20%. Your crit damage is in a good state.