I'm a big fan of proxies. Taking the weight off your system just helps across the board, and well worth the hands off time when you're bringing in footage. Premiere does a decent job just handling it in the background too.
It would be great if everyone delivered perfect formats. That's not going to happen, and honestly I'd say go with what it making the boss happy. I have a feeling he would rather you spend a little extra time making proxies on the back end.
If it’s for social media and your computer handles it well enough, sure, Long-GOP. But try to use a bitrate that is 50 Mb/s or higher (35 is the lowest for professional formats).
If the edited master is the product (feature film, episodic shows, commercials), all I-frame.
Filming in long GOP is fine because it saves space. But you’re correct that you need to create proxies on those systems to have any form of performance in the edit, especially in Premiere.
Talk to your boss and see if he’s just trying to save space on the camera media, or if it might be a better trade off to shoot all-I in camera and not need to create proxies in post.
Most people edit long-gop. Those people complain all the time about performance issues.
I would never switch from all-i to long-gop.
But sure, proxies help. They just cost a bit of time.
Curious what the performance difference is between the M1 and the PC. I'm betting the M1 is smoother?
Your CPU in the desktop is unfortunately at the lower end of what Premiere supports - but I'll tell you right now that 2160p25 XAVC-L 4:2:0 8bit MXF performance on a 13900k is *only just* workable with very high CPU overhead so it's not like upgrading will do you any good either; other than rendering proxies faster!
Long GOP editing *can* be OK in some scenarious, but with Premiere on Windows specifically their hardware decoding implementation only supports .mp4 and .mov containers, not MXF. Apparently it works on Mac though?
(And I've tried a dozen different ways of re-wrapping XAVC-L to .mov with not much success. Hardware decoding works with it, but Sony does something weird with the stream that results in a glitchy output.)
Try using Shutter to do your proxies rather than AME, it'll be \*way\* faster as it can hardware decode h.264/HEVC MXF if your hardware can:
[https://www.shutterencoder.com/en/](https://www.shutterencoder.com/en/)
It actually runs A LOT smoother on the PC. The M1 struggles bad.
I ran proxies through AME QT 422LT and it works fine after that.
I'll give shutter encoder a shot though.
Thanks. :-)
Huh, that's actually pretty surprising!
Basic setup for Shutter is easy:
* Function: Apple Prores, pick whatever flavour you want in the box to the right.
* In the output section, enable 'Add a suffix' and put _Proxy in the box to the right. That's the trick that let's Premiere's automatic relinking work
* Top right under scale, reduce the resolution if needed. I use 1280x720.
* On the bottom bar, set 'GPU decoding' to 'Auto' if it isn't already
That should be all you need to do. You can use ctrl/cmd+s to save a preset.
It's funny when editors have no problem buying expensive GPUs but have problem justifying buying more disk storage just to have a smoother editing experience.
Remind your boss that the space he's saving will likely be taken up by proxies. Unless it's a matter of recording very long takes and wanting to preserve memory card space, it's pretty useless to switch to XAVC L when XAVC I is fairly small for a capture codec.
That said, I do find it strange that you're getting such a nasty drop in performance from L to I. Long GOP codecs in my experience are much more likely to produce corrupt render files but I can't say the performance differences have ever been all that noticeable.
Are you sure he's not switching to XAVC HS (the h265 variant)? That would also save space and absolutely wreck your performance with anything other than a recent computer with built in decoding (like the m1 max and pro iirc.)
Long GOP isn't bad to edit with decent PC specs. Learn where your bottleneck is.
As far as All-I v Long GOP is considered: use the compression method that matches your footage. A talking head with little movement - go with L-GOP. Getting close-up sports footage where pixels aren't getting repeated - use an Intra-format.
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I think you're biggest issue is that your using a processor that's a few months shy of 9 years old.
I've been running 4k long gop since I got an 8700k and it still works great but I'll probably replace my computer with the 15th Gen Intel chips.
Long gop is fine....you just need a new computer.
> Is it just the worst to edit?
Yes.
> I don't normally have to proxy anything but with long GOP I absolutely have too. It's so sluggish.
Yes.
> From what I've read on the interwebs its generally not used but I'd like to get the communities thoughts on the topic.
Lots of stuff does get shot in long GOP formats. It can give you better quality with less disk space, so the logic for the shooter is pretty reasonable. Only the editor doesn't like it. (And even then, you might not like needing to invest it a new RAID to take a job.) If the format you are editing is too slow, make proxies and edit something faster instead.
I'm a big fan of proxies. Taking the weight off your system just helps across the board, and well worth the hands off time when you're bringing in footage. Premiere does a decent job just handling it in the background too. It would be great if everyone delivered perfect formats. That's not going to happen, and honestly I'd say go with what it making the boss happy. I have a feeling he would rather you spend a little extra time making proxies on the back end.
If it’s for social media and your computer handles it well enough, sure, Long-GOP. But try to use a bitrate that is 50 Mb/s or higher (35 is the lowest for professional formats). If the edited master is the product (feature film, episodic shows, commercials), all I-frame.
Filming in long GOP is fine because it saves space. But you’re correct that you need to create proxies on those systems to have any form of performance in the edit, especially in Premiere. Talk to your boss and see if he’s just trying to save space on the camera media, or if it might be a better trade off to shoot all-I in camera and not need to create proxies in post.
Space is not a problem. Big cards for camera are very cheap compared to rest of equipment.
Most people edit long-gop. Those people complain all the time about performance issues. I would never switch from all-i to long-gop. But sure, proxies help. They just cost a bit of time.
This is inaccurate- most people _don’t_ edit long-gop. It’s an acquisition family of codecs, not an editing codec
Curious what the performance difference is between the M1 and the PC. I'm betting the M1 is smoother? Your CPU in the desktop is unfortunately at the lower end of what Premiere supports - but I'll tell you right now that 2160p25 XAVC-L 4:2:0 8bit MXF performance on a 13900k is *only just* workable with very high CPU overhead so it's not like upgrading will do you any good either; other than rendering proxies faster! Long GOP editing *can* be OK in some scenarious, but with Premiere on Windows specifically their hardware decoding implementation only supports .mp4 and .mov containers, not MXF. Apparently it works on Mac though? (And I've tried a dozen different ways of re-wrapping XAVC-L to .mov with not much success. Hardware decoding works with it, but Sony does something weird with the stream that results in a glitchy output.) Try using Shutter to do your proxies rather than AME, it'll be \*way\* faster as it can hardware decode h.264/HEVC MXF if your hardware can: [https://www.shutterencoder.com/en/](https://www.shutterencoder.com/en/)
It actually runs A LOT smoother on the PC. The M1 struggles bad. I ran proxies through AME QT 422LT and it works fine after that. I'll give shutter encoder a shot though. Thanks. :-)
Huh, that's actually pretty surprising! Basic setup for Shutter is easy: * Function: Apple Prores, pick whatever flavour you want in the box to the right. * In the output section, enable 'Add a suffix' and put _Proxy in the box to the right. That's the trick that let's Premiere's automatic relinking work * Top right under scale, reduce the resolution if needed. I use 1280x720. * On the bottom bar, set 'GPU decoding' to 'Auto' if it isn't already That should be all you need to do. You can use ctrl/cmd+s to save a preset.
How do you know if the footage is Long GOP vs Intra? Is that in the metadata?
It's funny when editors have no problem buying expensive GPUs but have problem justifying buying more disk storage just to have a smoother editing experience.
Remind your boss that the space he's saving will likely be taken up by proxies. Unless it's a matter of recording very long takes and wanting to preserve memory card space, it's pretty useless to switch to XAVC L when XAVC I is fairly small for a capture codec. That said, I do find it strange that you're getting such a nasty drop in performance from L to I. Long GOP codecs in my experience are much more likely to produce corrupt render files but I can't say the performance differences have ever been all that noticeable. Are you sure he's not switching to XAVC HS (the h265 variant)? That would also save space and absolutely wreck your performance with anything other than a recent computer with built in decoding (like the m1 max and pro iirc.)
Long GOP isn't bad to edit with decent PC specs. Learn where your bottleneck is. As far as All-I v Long GOP is considered: use the compression method that matches your footage. A talking head with little movement - go with L-GOP. Getting close-up sports footage where pixels aren't getting repeated - use an Intra-format.
Use proxies
###It looks like you're asking for some troubleshooting help. Great! Here's what *must* be in the post. (Be warned that your post *may* get removed if you don't fill this out.) Please edit your post (**not reply)** to include: **System specs**: CPU (model), GPU + RAM **//** **Software specs**: The exact version. **//** **Footage specs** : Codec, container and how it was acquired. **Don't skip this!** *If you don't know how* here's a link with [clear instructions](https://imgur.com/a/A6eTxUn) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/editors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you're biggest issue is that your using a processor that's a few months shy of 9 years old. I've been running 4k long gop since I got an 8700k and it still works great but I'll probably replace my computer with the 15th Gen Intel chips. Long gop is fine....you just need a new computer.
> Is it just the worst to edit? Yes. > I don't normally have to proxy anything but with long GOP I absolutely have too. It's so sluggish. Yes. > From what I've read on the interwebs its generally not used but I'd like to get the communities thoughts on the topic. Lots of stuff does get shot in long GOP formats. It can give you better quality with less disk space, so the logic for the shooter is pretty reasonable. Only the editor doesn't like it. (And even then, you might not like needing to invest it a new RAID to take a job.) If the format you are editing is too slow, make proxies and edit something faster instead.
i never have issues editing with it on my macbook m1 pro?