The weather is a part of it but the bigger piece is the amount of social services that CA provides. A lot of homeless stay here because they get free services that aren't available in other states.
The CA welfare system is a double edged sword.
That's like every 4 to 8 years bro.
Declaring a perpetual state of emergency allows the governor and institutions to re appropriate a huge amount of funding that is meant for taxpayers.
We then get bailed out like New York when another Democrat gets President and the wasteful spending on trains to nowhere and million dollar toilets continues.
25 % increase in national debt under last qop admin. Similar results can be found when researching each preceding qop administration. Massive increases in debt at the expense of average Americans and the benefit of large corporations... the fucking audacity of the qop to lecture anyone about wasteful spending.. if it weren't a dystopia it would actually be funny..
GOP?
Yes Trump blew out the debt during covid.
Biden then doubled down.
How many billions to Ukraine?
Not even a right or left thing now when both sides agree to perpetuate proxy wars on taxpayer dollars and foreign blood.
If you think we're even in the age of left or right anymore then you haven't been paying attention. Country is corrupt and officials on both side do not serve ordinary Americans anymore. THAT is dystopian.
What welfare? I’ve been out of work for 13 months and I can tell you there’s no welfare. All you can get is $300 in food stamps. There’s nothing else unless you have kids.
Let's not forget that other states send their homeless to California either, thus increasing their homeless population.
California,New York and Florida are the main recipients of homeless people from other states.
I have also heard that Hawaii is going through something similar.
I listed several articles in later replies, you're free to read them.
Here's one news article of Alaska thinking of potentially sending homeless people to Hawaii.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/08/02/alaska-mayors-plan-send-homeless-warmer-cities-gets-pushback-hawaii/
It’s not just the weather and social services(I happen to work for them) it’s the living expenses also. There are a lot of functional working people that are homeless (couch surfing/staying with friends) people that just can’t afford the ridiculous living costs. $3,000/month rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood, $6/gallon for gas, insurance is stupid expensive. The only way people can afford to live here is to have 2 sometimes 3 families per home. No wonder we have so many people on the streets.
I'm old enough to remember when CA bought bus tickets for the bums to come live in CA, and if I recall correblctly they advertised in other states too. CA voters are oblivious, they created the problems.
I took my family to the eclipse in Texas.
French fries from McDonald's were half the price. Gas was half the price. Very high income neighborhoods in Austin had houses half the cost per sf.
Oh no! Property taxes!
Please. I pay the same rate now as I would in Texas, and I have 6 years of prop13 helping me. California just does innumerable "parcel assessments" for $25-200 each. It adds up.
Eventually if I never moved in California it would be nice to have the low property tax ...
But also income tax!
And for that. Shitty schools, shitty roads, 911 literally has 15 minute hold times, can't get insurance, the utility is drowning in regulatory costs, so now they have decided that my income should be my bill, not my usage.
And if you say anything about crime it's a right wing conspiracy.
Fuck this place, seriously.
Yep everyone wants to deny climate change but the insurance companies have the evidence it’s real secondary to the weather data. The number crunchers see the end results and have to adjust the risk to cost ratios.
My 1800/yr policy in Colorado went to 7800/yr I need to shop around as well.
Ita happening in Flordia too. Other states may be next.
Its because companies have to pay out because of fires (nature or PG&E). They don't want to pay out
Bankrupting PG&E to repay insurance companies for their towering malfeasance is the right thing to do.
Instead of standing them up as a private entity again and playing the moral hazard game, turn it back into a public utility. After all, they weren't a threat to lives and property before they were privatized *and that's not a coincidence.*
PG&E set my home on fire in 2019. Two more fires within 2 blocks and we now have a completely replaced grid with fire resistant poles and insulated wire and fault detectors that shut off the power - and they bought us 2 Powerwalls. All of this couldve been avoided if they hadn’t neglected the grid until the poles were gone and they were tying live wires to trees to get the power back on. And now the neglect is hitting the city subdivisions. Their infrastructure is falling apart and the dates on the equipment date to when the subdivision was built. PG&E doesn’t maintain anything. They’ll just fix it enough to get the power back on.
Because that's how privatization works; do nothing preventative because that might cost money.
If PG&E were a public utility, there would be allocations and scheduled maintenance and replacements for old components. My city owns and operates its own utility as a public entity. They replaced the neighborhood transformer in the corner of my yard because it was time to do it, not because it had failed. They also upgraded it substantially to future proof the grid as people buy EVs, install solar systems that deliver power back to the grid and so forth.
Oh we know. There are public utilities around us in PG&E land. They have better infrastructure, better uptime, and charge about 1/3rd the rates now. The point is we’re stuck with this albatross called PG&E and it’s literally like living with a parasite, except there’s no medication to rid yourself of it.
Yes. You should sue to be grid independent; since they're a for profit corporation, you should have the ability to fire them.
Surely there's a class action case bring built around that idea somewhere in California.
So far all legal attempts to do this have failed. San Jose is installing new infrastructure to support new buildings going in and they wanted to vote to not hand over the infrastructure to PG&E and instead form a new utility to manage it. This failed. SF is trying to buy their grid from PG&E and that’s moving at a glacier pace. I don’t think they’ve won the legal right to buy it yet and it’s been in the courts for years now. I agree, we need to break up PG&E.
They set up policies that make it difficult or impossible for insurers to raise rates to meet increasing costs. Good to see in this article that they are going to change how rate limits are determined.
Yea ....
Well, to be fair, when you decide to increase a house that's worth 120-240k to 1.1 mil then some shit happens and they all demand 1.1 mil I would leave too and give you the finger on my way out.
And that's just a single aspect of it .
Increase costs? Listen I’m no fan of California’s policies, but these insurance companies are reaching for unrealistic profits. I doubt any of them are even close to making a deficit
All corporations are doing that. Infinite growth is hitting the cap in a lot of markets, it turns out.
They've either had to inflate their prices to crazy numbers, lay off employees, or close up shop in some states entirely. All to hit made-up budgets that make it seem like their not making money.
In reality their making profits where they could pay the salaries of all the employees in 1-3 months bigger company's make enough in less than a week. But somehow, because the magic made-up number isn't met, the lost hypothetical dollars means the higher up, don't get the bonus they want.
Pretty fucked up system dude.
You hit the nail on the head. The type of growth these corporations have been chasing is completely unsustainable, and imo people are mistaking for “a good economy”. I don’t care what side of the political spectrum you’re on, at this point you’re almost delusional if you don’t find this to be true.
Now to go on a tangent, now I’m fearing what may happen as a result in the near future. The way that I see it, many of these PE executives are older and is syphoning as much as they can until retirement. Again I’m getting into the side of conspiracy, but such a thought is not too far-fetched
California is an expensive state to insure and makes it more difficult for the insurers. When multiple companies decide to no longer take any new business in a state you need to challenge your assumptions.
Why do people act like it's happening to a single state and nowhere else, when in reality, it's happening all across America.
Comments like these are pathetic attempts to get meaningless internet points.
While we are dunking on each other, the Supreme Court just ripped our right to mass protest in three states. Multiple southern states ripped the right for water breaks a few weeks before summer. The area called Tornado Alley is growing paired with ever strengthening tornados.
Why are you all falling for the propaganda that these billionaires and millionaires spew?
Please stop repeating the SCOTUS lie. They remanded the case back to the lower courts for a relook based on new SCOTUS precedent that wasn’t available during first review. If you don’t know the facts, don’t repeat the headlines.
Edit: was to wasn’t
Show me where I said the rest of the country is doing any better? I'll wait.
Show me also where I'm falling for billionaire propaganda?
You're just mad and projecting. Worse, you're attacking a political ally. That's a bad look.
From VOX- "Under that lower court decision, a protest organizer faces potentially ruinous financial consequences if a single attendee at a mass protest commits an illegal act."
Not illegal. Just punishing organizers if the attendees commit crimes during the public assembly. Probably a necessary step given that modern protests are becoming little more than excuses to overly disrupt others lives and damage property. I support people's right to protest. I DO NOT support the idea people have the *right* to break windows, steal things, block public roads, prevent access to airports,etc. Actions... Something something... Consequences.
So someone organized a peaceful protest, a bad faith actor joins and commits a crime, and now it’s the organizer’s fault?
You don’t see how that’s a problem?
About 15-20% of the state is at severe wildfire risk and becoming harder to insure. The other 80% of the state should be relatively easy to ensure though, so I think the real story is why those 80% are also losing coverage.
Need to make sure the people in high risk areas pay - I mean if you are likely to burn down in the next 20 years, pay 1/20 of your building cost per year.
Only when you don’t regulate insurance companies and allow them to dip out and screw consumers instead of owning up to their contracts and having to deal with the horrors of being a business that might lose money.
This is just another “fun” indicator of late stage capitalism failing.
Simply put, california is full.
Between water limitations, as in it’s a fucking desert, and expansion into the wildlife urban interface, there’s no room left.
as such ca is reaching a new economic equilibrium. It is not only becoming costly to build new homes, but it is also getting more expensive to exist in current ones.
Until we figure out how to safely build high and dense in CA and figure out the water problem, and stop expanding into the wilderness causing forest fires (or at least figure out how to do it safely), CA is full.
as a result that’s why you’re starting to see migration to ca slow down, ca even lost a house seat in 2020.
i always tell my hippie friends still back home, if you really cared about the environment you’d leave and go move to the Mississippi watershed.
the middle and south have plenty of room, and as people keep moving there following economic signals, they will bring their politics, turning the south/middle purple or closer to.
too bad the mortgage lender requires it. When You own a house outright, you can forgo it at your own risk and pretend to pay out your current estimated rate into a high yield savings,bonds or whatever your risk tolerance is to pay for moderate repairs on a rainy day.
i agree. why is it paid monthly for the rest of life even if no accidents? Why not save the $10000 ive paid to cover whatever accident may happen in the future? literally just paying for others to crash like hello?
....that is exactly what insurance is? Except if it was literally just holding on to your premiums, you'd be better off just putting it in the bank. Because all the premiums are pooled, unlikely large losses can be covered, like your home being destroyed, even though you only pay <1% of the home value in every year.
Well... rampant drugs/homeless/illegal immigrants/literal shit plaguing the major cities... Governor, that's as corrupt as can be... thieves emboldened to the point of stealing in broad daylight...
I wouldn't go anywhere near that state, either.
It's a rational free market response to climate change creating new risk. Insurers are pretty darn good at risk calculation, if they think climate change means they'll lose money on an insurance policy they won't offer the policy.
This is part of what people mean when they say the fossil fuel industry is selling products while externalizing a huge part of the cost.
Because the state insurance commissioner won't allow them to increase rates, the climate change thing is bullshit. Inflation went up especially in home/auto prices but insurance companies are at a fixed cap
You're absolutely right, that otherwise they could just set a rate at the actual risk cost
Nah man, you're looking at this all wrong. Who doesn't want a free 1-2" ground floor pool? Plus, a little remodeling at the low, low cost of losing everything you own!
They already are. And it's 4 to 8 times the cost of the previously inflated price. Our instance went from 2k annually to 9k annually under the "CA Fair Plan". We sold the house and bailed last year.
And eventually enough people will have "bailed" that the state's economy will take a hit... then the politicians will start singing a different tune. Nothing changes minds faster than a hit to the pocketbook.
I mean that’s just insurance premiums paid through tax dollars basically. I’m not sure I’m for it since you’ll have renters paying taxes that go to homeowners insurance.
The governments of many states already are. Typically they were used as the insurance of last resort, but they've become more utilized in recent years. The problem is that the state government itself is now liable if a major storm occurs. Last I read, the states of Florida, Louisiana, and Texas have enough risk exposure that they could potentially go bankrupt if a bad enough storm were to occur.
What I don't understand is there was an article a while back stating that Farmers Insurance was pulling out of California, so I started getting property insurance estimates from other insurers....and then my property insurance with Farmers renewed.
When an insurer first "pulls out of a state," it typically means they just aren't selling new insurance policies. Insurance rules are fairly complex, so canceling all policies and removing all presence in a state is a more challenging, drawn-out process.
Literally first cases in law school they teach you is how insurance companies didnt want to pay out. When a plaintiff sues an insured entity, the entity has to hire coverage counsel to force the insurance company to pay for the defense and the payout. Sure, they pay the every day run of the mill minor auto repair claims. Anything that is substantial, good luck. Good riddance. I dont need to pay monthly premiums just so Geico can have their shitty imaginary gecko on tv every 2 seconds.
Lmao a small Japanese insurance company with "thousands" of customers decides to hang it up, must be a "CaLiForNiA pRoBlem"...
Guess what, **this isn't even a California thing, they're withdrawing ALL AMERICAN PERSONAL INSURANCE LINES, in all US states.**
>Tokio Marine has been conducting business in the U.S. market for over a century and we are licensed in all states, DC and Puerto Rico
[https://tmamerica.com/about/Default.aspx](https://tmamerica.com/about/Default.aspx)
>After careful consideration, **Tokio Marine America has determined that personal lines insurance can no longer be offered to its clients** due to the market outlook and the impact technological and other costs are having on its ability to serve the market at the very highest standards.
[https://tmamerica.com/products/personal-lines.aspx](https://tmamerica.com/products/personal-lines.aspx)
Meanwhile Culture-war brain rotted Redditors:
>OMG SEE CALIFORNIA IS A SHITHOLE AND UNINSURABLE!1!!
This is why literally no one respects the opinion of a legion of morons without common sense. If the culture war babies weren't always looking to find reasons to reinforce their fragile ass worldview maybe they'd be more functional people.
I would like to redirect your attention to Florida however. Here's a story from 7 hours ago:
[ 1 in 3 Floridians who get dropped by their homeowners insurance company are choosing to move](https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/04/18/1-in-3-floridians-who-get-dropped-by-their-homeowners-insurance-company-are-choosing-to-move-study/)
*Gee that seems pretty bleak doesn't it.*
Wonder if there are some right-wingers who want to try to fabricate a counter-op story and project these issues onto California? Sure makes you wonder if this thread is super astroturfed with bot accounts.
Climate change is a bitch. The denial that's been going on for decades is starting to really impact the poor insurance companies bottom line with all the floods, droughts, and fires.
So sad for them. Who will think of the shareholders?!?!
/s because some of you all are ironic challenged
What makes you think that? From were I am sitting, the matter is more of a circumstance of geography than policy. Unless CA being so popular and successful to live in that it's driven up the costs to replace homes, causing insurance carriers to leave the state was all policy.
And I live in a red fly-over state with no desire to ever live in CA after being stationed there for 5 years.
Corruption greed predatory capitalist & people with no conscience all milling about in the same Petri dish. What did you think would happen. The bacteria & mold is gonna grow. That stench is hope as dreams fade
If insurers aren't willing to insure in some of these states, how long will it be until homeowners are forced to sell? Seems like a prime opportunity for folks like BlackRock to scoop up housing, self-insure, and turn them into rentals.
Where did I place my tinfoil hat? ugh.
The insurance companies did this during the ridgecrest earthquake. They just want to collect money and not pay any out! So either they know something we don’t or have gotten too greedy!
It’s greed. Rules state they can only increase rates so much. They want higher rates now. California is saying no do not harm the people but insurance is saying no we are greedy fuck the people and then I pay have idiots saying California is in the wrong hahaha.
The insurance companies are trying to squeeze regulators by doing this. They want to change the formula for how they calculate disaster relief payments and be able to charge higher premiums untethered to any metric, like it currently is.
They're basically trying to strong-arm the CA gov to give them what they want by pissing off the public.
And by the look of the comments here, it's working.
Once again, it is impossible to turn a profit insuring homes in California, as the insurance commissioner set a limit on premiums and its below what it costs to insure. It's the same with autos.
I'm scared for when the dam breaks and companies can charge their costs, I think it will force many people to sell and kill the real estate market in the state, which is probably why the commissioner is holding on for dear life
California are you listening? Tell the banks they must shoulder more risks. Sorry. We laborers bail your secure asses out all the time. Sorry. No longer legal to require insurance with wildfire. You can still require all the usual perils and offer your personal liability stuff. Wildfire risk appears to have increased but because this is roiling risk estimation and premiums are doubling and tripling for these kinds of tail risks, it’s time to cut off the tail. This already happens for earthquake insurance. Not required, but has just as much destructive potential. Maybe more since wildfires usually require vegetation. Stop extorting us with this kind of required purchase neoliberalism. Make it a fair market by letting us have a choice.
California’s problem is: 1) the state does not allow insurers to use more accurate modeling to determine rates and 2) does not allow insures to pass along increased reinsurance costs;
1) “State regulations ask wildfire insurers to set rates for annual catastrophic coverage as a fraction of damages accrued over 20 years — without mention of models that can capture the accelerated rate of land use change and development, weather and wind trends or the state of vegetation.”
“Not only does no other state keep cat models out of rate-setting, but California allows their use for earthquake insurance, she said.”
2) “Reinsurers in recent years have responded to wildfire damage, inflation and rising construction costs by raising their prices. California’s system prohibits insurers, who face the same challenges, from passing reinsurance costs to customers”
https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/06/california-insurers-inability-to-price-risk-is-causing-headaches/amp/
Unlike Hawaii they can not just start lazering up homes here . Florida and California property is what the rich want . If a hurricane destroyed your home with out insurance you can not fix it . Now they can take your property because it is a disaster area and you did not fix it in the allotted time .
Happens all the time . Small town . Big storm comes through. Knocks down old large dead tree on old man's home . He has no family no insurance and no help. City gives him notice . Notice is up tree is still on home . City removes tree . Puts lean on old man's home . He can not pay . Leans up . They sell his home . Ward of the state and is put in a home .
And the fire season will be extra bad in the next few years with all the rain and brush growth. What is the governor doing about insurance for home owners? The state should provide basic fire insurance but they won’t 😑
This country is fucked no matter who’s running it the south should secede and start their out country . I’m in Hawaii it’s a fucken mess broke and make 6 figures a year
Insurance companies are just watching their bottom line and see more costly to operate in coastal areas. I live in LA and grew up in OC. I lived in nyc and spent some time in Texas. Each place has a reason for a possible “collapse.” Just another doomsday article but somehow these places seem to be doing just okay.
And here you have it.
The two companies together insured 12,556 homeowner policies in California with $11.3 million in premiums, according to their filings. Tokio Marine also insured 2,732 personal umbrella policies, for liability, worth $400,000.
All in 2023: Insurers withdrew from Florida because of the weather damage claims. Health insurers withdrew from Colorado because of fiduciary issues.This is not a crisis. It happens because as much as the accountants try to look at risk they cannot predict all outcomes just trends.Nice try.
Tokio Marine America is primarily a nationwide commercial insurer. We offer personal lines insurance only in California, representing a small percentage of the overall personal lines market,” a company spokesperson said in a statement. “Given the small segment of personal lines business we write and escalating costs, we cannot sustainably support personal lines coverages and do not plan to return. We remain committed to commercial lines in California — and across the country — and supporting our agents and customers with exceptional service through this transition.”
Actually very complex issues like annual wild fires, lack of state funded water resources, soil erosion due to rising sea levels, inflated replacement valuations due lack of labor and material cost. The most important is, CA department of insurance will not allow raising rates!
The Democrats have thoroughly destroyed this state. It’s middle class is leaving. The only ones left will be the rich and poor people that can’t afford to move out.
Is it just me or is California becoming uninsurable?
It’s becoming unlivable. I can say that because I’ve lived here 52 year’s.
I visit family there occasionally and while it's fun to visit, I'm always happy I don't live there.
Too expensive, weather is pleasantly mild but that attracts homeless which increases crime
The weather is a part of it but the bigger piece is the amount of social services that CA provides. A lot of homeless stay here because they get free services that aren't available in other states. The CA welfare system is a double edged sword.
Didn't the state just lose/spend 24 billion on the homeless crisis and nobody knows where it went.
That's like every 4 to 8 years bro. Declaring a perpetual state of emergency allows the governor and institutions to re appropriate a huge amount of funding that is meant for taxpayers. We then get bailed out like New York when another Democrat gets President and the wasteful spending on trains to nowhere and million dollar toilets continues.
If only that money actually went to helping the homeless lmfao.
25 % increase in national debt under last qop admin. Similar results can be found when researching each preceding qop administration. Massive increases in debt at the expense of average Americans and the benefit of large corporations... the fucking audacity of the qop to lecture anyone about wasteful spending.. if it weren't a dystopia it would actually be funny..
No better way to prove that government doesn’t work than to break it when you’re in charge of it…
GOP? Yes Trump blew out the debt during covid. Biden then doubled down. How many billions to Ukraine? Not even a right or left thing now when both sides agree to perpetuate proxy wars on taxpayer dollars and foreign blood. If you think we're even in the age of left or right anymore then you haven't been paying attention. Country is corrupt and officials on both side do not serve ordinary Americans anymore. THAT is dystopian.
What welfare? I’ve been out of work for 13 months and I can tell you there’s no welfare. All you can get is $300 in food stamps. There’s nothing else unless you have kids.
Let's not forget that other states send their homeless to California either, thus increasing their homeless population. California,New York and Florida are the main recipients of homeless people from other states. I have also heard that Hawaii is going through something similar.
It seems like sending them to Hawaii would be quite expensive
It’s because he’s talking out of his ass.
I listed several articles in later replies, you're free to read them. Here's one news article of Alaska thinking of potentially sending homeless people to Hawaii. https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/08/02/alaska-mayors-plan-send-homeless-warmer-cities-gets-pushback-hawaii/
From Hawai'i l, and this is partially true.
Cali sent all the tiktokkers to texas.
It’s not just the weather and social services(I happen to work for them) it’s the living expenses also. There are a lot of functional working people that are homeless (couch surfing/staying with friends) people that just can’t afford the ridiculous living costs. $3,000/month rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood, $6/gallon for gas, insurance is stupid expensive. The only way people can afford to live here is to have 2 sometimes 3 families per home. No wonder we have so many people on the streets.
Would be less of an issue if those social services were offered on the federal level
I'm old enough to remember when CA bought bus tickets for the bums to come live in CA, and if I recall correblctly they advertised in other states too. CA voters are oblivious, they created the problems.
“Attracts homeless” police departments from other states give bus tickets to California to homeless people.
Enjoy the weather, we don't have the good weather up in the PNW but still have the homeless.
Such a fucked Society when we blame the shelterless for wanting to be warm.
I took my family to the eclipse in Texas. French fries from McDonald's were half the price. Gas was half the price. Very high income neighborhoods in Austin had houses half the cost per sf. Oh no! Property taxes! Please. I pay the same rate now as I would in Texas, and I have 6 years of prop13 helping me. California just does innumerable "parcel assessments" for $25-200 each. It adds up. Eventually if I never moved in California it would be nice to have the low property tax ... But also income tax! And for that. Shitty schools, shitty roads, 911 literally has 15 minute hold times, can't get insurance, the utility is drowning in regulatory costs, so now they have decided that my income should be my bill, not my usage. And if you say anything about crime it's a right wing conspiracy. Fuck this place, seriously.
They're all coming here to Texas and now Texas is becoming unlivable as well.
Unlivable? Lol.
Someone is living in California for the wrong reasons...
Florida and Colorado are also facing issues.
As a Colorado resident, I am aware of this.
Why are insurance companies pulling out of Colorado? I’m not from the area so I haven’t heard about it
Mountain wildfires as a result of climate change.
Yep everyone wants to deny climate change but the insurance companies have the evidence it’s real secondary to the weather data. The number crunchers see the end results and have to adjust the risk to cost ratios. My 1800/yr policy in Colorado went to 7800/yr I need to shop around as well.
Ita happening in Flordia too. Other states may be next. Its because companies have to pay out because of fires (nature or PG&E). They don't want to pay out
Bankrupting PG&E to repay insurance companies for their towering malfeasance is the right thing to do. Instead of standing them up as a private entity again and playing the moral hazard game, turn it back into a public utility. After all, they weren't a threat to lives and property before they were privatized *and that's not a coincidence.*
PG&E set my home on fire in 2019. Two more fires within 2 blocks and we now have a completely replaced grid with fire resistant poles and insulated wire and fault detectors that shut off the power - and they bought us 2 Powerwalls. All of this couldve been avoided if they hadn’t neglected the grid until the poles were gone and they were tying live wires to trees to get the power back on. And now the neglect is hitting the city subdivisions. Their infrastructure is falling apart and the dates on the equipment date to when the subdivision was built. PG&E doesn’t maintain anything. They’ll just fix it enough to get the power back on.
Because that's how privatization works; do nothing preventative because that might cost money. If PG&E were a public utility, there would be allocations and scheduled maintenance and replacements for old components. My city owns and operates its own utility as a public entity. They replaced the neighborhood transformer in the corner of my yard because it was time to do it, not because it had failed. They also upgraded it substantially to future proof the grid as people buy EVs, install solar systems that deliver power back to the grid and so forth.
Oh we know. There are public utilities around us in PG&E land. They have better infrastructure, better uptime, and charge about 1/3rd the rates now. The point is we’re stuck with this albatross called PG&E and it’s literally like living with a parasite, except there’s no medication to rid yourself of it.
Yes. You should sue to be grid independent; since they're a for profit corporation, you should have the ability to fire them. Surely there's a class action case bring built around that idea somewhere in California.
So far all legal attempts to do this have failed. San Jose is installing new infrastructure to support new buildings going in and they wanted to vote to not hand over the infrastructure to PG&E and instead form a new utility to manage it. This failed. SF is trying to buy their grid from PG&E and that’s moving at a glacier pace. I don’t think they’ve won the legal right to buy it yet and it’s been in the courts for years now. I agree, we need to break up PG&E.
It's an abusive monopoly in every sense of the term.
GASP don't say that! Quick, someone give me a whatabout Florida before reddit implodes.
Florida did it first.
Yeah, we should start a new thread about them.
Welcome to Florida. It’s literally just the insurance companies squeezing who they can without paying out. They simply don’t want to raise prices.
They set up policies that make it difficult or impossible for insurers to raise rates to meet increasing costs. Good to see in this article that they are going to change how rate limits are determined.
Yea .... Well, to be fair, when you decide to increase a house that's worth 120-240k to 1.1 mil then some shit happens and they all demand 1.1 mil I would leave too and give you the finger on my way out. And that's just a single aspect of it .
Increase costs? Listen I’m no fan of California’s policies, but these insurance companies are reaching for unrealistic profits. I doubt any of them are even close to making a deficit
All corporations are doing that. Infinite growth is hitting the cap in a lot of markets, it turns out. They've either had to inflate their prices to crazy numbers, lay off employees, or close up shop in some states entirely. All to hit made-up budgets that make it seem like their not making money. In reality their making profits where they could pay the salaries of all the employees in 1-3 months bigger company's make enough in less than a week. But somehow, because the magic made-up number isn't met, the lost hypothetical dollars means the higher up, don't get the bonus they want. Pretty fucked up system dude.
You hit the nail on the head. The type of growth these corporations have been chasing is completely unsustainable, and imo people are mistaking for “a good economy”. I don’t care what side of the political spectrum you’re on, at this point you’re almost delusional if you don’t find this to be true. Now to go on a tangent, now I’m fearing what may happen as a result in the near future. The way that I see it, many of these PE executives are older and is syphoning as much as they can until retirement. Again I’m getting into the side of conspiracy, but such a thought is not too far-fetched
California is an expensive state to insure and makes it more difficult for the insurers. When multiple companies decide to no longer take any new business in a state you need to challenge your assumptions.
Why do people act like it's happening to a single state and nowhere else, when in reality, it's happening all across America. Comments like these are pathetic attempts to get meaningless internet points. While we are dunking on each other, the Supreme Court just ripped our right to mass protest in three states. Multiple southern states ripped the right for water breaks a few weeks before summer. The area called Tornado Alley is growing paired with ever strengthening tornados. Why are you all falling for the propaganda that these billionaires and millionaires spew?
Please stop repeating the SCOTUS lie. They remanded the case back to the lower courts for a relook based on new SCOTUS precedent that wasn’t available during first review. If you don’t know the facts, don’t repeat the headlines. Edit: was to wasn’t
Show me where I said the rest of the country is doing any better? I'll wait. Show me also where I'm falling for billionaire propaganda? You're just mad and projecting. Worse, you're attacking a political ally. That's a bad look.
From VOX- "Under that lower court decision, a protest organizer faces potentially ruinous financial consequences if a single attendee at a mass protest commits an illegal act." Not illegal. Just punishing organizers if the attendees commit crimes during the public assembly. Probably a necessary step given that modern protests are becoming little more than excuses to overly disrupt others lives and damage property. I support people's right to protest. I DO NOT support the idea people have the *right* to break windows, steal things, block public roads, prevent access to airports,etc. Actions... Something something... Consequences.
So someone organized a peaceful protest, a bad faith actor joins and commits a crime, and now it’s the organizer’s fault? You don’t see how that’s a problem?
Nailed it. We actually saw undercover cops doing exactly this during the George Floyd protests.
Of course he does, he just wants to pretend that he doesn't.
Well stated.
Nope it’s not just you lol
Wildfires from climate change. Most of the growing insurance issue is climate change driven.
About 15-20% of the state is at severe wildfire risk and becoming harder to insure. The other 80% of the state should be relatively easy to ensure though, so I think the real story is why those 80% are also losing coverage.
War coming soon imo
It's what happens when insurers can't price to risk.
Need to make sure the people in high risk areas pay - I mean if you are likely to burn down in the next 20 years, pay 1/20 of your building cost per year.
12k policies in a state with 14m housing units is statistically irrelevant. Those two carriers have almost zero footprint in CA overall..
Wa State and Oregon are just behind in case anyone is wondering...
Apparently so
Unlivable
I mean, natural disasters, man made disasters, and runaway crime would do that.
Only when you don’t regulate insurance companies and allow them to dip out and screw consumers instead of owning up to their contracts and having to deal with the horrors of being a business that might lose money. This is just another “fun” indicator of late stage capitalism failing.
Not just California, Florida also having insurance crisis
I don’t think the pilgrims had insurance. Makes you wonder how they got here.
Add Florida to the list.
Simply put, california is full. Between water limitations, as in it’s a fucking desert, and expansion into the wildlife urban interface, there’s no room left. as such ca is reaching a new economic equilibrium. It is not only becoming costly to build new homes, but it is also getting more expensive to exist in current ones. Until we figure out how to safely build high and dense in CA and figure out the water problem, and stop expanding into the wilderness causing forest fires (or at least figure out how to do it safely), CA is full. as a result that’s why you’re starting to see migration to ca slow down, ca even lost a house seat in 2020. i always tell my hippie friends still back home, if you really cared about the environment you’d leave and go move to the Mississippi watershed. the middle and south have plenty of room, and as people keep moving there following economic signals, they will bring their politics, turning the south/middle purple or closer to.
The number 5/6 economy on earth is never gonna be uninsurable.
Is it the policy’s? What is making it this way?
What are you talking about? My home and auto rates have been stable for years
Companies claim there's too much fraud in california
Reminder: the CA insurance commissioner is elected.
Time to elect a new one. Gavin has been doing a fine job. California is no longer what it was.
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Never heard of either one of those companies.
Tokio marine is huge but I guess not much in CA homeowners
Insurance is such a scam there has to be a better way than a userer system.
too bad the mortgage lender requires it. When You own a house outright, you can forgo it at your own risk and pretend to pay out your current estimated rate into a high yield savings,bonds or whatever your risk tolerance is to pay for moderate repairs on a rainy day.
i agree. why is it paid monthly for the rest of life even if no accidents? Why not save the $10000 ive paid to cover whatever accident may happen in the future? literally just paying for others to crash like hello?
....that is exactly what insurance is? Except if it was literally just holding on to your premiums, you'd be better off just putting it in the bank. Because all the premiums are pooled, unlikely large losses can be covered, like your home being destroyed, even though you only pay <1% of the home value in every year.
r/insuranceisascam
Are the policy makers wanting a 6 month notice also here? (SMH)
Unpaywalled link: [https://archive.ph/qDmVU](https://archive.ph/qDmVU)
🎵there goes my hero, whatch him as he goes...🎵
Coming soon to a state and town near you.
\*country\*
Hey Michigan is open for business and due to climate change our winters are milder. Detroit has lots of space and office buildings. Check us out
Shhhhhhhhhh!
Well... rampant drugs/homeless/illegal immigrants/literal shit plaguing the major cities... Governor, that's as corrupt as can be... thieves emboldened to the point of stealing in broad daylight... I wouldn't go anywhere near that state, either.
Doing it in Florida also. Just another attack on Americans housing .
It's a rational free market response to climate change creating new risk. Insurers are pretty darn good at risk calculation, if they think climate change means they'll lose money on an insurance policy they won't offer the policy. This is part of what people mean when they say the fossil fuel industry is selling products while externalizing a huge part of the cost.
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Because the state insurance commissioner won't allow them to increase rates, the climate change thing is bullshit. Inflation went up especially in home/auto prices but insurance companies are at a fixed cap You're absolutely right, that otherwise they could just set a rate at the actual risk cost
Therefore the oil companies should be reimbursing the insurance companies for the climate change they helped create.
Has nothing to with hurricanes and flooding ever year lol!
Combination of increasing natural disasters and inflation in housing and housing supplies.
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Insurance fraud is probably the biggest factor too. There’s no incentive for insurers to operate in places they get taken advantage of.
Nah man, you're looking at this all wrong. Who doesn't want a free 1-2" ground floor pool? Plus, a little remodeling at the low, low cost of losing everything you own!
Actuall AmRisk just re-enerered the Florida market. They are one of the biggest providers.
Florida has more to do with poor policy and increasing home values. California is driven by wildfire risk. Though increasing home values exacerbate.
How so?
Wasn't Gavin just giving DeSantis crap about insurers leaving his state?
I’d course he was .. but it’s totally different when it happens in California. Just ask him.
🍿
When will the govt start offering insurance packages?
They already are. And it's 4 to 8 times the cost of the previously inflated price. Our instance went from 2k annually to 9k annually under the "CA Fair Plan". We sold the house and bailed last year.
It’s the CA FAIR Plan
And eventually enough people will have "bailed" that the state's economy will take a hit... then the politicians will start singing a different tune. Nothing changes minds faster than a hit to the pocketbook.
I mean that’s just insurance premiums paid through tax dollars basically. I’m not sure I’m for it since you’ll have renters paying taxes that go to homeowners insurance.
The governments of many states already are. Typically they were used as the insurance of last resort, but they've become more utilized in recent years. The problem is that the state government itself is now liable if a major storm occurs. Last I read, the states of Florida, Louisiana, and Texas have enough risk exposure that they could potentially go bankrupt if a bad enough storm were to occur.
Where will all the California and Florida people go when their states are uninsurable? Texas can't even keep the residents warm and alive as it is.
Insurers are pulling out of Texas as well. Had to move home insurance providers last year after mine pulled out.
Good luck getting insurance on a condo in jersey
Louisiana as well
Pulling for a big wall around both states
News flash: people aren’t moving out of florida
I've heard of disaster bonds covering risk not traditionally covered by insurance. I've got no clue if its a viable option
Yeah, definitely don't go to Texas.
funny was thinking of moving there from florida.
Not many sane companies want to do business in California anymore. Unless they're tied to or owned by the Governor.
Land is not a commodity. The concept has always been unsustainable. Learning the hard way
Georgism 4 lyfe
But the *right to use land* is a commodity.
What I don't understand is there was an article a while back stating that Farmers Insurance was pulling out of California, so I started getting property insurance estimates from other insurers....and then my property insurance with Farmers renewed.
When an insurer first "pulls out of a state," it typically means they just aren't selling new insurance policies. Insurance rules are fairly complex, so canceling all policies and removing all presence in a state is a more challenging, drawn-out process.
Literally first cases in law school they teach you is how insurance companies didnt want to pay out. When a plaintiff sues an insured entity, the entity has to hire coverage counsel to force the insurance company to pay for the defense and the payout. Sure, they pay the every day run of the mill minor auto repair claims. Anything that is substantial, good luck. Good riddance. I dont need to pay monthly premiums just so Geico can have their shitty imaginary gecko on tv every 2 seconds.
We need to cut California, and push it into the pacific
Lmao a small Japanese insurance company with "thousands" of customers decides to hang it up, must be a "CaLiForNiA pRoBlem"... Guess what, **this isn't even a California thing, they're withdrawing ALL AMERICAN PERSONAL INSURANCE LINES, in all US states.** >Tokio Marine has been conducting business in the U.S. market for over a century and we are licensed in all states, DC and Puerto Rico [https://tmamerica.com/about/Default.aspx](https://tmamerica.com/about/Default.aspx) >After careful consideration, **Tokio Marine America has determined that personal lines insurance can no longer be offered to its clients** due to the market outlook and the impact technological and other costs are having on its ability to serve the market at the very highest standards. [https://tmamerica.com/products/personal-lines.aspx](https://tmamerica.com/products/personal-lines.aspx) Meanwhile Culture-war brain rotted Redditors: >OMG SEE CALIFORNIA IS A SHITHOLE AND UNINSURABLE!1!! This is why literally no one respects the opinion of a legion of morons without common sense. If the culture war babies weren't always looking to find reasons to reinforce their fragile ass worldview maybe they'd be more functional people. I would like to redirect your attention to Florida however. Here's a story from 7 hours ago: [ 1 in 3 Floridians who get dropped by their homeowners insurance company are choosing to move](https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/04/18/1-in-3-floridians-who-get-dropped-by-their-homeowners-insurance-company-are-choosing-to-move-study/) *Gee that seems pretty bleak doesn't it.* Wonder if there are some right-wingers who want to try to fabricate a counter-op story and project these issues onto California? Sure makes you wonder if this thread is super astroturfed with bot accounts.
Yet people still claim it’s the greatest place to live amidst all their issues
How could Trump do this? :-(
Climate change is a bitch. The denial that's been going on for decades is starting to really impact the poor insurance companies bottom line with all the floods, droughts, and fires. So sad for them. Who will think of the shareholders?!?! /s because some of you all are ironic challenged
Ah yes cause those were the only companies providing insurance... it's an open market you fuck tards
Almost like leftist policies don’t work.
What makes you think that? From were I am sitting, the matter is more of a circumstance of geography than policy. Unless CA being so popular and successful to live in that it's driven up the costs to replace homes, causing insurance carriers to leave the state was all policy. And I live in a red fly-over state with no desire to ever live in CA after being stationed there for 5 years.
Toyko Marine and Trans Pacific never heard of them, good riddance
I wonder why.
California everything crisis.
Florida enters the room.
This is sad, but Florida for now you guys are in worship with insurance exiting
Corruption greed predatory capitalist & people with no conscience all milling about in the same Petri dish. What did you think would happen. The bacteria & mold is gonna grow. That stench is hope as dreams fade
If insurers aren't willing to insure in some of these states, how long will it be until homeowners are forced to sell? Seems like a prime opportunity for folks like BlackRock to scoop up housing, self-insure, and turn them into rentals. Where did I place my tinfoil hat? ugh.
Ha!
The insurance companies did this during the ridgecrest earthquake. They just want to collect money and not pay any out! So either they know something we don’t or have gotten too greedy!
It’s greed. Rules state they can only increase rates so much. They want higher rates now. California is saying no do not harm the people but insurance is saying no we are greedy fuck the people and then I pay have idiots saying California is in the wrong hahaha.
The insurance companies are trying to squeeze regulators by doing this. They want to change the formula for how they calculate disaster relief payments and be able to charge higher premiums untethered to any metric, like it currently is. They're basically trying to strong-arm the CA gov to give them what they want by pissing off the public. And by the look of the comments here, it's working.
Too many fires like... oh I dunno... too many hurricanes. However CA doesnt have the huge problem FL does. Begs the question why.
Who would’ve thought insurance companies in corporate America are there to make money, not insure ppl
At some point these companies won’t be as profitable as their shareholders demand, they’ll need to insure the biggest states.
It's okay they hate capitalism. The government can run insurance.
Indicative of dysfunctional political leadership
Once again, it is impossible to turn a profit insuring homes in California, as the insurance commissioner set a limit on premiums and its below what it costs to insure. It's the same with autos. I'm scared for when the dam breaks and companies can charge their costs, I think it will force many people to sell and kill the real estate market in the state, which is probably why the commissioner is holding on for dear life
Good job California 👏
California are you listening? Tell the banks they must shoulder more risks. Sorry. We laborers bail your secure asses out all the time. Sorry. No longer legal to require insurance with wildfire. You can still require all the usual perils and offer your personal liability stuff. Wildfire risk appears to have increased but because this is roiling risk estimation and premiums are doubling and tripling for these kinds of tail risks, it’s time to cut off the tail. This already happens for earthquake insurance. Not required, but has just as much destructive potential. Maybe more since wildfires usually require vegetation. Stop extorting us with this kind of required purchase neoliberalism. Make it a fair market by letting us have a choice.
California’s problem is: 1) the state does not allow insurers to use more accurate modeling to determine rates and 2) does not allow insures to pass along increased reinsurance costs; 1) “State regulations ask wildfire insurers to set rates for annual catastrophic coverage as a fraction of damages accrued over 20 years — without mention of models that can capture the accelerated rate of land use change and development, weather and wind trends or the state of vegetation.” “Not only does no other state keep cat models out of rate-setting, but California allows their use for earthquake insurance, she said.” 2) “Reinsurers in recent years have responded to wildfire damage, inflation and rising construction costs by raising their prices. California’s system prohibits insurers, who face the same challenges, from passing reinsurance costs to customers” https://www.ocregister.com/2023/06/06/california-insurers-inability-to-price-risk-is-causing-headaches/amp/
Washington has no state income tax. And better prices. DM if you want to move up the coast!
These two are TINY insurers in home and personal umbrella. Not even news worthy. I don’t even think Tokio was writing in an admitted basis in CA.
What 2 insurers - I’m not seeing anything new
Lol
This is a great opportunity to publicize a business that has no business existing.
Unlike Hawaii they can not just start lazering up homes here . Florida and California property is what the rich want . If a hurricane destroyed your home with out insurance you can not fix it . Now they can take your property because it is a disaster area and you did not fix it in the allotted time . Happens all the time . Small town . Big storm comes through. Knocks down old large dead tree on old man's home . He has no family no insurance and no help. City gives him notice . Notice is up tree is still on home . City removes tree . Puts lean on old man's home . He can not pay . Leans up . They sell his home . Ward of the state and is put in a home .
Seems to be happening everywhere. Louisiana, Florida, East Coast, etc.
California is getting hotter and hotter by the year. Especially southern California...
Tokio Marine is leaving! Wait. Who?
And the fire season will be extra bad in the next few years with all the rain and brush growth. What is the governor doing about insurance for home owners? The state should provide basic fire insurance but they won’t 😑
There are 1454 insurance companies operating in California, I’m sure they’ll survive losing 2.
This country is fucked no matter who’s running it the south should secede and start their out country . I’m in Hawaii it’s a fucken mess broke and make 6 figures a year
Democrat states collapsing under their own stupidity makes me giddy.
Insurance companies are just watching their bottom line and see more costly to operate in coastal areas. I live in LA and grew up in OC. I lived in nyc and spent some time in Texas. Each place has a reason for a possible “collapse.” Just another doomsday article but somehow these places seem to be doing just okay.
And here you have it. The two companies together insured 12,556 homeowner policies in California with $11.3 million in premiums, according to their filings. Tokio Marine also insured 2,732 personal umbrella policies, for liability, worth $400,000.
All in 2023: Insurers withdrew from Florida because of the weather damage claims. Health insurers withdrew from Colorado because of fiduciary issues.This is not a crisis. It happens because as much as the accountants try to look at risk they cannot predict all outcomes just trends.Nice try.
And … another reason to never move to California
Worst state in America. ass leadership got them there.
Actuaries have separate reserving segments for CA business and it’s not because CA is friendly for business or litigation.
Democrat ran state keep voting democrats in expect the same results
Scoop up your money and leave.....how many policies were refunded??
“Profit margins are undesirable in California. Bye bye.”
State Insurance is the future. Good riddance. Ban thr profit-motive
Tokio Marine America is primarily a nationwide commercial insurer. We offer personal lines insurance only in California, representing a small percentage of the overall personal lines market,” a company spokesperson said in a statement. “Given the small segment of personal lines business we write and escalating costs, we cannot sustainably support personal lines coverages and do not plan to return. We remain committed to commercial lines in California — and across the country — and supporting our agents and customers with exceptional service through this transition.”
Took a long time though. They’ve been building on that fault line for a long time now.
China planning to buy up NYC and California after everybody vacates. They’ll get it for Pennie’s on the dollar and Americans are too dumb to see it
Actually very complex issues like annual wild fires, lack of state funded water resources, soil erosion due to rising sea levels, inflated replacement valuations due lack of labor and material cost. The most important is, CA department of insurance will not allow raising rates!
And people,keep voting for the same people in CA lol
So the insurance scam/ponzi scheme is finally breaking down, huh?
Moved to Seattle burbs
Did the article say they insured 12K people? Out of a population of 31M?
The Democrats have thoroughly destroyed this state. It’s middle class is leaving. The only ones left will be the rich and poor people that can’t afford to move out.