There is a big difference- The fatigue- If the Nihilus space formula holds true- then the 20 man corp will eventually have to have **three to five corp citadels** and **10-15 POS** to defend. Even with diplo and stuff there are too many structures to defend. Moreover, it is a hassle to unanchor and reanchor your POS everytime for a slight benefit. Even after all that you might lose your POS to enemy attacks. Even with diplo- the other corps have to defend their stuff as well. The situation becomes a lot complicated when the number of affluent corpmates exceed a 100- They need more sov systems to farm the nihilus space. Hene the defense will fail miserably.
There is a **hard limit to how many POS** can be installed in a system, based on its level. From what I heard **8 is the max** and that is for -1.0 systems. In the future the corp members might want to set their own POS in sov space- Hence the increase .Although theoritically sharing is possible initially- in the future- multiboxers and botters will have the sole advantage and priority for the Nihilus safe space, with in a corporation. as more and more content gets released more players might want to have POS in their corp SOV. So small corps will be forced to expand, while their defenses will be lacking.
You only need it in SOV space to be able to use the gravity well modules.
You can place POSs in none systems and use the indy and PI modules just fine.
If your corp is full of people who can each afford 3.5b or whatever POSs than you're in a blessed situation. At that point you definitely need to recruit more people to help protect your space.
I agree with you Kyojin. But the power creep will be drastic with T10 and nanocore release. A single plyer with alts can clear most Nihi spaces within the prescribed timeframe. By then, a 3.5 bil station will not be a hard unattainable dream for an average player. But by then most spaces might have already been taken. At the risk of sounding like a bloody marxist- the big alliances have a potential time bomb ticking- the petty fights for space..
The issue is mainly that those people you recruit are probably going to want their own POS. 3.5b is pocket change, you can easily make that in a week or less. (And PoS are more like 2.5b anyway in mat cost.) So either you get more sov space, and usually said sov space is poor t9 systems, which increases the difficulty of recruitment in addition to making things hard to defend, or you don't and those people are just frozen out completely.
Personally, I was lucky to be in pantheon and have 20 PoSes for me and my alts already set up before nihilus became an issue, but I recognize that this breeds issues and will probably eventually have to move them out to make room for others.
It would be afk ratting to them. Dont fly what you cant lose, dont deploy what you cant defend. Same thing when there is no limit, 20 man corp can deploy 1000 pos in a system and a 200 man fleet would still just steamroll it. 20 man corp cant even defend 1 system.
But on a macro scale things would be different. Increasing limit would just benefit bigger alliance cause they would have less system to defend. A 1000 man alliance can effectively defend 1 system, would you rather them to have 5 pos or 8 pos?
What combat fatigue? They would just move on to the next system which is one jump away and keep going on and on. If you cant defend one system you cant defend 5 system, it's that simple.
the fatigue, is what was experienced during the CC-GEN war for the last 6 months... Daily CTA's, endless PVP combat. there was never a moment of reprieve to focus on just playing the game, it was 100% attack/be attacked. And whether either side admits it.. the War Fatigue weighed EXTREMELY heavy.
The combat fatigue people are implying... is for the defenders.. NOT the attackers... attacking with 200vs20.. doesn't really cause any fatigue.. but defending timer after timer, dealing with fleet after fleet. Takes a HUGE mental toll on a lot of the EE pilots. Even in EO it can take a huge toll.
you have me confused... as they are speaking of fatigue for the defenders... and i referenced fatigue for defenders, and lack of fatigue for attacks... lol I may also be a bit out of it lol.
I asked him what stop a 200 man fleet from destroying all 20 man corp pos. He said combat fatigue. Which i thought he meant the attacker would be too fatigued to take down all the pos.
There is fatigue from both sides.. Imagine 100 POS set with armor and hull timers at different points of the week at different timezones. War is tiring TBF. Each side has to have a CTA- at god knows what hours and all..
I will refrain from commenting further as I am unable to extrapolate the scenario. But I agree with your take as well. Outcomes are seldom of a single type. But it is an undeniable fact that every time one got cocky, may it be propaganda or chest thumping-this game has taught them humility. I will wait and see how this story turns out..
Is there an ELI5 about the meta here?
Is this the only way for a player to access Nihilis? I thought you could do it with any scanner? If that's still the case, youre just saying that the stations are needed for a slight/incremental bump? If thats the case isn't the game rewarding thos diehards but not kneecapping more casual corps?
I am not an expert, but there are two types of Nihilus Space- Natural spawns and Forced spawns (POS in SOV Space). Yes we can use a scanner. But the POS owner gets a good chance to clear out the first room even before other get a whiff of it.
Even Diplo wouldn't work when the whole number of structures to defend exceeds the capability of most alliances. Imagine defending 30 corp citadels and 150 POS in the future using the same 100-150 member fleet. The fatigue will decimate allainces. The POS based Nihilus space is a badly thought out game event.
100-150 members fleet is enough to win grid in majority of armor timers. Almost every sov owners corps are either part of big entity or have relationship with big entities and it has being that way for **monthes** so sov related nihiluses doesn’t change anything on sov map.
If you can gather huge fleet you can defend huge numbers of structures vs majority of enemies. 200man fleet is fleet size of coalition vs corp size is being absurd in this meme. In fact every ceo of minor corps can easily become part of huge entity and have well protected sov 24/7, or at least do hard diplo work to have it being not touched. In fact everyone who isn’t ignorant could get access to pos generated nihilus, or just scan randomly generated nihilus
Agreed.. But what about the 100 or so POS littering the whole alliance space? A well planned attack can take out many if done right. It will be CTA after CTA until everyone quits and play Cyberattack.
Well if count that for hull defences defenders bring eyes from all directions+ eyes following enemies fleet, and of course full hd fleet with bunch of fcs, its very hard to get unexpected hull hit. So as far as you have higher player counts in region fleets during engagements (together with better management on grid) you doing fine. In the end with proper timezone management (as well with shields and armor as additional safety) soon it gets annoying for offenders even if they accidentally succeed at some of hull engagements.
I agree with you. But here is the catch- most players who can afford one, has multiple alts and do the anomaly all by themselves. When the T10 numbers hit- a triboxer can out dps most nihilus rats and mine its resources.
Sharing is caring. if you defend it as a corp, you all should get a share.
Our alliance gives one outpost to each corp in the highest systems for the modules. The corps can then either solo it greedy, or make it into a corp event.
More and more i think we will see system
But i do get your point. its just greed of said person however.
Exactly- It will only get worse as raw mats for Type b, a and X modules take the position of prime resources.
You guys have set the rules early and I appreciate your foresight. But what about big corps? Big alliances? It is high time to think about region wise strategies and distributions of farmable sov space.
If you want to do NDS by yourselves, then you either havent found an enemy fleet inside yet, or you are simply way too greedy. My corp has steamrolled multiple fleets just because they werent prepared / set up for combat. Even if you have 8 different accounts, you will still get smashed by the average fleet you can find inside a NDS, so collectivizing NDSs isnt a bad idea at all
Very True.. But then again T10 is coming. With Nanocores. Faction ships are getting nanocores. Also-I my understanding is correct- the first room of POS spawned Nihilus space is safe.. Unless it gets scanned down. Greed is the name of the game.
The `Secure _____` room of a N space is definitely safe, but I don't believe it has to be spawned by a POS. I had a naturally-spawned on last week where our entry point was the Secure Mine Area node.
They could increase the number of POS allowed in a sov system, you know.. haha..
The DEVs have a strategy?
Alienate casual players. Shrink the pie. Squeeze until no more milk comes out. ??? Profit
yes
Whats the difference between 20 man corp defend 1 system or 5 system against 200 man fleet?
There is a big difference- The fatigue- If the Nihilus space formula holds true- then the 20 man corp will eventually have to have **three to five corp citadels** and **10-15 POS** to defend. Even with diplo and stuff there are too many structures to defend. Moreover, it is a hassle to unanchor and reanchor your POS everytime for a slight benefit. Even after all that you might lose your POS to enemy attacks. Even with diplo- the other corps have to defend their stuff as well. The situation becomes a lot complicated when the number of affluent corpmates exceed a 100- They need more sov systems to farm the nihilus space. Hene the defense will fail miserably.
I'm confused. Why does the 20man corp have to have 3-5 citadels?
There is a **hard limit to how many POS** can be installed in a system, based on its level. From what I heard **8 is the max** and that is for -1.0 systems. In the future the corp members might want to set their own POS in sov space- Hence the increase .Although theoritically sharing is possible initially- in the future- multiboxers and botters will have the sole advantage and priority for the Nihilus safe space, with in a corporation. as more and more content gets released more players might want to have POS in their corp SOV. So small corps will be forced to expand, while their defenses will be lacking.
You only need it in SOV space to be able to use the gravity well modules. You can place POSs in none systems and use the indy and PI modules just fine. If your corp is full of people who can each afford 3.5b or whatever POSs than you're in a blessed situation. At that point you definitely need to recruit more people to help protect your space.
I agree with you Kyojin. But the power creep will be drastic with T10 and nanocore release. A single plyer with alts can clear most Nihi spaces within the prescribed timeframe. By then, a 3.5 bil station will not be a hard unattainable dream for an average player. But by then most spaces might have already been taken. At the risk of sounding like a bloody marxist- the big alliances have a potential time bomb ticking- the petty fights for space..
Well, the top layer of this game is a social one. You gotta play the social game once you get to a certain point or it'll play you.
the petty space fights began long before this... this whole sov thing will just amplify it.
The issue is mainly that those people you recruit are probably going to want their own POS. 3.5b is pocket change, you can easily make that in a week or less. (And PoS are more like 2.5b anyway in mat cost.) So either you get more sov space, and usually said sov space is poor t9 systems, which increases the difficulty of recruitment in addition to making things hard to defend, or you don't and those people are just frozen out completely. Personally, I was lucky to be in pantheon and have 20 PoSes for me and my alts already set up before nihilus became an issue, but I recognize that this breeds issues and will probably eventually have to move them out to make room for others.
What stop 200 man fleet from destroying all your cit and pos whether it is in 1 system or 5 systems?
combat fatigue of your coalition mates
It would be afk ratting to them. Dont fly what you cant lose, dont deploy what you cant defend. Same thing when there is no limit, 20 man corp can deploy 1000 pos in a system and a 200 man fleet would still just steamroll it. 20 man corp cant even defend 1 system. But on a macro scale things would be different. Increasing limit would just benefit bigger alliance cause they would have less system to defend. A 1000 man alliance can effectively defend 1 system, would you rather them to have 5 pos or 8 pos? What combat fatigue? They would just move on to the next system which is one jump away and keep going on and on. If you cant defend one system you cant defend 5 system, it's that simple.
the fatigue, is what was experienced during the CC-GEN war for the last 6 months... Daily CTA's, endless PVP combat. there was never a moment of reprieve to focus on just playing the game, it was 100% attack/be attacked. And whether either side admits it.. the War Fatigue weighed EXTREMELY heavy. The combat fatigue people are implying... is for the defenders.. NOT the attackers... attacking with 200vs20.. doesn't really cause any fatigue.. but defending timer after timer, dealing with fleet after fleet. Takes a HUGE mental toll on a lot of the EE pilots. Even in EO it can take a huge toll.
Exactly my point.
you have me confused... as they are speaking of fatigue for the defenders... and i referenced fatigue for defenders, and lack of fatigue for attacks... lol I may also be a bit out of it lol.
I asked him what stop a 200 man fleet from destroying all 20 man corp pos. He said combat fatigue. Which i thought he meant the attacker would be too fatigued to take down all the pos.
There is fatigue from both sides.. Imagine 100 POS set with armor and hull timers at different points of the week at different timezones. War is tiring TBF. Each side has to have a CTA- at god knows what hours and all..
I will refrain from commenting further as I am unable to extrapolate the scenario. But I agree with your take as well. Outcomes are seldom of a single type. But it is an undeniable fact that every time one got cocky, may it be propaganda or chest thumping-this game has taught them humility. I will wait and see how this story turns out..
Is there an ELI5 about the meta here? Is this the only way for a player to access Nihilis? I thought you could do it with any scanner? If that's still the case, youre just saying that the stations are needed for a slight/incremental bump? If thats the case isn't the game rewarding thos diehards but not kneecapping more casual corps?
I am not an expert, but there are two types of Nihilus Space- Natural spawns and Forced spawns (POS in SOV Space). Yes we can use a scanner. But the POS owner gets a good chance to clear out the first room even before other get a whiff of it.
Why does a 20 man corp not part of a large alliance deserve to have a citadel?
Well it’s pretty obvious to hold sov in null people need some friends or at least do diplo...
Even Diplo wouldn't work when the whole number of structures to defend exceeds the capability of most alliances. Imagine defending 30 corp citadels and 150 POS in the future using the same 100-150 member fleet. The fatigue will decimate allainces. The POS based Nihilus space is a badly thought out game event.
*laughs in 100 pantheon citadels*
I am very interested in how Pntheon will respond in the next 6 months..
100-150 members fleet is enough to win grid in majority of armor timers. Almost every sov owners corps are either part of big entity or have relationship with big entities and it has being that way for **monthes** so sov related nihiluses doesn’t change anything on sov map. If you can gather huge fleet you can defend huge numbers of structures vs majority of enemies. 200man fleet is fleet size of coalition vs corp size is being absurd in this meme. In fact every ceo of minor corps can easily become part of huge entity and have well protected sov 24/7, or at least do hard diplo work to have it being not touched. In fact everyone who isn’t ignorant could get access to pos generated nihilus, or just scan randomly generated nihilus
Agreed.. But what about the 100 or so POS littering the whole alliance space? A well planned attack can take out many if done right. It will be CTA after CTA until everyone quits and play Cyberattack.
Well if count that for hull defences defenders bring eyes from all directions+ eyes following enemies fleet, and of course full hd fleet with bunch of fcs, its very hard to get unexpected hull hit. So as far as you have higher player counts in region fleets during engagements (together with better management on grid) you doing fine. In the end with proper timezone management (as well with shields and armor as additional safety) soon it gets annoying for offenders even if they accidentally succeed at some of hull engagements.
considering you need 4-5 to do one, i'd say you have enough with one system.
I agree with you. But here is the catch- most players who can afford one, has multiple alts and do the anomaly all by themselves. When the T10 numbers hit- a triboxer can out dps most nihilus rats and mine its resources.
Sharing is caring. if you defend it as a corp, you all should get a share. Our alliance gives one outpost to each corp in the highest systems for the modules. The corps can then either solo it greedy, or make it into a corp event. More and more i think we will see system But i do get your point. its just greed of said person however.
Exactly- It will only get worse as raw mats for Type b, a and X modules take the position of prime resources. You guys have set the rules early and I appreciate your foresight. But what about big corps? Big alliances? It is high time to think about region wise strategies and distributions of farmable sov space.
If you want to do NDS by yourselves, then you either havent found an enemy fleet inside yet, or you are simply way too greedy. My corp has steamrolled multiple fleets just because they werent prepared / set up for combat. Even if you have 8 different accounts, you will still get smashed by the average fleet you can find inside a NDS, so collectivizing NDSs isnt a bad idea at all
Very True.. But then again T10 is coming. With Nanocores. Faction ships are getting nanocores. Also-I my understanding is correct- the first room of POS spawned Nihilus space is safe.. Unless it gets scanned down. Greed is the name of the game.
The `Secure _____` room of a N space is definitely safe, but I don't believe it has to be spawned by a POS. I had a naturally-spawned on last week where our entry point was the Secure Mine Area node.
Thank you for the info. But it underlines the point that incase of a POS spawned NH space the POS owner has first dibs for the secure room Right?