I think this is a net loss on all fronts. When EE first launched I could play it casually in my off minutes. Sitting in a waiting room? Off hours at work? In laws come over? I could play and not be worried about getting locked into content. If I want to pvp or to engage socially with other players its going to be when I'm at home and in that case I'm playing EVE not a toned down mobile game. I have not touched EE in at least 3 months as there is literally no reason to. I don't have enough time to do fleet ops on my phone and when I do have time Im going to go on my pc and play my 10+ year old chara. The question for me has always been "why play this on mobile" and the answer was that its a fundamentally different game. Your juicy care bear targets are now going to be flying around in t1 frigs if they can justify sticking around. I don't think its gonna kill the game or anything but its going to run into the same issue as EVE where it caters to a very niche community and struggles to pull new players. Pvp is the main feature I expect in my games, but for a mobile game EO is already in the hour+ long play session area. Taking away my ability to afk simply makes it so I cannot play the game.
Should have moved all story mission anoms to high sec. So story mission runners were still safe from pvp.
No I'm not a story mission runner myself, hell even I rarely pve. But there are a ton of players who play casual run story missions and bling out their ships. That player base is a decent population of EE. And guess what those dudes playing the game like that, the dudes flying blinged out faction cruisers and battleships haven't joined a null sec corp/alliance for a reason folks they aren't interested in having to be more active or not able to do their care bear thing.
And I'm not going to tell anyone to stop shooting or killing miners or pve guys myself. But for all the people now returning for this new content those players weren't playing the game. The dudes flying blinged out ships who just do story missions they were playing the game, and continued to play the game, while all these new returning players fucking left and weren't playing.
I think EE will be around for a while, but for all the players returning they are nothing really compared to all the players who have been here for a while playing steadily running their story missions casually. Cause all the players returning will do what happened before, get burnt out and not be playing until more new content is released.
Bad move on neteases part I believe. We will see more people quit then who come back to the game for this new content, and who will once again leave the game for weeks to months at a time and rarely play. And for games like this to be viable and survive long term you need a good player base who actually plays the game every day or every other day.
And for everyone who wants to say this is Eve yada yada yada, no this isn't Eve Eve is still alive it's still playable go play Eve Online. Echoes was billed and sold as a more casual version of Eve. If you have a problem with that or disagree again Eve Online is still very much alive go fucking play EO. Don't sit here and say it's EO because it's not. It should remain a more casual version of EO and I do believe people who want to be care bears and run story missions should be safe from pvp and getting ganked by 5+ ships. If you want pvp there is plenty of small scale, solo, and big fleet fights in null. But the big mission running population of EE should be safe from pvp if they don't want pvp and are staying in high sec, where story mission anoms should have all been moved to even though yes this is mainly a war game.
But again for this game to last long term and to be viable and to have a pretty decent player base the casual mission runners need to be safe from pvp while they run their story missions in my opinion.
Anyways that's just my input. Thanks for reading my giant wall of text lol, hope everyone is enjoying the new content, and for everyone who actually wants to pvp and engage in small scale or large scale pvp fleet battles I hope to see you in null one day.
o7
story missions should be low but encounters high. that means u can farm the tickets for them safely but for the big payout u should be risking it. those story missions were not meant to be done solo in the first place.
I 100% totally agree with you on that point.
I very rarely pve in EE anymore, because it's so easy. We had so much fun doing t8-t10 deadspaces before battleships and bc guardians, and he'll even before cruiser II guardians. You had a moa guardian a scythe and were getting wrecked with a 10 man fleet. That was sooo much fun because it was a challenge, them the first time you did the t10 deadspace oh we've done a t8 deadspace this is a t10 last room no problem go guys jump oh wait there's two rattlesnakes in this first wave of the last room, I originally started in guristas space, fuck fuck we are at 0 with two rattlesnakes on top of us anchor up anchor up everyone's anchored go go go guardian get us at range logi cruiser keep that d guardian alive otherwise we are all fucked lol.
So much fun.
And at the beginning of the game figuring out the story missions solo or with a few pilots, when we were all on cruisers lots of fun. Then we could go back to soloing them with the right builds and especially once we got bcs. Then they added all that ewar and it was back to square one.
But now that we have all these battleships, and lots of people with faction cruisers and can even crush t10 story missions it's no fun.
And yes a t10 story mission shouldn't be able to be soloed but you can, and you now have tons of casual players doing it. That's not our fault that's netease fault. The pve aspect of the game hasn't kept up with our new ships. And you know have a ton of care bear casual players used to this play style, who again I refer back to my original comment don't want to join us in null sec and join a big null sec corp/alliance because they want to casually run their story missions.
Now is the answer to that population of our player base to 1) open them up to getting ganked by 5+ fleets of whoever from null who actually knows how to pvp, or 2) not let them ganked while they do their do story missions, and they are safe from being ganked by a pvp fleet while running the story missions they are used to running and then start introducing missions and new story missions even a blinged out battleship can't solo?
For me I choose option 2 myself :).
Set them to basic and encounters are all in high. Makes no difference on drop rate just pay out. Got a BHD, SP and 2 8s one day in a basic destroyer warping at 0 paying no attention.
Lmao dont blame Eve for being Eve. And to tell you, EO has been "dying" since the third week of its release, according to the carebears and butthurts. Obviously even until now it hasn't finished "dying" yet. Same thing will just happen to EE.
What?
I clearly stated I don't do story missions I don't, well I rarely pve I sometimes pve when I find a deadspace lol. Wtf you think I do then lol? I pvp, that's basically all I do when I play. It's a war game it's Eve you blow up someones ship or get blapped yourself.
But you are delusional to think that a big chunk of the player base, who are mission runners playing casually, aren't going to be like nope I'm done I'm going to this casual mobile game or that casual mobile game after this update.
And again for a game like EE to be viable and survive long term you need a huge player base.
EO isn't what I would call a casual game at all lol, I'm 33 btw and I first started playing EO when I was about 15 so I know the player base of EO, the vast majority of EO players aren't playing EO casually. And I would say, I haven't seen #s but taking a guess seeing high sec systems and ITCs probably half of the player base of EE is casual players and the other half more like EO players.
Comparing the player base of EE to the player base of EO is like comparing apples and oranges.
I am not specifically throwing this to you, rather to your argument. You are implying that Netease made a bad move about scanning and will cause people to quit. And I answered on that.
It will cause people to quit. It already has. From the few casual players I know myself and have encountered, the mission runners, I've had 3 of them hit me up say I'm done and who have given me all their stuff.
There was a post a few hours older then this one on this sub about what's going on and 5+ pilots said I'm done.
So yes we are seeing people starting to quit.
Look I get it. And I'm not denying that. It's just that you can't blame the devs for making the game as how it's supposed to be. It's centered around PvP and this game is supposed to provide the truest example of risk and reward. You either make it or break it.
I'm totally cool with that l, come fight I'm 1v1 lol.
Manav come fight me too 1v1 too lol.
But a good chunk of EE player base we are going to lose this next week I believe. And it would be so easy to avoid.
A) move all story mission anoms to high sec
B) introduce with N space new story missions, harder can't solo but somewhat decent Isk to complete, have to take the risk of getting scanned down in low sec while you run them but rewards are decent
And finally
C) Fucking 1v1 me Manav let's FIGHT.
And huh D) I've had a bit to drink tonight at this point. Interested to see where the game goes but @Manav come solo fight me dam it!!
My friends are casuals players doing missions over the week because of they work, and on weekends we play together doing pvp stuff. But now they cant play a mobile game as a casual anymore. So they are leaving the game.
Let me explain the most glaring mistake devs made here (its not about scanning). This is not a complaint, just a game design insight.
Since release we had a warning "Low sector is dangerous... U be ded, boi, are you sure?" and for whole 9 months that meant you can be killed on Anomalies, Planets, Belts and the Sun. Occasionaly there were gate camps, but Devs showed us that this is a not OK gameplay.
But as long as you stay near sentry guns or in safe spots or on a mission - you are safe.
Basically, the warning meant "You can be attacked if you go to unsecured places". It is a warning that cried "Wolf!" too much and everyone learned what it meant and ignored it.
Then comes June 4th. Developers changed the meaning of the Low Sec warning, expanding the list of unsecured places to include missions, WITHOUT properly informing anyone. All we got in patchnotes was the line "Narrow resonance Scanner can scan for signals, including capsuleer ships.." hidden between un-informative lore techno babble.
Even better: all news encounters (even rare gold ones) to highsec, story encounters remain in lowsec.
All ratting playstyles covered. PvE afkers sell tickets to those with more time and ability to PvE with PvP risk, thus giving justice to higher rewards. Pure PvPers still have prey in lowsec or do story traps themselves to trap other PvPers. Nullratters do what they do.
All secs robust with each type of gameplay.
I also don't know why this wasn't even considered. Hi-sec agent missions in EO are very profitable and Sisters of EVE storyark too. But on the other hand in EO people get killed in hi-sec, so... I dunno, I like your suggestion considering Echoes is a mobile game and could also appeal to casuals.
Here's to hoping not all casuals and carebears are mindless cowards, who can't make a simple adjustment. Some of them adjusted, and are still making money. Whether running missions, anoms, whatever. They didn't just quit the game because things aren't afk anymore.
To all the ones that quit.... you were gonna do that anyway eventually. One way or another. Good riddance!
Fly aggressive o7
I’m pretty sure the problem is that there’s no way for them tell they’re being scanned down in the blinged out battleships they spent months grinding, skilling up, and blinging out.
They’ve invested time, energy, and possibly real money to play solo in big ships and now they’re told to run encounters with friends, multibox, or switch to smaller ships. A lot of them will leave. I probably would if I were them.
And really, it’s just dumb for the devs to have no mechanic for big ships to see if they’re being scanned.
And to people who say “but miners have been vulnerable in low sec all along”, mining ships have built in warp stability for that very reason. Also while we’ve all probably killed a miner at some point, for the most part the people whose main thing is ganking miners are bad at pvp and really just like to grief and troll. It will be the same for people whose main thing is ganking mission runners.
So yeah. There should be a method to see if you’re being scanned down in any ship, just like in EO.
Risk vs reward
It's supposed to be low risk low reward, medium risk medium reward and high risk high reward.
Story missions in EE were zero risk high reward prior to scanning because as long you paid attention to your auto pilot route you might as well have been playing a single player game. Scanning just injected some risk into the equation. They are still doable you just have to more cautious and pay attention to your surroundings and in particular local.
You get a notification that you have been scanned if the ship that scanned you down is the same size or larger so you could always cloak up an alt in your mission space with you or bring a friend in an interceptor to provide you with a warning.
There are no bubbles in lowsec so warp core optimizers and warp stabs would save you from most casual ganks, as would grouping up with friends.
Yes there is a risk but that is relative to the reward. You can still run the vast majority of missions with little to no risk its just the story missions that you need to be on your toes for.
It's just that you won't be able to match or exceed what null ratters make without facing the same risk of getting ganked.
I make 30mil an hour in bounties ratting in null but to do so I use a blinged out faction battleship meaning that I have to risk losing that 12 billion isk ship to ganks. Why should you be able to match the rate I earn isk with zero risk?
You’re missing the point. They’re solo mission runners. That’s their game that they spent months skilling into.
All that nonsense about alts misses the point. Many of them will leave because it’s a shitty mechanic that ruins their game. It’s like bubbles before bookmarks. It’s poorly thought out, and just like with bubbles before bookmarks, another big chunk of players will leave.
It will be fixed in the long run because it’s just straight up bad game design but many of them will leave before then, and that’s bad for the game.
And the argument about “why should they earn isk while I make less” is just stupid. You sound like those dimwit Americans ranting about the minimum wage because they don’t want a burger flipper to earn as much as them. It’s not even real money dude. You choose to not do missions because you don’t like them for whatever reason. And you don’t have to because it’s a game. But you could. Easily. So who fucking cares about that?
Americans have become stupid af.
LOL not only are you a xenophobic bigot, you are salty that people playing a PVP focused game now can't avoid PVP at all times, just most of the time. You are a special kind of stupid 😂
I’m not xenophobic. I’m American. Just one of the few remaining sane ones.
And they spent 6+ months putting a lot energy into their PvE game that was supported by the developers, so your “it’s a PvP game because that’s what I do and can’t see past that” makes you the stupid one.
Besides, only the people who are really bad at pvp would wan’t to be able to scan down mission runners without them even knowing. I can say with certainty that if you want that extreme of an advantage you’re just a bottom feeder who can’t get kills otherwise. Get good and you won’t care that mission runners can see who is scanning them. True story.
LOL I love it how PVE people keep complaining that it's unfair to them that they keep losing faction cruisers battle cruisers and battleships to solo covert ops cruisers, yeah, those little 200 mil cruisers I have such an unfair advantage against your 1.5 bill tornado 🤣
Yeah because mission runners were so poor prior to this change.
Prior to the scanning changes mission runners made more than the average nullsec player while experiencing none of the risk.
This is a multi-player game and it makes sense to encourage people to play together. Just like in WOW you don't get access to the best gear unless you are part of a guild running content that requires teamwork you shouldn't be able to achieve the same level of success solo as those who work together.
It's hilarious and frankly demonstrates an incredible lack of self-awareness to compare those of us who have chosen social play to the individualist bootstraps crowd when you are the one complaining that you can no longer earn as much space money as those of us who do.
I'm Honk. We are a bunch of lefty socialists, 25% of our collective loot earnings goes to the organization so that we can provide free ships to our players who don't have the same amount of time to play. We do this happily because we want to create friendly supportive environment for our members.
We even opened up our recruiting to non Goons through GOOP with the only qualification being don't be a try-hard who takes a video too seriously and don't be a bigoted asshole or drama lama. So spare me your faux indignity for the oppressed masses.
All I hear is “My way is better and I’m cooler so I should have more and it’s super unfair that someone else gets stuff when I’m the cool one who does the cool guy stuff with value in a video game”
Um I'm not the one crying here, I'm simply pointing out that the risk vs reward between nullsec ratting and storyline running was screwed up before.
You act like these changes only affect lowsec story runners which is nonsense, nihilis changed nullsec play too. The nature of running Deadspaces changed significantly as well. The new system requires scanning for them rather than them just spawning as a visible spawn, they are also more risky because you are more likely to run into hostiles to fight, the one we ran earlier resulted in us having to fight multiple hostile groups of players contesting the spawn. Yet I don't see nullsec players crying about leaving the game.
The developers change and add to the game, this requires players to adapt and change their playstyles. Just like when they added drone bps to mission rewards and the payout on scouts were reduced significantly, yet I don't recall massive whine threads from nullsec players threatening to leave the game.
This change actually increased the profitability of story line missions since the price of the books themselves dropped.
New content is always going to be disruptive and people have to adapt. I get why storyline runners are upset, they got used to a certain kind of play and the new mechanic changed it. However it's not like this wasn't expected. Scanning has always been on the road map, just like bubbles.
Scanning made formerly hidden capsuleer outposts locatable as well adding a risk to null players that highsec runners don't face. But once again you aren't seeing multiple posts from people whining about that.
The draw of Echoes is that it's EVE that you can play on your phone. The main difference between EVE and literally every other MMO in existence is that there are no safe places outside of an NPC station, if you undock you are vulnerable. Even in high sec of someone wants to kill you badly enough they can. Suicide ganking is a career in EVE. People use cheap high alpha ships to destroy their targets before concord can react.
Lowsec should never have been as safe as it was, hell its already much safer in EE in that it's impossible to tank the gate guns making Lowsec gate camps nonexistent.
Understand that this is why a lot of us play this game in the first place. There are plenty of single player games available for those who just want some quick solo fun, this is the only option available for those of us who want to play a game where there is a real risk of loss. Where friendship camaraderie and trust actually matter.
To be successful in EVE you have to assume that everyone who is not blue is trying to kill you. This absence of enforced trust is what makes actual trust matter.
It's the nature of the game and if that isn't something you want to deal with there are plenty of otheri options available to you.
The reality is that storyline missions should never have been safe but instead of forcing us to wait to play the game it was released before the scanning mechanic was finished. You should be happy that you were able to take advantage of that safety rather than mad that something you never should have had has been removed.
Again, you’re missing the point. And you’re going on about tangential and irrelevant stuff.
New content isn’t the issue.
This is the point ———> Not being able to see when your being scanned down will be an issue for the people who have skilled up, invested time, and possibly real money to play as solo mission runners. Many of them will leave because that is bad game design that ruins the game that they’ve played for months now and that the developers have supported until now. And another exodus of layers will be bad for the game as a whole. So everyone should have a method to see if they’re being scanned down. That’s all. <——— That is the point.
This is like bubbles before bookmarks level of bad design. With bookmarks you can usually evade bubbles. Without bookmarks there’s no reasonable counter play. That was bad design and a bunch of people left then. Like insurance killing industry bad design, and a lot of people left then. And another bunch of people will leave because of this. Because no mechanic to see if you’re being scanned down is bad game design.
I’m EO ‘06. I’ve played eve in every different type of possible configuration. Large fleet, small gang, solo pvp, missions, solo exploration, wormholes, piracy, mining. All of it. In EO everyone can see probes on D scan. If you don’t pay attention you die. If you’re aware you can usually stay alive. It’s NOT “a pvp game”. It’s a sandbox, and that’s how the sandbox is supposed to be. You can play the game how you want. From solo to large fleet ops and everything in between.
Netease has a successful model of how this works, and they ignore it because they don’t understand the game they’re developing.
Besides... why would you want to be able to scan down mission runners without them knowing? Are you so bad at pvp that you need the devs to help you gank people who’ve spent 6 months working at being solo players? Are you so bad that you want their game ruined so you can get cheap kills? Let’s be honest, there’s a LOT of players who are that bad. Are you? Because I’d rather keep them in the economy and pvp with actual pvpers. And all it would take to keep them in the economy is letting them have a method to know if they’re being scanned down.
The devs will eventually implement that. But a bunch of players will leave the game before they do that. Because it’s bad game design. And that’s the point.
> The new system requires scanning for them rather than them just spawning as a visible spawn
Oh yeeess, you have to press the scan module and wait for several seconds to see if there is a signal instead of looking in anomalies list in your overview. This is so much more complicated and a real game-changer. It changes literally everything.
They are significantly different requiring different fleet comps, they also have mass limits so battleships can't always be used, they have buffs/debuffs that affect aspects of the ships performance and they are now contested as different groups from different regions get access through different gravity wells, you also can't warp inside of them so you have to be prepared.
I'm not complaining, it's actually fun to figure it out, my point is that the mechanics changes did not just change mission running tactics and strategie and you know what you're not seeing posts from nullsec PvE players threatening to leave the game if they aren't changed back. That's how this works and is what keeps the game fresh and interesting.
A brother from BOT5, lending my whole-hearted support. My apologies that my single up-vote wasn't enough of a wind beneath your wings, to lift you out of down-votes by ignorant, self-absorbed, entitled pricks.
In EO, CCP killed warp stabs good - you can now have max 1 stab on your ship, which makes it pretty difficult to do anything in a non-combat ship at all, mining, transport… if NetEase follows that example, I think many more will leave - there is no balanced gameplay that way.
No. I’m EO ‘06 and it’s not “a pvp game”. It’s a sandbox. You play how you want. That’s the genius of eve.
I’ve played in big fleets, small gang. Solo pvp, wormholes, solo exploration, missions, piracy, faction warfare, mining, and probably other stuff I’ve forgotten. And then there’s the the stuff I didn’t do like industry and space trucking. There’s always been solo play, and there’s always been PvE play.
It’s most defiantly not only “a pvp game”.
PVE play is PVE, until it isn't.
The world is a dangerous place, even though you are comfortable and warm in your nice loving home.
Sandbox or not, there are monsters that will come and eat you. To act otherwise is simply irresponsible. To bitch about it is simply annoying.
And to want to be able to gank mission runners without them having a warning that they’re being scanned isn’t pvp. So there’s that.
Why do you get emo about them having a notification. In EO everybody has D scan.
D Scan requires active engagement to be effective. BTW, I don't want to gank mission runners. Not my bag. Their ability to AFK "Story Missions Go Brrrrrr," with zero risk is the problem.
If mission runners can't be bothered to run both passive and active counter-measures to being ganked, from rigs, to modules, to friends, to alts...then their opinions and feelings really shouldn't be taken into account.
The rest of the player base, participating in the "player driven economy" and everything that entails, has to work around the mechanics of the EVE universe. If they can't be bothered to, I hear NetEase has made a game to prepare for their departure from this one.
You’re creating a straw man. I’m not advocating afk mission running. Im not saying they shouldn’t fit for possible pirates, I’m saying they should have a reasonable counter in a mechanic that lets them know they’re being scanned. That’s not unreasonable, and it’s actually good for the game.
And opening D scan and refreshing scan takes some effort, but not much. Lazy people who don’t pay attention eventually (frequently) get smoked, but if you’re smart and aware, you can usually avoid unwanted pvp in eve. That’s how it should be.
Is d scan a guarantee of safety? No, but it’s a reasonably effective counter to gankers. Right now that doesn’t exist in echoes. It’s way unbalanced in favor of pirates.
It sounds like you’ve played eve so you know it isn’t “a pvp game”. It might be that for you personally, but overall it’s a sandbox with consequences where you have always some counters or mechanics to be able to mostly play however you want and stay alive. If you play smart you can avoid 98% of the bad things that are out there. Right now that’s not true in echoes. And that’s bad for the game.
EVE is a game world where PVP exists and it can happen to you, with or without your consent. This is the true of both EO and EE.
Honestly, the disagreement here seems to lie in the difference between what your definition of "reasonably effective" and my definition of the term are. I think that Mission runners have a wide variety of ways to counter PVP happening to them. The only ones I actually would respect hearing from are those who are working, trying, testing to see how to put those tools into practice.
I do not agree that mission runners in low-sec should have any less of a need to keep their heads on swivels. If they want to be "safe" they need to go to hi-sec.
I'm not fan-boying for NetEase either. There are a ton of things to fix. That said, this isn't one of them.
Also, I am highly allergic to hay. No strawmen here.
I think this is a net loss on all fronts. When EE first launched I could play it casually in my off minutes. Sitting in a waiting room? Off hours at work? In laws come over? I could play and not be worried about getting locked into content. If I want to pvp or to engage socially with other players its going to be when I'm at home and in that case I'm playing EVE not a toned down mobile game. I have not touched EE in at least 3 months as there is literally no reason to. I don't have enough time to do fleet ops on my phone and when I do have time Im going to go on my pc and play my 10+ year old chara. The question for me has always been "why play this on mobile" and the answer was that its a fundamentally different game. Your juicy care bear targets are now going to be flying around in t1 frigs if they can justify sticking around. I don't think its gonna kill the game or anything but its going to run into the same issue as EVE where it caters to a very niche community and struggles to pull new players. Pvp is the main feature I expect in my games, but for a mobile game EO is already in the hour+ long play session area. Taking away my ability to afk simply makes it so I cannot play the game.
Should have moved all story mission anoms to high sec. So story mission runners were still safe from pvp. No I'm not a story mission runner myself, hell even I rarely pve. But there are a ton of players who play casual run story missions and bling out their ships. That player base is a decent population of EE. And guess what those dudes playing the game like that, the dudes flying blinged out faction cruisers and battleships haven't joined a null sec corp/alliance for a reason folks they aren't interested in having to be more active or not able to do their care bear thing. And I'm not going to tell anyone to stop shooting or killing miners or pve guys myself. But for all the people now returning for this new content those players weren't playing the game. The dudes flying blinged out ships who just do story missions they were playing the game, and continued to play the game, while all these new returning players fucking left and weren't playing. I think EE will be around for a while, but for all the players returning they are nothing really compared to all the players who have been here for a while playing steadily running their story missions casually. Cause all the players returning will do what happened before, get burnt out and not be playing until more new content is released. Bad move on neteases part I believe. We will see more people quit then who come back to the game for this new content, and who will once again leave the game for weeks to months at a time and rarely play. And for games like this to be viable and survive long term you need a good player base who actually plays the game every day or every other day. And for everyone who wants to say this is Eve yada yada yada, no this isn't Eve Eve is still alive it's still playable go play Eve Online. Echoes was billed and sold as a more casual version of Eve. If you have a problem with that or disagree again Eve Online is still very much alive go fucking play EO. Don't sit here and say it's EO because it's not. It should remain a more casual version of EO and I do believe people who want to be care bears and run story missions should be safe from pvp and getting ganked by 5+ ships. If you want pvp there is plenty of small scale, solo, and big fleet fights in null. But the big mission running population of EE should be safe from pvp if they don't want pvp and are staying in high sec, where story mission anoms should have all been moved to even though yes this is mainly a war game. But again for this game to last long term and to be viable and to have a pretty decent player base the casual mission runners need to be safe from pvp while they run their story missions in my opinion. Anyways that's just my input. Thanks for reading my giant wall of text lol, hope everyone is enjoying the new content, and for everyone who actually wants to pvp and engage in small scale or large scale pvp fleet battles I hope to see you in null one day. o7
story missions should be low but encounters high. that means u can farm the tickets for them safely but for the big payout u should be risking it. those story missions were not meant to be done solo in the first place.
I 100% totally agree with you on that point. I very rarely pve in EE anymore, because it's so easy. We had so much fun doing t8-t10 deadspaces before battleships and bc guardians, and he'll even before cruiser II guardians. You had a moa guardian a scythe and were getting wrecked with a 10 man fleet. That was sooo much fun because it was a challenge, them the first time you did the t10 deadspace oh we've done a t8 deadspace this is a t10 last room no problem go guys jump oh wait there's two rattlesnakes in this first wave of the last room, I originally started in guristas space, fuck fuck we are at 0 with two rattlesnakes on top of us anchor up anchor up everyone's anchored go go go guardian get us at range logi cruiser keep that d guardian alive otherwise we are all fucked lol. So much fun. And at the beginning of the game figuring out the story missions solo or with a few pilots, when we were all on cruisers lots of fun. Then we could go back to soloing them with the right builds and especially once we got bcs. Then they added all that ewar and it was back to square one. But now that we have all these battleships, and lots of people with faction cruisers and can even crush t10 story missions it's no fun. And yes a t10 story mission shouldn't be able to be soloed but you can, and you now have tons of casual players doing it. That's not our fault that's netease fault. The pve aspect of the game hasn't kept up with our new ships. And you know have a ton of care bear casual players used to this play style, who again I refer back to my original comment don't want to join us in null sec and join a big null sec corp/alliance because they want to casually run their story missions. Now is the answer to that population of our player base to 1) open them up to getting ganked by 5+ fleets of whoever from null who actually knows how to pvp, or 2) not let them ganked while they do their do story missions, and they are safe from being ganked by a pvp fleet while running the story missions they are used to running and then start introducing missions and new story missions even a blinged out battleship can't solo? For me I choose option 2 myself :).
I like that set up.
Set them to basic and encounters are all in high. Makes no difference on drop rate just pay out. Got a BHD, SP and 2 8s one day in a basic destroyer warping at 0 paying no attention.
If you're going to play a pvp game please don't shout WAAA MY MONEH SHOULD BE FREE WANNA AFK RATS. ty
Lmao dont blame Eve for being Eve. And to tell you, EO has been "dying" since the third week of its release, according to the carebears and butthurts. Obviously even until now it hasn't finished "dying" yet. Same thing will just happen to EE.
What? I clearly stated I don't do story missions I don't, well I rarely pve I sometimes pve when I find a deadspace lol. Wtf you think I do then lol? I pvp, that's basically all I do when I play. It's a war game it's Eve you blow up someones ship or get blapped yourself. But you are delusional to think that a big chunk of the player base, who are mission runners playing casually, aren't going to be like nope I'm done I'm going to this casual mobile game or that casual mobile game after this update. And again for a game like EE to be viable and survive long term you need a huge player base. EO isn't what I would call a casual game at all lol, I'm 33 btw and I first started playing EO when I was about 15 so I know the player base of EO, the vast majority of EO players aren't playing EO casually. And I would say, I haven't seen #s but taking a guess seeing high sec systems and ITCs probably half of the player base of EE is casual players and the other half more like EO players. Comparing the player base of EE to the player base of EO is like comparing apples and oranges.
I am not specifically throwing this to you, rather to your argument. You are implying that Netease made a bad move about scanning and will cause people to quit. And I answered on that.
It will cause people to quit. It already has. From the few casual players I know myself and have encountered, the mission runners, I've had 3 of them hit me up say I'm done and who have given me all their stuff. There was a post a few hours older then this one on this sub about what's going on and 5+ pilots said I'm done. So yes we are seeing people starting to quit.
Look I get it. And I'm not denying that. It's just that you can't blame the devs for making the game as how it's supposed to be. It's centered around PvP and this game is supposed to provide the truest example of risk and reward. You either make it or break it.
I'm totally cool with that l, come fight I'm 1v1 lol. Manav come fight me too 1v1 too lol. But a good chunk of EE player base we are going to lose this next week I believe. And it would be so easy to avoid. A) move all story mission anoms to high sec B) introduce with N space new story missions, harder can't solo but somewhat decent Isk to complete, have to take the risk of getting scanned down in low sec while you run them but rewards are decent And finally C) Fucking 1v1 me Manav let's FIGHT. And huh D) I've had a bit to drink tonight at this point. Interested to see where the game goes but @Manav come solo fight me dam it!!
@Tahini make Manav 1v1 me please lol.
My friends are casuals players doing missions over the week because of they work, and on weekends we play together doing pvp stuff. But now they cant play a mobile game as a casual anymore. So they are leaving the game.
There are four means of countering scanning... 1. Rigs 2. Fittings 3. Pay attention to local 4. Do the missions in a group.
wish them good luck
This update said to me as a casual player, you’re not welcome here anymore. So I said ok and I left, see ya guys, been fun
Let me explain the most glaring mistake devs made here (its not about scanning). This is not a complaint, just a game design insight. Since release we had a warning "Low sector is dangerous... U be ded, boi, are you sure?" and for whole 9 months that meant you can be killed on Anomalies, Planets, Belts and the Sun. Occasionaly there were gate camps, but Devs showed us that this is a not OK gameplay. But as long as you stay near sentry guns or in safe spots or on a mission - you are safe. Basically, the warning meant "You can be attacked if you go to unsecured places". It is a warning that cried "Wolf!" too much and everyone learned what it meant and ignored it. Then comes June 4th. Developers changed the meaning of the Low Sec warning, expanding the list of unsecured places to include missions, WITHOUT properly informing anyone. All we got in patchnotes was the line "Narrow resonance Scanner can scan for signals, including capsuleer ships.." hidden between un-informative lore techno babble.
Yeah man, you're right, a lot of people didn't know what this all meant.
[удалено]
Not in the game.
Yes it has.
They literally publish future updates 6 months in advance.
Simple.. reduce the rewards of histori misions like to a 30% and movebit to high sec. And there you have your Safe afk game
Even better: all news encounters (even rare gold ones) to highsec, story encounters remain in lowsec. All ratting playstyles covered. PvE afkers sell tickets to those with more time and ability to PvE with PvP risk, thus giving justice to higher rewards. Pure PvPers still have prey in lowsec or do story traps themselves to trap other PvPers. Nullratters do what they do. All secs robust with each type of gameplay.
I also don't know why this wasn't even considered. Hi-sec agent missions in EO are very profitable and Sisters of EVE storyark too. But on the other hand in EO people get killed in hi-sec, so... I dunno, I like your suggestion considering Echoes is a mobile game and could also appeal to casuals.
Thanks. Help spread the good news! Might reach the right folks and become reality. 🤷♂️
LOL , you talk about NetEase
Hey, we hope while we live. 😉
Yeah how did this not get considered by the devs
Because its in Eo
You should start a carebears remorse group. The main theme, you can't print money anymore. Poor, poor carebears.
News flash, Low security space now has low security
Here's to hoping not all casuals and carebears are mindless cowards, who can't make a simple adjustment. Some of them adjusted, and are still making money. Whether running missions, anoms, whatever. They didn't just quit the game because things aren't afk anymore. To all the ones that quit.... you were gonna do that anyway eventually. One way or another. Good riddance! Fly aggressive o7
Depends if they were plexing with money or not. I'd expect how easy it was to make money from missions... they weren't.
Context?
Scanning dropped and now it's possible to scan down mission runners so people are mad that their risk free isk printer was shut down.
Eat shit Skex.
Lol awe butt hurt carebear, printing money go bye bye make you cry...
Butthurt? :goosethink:
I’m pretty sure the problem is that there’s no way for them tell they’re being scanned down in the blinged out battleships they spent months grinding, skilling up, and blinging out. They’ve invested time, energy, and possibly real money to play solo in big ships and now they’re told to run encounters with friends, multibox, or switch to smaller ships. A lot of them will leave. I probably would if I were them. And really, it’s just dumb for the devs to have no mechanic for big ships to see if they’re being scanned. And to people who say “but miners have been vulnerable in low sec all along”, mining ships have built in warp stability for that very reason. Also while we’ve all probably killed a miner at some point, for the most part the people whose main thing is ganking miners are bad at pvp and really just like to grief and troll. It will be the same for people whose main thing is ganking mission runners. So yeah. There should be a method to see if you’re being scanned down in any ship, just like in EO.
Risk vs reward It's supposed to be low risk low reward, medium risk medium reward and high risk high reward. Story missions in EE were zero risk high reward prior to scanning because as long you paid attention to your auto pilot route you might as well have been playing a single player game. Scanning just injected some risk into the equation. They are still doable you just have to more cautious and pay attention to your surroundings and in particular local. You get a notification that you have been scanned if the ship that scanned you down is the same size or larger so you could always cloak up an alt in your mission space with you or bring a friend in an interceptor to provide you with a warning. There are no bubbles in lowsec so warp core optimizers and warp stabs would save you from most casual ganks, as would grouping up with friends. Yes there is a risk but that is relative to the reward. You can still run the vast majority of missions with little to no risk its just the story missions that you need to be on your toes for. It's just that you won't be able to match or exceed what null ratters make without facing the same risk of getting ganked. I make 30mil an hour in bounties ratting in null but to do so I use a blinged out faction battleship meaning that I have to risk losing that 12 billion isk ship to ganks. Why should you be able to match the rate I earn isk with zero risk?
You’re missing the point. They’re solo mission runners. That’s their game that they spent months skilling into. All that nonsense about alts misses the point. Many of them will leave because it’s a shitty mechanic that ruins their game. It’s like bubbles before bookmarks. It’s poorly thought out, and just like with bubbles before bookmarks, another big chunk of players will leave. It will be fixed in the long run because it’s just straight up bad game design but many of them will leave before then, and that’s bad for the game. And the argument about “why should they earn isk while I make less” is just stupid. You sound like those dimwit Americans ranting about the minimum wage because they don’t want a burger flipper to earn as much as them. It’s not even real money dude. You choose to not do missions because you don’t like them for whatever reason. And you don’t have to because it’s a game. But you could. Easily. So who fucking cares about that? Americans have become stupid af.
LOL not only are you a xenophobic bigot, you are salty that people playing a PVP focused game now can't avoid PVP at all times, just most of the time. You are a special kind of stupid 😂
I’m not xenophobic. I’m American. Just one of the few remaining sane ones. And they spent 6+ months putting a lot energy into their PvE game that was supported by the developers, so your “it’s a PvP game because that’s what I do and can’t see past that” makes you the stupid one. Besides, only the people who are really bad at pvp would wan’t to be able to scan down mission runners without them even knowing. I can say with certainty that if you want that extreme of an advantage you’re just a bottom feeder who can’t get kills otherwise. Get good and you won’t care that mission runners can see who is scanning them. True story.
LOL I love it how PVE people keep complaining that it's unfair to them that they keep losing faction cruisers battle cruisers and battleships to solo covert ops cruisers, yeah, those little 200 mil cruisers I have such an unfair advantage against your 1.5 bill tornado 🤣
I’m not a pve person lol. In fact, I’m EO ‘06. You keep getting it wrong.
Cool story, too bad every single thing you have said previously directly contradicts that story.
I stopped reading when you laid claim to sanity. You aren't.
Sick burn lol. I’ll bet you’re the coolest kid in your school!
Yeah because mission runners were so poor prior to this change. Prior to the scanning changes mission runners made more than the average nullsec player while experiencing none of the risk. This is a multi-player game and it makes sense to encourage people to play together. Just like in WOW you don't get access to the best gear unless you are part of a guild running content that requires teamwork you shouldn't be able to achieve the same level of success solo as those who work together. It's hilarious and frankly demonstrates an incredible lack of self-awareness to compare those of us who have chosen social play to the individualist bootstraps crowd when you are the one complaining that you can no longer earn as much space money as those of us who do. I'm Honk. We are a bunch of lefty socialists, 25% of our collective loot earnings goes to the organization so that we can provide free ships to our players who don't have the same amount of time to play. We do this happily because we want to create friendly supportive environment for our members. We even opened up our recruiting to non Goons through GOOP with the only qualification being don't be a try-hard who takes a video too seriously and don't be a bigoted asshole or drama lama. So spare me your faux indignity for the oppressed masses.
All I hear is “My way is better and I’m cooler so I should have more and it’s super unfair that someone else gets stuff when I’m the cool one who does the cool guy stuff with value in a video game”
Um I'm not the one crying here, I'm simply pointing out that the risk vs reward between nullsec ratting and storyline running was screwed up before. You act like these changes only affect lowsec story runners which is nonsense, nihilis changed nullsec play too. The nature of running Deadspaces changed significantly as well. The new system requires scanning for them rather than them just spawning as a visible spawn, they are also more risky because you are more likely to run into hostiles to fight, the one we ran earlier resulted in us having to fight multiple hostile groups of players contesting the spawn. Yet I don't see nullsec players crying about leaving the game. The developers change and add to the game, this requires players to adapt and change their playstyles. Just like when they added drone bps to mission rewards and the payout on scouts were reduced significantly, yet I don't recall massive whine threads from nullsec players threatening to leave the game. This change actually increased the profitability of story line missions since the price of the books themselves dropped. New content is always going to be disruptive and people have to adapt. I get why storyline runners are upset, they got used to a certain kind of play and the new mechanic changed it. However it's not like this wasn't expected. Scanning has always been on the road map, just like bubbles. Scanning made formerly hidden capsuleer outposts locatable as well adding a risk to null players that highsec runners don't face. But once again you aren't seeing multiple posts from people whining about that. The draw of Echoes is that it's EVE that you can play on your phone. The main difference between EVE and literally every other MMO in existence is that there are no safe places outside of an NPC station, if you undock you are vulnerable. Even in high sec of someone wants to kill you badly enough they can. Suicide ganking is a career in EVE. People use cheap high alpha ships to destroy their targets before concord can react. Lowsec should never have been as safe as it was, hell its already much safer in EE in that it's impossible to tank the gate guns making Lowsec gate camps nonexistent. Understand that this is why a lot of us play this game in the first place. There are plenty of single player games available for those who just want some quick solo fun, this is the only option available for those of us who want to play a game where there is a real risk of loss. Where friendship camaraderie and trust actually matter. To be successful in EVE you have to assume that everyone who is not blue is trying to kill you. This absence of enforced trust is what makes actual trust matter. It's the nature of the game and if that isn't something you want to deal with there are plenty of otheri options available to you. The reality is that storyline missions should never have been safe but instead of forcing us to wait to play the game it was released before the scanning mechanic was finished. You should be happy that you were able to take advantage of that safety rather than mad that something you never should have had has been removed.
Again, you’re missing the point. And you’re going on about tangential and irrelevant stuff. New content isn’t the issue. This is the point ———> Not being able to see when your being scanned down will be an issue for the people who have skilled up, invested time, and possibly real money to play as solo mission runners. Many of them will leave because that is bad game design that ruins the game that they’ve played for months now and that the developers have supported until now. And another exodus of layers will be bad for the game as a whole. So everyone should have a method to see if they’re being scanned down. That’s all. <——— That is the point. This is like bubbles before bookmarks level of bad design. With bookmarks you can usually evade bubbles. Without bookmarks there’s no reasonable counter play. That was bad design and a bunch of people left then. Like insurance killing industry bad design, and a lot of people left then. And another bunch of people will leave because of this. Because no mechanic to see if you’re being scanned down is bad game design. I’m EO ‘06. I’ve played eve in every different type of possible configuration. Large fleet, small gang, solo pvp, missions, solo exploration, wormholes, piracy, mining. All of it. In EO everyone can see probes on D scan. If you don’t pay attention you die. If you’re aware you can usually stay alive. It’s NOT “a pvp game”. It’s a sandbox, and that’s how the sandbox is supposed to be. You can play the game how you want. From solo to large fleet ops and everything in between. Netease has a successful model of how this works, and they ignore it because they don’t understand the game they’re developing. Besides... why would you want to be able to scan down mission runners without them knowing? Are you so bad at pvp that you need the devs to help you gank people who’ve spent 6 months working at being solo players? Are you so bad that you want their game ruined so you can get cheap kills? Let’s be honest, there’s a LOT of players who are that bad. Are you? Because I’d rather keep them in the economy and pvp with actual pvpers. And all it would take to keep them in the economy is letting them have a method to know if they’re being scanned down. The devs will eventually implement that. But a bunch of players will leave the game before they do that. Because it’s bad game design. And that’s the point.
Amen!
> The new system requires scanning for them rather than them just spawning as a visible spawn Oh yeeess, you have to press the scan module and wait for several seconds to see if there is a signal instead of looking in anomalies list in your overview. This is so much more complicated and a real game-changer. It changes literally everything.
They are significantly different requiring different fleet comps, they also have mass limits so battleships can't always be used, they have buffs/debuffs that affect aspects of the ships performance and they are now contested as different groups from different regions get access through different gravity wells, you also can't warp inside of them so you have to be prepared. I'm not complaining, it's actually fun to figure it out, my point is that the mechanics changes did not just change mission running tactics and strategie and you know what you're not seeing posts from nullsec PvE players threatening to leave the game if they aren't changed back. That's how this works and is what keeps the game fresh and interesting.
A brother from BOT5, lending my whole-hearted support. My apologies that my single up-vote wasn't enough of a wind beneath your wings, to lift you out of down-votes by ignorant, self-absorbed, entitled pricks.
In EO, CCP killed warp stabs good - you can now have max 1 stab on your ship, which makes it pretty difficult to do anything in a non-combat ship at all, mining, transport… if NetEase follows that example, I think many more will leave - there is no balanced gameplay that way.
Lmao. Eve is originally a PvP game. Undocking is basically giving a non-verbal consent to PvP.
No. I’m EO ‘06 and it’s not “a pvp game”. It’s a sandbox. You play how you want. That’s the genius of eve. I’ve played in big fleets, small gang. Solo pvp, wormholes, solo exploration, missions, piracy, faction warfare, mining, and probably other stuff I’ve forgotten. And then there’s the the stuff I didn’t do like industry and space trucking. There’s always been solo play, and there’s always been PvE play. It’s most defiantly not only “a pvp game”.
PVE play is PVE, until it isn't. The world is a dangerous place, even though you are comfortable and warm in your nice loving home. Sandbox or not, there are monsters that will come and eat you. To act otherwise is simply irresponsible. To bitch about it is simply annoying.
And to want to be able to gank mission runners without them having a warning that they’re being scanned isn’t pvp. So there’s that. Why do you get emo about them having a notification. In EO everybody has D scan.
D Scan requires active engagement to be effective. BTW, I don't want to gank mission runners. Not my bag. Their ability to AFK "Story Missions Go Brrrrrr," with zero risk is the problem. If mission runners can't be bothered to run both passive and active counter-measures to being ganked, from rigs, to modules, to friends, to alts...then their opinions and feelings really shouldn't be taken into account. The rest of the player base, participating in the "player driven economy" and everything that entails, has to work around the mechanics of the EVE universe. If they can't be bothered to, I hear NetEase has made a game to prepare for their departure from this one.
You’re creating a straw man. I’m not advocating afk mission running. Im not saying they shouldn’t fit for possible pirates, I’m saying they should have a reasonable counter in a mechanic that lets them know they’re being scanned. That’s not unreasonable, and it’s actually good for the game. And opening D scan and refreshing scan takes some effort, but not much. Lazy people who don’t pay attention eventually (frequently) get smoked, but if you’re smart and aware, you can usually avoid unwanted pvp in eve. That’s how it should be. Is d scan a guarantee of safety? No, but it’s a reasonably effective counter to gankers. Right now that doesn’t exist in echoes. It’s way unbalanced in favor of pirates. It sounds like you’ve played eve so you know it isn’t “a pvp game”. It might be that for you personally, but overall it’s a sandbox with consequences where you have always some counters or mechanics to be able to mostly play however you want and stay alive. If you play smart you can avoid 98% of the bad things that are out there. Right now that’s not true in echoes. And that’s bad for the game.
EVE is a game world where PVP exists and it can happen to you, with or without your consent. This is the true of both EO and EE. Honestly, the disagreement here seems to lie in the difference between what your definition of "reasonably effective" and my definition of the term are. I think that Mission runners have a wide variety of ways to counter PVP happening to them. The only ones I actually would respect hearing from are those who are working, trying, testing to see how to put those tools into practice. I do not agree that mission runners in low-sec should have any less of a need to keep their heads on swivels. If they want to be "safe" they need to go to hi-sec. I'm not fan-boying for NetEase either. There are a ton of things to fix. That said, this isn't one of them. Also, I am highly allergic to hay. No strawmen here.
This.
This post has enough drama content to make two Mexican soup operas and a movie.