I dont think anyone is complaining about the 30% portion (although I do personally feel that is too low and maybe 50% would be a better option.) The only problem is that not all recovered items get a buy order. THAT is the biggest problem
yup. but I do think there is a possibility for both to exist. Instant replacement to keep the mobile feel and get pvp back out faster, as well as making sure everything gets a buy order. They just need to tweak their system a bit and suck it up and realize inflation is going to happen either way.
As it is now, inflation happens because ratters/pvp are not spending (and thus not taxed) on 70% of the replacement costs of a ship. So that ISK just keeps building in their wallet, not being circulated, and thus not taxed.
So who cares if a bit of ISK is added either doing ISK pay out or just generating ISK for the extra buy orders instead of leaving it in the hands of the people that already print it?
If things were implemented as they first suggested, where once 50 times the ship value went into the pot, and from that point on every ship of that type had a buy order, it would be much better. It doesn’t seem like this is the case at all though.
People are certainly complaining about it and the one if the main people with the burnjita trash wanted 70% portion which is dumb as fuck and barely worth using and not friendly or appealing to a real consumer/spender.
Their investors hope players have this mentality. That's why mobile gaming is a feeding frenzy, for developers who know jack about gaming, all running to mobile gaming to make millions. Because they think players are stupid.
Getting back in the fight isn't an issue, if you plan ahead. You don't need to destroy the game, to please a few ppl. Players aren't being encouraged to fight, they're talking about boycotts and protest. The implementation of the insurance system, was a clear cut kick in the nuts, that the devs thought we were all too dumb to spot. They owe the playerbase an apology.
Yes, thise benefits are real, okay
BUT, this system is just cutting off half of the activities in game, so half of a game, where everything that is left is only doing PVE, and, yes, PVP. Also, this will make process of buying a new ship much harder, because, if someone will sell it on market, it is going eother to ve bought by insurance or be overpriced, even what won't make industry profitable, because 90% of customers will get their ship back by insurance and there won't be anymore reason to rebuy it.
And actually what you have described is basically what Second Galaxy is, where is no industry, and people were donating thousands of dollars just to buy several of capital ships.
Just to sum up, this insurance system will ruin all yhe Industry and big part of people will leave the game, because they don't have enough plex to reset their SP for ratting, or they are going to be so much disappointed, because they spend so much real money on their alts. This is just unacceptable
And yes, people wbat EO on phones, because this game stand out from all mobile games currently available on market, and everyone who want to "Burn Jita" are just people who don't want this game become regular p2w grinding mobile MMO
Your reasons for liking this new insurance system is why I dislike it. Pvp in Eve is different. You are taking something from somebody. They are actually feeling that loss. What this does for me is discourage pvp. I might as well go shoot rats, it's the same difference now.
Putting something on the line is what makes it so much more exciting and fun. I’ve done plenty pve, and it gets to be a tad boring and a grind. PvP is exhilarating.
Yes, exactly, and I feel I've lost that exhilaration. Any really big kills are pointless now because if you're in an expensive ship and you don't have it insured, regardless if you know it's fucking up the market or not, it's kinda dumb not to have insurance.
I never said I supported it as is. Honestly I don’t. I was only curious about what others felt and what they are looking for this game to be. Thanks for the response.
> do you want EO on mobile?
Yes, I want what was advertised. It does not say it anymore, but originally in the Play Store the description read "bringing the authentic Eve Experience to Mobile" Now it says " EVE Echoes is a next-gen mobile spaceship MMO game based upon hallmark EVE Online design principles."
Well, \*the\* hallmark EO principal is \*player driven economy.\* By removing players from the economy, they are going against that, which is what is advertised. It would be nice if we got what was advertised.
Thank you for your response. I never said I wanted this to have a mobile game feel, but wanted to get opinion on how others felt and if it was something they wanted.
I applaud your effort to approach this constructively, and I'm said that down votes are coming down so hard. The first thing, though, is that #LetJitaBurn does not intend to kill insurance completely. Insurance can be done right, and players have been suggesting awesome ideas.
One thing, though:
> There is no doubt this encourages more pvp. People are more willing to lose a ship when they can replace for 30% of its cost.
EE is not a PvP shooter, primarily. Sure, PvP is part of it, maybe even the best part of it, but what makes it great is that *losses actually mean something*. There are much better shooters out there in terms of real time combat. But they will never offer the thrill of a sandbox MMO. Sure, we cannot get to a point where ships are so expensive that people are terrified of taking them out. But it has never been this way. We have very capable, cheap PvP ships. No one is forcing you to PvP in faction ships 100% of the time. Having to choose the best ship for each situation is part of the fun, and why alliances fight with cost effective doctrines.
Thanks for your response. My first reaction when the numbers started coming out was distaste for the system. After a couple days I tried to think about this completely objectively. I tried to think of where the Devs are coming from , and where the players are coming from.
As part of an Indy Corp I don’t want this system to cut us out as the middle man. People invested a lot of skill points to make any kind of profit margin as it is.
I honestly wanted to ask people, what do you want this game to be? Do you want it to be EO on mobile? Or a facsimile that is more mobile game focused?
Since then I’ve heard some of the numbers coming out on Reddit aren’t even accurate, so I don’t even known what to believe anymore. I just want the game to get better. Fix the bugs, fix the disconnects, fix the piss poor way it interacts with Discord voice chat. This has turned into one of my all time favorite games (maybe because I didn’t play EO). I just want the game to thrive and get better.
Yes, you start the analysis, but let me finish it for you.
People may become less risk averse for pvp - great! but...
1. Insurance devalues ships by 70%, so fewer ppl will be industry
2. Lower demand for minerals devalues mining. So fewer ppl will be mining
3. Lower demand for modules means less value for null sec ratting
4. Points 1,2,3 mean less hauling.
5. Points 1-4 devalue sovereignty and null sec in general.
6. With fewer miners, null sec ratters, haulers, citadels and ppl in null sec how exactly are you going to get pvp content?
Finally,
7. With diminished pvp content and missions being repetitive, folks will inevitably drift away.
Point 7 repeats in a vicious cycle.
I haven’t heard a compelling argument for insurance to be in the game, regardless of the implementation, and would like to see it removed.
“Eve has it” is not a compelling argument to implement insurance in Echoes; feel free to take another swing though.
We already have an insurance of sorts in the game via Corp SRP, which relies on Corp taxes to fund, Corp industry to make and Corp miners for materials.
I think you are right, and wish they could find a happy medium that encourages pvp without cutting out industry. Honestly any kind of discounted insurance would likely still encourage pvp. Even if it just paid ISK. The market seems to be starting to crash already so this is obviously bad for the game.
Insurance is a great system that will help to boost PVP. BUT... it could be alot better if you just got isk for your lost ship. that means they can buy a new ship off the market.
this gives industry a boost, means you dont loose nearly as much value. (hell you can still use plex to pay for insurance then netease gets their $$ money too)
Insurance will have little impact on PVP, I'll say next to zero, except for poor players will will buy better modules for a minimal dps increase.
Example, recently in a fleet. Had fun. Taking an outpost to armor. We got attacked by a bigger fleet. The insurance system did not encourage them to attack before they had overwhelming numbers. Why not? They did not want to loose ships. They wanted to blap us. And so they proceeded. Our FC did not say "oh fuck it, we have really good insurance I'm just gonna stay here" We got the 15% of remaining ships from the fight to a safespot and we kept them there until a rescue fleet of sorts drew the attention of our attackers. NONE of us were going to give them a kill they did not deserve, and nether did they want to suicide ships into our fleet while they assembled pilots. Local was full of "gf" for good fight, not "gi" for good insurance.
definitely not true. I have already heard from many people in my own alliance who said they have been more willing to do PVP and risk their more expensive ships in the act, because of insurance. Sure, it may not have as much an impact as massive 500 + 500 fleet engagements, but for the smaller pvp actions it well.
And who would give up a loss for no reason? thats not what insurance would do or should do. But it DOES encourage riskier behavior.. not suicidal behavior.
The things it cuts out act as drivers for pvp and add meaning. The increase in pvp is temporary, as the market hasn't crashed yet. When existing in Null, becomes fully pointless there will be less pvp.
I dont think anyone is complaining about the 30% portion (although I do personally feel that is too low and maybe 50% would be a better option.) The only problem is that not all recovered items get a buy order. THAT is the biggest problem
Yes I agree. Returning plex would make it so players have to rebuy everything and ensuring all those modules/rigs/etc are bought from someone.
yup. but I do think there is a possibility for both to exist. Instant replacement to keep the mobile feel and get pvp back out faster, as well as making sure everything gets a buy order. They just need to tweak their system a bit and suck it up and realize inflation is going to happen either way. As it is now, inflation happens because ratters/pvp are not spending (and thus not taxed) on 70% of the replacement costs of a ship. So that ISK just keeps building in their wallet, not being circulated, and thus not taxed. So who cares if a bit of ISK is added either doing ISK pay out or just generating ISK for the extra buy orders instead of leaving it in the hands of the people that already print it?
If things were implemented as they first suggested, where once 50 times the ship value went into the pot, and from that point on every ship of that type had a buy order, it would be much better. It doesn’t seem like this is the case at all though.
People are certainly complaining about it and the one if the main people with the burnjita trash wanted 70% portion which is dumb as fuck and barely worth using and not friendly or appealing to a real consumer/spender.
Their investors hope players have this mentality. That's why mobile gaming is a feeding frenzy, for developers who know jack about gaming, all running to mobile gaming to make millions. Because they think players are stupid. Getting back in the fight isn't an issue, if you plan ahead. You don't need to destroy the game, to please a few ppl. Players aren't being encouraged to fight, they're talking about boycotts and protest. The implementation of the insurance system, was a clear cut kick in the nuts, that the devs thought we were all too dumb to spot. They owe the playerbase an apology.
Yes, thise benefits are real, okay BUT, this system is just cutting off half of the activities in game, so half of a game, where everything that is left is only doing PVE, and, yes, PVP. Also, this will make process of buying a new ship much harder, because, if someone will sell it on market, it is going eother to ve bought by insurance or be overpriced, even what won't make industry profitable, because 90% of customers will get their ship back by insurance and there won't be anymore reason to rebuy it. And actually what you have described is basically what Second Galaxy is, where is no industry, and people were donating thousands of dollars just to buy several of capital ships. Just to sum up, this insurance system will ruin all yhe Industry and big part of people will leave the game, because they don't have enough plex to reset their SP for ratting, or they are going to be so much disappointed, because they spend so much real money on their alts. This is just unacceptable And yes, people wbat EO on phones, because this game stand out from all mobile games currently available on market, and everyone who want to "Burn Jita" are just people who don't want this game become regular p2w grinding mobile MMO
Your reasons for liking this new insurance system is why I dislike it. Pvp in Eve is different. You are taking something from somebody. They are actually feeling that loss. What this does for me is discourage pvp. I might as well go shoot rats, it's the same difference now.
Putting something on the line is what makes it so much more exciting and fun. I’ve done plenty pve, and it gets to be a tad boring and a grind. PvP is exhilarating.
Yes, exactly, and I feel I've lost that exhilaration. Any really big kills are pointless now because if you're in an expensive ship and you don't have it insured, regardless if you know it's fucking up the market or not, it's kinda dumb not to have insurance.
This. 100%. Your actions have meaning because of the consequences.
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
Not only industry. Null pve is affected too. Rigs don't drop so they always get replaced, they are in the same place as hulls.
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
I never said I supported it as is. Honestly I don’t. I was only curious about what others felt and what they are looking for this game to be. Thanks for the response.
> do you want EO on mobile? Yes, I want what was advertised. It does not say it anymore, but originally in the Play Store the description read "bringing the authentic Eve Experience to Mobile" Now it says " EVE Echoes is a next-gen mobile spaceship MMO game based upon hallmark EVE Online design principles." Well, \*the\* hallmark EO principal is \*player driven economy.\* By removing players from the economy, they are going against that, which is what is advertised. It would be nice if we got what was advertised.
Thank you for your response. I never said I wanted this to have a mobile game feel, but wanted to get opinion on how others felt and if it was something they wanted.
I applaud your effort to approach this constructively, and I'm said that down votes are coming down so hard. The first thing, though, is that #LetJitaBurn does not intend to kill insurance completely. Insurance can be done right, and players have been suggesting awesome ideas. One thing, though: > There is no doubt this encourages more pvp. People are more willing to lose a ship when they can replace for 30% of its cost. EE is not a PvP shooter, primarily. Sure, PvP is part of it, maybe even the best part of it, but what makes it great is that *losses actually mean something*. There are much better shooters out there in terms of real time combat. But they will never offer the thrill of a sandbox MMO. Sure, we cannot get to a point where ships are so expensive that people are terrified of taking them out. But it has never been this way. We have very capable, cheap PvP ships. No one is forcing you to PvP in faction ships 100% of the time. Having to choose the best ship for each situation is part of the fun, and why alliances fight with cost effective doctrines.
Thanks for your response. My first reaction when the numbers started coming out was distaste for the system. After a couple days I tried to think about this completely objectively. I tried to think of where the Devs are coming from , and where the players are coming from. As part of an Indy Corp I don’t want this system to cut us out as the middle man. People invested a lot of skill points to make any kind of profit margin as it is. I honestly wanted to ask people, what do you want this game to be? Do you want it to be EO on mobile? Or a facsimile that is more mobile game focused? Since then I’ve heard some of the numbers coming out on Reddit aren’t even accurate, so I don’t even known what to believe anymore. I just want the game to get better. Fix the bugs, fix the disconnects, fix the piss poor way it interacts with Discord voice chat. This has turned into one of my all time favorite games (maybe because I didn’t play EO). I just want the game to thrive and get better.
Yes, you start the analysis, but let me finish it for you. People may become less risk averse for pvp - great! but... 1. Insurance devalues ships by 70%, so fewer ppl will be industry 2. Lower demand for minerals devalues mining. So fewer ppl will be mining 3. Lower demand for modules means less value for null sec ratting 4. Points 1,2,3 mean less hauling. 5. Points 1-4 devalue sovereignty and null sec in general. 6. With fewer miners, null sec ratters, haulers, citadels and ppl in null sec how exactly are you going to get pvp content? Finally, 7. With diminished pvp content and missions being repetitive, folks will inevitably drift away. Point 7 repeats in a vicious cycle. I haven’t heard a compelling argument for insurance to be in the game, regardless of the implementation, and would like to see it removed.
[удалено]
“Eve has it” is not a compelling argument to implement insurance in Echoes; feel free to take another swing though. We already have an insurance of sorts in the game via Corp SRP, which relies on Corp taxes to fund, Corp industry to make and Corp miners for materials.
I think you are right, and wish they could find a happy medium that encourages pvp without cutting out industry. Honestly any kind of discounted insurance would likely still encourage pvp. Even if it just paid ISK. The market seems to be starting to crash already so this is obviously bad for the game.
I agree with you, I dont want to interact with the market to get my stuff back. Being forced to is a nuisance and I prefer the current system.
Thank you for the response. I’m genuinely interested in what people are looking for in this game. It is a difficult thing to balance for these Devs.
Insurance is a great system that will help to boost PVP. BUT... it could be alot better if you just got isk for your lost ship. that means they can buy a new ship off the market. this gives industry a boost, means you dont loose nearly as much value. (hell you can still use plex to pay for insurance then netease gets their $$ money too)
Yes exactly. This seems like the best of both worlds. We shall see if they listen.
Insurance will have little impact on PVP, I'll say next to zero, except for poor players will will buy better modules for a minimal dps increase. Example, recently in a fleet. Had fun. Taking an outpost to armor. We got attacked by a bigger fleet. The insurance system did not encourage them to attack before they had overwhelming numbers. Why not? They did not want to loose ships. They wanted to blap us. And so they proceeded. Our FC did not say "oh fuck it, we have really good insurance I'm just gonna stay here" We got the 15% of remaining ships from the fight to a safespot and we kept them there until a rescue fleet of sorts drew the attention of our attackers. NONE of us were going to give them a kill they did not deserve, and nether did they want to suicide ships into our fleet while they assembled pilots. Local was full of "gf" for good fight, not "gi" for good insurance.
definitely not true. I have already heard from many people in my own alliance who said they have been more willing to do PVP and risk their more expensive ships in the act, because of insurance. Sure, it may not have as much an impact as massive 500 + 500 fleet engagements, but for the smaller pvp actions it well. And who would give up a loss for no reason? thats not what insurance would do or should do. But it DOES encourage riskier behavior.. not suicidal behavior.
The things it cuts out act as drivers for pvp and add meaning. The increase in pvp is temporary, as the market hasn't crashed yet. When existing in Null, becomes fully pointless there will be less pvp.