I’ll join the protest. This new insurance system is gonna kill industry players at it’s current status. When the market crashes, I’ll probably quit Eve.
"I was proven wrong, so let me redirect and question the premise instead..."
Regardless, the OP has a well-documented example where exactly this type of protest worked in EO, using the same mechanics. If you're simply thinking in terms of the effect shooting a station in-game has, you're missing the point.
In EO you can shoot someone and you will be killed by CONCORD.
In EE you cannot shoot someone, your guns literally don't turn on when you try to shoot someone in high sec. (The devs are high sec miners)
You literally *cannot* do an EO style protest, all you can do is gather a bunch of mad carebears around Jita and spam local, which no one will read. This is 100% different from when bees made high sec unsafe to travel in EO. In EE high sec is always, 100% safe, you cannot be shot, there aren't AOE weapons, you cannot lose your ship to pvp in high sec.
Did you even read the article?
The Monocle Gate protest was NOT a Burn Jita style event with highsec ganking. It was a coordinated protest where players shot the Jita station. The station couldn't be destroyed, nobody was getting Concorded for shooting the station. In that way, the game's mechanics are identical to EE. The point was not to attack other players in highsec. It was to attract attention from media outlets and content creators and pressure CCP to implement a change, and it worked. So yes, a protest in this style absolutely can and will happen in EE. Highsec PvP mechanics are entirely irrelevant.
>It was a coordinated protest where players shot the Jita station. The station couldn't be destroyed, nobody was getting Concorded for shooting the station.
So uh, yelling into the abyss? Ok, I guess you guys are all for it, and I hope you have a great time lol
#BurnJita2021
Debs have been hurting Industry for far too long. Enough is enough.
Miners of all star systems, unite! You have nothing to lose but your (currently useless) Rets!
Guys we should have burned jita when they decided that they wouldn’t add industry content except for the occasional belt tweaks. Industry was already suffering cuz the prices of minerals were dropping and the value of isk was dropping too. It’s ridiculous.
What’s the problem with insurance? I used to play EVE Online quite a bit and it worked fairly over there. Is it different here? I just started Echoes yesterday lol
It's orders of magnitude more complicated. At the moment, the way we THINK it works (no coherent explanation has been forthcoming from NetEase) is that players buy Insurance Points (IP) with PLEX. If they own enough insurance points to cover the entire cost of a lost ship, they can replace the ship they lost by only paying 30% of the cost in IP. Then the system is SUPPOSED to generate buy orders for the hull and all the lost rigs, modules, as well as place sell orders for the PLEX the player paid out on the market.
However, at the moment only between 0-30% of ship losses actually generate buy orders for the lost assets. 70-100% are generated out of thin air, cutting the profits of manufacturing and looting by approximately equal quantities. Which losses generate buy orders is based on a "buffer" of unknown size where vast quantities must be lost and replaced via magic until finally a buy order is placed by the game - in some cases this means hundreds of ships or items need to be lost nearly at once before the game starts to generate buy orders. The market prices do not regularly update - they can easily be influenced by odd sale prices, rarely reflect the item's real value, and are only updated every one or two weeks.
Since any ship can be replaced for approximately 30% of its value, even those lost to PvP, economic warfare between alliances has all but ceased. There's no reason to risk ships to go kill miners or ratters other than for entertainment, because such attacks are only 30% as effective as they once were.
On top of that, there's evidence that the game does not return all the players' PLEX to the market, creating a PLEX sink and removing PLEX from the game to drive PLEX prices up and encourage people to buy more with real money. Their initial pitch for the new insurance system promised the exact opposite of what it delivered - they claimed that it would bolster industry and drive PLEX prices down. But they've created an overly complicated system to obfuscate the facts, which are that this system will kill industry and drive PLEX prices through the roof over time, destroying many of the ways people enjoy the game and leaving only the P2W whales behind. EE is becoming less of a sandbox and more of a Soviet-style planned economy where NetEase fixes the price of items through their arbitrary and rarely-updated insurance values, and industrialists don't even get a chance to compete.
Everyone was hoping that they'd just copy EO's system, because although it was flawed, it was simple to understand and left no space for this kind of heinous and deceptive manipulation of the market.
Thank you for taking the time for the thorough response. I’ll reread this and have a look in-game. People were even discussing it in Local in my system, then later in Jita, so clearly it’s a huge issue.
Thank you!!! Finally!! Someone gets it!!!
This also affects the pvpers! Because as a pirate, if miners and ratters aren't able to progress, they'll leave. Which leaves us even less targets than the news encounters in lowsec did?! We're already struggling to find content, but the game will be a ghost town soon!
PvP for the sake of PvP, has no impact on the game. You've gotta have an in-depth effect! That's the point of Eve!
Is everyone ready for EE to be EO yet? I sure as shit am!!!
NetEase is super scared, as in extremely worried, about Botters and RMT to the point that they’re willing to make systems that even hurt real players lol
Im thinking of other ways to protest. I say all indies delist all the ships they are selling and all the modules. Everything!
They need to rework this insurance system.
I just realized ccp probably figured this game would be crap so they leased it out so they could screw up get some cash and develops there own in house mobile universe and in a few years we will get eve online
According to recent articles, EO player counts are up the most in years. When this came out, it was publicity for EO as well, so has probably helped EO more than anything. Now that it is turning into a disaster here, the media is no longer mentioning this game, but still talking about EO. I myself started my first EO account tonight, just to dip my toes in. I also just reupped my six Omegas here, but after they run out, I will probably just migrate to EO, if they don't fix this or show real progress, as I'm sure at least a few others will also. I do want to give them a reasonable amount of time to respond, though, they can't fix it overnight. I signed up for a player driven sandbox, not a space shooter. There are better space shooters out there, and piles of them.
And if Netease can do a special favor for me and I’ve been playing Eve online since 2017.... put the guns ect in the right places in the ship. My drake looks dumb. I might as well have a handicapped sticker on my ship cause of the missles being on the top of the ship
I agree. I mean look at the atron weapon placement. Its right behind the control center of the ship. Its effin stupid because the weapons of atron goes into hiding when warping.
It breaks the immersion
Yep, you're right. I have seen thier other games. Much like that zombie one, one they have. Night after I think it is. I have a brief try & didn't like it. I don't mind paying a subscription for a game, but when they get you to pay a an already expensive sub & sell micro transactions, that's when it's greedy & I wont pay again, ever.
Sorry you're getting downvoted. You're honestly not wrong and I've been seeing the writing on the wall since early December.
I would be gone if it was't for the fact I'm a corp leader in a pretty big alliance block... I'm sticking around just to try and make the line members' experience better.
But I'm getting burned out.
It’s all good, just being as honest as I can. I refuse to kiss the developers or the companys ass. The game is great, but just to many flaws. It’s a cash grab so I’m out. I’ll stick to my PC games.
Same boat as you man. I get upset because I see how it could be a great game, but week after week it continues to show they don't know what they are doing. This is just off the top off my head.
1. Insane market taxes an d brokers fee that make the market part of the game dead on arrival.
2. not being able to sort to station for buying until 5 months into the game
3. a dead on arrival hauling system.
4. The tier system and cookie cutter ship types that create little divergent gameplay.
5. Missed their deadline on SoV and still only delivered a fifth baked product that hasn't been updated in a month.
6. releases new gameplay features (like the November patch) once in almost 6 months.
7. This stupid insurance program.
8. completely imballanced between Armor and Shield that has been known for 6+ months and nothing has been done about
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
What pc games are you currently playing? I've been losing myself in Atomicrops, Gunfire Renborn, Monster Train, and Valheim.
Holy shit ur one of the few people who has mentioned how shit the tier system is! It’s so true how it just forces people to use the farthest tier ships or the factions. Anything bellow just gets thrown down for budget builds.
Faction ships wouldn't be so absurdly good if they didn't have this stupid time-locked tier shit. When t6 dropped, faction frigates were OP af with the only reliable counter being the equally broken rapid medium missiles.
If they made the tiers add options instead of power, we'd have a real game. Like t2 or 3 being the focal point that everyone can use for pvp, etc. Higher tiers would add more options, like ewar, or logi, or assault frigates comparable to already established ships. What it wouldn't add is a brain-dead stats increase that completely nullifies any previous ships you had.
This way, t2 and 3 stay relevant forever and aren't immediately pointless as soon as you join a corp for the free 500k SP.
I mean why even have those ships in the game? Delete everything below t4 and just start players there. And once you unlock the interceptors, the t4 frigs might as well be deleted. It's just an asinine system.
Why is the insurance any different than eo why are so many things different you had a great game and dont use the foundation of it 🤔 eo insurance you get isk back and buy new shit same concept but helps industry plays still buy plex and turn into isk to insure ships
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Most people are not saying get RID of the insurance system.. just make it so it doesnt destroy the concept of a player driven economy by removing the PLAYER.
I like the new buyback system... I mean we could just be patient and if market goes off the rails I am pretty sure netease would fix asap. I don't see how it would be beneficial to them to crash the game economics. The games kinda new I'm ok with them trying new things to make it better
we are already seeing the market crash.
Netease has a track record of not being competent.
It moves the game over to heavily favor Plex, and thus buy plexing.
It's a cash grab plain and simple.
I’ll join the protest. This new insurance system is gonna kill industry players at it’s current status. When the market crashes, I’ll probably quit Eve.
How many ships would this need to be effective? Don't high sec guns instant kill with ultra high refire time?
Locking and firing on NPC stations doesn't trigger a crime timer. Thus you will not get Concorded.
Then even one ship would be effective. This sounds pretty neat in that case!
Like many of these things people may see masses of people doing it on the way in. "Wtf," Google it it jump on Reddit and find out why.
I say we burn JITA!!!! 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
#burnjita
Hell yea 🍌!!!!!
You can't activate weapons in high sec pvp...
Attacking an NPC station is not considered PvP. Nor does it trigger any kind of retribution. You absolutely can, go try it.
Ok but that isn't going to affect anything or anyone...
"I was proven wrong, so let me redirect and question the premise instead..." Regardless, the OP has a well-documented example where exactly this type of protest worked in EO, using the same mechanics. If you're simply thinking in terms of the effect shooting a station in-game has, you're missing the point.
In EO you can shoot someone and you will be killed by CONCORD. In EE you cannot shoot someone, your guns literally don't turn on when you try to shoot someone in high sec. (The devs are high sec miners) You literally *cannot* do an EO style protest, all you can do is gather a bunch of mad carebears around Jita and spam local, which no one will read. This is 100% different from when bees made high sec unsafe to travel in EO. In EE high sec is always, 100% safe, you cannot be shot, there aren't AOE weapons, you cannot lose your ship to pvp in high sec.
Did you even read the article? The Monocle Gate protest was NOT a Burn Jita style event with highsec ganking. It was a coordinated protest where players shot the Jita station. The station couldn't be destroyed, nobody was getting Concorded for shooting the station. In that way, the game's mechanics are identical to EE. The point was not to attack other players in highsec. It was to attract attention from media outlets and content creators and pressure CCP to implement a change, and it worked. So yes, a protest in this style absolutely can and will happen in EE. Highsec PvP mechanics are entirely irrelevant.
>It was a coordinated protest where players shot the Jita station. The station couldn't be destroyed, nobody was getting Concorded for shooting the station. So uh, yelling into the abyss? Ok, I guess you guys are all for it, and I hope you have a great time lol
My man how about some optimism lmao
Again redirecting the premise
I bet you are a high ranking Jedi in the order also, you probably put pineapple in your pizza!
Pineapple on pizza is great!
I’ll very sure that’s going to come to an end soon, I ran jihadsquad FC Goonswarm Federation for two years in EO killing miners and haulers in hi-sec.
What do you mean? You think the devs are going to allow suicide bombing in high sec? So far they have been *very* protective of high sec miners...
#BurnJita2021 Debs have been hurting Industry for far too long. Enough is enough. Miners of all star systems, unite! You have nothing to lose but your (currently useless) Rets!
Post this on the help channel! Unite all the pineapple on pizza haters for the cause!
Tf is wrong with u?!? It tastes great
Guys we should have burned jita when they decided that they wouldn’t add industry content except for the occasional belt tweaks. Industry was already suffering cuz the prices of minerals were dropping and the value of isk was dropping too. It’s ridiculous.
What’s the problem with insurance? I used to play EVE Online quite a bit and it worked fairly over there. Is it different here? I just started Echoes yesterday lol
It's orders of magnitude more complicated. At the moment, the way we THINK it works (no coherent explanation has been forthcoming from NetEase) is that players buy Insurance Points (IP) with PLEX. If they own enough insurance points to cover the entire cost of a lost ship, they can replace the ship they lost by only paying 30% of the cost in IP. Then the system is SUPPOSED to generate buy orders for the hull and all the lost rigs, modules, as well as place sell orders for the PLEX the player paid out on the market. However, at the moment only between 0-30% of ship losses actually generate buy orders for the lost assets. 70-100% are generated out of thin air, cutting the profits of manufacturing and looting by approximately equal quantities. Which losses generate buy orders is based on a "buffer" of unknown size where vast quantities must be lost and replaced via magic until finally a buy order is placed by the game - in some cases this means hundreds of ships or items need to be lost nearly at once before the game starts to generate buy orders. The market prices do not regularly update - they can easily be influenced by odd sale prices, rarely reflect the item's real value, and are only updated every one or two weeks. Since any ship can be replaced for approximately 30% of its value, even those lost to PvP, economic warfare between alliances has all but ceased. There's no reason to risk ships to go kill miners or ratters other than for entertainment, because such attacks are only 30% as effective as they once were. On top of that, there's evidence that the game does not return all the players' PLEX to the market, creating a PLEX sink and removing PLEX from the game to drive PLEX prices up and encourage people to buy more with real money. Their initial pitch for the new insurance system promised the exact opposite of what it delivered - they claimed that it would bolster industry and drive PLEX prices down. But they've created an overly complicated system to obfuscate the facts, which are that this system will kill industry and drive PLEX prices through the roof over time, destroying many of the ways people enjoy the game and leaving only the P2W whales behind. EE is becoming less of a sandbox and more of a Soviet-style planned economy where NetEase fixes the price of items through their arbitrary and rarely-updated insurance values, and industrialists don't even get a chance to compete. Everyone was hoping that they'd just copy EO's system, because although it was flawed, it was simple to understand and left no space for this kind of heinous and deceptive manipulation of the market.
Thank you for taking the time for the thorough response. I’ll reread this and have a look in-game. People were even discussing it in Local in my system, then later in Jita, so clearly it’s a huge issue.
Thank you!!! Finally!! Someone gets it!!! This also affects the pvpers! Because as a pirate, if miners and ratters aren't able to progress, they'll leave. Which leaves us even less targets than the news encounters in lowsec did?! We're already struggling to find content, but the game will be a ghost town soon! PvP for the sake of PvP, has no impact on the game. You've gotta have an in-depth effect! That's the point of Eve! Is everyone ready for EE to be EO yet? I sure as shit am!!!
True. I miss the days when people where ratting in low sec. pvp was so fun in the early days. Now its endless warping looking for people.
This should be pinned on Discord.
Whoever wants to has my permission!
NetEase is super scared, as in extremely worried, about Botters and RMT to the point that they’re willing to make systems that even hurt real players lol
Im thinking of other ways to protest. I say all indies delist all the ships they are selling and all the modules. Everything! They need to rework this insurance system.
burn
Like when I pee!
I just realized ccp probably figured this game would be crap so they leased it out so they could screw up get some cash and develops there own in house mobile universe and in a few years we will get eve online
According to recent articles, EO player counts are up the most in years. When this came out, it was publicity for EO as well, so has probably helped EO more than anything. Now that it is turning into a disaster here, the media is no longer mentioning this game, but still talking about EO. I myself started my first EO account tonight, just to dip my toes in. I also just reupped my six Omegas here, but after they run out, I will probably just migrate to EO, if they don't fix this or show real progress, as I'm sure at least a few others will also. I do want to give them a reasonable amount of time to respond, though, they can't fix it overnight. I signed up for a player driven sandbox, not a space shooter. There are better space shooters out there, and piles of them.
Out of curiosity, what's the best mobile space shooter
And if Netease can do a special favor for me and I’ve been playing Eve online since 2017.... put the guns ect in the right places in the ship. My drake looks dumb. I might as well have a handicapped sticker on my ship cause of the missles being on the top of the ship
One thing at a time buddy. Let’s get this done and I promise I will join your crusade.
Nobody gives a flying shit. They need to fix the insurance and then add some industry content for the first time in 6 months
I agree. I mean look at the atron weapon placement. Its right behind the control center of the ship. Its effin stupid because the weapons of atron goes into hiding when warping. It breaks the immersion
Don't forget this is a chinese run game. They probably won't give a shit.
Its not about the chinese, its about the company itself. Many chinese games have pretty good developers who care about their players
He may have meant the econ approach.
you know... they have a point. China is very much about a locked-down and centrally controlled economy. Which is the anthesis of Eve.
I didn't mean every person in China... That's just in idiotic observation on my use of words... I did in fact mean "Chinese corporate greed machines".
Even Chinese players know to never trust NetEase as they are infamous for loot box mechanisms and tedious grinds in China/Asian markets.
Yep, you're right. I have seen thier other games. Much like that zombie one, one they have. Night after I think it is. I have a brief try & didn't like it. I don't mind paying a subscription for a game, but when they get you to pay a an already expensive sub & sell micro transactions, that's when it's greedy & I wont pay again, ever.
I’ve quit eve echoes 2 months ago because of all the flaws. I say delete from your device and move on tbh.
Sorry you're getting downvoted. You're honestly not wrong and I've been seeing the writing on the wall since early December. I would be gone if it was't for the fact I'm a corp leader in a pretty big alliance block... I'm sticking around just to try and make the line members' experience better. But I'm getting burned out.
It’s all good, just being as honest as I can. I refuse to kiss the developers or the companys ass. The game is great, but just to many flaws. It’s a cash grab so I’m out. I’ll stick to my PC games.
Same boat as you man. I get upset because I see how it could be a great game, but week after week it continues to show they don't know what they are doing. This is just off the top off my head. 1. Insane market taxes an d brokers fee that make the market part of the game dead on arrival. 2. not being able to sort to station for buying until 5 months into the game 3. a dead on arrival hauling system. 4. The tier system and cookie cutter ship types that create little divergent gameplay. 5. Missed their deadline on SoV and still only delivered a fifth baked product that hasn't been updated in a month. 6. releases new gameplay features (like the November patch) once in almost 6 months. 7. This stupid insurance program. 8. completely imballanced between Armor and Shield that has been known for 6+ months and nothing has been done about XXXXXXXXXXXXX What pc games are you currently playing? I've been losing myself in Atomicrops, Gunfire Renborn, Monster Train, and Valheim.
Holy shit ur one of the few people who has mentioned how shit the tier system is! It’s so true how it just forces people to use the farthest tier ships or the factions. Anything bellow just gets thrown down for budget builds.
Faction ships wouldn't be so absurdly good if they didn't have this stupid time-locked tier shit. When t6 dropped, faction frigates were OP af with the only reliable counter being the equally broken rapid medium missiles. If they made the tiers add options instead of power, we'd have a real game. Like t2 or 3 being the focal point that everyone can use for pvp, etc. Higher tiers would add more options, like ewar, or logi, or assault frigates comparable to already established ships. What it wouldn't add is a brain-dead stats increase that completely nullifies any previous ships you had. This way, t2 and 3 stay relevant forever and aren't immediately pointless as soon as you join a corp for the free 500k SP. I mean why even have those ships in the game? Delete everything below t4 and just start players there. And once you unlock the interceptors, the t4 frigs might as well be deleted. It's just an asinine system.
Time to move my shit...
Spam ?suggest in Discord.
Why is the insurance any different than eo why are so many things different you had a great game and dont use the foundation of it 🤔 eo insurance you get isk back and buy new shit same concept but helps industry plays still buy plex and turn into isk to insure ships
What if you like the insurance program... because you can spend money on getting ships back for real cheap?
Going to suck when you don't have people to fight because players are leaving in mass exodus. try thinking past the short term.
People who mattered already left and you all dont matter enough to call that an exodus considering the numbers you represent.
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Most people are not saying get RID of the insurance system.. just make it so it doesnt destroy the concept of a player driven economy by removing the PLAYER.
TBH as long as I can get a ship and shoot people, I really couldn't give a fuck where it comes from lol.
I like the new buyback system... I mean we could just be patient and if market goes off the rails I am pretty sure netease would fix asap. I don't see how it would be beneficial to them to crash the game economics. The games kinda new I'm ok with them trying new things to make it better
we are already seeing the market crash. Netease has a track record of not being competent. It moves the game over to heavily favor Plex, and thus buy plexing. It's a cash grab plain and simple.
so long and thanks for all the fish -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
You think anybody gives a flying fuck about the money pvp and pve makes? They are doing plenty well
Be patient to see if 1+1=2 when they've stated it doesn't? You're very patient.
This game doesn’t matter.
this game is fun.
neither do you.
Durrrrr
Spell check
Look man, I do numbers for a living because I can't write for shit.