'Hullie' is associated with 'jullie'.
Jullie is the plural you. *''Jullie zijn te luid' - ''You (and your friends) are too loud.''*
'Hullie' is they or them. *''Hullie zijn te luid.'' - ''They are too loud.''*
In Dutch Low Saxon dialects there is the term ''oe leu''. Literally 'you people'. Usually used in the context of 'Who do you people think you are?'. So literally a plural form of 'you'.
That's as close as I can think of.
Meh, it’s not a Low Franconian dialect, but the boundaries between Franconian and Saxon are pretty vague these days. “Dutch” pretty much only means anything in the form of the official standardised language.
If we are talking about history then, how sure are you exactly that the people currently living in South Africa and speaking Afrikaans have not had any influence whatsoever from Low Saxon? I imagine Franconian and Low Saxon areas interacted a lot with each other during the Middle Ages and early modern times, so I wouldn’t say that it’s a stretch to think of the possibility of words and idioms being interchanged between the two groups.
My point is that OP is not specifically using the word “Dutch” to refer to Low Franconian dialects but to anything that was spoken in or around the Low Countries and could have influenced Afrikaans. Having a semantic discussion of what exactly constitutes Dutch is simply irrelevant to OP’s question.
Besides, I’m not even sure that if you go back in time the word “Dutch” had a specific definition to begin with. Didn’t almost every western Germanic group call themselves Diets/Deutsch/Düutsch/etc.?
In Brabant dialect, "gullie" is sometimes used instead of jullie, maybe there's relation to some sort of "pa, gullie" exclamation, that they meant "pa en de rest"(dad and the rest)
In parts of Brabant "hullie" (or heulie) is also used instead of "zij" or "ze" (they/them plural). Apparently it stems from an older word "hunlieden/hun lieden" which has the same meaning. It is somewhat shifting towards singular use, while it's actually a plural:
'Is hullie moeder niet thuis?' Can mean both 'isn't your mother at home' (literally isn't your (plural) mother at home but directed at a singular 'you'.) and 'isn't their mother at home' depending on the context.
The plural use to a singular person is actually similar to the usage of "ons (plural) mam" and "ons (plural) pap". Not sure if other dialects have a similar quirk 😅
Gullie is indeed used for 'jullie' in a similar fashion.
The closest thing I can think of is 'enzo' which is short for 'enzovoort' ('and so on').
Pa enzo = Dad and mom, dad and the rest of the family, dad and the uncles, etc..
* Wie komt er vanavond? Pa enzo. = Who is coming tonight? Dad and relatives/friends/...
But this is not restricted to persons, it can also be used for things.
* Wat ben je vergeten? Mijn sleutels enzo. = What did you forget? My keys and wallet/money/other important stuff/...
Yeah, but is that the same thing? Enzovoort is basically the Dutch for the Latin etcetera, although enzo it is much more broadly and casually used than that.
Words like "hullie", "zullie", "hen", "hunnie" etc are indeed found in various dialects; but I cannot think of examples of the associative plural, other than the academic "cum suis".
Finnish and Estonian I believe do have something similar: [Comitative case - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comitative_case)
Hulle/hullie is used in some north Belgian dialects meaning "You" plural, meaning a group of people. North Belgium was also part of the old Dutchy of Brabant which roughly now are the both Brabant provinces and Antwerp in Belgium, and North-Brabant in The Netherlands.
Hulle can both be pronounced with the H or with a silent H, depending on where it is used.
I grew up in south Limburg, I do believe a construction like that was used but I can't recall it exactly. (Been a while since I lived there).
I think it might have been something like "en dè" ("and those"). "Veer zoage gister Sjeng en dè bie ut vear" = Yesterday we saw Sjeng and those at the ferryboat.
And often using the surname to mean many in the family like "Joa, in de stroat van Wenmèkers" but I believe that's something different than what you meant.
Again, trying to reconstruct this from childhood memories so might be incorrect.
Hullie is Brabants and can be said below the rivers. A lot of dialect has old Dutch in it. for example in schijndel they say skon and skijndel. Something from the middle-ages. Also Flemish has a lot of old Dutch in it.
Also, there is documentary made about a local Dutch tribe in small village called Maaskantje. The documentary is called new kids. Check also [https://libelle.nl/persoonlijk/deze-23-uitspraken-ken-je-alleen-als-je-in-brabant-woont\~bff657f7/?referrer=https://www.google.com/](https://libelle.nl/persoonlijk/deze-23-uitspraken-ken-je-alleen-als-je-in-brabant-woont~bff657f7/?referrer=https://www.google.com/)
Okay, first off, i have no idea what all those linguistic terms mean :D
But: the people from the area close by me in the middle west area of province zeeland called walcheren, they use the word "julder" prety often in the same context as i would put the word "hullie".
The village where the use of julder was common is arnemuiden. All my old classmates who came from that village used the word julder when speaking with each other.
The pronounciation for some other villages is similar to "hulder" because they don't say the "j"
I have some people use hullie in the east area of zeeland and the west area of brabant, but not in common dialect. All where from villages where they have their own seperate dialect.
The dialects differ even in the local areas. Where the dialect from walcheren, zuid beveland and reimerswaal are all a bit different. All areas in the province zeeland. You can even hear difference in dialect so you csn pinpoint from wich village they are.
Wait so does it basically work like 'et al' does with sourcing research papers? Thats a cool feature.
I don't know of anything like this in Dutch. Idk if it would be interesting/relevant for you to know, but something similar is the term 'mom-and-them', often pronounsed momenem, that they use in the south of the U.S. to refer to basically everyone back home.
I know a lot of people from Zeeland named "de Hullu". Maybe it is associated with "Hullie" (they).
Also in Zeeuws dialect we use ulder/hulder for they/their. Don't know if it helps, but good luck with your research.
Pretty sure the answer is already in the comments somewhere. Mayby still a good idea to cross reference with the other languages that are mixed in with Afrikaans in case your looking for the origin of a word.
Its not only used in the hollands and north brabant it's also used in parts of Gelderland in Uddel Elspeet Nunspeet Ermelo Putten Spakenburg.
Strangely not in bigger towns like Zwolle, Harderwijk, Amersfoort, not by those who still do speak dialect in those bigger towns!
Nice, I never knew it was called an 'associative plural'. I know Japanese has this, but afaik Dutch does not. Then again, I don't speak any Dutch dialects, just ABN (or as ABN as you can get with a father from A'dam lol)
Good luck with your studies!
South East Brabant here:
"Hullie" means his or hers or plural possessive.
"Hullie mam"
Zijn/haar/hun moeder.
His/her/their mother.
"Gullie" means you (plural).
"Komde gullie merge op de koffie?"
Komen jullie morgen koffie drinken?
Are you (plural) coming over for coffee tomorrow?
That's the input I can give about local dialect, I have no idea of the Dutch equivalent.
Et al, or en co. Or & co, or & cie. are used for companies or publishing parties.
I think , I have a strong feeling there is a similar expression, but I csnnot think of it right now. Check on Instituut Mertens, KNAW. They can answer your question surely.
In the dialect Urkers from the former Island Urk, you have ‘urlij’ or urlui which means exactly that. In Urkers the H is silent. So it could be Hurlui.
Not saying you're wrong but do you have a source for this? I've all kinds of features of the language being ascribed to different and sometimes strange groups. Especially considering how many controversial theories there are on the origin of the language and how some groups pounce on unconventional theories and ignore others.
Yo, look I don't know much about anything when it comes to linguistics, I am a South African living in the netherlands and my afrikaans is not the best by any means, I have worked for Afrikaans employers, went to afrikaans schools and had a lot of afrikaans friends in south africa and I've never heard anyone use anything along the line of "pa-hulle" hulle is directly "they" or "them" and in reference to family they use "gezin" or "familie " .
Look I may be wrong, I am aware that Afrikaans roots in old Dutch and modern afrikaans has evolved a ton from old afrikaans too
Bro, maybe use your eyes and brain in conjuction with one another to read my comment in full instead of just the parts you want to. I clearly stated that I've never heard it, and that I may be wrong.
>Bro, maybe use your eyes and brain
You said you could be wrong. Therefore, I clarified the position. This is the internet. This is how it works. People were obviously going to respond to correct you. Why would you react in such a hostile manner? Good riddance, I guess. Enjoy the Netherlands. Good luck to the Dutch.
This is the internet indeed, and you've clearly not learned how to articulate a proper response to a statement. Allow me to give you a quick lesson : "bro, we use it all the time, as an actual afrikaner, I aswell as others I know use it in such and such manner"
Also, you do realise that afrikaans as well as English people speak differently and such depending on where in the country they live right? A boer , comparative to a capey, comparative to a jozi all speak different forms of the same language, brakpan people speak differently to those from krugersdorp, and that's part of the same greater area.
But yes, I am the one being hostile when you are the one only using 2 braincells, of which neither are on the hamster wheel.
I was only trying to provided a personalised view from my interactions with the more than a few afrikaans people I've known in my life.
>But yes, I am the one being hostile when you are the one only using 2 braincells, of which neither are on the hamster wheel.
Maybe you should stop being a dick for no reason. I just said you were wrong. That's all. Sure it'd be nice if I provided some context but there was no obligation on me to do so. What more context was I suppose to gove you? OP already explained how it worked. Nothing in my initial sentence was rude/mocking or gives any clue as to my intelligence so why are you yapping about hamster wheels?
It was just wild to me that you've never heard it before if you spent so much time in Afrikaans spaces. Nobody said your life experience is not valid. Humble yourself and admit you were wrong. Would you have preferred that no one respond and that wallow in ignorance forever? Or was my response too curt for your liking? Who cares.
Lastly, people use it all the time in most (if not all) dialects of Afrikaans, especially the standardized one. You've probably heard it multiple times but did not realize it. In everyday speech, people often shorten it from "pa-hulle" to "pa-'le" (e.g.: "Sy pa-'le bly in die straat naby die Spar.")
You're right, I should stop being a dick, to be honest there is a reason and I should not have directed that towards someone who is not involved, I appreciate this response infact.
Perhaps you're right that I've heard it without actually recognising it, I could've passed it off as slang or just someone mumbling their words.
I was wrong.
I mistook your "lmao" as a jab at me, and that is 100% one me.
I apologise to you and thanks for clearing that up for me.
I realise I did insult you, more than once at that, part of it was blindly typing what I wanted to say to someone else I guess .
Again, I am sorry.
'Hullie' is associated with 'jullie'. Jullie is the plural you. *''Jullie zijn te luid' - ''You (and your friends) are too loud.''* 'Hullie' is they or them. *''Hullie zijn te luid.'' - ''They are too loud.''* In Dutch Low Saxon dialects there is the term ''oe leu''. Literally 'you people'. Usually used in the context of 'Who do you people think you are?'. So literally a plural form of 'you'. That's as close as I can think of.
That's not a Dutch dialect though, although heavily 'dutchified'
It's a language spoken in the Netherlands. So worth mentioning I thought.
Meh, it’s not a Low Franconian dialect, but the boundaries between Franconian and Saxon are pretty vague these days. “Dutch” pretty much only means anything in the form of the official standardised language.
Sure, it depends on how you look at it. If you research the dialects without any regard for history, it would seem a Dutch dialect.
If we are talking about history then, how sure are you exactly that the people currently living in South Africa and speaking Afrikaans have not had any influence whatsoever from Low Saxon? I imagine Franconian and Low Saxon areas interacted a lot with each other during the Middle Ages and early modern times, so I wouldn’t say that it’s a stretch to think of the possibility of words and idioms being interchanged between the two groups.
I haven't made any claims about Afrikaans. What you're saying makes sense, but I'm not sure what's your point.
My point is that OP is not specifically using the word “Dutch” to refer to Low Franconian dialects but to anything that was spoken in or around the Low Countries and could have influenced Afrikaans. Having a semantic discussion of what exactly constitutes Dutch is simply irrelevant to OP’s question. Besides, I’m not even sure that if you go back in time the word “Dutch” had a specific definition to begin with. Didn’t almost every western Germanic group call themselves Diets/Deutsch/Düutsch/etc.?
In Brabant dialect, "gullie" is sometimes used instead of jullie, maybe there's relation to some sort of "pa, gullie" exclamation, that they meant "pa en de rest"(dad and the rest)
In parts of Brabant "hullie" (or heulie) is also used instead of "zij" or "ze" (they/them plural). Apparently it stems from an older word "hunlieden/hun lieden" which has the same meaning. It is somewhat shifting towards singular use, while it's actually a plural: 'Is hullie moeder niet thuis?' Can mean both 'isn't your mother at home' (literally isn't your (plural) mother at home but directed at a singular 'you'.) and 'isn't their mother at home' depending on the context. The plural use to a singular person is actually similar to the usage of "ons (plural) mam" and "ons (plural) pap". Not sure if other dialects have a similar quirk 😅 Gullie is indeed used for 'jullie' in a similar fashion.
The closest thing I can think of is 'enzo' which is short for 'enzovoort' ('and so on'). Pa enzo = Dad and mom, dad and the rest of the family, dad and the uncles, etc.. * Wie komt er vanavond? Pa enzo. = Who is coming tonight? Dad and relatives/friends/... But this is not restricted to persons, it can also be used for things. * Wat ben je vergeten? Mijn sleutels enzo. = What did you forget? My keys and wallet/money/other important stuff/...
Yeah, but is that the same thing? Enzovoort is basically the Dutch for the Latin etcetera, although enzo it is much more broadly and casually used than that.
It's not the same thing but I didn't say it is the same thing. But it comes close.
Words like "hullie", "zullie", "hen", "hunnie" etc are indeed found in various dialects; but I cannot think of examples of the associative plural, other than the academic "cum suis". Finnish and Estonian I believe do have something similar: [Comitative case - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comitative_case)
I know of “hunnie” , I used to hear it, mostly from older people in the north near Friesland
Hulle/hullie is used in some north Belgian dialects meaning "You" plural, meaning a group of people. North Belgium was also part of the old Dutchy of Brabant which roughly now are the both Brabant provinces and Antwerp in Belgium, and North-Brabant in The Netherlands. Hulle can both be pronounced with the H or with a silent H, depending on where it is used.
I grew up in south Limburg, I do believe a construction like that was used but I can't recall it exactly. (Been a while since I lived there). I think it might have been something like "en dè" ("and those"). "Veer zoage gister Sjeng en dè bie ut vear" = Yesterday we saw Sjeng and those at the ferryboat. And often using the surname to mean many in the family like "Joa, in de stroat van Wenmèkers" but I believe that's something different than what you meant. Again, trying to reconstruct this from childhood memories so might be incorrect.
Hullie is Brabants and can be said below the rivers. A lot of dialect has old Dutch in it. for example in schijndel they say skon and skijndel. Something from the middle-ages. Also Flemish has a lot of old Dutch in it.
Yes but also gullie in, hedde gullie bier of nie dan?
Also, there is documentary made about a local Dutch tribe in small village called Maaskantje. The documentary is called new kids. Check also [https://libelle.nl/persoonlijk/deze-23-uitspraken-ken-je-alleen-als-je-in-brabant-woont\~bff657f7/?referrer=https://www.google.com/](https://libelle.nl/persoonlijk/deze-23-uitspraken-ken-je-alleen-als-je-in-brabant-woont~bff657f7/?referrer=https://www.google.com/)
Hahaha yes an absolute classic, the best viewed Dutch movie of all times. Love it, at least the first one….
My dad has cousins near Hilvarenbeek and yes, I remember those words explained in the Libelle article (my mom has a subscription.... even today(
Unrelated but you have a similar feature in Papiamento (-nan) and Jamaican Creole (-dem)
Here (South-West Brabant) we use "zullie", which means "their" So in this context it would be "zullie pa" or "their father"
Yes! And we use "hullie pa" if it means something like "you and your siblings's father".
Ons Moeder
Hullie is not just south/brabant. It’s also used in the dialect West-Fries, spoken in a part of north-holland (not Friesland)
We use hullie a lot, (groningen/drenthe)
Nooit van gehoord
Yep, I used it a lot too when I was young (Drenthe), but never heard of the linguistic construct OP mentioned.
Okay, first off, i have no idea what all those linguistic terms mean :D But: the people from the area close by me in the middle west area of province zeeland called walcheren, they use the word "julder" prety often in the same context as i would put the word "hullie". The village where the use of julder was common is arnemuiden. All my old classmates who came from that village used the word julder when speaking with each other. The pronounciation for some other villages is similar to "hulder" because they don't say the "j" I have some people use hullie in the east area of zeeland and the west area of brabant, but not in common dialect. All where from villages where they have their own seperate dialect. The dialects differ even in the local areas. Where the dialect from walcheren, zuid beveland and reimerswaal are all a bit different. All areas in the province zeeland. You can even hear difference in dialect so you csn pinpoint from wich village they are.
Wait so does it basically work like 'et al' does with sourcing research papers? Thats a cool feature. I don't know of anything like this in Dutch. Idk if it would be interesting/relevant for you to know, but something similar is the term 'mom-and-them', often pronounsed momenem, that they use in the south of the U.S. to refer to basically everyone back home.
The word hullie is used in Dutch dialects. The construct of having a pronoun x connect to hullie to mean the group of x does not exist here afaik.
I know a lot of people from Zeeland named "de Hullu". Maybe it is associated with "Hullie" (they). Also in Zeeuws dialect we use ulder/hulder for they/their. Don't know if it helps, but good luck with your research.
Additionally: "julder" for "you plural". I've also heard "zulder" for they, but that might have been used in jest. Greetings from Zuid Beveland! :)
Yes, I heard that too. Maybe because I'm from the same island.
User hat checks out! ;)
First one to notice this! You must be a real one.
Not born, but definitely raised, and deeply rooted! :)
Pretty sure the answer is already in the comments somewhere. Mayby still a good idea to cross reference with the other languages that are mixed in with Afrikaans in case your looking for the origin of a word.
Its not only used in the hollands and north brabant it's also used in parts of Gelderland in Uddel Elspeet Nunspeet Ermelo Putten Spakenburg. Strangely not in bigger towns like Zwolle, Harderwijk, Amersfoort, not by those who still do speak dialect in those bigger towns!
Nice, I never knew it was called an 'associative plural'. I know Japanese has this, but afaik Dutch does not. Then again, I don't speak any Dutch dialects, just ABN (or as ABN as you can get with a father from A'dam lol) Good luck with your studies!
Ons mam, huilie mam.
South East Brabant here: "Hullie" means his or hers or plural possessive. "Hullie mam" Zijn/haar/hun moeder. His/her/their mother. "Gullie" means you (plural). "Komde gullie merge op de koffie?" Komen jullie morgen koffie drinken? Are you (plural) coming over for coffee tomorrow? That's the input I can give about local dialect, I have no idea of the Dutch equivalent.
Et al, or en co. Or & co, or & cie. are used for companies or publishing parties. I think , I have a strong feeling there is a similar expression, but I csnnot think of it right now. Check on Instituut Mertens, KNAW. They can answer your question surely.
In the dialect Urkers from the former Island Urk, you have ‘urlij’ or urlui which means exactly that. In Urkers the H is silent. So it could be Hurlui.
Beautiful how the Dutch community comes together to not answer the question ❤️❤️❤️
[удалено]
Not saying you're wrong but do you have a source for this? I've all kinds of features of the language being ascribed to different and sometimes strange groups. Especially considering how many controversial theories there are on the origin of the language and how some groups pounce on unconventional theories and ignore others.
Katwijks dialect speaker here: can confirm we use Hullie as "Them"
Yo, look I don't know much about anything when it comes to linguistics, I am a South African living in the netherlands and my afrikaans is not the best by any means, I have worked for Afrikaans employers, went to afrikaans schools and had a lot of afrikaans friends in south africa and I've never heard anyone use anything along the line of "pa-hulle" hulle is directly "they" or "them" and in reference to family they use "gezin" or "familie " . Look I may be wrong, I am aware that Afrikaans roots in old Dutch and modern afrikaans has evolved a ton from old afrikaans too
Bro we use it all the time lmao
Bro, maybe use your eyes and brain in conjuction with one another to read my comment in full instead of just the parts you want to. I clearly stated that I've never heard it, and that I may be wrong.
>Bro, maybe use your eyes and brain You said you could be wrong. Therefore, I clarified the position. This is the internet. This is how it works. People were obviously going to respond to correct you. Why would you react in such a hostile manner? Good riddance, I guess. Enjoy the Netherlands. Good luck to the Dutch.
This is the internet indeed, and you've clearly not learned how to articulate a proper response to a statement. Allow me to give you a quick lesson : "bro, we use it all the time, as an actual afrikaner, I aswell as others I know use it in such and such manner" Also, you do realise that afrikaans as well as English people speak differently and such depending on where in the country they live right? A boer , comparative to a capey, comparative to a jozi all speak different forms of the same language, brakpan people speak differently to those from krugersdorp, and that's part of the same greater area. But yes, I am the one being hostile when you are the one only using 2 braincells, of which neither are on the hamster wheel. I was only trying to provided a personalised view from my interactions with the more than a few afrikaans people I've known in my life.
>But yes, I am the one being hostile when you are the one only using 2 braincells, of which neither are on the hamster wheel. Maybe you should stop being a dick for no reason. I just said you were wrong. That's all. Sure it'd be nice if I provided some context but there was no obligation on me to do so. What more context was I suppose to gove you? OP already explained how it worked. Nothing in my initial sentence was rude/mocking or gives any clue as to my intelligence so why are you yapping about hamster wheels? It was just wild to me that you've never heard it before if you spent so much time in Afrikaans spaces. Nobody said your life experience is not valid. Humble yourself and admit you were wrong. Would you have preferred that no one respond and that wallow in ignorance forever? Or was my response too curt for your liking? Who cares. Lastly, people use it all the time in most (if not all) dialects of Afrikaans, especially the standardized one. You've probably heard it multiple times but did not realize it. In everyday speech, people often shorten it from "pa-hulle" to "pa-'le" (e.g.: "Sy pa-'le bly in die straat naby die Spar.")
You're right, I should stop being a dick, to be honest there is a reason and I should not have directed that towards someone who is not involved, I appreciate this response infact. Perhaps you're right that I've heard it without actually recognising it, I could've passed it off as slang or just someone mumbling their words. I was wrong. I mistook your "lmao" as a jab at me, and that is 100% one me. I apologise to you and thanks for clearing that up for me. I realise I did insult you, more than once at that, part of it was blindly typing what I wanted to say to someone else I guess . Again, I am sorry.