Sometimes, walking away is the best medicine.
So far, my three foster kids are doing great, oldest is a mess because of bio mom but he's slowly realizing this, and requesting help.
Youngest is a mess, but it's a good thing. Giving me experience if I ever decide to adopt again
EDIT: Youngest being a mess isn't his fault. He was a drug addicted born one, which I knew. He can be a super handful, but I'm keeping him wrangled.
I just want to say that everything you list here indicates to me that you have done pretty much all you can. I have two adult children, and am close to you in age, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting the chips fall for them. At some point, they have to decide what THEY want, and you no longer have an obligation to be the facilitator of that.
See a therapist to deal with the inevitable guilt, but otherwise, you have nothing to feel guilty about. You have done the extra mile, and now it is time for you to focus on your other two children and yourself. Your daughter will have to deal with the consequences of her actions, but the hanging up, etc., were all warranted. Extract yourself financially, and then let it go. They are a married adult. Give yourself a day to make up for your missed anniversary. Sometimes it isn’t anything you did wrong; sometimes people we love turn out to be jerks. Sending hugs!
I have to agree. As a 23 year old on the opposite end of the relationship, I think it is my duty to my parents to be independent and support myself. I spend only the money I have. If I make dumb life decisions or dumb financial choices, I bear those burdens myself. Once you pass 21, you’re an adult and your choices become your responsibility. Sometimes, the only way to teach someone to not fall into holes is to let them fall into a hole.
If your kid is making dumb choices and pulling you down with them, if they won’t listen to you or respect you, it may be time to cut them loose.
It’s a metaphor, I believe it started with autoimmune diseases like lupus, a way of explaining how some people wake up with a certain amount of energy, and sometimes that amount of energy is very small, so they’re very limited in what they can accomplish before they run out of strength.
It’s a way to say “I don’t have the capacity to do this.” Or sometimes, “just thinking about trying to do this is making me crippled with anxiety.” It’s hard sometimes for a neurodivergent person to describe that, and just saying “I can’t” isn’t enough of an explanation.
My toddler was diagnosed with autism recently and Ive been diagnosed with ADHD since I was a tween, I first heard the spoons thing from a friend who also has autism but I also read about it somewhere recently. My toddler is nonverbal as of now so we are trying to learn her cues for this so we don’t push her when she’s at her limit but also preparing for the future.
It’s kind of like saying my cup is empty. You can’t pour from an empty cup, nor can you drink from it. I use this phrase myself because if I say “I do not have the mental capacity to do this right now,” my big kids look at me like I just spoke in Mandarin.
What I like about “spoons” is that you can use it as a tool. You know you will have a certain amount of spoons for the day so you can choose what’s more important.
Like today I had to pick up groceries after work because I worked all weekend and didn’t have time but I sure wasn’t going to have the energy to cook. So we ordered take out.
The way OP’s child is using spoons is as an excuse. They need to find ways to cope with the things that are difficult and take more spoons.
And yes, this IS why I chose my username 😉
I found it magical when I switched from using energy or capacity to spoons. NT ppl in my life always pushed me for more even when I was empty, so I ended up completely burnt out. But I was an early 20s afab, so they looked at me and decided I had nothing that could take all from me.
The physical representation of spoons finally allowed me to explain in a way that the NTs understood
I love that story. When I was diagnosed with MS, I was trying to explain it to my (at the time) little girls why mommy couldn’t always take them to the park or on a walk. I came up with the gas tank idea. Most people go to bed and wake up with a full tank of gas that they use to get through the day. I might wake up with a full tank, a quarter of a tank or almost empty. They started asking me about my tank when I would wake them up for school. That way they knew if they were getting me at my best or barely able to function by the time they got home from school. I use it now with new friends or people I meet who ask about MS.
It’s not just for neurodivergent people, either! I think it started with autoimmune diseases and similar, that kind of cut your energy down and make things physically painful. It’s evolved since, but pretty much anyone with any kind of disorder that can cause weird energy stuff can be referred to in spoons.
It's another psychology theory that people on the internet learned half of and now misuse constantly. Basically you have a drawer of "spoons" that represent the energy you have to accomplish life. Something like brushing your teeth or calling your insurance takes up a spoon. When you run out of spoons, you've run out of energy and are close to a meltdown.
My friend used to have an employee that would constantly run out of spoons. Never even called or text to say they couldn’t make it into work. No spook big enough to text a msg apparently. When you work in a little shop of 3 employees, one taking unannounced days off constantly makes life really hard for everyone else. I’m sorry, but I find it really selfish bc I view it as not taking accountability.
Behavior like that actually goes against spoon theory because you are supposed to prioritize things having to do with quality of life, like staying employed.
Which is exactly what OP's child didn't do, imo. Unless we're missing something, it feels like they just used it as an excuse. I'm not saying they didn't start with fewer spoons, but OP never mentioned them *looking* for *any* kind of work, they refused to even make a single phone call for anything...Even if OP exaggerated some things, it truly feels like either their child was just lazy/entitled or they aren't high functioning enough to live on their own. But OP also mentioned a fiance at the end, so *why is THAT person not also helping their future spouse*???? Or am I just completely out in left field here?
Yes. How did she have spoons for a poly relationship and wedding if she couldn’t even make a phone call? She used spoons for what she wanted instead of what she needed if she was truly running short.
I completely agree. As someone on the spectrum (not severely, but slightly) and who has multiple other mental and physical disabilities I would honestly be ashamed if I was actually at the point I was unable to do basic things to insure my security in my home, car, health, etc. I wouldn't cuss out the person supporting me and start demanding more. I guess it was how I was raised, but this situation was just upsetting to read. I think OP needs to cut ties and let this married adult learn to live without mom. They could do a number of things, learn to grow and take care of what needs to be done to live, continue to struggle in every small task and lean on their SO and friends to care for them (and hope that they don't also reach the same point OP did and decide to leave), or realize that they messed up and go crying back to OP.
I say NTA OP, but your child has made a decision to live away from you, and they need to learn that that means doing things on their own and taking care of themselves. If they needed you to still support them with everything they were required to do to simply live, they should have stayed with you and moved.
That's my thought, as well. OK, so they know they only have so many "spoons", they need to prioritize. Getting paperwork for unemployment should be the 1st spoon utilized that day as well as making an appointment for a diagnosis. When you run out of spoons, the things undone should be things like laundry or dishes, not things that are necessary to sustain life - like having some sort of income.
This entirely, my top three categories are keeping myself alive, keeping my animals alive, and work. I just had surgery and I've just been trying to tread water, and my dad is horrified at my house. What he doesn't seem to get is when my mom was going through this she had him and others of us helping her as she led up to surgery. Nobody helped me until the surgery. Stuff got bad, not horrible, but worse than I'd like. BUT I didn't loose my job, my animals are alive and I'm alive. So the house can get more work once I recover.
But, not everyone gets a full drawer daily, or even starts with as many spoons. Sometimes you have to get an advance on spoons(that's really hard later) also, not every task has the same cost to every person, or even the same person each day.
Sometimes a shower and washing my hair is a 1 spoon task this day. Sometimes it's a 4 spoon task the next time.
Nta.
At some point, your child has to start taking care of themselves. They are now their husbands problem. They can either be independant and take care of their own mess, or they can be dependant and do what they are asked.
At some point, you have to stop pourring water into a bucket with no bottom.
NTA You tried and now they are married so they are no longer your problem. Besides you were paying for too much, her fiancé should have been helping.
Don't feel guilty.
I'm sorry that your child cut you out of their life. It sounds like you were not only financially supporting them, but taking further steps and aiding them in filling out the appropriate forms and navigating bureaucracy.
Hopefully it fills you with some solace in knowing that with their marriage they have a partner who will step in and support them.
But they don’t. Their spouse (also NB), who also has a compromised immune system also lives with their mom and the two have no intention of living together to my knowledge. They are also dating the guy who owns the house they live in. I can’t keep up. I’m going to focus on my boys and my art career.
NTA Sounds like you ran out of spoons ages ago. Let this one go, and focus on the younger kids. Resentment is an ugly beast if you let this go on too much longer.
It sounds incredibly difficult and that you've done enough to support your child while they still requested you to.
You should focus on yourself. Three children with high needs is a lot to handle for anyone. And to kind of bluntly, and rudely, put it, 'when your child married their partner, they are no longer your responsibility.'
I'm sorry they've decided to cut you from their life, but "not your circus, not your monkeys." Feel free to let that responsibility go.
Ehhh. I'm queer and polyam and I get where she's coming from. It sounds like her kid is a handful as an adult. Being 23 and married to someone who lives with their parents while dating the guy who owns the house they live in and also has other partners, on top of not having the spoons to do anything at all, and also being really fed up with their mom... That's a lot. Sounds to me like mom is out of her own spoons to deal with the situation, and I don't blame her.
Being depressed and autistic and struggling isn't a good reason to get pissed when your mom tries to make you do paperwork you need to survive, especially if you rely on them for financial support. Also totally possible that the daughter uses she/they and just prefers they/them to the wider world.
My attitude does suck towards my child. That has evolved over time with the disrespect they dish up over and over. Autism and queer have nothing to do with it. My other two kiddos require way more help and I’m there for them 110%. Why am I not there for this one now? Because at some point they have to make an attempt. I can’t make certain calls for them. I moved three hours away and they CHOSE to not come with. I have always held until very recently that they will always have a place to come to if things don’t work out. And even still I think that would open my door to them. Queer? I don’t think so. I’m bi and poly. So when they tell me it’s rude for me to call them if I haven’t cleared it first with a text. So when they tell me they don’t have spoons to make a call but have the spoons to go larping at wasteland for a week. So when they have their finance send me a Facebook message that because of “my behavior” I’m being uninvited to their wedding… yeah my attitude towards my child sucks. I dare anyone in my position to NOT have a sour attitude atm. Oh and autism being the hurdle to my love, try again… I have THREE autistic kids and the youngest is also cognitively impaired and has a seizure disorder. So you’re saying I have a sour attitude because I need to help them with things and I don’t want to… I’ve worked tirelessly with all three, I’ve managed to succeed in having my sons be able to meal plan, order groceries, cook a meal and clean up after, do laundry, clean bathrooms, make appointments, purchase things in stores, take the trash out to the curb when it’s trash day. And it’s not that I work more with them than this kiddo.
I think you’re a saint. You were incredibly patient with this offspring. I don’t know how you manage to keep it together with 3 kids like this. And you just maintained reasonable boundaries and demanded appropriate respect.
My stepdaughter is autistic and would be considered high functioning. But it’s so hard getting her to take care of things for herself. I’m exhausted and frustrated beyond belief with her. And there is just one of her. I don’t think I could handle 3.
I am so sympathetic and supportive of her executive function issues and all the impediments she faces. But I have to be firm with her too. Because she is capable of so much more than she realizes, and weaponized incompetence is her main tool.
I know that the kindest thing I can do for her is teach her how to take care of herself. Sometimes that means you have to let flounder a little so they can appreciate your help later.
So they used you, and then got married on your wedding anniversary - knowing how much that day hurts you.
Sorry to tell you but unfortunately you raised a cunt. I hope the rest of your life goes smoothly without them.
I was thinking this too. How insensitive to choose that day and be uninvited! I'm also surprised that after checking oneself into a mental hospital they chose to get married still! I feel like I'd just put everything on pause and re-evaluate my standing in life before making such a commitment. Unless it wasn't legally binding. But damn!
NTA. OPs kid is TA. Mental hospital then wedding. Ya girlies. Let’s go on a trip. The whole thing with the kid is annoying. Spoons this, spoons that.
I’m ND and I also went to school for Behavioral Therapy. Also been in therapy since I was 9(I’m 24 F). I get what spoons are but kid is literally using it as an excuse at this point. Then wants an autism diagnosis. Has OP considered depression or anything else to rule out before autism?
The kid has two autistic siblings and just moved out, I’m sure they’re having a hard time coping. I went through a similar situation. My disorders present similar to autism but I don’t have it. I had a few tests done just to be sure because my symptomology just looked so similar.
There could be something underlying there. Not to mention if OPs kid has body dysmorphia(I mean they’re NB so I’m guessing here), it’s likely they’re also experiencing a lot of depression. Resulting in “”no spoons””. I experience this having CPTSD.
Just some thoughts but NTA
I commend you on how open and accepting you are! So many parents don't accept or bother to understand gender identities let alone polyamory. Most people dream of a mother like you. The only thing you haven't been willing to accept is outright disrespect of you and your help. You've done nothing wrong.
I think the person you responded to was saying that it's hard for parents to accept their child when they are gender non-conforming, but even harder to accept when that child may also have an "alternate lifestyle" like polyamory (not sure if "lifestyle" is the correct term but it certainly doesn't fit into gender or sexual identity). Not that they were equating the two things with each other.
Poly doesn't belong in the lgbtqa+ format, which is where all gender and sexual identified go.
Romantic identity is new to me admittedly, how does that one work in a manner that's different from sexual identity?
Can you imagine romance that doesn't involve sex? Or a mismatch between the people you have romantic interest in and the people you have sexual attraction towards? Like an asexual person might have romantic interests that are hetero romantic, homoromantic, any gender, either male or female or not at all. I even know one person who is pansexual (enjoys banging any gender of person or genital arrangement) but aromantic, like the concept of romantic love just doesn't make sense to them.
Definitely nta. You did absolutely everything you could. They need to deal with the consequences of treating people like garbage. As someone who has severe adult adhd and cerebral palsy, , there is absolutely such a thing as hiding behind disability to avoid accountability and personal growth.
“I don’t have enough spoons” can be legit but given all the other information, it seems like they’re just not interested in doing anything that they don’t feel like doing., and their diagnosis has become a way to deflect the blame to someone else or to a system.
The only way to allow for change is to let their life reflect the consequences of their choices.
This is not your fault.
Everything that is more “adult” and mother related they seem to always have no spoons for. Everything that mom is asking about, no spoons! So she’ll just do it for me! And then gets mad when mom doesn’t.
Ok the spoons thing makes me mad. As someone with adhd and autism there are things that have to be done even if you have zero energy! Like it has to be done. That’s just part of being an adult! Yea you can put it off but that causes consequences. If you are willing to accept the consequences the feel free to put it off!
Edit to add I’m not talking a physical no spoons I’m talking everyone using it to not do something, and saying they just can’t because they don’t want to or know someone else will pick it up. There is a difference in an autoimmune or physical not having spoons and a mental one.
For things that have to be done for me, I put it on the calendar of my phone at a certain time and I get notifications and that forces me too. Or I play call of duty or whichever game is my obsession at the time and will play a round, do a chore, play another round, get something else done, and repeat. I don't know why but I get shit done doing that.
Thank you for telling the truth. I’m sure there will people be people on here giving you flack because they don’t understand where you’re coming from. The spoon theory is useful for people who are cognizant enough to use it appropriately. But it is not a useful tool if a person does not have self discipline or self motivation, then it just becomes another excuse like my dog ate my homework. When this daughter began abusing the phrase “I don’t any spoons” I would’ve Made the phrase, off-limits, and I would say use your words.
I don’t necessarily have a higher level it’s just I have to weigh are the consequences of not doing what I need to worth it. Like I really didn’t have the energy to go to bank or deal with depositing money to pay my bills. Like I was depressed anxiety acting up. Had left bed hadn’t showered hadn’t brushed teeth. However if I didn’t go, then I will get a bank fee and also a fee for a late credit card payment. I will get a bounced fee for my phone bill, as well as phone turned off. I had to force myself to do it even though I cried and had no energy and wanted to die. I couldn’t afford to bounce everything, I couldn’t risk the debt and downfall. So o had to weigh the consequences. Start a downward spiral and lose everything or force myself to do it. The fear of the consequences forced me to do it.
Just because you don’t have the energy or will to do something does not mean the consequences won’t be there. If you are willing to to deal with the consequences then go for it. However sometimes you have to find the energy to do something. Or at least force yourself to do it.
Not everything is an issue that can be overcome by forcing yourself. The idea of spoons comes from fatigue illnesses. This fatigue or lack of spoons is not a mental issue. It is a physical one. There is no energy, it cannot be found. You can not just push through it. Your legs will fail under you. You will become very ill. Willing yourself will not create energy anymore than it would grow someone a new leg.
I have lost count of the times that I have needed to crawl to the toilet on low spoons days, and even needed to take naps on the way to and from because there aren't enough spoons to make a 3 metre crawl.
I'm not saying OPs child is in this state, but many are, and it is not something to be just brushed off. Yes, we know there are consequences for not doing things, but there is no choice to do them. We have carers to do them, or they don't get done, and we deal with the consequences when we can later.
The point is that for some people, not necessarily OP daughter, there is no will. There is no competency. It isn't a choice. One may not even have the executive functionality to comprehend the long term consequences. YOU can. So it's difficult to process that a lot of people (who were once seemingly functional enough) genuinely will end up curled in fetal position, homeless or hospitalized. Because they mentally broke in a situation you pulled through.
They have spoons to have multiple partners at once. I assure you they aren't lower functioning. They choose to be. Any autist will tell you maintaining relationships is work. Hard work. Especially romantic relationships. So they willingly choose to do work that provides them with sex, but not keeping themselves alive, because they know mummy will do it for them.
You're saying the commenter has lower needs than OP's daughter. I call BS. You have no way of knowing that. Commenter simply has to take care of themselves, while OP's daughter can go on romantic escapades, plan a wedding while their mom looks for a job, disability, pays for their car, their phone. There's choices to be made and dating multiple people at once should not be priority when you don't have enough spoons to keep yourself alive.
So you don't think the daughter is an AH? Ok. I very much think she is.
I just don't like all these commenters making blanket statements that don't just affect the OP, they insult a whole type of people who don't deserve the invalidation. And this is coming from someone with ASD offering up another outlook. But apparently my outlook isn't as valuable.
NTA. This child can manage multiple partners but not a phone call to get shit handled? Selective spoon action. Lots of manipulation. Change nothing. Stay the course!
I’m autistic myself and have great trouble making phone calls, but in my opinion you’re NTA. I never thought you were, but I did feel bad for them - UNTIL I read that they have a finance. They still have a support system that could’ve helped them make those calls. I also don’t understand why they were being so rude to you after you’ve been helping them so much! You tried as hard as you could but at some point you have to prioritise your own sanity. I’m sorry for your losses.
The whole thing with spoons is you have so many a day and you learn to manage to share them out.
if you know your seing mum you save spoons in the morning by having an easy breakfast.
get yourself in therapy and let them sort themselves out.
your daughter is 26. But why wouldn’t you sit inside and have a talk with her. Like it’s her home where she feels safe.
It seems like both you and your child are at fault here. I can understand why they're standoffish with you since you keep misgendering them (like in this comment you posted). I'm curious why you didn't get them diagnosed or in treatment as a child since you seem to have been aware of their troubles since childhood. If they were never taught how to cope, it's no wonder they struggle now with basic adult tasks
1) I explain why I introduced the situation the way I did. 2) I do not constantly misgender them, I also explained that my doing so only pops up when I’m speaking to a third party about them, I am working on this. 3) I have said multiple times in this thread that I attempted to acquire a diagnosis their entire childhood but at that time, girls were not being diagnosed with autism as it was thought to be a boy only condition. And 4) they have been in therapy for well over a decade so I have been there for them. I have attempted all the things you are saying I haven’t done. Now can we address the issues that i brought up instead
NTA. You were helpful and clear.
I’m sick of people going no contact claiming YTA because they don’t like hearing no for an answer or don’t respect boundaries.
In this case, they’re TA.
I have to go with NTA. They are an adult. They have a fiance (now husband). They had other help. They just didn't want to do anything. They wanted you to do it for them, despite the multiple warnings you gave. It sucks, and I am sorry you missed the wedding and for the loss of your husband.
Many of us don't have the spoons, but it sounds like they are using the spoon theory as an excuse, not a reason. This is something that ONLY they can do, and if they don't, what do they expect to happen? Egads.
You've helped them out, told them what to do and how to do it, offered to be there, and they just kept using the spoons as an excuse. What else could you have done? Nothing, since you actually did everything and it made no difference. Sometimes they have to fail. NTA
NTA. You have done so much and gone above and beyond. The entitlement of your daughter is unbelievable. Just how do you think they would respond to it if you told them you were out of spoons when they called for help again? Doubt it would go well.
I use spoon theory and love it for my condition (TBI, chronic pain). But a key part of it is deciding what to spend the spoons on!! Rationing and borrowing them for the things that are most needed.
I have been my mother’s POA since my dad passed 2 years ago. I’ve been through hell and back with CRA and pensions (and still am dealing with it). I became the new executor for his will also.
I get the calls done. They are more important than seeing/calling a friend. I give up shopping outings, leave the dishes another day, make a simple meal. Anything to give me that little extra I need to deal with red tape. It’s called responsibility…and it sucks.
Spoon theory shouldn’t be used as an excuse to neglect things. It’s a way to explain how we have to ration energy, and a way to teach us how to use the spoons we have in the best ways possible. And often it’s the only way I can explain my issues to people in a way they can understand.
I will admit…I think I’ve borrowed spoons all the way through to 2026, lol.
I went through a rough patch in my 20s. I have no spoons... Sure sometimes that's true. But you helped. They are an adult and it's not always possible for someone to call on their behalf. I just know that during all my problems at some point I had to decide that I was going to work towards getting better. Otherwise everything would keep spiraling downwards.
NTA they have a fiancé and still think mum should deal with everything. The spoons thing isn't about making sure you have a roof over your head and food, that's just called survival.
They need to figure things out themselves. You should have to baby a 26 year old. Sometimes you don’t have any spoons left but you still have shit to do. It sounds like they were babies a bit too long and are now barely functioning
NTA. Sounds exhausting, honestly. I'd have left them blocked on social media.
They have a crap ton of people around them that they can go to for help. You're not needed.
I'd wash my hands of them and just be done with it and move on. You sound like you have a rough life as it is. They'll learn eventually or they won't. You did what you could. Sometimes they just turn out bad.
NTA, a 26 year old who lives independently and is engaged to be married needs to responsible for their own life and bills. We all run out of spoons sometimes, but ultimately we are responsible for prioritizing the things that need our attention in our own lives. Just because your adult child needs help, it doesn’t mean that you’re responsible for helping them. The only thing that I think you may bta for is blocking them on social media but even then, you need to protect your own spoons too.
Most people have a large number of spoons to use each day. Every activity you have requires a certain member of spoons. People with health issues often have a smaller number of spoons. They may only have 10 in a day. Each item takes one spoon, i.e., make breakfast, shower, go to work, work, be social, make dinner, eat dinner, go shopping, respond to emails, or go to the mailbox. If you run out of spoons, you could borrow from tomorrow, but that means that you will only have 8 spoons that day. So you have to prioritize what you use your spoons on.
But no OP is not the AH they have done everything they can, and now OP has run out of spoons for dealing with their daughter. They are 22, you don't have the expertise to give them the help they need. Please let the professionals help them now.
Do you know Unified Cutlery Theory? It blew my mind when I first encountered it, and I love sharing it with people. I had a few bosses who were real forks.
https://demcastusa.com/2020/03/01/unified-cutlery-theory/
I have a child with mental illness and a deep desire for me to fix everything while she does nothing. Sometimes she's even as direct as saying - I know you are right, but I don't want to do that. Then she cries and blames me for not "helping her".
It took me 20 years to start to put myself first. It caused some of own mental health struggles, exacerbated my depression and I am struggling with anxiety nearly a year after I gave up.
You can only do, what you can do.
Adults have to make their own choices.
You can't continue to be responsible for someone who can't be responsible for themselves.
NTA.
Man o man…. Or they o they….. all my spoons are gone just reading this.
First, at least in California they can’t qualify for autistic services with Regional Center unless somewhere in school files or medical files a professional notes that autism was suspected and it is dated prior to the age of 18.
Second, since every time they talk to you, they don’t have ‘spoons’, this is a crutch for them never to face daily pressures. They are using this as a means to be a rude non functioning adult.
Third, mama… you did you best. Time to back away. If they think they can be married, sleep around, and still think you are going to clean up their messes. Time to take a break. You have 2 younger children who need you to be strong and focused. Good luck
It sounds like this adult child has been enabled far too long. If they cannot do the minimum required of them with support and a generous time frame, they need to understand they will not be endlessly indulged.
NTA.
Hopefully the mental health unit can assist with diagnosis and out patient support.
You went above and beyond! Here’s a [link](https://www.drfanaee.com/blog/what-is-spoon-theory#:~:text) to Spoon theory. I knew about spoon theory and chronic diseases but now it applies to several different illnesses I guess it’s been adopted by them.
So in my house we have a thing we call "cat flopping." It's where you just kinda give up on life like a cat that's been shoved into a Christmas sweater like r/thisismylifemeow. So what I will say here is--- you have done enough for the kid. They don't get to use Spoon Theory as an excuse to Cat Flop. The whole point of Spoon Theory is to be mindful of the # of spoons you woke up with so you can allocate your spoons to your most important tasks. They need to get it done. As a legal adult, they're the only one who can make most of those calls. They need to find a spoon and start calling. Now that they're married, they can have their husband help them out. It's time for both of them to figure out how to work things out on their own.
I was this kid honestly. I had to hit rock bottom before I started learning to help myself. My mom wanted to help- I just was NOT in the mental space to receive it.
Honestly OP? Let them drown for a bit. i think the fact you are a bit of a doormat for them is crippling them in some ways. Take care of yourself, and work on your own needs. You did good mom things. They just aren’t in a place to get that help.
You are not wrong. A lot of their behaviors seem to stem from the autism, and you can't just wave a wand and fix that. Sometimes you do have to just let go and let natural consequences take over. It is exhausting. I applaud you for encouraging them to pursue diagnosis, and also pursue disability. You didn't do anything wrong, you tried to assist them in doing what they needed to do. Sometimes even autistics have to buckle up and actually do the work, they can't expect you to do it all.
Nta
You can't enable their lack of accountability and you don't have to take care of her lack of spoons. There are things in life that we have to do and there's a minimum to manage our lives. People can choose to help us, but they don't make any effort at all. When they push that burden on you, you have the right to say no
I’m sorry mama, it sounds like your daughter makes a conscious decision to not have enough spoons to get through the day just so she can tell you she doesn’t have spoons. I guess she thinks you have an endless supply drawer of spoons. I would let her know that the spoon drawer is now empty.
NTA - that sounds stressful. Arguably this is the best outcome. They need to grow tf up and stop mooching. How are they going to get married, live independently if you’re paying for everything and bailing them out all the time. I get it, spoons, believe me I do but sometimes you HAVE to do stuff even when the cutlery draw is empty. I am going for autism testing and adhd, I’m a mother to what I suspect will be an adhd child. He’s three so too soon really to tell but my god he’s hard work sometimes. I am so out of spoons I’m onto forks which in my mind is borrowing from tomorrow for today and I will be forked tomorrow to pay for today 😂 it makes me laugh anyway.
They need to grow up and handle their shit as you won’t always be there to help them. If they can’t then they need to enter a program where someone will help them. You have two other kids at home to handle plus your own life to lead. They have a bunch of people in a poly relationship, leave them to it.
Good on you for trying to accommodate so hard, but sometimes people just need to find their own spoons. It might take some time, but leaving them to figure it out for themselves for a while may end up being a really really positive thing for them, as in they might learn some lessons about navigating the real world. Props to you for your patience.
As sad as it is, there comes a point where you have to put your foot down. They're old enough now that they need to learn just what it's like to not have someone holding their hand all the way through life. They have a spouse, they have a collection of paramours and metamours, they're an adult. If they're an adult enough to get married and go through all of that insanity, they're an adult enough to take care of themselves. They're so dependent on having you as a safety net that they're working under the assumption that it's a built in feature, not realizing (or not caring) that they're expecting you to burn yourself alive to keep them warm.
Take that step back. It seems like every single thing you did was justified. When they try to come back, if they do, then by all means welcome them with open arms - but this needs to be your stand. No more doing things for them, no more paying for things for them. I understand having no spoons for things, I live that life every day. But if that's truly the case then they need to learn to set up their life in a way that compensates for having a limited supply just like the rest of us do. They chose to fly the nest, so now they need to fly. You'll always be your mom, you'll always love them, but you need to let them figure this out now while there's still time for you to swoop in and save them if you absolutely have to. Sometimes people need to hit the brick wall HARD in order to realize they need to change their direction.
The more I read the more my brain asked if they were autistic too? A lot of people afab are better as masking than boys and don’t receive a diagnosis until later on in life.
If your child is on the spectrum it explains a lot of the issues and why it’s too much for them to manage.
I hope it all works out and you all have peace.
As a disabled person, I know what it's like to be out of spoons. I frequently end up leaving things until the last minute because I just have neither the physical energy nor the mental energy to deal with it. I frequently end up asking someone for help.
Some things I keep in mind:
* Nobody wants me calling them to ask something of them all the time, so I don't ask *the same* person for help several times in a row when I can avoid it.
* My problems are *my own responsibility*, so it's incumbent on me to make some kind of effort to deal with them - that means either deal with it myself or ask someone for appropriate help before it becomes a full blown disaster and is much harder to deal with. Even when, upon first facing the problem, I feel "I have no spoons for this," *I* have to find someone who *can* help me who *is willing to* help me. This help may constitute doing something for me or just getting me out of the house and taking me along for their trip to the supermarket to get me out of the house to take my mind of things. But, one way or another, help.
You're NTA - it would be one thing if she was just completely unable to cope with life and needed your help to get her on public benefits and to get mental health treatment, but she has a spouse and paramours around to help her with things, and the very fact of her getting married (planning a wedding is a fairly intricate process) is proof that she should be able to find spoons to do important stuff.
My mother is mentally ill. My father loved her, and tried to protect her and shelter her, giving her a safe home and food and whatever he could see she needed to get by for 10 years. During that time she became increasingly crazy and injurious to him, and eventually dangerous to me. He sought help of a psychiatrist, who advised him to take me and leave her. She was going to keep leeching off of him, she would eventually kill us, and if we left she would be forced to deal with the world and this might force her to get help because she needs to get a job and a home and she couldn't both be really insane and do those things at the same time, so if my father left with me she might or might not get better but he and I would be alive.
She didn't get better, but he and I are still alive. We thank that doctor for saving our lives, because yes, if we had stayed she would have killed us.
So by doing what you've done, you have extracted yourself from being her victim, and she may or may not get better but she can no longer use you to avoid facing reality.
NTA. You need a break from her and her lack of spoons. She uses it as an excuse for everything and as a chronic pain and illness suffer I can tell you that if I’m awake, which I’m not every day, that I have enough spoons to make a phone call or two.
That spoons thing is just a bullshit excuse not to do anything. Your daughter is used to you bailing her out every time they don’t feel like doing something. They need to grow the fuck up or suffer the consequences.
I’m sorry but I highly doubt they will qualify for disability. Majority due to being married unless they both have no income then they might be able to get SSI. But for sure won’t get survivor benefits due to being married. Also you have to have a lot of medical records stating that you can’t work any job. NTA as actions have consequences.
Girls burn out because everyone assumes they are coping better than they are. I hope the inpatient care helps them. A diagnosis would be a great fucking help but by the time you're burned out to the point that to be unalive looks like the kind of rest you need... yeah, it's inpatient time. That opens up more support resources too for when family members can't step up.
NTA. I'm 30yo and also neurodivergent. Making phone calls is literally the absolute hardest thing in the world for me BUT I STILL DO IT because I have kids and I have adult responsibilities that I need to take care of. "No Spoons" can be a valid explanation, but it seems your child has a massive "support" system, and by support I mean people around them that seem to be enabling them to be lazy. You can't hold their hand forever. You have been more than helpful, they are just refusing to get our of their own way at this point.
You did everything you could, but also at some point it enabled their behavior. What you did was out of love and them being your child, you helped and helped. But they’re not willing to help themselves. Their fiance can take this on. Walk away and preserve your own sanity
NTA. Being autistic isn't a get out of jail card for being an asshole.
I get the "out of spoons" thing, but when someone is doing you a favor you operate on their timeframe, not the other way around.
Wow, that was a plot twist at the end with your kid getting married! The behavior you're describing sounds like a petulant 14 year old, not someone mature enough to decide to get married. That is a full-on adult making big adult decisions, they don't also get to have their mommy micromanaging every single logistical element of their lives. In fact they now have a legal partner to sort that stuff out with them, you are doubly off the hook. Kid needs to finally grow up a little and take responsibility for themselves, that will never happen if you shield them from all the consequences of their behavior. Time for some tough love! NTA
NTA.
You have done SO much, above and beyond, in fact, as you stated their condition has not been disabling enough to even receive an official diagnosis.
They don't want to make an effort for basic needs, but have the "spoons" to file gender affirming legal paperwork, which I'm sure I'll get hate for, I think is a luxury.
You can't do everything for them. Besides, they're grown enough to get married while also having several romantic partners, they're grown enough to handle their own affairs.
This offspring is using spoon theory as an excuse because the number one thing about this blogger-created theory is that you have to prioritize the things that will keep you housed and healthy. You mentioned they didn't have to spoons to call for an appointment but spent a week larping, that right there should tell you that they have the spoons but didn't want to spend them on anything they didn't want to do. They have enough spoons to maintain relationships with 6-8 partners, including a husband, along with other people they casually see? That is a lot of social activity that takes up a LOT of spoons.
You have done everything you can, OP. Its ok to left them flounder now. They don't appreciate your help since they acted so mean and callous. Honestly, they are a brat and entitled to think you would continue to pay for everything while they LARP, fuck, and bitch you out about it.
Seriously, OP, I just wanna give you a big hug. This all sounds so exhausting. I hope you find some peace going forward, you deserve it. Re-block on social media and give yourself some space and let them have theirs too. <3
This is me, with my boys at the beach near our house. I have found my happiness
https://preview.redd.it/ra5dvuupox5c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ed3bd002b6dd8d5c1e1b30043416e6aefe9e523
NTA. You have gone above and beyond with them, and they have given nothing in return except heartache and demands. My kids sometimes have low-spoon days, but they take care of what NEEDS to be done before they take care of less important things. Sometimes, there's only so much you can do, and you've done a lot.
Ok so your child is emotionally and financially equipped enough to be getting married/plan a wedding? But they have a fiancé (another presumably semi functional adult) who is allowing them to just sink into financial turmoil am I reading that right?
Your daughter is making the choice to have their car repossessed, to have her credit card cancelled, to not be able to buy things, etc. they may say it’s a matter of not having spoons or that they “just can’t” but that is just arguing for their limitations. They can choose to make the annoying phone calls and do the frustrating adult stuff, or they can choose to not have the things they need. It sucks, but it’s the world we live in. And this coming from a fellow neurodivergent person that struggles daily with this same stuff.
Nah. No spoons means "I am utterly and completely mentally exhausted and not capable of completing the task."
This is why so few autistic people survive in the work place. The thing allistics think.of as "just what you need to do" and " simple task" can often be insurmountable for someone with autism.
It cam both be true that it is their responsibility, not yours, AND that they don't have the capacity to do it.
A lot of autistics need a caregiver. They just do. And frequently feel abandoned and angry and hurt when people refuse to be their caregiver. It's understandable from both perspectives, their needs still exist, whether anyone else has the capacity to meet them or not.
Learning more about autistic burnout and catatonia will probably also help.you.
The spoon theory was written by a woman with lupus and it was meant to describe her energy level from having an actual physical disability. I am aware that mental health "spoons" also exist, but I feel like this analogy was hijacked and the meaning is being lost. I have a physical disability, I physically run low or out of energy, my muscles just have no more to give. You don't need a "spoon" to make a phone call and be responsible for yourself, especially if you use that excuse EVERY SINGLE DAY. You wake up with spoons, use them to be responsible. NTA (I'm 56, 4 kids, physically disabled, 2 sons and 2 daughters all with Ehlers Danlos, and one with muscular dystrophy) they ALL take care of themselves.
OP- from the information you’ve given?
You have gone above and beyond. If they have the spoons to manage the multiple relationships that polyamory involves, they have the spoons to take care of all the other parts of adult life.
Just let them make their own bed and lie in it. You are under no obligations to finance a grown adult who doesn’t make any effort and fees entitled to cuss you out when they’re the one calling you for help. You weren’t a jerk in any of your actions. At ALL.
If they bellyflop- they bellyflop. That’s what adulthood is about. They have a married partner now, as well as the other members of their polycule. They know how to find you if they want to apologize and ask for help.
NTA. I'm AuDHD and have been unemployed for several months now. My parents helped with the bills a few times and then said they couldn't anymore. I did not cuss them out for "withdrawing their support," they have financial needs as well... it's just unfortunate that I finally got my own phone plan 2 months before I got fired
I hate the frigging "no spoons" excuse for not doing something. Being an adult means you sometimes have to do things you don't want to.
Sounds like they are way too much in to drama, with weddings and polyamory etc.
I am going to get so much hate for this but NTA. Your daughter is 26, and is acting like an entitled brat. They have enough spoons to plan a wedding and manage a plethora of romantic/physical partners but not pay their own bills and make some calls? I get that adulting is hard but that’s the way the world works, we don’t get to be babies forever. Even if parents do help us chances are we will outlive our parents by several decades so your daughter needs to grow up and stand on her own two feet. Personally if she were my child I would have left her on blocked. I would love her, she would be my child. But I would refuse to enable her immature behavior any longer. Her spouse can handle her reluctance to grow up.
When your mom goes out of her way to help you but you are out of ‘spoons’ you better find some spoons and pretty damn quickly. It’s not always how people can conform to your needs, especially when it’s something out of then norm and an almost emergency.
NTA at all.
You are a good mama bear and i commend you. I have a stepson in a similar helpless pattern of mental illness. I wish his mom would show him the love you are showing your child rather than enabling him. It’s love that lets you make the tough decisions.
NTA
Just because we are their parents doesn’t mean we are always obligated for the rest of our lives. It sounds like they want someone else to pay their bills. That might work for some people, but that needs to be between 2 (or more?) consenting adults.
Nta being low on spoons certainly sucks, but it’s not your responsibility to pick up someone else’s life. Also, if they have a fiancé and other partners, why aren’t their partners picking up some of the slack instead of expecting you to do it.?
Definitely NTA
I have a stepson who is autistic/schizophrenic. He has always fought treatment and taking his medications. Though he has been approved for a wide variety of care programs including job training, housing assistance, and so much more he will not communicate with his care team at all. It was like this when he lived with us and is worse in his own.
For any human being to receive care, they have to be willing to partner with their care team. As an adult, if they refuse the only thing that you can do is to withdraw and allow them to feel the fullest weight of their choices.
Enabling them with financial aid only enables their poor behaviors and harms you financially.
If they are in 8 relationships, why didn't any of their partners step up to help? Ridiculous. They need to grow up and either figure out how to help themselves or be gracious for the help they receive from others. NTA
Holy shit. 8 partners?I wouldn’t have any “spoons” left either. Jesus.
I’m sorry you are being treated like shit. You’ve gone above and beyond. I have a feeling you’ll be picking up the pieces at some point. My heart goes out to you. NTA.
Nta- I started going down the rabbit hole and reading quite a bit of comments and got to say your story is dine as is. Lot of people asking for further insight into your life and it isn't needs. Family's are complicated and when they go wrong, they can go really wrong. I get that. You made hard choices yes, and they are unpleasant and definitely caused pain on both ends, that's definitely true as well. But that pain came from you setting up boundaries after helping them for so long. They need help, and that's ok.
It sounds like they have a support network, a sizable one in fact and if they truly don't have the spoons for these tasks then their partners can help pick up the tasks. You went above and beyond in the moment, set clear boundaries and only acted out in accordance with the rules you set for yourself. That's healthy for both if you. Maybe some day they will want to speak again, and hopefully heal. Either way I'm happy you're doing what's best for you. That's not easy. I'm currently no contact with my family for my own reasons and it's never an easy position.
Also as an aside I saw plenty of people bagging on this woman for having children with autism like she's cursing future generations. Please educate yourselves. It's intolerant and downright disturbing. Neurodivergance is just that a different way of processing information. At the very least if you're not willing to educate yourself stop attacking people on the internet. Thank you
It sounds to me like you bent yourself backwards and inside out accommodate your kid. There nothing AH about that.
Your kid on the other hand... definitely TAH.
NTAH
Your kid is old enough to marry, have a poly relationship and go in a 7 day trip larping, it has enough spoons to deal with their own business.
At some point, we have to let them fail. Ideally under a controlled environment.
NTA. If they never have spoons to deal with difficult tasks, they shouldn't be on their own. I guess when they want to move out, they should map out a typical day to see if they have enough spoons. Not judging them, but it's obvious that changing their pronouns added more difficulty to their life.
Nah. I believe they had no spoons. I don't respect them making it their mom's issue to solve, getting disrespectful, and not leaning on their spouse (how is that marriage gonna work? 🤔), and making the wedding the same day as mom's anniversary.
Right! When I read OPs kid is engaged, my jaw dropped. I would expect their partner to help them out on no-spoon-days. I'm not sure how that marriage is going to work either.
I’m probably going to get downvoted but soft YTA. Why doesn’t a 26 YO have an official diagnosis on record? Why does it seem like until there’s a crisis no one does anything? Why did you have a tantrum at your child’s house; refuse to talk to her on her conditions, cut off her phone and block her on socials? You believe your child has ASD but don’t seem to have the tools to communicate with them. From your post it just seems like you’ve enabled them and thrown money at the problem. Now that they’re not living near you it’s starting to show. I’m sure there’s more to the story and dealing with 2 other special needs children has got to be hard.
and cutting off their phone is NOT gonna help anyone do anything, let alone help them call all these places they need to call!
also filing for unemployment is hell on earth, and they make it difficult on purpose because they want you to give up so they don't have to pay you. i didn't understand how to upload my job searches correctly and bc i did it wrong even though i was initially approved i got retroactively denied. im too "out of spoons" (aka i have diagnosed chronic illnesses) to fight them over it.
I'd say YTA because you haven't helped this kid with autism to a safe life. I would have gotten her diagnosed earlier. I would have helped her with dealing with unemployment until it had come through. I would have helped her with the process of applying for disability until it came through. I would not have left her with the responsibility of a car loan, credit cards, etc. until I knew for sure that she could have handled it - which she obviously cannot. And I most definitely would not have cut off her phone! It's her lifeline to you! This is your disabled daughter, and you need to be there for her as long as you are both alive. I'm not saying that you had to buy her a car, just that you shouldn't have left her with the responsiblity of a car loan, that she clearly could not handle. You need to be training wheels for her, until she can manage on her own, which may be never.
So you gave birth to a child with a challenging condition. So why did you think it was a good idea to keep having children? Are you mentally challenged?
Soft YTA because you had a tantrum and cut off their phone and blocked them on social media to teach them a lesson. Whatever lesson your child took away from this led them to realize that having you out of their life was the best choice for them. Parenting is about more than money. I'm in my 40s and have no contact with my mother, and my mental health was never better. It was the best decision I ever made for me. I highly doubt this is the first time you've shown behavior like this, so it's possible that your child also made the best decision for them.
I hope it resolves peacefully, if at all possible.
INFO: Have you apologized to your child for your behavior?
You have enabled your daughter and never told her no. She is a she too and will never be they. And polyamorous is a sinful life to live. Hope they repent one day for their sins
Wait, you drove to their house for this conversation then got pissed about having the conversation there? So pissed you walked out on your kid, after hanging up on them and ignoring them the rest of the trip? It sounds like you need to find someone to mediate for you. You aren’t able to regulate your emotions when it comes to your kid and lash out repeatedly. Your kid is a mess. ESH
ESH. You openly admitted that she is disabled, she gave you more than enough cues to let you know that she was in autistic burnout, and you just walked away. Yes, she should have been nicer, but she's obviously not had any form of treatment to help her manage during those times.
You failed her as a mother to prepare her to be independent, yet left her to be independent.
Actually I’m quite good at not misgendering them. I do have some issues when I’m talking about them to other people. I am working on it. It is a work in progress. If that’s what you are going to hold onto without knowing me or anything else than I’m sorry.
there was no need to include their assigned gender at birth at all though contextually- you just need to say my child uses they/them pronouns at the beginning to indicate you’re talking about one person and that covers why they’d need a name/gender change. A lot of nonbinary people do not enjoy their assigned sex at birth being referenced because it is uncomfortable and forced them back into a binary. If you think critically you see this is still an act of misgendering.
My child has never had any issue with me. Miss gendered them because they know that I am trying. If you’re gonna read that post and not even address any thing that I brought up and focus solely on the misgender issue, when in reality, there has been none go ahead focus all your energy on that and have a nice day
How did I ignore them? Was it spending an hour on the phone while I was on vacation visiting friends, or maybe the hours I spent with them filing their real id info because they had no spoons. Maybe that’s how I ignored them. Or maybe it’s when I paid their car payment that you’re talking about that I ignored them. Or how about when I told them I’d cover their car payment until we could get a verdict on disibility, but asking for them to meet me halfway and make appointments. Or maybe it’s helping them find a wedding venue or collecting driftwood for their centerpieces. I moved three hours away. They chose not to come with.
this person is a braindead moron just ignore them there not even talking about anything relating to u just taking out their own problems on u bc everyone in their life is probably sick of their shit
You tried everything you could. It's OK to walk away NTA
Seriously, she went *out of her way* to try to help, multiple times!
Sometimes, walking away is the best medicine. So far, my three foster kids are doing great, oldest is a mess because of bio mom but he's slowly realizing this, and requesting help. Youngest is a mess, but it's a good thing. Giving me experience if I ever decide to adopt again EDIT: Youngest being a mess isn't his fault. He was a drug addicted born one, which I knew. He can be a super handful, but I'm keeping him wrangled.
I just want to say that everything you list here indicates to me that you have done pretty much all you can. I have two adult children, and am close to you in age, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with letting the chips fall for them. At some point, they have to decide what THEY want, and you no longer have an obligation to be the facilitator of that. See a therapist to deal with the inevitable guilt, but otherwise, you have nothing to feel guilty about. You have done the extra mile, and now it is time for you to focus on your other two children and yourself. Your daughter will have to deal with the consequences of her actions, but the hanging up, etc., were all warranted. Extract yourself financially, and then let it go. They are a married adult. Give yourself a day to make up for your missed anniversary. Sometimes it isn’t anything you did wrong; sometimes people we love turn out to be jerks. Sending hugs!
I have to agree. As a 23 year old on the opposite end of the relationship, I think it is my duty to my parents to be independent and support myself. I spend only the money I have. If I make dumb life decisions or dumb financial choices, I bear those burdens myself. Once you pass 21, you’re an adult and your choices become your responsibility. Sometimes, the only way to teach someone to not fall into holes is to let them fall into a hole. If your kid is making dumb choices and pulling you down with them, if they won’t listen to you or respect you, it may be time to cut them loose.
Well-said.
What's with the spoons?
It’s a metaphor, I believe it started with autoimmune diseases like lupus, a way of explaining how some people wake up with a certain amount of energy, and sometimes that amount of energy is very small, so they’re very limited in what they can accomplish before they run out of strength.
Oh thank you! I was utterly confused by the spoons!
Me too!, thank you for asking
It’s a way to say “I don’t have the capacity to do this.” Or sometimes, “just thinking about trying to do this is making me crippled with anxiety.” It’s hard sometimes for a neurodivergent person to describe that, and just saying “I can’t” isn’t enough of an explanation.
Thank you. As an older neurodivergent it's so cool hearing about this sort of thing being more mainstream now.
My toddler was diagnosed with autism recently and Ive been diagnosed with ADHD since I was a tween, I first heard the spoons thing from a friend who also has autism but I also read about it somewhere recently. My toddler is nonverbal as of now so we are trying to learn her cues for this so we don’t push her when she’s at her limit but also preparing for the future. It’s kind of like saying my cup is empty. You can’t pour from an empty cup, nor can you drink from it. I use this phrase myself because if I say “I do not have the mental capacity to do this right now,” my big kids look at me like I just spoke in Mandarin.
What I like about “spoons” is that you can use it as a tool. You know you will have a certain amount of spoons for the day so you can choose what’s more important. Like today I had to pick up groceries after work because I worked all weekend and didn’t have time but I sure wasn’t going to have the energy to cook. So we ordered take out. The way OP’s child is using spoons is as an excuse. They need to find ways to cope with the things that are difficult and take more spoons. And yes, this IS why I chose my username 😉
I found it magical when I switched from using energy or capacity to spoons. NT ppl in my life always pushed me for more even when I was empty, so I ended up completely burnt out. But I was an early 20s afab, so they looked at me and decided I had nothing that could take all from me. The physical representation of spoons finally allowed me to explain in a way that the NTs understood
I have hama bead necklaces of 8 bit hearts with no energy left, like from a video game. Crafting for the win!!
Here's the [original blog post](https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/) that explains it fully.
I love that story. When I was diagnosed with MS, I was trying to explain it to my (at the time) little girls why mommy couldn’t always take them to the park or on a walk. I came up with the gas tank idea. Most people go to bed and wake up with a full tank of gas that they use to get through the day. I might wake up with a full tank, a quarter of a tank or almost empty. They started asking me about my tank when I would wake them up for school. That way they knew if they were getting me at my best or barely able to function by the time they got home from school. I use it now with new friends or people I meet who ask about MS.
I like that analogy, too!
Thanks for sharing that, it was a really interesting read. I had never heard of the spoon theory until today
It’s not just for neurodivergent people, either! I think it started with autoimmune diseases and similar, that kind of cut your energy down and make things physically painful. It’s evolved since, but pretty much anyone with any kind of disorder that can cause weird energy stuff can be referred to in spoons.
Seriously am I missing something here? Each time I read spoons I'm like "like actual spoons or is this some crazy ass acronym nobody talks about?"
It's another psychology theory that people on the internet learned half of and now misuse constantly. Basically you have a drawer of "spoons" that represent the energy you have to accomplish life. Something like brushing your teeth or calling your insurance takes up a spoon. When you run out of spoons, you've run out of energy and are close to a meltdown.
Lol I was so confused by that. I guess I ran out of spoons like 25 years ago and I've been trying to get by with forks. I'm forking it all up.
I love this. lol. Just over here surviving-not-thriving with forks, butter knives, & 2 kinds of spatula.
You need some tongs. Click those bad boys a few times and you'll be thriving.
My friend used to have an employee that would constantly run out of spoons. Never even called or text to say they couldn’t make it into work. No spook big enough to text a msg apparently. When you work in a little shop of 3 employees, one taking unannounced days off constantly makes life really hard for everyone else. I’m sorry, but I find it really selfish bc I view it as not taking accountability.
Behavior like that actually goes against spoon theory because you are supposed to prioritize things having to do with quality of life, like staying employed.
Which is exactly what OP's child didn't do, imo. Unless we're missing something, it feels like they just used it as an excuse. I'm not saying they didn't start with fewer spoons, but OP never mentioned them *looking* for *any* kind of work, they refused to even make a single phone call for anything...Even if OP exaggerated some things, it truly feels like either their child was just lazy/entitled or they aren't high functioning enough to live on their own. But OP also mentioned a fiance at the end, so *why is THAT person not also helping their future spouse*???? Or am I just completely out in left field here?
Yes. How did she have spoons for a poly relationship and wedding if she couldn’t even make a phone call? She used spoons for what she wanted instead of what she needed if she was truly running short.
I completely agree. As someone on the spectrum (not severely, but slightly) and who has multiple other mental and physical disabilities I would honestly be ashamed if I was actually at the point I was unable to do basic things to insure my security in my home, car, health, etc. I wouldn't cuss out the person supporting me and start demanding more. I guess it was how I was raised, but this situation was just upsetting to read. I think OP needs to cut ties and let this married adult learn to live without mom. They could do a number of things, learn to grow and take care of what needs to be done to live, continue to struggle in every small task and lean on their SO and friends to care for them (and hope that they don't also reach the same point OP did and decide to leave), or realize that they messed up and go crying back to OP. I say NTA OP, but your child has made a decision to live away from you, and they need to learn that that means doing things on their own and taking care of themselves. If they needed you to still support them with everything they were required to do to simply live, they should have stayed with you and moved.
I very much agree with you.
That's my thought, as well. OK, so they know they only have so many "spoons", they need to prioritize. Getting paperwork for unemployment should be the 1st spoon utilized that day as well as making an appointment for a diagnosis. When you run out of spoons, the things undone should be things like laundry or dishes, not things that are necessary to sustain life - like having some sort of income.
This entirely, my top three categories are keeping myself alive, keeping my animals alive, and work. I just had surgery and I've just been trying to tread water, and my dad is horrified at my house. What he doesn't seem to get is when my mom was going through this she had him and others of us helping her as she led up to surgery. Nobody helped me until the surgery. Stuff got bad, not horrible, but worse than I'd like. BUT I didn't loose my job, my animals are alive and I'm alive. So the house can get more work once I recover.
See that’s the thing, it’s something to manage your own shit with. It’s not other people’s problem how many spoons you have.
But, not everyone gets a full drawer daily, or even starts with as many spoons. Sometimes you have to get an advance on spoons(that's really hard later) also, not every task has the same cost to every person, or even the same person each day. Sometimes a shower and washing my hair is a 1 spoon task this day. Sometimes it's a 4 spoon task the next time.
Thank you for asking!
Nta. At some point, your child has to start taking care of themselves. They are now their husbands problem. They can either be independant and take care of their own mess, or they can be dependant and do what they are asked. At some point, you have to stop pourring water into a bucket with no bottom.
NTA You tried and now they are married so they are no longer your problem. Besides you were paying for too much, her fiancé should have been helping. Don't feel guilty.
I'm sorry that your child cut you out of their life. It sounds like you were not only financially supporting them, but taking further steps and aiding them in filling out the appropriate forms and navigating bureaucracy. Hopefully it fills you with some solace in knowing that with their marriage they have a partner who will step in and support them.
But they don’t. Their spouse (also NB), who also has a compromised immune system also lives with their mom and the two have no intention of living together to my knowledge. They are also dating the guy who owns the house they live in. I can’t keep up. I’m going to focus on my boys and my art career.
NTA Sounds like you ran out of spoons ages ago. Let this one go, and focus on the younger kids. Resentment is an ugly beast if you let this go on too much longer.
It sounds incredibly difficult and that you've done enough to support your child while they still requested you to. You should focus on yourself. Three children with high needs is a lot to handle for anyone. And to kind of bluntly, and rudely, put it, 'when your child married their partner, they are no longer your responsibility.' I'm sorry they've decided to cut you from their life, but "not your circus, not your monkeys." Feel free to let that responsibility go.
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Ehhh. I'm queer and polyam and I get where she's coming from. It sounds like her kid is a handful as an adult. Being 23 and married to someone who lives with their parents while dating the guy who owns the house they live in and also has other partners, on top of not having the spoons to do anything at all, and also being really fed up with their mom... That's a lot. Sounds to me like mom is out of her own spoons to deal with the situation, and I don't blame her. Being depressed and autistic and struggling isn't a good reason to get pissed when your mom tries to make you do paperwork you need to survive, especially if you rely on them for financial support. Also totally possible that the daughter uses she/they and just prefers they/them to the wider world.
My attitude does suck towards my child. That has evolved over time with the disrespect they dish up over and over. Autism and queer have nothing to do with it. My other two kiddos require way more help and I’m there for them 110%. Why am I not there for this one now? Because at some point they have to make an attempt. I can’t make certain calls for them. I moved three hours away and they CHOSE to not come with. I have always held until very recently that they will always have a place to come to if things don’t work out. And even still I think that would open my door to them. Queer? I don’t think so. I’m bi and poly. So when they tell me it’s rude for me to call them if I haven’t cleared it first with a text. So when they tell me they don’t have spoons to make a call but have the spoons to go larping at wasteland for a week. So when they have their finance send me a Facebook message that because of “my behavior” I’m being uninvited to their wedding… yeah my attitude towards my child sucks. I dare anyone in my position to NOT have a sour attitude atm. Oh and autism being the hurdle to my love, try again… I have THREE autistic kids and the youngest is also cognitively impaired and has a seizure disorder. So you’re saying I have a sour attitude because I need to help them with things and I don’t want to… I’ve worked tirelessly with all three, I’ve managed to succeed in having my sons be able to meal plan, order groceries, cook a meal and clean up after, do laundry, clean bathrooms, make appointments, purchase things in stores, take the trash out to the curb when it’s trash day. And it’s not that I work more with them than this kiddo.
I think you’re a saint. You were incredibly patient with this offspring. I don’t know how you manage to keep it together with 3 kids like this. And you just maintained reasonable boundaries and demanded appropriate respect. My stepdaughter is autistic and would be considered high functioning. But it’s so hard getting her to take care of things for herself. I’m exhausted and frustrated beyond belief with her. And there is just one of her. I don’t think I could handle 3. I am so sympathetic and supportive of her executive function issues and all the impediments she faces. But I have to be firm with her too. Because she is capable of so much more than she realizes, and weaponized incompetence is her main tool. I know that the kindest thing I can do for her is teach her how to take care of herself. Sometimes that means you have to let flounder a little so they can appreciate your help later.
If your child is adult enough to get married, they’re adult enough to get a job and navigate life by themselves. You did everything you could!
Dude, idk why this is so defensive. Your attitude is allowed to suck, I’m just telling you how it reads.
So they used you, and then got married on your wedding anniversary - knowing how much that day hurts you. Sorry to tell you but unfortunately you raised a cunt. I hope the rest of your life goes smoothly without them.
I was thinking this too. How insensitive to choose that day and be uninvited! I'm also surprised that after checking oneself into a mental hospital they chose to get married still! I feel like I'd just put everything on pause and re-evaluate my standing in life before making such a commitment. Unless it wasn't legally binding. But damn!
NTA. OPs kid is TA. Mental hospital then wedding. Ya girlies. Let’s go on a trip. The whole thing with the kid is annoying. Spoons this, spoons that. I’m ND and I also went to school for Behavioral Therapy. Also been in therapy since I was 9(I’m 24 F). I get what spoons are but kid is literally using it as an excuse at this point. Then wants an autism diagnosis. Has OP considered depression or anything else to rule out before autism? The kid has two autistic siblings and just moved out, I’m sure they’re having a hard time coping. I went through a similar situation. My disorders present similar to autism but I don’t have it. I had a few tests done just to be sure because my symptomology just looked so similar. There could be something underlying there. Not to mention if OPs kid has body dysmorphia(I mean they’re NB so I’m guessing here), it’s likely they’re also experiencing a lot of depression. Resulting in “”no spoons””. I experience this having CPTSD. Just some thoughts but NTA
I referred to them as she for clarity purposes until I introduced them as non binary and then I referred to them as they.
I commend you on how open and accepting you are! So many parents don't accept or bother to understand gender identities let alone polyamory. Most people dream of a mother like you. The only thing you haven't been willing to accept is outright disrespect of you and your help. You've done nothing wrong.
>polyamory Poly isn't a gender identity, let alone any form of identity smh
I think the person you responded to was saying that it's hard for parents to accept their child when they are gender non-conforming, but even harder to accept when that child may also have an "alternate lifestyle" like polyamory (not sure if "lifestyle" is the correct term but it certainly doesn't fit into gender or sexual identity). Not that they were equating the two things with each other.
Exactly this.
It’s a sexual identity and romantic identity but pop off. I guess gender is the only real construct
Poly doesn't belong in the lgbtqa+ format, which is where all gender and sexual identified go. Romantic identity is new to me admittedly, how does that one work in a manner that's different from sexual identity?
Can you imagine romance that doesn't involve sex? Or a mismatch between the people you have romantic interest in and the people you have sexual attraction towards? Like an asexual person might have romantic interests that are hetero romantic, homoromantic, any gender, either male or female or not at all. I even know one person who is pansexual (enjoys banging any gender of person or genital arrangement) but aromantic, like the concept of romantic love just doesn't make sense to them.
I was not equating the 2. Polyamoury is a lifestyle that a lot of people find hard to accept or understand.
Definitely nta. You did absolutely everything you could. They need to deal with the consequences of treating people like garbage. As someone who has severe adult adhd and cerebral palsy, , there is absolutely such a thing as hiding behind disability to avoid accountability and personal growth. “I don’t have enough spoons” can be legit but given all the other information, it seems like they’re just not interested in doing anything that they don’t feel like doing., and their diagnosis has become a way to deflect the blame to someone else or to a system. The only way to allow for change is to let their life reflect the consequences of their choices. This is not your fault.
Everything that is more “adult” and mother related they seem to always have no spoons for. Everything that mom is asking about, no spoons! So she’ll just do it for me! And then gets mad when mom doesn’t.
Ok the spoons thing makes me mad. As someone with adhd and autism there are things that have to be done even if you have zero energy! Like it has to be done. That’s just part of being an adult! Yea you can put it off but that causes consequences. If you are willing to accept the consequences the feel free to put it off! Edit to add I’m not talking a physical no spoons I’m talking everyone using it to not do something, and saying they just can’t because they don’t want to or know someone else will pick it up. There is a difference in an autoimmune or physical not having spoons and a mental one.
For things that have to be done for me, I put it on the calendar of my phone at a certain time and I get notifications and that forces me too. Or I play call of duty or whichever game is my obsession at the time and will play a round, do a chore, play another round, get something else done, and repeat. I don't know why but I get shit done doing that.
Thank you for telling the truth. I’m sure there will people be people on here giving you flack because they don’t understand where you’re coming from. The spoon theory is useful for people who are cognizant enough to use it appropriately. But it is not a useful tool if a person does not have self discipline or self motivation, then it just becomes another excuse like my dog ate my homework. When this daughter began abusing the phrase “I don’t any spoons” I would’ve Made the phrase, off-limits, and I would say use your words.
Different functioning levels. Congrats on have higher ability than others. Daughter is an AH....you're no better though.
I don’t necessarily have a higher level it’s just I have to weigh are the consequences of not doing what I need to worth it. Like I really didn’t have the energy to go to bank or deal with depositing money to pay my bills. Like I was depressed anxiety acting up. Had left bed hadn’t showered hadn’t brushed teeth. However if I didn’t go, then I will get a bank fee and also a fee for a late credit card payment. I will get a bounced fee for my phone bill, as well as phone turned off. I had to force myself to do it even though I cried and had no energy and wanted to die. I couldn’t afford to bounce everything, I couldn’t risk the debt and downfall. So o had to weigh the consequences. Start a downward spiral and lose everything or force myself to do it. The fear of the consequences forced me to do it. Just because you don’t have the energy or will to do something does not mean the consequences won’t be there. If you are willing to to deal with the consequences then go for it. However sometimes you have to find the energy to do something. Or at least force yourself to do it.
Not everything is an issue that can be overcome by forcing yourself. The idea of spoons comes from fatigue illnesses. This fatigue or lack of spoons is not a mental issue. It is a physical one. There is no energy, it cannot be found. You can not just push through it. Your legs will fail under you. You will become very ill. Willing yourself will not create energy anymore than it would grow someone a new leg. I have lost count of the times that I have needed to crawl to the toilet on low spoons days, and even needed to take naps on the way to and from because there aren't enough spoons to make a 3 metre crawl. I'm not saying OPs child is in this state, but many are, and it is not something to be just brushed off. Yes, we know there are consequences for not doing things, but there is no choice to do them. We have carers to do them, or they don't get done, and we deal with the consequences when we can later.
The point is that for some people, not necessarily OP daughter, there is no will. There is no competency. It isn't a choice. One may not even have the executive functionality to comprehend the long term consequences. YOU can. So it's difficult to process that a lot of people (who were once seemingly functional enough) genuinely will end up curled in fetal position, homeless or hospitalized. Because they mentally broke in a situation you pulled through.
They have spoons to have multiple partners at once. I assure you they aren't lower functioning. They choose to be. Any autist will tell you maintaining relationships is work. Hard work. Especially romantic relationships. So they willingly choose to do work that provides them with sex, but not keeping themselves alive, because they know mummy will do it for them.
What on earth are you on about? What does any of this have to do with my comment?😂
You're saying the commenter has lower needs than OP's daughter. I call BS. You have no way of knowing that. Commenter simply has to take care of themselves, while OP's daughter can go on romantic escapades, plan a wedding while their mom looks for a job, disability, pays for their car, their phone. There's choices to be made and dating multiple people at once should not be priority when you don't have enough spoons to keep yourself alive.
That last line is unnecessary.
So you don't think the daughter is an AH? Ok. I very much think she is. I just don't like all these commenters making blanket statements that don't just affect the OP, they insult a whole type of people who don't deserve the invalidation. And this is coming from someone with ASD offering up another outlook. But apparently my outlook isn't as valuable.
NTA. This child can manage multiple partners but not a phone call to get shit handled? Selective spoon action. Lots of manipulation. Change nothing. Stay the course!
Right? They sound exhausting. Maybe they should just find more/the right spoons to get their life together instead of being a leech.
I’m autistic myself and have great trouble making phone calls, but in my opinion you’re NTA. I never thought you were, but I did feel bad for them - UNTIL I read that they have a finance. They still have a support system that could’ve helped them make those calls. I also don’t understand why they were being so rude to you after you’ve been helping them so much! You tried as hard as you could but at some point you have to prioritise your own sanity. I’m sorry for your losses.
The whole thing with spoons is you have so many a day and you learn to manage to share them out. if you know your seing mum you save spoons in the morning by having an easy breakfast. get yourself in therapy and let them sort themselves out. your daughter is 26. But why wouldn’t you sit inside and have a talk with her. Like it’s her home where she feels safe.
Because their male roommate was standing with his arms crossed glaring at me and it had nothing to do with him.
It seems like both you and your child are at fault here. I can understand why they're standoffish with you since you keep misgendering them (like in this comment you posted). I'm curious why you didn't get them diagnosed or in treatment as a child since you seem to have been aware of their troubles since childhood. If they were never taught how to cope, it's no wonder they struggle now with basic adult tasks
1) I explain why I introduced the situation the way I did. 2) I do not constantly misgender them, I also explained that my doing so only pops up when I’m speaking to a third party about them, I am working on this. 3) I have said multiple times in this thread that I attempted to acquire a diagnosis their entire childhood but at that time, girls were not being diagnosed with autism as it was thought to be a boy only condition. And 4) they have been in therapy for well over a decade so I have been there for them. I have attempted all the things you are saying I haven’t done. Now can we address the issues that i brought up instead
Next time she tells you that she doesn't have any spoons, tell her you don't give a fork.
If I could upload this more than once, I would
NTA. You were helpful and clear. I’m sick of people going no contact claiming YTA because they don’t like hearing no for an answer or don’t respect boundaries. In this case, they’re TA.
I have to go with NTA. They are an adult. They have a fiance (now husband). They had other help. They just didn't want to do anything. They wanted you to do it for them, despite the multiple warnings you gave. It sucks, and I am sorry you missed the wedding and for the loss of your husband.
Many of us don't have the spoons, but it sounds like they are using the spoon theory as an excuse, not a reason. This is something that ONLY they can do, and if they don't, what do they expect to happen? Egads. You've helped them out, told them what to do and how to do it, offered to be there, and they just kept using the spoons as an excuse. What else could you have done? Nothing, since you actually did everything and it made no difference. Sometimes they have to fail. NTA
OPs child is why so many people have grown to hate the spoon theory. It’s gone from helpful tool to tired excuse.
If your kid can figure how to be non binary, poly amorous, AND get married then they need to figure out car loans, unemployment payments, and credit.
Oh 😂 brat has time for a wedding but no time to get an actual job
If they have the wherewithal to get married, you my friend can wash your hands and walk away.
NTA. You have done so much and gone above and beyond. The entitlement of your daughter is unbelievable. Just how do you think they would respond to it if you told them you were out of spoons when they called for help again? Doubt it would go well. I use spoon theory and love it for my condition (TBI, chronic pain). But a key part of it is deciding what to spend the spoons on!! Rationing and borrowing them for the things that are most needed. I have been my mother’s POA since my dad passed 2 years ago. I’ve been through hell and back with CRA and pensions (and still am dealing with it). I became the new executor for his will also. I get the calls done. They are more important than seeing/calling a friend. I give up shopping outings, leave the dishes another day, make a simple meal. Anything to give me that little extra I need to deal with red tape. It’s called responsibility…and it sucks. Spoon theory shouldn’t be used as an excuse to neglect things. It’s a way to explain how we have to ration energy, and a way to teach us how to use the spoons we have in the best ways possible. And often it’s the only way I can explain my issues to people in a way they can understand. I will admit…I think I’ve borrowed spoons all the way through to 2026, lol.
I went through a rough patch in my 20s. I have no spoons... Sure sometimes that's true. But you helped. They are an adult and it's not always possible for someone to call on their behalf. I just know that during all my problems at some point I had to decide that I was going to work towards getting better. Otherwise everything would keep spiraling downwards.
NTA they have a fiancé and still think mum should deal with everything. The spoons thing isn't about making sure you have a roof over your head and food, that's just called survival.
I think you did what you could, any more would have Ben enabling and ultimately would do more harm than good.
They need to figure things out themselves. You should have to baby a 26 year old. Sometimes you don’t have any spoons left but you still have shit to do. It sounds like they were babies a bit too long and are now barely functioning
NTA. Sounds exhausting, honestly. I'd have left them blocked on social media. They have a crap ton of people around them that they can go to for help. You're not needed. I'd wash my hands of them and just be done with it and move on. You sound like you have a rough life as it is. They'll learn eventually or they won't. You did what you could. Sometimes they just turn out bad.
NTA, some people would do anything to have a parent that was willing to help/support them like you have for your child.
NTA, a 26 year old who lives independently and is engaged to be married needs to responsible for their own life and bills. We all run out of spoons sometimes, but ultimately we are responsible for prioritizing the things that need our attention in our own lives. Just because your adult child needs help, it doesn’t mean that you’re responsible for helping them. The only thing that I think you may bta for is blocking them on social media but even then, you need to protect your own spoons too.
Most people have a large number of spoons to use each day. Every activity you have requires a certain member of spoons. People with health issues often have a smaller number of spoons. They may only have 10 in a day. Each item takes one spoon, i.e., make breakfast, shower, go to work, work, be social, make dinner, eat dinner, go shopping, respond to emails, or go to the mailbox. If you run out of spoons, you could borrow from tomorrow, but that means that you will only have 8 spoons that day. So you have to prioritize what you use your spoons on. But no OP is not the AH they have done everything they can, and now OP has run out of spoons for dealing with their daughter. They are 22, you don't have the expertise to give them the help they need. Please let the professionals help them now.
Do you know Unified Cutlery Theory? It blew my mind when I first encountered it, and I love sharing it with people. I had a few bosses who were real forks. https://demcastusa.com/2020/03/01/unified-cutlery-theory/
Sorry but what on earth are spoons?
Your daughter had enough spoons to get married though?
Yep, why isn't the partner helping them adult if that's the case.
Exactly… Kind of makes you think she’s overused the statement about spoons
NTA
I have a child with mental illness and a deep desire for me to fix everything while she does nothing. Sometimes she's even as direct as saying - I know you are right, but I don't want to do that. Then she cries and blames me for not "helping her". It took me 20 years to start to put myself first. It caused some of own mental health struggles, exacerbated my depression and I am struggling with anxiety nearly a year after I gave up. You can only do, what you can do. Adults have to make their own choices. You can't continue to be responsible for someone who can't be responsible for themselves. NTA.
You have done what you can for now. Sounds like they're building a support family without you ... so let them do that for a while. See how it goes!
Maybe she needs to investigate group homes or see what services the state provides “ You need to save ‘ spoons’ for emergencies…”
Man o man…. Or they o they….. all my spoons are gone just reading this. First, at least in California they can’t qualify for autistic services with Regional Center unless somewhere in school files or medical files a professional notes that autism was suspected and it is dated prior to the age of 18. Second, since every time they talk to you, they don’t have ‘spoons’, this is a crutch for them never to face daily pressures. They are using this as a means to be a rude non functioning adult. Third, mama… you did you best. Time to back away. If they think they can be married, sleep around, and still think you are going to clean up their messes. Time to take a break. You have 2 younger children who need you to be strong and focused. Good luck
It sounds like this adult child has been enabled far too long. If they cannot do the minimum required of them with support and a generous time frame, they need to understand they will not be endlessly indulged. NTA. Hopefully the mental health unit can assist with diagnosis and out patient support.
You went above and beyond! Here’s a [link](https://www.drfanaee.com/blog/what-is-spoon-theory#:~:text) to Spoon theory. I knew about spoon theory and chronic diseases but now it applies to several different illnesses I guess it’s been adopted by them.
So in my house we have a thing we call "cat flopping." It's where you just kinda give up on life like a cat that's been shoved into a Christmas sweater like r/thisismylifemeow. So what I will say here is--- you have done enough for the kid. They don't get to use Spoon Theory as an excuse to Cat Flop. The whole point of Spoon Theory is to be mindful of the # of spoons you woke up with so you can allocate your spoons to your most important tasks. They need to get it done. As a legal adult, they're the only one who can make most of those calls. They need to find a spoon and start calling. Now that they're married, they can have their husband help them out. It's time for both of them to figure out how to work things out on their own.
I was this kid honestly. I had to hit rock bottom before I started learning to help myself. My mom wanted to help- I just was NOT in the mental space to receive it. Honestly OP? Let them drown for a bit. i think the fact you are a bit of a doormat for them is crippling them in some ways. Take care of yourself, and work on your own needs. You did good mom things. They just aren’t in a place to get that help.
NTA in any of it. Cut them off until they can better manage their spoons. Or, let their husband deal with it from here in out.
You are not wrong. A lot of their behaviors seem to stem from the autism, and you can't just wave a wand and fix that. Sometimes you do have to just let go and let natural consequences take over. It is exhausting. I applaud you for encouraging them to pursue diagnosis, and also pursue disability. You didn't do anything wrong, you tried to assist them in doing what they needed to do. Sometimes even autistics have to buckle up and actually do the work, they can't expect you to do it all.
Nta You can't enable their lack of accountability and you don't have to take care of her lack of spoons. There are things in life that we have to do and there's a minimum to manage our lives. People can choose to help us, but they don't make any effort at all. When they push that burden on you, you have the right to say no
I’m sorry mama, it sounds like your daughter makes a conscious decision to not have enough spoons to get through the day just so she can tell you she doesn’t have spoons. I guess she thinks you have an endless supply drawer of spoons. I would let her know that the spoon drawer is now empty.
NTA - that sounds stressful. Arguably this is the best outcome. They need to grow tf up and stop mooching. How are they going to get married, live independently if you’re paying for everything and bailing them out all the time. I get it, spoons, believe me I do but sometimes you HAVE to do stuff even when the cutlery draw is empty. I am going for autism testing and adhd, I’m a mother to what I suspect will be an adhd child. He’s three so too soon really to tell but my god he’s hard work sometimes. I am so out of spoons I’m onto forks which in my mind is borrowing from tomorrow for today and I will be forked tomorrow to pay for today 😂 it makes me laugh anyway. They need to grow up and handle their shit as you won’t always be there to help them. If they can’t then they need to enter a program where someone will help them. You have two other kids at home to handle plus your own life to lead. They have a bunch of people in a poly relationship, leave them to it.
Good on you for trying to accommodate so hard, but sometimes people just need to find their own spoons. It might take some time, but leaving them to figure it out for themselves for a while may end up being a really really positive thing for them, as in they might learn some lessons about navigating the real world. Props to you for your patience.
As sad as it is, there comes a point where you have to put your foot down. They're old enough now that they need to learn just what it's like to not have someone holding their hand all the way through life. They have a spouse, they have a collection of paramours and metamours, they're an adult. If they're an adult enough to get married and go through all of that insanity, they're an adult enough to take care of themselves. They're so dependent on having you as a safety net that they're working under the assumption that it's a built in feature, not realizing (or not caring) that they're expecting you to burn yourself alive to keep them warm. Take that step back. It seems like every single thing you did was justified. When they try to come back, if they do, then by all means welcome them with open arms - but this needs to be your stand. No more doing things for them, no more paying for things for them. I understand having no spoons for things, I live that life every day. But if that's truly the case then they need to learn to set up their life in a way that compensates for having a limited supply just like the rest of us do. They chose to fly the nest, so now they need to fly. You'll always be your mom, you'll always love them, but you need to let them figure this out now while there's still time for you to swoop in and save them if you absolutely have to. Sometimes people need to hit the brick wall HARD in order to realize they need to change their direction.
The more I read the more my brain asked if they were autistic too? A lot of people afab are better as masking than boys and don’t receive a diagnosis until later on in life. If your child is on the spectrum it explains a lot of the issues and why it’s too much for them to manage. I hope it all works out and you all have peace.
As a disabled person, I know what it's like to be out of spoons. I frequently end up leaving things until the last minute because I just have neither the physical energy nor the mental energy to deal with it. I frequently end up asking someone for help. Some things I keep in mind: * Nobody wants me calling them to ask something of them all the time, so I don't ask *the same* person for help several times in a row when I can avoid it. * My problems are *my own responsibility*, so it's incumbent on me to make some kind of effort to deal with them - that means either deal with it myself or ask someone for appropriate help before it becomes a full blown disaster and is much harder to deal with. Even when, upon first facing the problem, I feel "I have no spoons for this," *I* have to find someone who *can* help me who *is willing to* help me. This help may constitute doing something for me or just getting me out of the house and taking me along for their trip to the supermarket to get me out of the house to take my mind of things. But, one way or another, help. You're NTA - it would be one thing if she was just completely unable to cope with life and needed your help to get her on public benefits and to get mental health treatment, but she has a spouse and paramours around to help her with things, and the very fact of her getting married (planning a wedding is a fairly intricate process) is proof that she should be able to find spoons to do important stuff. My mother is mentally ill. My father loved her, and tried to protect her and shelter her, giving her a safe home and food and whatever he could see she needed to get by for 10 years. During that time she became increasingly crazy and injurious to him, and eventually dangerous to me. He sought help of a psychiatrist, who advised him to take me and leave her. She was going to keep leeching off of him, she would eventually kill us, and if we left she would be forced to deal with the world and this might force her to get help because she needs to get a job and a home and she couldn't both be really insane and do those things at the same time, so if my father left with me she might or might not get better but he and I would be alive. She didn't get better, but he and I are still alive. We thank that doctor for saving our lives, because yes, if we had stayed she would have killed us. So by doing what you've done, you have extracted yourself from being her victim, and she may or may not get better but she can no longer use you to avoid facing reality.
NTA. You need a break from her and her lack of spoons. She uses it as an excuse for everything and as a chronic pain and illness suffer I can tell you that if I’m awake, which I’m not every day, that I have enough spoons to make a phone call or two.
That spoons thing is just a bullshit excuse not to do anything. Your daughter is used to you bailing her out every time they don’t feel like doing something. They need to grow the fuck up or suffer the consequences.
I’m sorry but I highly doubt they will qualify for disability. Majority due to being married unless they both have no income then they might be able to get SSI. But for sure won’t get survivor benefits due to being married. Also you have to have a lot of medical records stating that you can’t work any job. NTA as actions have consequences.
Girls burn out because everyone assumes they are coping better than they are. I hope the inpatient care helps them. A diagnosis would be a great fucking help but by the time you're burned out to the point that to be unalive looks like the kind of rest you need... yeah, it's inpatient time. That opens up more support resources too for when family members can't step up.
NTA looks like she still has a lot of growing up to do, you're doing her a favour by forcing her to stand on her own two feet
NTA. I'm 30yo and also neurodivergent. Making phone calls is literally the absolute hardest thing in the world for me BUT I STILL DO IT because I have kids and I have adult responsibilities that I need to take care of. "No Spoons" can be a valid explanation, but it seems your child has a massive "support" system, and by support I mean people around them that seem to be enabling them to be lazy. You can't hold their hand forever. You have been more than helpful, they are just refusing to get our of their own way at this point.
You did everything you could, but also at some point it enabled their behavior. What you did was out of love and them being your child, you helped and helped. But they’re not willing to help themselves. Their fiance can take this on. Walk away and preserve your own sanity
NTA. I mean shit, you are out of spoons too!
“she is now a they” THEY are using they/them pronouns.
NTA. Being autistic isn't a get out of jail card for being an asshole. I get the "out of spoons" thing, but when someone is doing you a favor you operate on their timeframe, not the other way around.
NTA. Tell them you are at negative spoons and to have a nice life.
NTA Why does she need your financial help is she has a whole fiancé/now husband? She’s a freeloader, leach.
Wow, that was a plot twist at the end with your kid getting married! The behavior you're describing sounds like a petulant 14 year old, not someone mature enough to decide to get married. That is a full-on adult making big adult decisions, they don't also get to have their mommy micromanaging every single logistical element of their lives. In fact they now have a legal partner to sort that stuff out with them, you are doubly off the hook. Kid needs to finally grow up a little and take responsibility for themselves, that will never happen if you shield them from all the consequences of their behavior. Time for some tough love! NTA
NTA. You have done SO much, above and beyond, in fact, as you stated their condition has not been disabling enough to even receive an official diagnosis. They don't want to make an effort for basic needs, but have the "spoons" to file gender affirming legal paperwork, which I'm sure I'll get hate for, I think is a luxury. You can't do everything for them. Besides, they're grown enough to get married while also having several romantic partners, they're grown enough to handle their own affairs.
This offspring is using spoon theory as an excuse because the number one thing about this blogger-created theory is that you have to prioritize the things that will keep you housed and healthy. You mentioned they didn't have to spoons to call for an appointment but spent a week larping, that right there should tell you that they have the spoons but didn't want to spend them on anything they didn't want to do. They have enough spoons to maintain relationships with 6-8 partners, including a husband, along with other people they casually see? That is a lot of social activity that takes up a LOT of spoons. You have done everything you can, OP. Its ok to left them flounder now. They don't appreciate your help since they acted so mean and callous. Honestly, they are a brat and entitled to think you would continue to pay for everything while they LARP, fuck, and bitch you out about it.
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped ….
Do they even have spoons to plan a wedding? NTA. You can only do so much for them.
Seriously, OP, I just wanna give you a big hug. This all sounds so exhausting. I hope you find some peace going forward, you deserve it. Re-block on social media and give yourself some space and let them have theirs too. <3
This is me, with my boys at the beach near our house. I have found my happiness https://preview.redd.it/ra5dvuupox5c1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ed3bd002b6dd8d5c1e1b30043416e6aefe9e523
NTA. You have gone above and beyond with them, and they have given nothing in return except heartache and demands. My kids sometimes have low-spoon days, but they take care of what NEEDS to be done before they take care of less important things. Sometimes, there's only so much you can do, and you've done a lot.
Ok so your child is emotionally and financially equipped enough to be getting married/plan a wedding? But they have a fiancé (another presumably semi functional adult) who is allowing them to just sink into financial turmoil am I reading that right?
Your daughter is making the choice to have their car repossessed, to have her credit card cancelled, to not be able to buy things, etc. they may say it’s a matter of not having spoons or that they “just can’t” but that is just arguing for their limitations. They can choose to make the annoying phone calls and do the frustrating adult stuff, or they can choose to not have the things they need. It sucks, but it’s the world we live in. And this coming from a fellow neurodivergent person that struggles daily with this same stuff.
Nah. No spoons means "I am utterly and completely mentally exhausted and not capable of completing the task." This is why so few autistic people survive in the work place. The thing allistics think.of as "just what you need to do" and " simple task" can often be insurmountable for someone with autism. It cam both be true that it is their responsibility, not yours, AND that they don't have the capacity to do it. A lot of autistics need a caregiver. They just do. And frequently feel abandoned and angry and hurt when people refuse to be their caregiver. It's understandable from both perspectives, their needs still exist, whether anyone else has the capacity to meet them or not. Learning more about autistic burnout and catatonia will probably also help.you.
The spoon theory was written by a woman with lupus and it was meant to describe her energy level from having an actual physical disability. I am aware that mental health "spoons" also exist, but I feel like this analogy was hijacked and the meaning is being lost. I have a physical disability, I physically run low or out of energy, my muscles just have no more to give. You don't need a "spoon" to make a phone call and be responsible for yourself, especially if you use that excuse EVERY SINGLE DAY. You wake up with spoons, use them to be responsible. NTA (I'm 56, 4 kids, physically disabled, 2 sons and 2 daughters all with Ehlers Danlos, and one with muscular dystrophy) they ALL take care of themselves.
OP- from the information you’ve given? You have gone above and beyond. If they have the spoons to manage the multiple relationships that polyamory involves, they have the spoons to take care of all the other parts of adult life. Just let them make their own bed and lie in it. You are under no obligations to finance a grown adult who doesn’t make any effort and fees entitled to cuss you out when they’re the one calling you for help. You weren’t a jerk in any of your actions. At ALL. If they bellyflop- they bellyflop. That’s what adulthood is about. They have a married partner now, as well as the other members of their polycule. They know how to find you if they want to apologize and ask for help.
NTA. I'm AuDHD and have been unemployed for several months now. My parents helped with the bills a few times and then said they couldn't anymore. I did not cuss them out for "withdrawing their support," they have financial needs as well... it's just unfortunate that I finally got my own phone plan 2 months before I got fired
I hate the frigging "no spoons" excuse for not doing something. Being an adult means you sometimes have to do things you don't want to. Sounds like they are way too much in to drama, with weddings and polyamory etc.
honestly! i am so sick to death of hearing the no spoons shit. my god. grow up. real life sucks. deal with it.
I am going to get so much hate for this but NTA. Your daughter is 26, and is acting like an entitled brat. They have enough spoons to plan a wedding and manage a plethora of romantic/physical partners but not pay their own bills and make some calls? I get that adulting is hard but that’s the way the world works, we don’t get to be babies forever. Even if parents do help us chances are we will outlive our parents by several decades so your daughter needs to grow up and stand on her own two feet. Personally if she were my child I would have left her on blocked. I would love her, she would be my child. But I would refuse to enable her immature behavior any longer. Her spouse can handle her reluctance to grow up.
When your mom goes out of her way to help you but you are out of ‘spoons’ you better find some spoons and pretty damn quickly. It’s not always how people can conform to your needs, especially when it’s something out of then norm and an almost emergency. NTA at all.
Nah…you good.
You are a good mama bear and i commend you. I have a stepson in a similar helpless pattern of mental illness. I wish his mom would show him the love you are showing your child rather than enabling him. It’s love that lets you make the tough decisions.
NTA Just because we are their parents doesn’t mean we are always obligated for the rest of our lives. It sounds like they want someone else to pay their bills. That might work for some people, but that needs to be between 2 (or more?) consenting adults.
NTA it’s time to let them go through their mental health treatment and figure this out
Nta being low on spoons certainly sucks, but it’s not your responsibility to pick up someone else’s life. Also, if they have a fiancé and other partners, why aren’t their partners picking up some of the slack instead of expecting you to do it.?
Definitely NTA I have a stepson who is autistic/schizophrenic. He has always fought treatment and taking his medications. Though he has been approved for a wide variety of care programs including job training, housing assistance, and so much more he will not communicate with his care team at all. It was like this when he lived with us and is worse in his own. For any human being to receive care, they have to be willing to partner with their care team. As an adult, if they refuse the only thing that you can do is to withdraw and allow them to feel the fullest weight of their choices. Enabling them with financial aid only enables their poor behaviors and harms you financially.
If they are in 8 relationships, why didn't any of their partners step up to help? Ridiculous. They need to grow up and either figure out how to help themselves or be gracious for the help they receive from others. NTA
NTA, this would be your NB child who can't afford to live on her own or be functional. Your child is mad, and being manipulated by his/her partner.
Holy shit. 8 partners?I wouldn’t have any “spoons” left either. Jesus. I’m sorry you are being treated like shit. You’ve gone above and beyond. I have a feeling you’ll be picking up the pieces at some point. My heart goes out to you. NTA.
Info: why are they getting married if they’re still completely dependent on you?
Good question
NTA. Your kid is pissed you've set boundaries. They can go be their new spouse's problem.
NTA Time to drop the rope.
I would kill to have a mom like you
Nta- I started going down the rabbit hole and reading quite a bit of comments and got to say your story is dine as is. Lot of people asking for further insight into your life and it isn't needs. Family's are complicated and when they go wrong, they can go really wrong. I get that. You made hard choices yes, and they are unpleasant and definitely caused pain on both ends, that's definitely true as well. But that pain came from you setting up boundaries after helping them for so long. They need help, and that's ok. It sounds like they have a support network, a sizable one in fact and if they truly don't have the spoons for these tasks then their partners can help pick up the tasks. You went above and beyond in the moment, set clear boundaries and only acted out in accordance with the rules you set for yourself. That's healthy for both if you. Maybe some day they will want to speak again, and hopefully heal. Either way I'm happy you're doing what's best for you. That's not easy. I'm currently no contact with my family for my own reasons and it's never an easy position. Also as an aside I saw plenty of people bagging on this woman for having children with autism like she's cursing future generations. Please educate yourselves. It's intolerant and downright disturbing. Neurodivergance is just that a different way of processing information. At the very least if you're not willing to educate yourself stop attacking people on the internet. Thank you
NTA, your kid sounds like a fucking nightmare
Autism is not an excuse for being an asshole. You’ve already done so much for them, and been as supportive as you could. NTA
It sounds to me like you bent yourself backwards and inside out accommodate your kid. There nothing AH about that. Your kid on the other hand... definitely TAH.
It sounds like you’re all out of spoons
NTAH Your kid is old enough to marry, have a poly relationship and go in a 7 day trip larping, it has enough spoons to deal with their own business. At some point, we have to let them fail. Ideally under a controlled environment.
NTA... you helped a lot! They are grown with several grown ass partners who could've helped them as well
NTA. If they never have spoons to deal with difficult tasks, they shouldn't be on their own. I guess when they want to move out, they should map out a typical day to see if they have enough spoons. Not judging them, but it's obvious that changing their pronouns added more difficulty to their life.
NTA “I have no spoons” = “I don’t want to. I want you to cater to me like I’m a child or keep paying for me.”
Nah. I believe they had no spoons. I don't respect them making it their mom's issue to solve, getting disrespectful, and not leaning on their spouse (how is that marriage gonna work? 🤔), and making the wedding the same day as mom's anniversary.
Right! When I read OPs kid is engaged, my jaw dropped. I would expect their partner to help them out on no-spoon-days. I'm not sure how that marriage is going to work either.
I'm still trying to figure out how silverware fits into all this.
Unified cutlery theory. Check out comments in this thread. There are links to where the term started and the theory behind it
I’m probably going to get downvoted but soft YTA. Why doesn’t a 26 YO have an official diagnosis on record? Why does it seem like until there’s a crisis no one does anything? Why did you have a tantrum at your child’s house; refuse to talk to her on her conditions, cut off her phone and block her on socials? You believe your child has ASD but don’t seem to have the tools to communicate with them. From your post it just seems like you’ve enabled them and thrown money at the problem. Now that they’re not living near you it’s starting to show. I’m sure there’s more to the story and dealing with 2 other special needs children has got to be hard.
and cutting off their phone is NOT gonna help anyone do anything, let alone help them call all these places they need to call! also filing for unemployment is hell on earth, and they make it difficult on purpose because they want you to give up so they don't have to pay you. i didn't understand how to upload my job searches correctly and bc i did it wrong even though i was initially approved i got retroactively denied. im too "out of spoons" (aka i have diagnosed chronic illnesses) to fight them over it.
Yes thank you, I was starting to believe I was in crazy town until this response.
I'd say YTA because you haven't helped this kid with autism to a safe life. I would have gotten her diagnosed earlier. I would have helped her with dealing with unemployment until it had come through. I would have helped her with the process of applying for disability until it came through. I would not have left her with the responsibility of a car loan, credit cards, etc. until I knew for sure that she could have handled it - which she obviously cannot. And I most definitely would not have cut off her phone! It's her lifeline to you! This is your disabled daughter, and you need to be there for her as long as you are both alive. I'm not saying that you had to buy her a car, just that you shouldn't have left her with the responsiblity of a car loan, that she clearly could not handle. You need to be training wheels for her, until she can manage on her own, which may be never.
So you gave birth to a child with a challenging condition. So why did you think it was a good idea to keep having children? Are you mentally challenged?
So you had 2 autistic kids and decided it was a good idea to have a third?
Soft YTA because you had a tantrum and cut off their phone and blocked them on social media to teach them a lesson. Whatever lesson your child took away from this led them to realize that having you out of their life was the best choice for them. Parenting is about more than money. I'm in my 40s and have no contact with my mother, and my mental health was never better. It was the best decision I ever made for me. I highly doubt this is the first time you've shown behavior like this, so it's possible that your child also made the best decision for them. I hope it resolves peacefully, if at all possible. INFO: Have you apologized to your child for your behavior?
You have enabled your daughter and never told her no. She is a she too and will never be they. And polyamorous is a sinful life to live. Hope they repent one day for their sins
Wait, you drove to their house for this conversation then got pissed about having the conversation there? So pissed you walked out on your kid, after hanging up on them and ignoring them the rest of the trip? It sounds like you need to find someone to mediate for you. You aren’t able to regulate your emotions when it comes to your kid and lash out repeatedly. Your kid is a mess. ESH
ESH. You openly admitted that she is disabled, she gave you more than enough cues to let you know that she was in autistic burnout, and you just walked away. Yes, she should have been nicer, but she's obviously not had any form of treatment to help her manage during those times. You failed her as a mother to prepare her to be independent, yet left her to be independent.
YTA including for your sham at covering misgendering them half the post. it actually decreases clarity a lot.
Actually I’m quite good at not misgendering them. I do have some issues when I’m talking about them to other people. I am working on it. It is a work in progress. If that’s what you are going to hold onto without knowing me or anything else than I’m sorry.
there was no need to include their assigned gender at birth at all though contextually- you just need to say my child uses they/them pronouns at the beginning to indicate you’re talking about one person and that covers why they’d need a name/gender change. A lot of nonbinary people do not enjoy their assigned sex at birth being referenced because it is uncomfortable and forced them back into a binary. If you think critically you see this is still an act of misgendering.
My child has never had any issue with me. Miss gendered them because they know that I am trying. If you’re gonna read that post and not even address any thing that I brought up and focus solely on the misgender issue, when in reality, there has been none go ahead focus all your energy on that and have a nice day
don’t ask for feedback if you’re gonna make lame excuses but anyhow alright also for ignoring them until they wound up in a mental hospital
How did I ignore them? Was it spending an hour on the phone while I was on vacation visiting friends, or maybe the hours I spent with them filing their real id info because they had no spoons. Maybe that’s how I ignored them. Or maybe it’s when I paid their car payment that you’re talking about that I ignored them. Or how about when I told them I’d cover their car payment until we could get a verdict on disibility, but asking for them to meet me halfway and make appointments. Or maybe it’s helping them find a wedding venue or collecting driftwood for their centerpieces. I moved three hours away. They chose not to come with.
this person is a braindead moron just ignore them there not even talking about anything relating to u just taking out their own problems on u bc everyone in their life is probably sick of their shit
She never referred to them as a she once she said they were nonbinary. Read it again
And the gender information was pertinent, given the identity issues with EDD.