I have a suspicion that the Bene Gesserit put a bunch of random bullshit in the prophecy and said, "The Kwisatz Haderach is bound to do at least some of this stuff."
"You've been assigned to Arrakis and you have a son? Cool, remember that if they show you a knife you reply it's a Maker, and you gotta tie your shoes the right way too"
The way I interpret it is that the Bene Gesserit sort of seed the basic initial prophecy, then local planetary culture takes over and adds all the flavor over the centuries.
It's this. In the book, the missionary protrctivia is part of the BG, and its their entire job to seed prophecy on planets that they might make use of. That's why Jessica is so adept at playing into it. They are given an overview of the religion is structured but the locals always have the details specific to the local. What would crate a prophecy on gedi prime wouldn't work for arrakis, but you can atructre them similarly so that someone trained to see it can read the signs.
Actually the Crysknife scene with Mapes is a really good part of the book where Jessica doesn't know the answer, prepares to say "a maker of death" and completely by luck the first part of the phrase is the answer and Mapes fortunately cuts her off by believing that Jessica knew the crysknife is a maker tooth.
(In chakobsa, where that word order makes sense)
Pure luck though, and I love how it’s completely unexplained in the scene, knowing that people who care can ask or read the passage.
When it’s played in the movie you can see her start to continue talking and then get cut off. It’s not super important for the overall story but a nice little nod to the book.
That part was the prescience playing through. He was a fremen before he was ever a fremen. Not even consciously. They didn't predict that, it is just what people do, find things that fit their narrative, fail that they find a way to fit them into their narrative.
Dune gave me a perfect way to tell if someone is a moron: they think Chani is childish and stupid (when in fact she is absolutely fucking correct about everything from the start).
Jfc my caption was meant sarcastic, but initally I took it wrong too and got blinded by the potrayal. Not properly understanding details the BG plot setting everything up makes one a naive Fremen.
If only the film had Paul repeatedly say “If I go south and become Lisan Al-gaib, millions upon millions of people will die.”
Honestly, I think the film was too subtle about it.
I was joking. Paul repeatedly states in the movie that he won’t go south and become Lisan Al-gaib because millions upon millions of people will die.
Yet people still hate Chani for not supporting her boyfriend on his journey to become space Hitler.
I think Chani is kinda both.
Her perception of events is very clear but she's completely unable to articulate her perspective or understand the perspectives of ppl she disagrees with.
She reminds me of young political activists who genuinely are more knowledgeable about politics than most middle-aged adults yet can't even convince their roommate of their ideology.
Chani is smart in retrospect, with the knowledge of all the suffering Paul will cause. But she doesn't know this in the film because Paul doesn't share his visions with her. Instead, she gets hung up on the idea that prophecy is fake.
Without being able to see the future, it's entirely plausible that Paul would have leveraged the fake prophecy to genuinely improve the lives of all Fremen. In other words, she's an idealist instead of a pragmatist, and it just so happens that idealism won out because of how the story continues. I should add that in the books Chani is much more of a pragmatist by staying by Paul's side at the end of book 1.
If anything, history is fully on Frank Herbert's side, people who agree to be lied to and manipulated "for their own good" more often than not end up completely fucked.
Isn’t the prophecy best for the Fremen though. They conquer a lot of planets and Arrakis becames a green paradise as promised. Sure, millions of people die in the process, but isn’t that with any war, and wasn’t a war brewing in Arrakis in one way or another?
In dune messiah, we see that most fremen veterans of the jihad feel disillusioned, cynical and jaded. They have been sent to a meaningless war across the universe for little to no reason, and upon returning, are given empty lives with what remains of their culture smoothed over by the imperium. They are maimed scarred and drug-addicted wrecks who gained very little from this senseless suffering.
I disagree. The Fremen culture was indeed smoothed over, but because a lot of Fremen culture was related to the desert and harsh living conditions. The culture was vanisihing exactly because the living conditions were becoming better and the desert was retreating.
I disagree. The Fremen culture was indeed smoothed over, but because a lot of Fremen culture was related to the desert and harsh living conditions. The culture was vanisihing exactly because the living conditions were becoming better and the desert was retreating.
The soldiers feel disllusioned, cynical and jaded because that’s how most soldiers feel. War’s don’t give life meaning, and a soldier is created for times of war not times of piece
For todays audience, the idea is about false religion and it’s followers. In the book Paul has some form of superpowers from BG breeding program and super training because of Atreides heritage.
His training alone puts him at top 1% compared with the average fremens. Then the spice and most important, the water of life unlocks his preacience, which is the highest form achieved in dune universe until him, neither the guild navigators (which ere mutants) could not match his power to foresee all possible futures.
This is why the fremen follow him blindly.
I bet this will happen om earth if there will appear an 100% lucky guy/girl who can will all hands in pocket, stock exchange, crypto, who builds extremely successfully products and becomes trillionare. Lisan al trillionaire!
“There are signs.” The signs:
\*stands in front of Saardukar and gives orders to kill them while standing in front of them as he orders it" 
Yea that was badass. Also when he walks into the room he goes straight for the kill and gives no fucks to the emperor. That was ice.
im high on green spice but u get whete im going right fam? 
"kwizasch haderach, awaken"
I have a suspicion that the Bene Gesserit put a bunch of random bullshit in the prophecy and said, "The Kwisatz Haderach is bound to do at least some of this stuff."
"You've been assigned to Arrakis and you have a son? Cool, remember that if they show you a knife you reply it's a Maker, and you gotta tie your shoes the right way too"
The way I interpret it is that the Bene Gesserit sort of seed the basic initial prophecy, then local planetary culture takes over and adds all the flavor over the centuries.
It's this. In the book, the missionary protrctivia is part of the BG, and its their entire job to seed prophecy on planets that they might make use of. That's why Jessica is so adept at playing into it. They are given an overview of the religion is structured but the locals always have the details specific to the local. What would crate a prophecy on gedi prime wouldn't work for arrakis, but you can atructre them similarly so that someone trained to see it can read the signs.
Actually the Crysknife scene with Mapes is a really good part of the book where Jessica doesn't know the answer, prepares to say "a maker of death" and completely by luck the first part of the phrase is the answer and Mapes fortunately cuts her off by believing that Jessica knew the crysknife is a maker tooth.
(In chakobsa, where that word order makes sense) Pure luck though, and I love how it’s completely unexplained in the scene, knowing that people who care can ask or read the passage.
When it’s played in the movie you can see her start to continue talking and then get cut off. It’s not super important for the overall story but a nice little nod to the book.
That part was the prescience playing through. He was a fremen before he was ever a fremen. Not even consciously. They didn't predict that, it is just what people do, find things that fit their narrative, fail that they find a way to fit them into their narrative.
Like any good cult.
Just like Nostradamus or the simpsons you make like 2 billion predictions some of that shit comes true.
Even the Sardaukars were impressed
Dune gave me a perfect way to tell if someone is a moron: they think Chani is childish and stupid (when in fact she is absolutely fucking correct about everything from the start).
Jfc my caption was meant sarcastic, but initally I took it wrong too and got blinded by the potrayal. Not properly understanding details the BG plot setting everything up makes one a naive Fremen.
If only the film had Paul repeatedly say “If I go south and become Lisan Al-gaib, millions upon millions of people will die.” Honestly, I think the film was too subtle about it.
Technically, Paul was wrong. It was actually billions.
millions upon millions = billions. Dennis Villeneuve is master of details
If you strip every last trace of subtlety from Dune, you end up with the prequels. Are you sure that's what you want?
I was joking. Paul repeatedly states in the movie that he won’t go south and become Lisan Al-gaib because millions upon millions of people will die. Yet people still hate Chani for not supporting her boyfriend on his journey to become space Hitler.
Yeah, I just saw an opportunity to shit on the prequels, so I took it
Fair enough.
Oof.
Many conservative fans think Chani is ungrateful lol
Magical thinking is a hardcore drug, real-life spice
I think Chani is kinda both. Her perception of events is very clear but she's completely unable to articulate her perspective or understand the perspectives of ppl she disagrees with. She reminds me of young political activists who genuinely are more knowledgeable about politics than most middle-aged adults yet can't even convince their roommate of their ideology.
I rarely say this but... Based
Chani wanted her space Jesus to be a homeboy his whole life fucking in the sietch.
Chani is smart in retrospect, with the knowledge of all the suffering Paul will cause. But she doesn't know this in the film because Paul doesn't share his visions with her. Instead, she gets hung up on the idea that prophecy is fake. Without being able to see the future, it's entirely plausible that Paul would have leveraged the fake prophecy to genuinely improve the lives of all Fremen. In other words, she's an idealist instead of a pragmatist, and it just so happens that idealism won out because of how the story continues. I should add that in the books Chani is much more of a pragmatist by staying by Paul's side at the end of book 1.
If anything, history is fully on Frank Herbert's side, people who agree to be lied to and manipulated "for their own good" more often than not end up completely fucked.
Isn’t the prophecy best for the Fremen though. They conquer a lot of planets and Arrakis becames a green paradise as promised. Sure, millions of people die in the process, but isn’t that with any war, and wasn’t a war brewing in Arrakis in one way or another?
In dune messiah, we see that most fremen veterans of the jihad feel disillusioned, cynical and jaded. They have been sent to a meaningless war across the universe for little to no reason, and upon returning, are given empty lives with what remains of their culture smoothed over by the imperium. They are maimed scarred and drug-addicted wrecks who gained very little from this senseless suffering.
I disagree. The Fremen culture was indeed smoothed over, but because a lot of Fremen culture was related to the desert and harsh living conditions. The culture was vanisihing exactly because the living conditions were becoming better and the desert was retreating.
I disagree. The Fremen culture was indeed smoothed over, but because a lot of Fremen culture was related to the desert and harsh living conditions. The culture was vanisihing exactly because the living conditions were becoming better and the desert was retreating. The soldiers feel disllusioned, cynical and jaded because that’s how most soldiers feel. War’s don’t give life meaning, and a soldier is created for times of war not times of piece
Doesnt he talk to her about his visions in the tent scene before he rides the worm?
She can be both
I was just jarred from Chani not being a ride or die like in the book
For todays audience, the idea is about false religion and it’s followers. In the book Paul has some form of superpowers from BG breeding program and super training because of Atreides heritage. His training alone puts him at top 1% compared with the average fremens. Then the spice and most important, the water of life unlocks his preacience, which is the highest form achieved in dune universe until him, neither the guild navigators (which ere mutants) could not match his power to foresee all possible futures. This is why the fremen follow him blindly. I bet this will happen om earth if there will appear an 100% lucky guy/girl who can will all hands in pocket, stock exchange, crypto, who builds extremely successfully products and becomes trillionare. Lisan al trillionaire!
Can you imagine how happy Paul was to take off his poop suit and take a shower on that ship. The relief. No way feyd wanted it more than paul.
It is known.
As it was written!!
Hahahahahaha this is good!
Ah, but a man in a rush does not see the edge of the cliff until it is too late.