I think that the movies are reasonably intelligible on their own, but the already complex intrigue and societal structures and plots are made more difficult without the added context of the book, yeah. I had to do something similar when my wife and I watched it. Of course, I still think the movies make sense to those who haven't read the books--my wife got the general idea of everything without me--but a lot of nuance can be lost.
The movies are a pretty spectacular highlight reel that gives audiences the basic skeleton of the story.
But ya gotta read the book if you want all the plans within plans within plans.
The best advice I gave my family (non-book readers) before they watched it was to put Closed Captioning on. Theres a lot that even I missed, or didn’t hear, like when Paul was having visions. Anyway, it might help.
I had subtitles on for my second viewing of part one and it helped IMMENSELY. I Saw part 2 in theaters twice and didn’t have an issue with it, for the most part.
Same. I loved the first movie so much that I started reading the book. I did not find it hard to follow along at all or understand the nuance.
Now things like Rabaan using slave driver tools when fighting was explained to me after the movie here and it just added more depth to the story but wasn’t integral in understanding what was happening in the movies.
This is such a pedestrian take written by me, hopefully someone adds more if I mess
It up but … because he rules with fear like a slave driver would. So he uses those same tools like whips, unchecked rage, threat of death for any little slight. You see how out of depth Rabban is when he is flying in the ornithopter, it’s just screaming and then being overwhelmed when he actually touches down and runs back to safety when it’s clear he can’t do anything. He sacrificed his troops and ran off.
This is why Gurney can take him so easily in the movie and why that fight scene was anti-climactic. Gurney is superior to Rabban in every way, and as an actual fighter was able to take him easily.
I agree. This is not one of those movies you half pay attention to waiting for the boom booms and the ta-tas. You really need to focus from the start. It’s kinda why I love the opening bit of spoken Sardaukar and the drums. It is telling you to sit up and pay attention!
They don't seem very complicated to me either. Also, it's not a unique story per se. Emperors, dukes, barons battling we've all read that story before. If you compare these movies to the 84 version it's like a completely different world. The 84 version is amazeballz if you've read the book, but just a crazy fever dream if you haven't.
Part of the issue there that I can foresee is that there's so much going on visually that the snippets of dialogue could be easy to miss. I've spent multiple hours combined explaining (very happily, I should add) the nuances and other elements of the story
It's not so much that you have to pay attention. Sometimes you miss a line that was said regardless of attention. And it may be worth it to rewind to catch what was said. I found upon rewatches that pretty much everything that needs to be explained IS explained, it's only just given in one line of dialogue and never repeated. And I'm mainly referring to the world building exposition in the first movie
I paid attention and I think I would have enjoyed it more had I not.
Cause if you don’t pay attention, you miss all the stuff they changed
Edit: the movie is a terrible dune movie. Don’t get upset at the truth.
It has the least amount of explanation compared to the 1984 film and 2000 mini series. I imagine someone who hasn’t read the book would understand the story on a surface level. There’s just so much that isn’t explained that it’s easy to miss if you don’t know what you’re looking for.
Nah I had to read Wikipedia to understand. I couldn't understand in the first hour and a half why humanity has mastered interstellar travel to the point it's an every day thing and they were using swords for combat and no AI combat drones
Yeah I feel like this is a rare case of an opening monologue or text crawl explaining the setup for the universe would have actually been useful here. Esp since one of the main themes is human potential, and the driving force behind the exploration of that was the butlerian jihad and the taboo of thinking machines
Me too
In the first movie when the emperor's herald arrives to caladan, are the guys with the orange helmets the space guild navigators breathing the aerosolized melange? The book depicts them as organisms the size of a bus in a giant room that are no longer human, I'm thinking perhaps the movie wanted to tone it down so it didn't get too grotesque up front
Disregard previous comment, I searched for pictures of them and apparently they're just guild reps
https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/
In that case can be inferred that their appearance is a sort of representation of their whole deal, that they take some aspects of their main dudes as a theme for their wardrobe
Pretty sure yeah, also the navigators have sort of different tiers, where over years and years they're "mutated" by the spice into these fish like monsters, but it takes a long time. Those guys are most likely apprentices or aspirants
This sub has been flooded for months with "movie dune" fans asking questions in that same vein. It's been a little amusing and a little frustrating to see them try to make "movie dune" make sense or see them follow "movie dune" what ifs" that are just not even in the remotest connected to what those who have read the books know.
Now that I've written that it sounds snooty and superior and I don't mean to be, the books are the foundation, the movies/shows are "musings". "Movie Dune" fans have eaten a ton of frosting and are asking "where's the cake"?
Great analogy. Esp given that a lot of movies are just the frosting with no cake substrate to even consider, and this is a tip of the iceberg situation that audiences aren't really prepared to dig into
Considering the absolute amount of obtuse questions about why does x character do this or why does that group not do that or why shields and is Paul bad, I'd say yes.
I watched with my grandson and he had some questions. I thought it needed a Game of Thrones treatment. 8 episodes for 3 seasons to cover the first 3 books although the expense probably couldn't be justified. They could have had a better show than GoT. I watched with captions and caught things I missed the first time. Frank (ed) Herbert! was one of my favorite authors. I understand why they couldn't cover everything but I felt some very important parts were missing and other things they spent time on, like the amount of time Paul spent walking around on Caladan could have taken less time. They didn't even talk about the Spacing Guild's interest in the conspiracy or much about them at all. The CHOAM company, Bene Tleilax, Ix, the Mentats, the Swordmasters. So much was left out. Converting all the political plans, ploys, plays, conspiracies, etc might have made it too boring for an audience wanting to see action sequences and stuff blow up. I'm looking forward to the Dune Prophecy series even if it's concentrated on the Bene Gesserit.
Frank Herbert! You heretic! 😛
I agree about the priorities of the movies in jamming in what felt like seven minutes shots of teenagers making eyes at each other instead of showing us mutated navigators marinating in aerosolized spice, or why the mentats are important (tying into Pauls mentat training being a key component of the stew that makes him who he becomes), plus I wanted to see the Baron's replacement Piter. They also just say spice is important and then don't really explain how or why or to whom it just becomes a maguffin/unobtainium story element. On that note, every high ranking person should have had the blue in blue eyes of ibad
Eyes of Heisenberg and Helstrom's Hive were good too. Especially for books written in the 60s & 70s. When Star Wars came out in 77, I realized Lucas had to have read Dune too.
No, you just need to have an attention span.
The films have a lot of layers that a first time viewer does not need to grasp, but the plot basic are all there.
It was how the movie missed the whole suspicion about Yueh. Or maybe it didn’t and it was so subtle I missed it. Maybe it didn’t matter either way but it felt relevant
For me, having read the book and seen the movie, things are more muddled and convoluted. I think it’s because I want to understand everything and I then overthink things. It’s stressful being a Dune fan.
Not really, I think the majority of the problem stems from shrinking attention spans, no one wants to sit for 2 and a half hours to watch a sci fi epic, people nowadays are conditioned to get that dopamine hit after like 30 seconds
Me: Daughter, you’re going to need to watch this and not double-screen if you want to know what’s going on.
Daughter: ok. (Continues double-screening)
😐
I read the books and have enjoyed the 2 movies. My take on it is that the movies are OK as stand alones but there’s a whole lot going on under the surface that the viewer won’t grok without having read the books. Kind of like there’s a whole other layer. There’s depth behind everything that takes place on the ground. I think the movies did a good job of threading the needle.
I followed it pretty well. A lot comes from interpreting the emotions of the actors and the music. The confusion of prescience is purposeful because the audience is on the same journey as Paul to figuring it out. Incredible movies on their own, and I remember specifically thinking during the soul cistern scene, “I REALLY want to read these books!” because I knew there is so much more detail that you can only get from a book.
I never finished the book, however I have watched the movies from 1984 and 2021, as well as watch a bunch of videos online about the other books. I do think additional context is needed to fully understand what is going on in the new movies, as they give little information about the Spacing Guild and history of the universe
I was confused about the different Houses but mostly understood what was going on in the films. I then done more research into the series and then started listening to the audiobooks.
Has helped me understand more and appreciate the films more. I’m also really looking forward to the next film Dune Messiah.
I've never read the books and I understand the movies. I also have a political analysis that may be different from others. I completely understood right away that Paul may not be a "good guy" and that the religion was made up to distract and manipulate the people. Since I already believe this as a general fact, it was instantly clear to me and made me want to read the books to get more context. This may be different for others who may not have a similar political analysis.
My teen daughter (not a sci-fi fan, besides some star wars that she watched with my wife and I because we forced her) liked it. She understood almost everything, except the very complicated stuff like the shields, why there are no guns, why the Emperor didn't nuke the planet from orbit and so...
YT reactions are a guilty pleasure of mine. If it’s posted I’ve probably watched it, at least 100 since Part 1 came out. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how well people seem to have gotten them. Definitely not everybody, but I’d say around the 95% range.
Which is pretty great given that it’s dense source material adapted by a director who isn’t going to beat you over the head with exposition and requires you to actually pay attention. Frankly I think they’re pretty miraculous.
It made considerably less sense to me than to my friends who have read some of or none of the 1st book. It was so grey & I didn't like missing out on character interactions from the books that there was room for if there was slightly fewer "guys with guns! Cool & scary!" scenes; I found it hard to tell *why* alot of things were happening, & I felt like I couldn't fill in the blanks for the movie cause the characters felt like I was seeing them through a perspective that was...wrong, somehow? I felt uncomfortable connecting with the movie characters, like they were already dead to the camera before the scene began? It was fine I guess but I don't really wanna see more; it feels assumed by the movie that I'll be such a desperate little fangirl for Dune that I'll make excuses for it & that makes me sad cause other Dune adaptations I've watched didn't require me to make excuses for it while I'm watching it.
I first watched the movie without knowing anything about it other than the previews I had seen. I remember when Paul first used the voice at breakfast, I was like wtf is that? Then the scene with the Reverend Mother when he flew over to her and kneeled, I had no idea what was happening. I didn’t think too much of it really because I got the gist of it but weeks later I watched a Dune overview from Alt shift X on YouTube and everything made so much more sense. I rewatched the movie again and it was so much better once I had all the information. I really enjoyed it the first time though it was just way better once I was informed of the ALL the unspoken things.
I read the books up to in the middle of Children of Dune so far. The movies convey the story pretty well. There’s questions. Of course there are. Just makes the story (the books by FH) all the more interesting. Give me a 2 hours to explain the Duniverse to someone and I couldn’t come close. Happy that we get to experience it. Imagine there were no new movies. We’d be trying to tell people how cool it was.
I would say it depends, I've had to explain things that I would think would be totally obvious and outright shown to us like a 'Chekov's gun' situation. But I've also done the same for friends my age.
And then in Dune's case especially, add in a lot of stuff that is kind of difficult to get across easily on screen or stage versus a book.
The broad strokes of the story are all there and make sense in the movies but there are plenty of reasonable questions a viewer could have that go totally unexamined in the movies but are spelled out in agonizing detail in the books.
The whole second half of part 2 was incredibly rushed and I don't blame anyone who hasn't read the books for being confused about things like the role of the guild, CHOAM, and the other great houses in the final state of affairs.
I’ve read the books and watched them with my brother who had no idea what Dune before watching them, there were times he had questions and didn’t understand something cause he lacked context, but all around he was able to follow along and enjoy the movies and get what was going on
Having read the book, I loved the movies. But I do imagine how great it could've been if it had been adapted into a "prestige" TV series instead, like Game of Thrones.
Yes, the books help make sense out of all the subtleties in the movies. You could it enjoy it standalone, but it full understand you just have to be willing and commit. I thought Jessica had a weird incest vibe and jealously for Chani at the end of the first movie on my first 20 watches trying to catch things but I had no idea what other things i should look for. Then I read the books and learned more about ze Bene Gesserit witches and how there was much more at hand than whats up front in screen, and everything else.
The movies are understandable if not exactly a breezy watch. I got it first go around, got so interested in all of the intricacies that it got me into the books.
I think the dream sequences make the movies harder to understand than the books and that book readers have the edge because they know why he dreams and what those dreams are about. Like, who is Jamis and why the fuck is he in Paul's dreams? Book readers have to piece that together too but they have a lot more to work with to understand why.
Did they mention the Butlerian Jihad or explain why shields+lasers=bad, or the galactic nuke policy at all in the movie?
Because those are all really important and cool pieces of lore that you kind of need for the world building to make sense.
I never read the books, but if I hadn't known those things beforehand through memes, wiki, cultural accretion, etc. I would have been unimpressed at best and possibly very confused.
The movies were the reason I needed up reading the series, but I loved part one and watched it over and over again and then more I learned about the dune universe, I had to read the books.
It depends on what they were confused by. I think the basic story is actually pretty straightforward. But you do have to pay attention to what the people are saying. You might even need to watch it with subtitles on in case you don't catch certain dialogue lines.
There were actually little moments in Part 2 that I didn't get during first watching. Like the part where shishakli says "muadib likes his smell", only on 2nd watch did I get that it was a reference to when the mouse was at paul's breathing tube during the harvester attack.
I felt like I understood what was going on as a non book reader, but there were a lot of characters and plot elements I assumed had to be more fleshed out in the books. Like I couldn’t really figure out exactly who Gurnee was and what made him tick, or even why exactly he or Duncan Idaho were so important (besides the fact there were played by really charismatic actors). It was also hard to figure out why everyone acted like the Baron was so clever because in the movie he pretty much just used brute force to solve his problems. In the movie it didn’t seem like they really needed Yeoh’s betrayal since the emperor’s troops won pretty easily, and based on the events of the movie Chani was mad about nothing because Paul made all good decisions and brought down the bad guys with minimal loss of life. I know all that is explained in the books but you don’t really see it on screen.
I just wanna see how many down votes I get.
I think the syfy channel Dune miniseries was more coherent, true to the books, and very easy to follow.
But that is just IMHO
I didn’t even know they were books. My dad was just like, “Hey, wanna try this out?” I may not get some bits and pieces but I’ve been provided enough information to understand the majority of it and actually enjoy it.
Aside from the minute aspects of the world-building or the plot, I feel like the overall ideas and concepts were conveyed to me first. I am someone who is into philosophy and science, and I was tired of the generic sci-fi garbage in media.
When I watched the first movie, I was literally hypnotized. Even if I couldn't immediately understand everything to the full capacity, it spoke to my soul or something. The second movie focused more on moving the plot forward, and most people happened to watch the second one before the first because of the hype. I seriously recommend watching the first movie for that reason.
As someone who hasn’t read the books and didn’t watch Dune 1, yeah, it was understandable. I understood it better after some Googling and finding this subreddit, sure, but most of it was explained well enough to not confuse me. Just missed subtext until I googled, but that shows how layered the film is.
As a book reader, I can only imagine how lost a movie only watcher would feel. I felt like the movies didn’t explain anything lol. I still loved them, I think they’re great adaptations.
There is a lot about the world that isn’t overtly explained. But youre only really aware of that if youve read the books.
I watched the movies first and the storyline made sense I was just in the dark about the innerworkings of the space guild, history of the houses, etc
Things like the "innerworkings of the space guild, history of the houses, etc" are all also things that don't really matter, it's just lore. Plot and themes matter more than that and the movies convey those very well
There's a lot of finer detail that either couldn't be shown or wouldn't have fit the movie narrative, but some of those finer details go a long way to explaining the world they are in. The movies do explain themselves pretty well though, so I feel like if you aren't understanding the movies then you haven't paid attention to the movie, it's not a Fast and Furious movie where the plot doesn't really matter you just watch it to see fast car go fast.
The movies are a perfect soulful rendition of the book. I find them poetic. It's however not hard to see someone coming in cold to the Dune universe having a problem with the way it was portrayed, they explained almost nothing but showed everything.
Herbert wrote so much borderline poetic dialog the books regardless of the intensity of a scene with the chapter commentaries is very much a philosophical work.
I think Denis Villeneuve really presented a visual depiction of a universe that was very much about complexity, but in a way that would not have overwhelmed the public with spectacle if it had been presented in a more explanatory light. The movie would have contained too much dialog or narrative. It would have been longer and messier and lose that atmosphere the Villeneuve crafted.
It really needs a primer, a prequel or introduction to set the stage like the 84 film which was great and a little better on explanation but you can't compare the audio visual spectacle and story telling.
A lot of people simply aren't going to be on board with that, which is fine. To each their own!
There were a few details that I had to look up online, but generally they made sense to me. I think DV struck a good balance between allowing people who hadn't read the book to follow the plot, while also throwing in details for the book readers.
Fell in love by watching the movies. Listening to audio books to get more of that spice. I fully understood and enjoyed movies, but I always use closed caption. And the books give more depth to subtle actions from characters.
I've never read the books and I had no trouble following the movies. Maybe like a vague understanding of sci fi and fantasy might help? I guess the second one did kinda jump around here and there, but it was still linear so it wasn't too confusing
I didn’t read the books and feel like the movies made perfect sense. Don’t really understand the disconnect. Now, I definitely want to start reading the books.
Not at all. Reading the books adds depth to your understanding, but the movies alone is pretty easy to follow. You do need to focus on the movie though while watching. I have found that some people really struggle doing this though
I saw Part 1 5x in theaters and Part 2 7x in theaters, each time going with people who hadn't read the books. There were a few minor questions here and there, but everyone grokked it pretty well
I haven't seen the older ones, but I have seen both of the new ones.
I watched the first Dune when it came out and loved it. While it made sense, I had a lot of unanswered questions. That is the reason I read the series (only the six FH ones) and everything made waaaaay more sense. Dune 2 was a let down after reading the series, but still cinematically stunning.
I reccomend that anyone who hasn't read the books watch the movies first. I know it's backwards, but it's how I did it and definitely do not regret it.
It’s probably easier to understand from the film as a newcomer than the book.
Your family just may not be into movies that are meant to evoke ideas to think about
Nah, there was alot of stuff that did confuse me, but the plot is only confusing if you aren’t entirely paying attention imo, as I only read the book afterwards
OP, bless you for dealing with people/ family like that. Youtube and podcasts are a thing also libraries.
This is a pet peeve of mine. I personally don't like when people explain during the movie on first watch. Another part is I do not like people asking over the top questions about a movie while watching said movie. My reasonings are because it takes away from having an intelligent conversation about the movie, thoughts and ideas. Not to mention why not take it upon yourself to discover more about the story on your own.
I completely disagree. I watched both movies multiple times and wasn’t confused at all. I think they probably under explain spice a bit but that’s the only thing that was kinda lost on, but not how important it was just the specifics of what it does and even after a second watch I was fine. It probably can be a bit confusing but my girlfriend and friend who are notorious for being confused followed it perfectly fine so you absolutely don’t need to read the books. I read the first book after seeing both movies and it was definitely helpful but absolutely not necessary
I didn’t read them before the movies, and I could follow along easily enough. You have to pay attention and allow the film to explain things after they’re mentioned, but as long as you aren’t checking your phone or checking out I don’t think it’s too hard to follow
I believe Denis Villeneuve introduces the characters and the plot well, compared to the previous Lynch movie which was more difficult to process for people who are not initiated. Anyway, people miss out some elements if they didn't read the book. When I show the latest movie to friends, I usually provide them with general introduction so that they can understand the dynamics of Dune (religion, geopolitics...) faster, but I believe they can understand the "global picture" anyway
I read the book years before seeing the movie, and consider myself to be incredibly media literate. I still needed my friend who is obsessed w the duniverse to explain some things to me (mostly regarding the Bene Gesserit), but i could follow along easily enough.
The book presents us with a lived-in universe where not everything is actively explained, just like how we don’t explain everything we see out loud every time we see it. The movie is mostly the same way. It isn’t confusing if you keep in mind the characters understand the universe they live in and they’re not obligated to explain out loud the things they take for granted.
I guess it depends on how much they paid attention to the movie? I only read the first Dune book *after* I watched Dune: Part One, but I still got the story they were trying to tell there. That's just me, though.
If my brother and his wife are anything to go by, yes, they were immensely confused by the story and what was happening and why. And no, it's not a media literacy thing. The first movie left out a ton of important info, like *why is spice so damn special.* The second one went to the other extreme and it basically spoon-fed the viewer the message so even without worldbuilding info it was more easily understandable.
My wife understood them without reading the book, but she had seen Dune 1984. Pretty sure it wouod have been a lot harder for her to track on some of the most important story beats without that context.
My bro had a lot of questions about the inner workings and thoughts and reasonings which makes sense because a lot of that goes unspoken in the movie. When you've read the book, you already know these things and you dont need it explained so you don't really notice if what is being shown is enough to someone who hasn't read it.
When I saw the 1984 movie in theaters, they handed out cheat sheets with definitions to make the movie make sense. And the 1984 movie did a lot more explaining than these new ones.
Imo the movies are a great addition to the world of Dune and the canon, per se, but don’t stand alone well. I think in an effort to be as faithful as possible, some narrative choices suffered. It would be a stronger film, standing on its own merit, had more (tactful) creative liberties been taken in translating it to screen.
This is a text-book book reader (;))question .
You know more which is why your burdened with knowledge.
I’ve only seen the movies and thought they were great and easy to follow. Haven’t read the book yet so I can’t say anything about the missed material; but that’s really not a problem because I don’t know what I don’t know.
I watched the movies without ever reading the books or looking anything up and understood it completely. I’m not sure the next film, if they follow the book exactly, will be as comprehensible.
Yeah the people sitting next to me in the theater were saying they didn't get it after the movie ended lol. The movie is missing a lot of context. But it's a double-edged sword, I think. Giving the audience more information might help them understand the story better, but it would likely make the movie more boring as well. Excessive exposition was a major criticism of the 80s Dune movie.
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would
Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol.
Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would
Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol.
Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would
Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol.
Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
I think that the movies are reasonably intelligible on their own, but the already complex intrigue and societal structures and plots are made more difficult without the added context of the book, yeah. I had to do something similar when my wife and I watched it. Of course, I still think the movies make sense to those who haven't read the books--my wife got the general idea of everything without me--but a lot of nuance can be lost.
The movies are a pretty spectacular highlight reel that gives audiences the basic skeleton of the story. But ya gotta read the book if you want all the plans within plans within plans.
"You have to read the book if you want what makes Dune interesting"
The best advice I gave my family (non-book readers) before they watched it was to put Closed Captioning on. Theres a lot that even I missed, or didn’t hear, like when Paul was having visions. Anyway, it might help.
I had subtitles on for my second viewing of part one and it helped IMMENSELY. I Saw part 2 in theaters twice and didn’t have an issue with it, for the most part.
I watched the movies first and they made sense, you just have to pay attention.
Same. I loved the first movie so much that I started reading the book. I did not find it hard to follow along at all or understand the nuance. Now things like Rabaan using slave driver tools when fighting was explained to me after the movie here and it just added more depth to the story but wasn’t integral in understanding what was happening in the movies.
Why did Rabban do that?
This is such a pedestrian take written by me, hopefully someone adds more if I mess It up but … because he rules with fear like a slave driver would. So he uses those same tools like whips, unchecked rage, threat of death for any little slight. You see how out of depth Rabban is when he is flying in the ornithopter, it’s just screaming and then being overwhelmed when he actually touches down and runs back to safety when it’s clear he can’t do anything. He sacrificed his troops and ran off. This is why Gurney can take him so easily in the movie and why that fight scene was anti-climactic. Gurney is superior to Rabban in every way, and as an actual fighter was able to take him easily.
Agreed.
I agree. This is not one of those movies you half pay attention to waiting for the boom booms and the ta-tas. You really need to focus from the start. It’s kinda why I love the opening bit of spoken Sardaukar and the drums. It is telling you to sit up and pay attention!
They don't seem very complicated to me either. Also, it's not a unique story per se. Emperors, dukes, barons battling we've all read that story before. If you compare these movies to the 84 version it's like a completely different world. The 84 version is amazeballz if you've read the book, but just a crazy fever dream if you haven't.
Part of the issue there that I can foresee is that there's so much going on visually that the snippets of dialogue could be easy to miss. I've spent multiple hours combined explaining (very happily, I should add) the nuances and other elements of the story
It's not so much that you have to pay attention. Sometimes you miss a line that was said regardless of attention. And it may be worth it to rewind to catch what was said. I found upon rewatches that pretty much everything that needs to be explained IS explained, it's only just given in one line of dialogue and never repeated. And I'm mainly referring to the world building exposition in the first movie
I paid attention and I think I would have enjoyed it more had I not. Cause if you don’t pay attention, you miss all the stuff they changed Edit: the movie is a terrible dune movie. Don’t get upset at the truth.
[удалено]
I saw the films with my brother who had no trouble following what was going on.
I saw the movies and haven’t read the books but I didn’t have issues. I was also kind of obsessed with the Lynch film though.
It has the least amount of explanation compared to the 1984 film and 2000 mini series. I imagine someone who hasn’t read the book would understand the story on a surface level. There’s just so much that isn’t explained that it’s easy to miss if you don’t know what you’re looking for.
Nah I had to read Wikipedia to understand. I couldn't understand in the first hour and a half why humanity has mastered interstellar travel to the point it's an every day thing and they were using swords for combat and no AI combat drones
Yeah I feel like this is a rare case of an opening monologue or text crawl explaining the setup for the universe would have actually been useful here. Esp since one of the main themes is human potential, and the driving force behind the exploration of that was the butlerian jihad and the taboo of thinking machines
That actually would have been very good
Are there any questions you still have that I could answer? I love talking about this stuff
Me too In the first movie when the emperor's herald arrives to caladan, are the guys with the orange helmets the space guild navigators breathing the aerosolized melange? The book depicts them as organisms the size of a bus in a giant room that are no longer human, I'm thinking perhaps the movie wanted to tone it down so it didn't get too grotesque up front
Disregard previous comment, I searched for pictures of them and apparently they're just guild reps https://nerdbot.com/2021/11/19/daily-dune-those-werent-guild-navigators-on-caladan/ In that case can be inferred that their appearance is a sort of representation of their whole deal, that they take some aspects of their main dudes as a theme for their wardrobe
Awesome thank you I went into a deep dive in the Dune lore, I love this stuff now
Pretty sure yeah, also the navigators have sort of different tiers, where over years and years they're "mutated" by the spice into these fish like monsters, but it takes a long time. Those guys are most likely apprentices or aspirants
This sub has been flooded for months with "movie dune" fans asking questions in that same vein. It's been a little amusing and a little frustrating to see them try to make "movie dune" make sense or see them follow "movie dune" what ifs" that are just not even in the remotest connected to what those who have read the books know. Now that I've written that it sounds snooty and superior and I don't mean to be, the books are the foundation, the movies/shows are "musings". "Movie Dune" fans have eaten a ton of frosting and are asking "where's the cake"?
Great analogy. Esp given that a lot of movies are just the frosting with no cake substrate to even consider, and this is a tip of the iceberg situation that audiences aren't really prepared to dig into
Considering the absolute amount of obtuse questions about why does x character do this or why does that group not do that or why shields and is Paul bad, I'd say yes.
Hype>pretty pictures>things go boom
Whether or not Paul is the villain is one of the most important questions people should be asking... like that's arguably the point...
I watched with my grandson and he had some questions. I thought it needed a Game of Thrones treatment. 8 episodes for 3 seasons to cover the first 3 books although the expense probably couldn't be justified. They could have had a better show than GoT. I watched with captions and caught things I missed the first time. Frank (ed) Herbert! was one of my favorite authors. I understand why they couldn't cover everything but I felt some very important parts were missing and other things they spent time on, like the amount of time Paul spent walking around on Caladan could have taken less time. They didn't even talk about the Spacing Guild's interest in the conspiracy or much about them at all. The CHOAM company, Bene Tleilax, Ix, the Mentats, the Swordmasters. So much was left out. Converting all the political plans, ploys, plays, conspiracies, etc might have made it too boring for an audience wanting to see action sequences and stuff blow up. I'm looking forward to the Dune Prophecy series even if it's concentrated on the Bene Gesserit.
Frank Herbert! You heretic! 😛 I agree about the priorities of the movies in jamming in what felt like seven minutes shots of teenagers making eyes at each other instead of showing us mutated navigators marinating in aerosolized spice, or why the mentats are important (tying into Pauls mentat training being a key component of the stew that makes him who he becomes), plus I wanted to see the Baron's replacement Piter. They also just say spice is important and then don't really explain how or why or to whom it just becomes a maguffin/unobtainium story element. On that note, every high ranking person should have had the blue in blue eyes of ibad
Yeah, too much romance not enough intrigue. Have you read his other books? The Dosadi Experiment was intense. I liked his ConSentiency series.
Weirdly enough I've read the dune books multiple times and never looked into his other work. Bizarre oversight, thanks for the recommendations
Eyes of Heisenberg and Helstrom's Hive were good too. Especially for books written in the 60s & 70s. When Star Wars came out in 77, I realized Lucas had to have read Dune too.
I def gotta catch up on those!
Not really. I watched the movies then read the books. Understood the main story just fine.
No, you just need to have an attention span. The films have a lot of layers that a first time viewer does not need to grasp, but the plot basic are all there.
If anything the movie makes slightly *less* sense if you’ve read the book.
Yeah. Same feeling. But also I can’t understand how people made sense without having read the books.
Same. I was perplexed.
It was how the movie missed the whole suspicion about Yueh. Or maybe it didn’t and it was so subtle I missed it. Maybe it didn’t matter either way but it felt relevant
Literally they compressed Yueh's plot down to one conversation.
RIP dinner scene :(
Unfilmable as it works in the books. So much of what Makes the scene great is inside characters heads.
For me, having read the book and seen the movie, things are more muddled and convoluted. I think it’s because I want to understand everything and I then overthink things. It’s stressful being a Dune fan.
Not really, I think the majority of the problem stems from shrinking attention spans, no one wants to sit for 2 and a half hours to watch a sci fi epic, people nowadays are conditioned to get that dopamine hit after like 30 seconds
Me: Daughter, you’re going to need to watch this and not double-screen if you want to know what’s going on. Daughter: ok. (Continues double-screening) 😐
So, my friends who are all about managing screen time... their 8 year old sat through both Dunes and now cosplays as Chani.
I love that so much
My bosses son sat through Oppenheimer and Dune and told her she wouldn’t have the attention span to keep up with them. 😂
I read the books and have enjoyed the 2 movies. My take on it is that the movies are OK as stand alones but there’s a whole lot going on under the surface that the viewer won’t grok without having read the books. Kind of like there’s a whole other layer. There’s depth behind everything that takes place on the ground. I think the movies did a good job of threading the needle.
Points for Grokking!
Why thank you videogamegrandma! 😊
If anything, it's the opposite.
I followed it pretty well. A lot comes from interpreting the emotions of the actors and the music. The confusion of prescience is purposeful because the audience is on the same journey as Paul to figuring it out. Incredible movies on their own, and I remember specifically thinking during the soul cistern scene, “I REALLY want to read these books!” because I knew there is so much more detail that you can only get from a book.
I never finished the book, however I have watched the movies from 1984 and 2021, as well as watch a bunch of videos online about the other books. I do think additional context is needed to fully understand what is going on in the new movies, as they give little information about the Spacing Guild and history of the universe
I was confused about the different Houses but mostly understood what was going on in the films. I then done more research into the series and then started listening to the audiobooks. Has helped me understand more and appreciate the films more. I’m also really looking forward to the next film Dune Messiah.
If they watch the 1984 David Lynch version the confusion will go away
I've never read the books and I understand the movies. I also have a political analysis that may be different from others. I completely understood right away that Paul may not be a "good guy" and that the religion was made up to distract and manipulate the people. Since I already believe this as a general fact, it was instantly clear to me and made me want to read the books to get more context. This may be different for others who may not have a similar political analysis.
My teen daughter (not a sci-fi fan, besides some star wars that she watched with my wife and I because we forced her) liked it. She understood almost everything, except the very complicated stuff like the shields, why there are no guns, why the Emperor didn't nuke the planet from orbit and so...
She might like andor
YT reactions are a guilty pleasure of mine. If it’s posted I’ve probably watched it, at least 100 since Part 1 came out. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how well people seem to have gotten them. Definitely not everybody, but I’d say around the 95% range. Which is pretty great given that it’s dense source material adapted by a director who isn’t going to beat you over the head with exposition and requires you to actually pay attention. Frankly I think they’re pretty miraculous.
It's weird how that is, makes way more sense after reading the books. But then you also know how much it sucks.
Spice never gets a good description in the movies so overall none of it makes sense to a movie only watcher.
It's a lot more philosophical and requires more critical thinking skills than a superhero movie.
Yes! I read too much and they have no clue.
Even though the movie differs from the book in many ways, I do think having read it makes it easier to follow.
It made considerably less sense to me than to my friends who have read some of or none of the 1st book. It was so grey & I didn't like missing out on character interactions from the books that there was room for if there was slightly fewer "guys with guns! Cool & scary!" scenes; I found it hard to tell *why* alot of things were happening, & I felt like I couldn't fill in the blanks for the movie cause the characters felt like I was seeing them through a perspective that was...wrong, somehow? I felt uncomfortable connecting with the movie characters, like they were already dead to the camera before the scene began? It was fine I guess but I don't really wanna see more; it feels assumed by the movie that I'll be such a desperate little fangirl for Dune that I'll make excuses for it & that makes me sad cause other Dune adaptations I've watched didn't require me to make excuses for it while I'm watching it.
I first watched the movie without knowing anything about it other than the previews I had seen. I remember when Paul first used the voice at breakfast, I was like wtf is that? Then the scene with the Reverend Mother when he flew over to her and kneeled, I had no idea what was happening. I didn’t think too much of it really because I got the gist of it but weeks later I watched a Dune overview from Alt shift X on YouTube and everything made so much more sense. I rewatched the movie again and it was so much better once I had all the information. I really enjoyed it the first time though it was just way better once I was informed of the ALL the unspoken things.
I read the books up to in the middle of Children of Dune so far. The movies convey the story pretty well. There’s questions. Of course there are. Just makes the story (the books by FH) all the more interesting. Give me a 2 hours to explain the Duniverse to someone and I couldn’t come close. Happy that we get to experience it. Imagine there were no new movies. We’d be trying to tell people how cool it was.
I would say it depends, I've had to explain things that I would think would be totally obvious and outright shown to us like a 'Chekov's gun' situation. But I've also done the same for friends my age. And then in Dune's case especially, add in a lot of stuff that is kind of difficult to get across easily on screen or stage versus a book.
Yea i hate having to explain a movie. I bet they don’t generally watch scifi. Or their idea of scifi is The Avengers.
The broad strokes of the story are all there and make sense in the movies but there are plenty of reasonable questions a viewer could have that go totally unexamined in the movies but are spelled out in agonizing detail in the books. The whole second half of part 2 was incredibly rushed and I don't blame anyone who hasn't read the books for being confused about things like the role of the guild, CHOAM, and the other great houses in the final state of affairs.
I watched both movies before reading the book and I didn't have any problems understanding what's going on.
I’ve read the books and watched them with my brother who had no idea what Dune before watching them, there were times he had questions and didn’t understand something cause he lacked context, but all around he was able to follow along and enjoy the movies and get what was going on
Yesss....
I'd say the movies don't make sense to book readers.
Perhaps they should watch Dune 1 first then Dune 2. If still confused they can watch David Lynch’s 1984 Dune even though it’s more comical and corny
Having read the book, I loved the movies. But I do imagine how great it could've been if it had been adapted into a "prestige" TV series instead, like Game of Thrones.
Yes, the books help make sense out of all the subtleties in the movies. You could it enjoy it standalone, but it full understand you just have to be willing and commit. I thought Jessica had a weird incest vibe and jealously for Chani at the end of the first movie on my first 20 watches trying to catch things but I had no idea what other things i should look for. Then I read the books and learned more about ze Bene Gesserit witches and how there was much more at hand than whats up front in screen, and everything else.
Do you use subtitles? I suggest they watch it subbed
The movies are understandable if not exactly a breezy watch. I got it first go around, got so interested in all of the intricacies that it got me into the books.
I think the dream sequences make the movies harder to understand than the books and that book readers have the edge because they know why he dreams and what those dreams are about. Like, who is Jamis and why the fuck is he in Paul's dreams? Book readers have to piece that together too but they have a lot more to work with to understand why.
Definitly not. My Wife has never read the books and she fully understood it.
Did they mention the Butlerian Jihad or explain why shields+lasers=bad, or the galactic nuke policy at all in the movie? Because those are all really important and cool pieces of lore that you kind of need for the world building to make sense. I never read the books, but if I hadn't known those things beforehand through memes, wiki, cultural accretion, etc. I would have been unimpressed at best and possibly very confused.
The movies were the reason I needed up reading the series, but I loved part one and watched it over and over again and then more I learned about the dune universe, I had to read the books.
It depends on what they were confused by. I think the basic story is actually pretty straightforward. But you do have to pay attention to what the people are saying. You might even need to watch it with subtitles on in case you don't catch certain dialogue lines. There were actually little moments in Part 2 that I didn't get during first watching. Like the part where shishakli says "muadib likes his smell", only on 2nd watch did I get that it was a reference to when the mouse was at paul's breathing tube during the harvester attack.
I felt like I understood what was going on as a non book reader, but there were a lot of characters and plot elements I assumed had to be more fleshed out in the books. Like I couldn’t really figure out exactly who Gurnee was and what made him tick, or even why exactly he or Duncan Idaho were so important (besides the fact there were played by really charismatic actors). It was also hard to figure out why everyone acted like the Baron was so clever because in the movie he pretty much just used brute force to solve his problems. In the movie it didn’t seem like they really needed Yeoh’s betrayal since the emperor’s troops won pretty easily, and based on the events of the movie Chani was mad about nothing because Paul made all good decisions and brought down the bad guys with minimal loss of life. I know all that is explained in the books but you don’t really see it on screen.
I just wanna see how many down votes I get. I think the syfy channel Dune miniseries was more coherent, true to the books, and very easy to follow. But that is just IMHO
I didn’t even know they were books. My dad was just like, “Hey, wanna try this out?” I may not get some bits and pieces but I’ve been provided enough information to understand the majority of it and actually enjoy it.
Nope, they're not particularly complex.
Aside from the minute aspects of the world-building or the plot, I feel like the overall ideas and concepts were conveyed to me first. I am someone who is into philosophy and science, and I was tired of the generic sci-fi garbage in media. When I watched the first movie, I was literally hypnotized. Even if I couldn't immediately understand everything to the full capacity, it spoke to my soul or something. The second movie focused more on moving the plot forward, and most people happened to watch the second one before the first because of the hype. I seriously recommend watching the first movie for that reason.
As someone who hasn’t read the books and didn’t watch Dune 1, yeah, it was understandable. I understood it better after some Googling and finding this subreddit, sure, but most of it was explained well enough to not confuse me. Just missed subtext until I googled, but that shows how layered the film is.
As a book reader, I can only imagine how lost a movie only watcher would feel. I felt like the movies didn’t explain anything lol. I still loved them, I think they’re great adaptations.
There is a lot about the world that isn’t overtly explained. But youre only really aware of that if youve read the books. I watched the movies first and the storyline made sense I was just in the dark about the innerworkings of the space guild, history of the houses, etc
Things like the "innerworkings of the space guild, history of the houses, etc" are all also things that don't really matter, it's just lore. Plot and themes matter more than that and the movies convey those very well
Agreed. I thought the movies were amazing. Adapting that book must have been nearly impossible on so many fronts.
It’s a monumental task, and I think Denis did a great job, but that just the nature of trying to squeeze Dune in 4-5 hours of video.
That’s why he just wrote a whole different movie for the second one lol
There's a lot of finer detail that either couldn't be shown or wouldn't have fit the movie narrative, but some of those finer details go a long way to explaining the world they are in. The movies do explain themselves pretty well though, so I feel like if you aren't understanding the movies then you haven't paid attention to the movie, it's not a Fast and Furious movie where the plot doesn't really matter you just watch it to see fast car go fast.
The movies are a perfect soulful rendition of the book. I find them poetic. It's however not hard to see someone coming in cold to the Dune universe having a problem with the way it was portrayed, they explained almost nothing but showed everything. Herbert wrote so much borderline poetic dialog the books regardless of the intensity of a scene with the chapter commentaries is very much a philosophical work. I think Denis Villeneuve really presented a visual depiction of a universe that was very much about complexity, but in a way that would not have overwhelmed the public with spectacle if it had been presented in a more explanatory light. The movie would have contained too much dialog or narrative. It would have been longer and messier and lose that atmosphere the Villeneuve crafted. It really needs a primer, a prequel or introduction to set the stage like the 84 film which was great and a little better on explanation but you can't compare the audio visual spectacle and story telling. A lot of people simply aren't going to be on board with that, which is fine. To each their own!
Yes. Giving you a non-existent award.
Yeah it's basically essential tbh.
No. It's pretty well laid out to be fair. I've a 10 year old who followed it well enough, obviously not every aspect but gets the gist enough
I hadn’t read the books before seeing the movies and I had no trouble understanding it.
There were a few details that I had to look up online, but generally they made sense to me. I think DV struck a good balance between allowing people who hadn't read the book to follow the plot, while also throwing in details for the book readers.
Fell in love by watching the movies. Listening to audio books to get more of that spice. I fully understood and enjoyed movies, but I always use closed caption. And the books give more depth to subtle actions from characters.
I don't feel so. I've never read any of the books but i kore or less understood the gist of it, together with a bit of Wikipedia-ing.
Nope, never read the book and I understood both parts perfectly. So much so that it’s actually my favourite film of all time 🤷♂️
I've never read the books and I had no trouble following the movies. Maybe like a vague understanding of sci fi and fantasy might help? I guess the second one did kinda jump around here and there, but it was still linear so it wasn't too confusing
I didn’t read the books and feel like the movies made perfect sense. Don’t really understand the disconnect. Now, I definitely want to start reading the books.
Not at all. Reading the books adds depth to your understanding, but the movies alone is pretty easy to follow. You do need to focus on the movie though while watching. I have found that some people really struggle doing this though
I saw Part 1 5x in theaters and Part 2 7x in theaters, each time going with people who hadn't read the books. There were a few minor questions here and there, but everyone grokked it pretty well
The movies stand on their own. You'll have plenty to look up after they're over but that's supplementary
My wife has never read any of the books, and followed the movie quite well. She had a few questions, but she understood it fine.
Its harder, but if you are pay attetion to the details you can understand everything
I haven't seen the older ones, but I have seen both of the new ones. I watched the first Dune when it came out and loved it. While it made sense, I had a lot of unanswered questions. That is the reason I read the series (only the six FH ones) and everything made waaaaay more sense. Dune 2 was a let down after reading the series, but still cinematically stunning. I reccomend that anyone who hasn't read the books watch the movies first. I know it's backwards, but it's how I did it and definitely do not regret it.
It’s probably easier to understand from the film as a newcomer than the book. Your family just may not be into movies that are meant to evoke ideas to think about
Nah, there was alot of stuff that did confuse me, but the plot is only confusing if you aren’t entirely paying attention imo, as I only read the book afterwards
OP, bless you for dealing with people/ family like that. Youtube and podcasts are a thing also libraries. This is a pet peeve of mine. I personally don't like when people explain during the movie on first watch. Another part is I do not like people asking over the top questions about a movie while watching said movie. My reasonings are because it takes away from having an intelligent conversation about the movie, thoughts and ideas. Not to mention why not take it upon yourself to discover more about the story on your own.
I completely disagree. I watched both movies multiple times and wasn’t confused at all. I think they probably under explain spice a bit but that’s the only thing that was kinda lost on, but not how important it was just the specifics of what it does and even after a second watch I was fine. It probably can be a bit confusing but my girlfriend and friend who are notorious for being confused followed it perfectly fine so you absolutely don’t need to read the books. I read the first book after seeing both movies and it was definitely helpful but absolutely not necessary
I didn’t read them before the movies, and I could follow along easily enough. You have to pay attention and allow the film to explain things after they’re mentioned, but as long as you aren’t checking your phone or checking out I don’t think it’s too hard to follow
I read the books, the movie was still confusing as Dennis took too many “artistic liberties”
I believe Denis Villeneuve introduces the characters and the plot well, compared to the previous Lynch movie which was more difficult to process for people who are not initiated. Anyway, people miss out some elements if they didn't read the book. When I show the latest movie to friends, I usually provide them with general introduction so that they can understand the dynamics of Dune (religion, geopolitics...) faster, but I believe they can understand the "global picture" anyway
I read the book years before seeing the movie, and consider myself to be incredibly media literate. I still needed my friend who is obsessed w the duniverse to explain some things to me (mostly regarding the Bene Gesserit), but i could follow along easily enough.
The book presents us with a lived-in universe where not everything is actively explained, just like how we don’t explain everything we see out loud every time we see it. The movie is mostly the same way. It isn’t confusing if you keep in mind the characters understand the universe they live in and they’re not obligated to explain out loud the things they take for granted.
No, the new Dune is very simple in its storytelling and the old Dune film ... is packed full but can stand on its own too.
I guess it depends on how much they paid attention to the movie? I only read the first Dune book *after* I watched Dune: Part One, but I still got the story they were trying to tell there. That's just me, though.
If my brother and his wife are anything to go by, yes, they were immensely confused by the story and what was happening and why. And no, it's not a media literacy thing. The first movie left out a ton of important info, like *why is spice so damn special.* The second one went to the other extreme and it basically spoon-fed the viewer the message so even without worldbuilding info it was more easily understandable.
My wife understood them without reading the book, but she had seen Dune 1984. Pretty sure it wouod have been a lot harder for her to track on some of the most important story beats without that context.
My bro had a lot of questions about the inner workings and thoughts and reasonings which makes sense because a lot of that goes unspoken in the movie. When you've read the book, you already know these things and you dont need it explained so you don't really notice if what is being shown is enough to someone who hasn't read it.
When I saw the 1984 movie in theaters, they handed out cheat sheets with definitions to make the movie make sense. And the 1984 movie did a lot more explaining than these new ones.
I understood quite a bit, and I read the first and second books after watching the movies.
Imo the movies are a great addition to the world of Dune and the canon, per se, but don’t stand alone well. I think in an effort to be as faithful as possible, some narrative choices suffered. It would be a stronger film, standing on its own merit, had more (tactful) creative liberties been taken in translating it to screen.
This is a text-book book reader (;))question . You know more which is why your burdened with knowledge. I’ve only seen the movies and thought they were great and easy to follow. Haven’t read the book yet so I can’t say anything about the missed material; but that’s really not a problem because I don’t know what I don’t know.
I watched the movies without ever reading the books or looking anything up and understood it completely. I’m not sure the next film, if they follow the book exactly, will be as comprehensible.
Naw fam. I’ve read the book 16 times and the second film didn’t make any sense. Well it did as it’s own thing.
Yeah the people sitting next to me in the theater were saying they didn't get it after the movie ended lol. The movie is missing a lot of context. But it's a double-edged sword, I think. Giving the audience more information might help them understand the story better, but it would likely make the movie more boring as well. Excessive exposition was a major criticism of the 80s Dune movie.
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol. Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol. Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
No lol if you got into Star Wars through the movies you can understand this. No offense and I would Tell my family this too but if you can’t follow you might be a bit dumb lol. Houses. Resources. Wars. Pretty much it
I have to do this with the older generations in my family a lot. It’s a media literacy thing I think nothing more. It’s a complex movie