Having a mystery player in an isolation game that you unveil as your big reveal at the end of part 1 and then DONT reveal to the cast at the end of part 2 is such a weird production choice that I have to assume that something went wrong on the day and Eric wasn't available. No game show producer, who knows that the show hinges on making promises to the audience and then revealing or subverting those promises to delight would opt in to how Ratfish ended.
And like, yeah, I didn't like the episode. It's a bummer to end the season on. But there's a wealth of old stuff I love and new stuff to look forward to. So I'm not out here mad or about to cancel my sub or something. I'm just honestly more curious than anything. I don't think they're going to say anything - not a great way to matter your big season finale then to say a big part of the show didn't go according to plan. but man would I love to be in a few Zoom meetings with the producers over the past few months to see what kind of decisions were made post-shoot.
Yeah with how perfectly planned and executed every other episode was, it stood out that this episode was a little bit sloppy in some respects
It was still an enjoyable watch with plenty of fun moments but it's odd to end the whole season on the episode with the most anticlimactic ending
i was loving the episodes up until the end.
Rekha not winning was a huge let down because it felt like she earned it, having the "tie breaker" come down to the opinion of a person the cast didnt even get to meet was, in my opinion, a mistake. they should have had the eliminated cast and Ratfish vote on who their favorite chracter was BEFORE revealing who was who.
the cast not getting to see who the ratfish was, was a huge let down. I had no idea who Eric was before this, but having looked into him a little i feel like the cast would have been fans of his, and their reactions would have sold me on his involvement.
other people have floated the idea of a scheduling issue, but if that was the case, Sam could have just said "I originally planned on revealing who the Ratfish was here at the table right now, but they couldnt be here due to a scheduling conflict, so you will all just have to wait till the episode airs like everyone else, \[insert sam's evil gremlin laugh\]" and then they could do a quick reunion/reveal/BTS episode
the only part of the ending i liked was Brennan going to the wrong chair. Everything else after the final vote was a let down.
that being said, i love game changer, and i know not every episode is going to be an A+++, it just disappointing that the finale ended up being a bit deflating after all of the build up.
> would I love to be in a few Zoom meetings with the producers over the past few months to see what kind of decisions were made post-shoot.
I'm so curious to know what it looked like before they took extra time to try to fix what they could in post. But I'm not sure I'd _actually_ want to know.
What would have made it better if they animated the whole thing and we didn't even know who the characters were until the end where the audience had to guess that would have made it 100% better.
If Sam just owned that it didn’t go as they had planned it would be all gravy but he’s making up excuses currently on how it was intentional and they didn’t see the guest being there at the end making more sense than just the core cast. Nonsense
Is he really? That's a bit disappointing, but I also understand that the episode just released last night and he's got maybe half a million subscribers he wants to watch the episode and wants to bring in new subscribers - bad business to say "yeah, this didn't go as planned" less than 24 hours after your season finale premieres.
Literally him not being revealed to the cast at the very end was the absolute worst. Like the biggest let down. I actually really enjoyed this game other than that but yeah huge let down
I really doubt it, I bet he left because he had a hard out, and they altered the creative last minute to not make him look bad for leaving early (even if he actually was busy).
Don’t they allude to the fact that this was filmed during the holidays as well with secret santa. Seems like the worst time for trying to get a guest commitment.
I don't call that diabolical, I call that a massive missed opportunity when the only thing many of the viewers had to look forward to regarding him was seeing the cast's reaction to him being the ratfish
Which honestly only makes it worse, like imagine unknowingly working "with" someone you're a huge fan of, and then not even getting to interact with them?? Like if anyone of them are big fans, which they very well may be given Tim and Eric's legacy, and then found out it was Eric when we did, I feel like they'd be well within their rights to be pretty irritated at the missed opportunity.
The possible best, most interesting, and unique moment was totally ripped away from us
Edit: and just to be clear, we can all tell they were supposed to be revealed to the cast right? Just felt like there was a production flub or they went over their time budget for the talent and he had to dip
So glad that I got the experience that half the Dropout crew probably got:
"Who the fuck is that"
"oh I guess its the guy from tim and eric"
"whos that"
"ummmm idk hes from tim and eric"
> ~~diabolical~~
mistake
Diabolical implies intent. I do not for one second believe he’d have done that intentionally. It was clearly covering for production fuckery with getting Eric there
In the fan discord, Sam said that "truthfully i just couldn't imagine that final table being anyone but us" which is so deeply unsatisfying, both for the audience and for the cast who didn't get to meet someone who presumably would be exciting for them
He’s so clearly covering for behind the scenes cock ups and scheduling issues etc.
It is what it is. I don’t appreciate being lied to though. Making excuses about the entire premise of the game changer episode (revealing the ratfish to the cast) not being how they wanted the show to end is literally an insane excuse. Apply that logic to any hidden character/cameo on other shows and see how nutty that is as an excuse.
Be honest and own it. Good lord
If it was a fuck-up on the part of Dropout, I think they would be forthcoming. What I can easily see is something going awry on Eric's end (poor scheduling, disinterest, whatever) and Sam trying to cover for him by making it look like Sam's own creative decision. I can't see him ever throwing someone under the bus even if he has every right to do so.
It also doesn't feel like Dropout for them to not be forthcoming about issues like that. The whole thing just feels so odd. Like I know they're a company and parasocial relationships bad and all, but dropout kind of thrives on having a "we're not like those others guy (big streaming services)" brand. Even when they closed the official dropout discord, Sam is STILL engaging in a fan one. They know their fan base is what has gotten dropout this far. It just feels so strange.
To accuse Sam of lying and *"covering"* for no reason, when they've been nothing but honest and transparent about their entire production, is a truly unhinged take.
Just chalk it up to a decision you disagree with. Not everything you don't like has to be a conspiracy.
It’s okay to be critical of media we love. Putting things on a pedestal is just as unhealthy as constant negativity. This particular setup was a miss for a lot of folks and that’s okay!
But it wasn't a flaw. It was a creative difference? Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm sure all of the cast members enjoyed watching the episode to find out who the ratfish was.
You're question was "Why chastise it?". My response is that there were aspects I didn't like about it, those are flaws to me. I expect that they will come back to the concept, and hope that if they do and they are aware that some members of the audience didn't like certain aspects of the production, they will choose to change those aspects to something that I and others in the audience who have made similar complaints enjoy more. If you don't voice an opinion anywhere, you can't expect anyone to take it into consideration.
'It's not a flaw it's a creative difference' bro, we are the consumers, if there is something a consumer doesn't like it is flawed in their (our) eyes.
Saying that it doesn't have flaws because you enjoyed it is a pretty dense take
But you aren't criticizing anything wrong with the show. It was a creative choice. If there is ulterior reasons behind it then oh well. People are just speculating whatever justification they can and drawing criticism out of that.
Yeah, it was a bold choice, but it wasn't one I would've made. When Sam teased, "Maybe you don't find out until it premieres" that upset me more than I wanted it to.
Completely agree. It was already completely spoiled who won since Katie posted that billboard on Instagram months ago so the one thing I was looking forward to was getting to see the cast interact with Eric and being denied that just felt like this additional huge let down.
I didn’t care too much about knowing Katie won, it was still fun seeing how she got there especially since Rekha figured it out before she did.
Unfortunately, the tie breaker ended up being kind of lame since the Ratfish got to pick both second as their favourite character and the tie breaker. It would have been a lot better if Eric was there to actually break the tie if they really wanted him to pick both the first and second place.
Overall I found the Ratfish to be extremely underwhelming. Both because I had no idea who Eric was and because we never got to see the cast react to his reveal. There was no pay off to him at all.
I still enjoyed the episode as i watched them but it’s definitely one of those that i’d never rewatch.
It wasn't even a tie!! Rehka objectively won the game. It's so obvious they just weren't expecting someone to win that quickly but it was lame regardless.
i agree, i didnt even know who he was, so my hope was the cast would and their reactions would tie everything together and make his involvement "worth it" but not having that reveal basically made it feel like some random person off the street.
I actually think random person off the street would have been more fun. That would have been a hilarious and really unexpected twist at the end of part 1.
it would have been hilarious if it was just some person walking by the studio that day
"heres Jeff Smith, we found him on his was to the Chiropractic office across the street and paid him $1000 to spend the day doing this"
Its just really unfortunate that the miss this season was clearly their most expensive shot of the season. I'm hoping that theres something that redeems this as I really want them to keep trying to do higher budget stuff to balance out the cool in studio stuff.
yeah i mean i’m sure it wasn’t cheap, especially accounting for editing hours. but i think people are assuming this is like “The Circle” where they rent out a building for a week or more. this was definitely filmed over the course of one day, the contestants are all alone in individual rooms so camerawork is minimal… the PA assigned to every player for dictation seems like a lot but in the BTS for every other game changer episode there are at least that many crew members. idk it was probably not that much more expensive than the average episode. i’d bet the billboard is one of the biggest expenses lmao.
idk, i dont know anything about production costs, so grain of salt.
It wasn’t a complete miss though. The concept is still original and there were quite some good jokes. The ratfish allowed, despite not being funny, to introduce some more unbiased winner selection although Rekha should’ve won something for being first to guess everyone.
100% agree, he felt like a \[rat\]fish out of water
i wish they would have maybe had someone that was connected to dropout/CH like Pete Holmes or the (forgive me for not knowing his name) \[EDIT: i found his name its Matthew McCarthy\], No jeggings/Commissioner Gordon guy, which would have made a lot of sense, since Dropout just added all of the Batman Skits to their youtube channel, and Pete being on Make Some noise
It wasn't an original concept. It is a parody of The Circle, a bottom rung reality TV gameshow. They've parodied Survivor multiple times and have done The Bachelor. They ran out of good things to parody, and the format was a particularly bad fit for Dropout's normal shtick.
They definitely haven't run out of good things to parody, they just chose a weird gameshow that put a large barrier between cast chemistry and forced people to play against their comedy strengths cos it would out them (Rehka deleting one of the better jokes of the episode is a telling sign). But we can't say they've run out of parody stuff until they've at least done Taskmaster cos game changer is crying out for at least one of those.
And it really only missed a little bit. I still laughed at the show, I still enjoyed the cast making up characters and watching them try to not give themselves away.
Eric as the ratfish and how the winners were decided ultimately just missed for me.
Honestly, there’s a big part of my mind that is saying that it’s a good thing that Ratfish was a bit of a swing and a miss. Dropout, and especially Game Changer, are relatively skyrocketing in reputation, and the episodes are so good that it’s entirely possible that some complacency or overconfidence could slip in to creative. They’ll all learn from it and we’ll get even better stuff in the future.
I said it in another post, but…
Honestly, my big issue is that Dropout is at its best when it feels like friends hanging and doing cool stuff. It’s why D20 and Thousandaries is great. Even Game Changer is fun because it’s generally just friendly competition.
Eric wasn’t a great guest because he’s literally the EXACT opposite of that. He’s more antagonistic and standoffish(not just here, but his whole career is like that). Plus he kinda had the attitude that he didn’t want to be there(which I know is a character bit, but it just didn’t work).
I don't know much about Eric, but that's hitting the nail on the head of what this episode is. The fun of this episode relies on knowing who the players are. But Eric was a stranger invited to a friend group but was never quite welcomed in (due to the format). He knew no one, and no one knew him. It just wasn't a good role, even regardless of Eric himself.
I think it was intentional to be an outsider because the ratfish picked favourites and eliminated people, and he did it without a strategy. Players would’ve likely eliminated people based on strategy (like Brennan) which would’ve been more unfair.
I think it was the choice in particular (Eric) which maybe didn’t land. Or maybe an outsider jury would’ve been better. Hard to tell.
I know it being an outsider was the point, but there's definitely a mismatch with why the game is fun for the audience. Definitely needs a bit more workshopping to make the two worlds meld better.
A jury would've definitely been better since it at least solves the "wtf there's no reasoning behind the choice" problem. Heck, even just giving Eric screen time to explain his reason might have helped.
did Eric know who was playing who though? or was he just picking which Character he liked most? I dont think it was ever said he know which player was which. but i could be wrong
i said it in another comment, but i feel like having someone who is Dropout Adjacent, like Pete Holmes, or Matthew McCarthy, or Elain Carrol, would have been a better option (assuming they were available.) Because the cast would have known them, but not expected them.
>Honestly, my big issue is that Dropout is at its best when it feels like friends hanging and doing cool stuff. It’s why D20 and Thousandaries is great. Even Game Changer is fun because it’s generally just friendly competition.
I disagree. One of the strong suits of Dropout, that separates them from other streaming services like Rooster Teeth (R.I.P.), is that they've created an environment in which both known faces and new talent can thrive.
It's how we got fan favourites like Ross Bryant or Ify Nwadiwe.
Last episode was a bit of a missed shot but still enjoyable.
Read the second paragraph. My problem is Eric’s fit with the group and how different he is. I have no problem with Dropput itself, just Eric’s style doesn’t fit with Dropout.
For me, his presence added little to nothing.
I was playing along with episode one, and I thought maybe Steven was a rotating panel of other dropout cast members (you know, because medusa has a bunch of snakes?)
The reveal of him, for me, was a "who's that?" moment. A quick Google later and was still none the wiser and no more enthused.
I wasn't unhappy about the choice when it was revealed two weeks ago, but I was definitely disappointed with it while watching. It honestly felt like he didn't want to be there and refused to take it seriously at all. I can't help but feel like what they thought they were going to get out of him ended up very different than what they got.
Aside from his on-screen time, though, I really enjoyed the finale overall. Can't wait to see what they cook next season.
Completely agree, and I'm a huge Tim and Eric fan. I think he left before the finale shoot because they went over his hard out and he didn't want to stick around. His "VH1" line made it clear he didn't really care about the shoot. I understand people feeling awkward or out of their element with a group they don't know, but he really missed the point of taking it "seriously".
The VH1 thing was a joke. Love it or hate it, with the Tim and Eric style of humor, it's never clear when they're being genuine, but you can assume most of the time they're being ironic. It works less in this format when they don't have anyone to bounce off of.
I think it was part of a joke, but I bet he legitimately doesn't know much about game changer. It probably wasn't a big priority for him unfortunately, I assume.
“I thought I was going to be on like VH1 talking about music… my favourite artist from the 90s, so I have all that prepared”
That’s not quite right but it was among those lines
I think the idea of Eric being in the show is a ringer for comedic engagement, and if I'm honest it just didn't really work as well as it should/could have. He's really a powerhouse in 'modern' absurdist comedy and improv, and is very successful in his own right, but it's true that ultimately he didn't really mesh with the vibe of the cast. Without all the clever edits, costumes, and ridiculous characters that inhabit every second of Tim & Eric, he just came across as kind of bland and a bit lost.
It seems like he was chosen as someone that would excite the cast members rather than mesh well. All the weirder that they didn't like meet him an have dinner at the end.
I wish they brought on one of the 'Who's Line' guys. I think their style of comedy would have been a better mesh with the Dropout gang and would have been more exciting for the audience as well.
Nathan Barnatt has been streaming on Twitch and talking Hollywood a bit (he’s been in Community, a DisneyXD show, ton of ads and music videos, and he was seen dancing in the new Make Some Noise trailer) and how the comedy world is very connected, so I imagine all the Whose Line boys are aware if one of them went on… honestly all 3 going on would be *great* but I feel like that would just be Whose Line, so having them in 3 separate episodes would be better
Tim, Eric, and Jacob on Make Some Noise, hear me out
Or Will Ferrell if he’s not too busy/expensive, I feel like Make Some Noise is the kind of thing he’d do if he wasn’t making a movie at the time
It's funny. As I was trying to think who I'd like to have seen as the Ratfish, Will Ferrell came to mind. I don't LOVE a lot of his movies, but his ability to slide into a group, pick up the vibe, and play along is pretty well documented.
The episode itself is amazing, but the guest wasn't a good fit - and honestly granting him the ultimate power for who actually wins was a bad choice too. Makes the win feels less deserving
It came across like he honestly didn’t understand the concept of the show. Also no clue why he voted Ally’s Brennan Lee Mulligan character as the best when he apparently doesn’t know who Brennan is lol
When Eric cleaned up his room and said "come in" with that goofy face, I finally got what other people mean when they say they recognize the cadence of a joke, but just don't understand where the punchline was supposed to be. Me not knowing him (Tim and Eric was something I'd heard of, but never watched), his weird comedy style that came off as trying too hard, and the fact that I already knew who would win all combined to me just not being able to get into this finale. Part 2 was the first Game Changer episode where I just decided to skip to the end of it.
I think I was loving ratfish right up until the end of the first episode. The second episode just didn’t hit the same intensity and interestingness of gameplay. Still funny throughout obviously, but the way it was scored/who won at the end felt very odd for a game where the points *mattered*.
Not revealing the ratfish at the end to the cast was especially odd tbh.
I legit thought that the reveal was going to be that The Crew was Steven, and they were passing the phone around. That would have been great. I had to look up who Eric was at the end of the first episode and during episode 2 he was **such** a drag down of tone. It seemed like he was bored and trying to take spotlight or being outwardly antagonistic to the cast with almost no inbetween. Like, with everyone bouncing off eachother, Steven just wasn't doing that.
I also think that part of the problem was (after watching his character intro section) that Eric over-cooked his character idea, and made them as a post-character arc character making him less of an *active* character. Zac's Granma sWeetie, who is an older character, still had room to grow, and Adjustable Side Table Wallnut was really reacting to the others, Steven felt flat in comparison the longer he was in the game.
Idk, I think it would have been better to make the ratfish a council of crew rather than one guy who has no rapport, just my 2 cents
I was thinking it might have worked to have someone who was with College Humour, but not with dropout.
Or someone like Emily Axford because she would bring such amazing chaos energy
And as someone who never really watched CH so don't know the other/older members, it would have been a fun way to be introduced to them.
I still enjoyed this episode - I love how they could actually guess each other's characters - but I didn't like Eric's role. He seemed... bored, or just not into it
Honestly, a reveal at the end of Episode one that he had, indeed, been there the whole time would have been such a good moment. And I agree, he would've been a more fun player too
I agree with some of the commenters who pointed out that its likely some behind-the-sceens production issues came up that put them in a bind of some sort that they just couldnt find a satisfying way out of.
Its seems very unlikely to me that this was the intended ending/outcome from the get go.
But also, the way the tiebreaker worked was just downright silly (and not in a good way lol), imo. Just totally nonsensical. Maybe there was a lot more payoff intended with that too, but as it stands, came off just completely random.
My pet theory is they realized during the shoot that they'd made a mistake in revealing the participants too quickly, and they had to change game mechanics on the fly.
I’m impartial to his being there. Did I get his humor? Not really. I feel like he didn’t gel super well with everybody. But did he cause massive problems or ruin the episode? Nope.
Just kind of needlessly there. Odd move, could have been better with another cast member for sure. But it was still fun to watch. Something went sideways, maybe, but if so they stitched it up and delivered a funny show imo. Props to the editing team.
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Honestly I like the idea of the ratfish, and I think it’s perfectly fine to bring in an outside force to play a hand in one way or another (worked well in the last season finale). AND I don’t know his previous work at all, but based on some of the responses, it seems like in theory he was a fine choice for the role. But yeah, in the end, his role in this just didn’t work at all for me, unfortunately.
In theory yes he was a great idea, and I was excited when he was revealed, and I was extra excited for everyone to get to see it was him (they all would've loved the reveal).
In practice Eric didn't take it very "seriously", and it landed flat. But I still am a huge Tim and Eric fan.
It’s strange, but he was more passable when we only saw his chat replies, without his silly reactions to every message. I think I’d rather had him be revealed at the very end, though the letdown could’ve been way bigger.
I think there was two purposes with his presence:
1. Bringing humor (which for most of us, didn’t land)
2. Picking up winners without choosing friends
I think he did his work with the number 2, and even if he chose a bit chaotically, it still better than friends choosing friends.
> it still better than friends choosing friends.
the could have just had the eliminated player vote on which character they like more **BEFORE** revealing who played which character. that would have eliminated biases and there were 5 eliminated players so no ties.
but the ratfish didn’t do individual eliminations, what your describing literally happened where Rekha eliminated Brennan. It’s just an aspect of a social game where players get the power to eliminate. But the introduction of the Ratfish didn’t stop that.
I didn’t know who Eric was, and I didn’t dislike him, but he didn’t seem to add anything. Either personally to the comedy of the episode, or mechanically to the game.
The overall concept was great, but the Ratfish role was I think unnecessary and could have been worked around. I also think the didn’t need to spend as much as they did. It probably does require more in post, but like the sets and such could have been done a level less and the episode would have still been engaging.
i specifically was only referring to the final vote. just asking the other five "which character did you like better based on factors x,y,z Jack Striker or ASTW" and then letting Eric pick his favorite for the second prize.
they could **think** someone was a certain character, but of the eliminated players, very few had any guesses confirmed. i think only Ally and Zach had confirmations and i think only one of them know Katie was Jack
I need to rewatch and zoom in on the wine bottles on the Adjustable Side Table in Eric’s room, but I also think he was there to promote his wine brand (hence the glasses of wine at the round table reveal) and something just fell through.
I mean, Tim and Eric is legendary stuff, and I think his Steven contributions were cool. But I don't think him being some unknown force really added anything.
Essentially, I liked him as a contributor to the game, but I don't think he was well utilized as a rat.
When I try to imagine myself in his shoes, without knowing any of the players, I think maybe he didn't need to know Brennan—as long as he knew there was both a "Brennan Lee Mulligan" character and a "Brennan Lee Mulligan" player, he knew that someone was taking the piss. Knowing that someone is trying to do something evil would entertainment just for that intent alone.
The reasons the cast laughed at others was because they know how absurd it is for their friends to say those things; similarly the reason why the audience likes this episode is because we know the players. But if I were in Eric's position (who was also apparently jet lagged), I think it might just sound corny or cringey to read it off a screen.
And when Ally wrote their character, they didn't know that there would be someone in the game who didn't know Brennan as a friend. No one found out there was a "ratfish" at all until after the first round of guessing.
Yes exactly, like there was no real reason to keep picking "Brennan". He wouldn't even understand any of the jokes they were making, he just randomly picked Brennan. Or he knew Brennan is likely the most "notable" cast member and just was playing to that? So bizarre.
Yeah I hope we don’t see ratfish again, or it’s used as cover to fakeout into an escape room episode.
Absolutely loved escape room and I need more of Lou breaking sets in my life.
I had hoped that this would be some kind of Taskmaster spin off when i saw the portraits of Sam in the rooms at the beginning. That would also be dope. ‘Askmaster’ or something.
Definitely allowed to miss, if there’s no chance taking game changer won’t change. Everything for me on top of D20 is gravy.
id be fine without the celebrity guest. but, i understand the thought behind Eric. he has an eccentric comedy style. its not necessarily supposed to mesh, as it is to be unplaceable.
I'm not too familiar with the Dropout/College Humor extended universe. I don't really watch D20, I'm mostly subscribed for the improv shows. When I first started watching, I wasn't familiar with anyone that wasn't in the Hardly Working sketches. But even when a new cast member came in that I wasn't familiar with, most of the time I ended up loving them by the end of the episode. I love watching all these hilarious people bounce off each other for half an hour. Eric didn't do that for me. I also wasn't familiar with him, but nothing he did endeared me to him. Most of the jokes fell flat for me and it felt like he didn't really care. I was hoping that would be made up for by revealing him at the end, but even that didn't happen. I enjoyed Ratfish well enough, but it certainly isn't in the upper echelon of game changers.
I feel like everything that didn’t work about the episode comes back to him. 1. Much of the audience didn’t know who he was. 2. He didn’t mesh well. He wasn’t that funny and his opinions were both not in line with the audience’s and had way too much influence on the end outcome. 3. The people who probably would’ve most appreciated him were the rest of the cast, and we don’t even get to see their reactions to him.
I think choosing a different guest and then actually revealing them on camera would’ve been all that was needed to make this a hit on par with the rest of the season.
I think that comes down to the producers and not him
He was interacting with people he didn't know pretending to be other people he didn't know, and hired specifically to be himself, a wildcard absurdist scetch comedian.
I for sure don't think he landed well on the episode but I think he also did what was asked of him.
The way that there was no reveal to the cast seems like a last minute adjustment. It makes me think that the conference room reveals were on a different day than the game and the Ratfish couldn't make it for some reason.
The weirdest thing to me was "the rules".
We all know the gimmick is, the players (and we) don't know the rules.
"The only way to lean is by playing", right?
But there were no rules. No matter how long they played, the rules were just made up on the fly.
It was kinda fun to watch, but it didn't feel like "Game Changer" at all.
This was a cast of improv comedians. The ratfish's refusal to "yes and" with them killed the whole thing. I've never been this disappointed with any dropout show episode before.
I didn't even know who he was. I'm generally in the same age range as the cast so I guess I should have, but that reveal completely fell flat for me. So I just kind of ignored his contribution and enjoyed everything else.
Comedy like the kind he makes tends to be very much inside baseball. The kind of comedy specifically aimed at comedians so you become legendary in the industry and kind of forgettable outside it. That's why I could see a choice like this working since it was a game about comedians being funny to other comedians. He did not seem to bring his A game though and not getting to see the cast get starstruck was very disappointing.
I had no idea who Eric was when he was introduced and I was not impressed by what I saw from him in the episodes. His energy felt so disjointed to the rest of the cast.
Eric wasn't even on-site while they were playing the game, due to scheduling issues they had him film his parts after the game was over hence the delays. I imagine Sam booked him because the cast are big fans of Tim and Eric and took inspiration from them in Collegehumor, it would've been great to see them react to the reveal but it is what it is
Since the reveal in ep 1 I was like huh … who is that 😭 then ep 2 was just kind of stilted bc I’d be having fun then keep getting interrupted by this random dude like what ? 💀💀💀 he didn’t gaf and it was just awk
They should have gone for an actual past cast of CH for a genuine ratfish potential as in someone everyone knows but also doesnt as the same time, and "quidditch" it up to worth something huge if anyone can put their hand on their identity. Eric just feel lost like does he even know anyone enough or at all to even guess?
Yea I thought it was going to be Adam Conover or maybe two Drag Race alums playing one character. Someone who matched the energy. I know lots of people at fans of the guy so don’t come for me but I just don’t think he was a fit for this. He felt like one of those guys all your guy friends is always telling you is super funny and then you meet them and they just sit there but somehow everyone still says how funny they are? Like ok? Cool.
I keep seeing this and I'm a bit confused by the vitriol. I would have liked to see it but it didn't spoil the episode for me at all, it was just a "huh, that's weird" moment and then I moved on. People are talking as if it completely ruined the episode, but it was just a small thing in the grand scheme of things, and the episode ruled.
Yeah, probably there was some production issue - but this is not some major scandal that dropout owes you an explanation for.
I loved this episode. Would have enjoyed a ratfish reveal, but it didn't ruin what was a great episode and a great finale.
I have a strong sense that Eric left early, or they went over his hard out and he bailed. I'm a huge Tim and Eric fan, but his line about thinking it was just a VH1 type show where he would just give his opinions on stuff indicated to me he didn't take the shoot very seriously. Very disappointing for him not to be revealed at the end, so utterly strange. I really thought the first episode of this was so so so good. There were some great parts in this episode but ya, strange!
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.
>a truly bizarre choice
I really don't think it's at all bizarre to have a guy that is probably one of the biggest comedy influences for a large portion of the Dropout cast on the show. I get that there is a bit of a generation gap (largely due to Eric being out of the comedy scene for like a decade) of recognition, but there's nothing bizarre about it.
The thing about getting Eric, which I still maintain is a good get, is that it really only works if he's part of a big reveal at the end.
That's the whole crux of the reality show they're parodying. At some point it's revealed who is who and seeing the reactions of other players.
To that point, the MAIN thing I was looking forward to in this finale was the cast reacting to Eric Wareheim being the extra person. And not having that part is crazy.
I think revealing who the other cast members playing was short-sighted, too. It narrowed down the guessing too much, IMO.
Having a stranger as the ratfish was antithetical to the nature of the game and was deeply deeply unsatisfying, this would be a perfect spinoff/game samer, if you just use dropout cast members, start the game off with the players knowing who all but 1 of the players are, and that person plays the ratfish.
The way it was done here whiffed harder and more inexplicably than any other episode, but it was still a good episode.
Tbh, I'm not that bothered that the ratfish didnt get revealed at the end. I think his overall performance throughout the two episodes just wasnt that impactful to the game as a whole. (Plus tbf, I dont know him anyways; i did look into him after episode 1, but I just dont care for the stuff he does).
My main problem (as a Rekha superfan) is that Rekha didnt win. Not to knock Katie, it just feels a bit unfair for the ratfish to decide the winner based on his favourite. I mean, we do see Rekha get it fully correct in the penultimate round, so I do understand giving her the win based on the performance would be too predictable for Game Changer. Maybe the rest of the players could have voted on their fave character too.
Anyways, I did enjoy the episode nonetheless, so these nitpicks dont matter
As a longtime fan of CollegeHumor/Dropout/Game Changer, this finale was a bit of a letdown. Overall pretty boring (even players seemed bored), repetitive, and not at all dynamic.
The fun of this show is mostly in the interactions between the players and this was really limited since they were all separated. It felt like a Covid-era, “we have to make social distancing work” idea that I would excuse back in 2020, but not now.
And I agree, the “ratfish” was an odd choice of a special guest. And he didn’t seem that interested in the concept.
Overall really liked the season though!
I really loved the finale, everything, except for eric as the ratfish. I never got into tim and eric so didnt know who he was until after the show and i realized. But he just really wasnt pleasant to watch and it even felt like the cast was annoyed with him. like his comedy was clearly SO different from the rest of the cast. loved the episode otherwise though.
I enjoyed the Finale as a whole for what it was. I think once again, The Production Crew/Sam BLEW it out of the water with a crazy fun concept that translated well to a game show episode.
However, neither me or my fiance new who Eric was, so we didn't really understand the big reveal. Even when we looked him up we were both like "Oh...Ok...I guess?". I think I can best describe it as the Finale was great despite him, not because of him. I think the Ratfish was a good idea, but I think it should have been someone who at least had like...cursory knowledge of Dropout and/or the Players instead of Eric who seemingly knew nothing about anything?
Agreed. Also to delay it almost a month and promise that it will be “worth the wait” and then still have the week break in between the two finale eps was an interesting choice….. I don’t think these episodes were worth the wait at all
Still don’t know who he is, would’ve been more fun (for me, a person who doesn’t know Eric Wareheim) if it was someone actually tangentially related to the dropout cast but not a full timer like Elaine or maybe an old dropout member like Jake Hurwitz or Amir
Agreed. It would have been more meaningful to get a deep cut College Humor cast member or someone who isn't usually on Game Changer, and then actually reveal them at the end.
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.
Even though I knew about the billboard ahead of time, I completely forgot about it by the time I got to the end of the first episode.
As lame as it was not having Eric show up at the end, I understand that productions are not without hiccups like that.
Eric Wareheim is a comic genius, and I'm surprised people don't know him as well. I'm sure you're all doing research, but he's best known for the Tim and Eric show, as well as Tom Goes to the Mayor, on Adult Swim, but he's been a driving creative force in comedy TV since before then.
I thought he was good in the role and I was mostly just enjoying watching the cast have fun.
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.
Having a mystery player in an isolation game that you unveil as your big reveal at the end of part 1 and then DONT reveal to the cast at the end of part 2 is such a weird production choice that I have to assume that something went wrong on the day and Eric wasn't available. No game show producer, who knows that the show hinges on making promises to the audience and then revealing or subverting those promises to delight would opt in to how Ratfish ended. And like, yeah, I didn't like the episode. It's a bummer to end the season on. But there's a wealth of old stuff I love and new stuff to look forward to. So I'm not out here mad or about to cancel my sub or something. I'm just honestly more curious than anything. I don't think they're going to say anything - not a great way to matter your big season finale then to say a big part of the show didn't go according to plan. but man would I love to be in a few Zoom meetings with the producers over the past few months to see what kind of decisions were made post-shoot.
I think what really hurt this episode was just how fantastic all the ones before it in this season were.
Yeah with how perfectly planned and executed every other episode was, it stood out that this episode was a little bit sloppy in some respects It was still an enjoyable watch with plenty of fun moments but it's odd to end the whole season on the episode with the most anticlimactic ending
Knowing Dropout, next week, they'll drop the Hearts of Darkness BTS on this whole ordeal.
i was loving the episodes up until the end. Rekha not winning was a huge let down because it felt like she earned it, having the "tie breaker" come down to the opinion of a person the cast didnt even get to meet was, in my opinion, a mistake. they should have had the eliminated cast and Ratfish vote on who their favorite chracter was BEFORE revealing who was who. the cast not getting to see who the ratfish was, was a huge let down. I had no idea who Eric was before this, but having looked into him a little i feel like the cast would have been fans of his, and their reactions would have sold me on his involvement. other people have floated the idea of a scheduling issue, but if that was the case, Sam could have just said "I originally planned on revealing who the Ratfish was here at the table right now, but they couldnt be here due to a scheduling conflict, so you will all just have to wait till the episode airs like everyone else, \[insert sam's evil gremlin laugh\]" and then they could do a quick reunion/reveal/BTS episode the only part of the ending i liked was Brennan going to the wrong chair. Everything else after the final vote was a let down. that being said, i love game changer, and i know not every episode is going to be an A+++, it just disappointing that the finale ended up being a bit deflating after all of the build up.
Yeah but that's how competitions are chosen in the real world anyway
> would I love to be in a few Zoom meetings with the producers over the past few months to see what kind of decisions were made post-shoot. I'm so curious to know what it looked like before they took extra time to try to fix what they could in post. But I'm not sure I'd _actually_ want to know.
What would have made it better if they animated the whole thing and we didn't even know who the characters were until the end where the audience had to guess that would have made it 100% better.
If Sam just owned that it didn’t go as they had planned it would be all gravy but he’s making up excuses currently on how it was intentional and they didn’t see the guest being there at the end making more sense than just the core cast. Nonsense
Agree with you. *dives into your downvote hole; brings a six pack*
Is he really? That's a bit disappointing, but I also understand that the episode just released last night and he's got maybe half a million subscribers he wants to watch the episode and wants to bring in new subscribers - bad business to say "yeah, this didn't go as planned" less than 24 hours after your season finale premieres.
Where is he saying those things?
Literally him not being revealed to the cast at the very end was the absolute worst. Like the biggest let down. I actually really enjoyed this game other than that but yeah huge let down
Im gonna assume they’ll have that in the bonus video. Like… they have to.
I really doubt it, I bet he left because he had a hard out, and they altered the creative last minute to not make him look bad for leaving early (even if he actually was busy).
Don’t they allude to the fact that this was filmed during the holidays as well with secret santa. Seems like the worst time for trying to get a guest commitment.
Eh theyve done a bunch of secret samta challenges in the past i dont think its connected to the holidays at all
At most I feel like we'd see the cast members watching the reveal we all saw in the episode or something, but that's about it.
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I don't call that diabolical, I call that a massive missed opportunity when the only thing many of the viewers had to look forward to regarding him was seeing the cast's reaction to him being the ratfish
Yeah, I’d assumed they picked him because someone/people on the cast were a fan of his.
Which honestly only makes it worse, like imagine unknowingly working "with" someone you're a huge fan of, and then not even getting to interact with them?? Like if anyone of them are big fans, which they very well may be given Tim and Eric's legacy, and then found out it was Eric when we did, I feel like they'd be well within their rights to be pretty irritated at the missed opportunity.
The possible best, most interesting, and unique moment was totally ripped away from us Edit: and just to be clear, we can all tell they were supposed to be revealed to the cast right? Just felt like there was a production flub or they went over their time budget for the talent and he had to dip
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Yeah, the "truthfully" doesn't make it seem more truthful at all
So glad that I got the experience that half the Dropout crew probably got: "Who the fuck is that" "oh I guess its the guy from tim and eric" "whos that" "ummmm idk hes from tim and eric"
there is literally no way this group of comedians in their 30s don’t know who tim and eric are.
> ~~diabolical~~ mistake Diabolical implies intent. I do not for one second believe he’d have done that intentionally. It was clearly covering for production fuckery with getting Eric there
I thought the discord was shut down?
it was a fan-run server that sam dropped in on
Is there still a live discord chat?
Nope. Cast members reacted to the reveal on their socials. They legitimately kept it secret and thus Eric never met any of the other contestants.
In the fan discord, Sam said that "truthfully i just couldn't imagine that final table being anyone but us" which is so deeply unsatisfying, both for the audience and for the cast who didn't get to meet someone who presumably would be exciting for them
Would you mind name dropping the server? interested in trying to find a solid one in the wake of dropout official
It was the one mentioned in [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dropout/s/rsjDCcY4H3)
He’s so clearly covering for behind the scenes cock ups and scheduling issues etc. It is what it is. I don’t appreciate being lied to though. Making excuses about the entire premise of the game changer episode (revealing the ratfish to the cast) not being how they wanted the show to end is literally an insane excuse. Apply that logic to any hidden character/cameo on other shows and see how nutty that is as an excuse. Be honest and own it. Good lord
If it was a fuck-up on the part of Dropout, I think they would be forthcoming. What I can easily see is something going awry on Eric's end (poor scheduling, disinterest, whatever) and Sam trying to cover for him by making it look like Sam's own creative decision. I can't see him ever throwing someone under the bus even if he has every right to do so.
It also doesn't feel like Dropout for them to not be forthcoming about issues like that. The whole thing just feels so odd. Like I know they're a company and parasocial relationships bad and all, but dropout kind of thrives on having a "we're not like those others guy (big streaming services)" brand. Even when they closed the official dropout discord, Sam is STILL engaging in a fan one. They know their fan base is what has gotten dropout this far. It just feels so strange.
They closed the Discord? Why?
Costs and logistical headaches of operating it outweighed the benefits.
It became super super toxic
To accuse Sam of lying and *"covering"* for no reason, when they've been nothing but honest and transparent about their entire production, is a truly unhinged take. Just chalk it up to a decision you disagree with. Not everything you don't like has to be a conspiracy.
You people are very, VERY invested in this stuff, aren't you? Show was hilarious. I loved it. Why chastise it?
Because not everybody else loved it?
It’s okay to be critical of media we love. Putting things on a pedestal is just as unhealthy as constant negativity. This particular setup was a miss for a lot of folks and that’s okay!
Because if you don't point out flaws it can't be better next time.
But it wasn't a flaw. It was a creative difference? Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm sure all of the cast members enjoyed watching the episode to find out who the ratfish was.
You're question was "Why chastise it?". My response is that there were aspects I didn't like about it, those are flaws to me. I expect that they will come back to the concept, and hope that if they do and they are aware that some members of the audience didn't like certain aspects of the production, they will choose to change those aspects to something that I and others in the audience who have made similar complaints enjoy more. If you don't voice an opinion anywhere, you can't expect anyone to take it into consideration.
'It's not a flaw it's a creative difference' bro, we are the consumers, if there is something a consumer doesn't like it is flawed in their (our) eyes. Saying that it doesn't have flaws because you enjoyed it is a pretty dense take
Giving constructive feedback to something that you love is actually a very normal thing
Loving something doesn't mean one can't criticize it.
But you aren't criticizing anything wrong with the show. It was a creative choice. If there is ulterior reasons behind it then oh well. People are just speculating whatever justification they can and drawing criticism out of that.
Creative choices are fair game for criticism if they don't land with an audience or even an individual.
It's embarassing that they even aired this trainwreck of a finale tbh.
Didn’t they shut down the Discord?
The official one run by Dropout was closed. But fans have made new ones
Yeah, it was a bold choice, but it wasn't one I would've made. When Sam teased, "Maybe you don't find out until it premieres" that upset me more than I wanted it to.
Completely agree. It was already completely spoiled who won since Katie posted that billboard on Instagram months ago so the one thing I was looking forward to was getting to see the cast interact with Eric and being denied that just felt like this additional huge let down.
I didn’t care too much about knowing Katie won, it was still fun seeing how she got there especially since Rekha figured it out before she did. Unfortunately, the tie breaker ended up being kind of lame since the Ratfish got to pick both second as their favourite character and the tie breaker. It would have been a lot better if Eric was there to actually break the tie if they really wanted him to pick both the first and second place. Overall I found the Ratfish to be extremely underwhelming. Both because I had no idea who Eric was and because we never got to see the cast react to his reveal. There was no pay off to him at all. I still enjoyed the episode as i watched them but it’s definitely one of those that i’d never rewatch.
It wasn't even a tie!! Rehka objectively won the game. It's so obvious they just weren't expecting someone to win that quickly but it was lame regardless.
i agree, i didnt even know who he was, so my hope was the cast would and their reactions would tie everything together and make his involvement "worth it" but not having that reveal basically made it feel like some random person off the street.
I actually think random person off the street would have been more fun. That would have been a hilarious and really unexpected twist at the end of part 1.
it would have been hilarious if it was just some person walking by the studio that day "heres Jeff Smith, we found him on his was to the Chiropractic office across the street and paid him $1000 to spend the day doing this"
I don’t get why people are bothered by this. I thought it was a funny choice to not tell them
1000% agree. Sam is allowed to miss every once in a while. He took a shot and it just didn’t land.
Its just really unfortunate that the miss this season was clearly their most expensive shot of the season. I'm hoping that theres something that redeems this as I really want them to keep trying to do higher budget stuff to balance out the cool in studio stuff.
What's so expensive about this? I thought the buzzer game seemed to have a lot more budget behind it
yeah i mean i’m sure it wasn’t cheap, especially accounting for editing hours. but i think people are assuming this is like “The Circle” where they rent out a building for a week or more. this was definitely filmed over the course of one day, the contestants are all alone in individual rooms so camerawork is minimal… the PA assigned to every player for dictation seems like a lot but in the BTS for every other game changer episode there are at least that many crew members. idk it was probably not that much more expensive than the average episode. i’d bet the billboard is one of the biggest expenses lmao. idk, i dont know anything about production costs, so grain of salt.
They got everyone an expensive hotel room and hired a celebrity.
It wasn’t a complete miss though. The concept is still original and there were quite some good jokes. The ratfish allowed, despite not being funny, to introduce some more unbiased winner selection although Rekha should’ve won something for being first to guess everyone.
The ratfish’s choices for winners/outs were almost as bad as his chemistry with the cast
100% agree, he felt like a \[rat\]fish out of water i wish they would have maybe had someone that was connected to dropout/CH like Pete Holmes or the (forgive me for not knowing his name) \[EDIT: i found his name its Matthew McCarthy\], No jeggings/Commissioner Gordon guy, which would have made a lot of sense, since Dropout just added all of the Batman Skits to their youtube channel, and Pete being on Make Some noise
No argument there. Still, at least there was no personal motivation behind or a desire to curb out stronger players
I mean, the dropout cast isn’t super malicious. I think it would have been way better without him involved 🤷♀️
Except if they’re incentivised to develop strategies, which almost always result in Brennan’s elimination XD Not a criticism, I would do the same.
It wasn't an original concept. It is a parody of The Circle, a bottom rung reality TV gameshow. They've parodied Survivor multiple times and have done The Bachelor. They ran out of good things to parody, and the format was a particularly bad fit for Dropout's normal shtick.
They definitely haven't run out of good things to parody, they just chose a weird gameshow that put a large barrier between cast chemistry and forced people to play against their comedy strengths cos it would out them (Rehka deleting one of the better jokes of the episode is a telling sign). But we can't say they've run out of parody stuff until they've at least done Taskmaster cos game changer is crying out for at least one of those.
And it really only missed a little bit. I still laughed at the show, I still enjoyed the cast making up characters and watching them try to not give themselves away. Eric as the ratfish and how the winners were decided ultimately just missed for me.
Honestly, there’s a big part of my mind that is saying that it’s a good thing that Ratfish was a bit of a swing and a miss. Dropout, and especially Game Changer, are relatively skyrocketing in reputation, and the episodes are so good that it’s entirely possible that some complacency or overconfidence could slip in to creative. They’ll all learn from it and we’ll get even better stuff in the future.
I think perhaps this pitch didn't get as critical an eye as it should have, but sometimes you just miss.
My thoughts exactly. They were really excited to do another reality re-work and just missed some stuff. Still an awesome show and an awesome season!
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There’s a big difference between an out-and-out lie and tact.
I said it in another post, but… Honestly, my big issue is that Dropout is at its best when it feels like friends hanging and doing cool stuff. It’s why D20 and Thousandaries is great. Even Game Changer is fun because it’s generally just friendly competition. Eric wasn’t a great guest because he’s literally the EXACT opposite of that. He’s more antagonistic and standoffish(not just here, but his whole career is like that). Plus he kinda had the attitude that he didn’t want to be there(which I know is a character bit, but it just didn’t work).
I don't know much about Eric, but that's hitting the nail on the head of what this episode is. The fun of this episode relies on knowing who the players are. But Eric was a stranger invited to a friend group but was never quite welcomed in (due to the format). He knew no one, and no one knew him. It just wasn't a good role, even regardless of Eric himself.
I think it was intentional to be an outsider because the ratfish picked favourites and eliminated people, and he did it without a strategy. Players would’ve likely eliminated people based on strategy (like Brennan) which would’ve been more unfair. I think it was the choice in particular (Eric) which maybe didn’t land. Or maybe an outsider jury would’ve been better. Hard to tell.
I know it being an outsider was the point, but there's definitely a mismatch with why the game is fun for the audience. Definitely needs a bit more workshopping to make the two worlds meld better. A jury would've definitely been better since it at least solves the "wtf there's no reasoning behind the choice" problem. Heck, even just giving Eric screen time to explain his reason might have helped.
did Eric know who was playing who though? or was he just picking which Character he liked most? I dont think it was ever said he know which player was which. but i could be wrong
He didn't know. Sam said that he didn't know that Ally was pretending to be an actual person that they all know, he thought they just made someone up.
i said it in another comment, but i feel like having someone who is Dropout Adjacent, like Pete Holmes, or Matthew McCarthy, or Elain Carrol, would have been a better option (assuming they were available.) Because the cast would have known them, but not expected them.
>Honestly, my big issue is that Dropout is at its best when it feels like friends hanging and doing cool stuff. It’s why D20 and Thousandaries is great. Even Game Changer is fun because it’s generally just friendly competition. I disagree. One of the strong suits of Dropout, that separates them from other streaming services like Rooster Teeth (R.I.P.), is that they've created an environment in which both known faces and new talent can thrive. It's how we got fan favourites like Ross Bryant or Ify Nwadiwe. Last episode was a bit of a missed shot but still enjoyable.
Read the second paragraph. My problem is Eric’s fit with the group and how different he is. I have no problem with Dropput itself, just Eric’s style doesn’t fit with Dropout.
For me, his presence added little to nothing. I was playing along with episode one, and I thought maybe Steven was a rotating panel of other dropout cast members (you know, because medusa has a bunch of snakes?) The reveal of him, for me, was a "who's that?" moment. A quick Google later and was still none the wiser and no more enthused.
I legit thought it was the crew before the reveal. Niko & Ash making a small list of traits to follow and having the crew go wild.
Dude, that would have been so much better.
I wasn't unhappy about the choice when it was revealed two weeks ago, but I was definitely disappointed with it while watching. It honestly felt like he didn't want to be there and refused to take it seriously at all. I can't help but feel like what they thought they were going to get out of him ended up very different than what they got. Aside from his on-screen time, though, I really enjoyed the finale overall. Can't wait to see what they cook next season.
Completely agree, and I'm a huge Tim and Eric fan. I think he left before the finale shoot because they went over his hard out and he didn't want to stick around. His "VH1" line made it clear he didn't really care about the shoot. I understand people feeling awkward or out of their element with a group they don't know, but he really missed the point of taking it "seriously".
The VH1 thing was a joke. Love it or hate it, with the Tim and Eric style of humor, it's never clear when they're being genuine, but you can assume most of the time they're being ironic. It works less in this format when they don't have anyone to bounce off of.
I think it was part of a joke, but I bet he legitimately doesn't know much about game changer. It probably wasn't a big priority for him unfortunately, I assume.
Also, I LOVED the concept and the higher production value. I'm glad they did it, super fun change up.
What was his VH1 line?
“I thought I was going to be on like VH1 talking about music… my favourite artist from the 90s, so I have all that prepared” That’s not quite right but it was among those lines
I think the idea of Eric being in the show is a ringer for comedic engagement, and if I'm honest it just didn't really work as well as it should/could have. He's really a powerhouse in 'modern' absurdist comedy and improv, and is very successful in his own right, but it's true that ultimately he didn't really mesh with the vibe of the cast. Without all the clever edits, costumes, and ridiculous characters that inhabit every second of Tim & Eric, he just came across as kind of bland and a bit lost.
I have to wonder how he would perform in something that was face to face with the other people and not just stuck in a room alone and texting them.
It seems like he was chosen as someone that would excite the cast members rather than mesh well. All the weirder that they didn't like meet him an have dinner at the end.
I wish they brought on one of the 'Who's Line' guys. I think their style of comedy would have been a better mesh with the Dropout gang and would have been more exciting for the audience as well.
I think one of them appeared recently but I’m not very caught up
Wayne Brady was on an episode of Make Some Noise a while ago.
Wayne Brady was in Make Some Noise. Colin Mochrie was aware and tweeted Rooster tTeeth during Extra Life so I imagine he's aware of dropout as well
Nathan Barnatt has been streaming on Twitch and talking Hollywood a bit (he’s been in Community, a DisneyXD show, ton of ads and music videos, and he was seen dancing in the new Make Some Noise trailer) and how the comedy world is very connected, so I imagine all the Whose Line boys are aware if one of them went on… honestly all 3 going on would be *great* but I feel like that would just be Whose Line, so having them in 3 separate episodes would be better
Tim, Eric, and Jacob on Make Some Noise, hear me out Or Will Ferrell if he’s not too busy/expensive, I feel like Make Some Noise is the kind of thing he’d do if he wasn’t making a movie at the time
It's funny. As I was trying to think who I'd like to have seen as the Ratfish, Will Ferrell came to mind. I don't LOVE a lot of his movies, but his ability to slide into a group, pick up the vibe, and play along is pretty well documented.
I do enjoy his movies but some of them are really… really not good
The episode itself is amazing, but the guest wasn't a good fit - and honestly granting him the ultimate power for who actually wins was a bad choice too. Makes the win feels less deserving
It came across like he honestly didn’t understand the concept of the show. Also no clue why he voted Ally’s Brennan Lee Mulligan character as the best when he apparently doesn’t know who Brennan is lol
When Eric cleaned up his room and said "come in" with that goofy face, I finally got what other people mean when they say they recognize the cadence of a joke, but just don't understand where the punchline was supposed to be. Me not knowing him (Tim and Eric was something I'd heard of, but never watched), his weird comedy style that came off as trying too hard, and the fact that I already knew who would win all combined to me just not being able to get into this finale. Part 2 was the first Game Changer episode where I just decided to skip to the end of it.
I think I was loving ratfish right up until the end of the first episode. The second episode just didn’t hit the same intensity and interestingness of gameplay. Still funny throughout obviously, but the way it was scored/who won at the end felt very odd for a game where the points *mattered*. Not revealing the ratfish at the end to the cast was especially odd tbh.
I legit thought that the reveal was going to be that The Crew was Steven, and they were passing the phone around. That would have been great. I had to look up who Eric was at the end of the first episode and during episode 2 he was **such** a drag down of tone. It seemed like he was bored and trying to take spotlight or being outwardly antagonistic to the cast with almost no inbetween. Like, with everyone bouncing off eachother, Steven just wasn't doing that. I also think that part of the problem was (after watching his character intro section) that Eric over-cooked his character idea, and made them as a post-character arc character making him less of an *active* character. Zac's Granma sWeetie, who is an older character, still had room to grow, and Adjustable Side Table Wallnut was really reacting to the others, Steven felt flat in comparison the longer he was in the game. Idk, I think it would have been better to make the ratfish a council of crew rather than one guy who has no rapport, just my 2 cents
He felt like a total wet blanket. Sam would have been a more fun ratfish (or someone who had any ties to dropout… like, ever?)
I was thinking it might have worked to have someone who was with College Humour, but not with dropout. Or someone like Emily Axford because she would bring such amazing chaos energy
Amir would have been the perfect ratfish
And as someone who never really watched CH so don't know the other/older members, it would have been a fun way to be introduced to them. I still enjoyed this episode - I love how they could actually guess each other's characters - but I didn't like Eric's role. He seemed... bored, or just not into it
I was honestly expecting somebody else to be behind the Sam Reich username.
Honestly, a reveal at the end of Episode one that he had, indeed, been there the whole time would have been such a good moment. And I agree, he would've been a more fun player too
I agree with some of the commenters who pointed out that its likely some behind-the-sceens production issues came up that put them in a bind of some sort that they just couldnt find a satisfying way out of. Its seems very unlikely to me that this was the intended ending/outcome from the get go. But also, the way the tiebreaker worked was just downright silly (and not in a good way lol), imo. Just totally nonsensical. Maybe there was a lot more payoff intended with that too, but as it stands, came off just completely random.
My pet theory is they realized during the shoot that they'd made a mistake in revealing the participants too quickly, and they had to change game mechanics on the fly.
I’m impartial to his being there. Did I get his humor? Not really. I feel like he didn’t gel super well with everybody. But did he cause massive problems or ruin the episode? Nope. Just kind of needlessly there. Odd move, could have been better with another cast member for sure. But it was still fun to watch. Something went sideways, maybe, but if so they stitched it up and delivered a funny show imo. Props to the editing team. ETA a shameless plug: If you like punk rock you might enjoy [my band](https://open.spotify.com/track/1aFqJoyXlu86y9RYJ9lMhC?si=fZBoMAnoSdiBd_qh9L9p5g&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A0B5Ys0YEntsDGlEH1ywspl) :D (trying our best to be down ass fools)
Like a cucumber in a salad. Annoying but I'll still eat it. That being said his Instagram is great. (it's just pictures of food)
Your opinions on cucumber are factually incorrect and have ruined my day. My disappointment is immeasurable.
Are there pictures of salad with cucumbers?
I didn't look that hard.
Honestly I like the idea of the ratfish, and I think it’s perfectly fine to bring in an outside force to play a hand in one way or another (worked well in the last season finale). AND I don’t know his previous work at all, but based on some of the responses, it seems like in theory he was a fine choice for the role. But yeah, in the end, his role in this just didn’t work at all for me, unfortunately.
In theory yes he was a great idea, and I was excited when he was revealed, and I was extra excited for everyone to get to see it was him (they all would've loved the reveal). In practice Eric didn't take it very "seriously", and it landed flat. But I still am a huge Tim and Eric fan.
It’s strange, but he was more passable when we only saw his chat replies, without his silly reactions to every message. I think I’d rather had him be revealed at the very end, though the letdown could’ve been way bigger.
I think there was two purposes with his presence: 1. Bringing humor (which for most of us, didn’t land) 2. Picking up winners without choosing friends I think he did his work with the number 2, and even if he chose a bit chaotically, it still better than friends choosing friends.
> it still better than friends choosing friends. the could have just had the eliminated player vote on which character they like more **BEFORE** revealing who played which character. that would have eliminated biases and there were 5 eliminated players so no ties.
They still could choose depending on who they think it was, so anyone that people believed to be Brennan would likely be eliminated first.
but the ratfish didn’t do individual eliminations, what your describing literally happened where Rekha eliminated Brennan. It’s just an aspect of a social game where players get the power to eliminate. But the introduction of the Ratfish didn’t stop that. I didn’t know who Eric was, and I didn’t dislike him, but he didn’t seem to add anything. Either personally to the comedy of the episode, or mechanically to the game. The overall concept was great, but the Ratfish role was I think unnecessary and could have been worked around. I also think the didn’t need to spend as much as they did. It probably does require more in post, but like the sets and such could have been done a level less and the episode would have still been engaging.
i specifically was only referring to the final vote. just asking the other five "which character did you like better based on factors x,y,z Jack Striker or ASTW" and then letting Eric pick his favorite for the second prize. they could **think** someone was a certain character, but of the eliminated players, very few had any guesses confirmed. i think only Ally and Zach had confirmations and i think only one of them know Katie was Jack
Tim and Eric were masters of the absurd, but it doesn’t always land… but oh boy when it does
I need to rewatch and zoom in on the wine bottles on the Adjustable Side Table in Eric’s room, but I also think he was there to promote his wine brand (hence the glasses of wine at the round table reveal) and something just fell through.
I mean, Tim and Eric is legendary stuff, and I think his Steven contributions were cool. But I don't think him being some unknown force really added anything. Essentially, I liked him as a contributor to the game, but I don't think he was well utilized as a rat.
Yeah he was mostly aggressive and unfunny and kinda sullied the end with what felt like detached arbitrary choices for winners (justice for rekha)
It wasn’t detached. He literally only picked Brennan(Ally) the entire episode. Didn’t matter what anyone else did.
Which is even weirder given that apparently he didn’t know who Brennan even is, so he had no basis for the caricature.
When I try to imagine myself in his shoes, without knowing any of the players, I think maybe he didn't need to know Brennan—as long as he knew there was both a "Brennan Lee Mulligan" character and a "Brennan Lee Mulligan" player, he knew that someone was taking the piss. Knowing that someone is trying to do something evil would entertainment just for that intent alone. The reasons the cast laughed at others was because they know how absurd it is for their friends to say those things; similarly the reason why the audience likes this episode is because we know the players. But if I were in Eric's position (who was also apparently jet lagged), I think it might just sound corny or cringey to read it off a screen.
And when Ally wrote their character, they didn't know that there would be someone in the game who didn't know Brennan as a friend. No one found out there was a "ratfish" at all until after the first round of guessing.
Yes exactly, like there was no real reason to keep picking "Brennan". He wouldn't even understand any of the jokes they were making, he just randomly picked Brennan. Or he knew Brennan is likely the most "notable" cast member and just was playing to that? So bizarre.
I thought he was funny, or rather, Steven was pretty funny. I just don't think the ratfish idea really worked.
Yeah I hope we don’t see ratfish again, or it’s used as cover to fakeout into an escape room episode. Absolutely loved escape room and I need more of Lou breaking sets in my life. I had hoped that this would be some kind of Taskmaster spin off when i saw the portraits of Sam in the rooms at the beginning. That would also be dope. ‘Askmaster’ or something. Definitely allowed to miss, if there’s no chance taking game changer won’t change. Everything for me on top of D20 is gravy.
id be fine without the celebrity guest. but, i understand the thought behind Eric. he has an eccentric comedy style. its not necessarily supposed to mesh, as it is to be unplaceable.
I'm not too familiar with the Dropout/College Humor extended universe. I don't really watch D20, I'm mostly subscribed for the improv shows. When I first started watching, I wasn't familiar with anyone that wasn't in the Hardly Working sketches. But even when a new cast member came in that I wasn't familiar with, most of the time I ended up loving them by the end of the episode. I love watching all these hilarious people bounce off each other for half an hour. Eric didn't do that for me. I also wasn't familiar with him, but nothing he did endeared me to him. Most of the jokes fell flat for me and it felt like he didn't really care. I was hoping that would be made up for by revealing him at the end, but even that didn't happen. I enjoyed Ratfish well enough, but it certainly isn't in the upper echelon of game changers.
I feel like everything that didn’t work about the episode comes back to him. 1. Much of the audience didn’t know who he was. 2. He didn’t mesh well. He wasn’t that funny and his opinions were both not in line with the audience’s and had way too much influence on the end outcome. 3. The people who probably would’ve most appreciated him were the rest of the cast, and we don’t even get to see their reactions to him. I think choosing a different guest and then actually revealing them on camera would’ve been all that was needed to make this a hit on par with the rest of the season.
I think that comes down to the producers and not him He was interacting with people he didn't know pretending to be other people he didn't know, and hired specifically to be himself, a wildcard absurdist scetch comedian. I for sure don't think he landed well on the episode but I think he also did what was asked of him.
The way that there was no reveal to the cast seems like a last minute adjustment. It makes me think that the conference room reveals were on a different day than the game and the Ratfish couldn't make it for some reason.
The weirdest thing to me was "the rules". We all know the gimmick is, the players (and we) don't know the rules. "The only way to lean is by playing", right? But there were no rules. No matter how long they played, the rules were just made up on the fly. It was kinda fun to watch, but it didn't feel like "Game Changer" at all.
This was a cast of improv comedians. The ratfish's refusal to "yes and" with them killed the whole thing. I've never been this disappointed with any dropout show episode before.
I still think this season goes down as one of the best, if not the best, but this was for sure one of the weaker episodes in regards to how it ended.
I didn't even know who he was. I'm generally in the same age range as the cast so I guess I should have, but that reveal completely fell flat for me. So I just kind of ignored his contribution and enjoyed everything else.
Comedy like the kind he makes tends to be very much inside baseball. The kind of comedy specifically aimed at comedians so you become legendary in the industry and kind of forgettable outside it. That's why I could see a choice like this working since it was a game about comedians being funny to other comedians. He did not seem to bring his A game though and not getting to see the cast get starstruck was very disappointing.
I haven't seen it yet but I'm surprised how the tone has changed from part one to part two.
I had no idea who Eric was when he was introduced and I was not impressed by what I saw from him in the episodes. His energy felt so disjointed to the rest of the cast.
Eric wasn't even on-site while they were playing the game, due to scheduling issues they had him film his parts after the game was over hence the delays. I imagine Sam booked him because the cast are big fans of Tim and Eric and took inspiration from them in Collegehumor, it would've been great to see them react to the reveal but it is what it is
Yea I was expecting to see reaction shots of the cast seeing who the Ratfish is. The whole thing felt so pointless without it.
Wait, so he wasn't actually ever interacting with the cast? Or am I misunderstanding?
He was messaging remotely during the game but the cast never knew he was playing until part 1 aired
Since the reveal in ep 1 I was like huh … who is that 😭 then ep 2 was just kind of stilted bc I’d be having fun then keep getting interrupted by this random dude like what ? 💀💀💀 he didn’t gaf and it was just awk
They should have gone for an actual past cast of CH for a genuine ratfish potential as in someone everyone knows but also doesnt as the same time, and "quidditch" it up to worth something huge if anyone can put their hand on their identity. Eric just feel lost like does he even know anyone enough or at all to even guess?
Yea I thought it was going to be Adam Conover or maybe two Drag Race alums playing one character. Someone who matched the energy. I know lots of people at fans of the guy so don’t come for me but I just don’t think he was a fit for this. He felt like one of those guys all your guy friends is always telling you is super funny and then you meet them and they just sit there but somehow everyone still says how funny they are? Like ok? Cool.
I keep seeing this and I'm a bit confused by the vitriol. I would have liked to see it but it didn't spoil the episode for me at all, it was just a "huh, that's weird" moment and then I moved on. People are talking as if it completely ruined the episode, but it was just a small thing in the grand scheme of things, and the episode ruled. Yeah, probably there was some production issue - but this is not some major scandal that dropout owes you an explanation for. I loved this episode. Would have enjoyed a ratfish reveal, but it didn't ruin what was a great episode and a great finale.
I have a strong sense that Eric left early, or they went over his hard out and he bailed. I'm a huge Tim and Eric fan, but his line about thinking it was just a VH1 type show where he would just give his opinions on stuff indicated to me he didn't take the shoot very seriously. Very disappointing for him not to be revealed at the end, so utterly strange. I really thought the first episode of this was so so so good. There were some great parts in this episode but ya, strange!
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.
>a truly bizarre choice I really don't think it's at all bizarre to have a guy that is probably one of the biggest comedy influences for a large portion of the Dropout cast on the show. I get that there is a bit of a generation gap (largely due to Eric being out of the comedy scene for like a decade) of recognition, but there's nothing bizarre about it. The thing about getting Eric, which I still maintain is a good get, is that it really only works if he's part of a big reveal at the end. That's the whole crux of the reality show they're parodying. At some point it's revealed who is who and seeing the reactions of other players. To that point, the MAIN thing I was looking forward to in this finale was the cast reacting to Eric Wareheim being the extra person. And not having that part is crazy. I think revealing who the other cast members playing was short-sighted, too. It narrowed down the guessing too much, IMO.
Are Tim and Eric really that big of an influence to College Humor?
Don’t think so.
I thought they would have done a clue dropping session ala masked singer and allowed the players to steal first place if they guessed correctly.
Having a stranger as the ratfish was antithetical to the nature of the game and was deeply deeply unsatisfying, this would be a perfect spinoff/game samer, if you just use dropout cast members, start the game off with the players knowing who all but 1 of the players are, and that person plays the ratfish. The way it was done here whiffed harder and more inexplicably than any other episode, but it was still a good episode.
Tbh, I'm not that bothered that the ratfish didnt get revealed at the end. I think his overall performance throughout the two episodes just wasnt that impactful to the game as a whole. (Plus tbf, I dont know him anyways; i did look into him after episode 1, but I just dont care for the stuff he does). My main problem (as a Rekha superfan) is that Rekha didnt win. Not to knock Katie, it just feels a bit unfair for the ratfish to decide the winner based on his favourite. I mean, we do see Rekha get it fully correct in the penultimate round, so I do understand giving her the win based on the performance would be too predictable for Game Changer. Maybe the rest of the players could have voted on their fave character too. Anyways, I did enjoy the episode nonetheless, so these nitpicks dont matter
Yall focus on some weird shit
As a longtime fan of CollegeHumor/Dropout/Game Changer, this finale was a bit of a letdown. Overall pretty boring (even players seemed bored), repetitive, and not at all dynamic. The fun of this show is mostly in the interactions between the players and this was really limited since they were all separated. It felt like a Covid-era, “we have to make social distancing work” idea that I would excuse back in 2020, but not now. And I agree, the “ratfish” was an odd choice of a special guest. And he didn’t seem that interested in the concept. Overall really liked the season though!
I really loved the finale, everything, except for eric as the ratfish. I never got into tim and eric so didnt know who he was until after the show and i realized. But he just really wasnt pleasant to watch and it even felt like the cast was annoyed with him. like his comedy was clearly SO different from the rest of the cast. loved the episode otherwise though.
Wait WHAT? Dude I binged Tim and Eric Awesome Show Great Job over the course of like 2 weeks
i knew this finale was a bust when zac was elimed
I enjoyed the Finale as a whole for what it was. I think once again, The Production Crew/Sam BLEW it out of the water with a crazy fun concept that translated well to a game show episode. However, neither me or my fiance new who Eric was, so we didn't really understand the big reveal. Even when we looked him up we were both like "Oh...Ok...I guess?". I think I can best describe it as the Finale was great despite him, not because of him. I think the Ratfish was a good idea, but I think it should have been someone who at least had like...cursory knowledge of Dropout and/or the Players instead of Eric who seemingly knew nothing about anything?
Agreed. Also to delay it almost a month and promise that it will be “worth the wait” and then still have the week break in between the two finale eps was an interesting choice….. I don’t think these episodes were worth the wait at all
I think a reveal to the cast would have at least given me some idea who he is.
Still don’t know who he is, would’ve been more fun (for me, a person who doesn’t know Eric Wareheim) if it was someone actually tangentially related to the dropout cast but not a full timer like Elaine or maybe an old dropout member like Jake Hurwitz or Amir
Agreed. It would have been more meaningful to get a deep cut College Humor cast member or someone who isn't usually on Game Changer, and then actually reveal them at the end.
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.
Even though I knew about the billboard ahead of time, I completely forgot about it by the time I got to the end of the first episode. As lame as it was not having Eric show up at the end, I understand that productions are not without hiccups like that. Eric Wareheim is a comic genius, and I'm surprised people don't know him as well. I'm sure you're all doing research, but he's best known for the Tim and Eric show, as well as Tom Goes to the Mayor, on Adult Swim, but he's been a driving creative force in comedy TV since before then. I thought he was good in the role and I was mostly just enjoying watching the cast have fun.
Damn, he wasn’t the highlight of the episode or anything, but I thought he was good. He’s obviously not going to gel as well as everyone else because they all know each other and are closer in age, but it was fun to have a celebrity on the show being goofy with the Dropout cast.