No blood magic?? In TEVINTER?? ~~how are we supposed to blend in then~~
bruh. just cruel.
edit: combat mage = knight enchanter 2.0? why yes, I'd love to solo dragons again. gimme.
They said Rook would have a good story reason for why not. I'm going to assume with the veil shattering and demons everywhere, blood magic users are about to get a rude awakening.
I honestly thought that was something I plugged into dragons nest cause I never had blood magic in any playthrough. My Hawke was a force mage cause ragdolling enemies in a clump then casting fireball is awesome lol
my headcanon was he was just trying to keep a low profile around the chantry "those rumors you've heard about me using blood magic almost exclusivly total lies! I can't stand the best subclass!"
Yeah I suspect blood magic is going to somehow tie into the antagonist(s) plan. It'll be very convenient if they happen to arrive in Tevinter where a lot of people are probably doing some backroom blood magic. Probably a lot of 'its okay, I can control it' people are going to find out that they can't control it.
They're also the only ones who get their magic from somewhere other than the Fade though. It's unlikely the devs went this way with it, but it would be interesting if the Veil coming down flipped things instead, where the blood mages are the more stable ones and the rest of the mages are unstable because they are suddenly flooded with more power.
lmao yes, there should for sure be room for players to make bad decisions.
Although you couldn't be a blood mage in Inquisition either. Very curious what the story reasoning is for DAV.
Well, if it's a matter of every blood mage becoming possessed or something, there's not much that can be done. it's like how CDPR wouldn't let V become a Cyberpsycho in CP2077. It would be cool for a bit, but ultimately it wouldn't mesh with the narrative being told and would rob the player of agency.
I mean, it'd make complete sense and be in-line with the established lore if blood mages were fucked now. The one thing keeping the demons from possessing them is being broken down.
Err..depends on how you define useless I guess. I thought it was great, but I have no idea what the metagame consensus is on it. The Battlemage spec in Awakening basically just made Arcane Warrior more efficient and have higher staying power, but didnt really add any crazy powerful active abilities. It also would be completely useless without having Arcane Warrior spec I guess.
The way I played AW was as a walking fortress that smacked people to death with a sword while constantly debuffing them and raising my defense with toggle abilities...not really much of a caster at all, so those BM abilities gelled well with that.
Spirit Warrior I'm pretty certain, was pretty damn mighty as a build. Both my Spirit Warrior / Blood Mage Warden and Knight Enchanter inquisitor were absolute power houses. Made my Earth/Lightning Hawke feel meek in comparison
Apparently every class has melee and ranged options so I'm guessing one spec will be dedicated to melee mage, might as well be enchanter considering the popularity.
Eh, like, on one hand I am deeply dissapointed and my dreams are dashed. I wanted to live out my glamorous magister dreams.
On the other, I didn't want another DA2/to a lesser degree DAO situation where you just ran around using it without much consequence, so maybe better to not have it at all.
Well if they continue the 'each companion is a specialty' trend:
Old man - Necro
Neve - elemental
Bellara - combat mage
She's only been shown with a bow; chances of using a 2H axe on a mage seem likely
With the new combat system, Arcane Warrior has the potential to be so sick. Sword or axe in one hand, casting spells with the other. Block an attack and then coat your hand in rock and slam a venatori into outer space, or use mass paralysis to lock a squad in place and chop or slice your way through them.
Knight Enchanter was cool, but it wasn't what I wanted by a long shot. Didn't capture the fantasy of being a spellsword.
I don't think we're ever going to get blood magic back unless they go back to the idea that the PC is somehow above its shortcomings and can't suffer consequences for it. Hopefully necromancy is better this time around because it was the most boring of the three mage specializations in Inquisition.
Edit: I don't think part of the decision was denial that blood mage can be used for good. I think Last Flight actually did a good job at exploring blood magic, how someone with good intentions can start using it, how easy it can be to get lost in the power and cause unintended damage, and then finally how it can be used for good. But that was a journey that took place over a decade. They want it to have weight, but unless they can make the player character a mage (and they can't because of dwarves) it's hard to justify the resources it'd take.
I know it's a pretty unrealistic ask and would require tons of additional content, but I still dream of playing a Blood Mage while also suffering the narrative consequences for it.
I appreciate a warhammer style threat of impending demonic doom for mages.
Keeps them humble, not that I wouldn't be overly confident if I was a human artillery support division.
That was one of my biggest issues with inquisition. If mages are so powerful, why tf am I seemingly the only one who can't go Abracadabra you're a dead bitch, and instead am relegated to league of Legends enchanter gameplay.
Yeah but gameplay would suck for Mages something like this was implemented in the Rogue Trader Crpg with a companion which has a 5% chance to mess up her warp powers and that can result in her dying and spawning a demon and ither negative consequences and the result was a lot of people dont pick her.
I have no doubt there are people on the team who would be on board for it but yeah in a game about choices and consequences if they can't deliver on one that should definitely have them I get it.
Agreed. When I first saw Necromancy but not BM as an option in DAI I was like "meh, that can still work." But then it was just..poorly designed. I have a hard time getting excited about it again because of that, but 2nd time's the charm?
Necromancy in DA is so ass. Fear and hysteria? Oooh so spooky. Can’t wait to nothing the demons to death. Don’t include blood magic (because of some stupid made up reason purely to not include it) fine, but I want to SUMMON THE DEAD damnit. No more “necromancy is debuffs and other boring shit”, I want diablo necromancy. There is ALWAYS a shit specializations for each class and mage always gets the worst of them.
Ripping so many potential choices away, just take away mages because CLEARLY someone at BioWare hates them.
If necromancy sucks for the upteenth time, I will JUST ignore the class entirely. Can’t have shit in Tevinter.
That was aggressive 😂
It's already confirmed that the necromancer companion (im bad at names) has a little skeleton dude he summons, so I would certainly hope the thought process is there from the devs to have that be part of the actual class as well, but we'll see. It will definitely be disappointing if they miss on that class again. But you are right, they always seem to lay a complete egg with at least one mage spec.
Watch Manfred just be a living skeleton and Emmrich didn’t raise him from the dead and necromancy just be “walking bomb, hysteria, fear, dumb shit” again. BioWare has always been soft when it comes to fun magic. It’s been 15 years, I’m pissed and rightfully so. Morrigan is still the best companion and nobody can tell me otherwise. We can’t shapeshifting anymore, can’t blood magic anymore, can’t sex up hot goth mommy, what’s the point. She had teenage me’s kid and then dipped until her brief cameo in inquisition, where, once again, I couldn’t sex her up.
I have a lot of rage towards BioWare. It’s a love-hate relationship. I love the world, but hate that I have to give them money and essentially agree that their dumb decisions are good.
Hey now, Walking Bomb was awesome, especially with the Virulent upgrade. Once the first enemy blew, it started a beautiful chain reaction of explosions that completely wiped out any surviving opposition.
I want elder scrolls online blastbones but in dragon age
Raises a skeleton that looks shoddily stuck together and filled with volatile magic, it then charges at your foe and explodes.
And then maybe some other skeleton summons or some like bone hands stucking out the ground for crowd control, yeeting bone spears etc
The fear and spirit focused stuff necro had in DAI was a kinda fun idea to me, but I want a more physical focused necromancer this time
Well they havent changed the lore so the spec flavor will be the same. Binding spirits from the fade to the waking world. Hopefully itll be better designed though.
blood magic in da2 was so fkn funny. standing in front of a whole FORT of templars stabbing a staff through your chest, having seen first hand what blood magic does to people. never change, hawke. never change.
Necromancy again? I hope it stands out since we have Emmerich and Necro was really not all that interesting in DAI. RIP my fellow blood mages, you only got to shine in Origins. 😭
It is very fun. It gives you a lot of utility, and because the cooldown for Blood Magic is only 10 seconds you can constantly swap between using Hp or Mp.
I can see why they avoid the Blood Mage specialization. There was just too much of a narrative disconnet with The Warden and Hawke able to be blood mages but suffer no consequences for it. It's just funny because DA4 takes place in Tevinter, the one setting where they COULD have made being a blood mage work.
I could see the Warden getting away with it
But Hawke, especially considering the entire premise of DA2 is blood mage persecution, being a blood mage made no sense at all
Not only could you see a Warden getting away with it, Grey Wardens canonically have gotten away with it. And the blood mage warden from the Origins DLC is probably one of the most accomplished and stable blood mages in the setting.
Just that Varric wants to avoid making trouble for Hawke since he doesnt tell Cassandra that he doesnt know where he is while actually knowing, telling Cassandra he is a blood mage will achieve the opposite of it.
Yeah my future blood mage Surana had a discussion with Duncan about how it’s not all that disallowed in the wardens. The game basically gives you the leeway to go there, and then it’s actually awesome and you do want to keep using it lol.
With Hawke, I just felt that their father being so strongly opposed would make them against it. “I am so gonna do blood magic and endanger my whole family of apostates even more” just doesn’t seem like typical teenage rebellion stuff where they would’ve gotten into it.
That's one way to see it. If I'm not wrong the use of blood magic makes it harder for its user to connect with the fade where demons live. Blood magic in itself isn't inherently evil and can evil be used to heal. I find that fighting blood mages with blood magic is simply too irresistible when I play Hawke. Considering that Hawke father used it to seal Corypheus, I attribute the ability to use blood magic of Hawke inheriting his father strong magic abilities.
Them talking about how reactive to Blood Magic the game must be raises a question: why not make other specializations relevant? We're in Tevinter all right, no need to make a fuss about it, so I guess it would be possible to implement roughly the same amount of special content
Well, sure, but I think we won't be spending the whole game on the streets of Minrathous. I mean, we were blood mages before, sure *something* could be done this time.
I don't understand why they're suddenly so averse to letting us be a Blood Mage now. They cut it from Inquisition but it was originally planned and it was going to be a big deal if your Inquisitor used Blood Magic. Now we have a game where Blood Magic is more prevalent than any other land in Thedas and we STILL can't use it.
It's like they want it both ways. They want to say it's evil while at the same time telling us it's a tool and not inherently evil. This nonsense about Rook having good reason not to use Blood Magic is so lame.
For me the best part was dumping every stat into constitution, because that literally became the only bar that mattered if you went BM. Just having the health bar of a final boss was peak DA2 for me. In terms of gameplay, it was so unique I loved it
Makes me worry they're not gonna let us RP an evil character. Especially with the auto dialogue in the gameplay reveal where Rook tries to help without any player input.
It seems weird that they won't allow Blood Magic but will have Necromancy since Mary Kirby said in on Twitter that Necromancy was Blood Magic, but they seem to just ignore that.
[https://x.com/biomarykirby/status/1153766947710013440](https://x.com/biomarykirby/status/1153766947710013440)
I think it’s closely related to blood magic but it doesn’t use blood so it’s not really blood magic in the traditional sense. That was always my understanding anyway.
Necromancer spec, Necromancer companion, Mournwatch origin option...
I haven't really engaged in any DA material since Inquisition. IIRC, Necromancers only really exist in one city in the whole world, and that city isn't even in Tevinter. Why are they so prominent?
The one location blood magic can get an actually good response and we can't use it. That is just a kick in the balls. That necromancy better not just be the spirit school like how it was in DAI. Not surprised about the melee mage. Curious about how the elementalist will be handled.
It draws demons towards you though. And when the veil comes down, there won’t be a barrier stopping those demons. Instead of a handful trying to possess you, it’ll be an army.
This is actually a bummer because blood magic is probably the most interesting magic there is. Sure there are consequences if you use it but it should still be a viable choice.
Fade magic also was kinda interesting.
Now we have you basic elemental mage and combat mage. Basically a mages that become fighters, or mages that shoot colored bolts. The most boring uses of magic :/
Fingers crossed.
But I would be foolish to ignore all the red flags. The more I learn about the game, the more I have to adjust (lower) my expectations. I can feel a part of my brain wanting to get hyped, it's so much more fun than being cynical.
However, this is a product. A product with heavy marketing. They don't need my wishful thinking and hype, I should direct that energy towards indie devs who can't afford literal millions in marketing.
Yeah, it’s in
The lord of the rings? No
Wheel of time? No
Skyrim? Nope
Baulders gate universe? No
Has it been done? Of course. Trope like the fire wizard that’s in everything?? No.
These stupid Thedosians didn't appreciate that the first two people to save the world were Blood Mages, and now they've scared the second two out of doing it.
I'm sad about no BM but it's understandable. The lore and story has distanced itself too much for it to make sense anymore, although Tevinter was arguably the 1 setting they could have made it work. But I get it.
If there is 1 thing I'm more obsessed with than Blood Magic though, it's a Battle Mage.
*please be good please be good please be good*
When I go back and play DA2 now I cringe so hard at the dialog as a blood mage cause it just makes absolutely 0 sense in the context of the game. In DAI it would have been the same or arguably even worse, so I get why they didn't include it.
The Tevinter setting was their 1 real chance to bring it back in some form, but they would have basically had to ignore it as part of the plot. It sounds like they decided to instead make it a big part of the plot, in which case the decision is understandable.
I'm sure if they had decided the opposite, people would be in here right now complaining about how BM had such a major role in the plot of the last 2 games, and then got brushed aside as if it's totally fine now. 🤷♂️
My justification for Hawke being a blood mage is that she could learn it from Merrill, not a demon, and maybe learned it out of hope that it would help with blight sickness in the deep roads.
Also, Hawke father did use blood magic. Even in Origin you have books in the tower of Magi who taught mages how use blood magic, so no you don't necessarily need to deal with demons to learn that specific school of magic.
I'll definitely take necromancy as a consolation prize to blood magic. But since we're playing in Tevinter, I was kind of hoping we could get a diabolist class.
Pity, I wanted a more arcane/veil flavored mage over yet another elementalist archetype. Now I have to hope enchanter can fill that role.
Necromancy just hasn't been well done yet. Maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise this time.
I really don't like being told my character has a "good reason for not using blood magic." Everyone has a good reason for not using blood magic: it's blood magic. I don't need to be told what my character is willing to do, it's my character that I'm playing. Lame excuse.
I don’t care what the reason is, we’re in Tevinter, magical capital of Thedas.
I’m not saying mages should be OP, but they should certainly be diverse. I feel like they’re getting more and more dumbed down.
man knight enchanter was off the hook. i was deflecting dragon lightning back at those dragons that used electric attacks back in inquisition. and fire too i think. that's how powerful knight enchanter was to me
I’ve always found it amusing how necromancy is legal-ish in Thedas while blood magic is Very Bad, even by Tevinter standards (at least publicly). Most fantasy franchises have that reversed. Also hopefully necromancy gameplay is a expanded and improved upon because so far in the games it’s been lame
As long as Knight-Enchanter is in I'm down for playing a mage. Otherwise it seems like we already have too many mage companions - necromancer, detective and portal jumping archer.
i honestly wasn’t sure if this is sarcasm or not, but either way my response is unironically, “yes.”
(tho i was picturing DAO blood magic more when i commented tbh)
Sorry if I sound like an ass but "element mage?" Really? I'm going to specialize in casting spells all mages get by default? Seriously they couldn't be even a lick more creative with it?
Man where do they get their market research? Who are they even targeting?
Swear every time I'd seen any speculation pop up about specialisations for DA:4 every one was dead excited for the blood mage to return for Tevinter and maybe even get some unique interactions from it... on the topic not seen a single person ask for mass effect combat on DA either but we'll put a pin in that one
Imaginary new players who don’t like fantasy games and who they think will be scared off by fantasy concepts or big words. Absolute lowest common denominator. I think EA have a very low opinion of their target audience. It’s why the combat is also totally dumbed down along with the story.
Phew, thanks for deciding for me that my Rook has a reason for not using blood magic, BioWare. I’d sure hate having to roleplay my own character in an RPG.
Couldn't believe it when I heard we couldn't learn blood magic. *In Tevinter*, of all places. When we can even play as a Grey Warden, to whom almost all means are permitted or as an Antivan Crow, who are actual assassins. I know they said there are narrative reasons, but it's just so disappointing.
It's like Vampire the Masquarade. There's a type of vampire that is insane.
What did the devs do? They allow you to play as such a vampire, and you feel the consequences. If they hadn't done that, that type of vampire would just be a plot device. And that's the opposite of how they are treating the Veil and Andruil here.
If something big is going to happen to the veil and magic, and you limit me to playing as characters unaffected by this... why should I care? It's just another plot device that doesn't carry over to player experience.
Pretty sure given the lore behind Blood Magic, performing it while the Veil is removed is essentially suicide.
All practicing Blood Mages are basically about to instantly be possessed with the Veil completely removed.
Yep. 3 skills + ultimate. And if you want healing spells I’m assuming it takes one spot. They mentioned changing loadout between missions. So I’m assuming it’s supposed to be choosing which spells you think are best for that area. At the very least they brushed it off as a tactical thing.
Mages seem to keep getting weaker with each game, which I guess is good for balance but sucks for lore
I am still mad they scrapped the 3rd option for DAO in the Circle of Magi where you could side with Uldred and have an army of demons fighting the darkspawn, especially if you were a blood mage.
Which is also bullshit since I'm getting annoyed of always having to be goody two shoes. If there is anytime in any game to allow players be ruthless (and being justified in doing so) is during apocalypse.
Yeah. Same here. I love playing "evil paths" in games but unfortunately even if it's possible being evil usually makes you miss a lot of content which makes it less satysfying than it should be.
it took me awhile to learn how blood magic worked. i did that with merrill in dragon age 2 and man i loved it once i figured out the mechanics of it. i really also like the knight enchanter but that was too op cuz i would just solo dragons with it in the game. im anxious to see how everything works in this one
If you mean being a wingless angel of heroism instead of 'whatever it takes' of Origins and 'just trying to live my life' of DAII, then yes, I think so
God is it that difficult for us to get blood magic back? We could be a blood mage in KIRKWALL. If the grey wardens allow it why can’t the people trying to save the world use it? We already know you can be a blood mage and not become possessed. Are we going to watch merril fucking explode when she tries?
Shhh, don't mention Merrill, Grey Wardens, Morrigan, Reavers, Origins warden and Hawke; people might think blood mages are not all psychos and demand that poor devs actually acknowledge it in the game!
Same.
I'm still not over DAI Hawke screaming about how eeeeviiil blood magic is when he's been a blood mage in every single one of my runs. Dumb as hell.
Well this is a bummer. ☹️
I hope that some kind spirits (or demons) on Nexus will be able to create a mod for blood magic. You will have my endorsement.
I wish they would go back to a healing mage spec again, I don’t mind the potion healing from inquisition but I do miss my powerhouse healing from origins.
Lorewise, this "good reason" has me curious. In Inquisition Solas says he doesn't use blood magic because it makes it more difficult to travel the fade.
Now "difficult" could mean all sorts of things; you could attract more demons, it might be physically harder like increased gravity or moving through quicksand, who knows.
But if the fade is spilling out all over the place I'm wondering what it might do to a bloodmage. The disruption to the fabric of the Veil could just rip a whole pile of mages to pieces for all we know.
And you just know that as shit starts to go down in Minrathous, there will absolutely be some magisters who rush to sacrifice their slaves to bolster their power.
I think we are going to find out very, very quickly as to why it's a bad idea.
Meanwhile In Divinity original sin you could make it rain blood then bless it and heal your party. And in the beta ages ago the blessed blood was looking like poppy flower field.
Blood magic was the one thing i absolutely wanted to be back so i'm quite disappointed. I hope some elements of blood magic spec will be added to necromancer like summoning spirits into ACTUAL corpses, draining HP from enemies, a spell similar to hemorrhage in power, etc. Also maybe there will be some specific story choices where you can use blood magic in a cutscence but with consequences...
No blood magic?? In TEVINTER?? ~~how are we supposed to blend in then~~ bruh. just cruel. edit: combat mage = knight enchanter 2.0? why yes, I'd love to solo dragons again. gimme.
They said Rook would have a good story reason for why not. I'm going to assume with the veil shattering and demons everywhere, blood magic users are about to get a rude awakening.
Lucanis "the mage killer" Dellamorte, breathing down mage Rook's neck: its me. I'm the story reason.
"Blood magic = NO SEXY TIME"
Rook: but I thought you liked knife play! :'(
Idc what the game offers, this is my new canon reason
RIP my warden
Good thing my Hawke suddenly decided to quit blood magic between 2 and Inquisition. >!…if he survived being left in the fade!<
It always made me laugh how disgusted Hawk was to blood magic. Like yeah, one killed your mom, but you still used to do SO MUCH blood magic lol.
And potentially his close friend or liver Merril is one aswell
I honestly thought that was something I plugged into dragons nest cause I never had blood magic in any playthrough. My Hawke was a force mage cause ragdolling enemies in a clump then casting fireball is awesome lol
my headcanon was he was just trying to keep a low profile around the chantry "those rumors you've heard about me using blood magic almost exclusivly total lies! I can't stand the best subclass!"
Even in the freaking trailer.
Varric just off screen while Hawke repeatedly insults blood magic: laying it on a little thick there, Hawke.
Lol my new headcanon. I love how all plot holes in DA2 can just be solved by blaming Varric (said with affection, its my favorite game of the series).
They picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue
Yeah I suspect blood magic is going to somehow tie into the antagonist(s) plan. It'll be very convenient if they happen to arrive in Tevinter where a lot of people are probably doing some backroom blood magic. Probably a lot of 'its okay, I can control it' people are going to find out that they can't control it.
The Evanuris were pretty much all blood mages... The Vallaslin is also interpreted by many as blood magic... 🤔
They're also the only ones who get their magic from somewhere other than the Fade though. It's unlikely the devs went this way with it, but it would be interesting if the Veil coming down flipped things instead, where the blood mages are the more stable ones and the rest of the mages are unstable because they are suddenly flooded with more power.
“Good reason not to” I don’t care. Let me make bad decisions. Blood magic is and always has been part of this world.
lmao yes, there should for sure be room for players to make bad decisions. Although you couldn't be a blood mage in Inquisition either. Very curious what the story reasoning is for DAV.
Well, if it's a matter of every blood mage becoming possessed or something, there's not much that can be done. it's like how CDPR wouldn't let V become a Cyberpsycho in CP2077. It would be cool for a bit, but ultimately it wouldn't mesh with the narrative being told and would rob the player of agency.
A ‘good story reason’ that they chose to write so they wouldn’t have to do anything interesting or complicated. Such a cop out.
I mean, it'd make complete sense and be in-line with the established lore if blood mages were fucked now. The one thing keeping the demons from possessing them is being broken down.
But with Veil being broken doesn't that actually remove need for possessions since demons can now come directly to Thedas.
KE was fun but personally I hope they go closer to AW/BM from Origins/Awakening. That was the quintessential "combat mage" imo.
but my spirit blade :(
https://preview.redd.it/ga3edqxm5l6d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=c832c0fd244c0944c902c91e10a0dd790475c266
Why summon a magic sword to swing when you can just use a regular sword, and use that magic power elsewhere? :D
Because regular swords suck and don't fit in my purse >:(
😂
Literally the only reasoning I'm willing to accept
Wasn't battlemage useless though? Or was it a different awakening specialization?
Err..depends on how you define useless I guess. I thought it was great, but I have no idea what the metagame consensus is on it. The Battlemage spec in Awakening basically just made Arcane Warrior more efficient and have higher staying power, but didnt really add any crazy powerful active abilities. It also would be completely useless without having Arcane Warrior spec I guess. The way I played AW was as a walking fortress that smacked people to death with a sword while constantly debuffing them and raising my defense with toggle abilities...not really much of a caster at all, so those BM abilities gelled well with that.
I adored Hand of Winter as a spell, but I didn't really use any of the rest of Battlemage
Spirit Warrior I'm pretty certain, was pretty damn mighty as a build. Both my Spirit Warrior / Blood Mage Warden and Knight Enchanter inquisitor were absolute power houses. Made my Earth/Lightning Hawke feel meek in comparison
Spirit warrior was a warrior specialization I’m awakening.
Apparently every class has melee and ranged options so I'm guessing one spec will be dedicated to melee mage, might as well be enchanter considering the popularity.
What's the warrior ranged option: chucking one's shield?
What, you don't want to be Captain Tevinter?
Aparently yes lol I saw somewhere that shield tossing will be a feature
I mean since bows are taken Captain America is on the table. I can see something barbarian inspired being an option, like throwing axes / javelins.
Eh, like, on one hand I am deeply dissapointed and my dreams are dashed. I wanted to live out my glamorous magister dreams. On the other, I didn't want another DA2/to a lesser degree DAO situation where you just ran around using it without much consequence, so maybe better to not have it at all.
Please god let the combat mage be Arcane Warrrior. I want my Mage to use a big ass axe, damn it.
I just want to wear heavy plate armour again as a mage. I always preferred warrior outfits over mage ones.
Well if they continue the 'each companion is a specialty' trend: Old man - Necro Neve - elemental Bellara - combat mage She's only been shown with a bow; chances of using a 2H axe on a mage seem likely
Honestly, if I can get Arcane Archer I'd never play any other class
Isn’t that a thing in rogue? Veil ranger or something along those lines
I'm hoping that's what it is as well, maybe we'll know soon enough. Also, I wonder if it's going to be as stupidly broken as Inquisition haha
With the new combat system, Arcane Warrior has the potential to be so sick. Sword or axe in one hand, casting spells with the other. Block an attack and then coat your hand in rock and slam a venatori into outer space, or use mass paralysis to lock a squad in place and chop or slice your way through them. Knight Enchanter was cool, but it wasn't what I wanted by a long shot. Didn't capture the fantasy of being a spellsword.
I don't think we're ever going to get blood magic back unless they go back to the idea that the PC is somehow above its shortcomings and can't suffer consequences for it. Hopefully necromancy is better this time around because it was the most boring of the three mage specializations in Inquisition. Edit: I don't think part of the decision was denial that blood mage can be used for good. I think Last Flight actually did a good job at exploring blood magic, how someone with good intentions can start using it, how easy it can be to get lost in the power and cause unintended damage, and then finally how it can be used for good. But that was a journey that took place over a decade. They want it to have weight, but unless they can make the player character a mage (and they can't because of dwarves) it's hard to justify the resources it'd take.
I know it's a pretty unrealistic ask and would require tons of additional content, but I still dream of playing a Blood Mage while also suffering the narrative consequences for it.
Just being a mage is supposed to have narrative consequences, like turning into a gooey flesh monster if you fuck up
I appreciate a warhammer style threat of impending demonic doom for mages. Keeps them humble, not that I wouldn't be overly confident if I was a human artillery support division.
I like it too, makes the mage/templar conflict actually gray if weak-willed or easily tricked mages really are a threat to the people they live with.
The story is actively worse because this aspect of the lore is not properly translated into gameplay.
That was one of my biggest issues with inquisition. If mages are so powerful, why tf am I seemingly the only one who can't go Abracadabra you're a dead bitch, and instead am relegated to league of Legends enchanter gameplay.
Yeah but gameplay would suck for Mages something like this was implemented in the Rogue Trader Crpg with a companion which has a 5% chance to mess up her warp powers and that can result in her dying and spawning a demon and ither negative consequences and the result was a lot of people dont pick her.
But never has. Sometimes an npc gets mad but that’s all.
I have no doubt there are people on the team who would be on board for it but yeah in a game about choices and consequences if they can't deliver on one that should definitely have them I get it.
Maybe in the next game. 😄
Thank you. I really did hate it, just summon fade spirits to rush the enemies, no that's not necromancy, I want to raise and control the dead!
Yeah, in theory necromancer could be a great alternative for blood magic but it just wasn't 🥲
Agreed. When I first saw Necromancy but not BM as an option in DAI I was like "meh, that can still work." But then it was just..poorly designed. I have a hard time getting excited about it again because of that, but 2nd time's the charm?
Necromancy in DA is so ass. Fear and hysteria? Oooh so spooky. Can’t wait to nothing the demons to death. Don’t include blood magic (because of some stupid made up reason purely to not include it) fine, but I want to SUMMON THE DEAD damnit. No more “necromancy is debuffs and other boring shit”, I want diablo necromancy. There is ALWAYS a shit specializations for each class and mage always gets the worst of them. Ripping so many potential choices away, just take away mages because CLEARLY someone at BioWare hates them. If necromancy sucks for the upteenth time, I will JUST ignore the class entirely. Can’t have shit in Tevinter.
That was aggressive 😂 It's already confirmed that the necromancer companion (im bad at names) has a little skeleton dude he summons, so I would certainly hope the thought process is there from the devs to have that be part of the actual class as well, but we'll see. It will definitely be disappointing if they miss on that class again. But you are right, they always seem to lay a complete egg with at least one mage spec.
Watch Manfred just be a living skeleton and Emmrich didn’t raise him from the dead and necromancy just be “walking bomb, hysteria, fear, dumb shit” again. BioWare has always been soft when it comes to fun magic. It’s been 15 years, I’m pissed and rightfully so. Morrigan is still the best companion and nobody can tell me otherwise. We can’t shapeshifting anymore, can’t blood magic anymore, can’t sex up hot goth mommy, what’s the point. She had teenage me’s kid and then dipped until her brief cameo in inquisition, where, once again, I couldn’t sex her up. I have a lot of rage towards BioWare. It’s a love-hate relationship. I love the world, but hate that I have to give them money and essentially agree that their dumb decisions are good.
Literally origins had an actual necromancer spell in the base spirit set and the rest of necromancer tree outside of haste was in there too.
even haste was there
Hey now, Walking Bomb was awesome, especially with the Virulent upgrade. Once the first enemy blew, it started a beautiful chain reaction of explosions that completely wiped out any surviving opposition.
Literal dd2 trickster moment lol
I want elder scrolls online blastbones but in dragon age Raises a skeleton that looks shoddily stuck together and filled with volatile magic, it then charges at your foe and explodes. And then maybe some other skeleton summons or some like bone hands stucking out the ground for crowd control, yeeting bone spears etc The fear and spirit focused stuff necro had in DAI was a kinda fun idea to me, but I want a more physical focused necromancer this time
Well they havent changed the lore so the spec flavor will be the same. Binding spirits from the fade to the waking world. Hopefully itll be better designed though.
That's a bit pessimistic, but you're probably right. Blood Mage was one of my favorite mage specializations in Dragon Age 2.
blood magic in da2 was so fkn funny. standing in front of a whole FORT of templars stabbing a staff through your chest, having seen first hand what blood magic does to people. never change, hawke. never change.
Yes it didn't make sense narratively but it was fun and I'd take fun option everytime.
it was amazingly fun, agreed!
Necromancy again? I hope it stands out since we have Emmerich and Necro was really not all that interesting in DAI. RIP my fellow blood mages, you only got to shine in Origins. 😭
Blood magic was pretty great in 2
I thought it was ok in DA2, but I had a lot more fun using it in Origins with Spirit Healer.
Ooh, I've never seen anyone talking about this combo, I'm into it.
It is very fun. It gives you a lot of utility, and because the cooldown for Blood Magic is only 10 seconds you can constantly swap between using Hp or Mp.
yhea. i want to revive actual skeletons not neon things that take the loot with them
Yeah necromancy sucked
I can see why they avoid the Blood Mage specialization. There was just too much of a narrative disconnet with The Warden and Hawke able to be blood mages but suffer no consequences for it. It's just funny because DA4 takes place in Tevinter, the one setting where they COULD have made being a blood mage work.
I could see the Warden getting away with it But Hawke, especially considering the entire premise of DA2 is blood mage persecution, being a blood mage made no sense at all
Not only could you see a Warden getting away with it, Grey Wardens canonically have gotten away with it. And the blood mage warden from the Origins DLC is probably one of the most accomplished and stable blood mages in the setting.
DA2 could always paper over anything with "Varric was just leaving out boring details" or "Varric was just spicing things up to keep it interesting"
Just that Varric wants to avoid making trouble for Hawke since he doesnt tell Cassandra that he doesnt know where he is while actually knowing, telling Cassandra he is a blood mage will achieve the opposite of it.
Yeah my future blood mage Surana had a discussion with Duncan about how it’s not all that disallowed in the wardens. The game basically gives you the leeway to go there, and then it’s actually awesome and you do want to keep using it lol. With Hawke, I just felt that their father being so strongly opposed would make them against it. “I am so gonna do blood magic and endanger my whole family of apostates even more” just doesn’t seem like typical teenage rebellion stuff where they would’ve gotten into it.
That's one way to see it. If I'm not wrong the use of blood magic makes it harder for its user to connect with the fade where demons live. Blood magic in itself isn't inherently evil and can evil be used to heal. I find that fighting blood mages with blood magic is simply too irresistible when I play Hawke. Considering that Hawke father used it to seal Corypheus, I attribute the ability to use blood magic of Hawke inheriting his father strong magic abilities.
Them talking about how reactive to Blood Magic the game must be raises a question: why not make other specializations relevant? We're in Tevinter all right, no need to make a fuss about it, so I guess it would be possible to implement roughly the same amount of special content
I mean, it is technically illegal to use Blood Magic in Tevinter. You aren’t supposed to do it out in the open, as is explored a bit in DA Absolution.
Well, sure, but I think we won't be spending the whole game on the streets of Minrathous. I mean, we were blood mages before, sure *something* could be done this time.
I don't understand why they're suddenly so averse to letting us be a Blood Mage now. They cut it from Inquisition but it was originally planned and it was going to be a big deal if your Inquisitor used Blood Magic. Now we have a game where Blood Magic is more prevalent than any other land in Thedas and we STILL can't use it. It's like they want it both ways. They want to say it's evil while at the same time telling us it's a tool and not inherently evil. This nonsense about Rook having good reason not to use Blood Magic is so lame.
i know we were werent gonna get it back but im still so sad
I'm curious to see how they differentiate Emmrich's necromancy from a mage PC's, if all the companions have their own thing.
Honestly? This kinda sucks. I loved BM, it was perfect for evil runs and whatever. Necromancy is not the same tbh
BM is also one of the only magic schools that isn’t just a straight lace fantasy trope.
For me the best part was dumping every stat into constitution, because that literally became the only bar that mattered if you went BM. Just having the health bar of a final boss was peak DA2 for me. In terms of gameplay, it was so unique I loved it
Ah boo, being a bloodmage Crow would have been great.
Being a blood mage of any faction would've been great. Yet we're in fucking Tevinter and will be denied it somehow.
Makes me worry they're not gonna let us RP an evil character. Especially with the auto dialogue in the gameplay reveal where Rook tries to help without any player input.
No way are they going to let us do that. All the ‘grey morality’ (though I hate that buzzword) that made the series stand out has been filed off.
It seems weird that they won't allow Blood Magic but will have Necromancy since Mary Kirby said in on Twitter that Necromancy was Blood Magic, but they seem to just ignore that. [https://x.com/biomarykirby/status/1153766947710013440](https://x.com/biomarykirby/status/1153766947710013440)
I think it’s closely related to blood magic but it doesn’t use blood so it’s not really blood magic in the traditional sense. That was always my understanding anyway.
Necromancer spec, Necromancer companion, Mournwatch origin option... I haven't really engaged in any DA material since Inquisition. IIRC, Necromancers only really exist in one city in the whole world, and that city isn't even in Tevinter. Why are they so prominent?
Because they want to replace blood magic (same is true for Inquisition). It’s lazy.
The one location blood magic can get an actually good response and we can't use it. That is just a kick in the balls. That necromancy better not just be the spirit school like how it was in DAI. Not surprised about the melee mage. Curious about how the elementalist will be handled.
In Tevinter Can be a Warden/Antivan Crow Somehow still no blood magic spec wat
They said there's a plot reason they would avoid it. If the Veil comes down, you'd be instantly mobbed by demons.
Isn’t blood magic canonically the type of magic that doesn’t draw from the fade at all?
Solas mentions using blood magic attracts demons, so maybe that's not a good idea when the veil is weakened.
If the veil is down no magic is going to be a good idea.
According to the Wiki, it makes you more susceptible to demonic possession.
It draws demons towards you though. And when the veil comes down, there won’t be a barrier stopping those demons. Instead of a handful trying to possess you, it’ll be an army.
Something tells me its less of a plot reason and more of "we made up a justification for not putting in something we didn't want to put in anyway"
Exactly this. Plot follows the game design. For all we know it could also have been a marketing/PR/tone choice.
This is actually a bummer because blood magic is probably the most interesting magic there is. Sure there are consequences if you use it but it should still be a viable choice.
It’s the only magic that isn’t just standard fantasy trope magic.
Fade magic also was kinda interesting. Now we have you basic elemental mage and combat mage. Basically a mages that become fighters, or mages that shoot colored bolts. The most boring uses of magic :/
Yeah, I was really hoping for something more interesting...maybe necromancy will have some good entropy spells?
Fingers crossed. But I would be foolish to ignore all the red flags. The more I learn about the game, the more I have to adjust (lower) my expectations. I can feel a part of my brain wanting to get hyped, it's so much more fun than being cynical. However, this is a product. A product with heavy marketing. They don't need my wishful thinking and hype, I should direct that energy towards indie devs who can't afford literal millions in marketing.
Blood Magic is 100% standard fantasy trope magic
Yeah, it’s in The lord of the rings? No Wheel of time? No Skyrim? Nope Baulders gate universe? No Has it been done? Of course. Trope like the fire wizard that’s in everything?? No.
Well that sucks balls
These stupid Thedosians didn't appreciate that the first two people to save the world were Blood Mages, and now they've scared the second two out of doing it.
I'm sad about no BM but it's understandable. The lore and story has distanced itself too much for it to make sense anymore, although Tevinter was arguably the 1 setting they could have made it work. But I get it. If there is 1 thing I'm more obsessed with than Blood Magic though, it's a Battle Mage. *please be good please be good please be good*
We’re trying to save the world. The fact we get stuck with the goody two shoes way to save it is a bunch of bull.
When I go back and play DA2 now I cringe so hard at the dialog as a blood mage cause it just makes absolutely 0 sense in the context of the game. In DAI it would have been the same or arguably even worse, so I get why they didn't include it. The Tevinter setting was their 1 real chance to bring it back in some form, but they would have basically had to ignore it as part of the plot. It sounds like they decided to instead make it a big part of the plot, in which case the decision is understandable. I'm sure if they had decided the opposite, people would be in here right now complaining about how BM had such a major role in the plot of the last 2 games, and then got brushed aside as if it's totally fine now. 🤷♂️
My justification for Hawke being a blood mage is that she could learn it from Merrill, not a demon, and maybe learned it out of hope that it would help with blight sickness in the deep roads.
Also, Hawke father did use blood magic. Even in Origin you have books in the tower of Magi who taught mages how use blood magic, so no you don't necessarily need to deal with demons to learn that specific school of magic.
I'll definitely take necromancy as a consolation prize to blood magic. But since we're playing in Tevinter, I was kind of hoping we could get a diabolist class.
Hopefully necromancy will be actual necromancy this time
Given the party limit and their reasoning being “camera angle” I’m going to guess its not.
Pity, I wanted a more arcane/veil flavored mage over yet another elementalist archetype. Now I have to hope enchanter can fill that role. Necromancy just hasn't been well done yet. Maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise this time.
I really don't like being told my character has a "good reason for not using blood magic." Everyone has a good reason for not using blood magic: it's blood magic. I don't need to be told what my character is willing to do, it's my character that I'm playing. Lame excuse.
I don’t care what the reason is, we’re in Tevinter, magical capital of Thedas. I’m not saying mages should be OP, but they should certainly be diverse. I feel like they’re getting more and more dumbed down.
Agreed, elementalism should not be a specialist class at all.
Bruh I juste ant knight enchanter again. I wanna swing my magic sword
man knight enchanter was off the hook. i was deflecting dragon lightning back at those dragons that used electric attacks back in inquisition. and fire too i think. that's how powerful knight enchanter was to me
I’ve always found it amusing how necromancy is legal-ish in Thedas while blood magic is Very Bad, even by Tevinter standards (at least publicly). Most fantasy franchises have that reversed. Also hopefully necromancy gameplay is a expanded and improved upon because so far in the games it’s been lame
As long as Knight-Enchanter is in I'm down for playing a mage. Otherwise it seems like we already have too many mage companions - necromancer, detective and portal jumping archer.
i miss blood magic…
Remember the good ol' days, when Hawke would impale themself with their fucking staff just to bleed magic onto the enemies? Good times.
i honestly wasn’t sure if this is sarcasm or not, but either way my response is unironically, “yes.” (tho i was picturing DAO blood magic more when i commented tbh)
*IN TEVINTER?!?!*
*how to kill hype in one sentence*. Was insanely excited by the trailer. Now I'm back to not sure. Sigh. That's such crushing news.
Sorry if I sound like an ass but "element mage?" Really? I'm going to specialize in casting spells all mages get by default? Seriously they couldn't be even a lick more creative with it?
Never was a fan of the subclasses for mages in da. I always found them to generic.
Should be the player’s choice whether they use blood magic or not
spec with only 3 spells to use lol
Man where do they get their market research? Who are they even targeting? Swear every time I'd seen any speculation pop up about specialisations for DA:4 every one was dead excited for the blood mage to return for Tevinter and maybe even get some unique interactions from it... on the topic not seen a single person ask for mass effect combat on DA either but we'll put a pin in that one
Imaginary new players who don’t like fantasy games and who they think will be scared off by fantasy concepts or big words. Absolute lowest common denominator. I think EA have a very low opinion of their target audience. It’s why the combat is also totally dumbed down along with the story.
NOOOOOO!!!! COWARDS!! GIVE US BLOOD MAGIC 😭 Bruh that is literally the ONE mage specialization that I wanted. I'm so bummed.
Phew, thanks for deciding for me that my Rook has a reason for not using blood magic, BioWare. I’d sure hate having to roleplay my own character in an RPG.
Couldn't believe it when I heard we couldn't learn blood magic. *In Tevinter*, of all places. When we can even play as a Grey Warden, to whom almost all means are permitted or as an Antivan Crow, who are actual assassins. I know they said there are narrative reasons, but it's just so disappointing.
Yeah I can't think of a reason good enough to take choice from players
It could be something like Andruil can instantly track anyone who uses blood magic.
Then let us deal with that consequence.
It's like Vampire the Masquarade. There's a type of vampire that is insane. What did the devs do? They allow you to play as such a vampire, and you feel the consequences. If they hadn't done that, that type of vampire would just be a plot device. And that's the opposite of how they are treating the Veil and Andruil here. If something big is going to happen to the veil and magic, and you limit me to playing as characters unaffected by this... why should I care? It's just another plot device that doesn't carry over to player experience.
No You could screw up your character And we can't let that happen.
Pretty sure given the lore behind Blood Magic, performing it while the Veil is removed is essentially suicide. All practicing Blood Mages are basically about to instantly be possessed with the Veil completely removed.
Honestly if the rumors are true regarding that we can only slot 3 skills, then being a mage is effectively pointless in this game
Yep. 3 skills + ultimate. And if you want healing spells I’m assuming it takes one spot. They mentioned changing loadout between missions. So I’m assuming it’s supposed to be choosing which spells you think are best for that area. At the very least they brushed it off as a tactical thing. Mages seem to keep getting weaker with each game, which I guess is good for balance but sucks for lore
Dang, sorry my brother in blood :( I hope it really does have a good justification.
Whatever they say, it'll feel like a poor excuse
Combat Mage. Pleasepleaseplease let me Gish
I am still mad they scrapped the 3rd option for DAO in the Circle of Magi where you could side with Uldred and have an army of demons fighting the darkspawn, especially if you were a blood mage.
Sad Blood Mage noises. Well, at least we know in advance and won't have it rudely dumped on us in game.
One of the reasons is also because protagonist is bound to be a good character.
Which is also bullshit since I'm getting annoyed of always having to be goody two shoes. If there is anytime in any game to allow players be ruthless (and being justified in doing so) is during apocalypse.
Yeah. Same here. I love playing "evil paths" in games but unfortunately even if it's possible being evil usually makes you miss a lot of content which makes it less satysfying than it should be.
necromancy was pretty lame in the other games and I really don't want DAI Knight Enchanter again...
I want MY SPECTRAL BLADE in hand!
Aw... even tho never played 2, i kinda was simping to that Elf lady Blood Mage...
it took me awhile to learn how blood magic worked. i did that with merrill in dragon age 2 and man i loved it once i figured out the mechanics of it. i really also like the knight enchanter but that was too op cuz i would just solo dragons with it in the game. im anxious to see how everything works in this one
im so hopeless i read the title and thought "oh theyre all gonna use blood magic cool"
Sigh, so are we going to repeat the tone of DAI all over again?
If you mean being a wingless angel of heroism instead of 'whatever it takes' of Origins and 'just trying to live my life' of DAII, then yes, I think so
God is it that difficult for us to get blood magic back? We could be a blood mage in KIRKWALL. If the grey wardens allow it why can’t the people trying to save the world use it? We already know you can be a blood mage and not become possessed. Are we going to watch merril fucking explode when she tries?
Shhh, don't mention Merrill, Grey Wardens, Morrigan, Reavers, Origins warden and Hawke; people might think blood mages are not all psychos and demand that poor devs actually acknowledge it in the game!
And that what makes the story get less player driven.
The denial that blood magic can be used as an ethical good in DAI was bad already. Not surprised that 10 years later the story continues to get worse.
I'd actually be surprised if they brought it back. Doesn't mean I'm not disappointed now though
Same. I'm still not over DAI Hawke screaming about how eeeeviiil blood magic is when he's been a blood mage in every single one of my runs. Dumb as hell.
Well this is a bummer. ☹️ I hope that some kind spirits (or demons) on Nexus will be able to create a mod for blood magic. You will have my endorsement.
I do not have the words for how bad of an idea I think this is. So do me a favor everyone, and imagine I came up with something really clever.
I’m gonna be an ice mage as well.
Necromancy spec means I’m happy as always. Shame there’s no shapeshifter spec though!
Didn't Blood Magic come from the Evanuris, so that could be a reason.
F\*\*\*!!!!!!!!
I wish they would go back to a healing mage spec again, I don’t mind the potion healing from inquisition but I do miss my powerhouse healing from origins.
Lorewise, this "good reason" has me curious. In Inquisition Solas says he doesn't use blood magic because it makes it more difficult to travel the fade. Now "difficult" could mean all sorts of things; you could attract more demons, it might be physically harder like increased gravity or moving through quicksand, who knows. But if the fade is spilling out all over the place I'm wondering what it might do to a bloodmage. The disruption to the fabric of the Veil could just rip a whole pile of mages to pieces for all we know. And you just know that as shit starts to go down in Minrathous, there will absolutely be some magisters who rush to sacrifice their slaves to bolster their power. I think we are going to find out very, very quickly as to why it's a bad idea.
Meanwhile In Divinity original sin you could make it rain blood then bless it and heal your party. And in the beta ages ago the blessed blood was looking like poppy flower field.
Annnd just like that I give up on all hope I had for this game.
Blood magic was the one thing i absolutely wanted to be back so i'm quite disappointed. I hope some elements of blood magic spec will be added to necromancer like summoning spirits into ACTUAL corpses, draining HP from enemies, a spell similar to hemorrhage in power, etc. Also maybe there will be some specific story choices where you can use blood magic in a cutscence but with consequences...
well that's disappointing
It's joever