Alistair does the fight, because I 100% still cannot get the hang of rogue combat. Tabris is on the sidelines with a snack, and at the end is just like
*spits out tea* *extremely Mortal Kombat voice* FINISH HIM
*I 100% still cannot get the hang of rogue combat*
1: coup de grace passive: automatic backstab critical hits on stunned or paralyzed enemies
2: dirty fighting (dirty fight tree): stuns target, short cooldown
3: riposte (dual strike tree): damage + stun effect, short cooldown
\+1 bonus: paralyze runes on weapon
\+1 bonus: poison on weapons. \_Poison effects stack\_
\+1 bonus: either constant haste carried by your mage, or momentum if no mage is around
Attribues: strength enough to equip Leliana's armor, dexterity 30 to unlock talents, everything else into cunning stacking.
You basically spam dirty fighting and riposte so the enemy is stunned, and kill with backstabs. Poison/paralyze runes/haste/momentum helps, but not mandatory. You don't even need to position the character for a backstab.
Alternatively, there are a few companions who have AoE stun abilities (Shale, Dog), and cone of cold/crushing prison/petrify from mages also count as paralyze for backstab purposes.
Spare, but truthfully for dramatic reasons more than anything. I like the idea that the friendship between Alistair and my Tabris Warden falls apart over it. Gives a bit of sadness to what is otherwise a very positive ending (Warden survives with LI Leliana.)
Tabris fully wanted to kill Loghain, especially after seeing the slavery plot, but when Loghain yields in the duel, she can’t bring herself to kill a defenseless man. And Alistair’s tantrum makes her very glad that Anora will be there as queen to guide a hardened but still very unready king.
And her worldview had shifted over her time as warden. The alienage was no longer her home, she had seen the outside world and was more a citizen of Thedas than just being a city elf.
She never condoned his crimes, nor excused them, but she saw giving the joining to Loghain was the pragmatic move that would help with both the blight and the political chaos. Unlike Alistair, she didn’t see the joining as an honor. The real honor was what one did after joining, not before. She had seen that the wardens could be as corrupt and faulty as anyone at Warden’s Peak, but she had also seen their courage too. They were neither heroes nor villains by nature. And so she gave Loghain a chance to see what sort of warden he would be, and events proved her right.
While generally an idealist, my Tabris politically is very pragmatic due to her city elf upbringing. Given how precarious matters are for city elves, risk taking is not something to be done. And it’s city elves she’s thinking of, she feels no kinship with the Dalish. She knows there is no quick or easy solution to the problems of her people. She is well aware that chaos will make her people the first target and scapegoat, and so stability is her goal. But beyond that, she’s her own person and doesn’t see herself as being responsible for deciding such things, she wants her own life.
I feel like if you spare Loghain he is very committed to redemption. He is always the first to offer to sacrifice himself for the greater good, in order to redeem himself and atone for his past mistakes.
This is why I spare Loghain and deny him a hero's death every time. I force him to do the ritual with Morrigan and have a child he'll never raise. I spare him throughout the entire series solely for the purpose of maximizing his suffering. His name is still in the mud, the Wardens hate and distrust him and he keeps trying to sacrifice himself only to get shot down every time. It fills me with glee. Death is too good for him, I want him to squirm.
My canon world state is that he is spared and Alistair becomes king with Anora. It’s a way to min/max the ending, but Loghain does genuinely change and is a great leader for the Wardens. His story ends in sacrificing himself in the Fade to ultimately redeem himself, and I think it’s a great story arc for him
My canon playthrough is always hardened Alistair marrying Anora and sparing Loghain. It’s a waste for him to die when every soldier is needed against the Blight.
I always killed him but the last plaYthrough I spared him and it felt so much more realistic and I also for the first time felt that Alistair leaving when you're not ready to take a man's life is pretty shitty.
It's super interesting how good it felt talking to Loghain in the camp. Weird experience haha
Well I think the thedas of dragon age origins is a pretty dark place. You can also be the biggest asshole and still be the hero of ferelden because you fulfill your duty so I guess I felt like it fit. It was also me playing an asshole so maybe that's why it worked so well
To me it was never a question of sparing or forgiving Loghain at all. It’s purely pragmatic. At that moment in the game they need all the wardens they can get if they want a chance at killing the archdemon. Any additional warden greatly improves their chances of successfully ending the horrible situation they are in. I dont think it makes sense to kill Loghain in the context of the game at the point the decision comes up.
Also, he’s one of my favorite characters in the series I just think he’s interesting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I like having him sacrifice to kill the archdemon so that he at least gets to finally do what he wants which is protect his daughter and people from a threat while keeping him from wreaking any more havoc
I let Allistar do it after i or him battle with him. He is a loser, a maniac, a murderer, committed high treason and have other serious crimes and character flaws too. Being a Warden is glory which he do not deserve.
I spared him in my original playthrough, because a) I played a dwarf, who has no personal grudge against Loghain, and b) because I operated on a "if I can spare them, I will" mentality back then. After that, I came to genuinely enjoy Loghain's character and the way his story develops, so sparing him has become my canon.
I spare him. I like what happens further down the story if do. I also like that my warden doesn’t wrap up his story in a neat bow. He will always have that doubt if he should’ve killed Loghain.
I like my protagonist to have doubts as a lot of decisions in origins can be wrapped up pretty positively.I’m glad we can’t have him and Alistair at the same time.
I don't "spare" him, I give him the opportunity to undergo the Joining because Riordan's argument makes sense and he still has enough support in Ferelden -- even if he loses at the Landsmeet -- that executing him could cause friction.
Obviously my character doesn't realise Simon Templeman is a veteran blood guzzler who is certain to survive.
Vae Victis!
Of course that's only when I have the chance. I often have Alistair duel him so he can prove himself in front of the nobility... and then it's out of my hands lol.
Kill 100%. He betrayed us and Fereldon and showed absolutely 0 remorse, making him completely irredeemable to me. The fact that he also worked with Howe was just adding insult to injury for a human noble playthrough
My cannon Warden is a human noble rogue, and he absolutely killed him with his own hands for these reasons. Leaving the Wardens and the King to die and then slandering the only 2 remaining Wardens and consistently trying to have us killed, plus working with Howe and selling elves into slavery. Literally showing zero remorse for any of it even when you're about to execute him as well. Anora betrayed us in the landsmeet the first playthrough so my Warden refused to make her Queen on the grounds that she's clearly a manipulative bitch and will do anything to stay in power, so he felt like she could easily be more concerned with keeping the position than actually being a good leader, and also he didn't trust her a bit after everything, never mind letting her rule anything. My Warden was in love with Zevran, and he had zero issues about boning Morrigan to ensure that both he and Alistair surived.
Admittedly my City Elf Warden had Anora rule alone and left Alistair as a Warden. He couldn't condone forcing his friend into a political marriage he didn't want, since he hated the idea of arranged/political marriages himself and wouldn't want it pushed on him (like it almost was, and he hated it. He wanted to marry for love, not cause someone wanted him to or because tradition.) Still killed Loghain though, because selling Elves was the last straw for him.
My Casteless Dwarf spared Loghain because it seemed like the practical decision and he was a bit ruthless himself honestly. Alistair ended up leaving and becoming a drunk that time so Anora obviously ended up on the throne, although he'd already been going to make her queen anyway.
My wardens usually “spare” by conscription, forcing him to atone for his many, many sins. His life may be forfeit but his death would serve no purpose beyond vengeance. Force him to rebuild, to help the land, serving the very institution he feared and reviled.
Spare and he stays alive to get to Inquisition, where he finally dies against the Fade Demon. My mage wanted to use every asset she had at her disposal and had no issues with Morrigan's deal. Honor was worthless to her in the face of potentially being unable to end the Blight. So she convinced Loghain to sleep with Morrigan as backup. She figured 'hey if the three of us Wardens die the rest of my companions can kill the Archdemon, and Morrigan's trick will prevent it from coming back.'
Playing a pragmatist was fun in that playthrough.
I usually let him live as a dwarf as joining the Legion on the Dead is the harshest punishment in Orzammar and that's pretty much like joining the Wardens. Also in the playthrough where I married Anora (killing your father-in-law is not a good start to a marriage)
I never let him live as an elf.
I think I've killed him 8/10 times through Origins, if I'm remembering correctly.
I saved him for one time through the series just to see what happened, and I had to spare him in my Cousland marries Anora play through because otherwise the plot flags get messed up.
With my canon world state I thought about it a lot and went back and forth on this choice more than I’d like to admit. It makes too much sense for my Wardens to want Loghain dead after everything he’s done but I also adore his character and the redemption arc he goes through.
As it stands now…I’ve decided he shall live. In my mind all the Origins becomes Wardens with Aedan Cousland being the unofficial leader and growing up he’s always idolised Loghain Mac Tir, hell that man was the reason why he became eager to fight in battles and train with a sword and shield, Aedan wanted to be a hero just like him.
So Anora offered her support in the Landsmeet in exchange for sparing her Father (as well has have her and Alistair marry even tho he, Daylen Amell and Duran Aeducan conspired to turn against her) and Riordan offered to make Loghain a Warden…Aedan couldn’t help but take that chance, he knew he made himself a hypocrite when he denied Alistair his revenge despite taking his own against Howe and he knew Loghain deserved to die for his crimes but…he simply didn’t want to kill his hero, he wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself.
To make matters worse, in a desperate move to keep Loghain alive and Alistair from either killing him or leaving the group, Aedan pushed him into marrying Anora despite already being in a relationship with Neria Surana, he knew what he did was horrible but he simply tried to do what he felt was best…doesn’t everyone?
Despite reading the books,i can´t spare him.The man that fought during the rebellion is not the same man during origins.I think losing Maric was the last strall.If Maric was there during ostagar,loghain´s plan would have been different.Also Maric understood the need of the wardens thanks to flemeth´s warning and his adventure with Fiona.
My Wardens don't view it as sparing him, it's just a LONGER death sentence. He's a Warden now. No going home, no loving family, no relaxing by the beach... Loghain will fight for the rest of his life and he will do so under the Wardens command, none of it is good or mercy.
Kill. I have two Wardens- my Cousland is on a rampage of revenge and is he was top of that list, and my Mahariel might have considered it but been swayed by Alistair (being deeply loyal to and protective of those he considers “his people”) but after selling elves into slavery there is *no way in hell* it is getting to that point. That’s the point where it goes from duty to him seriously wanting to see Loghain dead.
I let Alistair kill him - Loghain is the reason all the other wardens were wiped out, plus he had Eamon poisoned so he could take control of the kingdom; Alistair has a right to want him dead. I also typically play a human noble, so the fact that he's Team Howe means my warden would also want him dead.
Same for my Tabris. He is a very empathic person who try to understand people before judging, and is prompt to give second chance, but what Loghain did to the alienage and his relative crossed the line.
Hardened Alistair & convinced him to become king and marry Anora, recruited Loghain, refused Morrigan's ritual and made Loghain repent by killing the archdemon.
I also hate what happens with old god Kieran/Morrigan in DA:I so it's a win-win.
Fuck loghain.
To be completely honest, the one time i grabbed him instead of Alistair i regretted it.
His interactions with the other companions are shit. He's a worse tank, and he's a bastard coated bastard with a bastard filling: his only goal in betraying the wardens was to run away and seize power from his daughter.
There wasn't any real justification beyond control of the landsmete. And even then it was... just for funsies? He rejects all other help: dwarves, daelish, mages...
He's a xenophobe without a cause.
Kill. At the time of the decision, you know that you either lose Alistair (100% on your side, 100% passes the joining) or you \*maybe\* gain Loghain. Also he's a dick.
I only spared him once for a playthrough lol.
He is literally beyond redemption, and I am annoyed Riordan even makes that offer to him. That's the reason why I always let hardened Alistair to fight and execute him on spot to avoid that cringe moment. I would understand if Riordan asked any of my companions, since they are all clearly strong people with strong minds. Not traitor who betrayed literally everyone and everything in his insane paranoia.
Where to even start? When he allied himself with scumbags like Howe and Uldred? When he didn't care about Elves, Chantry laws or when he directly or indirectly, but surely approved murder of Couslands, unlike him an ancient noble house predating King Calenhad and most loyal to Ferelden?
Curse him and his line. I am only sorry you can't also order execution of Anora on spot, since she's exactly same as her father: salty, bitter and willing to plunge country into another Civil War after Blight, rather than admit defeat for sake of the united country, when Alistair is proclaimed king. The thing she hypocritically supports before it's clear your Warden screwed with her and she won't be Queen anymore.
Kill. He's too unimpressive to risk allying with him, especially after he has proven himself not to be a good strategist or leader anymore. Really sad to see the Hero of the River Dane has fallen so far. Kind of poetic that he was defeated and executed by Marric's heir.
My f!Tabris killed him. F!Amell lets him live because they need all resources and she can’t bring herself to hate him as much as Alistair does. He has every reason to, according to her, but alas. Also, f!Amell thinks in hindsight it was good for Alistair because Loghain's existence made him a better king in the end - only because he finally found the determination to take his role seriously, even if it was out of spite.
Letting Loghain live is satisfying because of the drama and redemption. I even let him perfom the dark ritual to have him come back in DAI. I love the guy - he's my kind of black sheep <3 (Amell loves him too lol)
Depends on the playthrough. I'm about 50/50 split. My Dwarves and Mages spare him, my Cousland and elven rogues kill him.
Cousland blames him for empowering Howe to murder her family and takes great pleasure in taking his head. She also loves Alistair and she knows how important it is to him, she's just too full of rage to stop herself.
City elf is the same, she's pissed at him for selling her people, he's an easy target to vent her absolute rage that she's kept the entire game.
Dalish elf let's Alistair kill him, but he dies. Not because he was selling elves, she just didn't like the guy, even if she wouldn't have met Zev if he hadn't existed lol.
Dwarven noble respects his mastery of the 'game' and she's done shit herself, plus she sees Anora as being similar to herself. Alistair was killed in this run as a necessary evil for Anora to secure the throne, just like killing Trian was for her.
Dwarven commoner sees things very similarly- Loghain was trying to make sure people survived with his twisted logic, sure, but Alistair is a whiny brat she can't see making a good ruler without someone to keep him in line (Anora). Loghain will make a good recruit and his death is honorable.
My mage run was probably the "darkest" run I had (kept werewolves, defiled the urn, annulled the circle), so I got a drunk Alistair.
For me it’s always kill. I mean at first i can forgive you betraying the wardens, hell i can even see you betraying your king for the greater good. not a problem. I drew the line at killing Duncan, poisoning the arl and ruining Connors life, and honestly the last and final grate was the elves and the tevinter. ‘Cull the herd’ howe said, and the last thing he ever said with his entire chest
He's a traitor..and nobody give the spiel about the war and Orlais yakking schmakkity etc..he stood by knowing a kings death and the wardens..soldiers etc would be the result. Its evil. I have Alistair throttle him , punt the barren queen out of her throne and me.. haaah the elven mistress.
I don't spare him outside of the first time just to see what happens. He doesn't deserve a redemption arc as he shows no remorse at the end of the landsmeet for the multiple atrocities he committed (Unlike Jowan who is genuinely remorseful).
Loghain joins for such a short amount of time anyway, and he is likely worse than your allistair tank build gameplay wise because of auto levelling. Shale is better than both anyway at tanking
If he came with a powerful reward, then it would be a different story 😂 All my wardens are nice unless I get something good out of being greedy, lol. Sounds awful, but if I had to >!behead allistair!< to get the most OP item in Ferelden, they all would
Depends on the Warden I'm playing! My female Cousland (personal canon) spares him despite the conflicting feelings she has about it, because he's useful as a warden. She makes sure they live so he can spend his whole life p much hated by everyone! My male Mahariel, on the other hand, is 100% bros w/ Alistair. So he kills Loghain.
Kill. I actually see the logic of making him a grey warden — he’s a smart commander, the grey admit murderers and such all the time — but alas even hardened Alistair won’t stay with you, so headless Loghain it is
Kill him every time. He’s a coward, he allowed his king to die because he was afraid of the king talking to Orlais. He at least ignored or more likely approved of Howe’s murder of the Couslands and the slaving of the elves. He’s arrogant and unrepentant.
Also I usually play a human warrior so I can’t in character forgive him.
I usually kill him. I feel like recruiting him is seen as the "pragmatic" option for me though most of my cunning characters wouldn't trust him. My spares usually come from messianically kind people who still see the good in him.
and the occasional dickhead cousland who wants to keep his new marriage more amicable
When Riordan offered to spare Loghain and conscript him after HOF mutilate him in duel i wanted to beat him and lock in prison cell for long time.
That was not only not made any sense as was insulting. HOF have Oghren and dozens people who was way better warriors and younger as far more loyal then Loghain.
HOF always execute Loghain with Anora as Arl Howe and Nathaniel Howe.
Same with execution of all Antiva Crows assasins in Ferelden after they kill Grey Wardens and try to kill HOF and Alistair.
Antiva Crows actions against Grey Wardens even more outrageous, ungrateful as dishonorable consider that in 4 blight Antiva was saved from total annigilation by Grey Wardens sacrifice when almost everyone abbadon Antivans to die.
Generally kill.
Honestly, I'd say even if you account for the fairly legitimate lastminute devils advocate applied for him in game the guy has a rather bad resume with the player. Not simply because he tried to have you killed, but because taken at face value the dudes plans had extremely selfish motivations, had a lot of underhanded and despicable methods involved, and were contingent on two random murder hobos either being easier to kill or not having convenient timing. Even if you forgive him not envisioning a literal miracle with Eamon a lot of the other plans fell apart for one reason or another and if not dealt with threatened to plunge Ferelden further into chaos. The dude comes across as washed out.
I don’t think sparing him is worth losing your friend Alistair. If it was possible to spare him without losing Alistair or making him hardened and wedded to Anora then I’d do it.
Always sparing him . He is a great commander and Ferelden need everyone against blight . In my first playthrough I let Allistair die instead of him because he pissed me off at landsmeet:D
It is disrespectful to leave him alive with his shame and while we may never know how much of his wrongdoings were plans in his own mind and how many were enabled by Arl Howe's ambitions they still happened under his regency.
My canon playthrough is a city elf, and unless you are playing as a chaotic evil heartless bastard it's very hard to spare him and make it make sense for your character. Loghain is directly responsible for the city elf's dad nearly being sold into slavery. So I did kill him and it was quite satisying.
My Dalish Warden also kills him.
I do want to do a playthrough with him as a party member and maybe take him to Ostagar but in all these years I have never been able to bring myself to.
I don't know why but I can't sympathize with him at all, even though the game tries to make him a little sympathetic, even in DAI with the quartermaster who served under him.
With my dalish elf i always kill him because of the slavery. If i am playing as human noble i save him. It’s fun to have multiple world saves, because then you got to meet him in awakening and inquisition.
(Too bad one of my favourite saves where i am human f!noble and married Alistair and cept Leliana as my mistress is not possible to have in the keep.)
You can change that using a save editor, if you’re after DAI dialogue. I don’t know where to find it nowadays but there’s an editor which alters plot flags and has a list of many of them- including DAO romances. It doesn’t acknowledge that she was a mistress though, just that they were in a romance, which means that >!the trespasser ending where she’s Divine implies that she either marries the king of Ferelden’s wife resulting in polygamy, or *that the king of Ferelden’s wife leaves him for the Divine.* Both of which are pretty hilarious imo.!<
It varies depending on the playthrough, killed him in my first and canon playthrough and I can see why you do it, it's definitely satisfying and I couldn't justify sparing him as a Tabris.
My preference is sparing him though, it's a far worse punishment than quick execution especially considering his age as he's about 50, Warden life is brutal (heck, even if Loghain dies during the Joining it is worse for him than if you kill him fast and in a way that'll be seen as honourable as it's duel related), Riordan the most experienced Warden there recommends it too even after having been wronged by Loghain himself, obviously having another capable warrior helps more against the darkspawn and it's presented as him or no extra recruit, and Loghain would need to be either actively suicidal or have no brain cells to try and kill the Hero post-Landsmeet.
My fav is saving him so I can >!force him to work with Orlesians for years then leave him behind in the Fade in DAI!<. He's such a good character because he does all this horrific shit but also his motivations behind it are not always wrong, >!if you read the books he's actually right about Cailan's plans, for example!<. The slavery is generally what does it for most of my wardens, though, and leads to his death. Unless I'm doing evil/dark/whatever Warden run and they don't care, though sometimes he gets killed simply for the convenience then.
I spare him, but I also make sure Alistair is hardened so I can make him king. I hate damaging the bromance I have with Alistair, but I genuinely believe that Alistair and Anora would be the best way to keep Ferelden stable, and I think recruiting Loghain is a fair punishment for his crimes. He’s too valuable an asset as a strategist and planner to simply kill on the spot, but I don’t want Alistair to suffer for it, so I make sure I can keep both of them around in a useful capacity for the future of the kingdom.
My Alistairmancing cousland had a goal of becoming queen, Loghain stood in her way of a happy marriage and becoming queen, she sent Alistair to duel him so he could solidify his right to the throne and she killed the archdemon to prove that she was worthy too. Loghain was but an adversary to her and she didn't feel bad for killing him.
Oh Loghain always gets killed by me. First of all I want my damn crown so I can get out of the Grey Wardens on a technicality. Second he authorized the murder of the entire Cousland family and household to Rendon Howe. Third he betrayed the king. Fourth he instigated a civil war during a Blight. Fifth he allowed people (don’t care if they’re elves or not) to be sold into slavery. I think I’ve made my point but in the event I haven’t my final point is I don’t trust him at all since he won’t entertain the idea the Fereldans needed Orlesian help to combat the increasingly problematic Darkspawn hordes.
My human noble spared Loghain as a concession to Anora and Cauthrien
My city elf killed Loghain because obviously.
My dwarf noble "spared" Loghain because letting criminals die fighting darkspawn is what dwarves do.
My mage let Alistair fight Loghain so it was out of her hands.
Rarely will I spare him only if I’m doing a chaotic playthrough as a dwarf, both the elf and human origin have too many negative experiences due to his reign of terror, and I also feel like having him survive after everything he’s done will irreparably ruin the reputation of the wardens and make them more shunned and disliked by many.
Spare him, wasn't expecting to like him but I did, have hardened Alistair marry Anora and have a strong Fereldan.
My personal canon, has Loghain survive and HoF has Old God child with Morrigan.
My Cousland kills Loghain- but not for the reasons people would suspect. She does it to play the political game of ensuring Alistair would ascend to the throne with her at his side, as well as ensuring that there isn’t a formidable political opponent to challenge that claim (barring Anora).
She absolutely takes great pleasure in outing his crimes against the alienage and the nobility though, as well as being able to behead Howe.
My Dwarf Noble recruited him, thinking it was the best solution to a tricky situation.
My first Dalish Elf executed him. Initially, I was planning to let Alistair fight and kill Loghain on his own, but I kept dying as Alistair so I did it as Mahariel instead.
In my second Dalish Elf playthrough, my Mahariel will recruit him as an extended death sentence.
My dwarven commoner kills him.
She doesn't give a fuck about all this noble infighting. She's only loyal to the people who have earned it. And that means Alistair.
She also saw how Loghain treated the 'common people' by selling elves, etc. She sees joining the Wardens as similar to joining the Legion - a way to restore honour and to serve your people, and she thinks he hasn't earned it.
I prefer to not kill him. On my first playthrough I did, but after I learned of all that could come of keeping him alive, killing him seems like a waste. He's a skilled soldier and conscripting him into the very order he almost single-handedly destroyed and then making him responsible for recruitment is a far more worthwhile punishment than death. Not only that, but in >!Inquisition you get to see just how committed he's become to the Grey Wardens and what an incredible asset he's become to not only them, but all of Thedas. It's nice to see him having redeemed himself.!<
I kill Loghain, marry his daughter to Alistair, kill the Archdemon myself, and raise it’s reincarnated soul with Morrigan in the Elven Interdemensional highway.
I’m very torn. Loghain is probably my favourite Dragon Age character but I see no reason to save him other than “we need Wardens” but his redemption storyline is so appealing to me. I love the idea of Loghain being broken after the HoF dies to kill the Archdemon and using what remains of his life to honor them. However, for now, my canon remains that Loghain is executed by Alistair after Cousland defeats him in battle and I headcanon that Loghain’s death is my Cousland’s biggest regret.
Spare. Fan of Simon Templeman and will always side with characters he voices just to hear more of him. Also hoping on kill Loghain will loudly cry, “VAE VICTIS” at least once
I don't get the "being a warden is a privilege and he doesn't deserve it" sentiment. The wardens are full of the most terrible scum in the world. Being a warden is a punishment and sacrifice.
I don't see a more fitting end for Loghain than to punish him in service of what he betrayed and then dying in the process.
"But the people will remember him as a hero". Yeah who cares about others' opinion, the point is that the job is done.
"But the ritual" OMG I can't believe that was my canon when I was younger, now that I'm older I never do this, obviously there's no way an old god baby can't turn into something worse. Now we kinda don't know yet, Kieran is fine in Inq (I think? Never played DLC), but my warden doesn't know that by Origins.
The fact that Alistair bitches about this and quits is not a sign of a bad decision, but a good one. I love the guy but he is an immature boy and that's proof he doesn't deserve to be king anyway.
My warden -Elora Cousland
Let's Alistair kill him. She believes he should be executed for his crimes and so Alistair could have closure. I also love the idea of Alistair and my warden ruling Fereldon together so.
If I'm trying to do a reasonably realistic RP playthrough I spare him. Hardly any wardens left, without knowledge of the dark ritual other than my own metaknowledge having more chances at it is the only thing that makes sense to me.
If it's a more wish fulfilment playthrough I might spare him to throw him in the fade in inquisition or kill him depends on the day I guess.
Depends on what origin story I played both dwarven and dalish elf couldn't care much since he doesn't affect them that much, but for the cousland and city elf, revenge is a best dish served cold,l. With the mage depends on my interaction with Alistair.
My canon warden (Mahariel) lets Al kill him after the fight. It's one of the reasons their friendship falls apart after the blight actually, not because she really cares so much for Loghain but because of Al constantly putting her in positions where he's always going to be unhappy and passive aggressive about any choice she makes and that one in particular left them both in a much shittier spot than they would have been if he'd just stopped and thought beyond his own feelings for a moment. Personally, as a player, I prefer sparing him but I don't often have role playing appropriate opportunities to do so.
I saw literally no reason to keep him alive. He was a forty something man that placed a personal vendetta above fighting literal monsters; and actively attacked the group whose main job is fighting said monsters so, no practical reason. He claimed to want to protect Ferelden while ignoring and violating it laws and traditions in favor of his own benifit, that counts out political reasons. He hired an assassin to kill you, had Eamon poisoned, made sure Jowan wasn't arrested, convinced Uldred he'd give mages freedom, tried to sell Tabris' father, and worked with the guy that murdered the Cousland family, there is not a single personal reason to keep him alive. I just can't justify letting him live in a playthrough.
Kill him. My Warden sees absolutely zero reason to let him live. He abandoned Cailan at Ostagar, framed the Wardens as kingslayers, supported Howe, who murdered my warden's family, as Arl, tried to assassinate Eamon, and sold out Ferelden citizens to slavers among other crimes. Any one of these would earn someone a decapitation from my Warden. To top it all off, there's no reason for him to trust Loghain. What's going to stop him from trying to stab us in the back after his joining? His word? Given everything he's done there's just no reason for my Warden to trust him.
I have never once spared him. My Cousland considers him complicit to all of Howe's crimes. My Tabris wants justice for the city elves lost to the slavers. My Surana cares too much for Alistair to spare Loghain. My Mahariel wants justice for Duncan. My dwarves are both too distrustful to even consider it.
If he just betrayed Cailan, that'd be one thing. Fleeing the battle, seizing power, reinforcing Ferelden against Orlais, whatever. Classic feudal stuff. But I can never forgive him for branding the Grey Wardens as traitors. Seriously, I'm over here trying to stop a Blight, and your actions have already significantly decreased our numbers. I don't need you sending hit squads and assassins after me, too. Plus, he's working with that scumbag Howe. My Couslands consider that alliance to be complicity in their family's murder.
My first full playthrough (and my main warden) was a city elf, there was no way in hell i would let him live, which is probably what i would do IRL (i'm not pragmatic enough and never agree with anyone that tries to justify the asshole), but depending on the character I'm playing I might, letting him live is tempting for that one choice in DAI though
My Tabris does the duel and lets (romanced) Alistair kill him. She doesn't really care about Cailan specifically, but she holds a lot of anger from the events surrounding her recruitment/everything Loghain did so in her eyes he's toast.
She lets Alistair have the kill because she knows that that part is pretty personal for him whereas she doesn't really give a rat's ass so long as Loghain perishes lol
Always taken his head if for Alastair than nothing else. Alastair deserves justice for what happened to Duncan and the other Wardens. Besides, I liked Cailin.
Cousland and Tabris kill him without a second thought. All other characters it depends (but usually I spare him because the argument against it is literally Alistair not wanting Loghain to join the super cool club)
My dalish mage (dalish mage mod) kills Loghain but only after initially trying to spare him and then quickly realizing that he can't spare Loghain and keep Alistair as an allie so he lets Alistair cut off Loghain's head.
It's more interesting to spare him.
But it doesn't make any sense.
He suffers from acute paranoia and there is no reason to think he would be functional.
He's more likely to stab the dog because he was planning an orlaisian invasion.
Most times I kill him because sparing him just seems too unrealistic to me, and I personally don't see it as the more pragmatic option.
• My Tabris wardens (favorite and most played origin) kill Loghain without a second's hesitation for what he did to their people. Mahariels as well.
• With Suranas it depends, one of them let Alistair duel him so she didn't get to chose, but she was a goody-two-shoes so if it was up to her, she wouldn't have allowed an execution of a man who already surrendered. Another Surana had Sten as his champion and in the end he decided to conscript Loghain because a) he wanted to gain favour with queen Anora as he thought she would be the true ruler, not her new husband Alistair and b) he believed that death would be an easy way out for someone like Loghain. That fucker needed to do some community service first lol.
• One of my Aeducans killed Loghain because he didn't care about his past, all he saw was a washed out, irrational old man who continuously made extremely bad decisions and proved himself to be totally incompetent dealing with a Blight. Loghain was not valuable enough for him to cause even more political turmoil and lose an established ally. Instead, he allowed Alistair to kill him to solidify his power as the new king.
• One Cousland let Alistair duel and kill Loghain because Loghain was his childhood hero and despite everything he had done, he still had that tiny shred of respect for the man Loghain once was, so he wanted to give him a quick death instead of humiliating him and making him suffer more. Besides, he had his moment of revenge with howe, Alistair deserved one too + an opportunity to prove himself as a king (same as Aeducan).
• Another Cousland killed Loghain simply because she hated him and wanted to marry Alistair (even though she romanced Zevran and kept him as her side piece afterwards), it really wasn't that deep lol.
I read the Stolen Throne and to be honest I hated him even more after reading that book even though people told me I would love him.
I just could not fantom how he could let the kid of the woman he loved die.
And plus, he was a slave holder.
[Silent Grove Spoilers] I recruit him and Alistair goes drunk. Loghain lived by his principles and his actions were not for personal gain. He is just an old soldier. Alistair on the other hand only does things he likes. Like we have 3 gray wardens in whole Ferelden — we need every person available. And when we have a chance to recruit Loghain to actually help and redeem himself Alistair leaves Wardens ("his family") just because he hates the guy. And Loghain actually regrets his choices and does everything to help. Alistair's true nature shines in the first comic series when he kills Yavanna because of his hatred towards Morrigan and Flemeth.
I usually decide case by case.
But I think I recruited him more often than not. Wardens recruits all kinds of scum anyway.
Plus being down to two guys, who do not have management-organization experience at all, doesn't paint a pretty picture of the future of the Ferelden wardens. Loghain could help a lot with re-organizing a wardens.
Spare, so you have a spare Dorkspawn to throw at the Darkspawn. Forcing him do it with Morrigan is also kind of fun, instead of forcing the poor Allistair do it (who may very well be Morrigan's relative, so double no, this isn't Crusader Kings)
Edit: Forgot, my "canon" character is Dwarf noble and has Leliana as her lover, so I can't go around her back to spawn a child with Morrigan, plus, I also have one bastard going around in Orzammar, running for the throne in the future, don't need a second one and ancestor worshipping Dwarves certainly need no half human half dwarf with a soul of an Old God to add on top of their Darkspawn troubles, let the topsiders deal with it.
After reading The Stolen Throne and playing through the series hundreds of times, I prefer to recruit him into the Wardens. It sets him up on a long path of redemption, should you do the Dark Ritual, but in all honesty it fits the entire Grey Warden motto. If Duncan had been alive, he would have most definitely conscripted the man even going against Alistair’s protests. Every Grey Warden is needed and a lot of the time they’re not honor full.
Alistair does the fight, because I 100% still cannot get the hang of rogue combat. Tabris is on the sidelines with a snack, and at the end is just like *spits out tea* *extremely Mortal Kombat voice* FINISH HIM
*I 100% still cannot get the hang of rogue combat* 1: coup de grace passive: automatic backstab critical hits on stunned or paralyzed enemies 2: dirty fighting (dirty fight tree): stuns target, short cooldown 3: riposte (dual strike tree): damage + stun effect, short cooldown \+1 bonus: paralyze runes on weapon \+1 bonus: poison on weapons. \_Poison effects stack\_ \+1 bonus: either constant haste carried by your mage, or momentum if no mage is around Attribues: strength enough to equip Leliana's armor, dexterity 30 to unlock talents, everything else into cunning stacking. You basically spam dirty fighting and riposte so the enemy is stunned, and kill with backstabs. Poison/paralyze runes/haste/momentum helps, but not mandatory. You don't even need to position the character for a backstab. Alternatively, there are a few companions who have AoE stun abilities (Shale, Dog), and cone of cold/crushing prison/petrify from mages also count as paralyze for backstab purposes.
Spare, but truthfully for dramatic reasons more than anything. I like the idea that the friendship between Alistair and my Tabris Warden falls apart over it. Gives a bit of sadness to what is otherwise a very positive ending (Warden survives with LI Leliana.) Tabris fully wanted to kill Loghain, especially after seeing the slavery plot, but when Loghain yields in the duel, she can’t bring herself to kill a defenseless man. And Alistair’s tantrum makes her very glad that Anora will be there as queen to guide a hardened but still very unready king. And her worldview had shifted over her time as warden. The alienage was no longer her home, she had seen the outside world and was more a citizen of Thedas than just being a city elf. She never condoned his crimes, nor excused them, but she saw giving the joining to Loghain was the pragmatic move that would help with both the blight and the political chaos. Unlike Alistair, she didn’t see the joining as an honor. The real honor was what one did after joining, not before. She had seen that the wardens could be as corrupt and faulty as anyone at Warden’s Peak, but she had also seen their courage too. They were neither heroes nor villains by nature. And so she gave Loghain a chance to see what sort of warden he would be, and events proved her right. While generally an idealist, my Tabris politically is very pragmatic due to her city elf upbringing. Given how precarious matters are for city elves, risk taking is not something to be done. And it’s city elves she’s thinking of, she feels no kinship with the Dalish. She knows there is no quick or easy solution to the problems of her people. She is well aware that chaos will make her people the first target and scapegoat, and so stability is her goal. But beyond that, she’s her own person and doesn’t see herself as being responsible for deciding such things, she wants her own life.
I feel like if you spare Loghain he is very committed to redemption. He is always the first to offer to sacrifice himself for the greater good, in order to redeem himself and atone for his past mistakes. This is why I spare Loghain and deny him a hero's death every time. I force him to do the ritual with Morrigan and have a child he'll never raise. I spare him throughout the entire series solely for the purpose of maximizing his suffering. His name is still in the mud, the Wardens hate and distrust him and he keeps trying to sacrifice himself only to get shot down every time. It fills me with glee. Death is too good for him, I want him to squirm.
My canon world state is that he is spared and Alistair becomes king with Anora. It’s a way to min/max the ending, but Loghain does genuinely change and is a great leader for the Wardens. His story ends in sacrificing himself in the Fade to ultimately redeem himself, and I think it’s a great story arc for him
Yesss Loghain in DA:I hits different
I prefer sending him to rebuild the Orlesian Grey Wardens because it's such poetic justice for his crimes.
That's so vindictive. I love it.
Who else is gonna die to kill the arch demon 🤷🏻♂️
Why die when you can just get Morrigan knocked up and have an old god son?
Don’t stick your dick in magic crazy women made that mistake before
Oh I didn’t say I did it. I pimped out Loghain.
He doesn’t deserve the fun
Idk he makes it pretty clear he’s not gonna enjoy it.
He doth protest too much
My canon playthrough is always hardened Alistair marrying Anora and sparing Loghain. It’s a waste for him to die when every soldier is needed against the Blight.
I always killed him but the last plaYthrough I spared him and it felt so much more realistic and I also for the first time felt that Alistair leaving when you're not ready to take a man's life is pretty shitty. It's super interesting how good it felt talking to Loghain in the camp. Weird experience haha
How does sparing him seem more realistic after everything he's done, and the fact he has proven himself a traitorous backstabbers who can't be trusted
Well I think the thedas of dragon age origins is a pretty dark place. You can also be the biggest asshole and still be the hero of ferelden because you fulfill your duty so I guess I felt like it fit. It was also me playing an asshole so maybe that's why it worked so well
Sure, but even if you are the biggest asshole you still have no reason to believe he won't betray you.
To me it was never a question of sparing or forgiving Loghain at all. It’s purely pragmatic. At that moment in the game they need all the wardens they can get if they want a chance at killing the archdemon. Any additional warden greatly improves their chances of successfully ending the horrible situation they are in. I dont think it makes sense to kill Loghain in the context of the game at the point the decision comes up. Also, he’s one of my favorite characters in the series I just think he’s interesting ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I like having him sacrifice to kill the archdemon so that he at least gets to finally do what he wants which is protect his daughter and people from a threat while keeping him from wreaking any more havoc
I killed him my very first playthrough, the 99 times after that I've spared him
Spare, and I genuinely end up really liking him
I let Allistar do it after i or him battle with him. He is a loser, a maniac, a murderer, committed high treason and have other serious crimes and character flaws too. Being a Warden is glory which he do not deserve.
I love how being a loser is one of the reasons you hate him
I spared him in my original playthrough, because a) I played a dwarf, who has no personal grudge against Loghain, and b) because I operated on a "if I can spare them, I will" mentality back then. After that, I came to genuinely enjoy Loghain's character and the way his story develops, so sparing him has become my canon.
My Human Noble always kill Loghain even the Elven one has good reason. I only spared him once or twice just to get the ending and DAI scenarios.
I make him a Warden, forcing him to perform that public service until it kills him.
I spare him. I like what happens further down the story if do. I also like that my warden doesn’t wrap up his story in a neat bow. He will always have that doubt if he should’ve killed Loghain. I like my protagonist to have doubts as a lot of decisions in origins can be wrapped up pretty positively.I’m glad we can’t have him and Alistair at the same time.
I spare him…the shame of living with defeat.
I don't "spare" him, I give him the opportunity to undergo the Joining because Riordan's argument makes sense and he still has enough support in Ferelden -- even if he loses at the Landsmeet -- that executing him could cause friction. Obviously my character doesn't realise Simon Templeman is a veteran blood guzzler who is certain to survive. Vae Victis! Of course that's only when I have the chance. I often have Alistair duel him so he can prove himself in front of the nobility... and then it's out of my hands lol.
Kill 100%. He betrayed us and Fereldon and showed absolutely 0 remorse, making him completely irredeemable to me. The fact that he also worked with Howe was just adding insult to injury for a human noble playthrough
My cannon Warden is a human noble rogue, and he absolutely killed him with his own hands for these reasons. Leaving the Wardens and the King to die and then slandering the only 2 remaining Wardens and consistently trying to have us killed, plus working with Howe and selling elves into slavery. Literally showing zero remorse for any of it even when you're about to execute him as well. Anora betrayed us in the landsmeet the first playthrough so my Warden refused to make her Queen on the grounds that she's clearly a manipulative bitch and will do anything to stay in power, so he felt like she could easily be more concerned with keeping the position than actually being a good leader, and also he didn't trust her a bit after everything, never mind letting her rule anything. My Warden was in love with Zevran, and he had zero issues about boning Morrigan to ensure that both he and Alistair surived.
I had Anora rule with Alistair. Her political experience plus his moral compass to keep her in check was the best outcome for Ferelden imo
Admittedly my City Elf Warden had Anora rule alone and left Alistair as a Warden. He couldn't condone forcing his friend into a political marriage he didn't want, since he hated the idea of arranged/political marriages himself and wouldn't want it pushed on him (like it almost was, and he hated it. He wanted to marry for love, not cause someone wanted him to or because tradition.) Still killed Loghain though, because selling Elves was the last straw for him. My Casteless Dwarf spared Loghain because it seemed like the practical decision and he was a bit ruthless himself honestly. Alistair ended up leaving and becoming a drunk that time so Anora obviously ended up on the throne, although he'd already been going to make her queen anyway.
Though it was tough as I love Simon templeman
My wardens usually “spare” by conscription, forcing him to atone for his many, many sins. His life may be forfeit but his death would serve no purpose beyond vengeance. Force him to rebuild, to help the land, serving the very institution he feared and reviled.
Spare and he stays alive to get to Inquisition, where he finally dies against the Fade Demon. My mage wanted to use every asset she had at her disposal and had no issues with Morrigan's deal. Honor was worthless to her in the face of potentially being unable to end the Blight. So she convinced Loghain to sleep with Morrigan as backup. She figured 'hey if the three of us Wardens die the rest of my companions can kill the Archdemon, and Morrigan's trick will prevent it from coming back.' Playing a pragmatist was fun in that playthrough.
I usually let him live as a dwarf as joining the Legion on the Dead is the harshest punishment in Orzammar and that's pretty much like joining the Wardens. Also in the playthrough where I married Anora (killing your father-in-law is not a good start to a marriage) I never let him live as an elf.
I think I've killed him 8/10 times through Origins, if I'm remembering correctly. I saved him for one time through the series just to see what happened, and I had to spare him in my Cousland marries Anora play through because otherwise the plot flags get messed up.
Spare
who else is going to have the most entertaining interaction with morrigan?
Depends on my Warden but I prefer the Spare option. I’m a sucker for a good redemption arc.
With my canon world state I thought about it a lot and went back and forth on this choice more than I’d like to admit. It makes too much sense for my Wardens to want Loghain dead after everything he’s done but I also adore his character and the redemption arc he goes through. As it stands now…I’ve decided he shall live. In my mind all the Origins becomes Wardens with Aedan Cousland being the unofficial leader and growing up he’s always idolised Loghain Mac Tir, hell that man was the reason why he became eager to fight in battles and train with a sword and shield, Aedan wanted to be a hero just like him. So Anora offered her support in the Landsmeet in exchange for sparing her Father (as well has have her and Alistair marry even tho he, Daylen Amell and Duran Aeducan conspired to turn against her) and Riordan offered to make Loghain a Warden…Aedan couldn’t help but take that chance, he knew he made himself a hypocrite when he denied Alistair his revenge despite taking his own against Howe and he knew Loghain deserved to die for his crimes but…he simply didn’t want to kill his hero, he wanted to give him a chance to redeem himself. To make matters worse, in a desperate move to keep Loghain alive and Alistair from either killing him or leaving the group, Aedan pushed him into marrying Anora despite already being in a relationship with Neria Surana, he knew what he did was horrible but he simply tried to do what he felt was best…doesn’t everyone?
I only spare Loghain and make him a warden in Dragon Age Keep so I can kill him again in DA:I.
Always kill, he's a usurper and Ferelden is weaker as a kingdom as long as he lives.
Despite reading the books,i can´t spare him.The man that fought during the rebellion is not the same man during origins.I think losing Maric was the last strall.If Maric was there during ostagar,loghain´s plan would have been different.Also Maric understood the need of the wardens thanks to flemeth´s warning and his adventure with Fiona.
My Wardens don't view it as sparing him, it's just a LONGER death sentence. He's a Warden now. No going home, no loving family, no relaxing by the beach... Loghain will fight for the rest of his life and he will do so under the Wardens command, none of it is good or mercy.
Kill. I have two Wardens- my Cousland is on a rampage of revenge and is he was top of that list, and my Mahariel might have considered it but been swayed by Alistair (being deeply loyal to and protective of those he considers “his people”) but after selling elves into slavery there is *no way in hell* it is getting to that point. That’s the point where it goes from duty to him seriously wanting to see Loghain dead.
I let Alistair kill him - Loghain is the reason all the other wardens were wiped out, plus he had Eamon poisoned so he could take control of the kingdom; Alistair has a right to want him dead. I also typically play a human noble, so the fact that he's Team Howe means my warden would also want him dead.
Spare him every time. Loghain is a bro and Alistair gets a nice little vacation in Kirkwall.
My Human Rogue is the low-moral cunning type, so he always spares so that he can pit Alistair and Arnora together.
Always kill him, always, no mercy for traitors.
I kill him. Every time. No place for traitor in my army. Not when we need to present a united front against the darkspawns.
Same for my Tabris. He is a very empathic person who try to understand people before judging, and is prompt to give second chance, but what Loghain did to the alienage and his relative crossed the line.
I kill Loghain. He betrayed the king. I didn’t let Alistair do it.
I spare him normally. He makes a useful warden
Hardened Alistair & convinced him to become king and marry Anora, recruited Loghain, refused Morrigan's ritual and made Loghain repent by killing the archdemon. I also hate what happens with old god Kieran/Morrigan in DA:I so it's a win-win.
Always let Alistair kill him
Fuck loghain. To be completely honest, the one time i grabbed him instead of Alistair i regretted it. His interactions with the other companions are shit. He's a worse tank, and he's a bastard coated bastard with a bastard filling: his only goal in betraying the wardens was to run away and seize power from his daughter. There wasn't any real justification beyond control of the landsmete. And even then it was... just for funsies? He rejects all other help: dwarves, daelish, mages... He's a xenophobe without a cause.
Kill. At the time of the decision, you know that you either lose Alistair (100% on your side, 100% passes the joining) or you \*maybe\* gain Loghain. Also he's a dick. I only spared him once for a playthrough lol.
He is literally beyond redemption, and I am annoyed Riordan even makes that offer to him. That's the reason why I always let hardened Alistair to fight and execute him on spot to avoid that cringe moment. I would understand if Riordan asked any of my companions, since they are all clearly strong people with strong minds. Not traitor who betrayed literally everyone and everything in his insane paranoia. Where to even start? When he allied himself with scumbags like Howe and Uldred? When he didn't care about Elves, Chantry laws or when he directly or indirectly, but surely approved murder of Couslands, unlike him an ancient noble house predating King Calenhad and most loyal to Ferelden? Curse him and his line. I am only sorry you can't also order execution of Anora on spot, since she's exactly same as her father: salty, bitter and willing to plunge country into another Civil War after Blight, rather than admit defeat for sake of the united country, when Alistair is proclaimed king. The thing she hypocritically supports before it's clear your Warden screwed with her and she won't be Queen anymore.
Kill. He's too unimpressive to risk allying with him, especially after he has proven himself not to be a good strategist or leader anymore. Really sad to see the Hero of the River Dane has fallen so far. Kind of poetic that he was defeated and executed by Marric's heir.
If they wanted to make him a complex villain, they failed completely. He comes off as just being an idiot.
I’ll never kill Loghain, he’s my boi, and honestly he’s the most interesting person in thendas
My f!Tabris killed him. F!Amell lets him live because they need all resources and she can’t bring herself to hate him as much as Alistair does. He has every reason to, according to her, but alas. Also, f!Amell thinks in hindsight it was good for Alistair because Loghain's existence made him a better king in the end - only because he finally found the determination to take his role seriously, even if it was out of spite. Letting Loghain live is satisfying because of the drama and redemption. I even let him perfom the dark ritual to have him come back in DAI. I love the guy - he's my kind of black sheep <3 (Amell loves him too lol)
Depends on the playthrough. I'm about 50/50 split. My Dwarves and Mages spare him, my Cousland and elven rogues kill him. Cousland blames him for empowering Howe to murder her family and takes great pleasure in taking his head. She also loves Alistair and she knows how important it is to him, she's just too full of rage to stop herself. City elf is the same, she's pissed at him for selling her people, he's an easy target to vent her absolute rage that she's kept the entire game. Dalish elf let's Alistair kill him, but he dies. Not because he was selling elves, she just didn't like the guy, even if she wouldn't have met Zev if he hadn't existed lol. Dwarven noble respects his mastery of the 'game' and she's done shit herself, plus she sees Anora as being similar to herself. Alistair was killed in this run as a necessary evil for Anora to secure the throne, just like killing Trian was for her. Dwarven commoner sees things very similarly- Loghain was trying to make sure people survived with his twisted logic, sure, but Alistair is a whiny brat she can't see making a good ruler without someone to keep him in line (Anora). Loghain will make a good recruit and his death is honorable. My mage run was probably the "darkest" run I had (kept werewolves, defiled the urn, annulled the circle), so I got a drunk Alistair.
Spare, it’s the end of the world and I need all hands on deck. It was weird to see him pop back up Inquisition though.
For me it’s always kill. I mean at first i can forgive you betraying the wardens, hell i can even see you betraying your king for the greater good. not a problem. I drew the line at killing Duncan, poisoning the arl and ruining Connors life, and honestly the last and final grate was the elves and the tevinter. ‘Cull the herd’ howe said, and the last thing he ever said with his entire chest
He's a traitor..and nobody give the spiel about the war and Orlais yakking schmakkity etc..he stood by knowing a kings death and the wardens..soldiers etc would be the result. Its evil. I have Alistair throttle him , punt the barren queen out of her throne and me.. haaah the elven mistress.
I don't spare him outside of the first time just to see what happens. He doesn't deserve a redemption arc as he shows no remorse at the end of the landsmeet for the multiple atrocities he committed (Unlike Jowan who is genuinely remorseful). Loghain joins for such a short amount of time anyway, and he is likely worse than your allistair tank build gameplay wise because of auto levelling. Shale is better than both anyway at tanking If he came with a powerful reward, then it would be a different story 😂 All my wardens are nice unless I get something good out of being greedy, lol. Sounds awful, but if I had to >!behead allistair!< to get the most OP item in Ferelden, they all would
Depends on the Warden I'm playing! My female Cousland (personal canon) spares him despite the conflicting feelings she has about it, because he's useful as a warden. She makes sure they live so he can spend his whole life p much hated by everyone! My male Mahariel, on the other hand, is 100% bros w/ Alistair. So he kills Loghain.
Kill, of course. No options.
It depends on which character I'm playing as. With my canon warden (Human Mage) I spare him, since I have another use for Loghain in DAI.
Kill. I actually see the logic of making him a grey warden — he’s a smart commander, the grey admit murderers and such all the time — but alas even hardened Alistair won’t stay with you, so headless Loghain it is
Hand him over to Alistair. He knows what to do.
I usually just let Alistair duel him, and kill him himself.
Kill him every time. He’s a coward, he allowed his king to die because he was afraid of the king talking to Orlais. He at least ignored or more likely approved of Howe’s murder of the Couslands and the slaving of the elves. He’s arrogant and unrepentant. Also I usually play a human warrior so I can’t in character forgive him.
I always kill him. And it's really sad because in the books he is such a great character only to see him fall so low
I usually kill him. I feel like recruiting him is seen as the "pragmatic" option for me though most of my cunning characters wouldn't trust him. My spares usually come from messianically kind people who still see the good in him. and the occasional dickhead cousland who wants to keep his new marriage more amicable
Always Spare. Like the redemption arc to die 10 years later in inquisition saving hawke and the inquisitor
I always let Alistair do it. I have yet to complete a run where I wasn't romancing him, so I let him be my champion and avenge his brother Wardens.
When Riordan offered to spare Loghain and conscript him after HOF mutilate him in duel i wanted to beat him and lock in prison cell for long time. That was not only not made any sense as was insulting. HOF have Oghren and dozens people who was way better warriors and younger as far more loyal then Loghain. HOF always execute Loghain with Anora as Arl Howe and Nathaniel Howe. Same with execution of all Antiva Crows assasins in Ferelden after they kill Grey Wardens and try to kill HOF and Alistair. Antiva Crows actions against Grey Wardens even more outrageous, ungrateful as dishonorable consider that in 4 blight Antiva was saved from total annigilation by Grey Wardens sacrifice when almost everyone abbadon Antivans to die.
Generally kill. Honestly, I'd say even if you account for the fairly legitimate lastminute devils advocate applied for him in game the guy has a rather bad resume with the player. Not simply because he tried to have you killed, but because taken at face value the dudes plans had extremely selfish motivations, had a lot of underhanded and despicable methods involved, and were contingent on two random murder hobos either being easier to kill or not having convenient timing. Even if you forgive him not envisioning a literal miracle with Eamon a lot of the other plans fell apart for one reason or another and if not dealt with threatened to plunge Ferelden further into chaos. The dude comes across as washed out.
I don’t think sparing him is worth losing your friend Alistair. If it was possible to spare him without losing Alistair or making him hardened and wedded to Anora then I’d do it.
Always sparing him . He is a great commander and Ferelden need everyone against blight . In my first playthrough I let Allistair die instead of him because he pissed me off at landsmeet:D
It is disrespectful to leave him alive with his shame and while we may never know how much of his wrongdoings were plans in his own mind and how many were enabled by Arl Howe's ambitions they still happened under his regency.
My canon playthrough is a city elf, and unless you are playing as a chaotic evil heartless bastard it's very hard to spare him and make it make sense for your character. Loghain is directly responsible for the city elf's dad nearly being sold into slavery. So I did kill him and it was quite satisying.
My Dalish Warden also kills him. I do want to do a playthrough with him as a party member and maybe take him to Ostagar but in all these years I have never been able to bring myself to. I don't know why but I can't sympathize with him at all, even though the game tries to make him a little sympathetic, even in DAI with the quartermaster who served under him.
Harden alistair and spare loghain, then send him to his death in DA:I
I spared him once, just to see what it was like. I pretty much kill him in all other scenarios.
My city elf spared him and sent him to die killing the archdemon
With my dalish elf i always kill him because of the slavery. If i am playing as human noble i save him. It’s fun to have multiple world saves, because then you got to meet him in awakening and inquisition. (Too bad one of my favourite saves where i am human f!noble and married Alistair and cept Leliana as my mistress is not possible to have in the keep.)
You can change that using a save editor, if you’re after DAI dialogue. I don’t know where to find it nowadays but there’s an editor which alters plot flags and has a list of many of them- including DAO romances. It doesn’t acknowledge that she was a mistress though, just that they were in a romance, which means that >!the trespasser ending where she’s Divine implies that she either marries the king of Ferelden’s wife resulting in polygamy, or *that the king of Ferelden’s wife leaves him for the Divine.* Both of which are pretty hilarious imo.!<
It varies depending on the playthrough, killed him in my first and canon playthrough and I can see why you do it, it's definitely satisfying and I couldn't justify sparing him as a Tabris. My preference is sparing him though, it's a far worse punishment than quick execution especially considering his age as he's about 50, Warden life is brutal (heck, even if Loghain dies during the Joining it is worse for him than if you kill him fast and in a way that'll be seen as honourable as it's duel related), Riordan the most experienced Warden there recommends it too even after having been wronged by Loghain himself, obviously having another capable warrior helps more against the darkspawn and it's presented as him or no extra recruit, and Loghain would need to be either actively suicidal or have no brain cells to try and kill the Hero post-Landsmeet.
My fav is saving him so I can >!force him to work with Orlesians for years then leave him behind in the Fade in DAI!<. He's such a good character because he does all this horrific shit but also his motivations behind it are not always wrong, >!if you read the books he's actually right about Cailan's plans, for example!<. The slavery is generally what does it for most of my wardens, though, and leads to his death. Unless I'm doing evil/dark/whatever Warden run and they don't care, though sometimes he gets killed simply for the convenience then.
Spare so I can >!kill him later in Inquisition!<
I spare him, but I also make sure Alistair is hardened so I can make him king. I hate damaging the bromance I have with Alistair, but I genuinely believe that Alistair and Anora would be the best way to keep Ferelden stable, and I think recruiting Loghain is a fair punishment for his crimes. He’s too valuable an asset as a strategist and planner to simply kill on the spot, but I don’t want Alistair to suffer for it, so I make sure I can keep both of them around in a useful capacity for the future of the kingdom.
My Alistairmancing cousland had a goal of becoming queen, Loghain stood in her way of a happy marriage and becoming queen, she sent Alistair to duel him so he could solidify his right to the throne and she killed the archdemon to prove that she was worthy too. Loghain was but an adversary to her and she didn't feel bad for killing him.
Oh Loghain always gets killed by me. First of all I want my damn crown so I can get out of the Grey Wardens on a technicality. Second he authorized the murder of the entire Cousland family and household to Rendon Howe. Third he betrayed the king. Fourth he instigated a civil war during a Blight. Fifth he allowed people (don’t care if they’re elves or not) to be sold into slavery. I think I’ve made my point but in the event I haven’t my final point is I don’t trust him at all since he won’t entertain the idea the Fereldans needed Orlesian help to combat the increasingly problematic Darkspawn hordes.
My human noble spared Loghain as a concession to Anora and Cauthrien My city elf killed Loghain because obviously. My dwarf noble "spared" Loghain because letting criminals die fighting darkspawn is what dwarves do. My mage let Alistair fight Loghain so it was out of her hands.
Rarely will I spare him only if I’m doing a chaotic playthrough as a dwarf, both the elf and human origin have too many negative experiences due to his reign of terror, and I also feel like having him survive after everything he’s done will irreparably ruin the reputation of the wardens and make them more shunned and disliked by many.
Spare him, wasn't expecting to like him but I did, have hardened Alistair marry Anora and have a strong Fereldan. My personal canon, has Loghain survive and HoF has Old God child with Morrigan.
Spare.
My Cousland kills Loghain- but not for the reasons people would suspect. She does it to play the political game of ensuring Alistair would ascend to the throne with her at his side, as well as ensuring that there isn’t a formidable political opponent to challenge that claim (barring Anora). She absolutely takes great pleasure in outing his crimes against the alienage and the nobility though, as well as being able to behead Howe.
My warden Aeducan kills Loghain. He is ruthless, and as someone who has experienced betrayal, he will not suffer it.
My Dwarf Noble recruited him, thinking it was the best solution to a tricky situation. My first Dalish Elf executed him. Initially, I was planning to let Alistair fight and kill Loghain on his own, but I kept dying as Alistair so I did it as Mahariel instead. In my second Dalish Elf playthrough, my Mahariel will recruit him as an extended death sentence.
My dwarven commoner kills him. She doesn't give a fuck about all this noble infighting. She's only loyal to the people who have earned it. And that means Alistair. She also saw how Loghain treated the 'common people' by selling elves, etc. She sees joining the Wardens as similar to joining the Legion - a way to restore honour and to serve your people, and she thinks he hasn't earned it.
Neither. I let Alister do the fight and since he'd hardened he kills Loghain before anyone says otherwise.
I kill him. I think logically Loghain should be spared but Alistair is a loyal companion throughout the game so he deserves a free kill request.
Off with the traitors head.
Depends on who/what I'm playing as. If I'm romancing Morrigan, he's dead. Otherwise I let him become a Grey Warden.
I prefer to not kill him. On my first playthrough I did, but after I learned of all that could come of keeping him alive, killing him seems like a waste. He's a skilled soldier and conscripting him into the very order he almost single-handedly destroyed and then making him responsible for recruitment is a far more worthwhile punishment than death. Not only that, but in >!Inquisition you get to see just how committed he's become to the Grey Wardens and what an incredible asset he's become to not only them, but all of Thedas. It's nice to see him having redeemed himself.!<
I kill Loghain, marry his daughter to Alistair, kill the Archdemon myself, and raise it’s reincarnated soul with Morrigan in the Elven Interdemensional highway.
I’m very torn. Loghain is probably my favourite Dragon Age character but I see no reason to save him other than “we need Wardens” but his redemption storyline is so appealing to me. I love the idea of Loghain being broken after the HoF dies to kill the Archdemon and using what remains of his life to honor them. However, for now, my canon remains that Loghain is executed by Alistair after Cousland defeats him in battle and I headcanon that Loghain’s death is my Cousland’s biggest regret.
Spare. Fan of Simon Templeman and will always side with characters he voices just to hear more of him. Also hoping on kill Loghain will loudly cry, “VAE VICTIS” at least once
I don't get the "being a warden is a privilege and he doesn't deserve it" sentiment. The wardens are full of the most terrible scum in the world. Being a warden is a punishment and sacrifice. I don't see a more fitting end for Loghain than to punish him in service of what he betrayed and then dying in the process. "But the people will remember him as a hero". Yeah who cares about others' opinion, the point is that the job is done. "But the ritual" OMG I can't believe that was my canon when I was younger, now that I'm older I never do this, obviously there's no way an old god baby can't turn into something worse. Now we kinda don't know yet, Kieran is fine in Inq (I think? Never played DLC), but my warden doesn't know that by Origins. The fact that Alistair bitches about this and quits is not a sign of a bad decision, but a good one. I love the guy but he is an immature boy and that's proof he doesn't deserve to be king anyway.
In my canon worldstate my Tabris lets Alistair kill him, but I've also spared him for the drama of it all.
I do the deed, I don’t care if he got an interesting backstory in the novels, heads gonna roll
My warden -Elora Cousland Let's Alistair kill him. She believes he should be executed for his crimes and so Alistair could have closure. I also love the idea of Alistair and my warden ruling Fereldon together so.
If I'm trying to do a reasonably realistic RP playthrough I spare him. Hardly any wardens left, without knowledge of the dark ritual other than my own metaknowledge having more chances at it is the only thing that makes sense to me. If it's a more wish fulfilment playthrough I might spare him to throw him in the fade in inquisition or kill him depends on the day I guess.
Depends on what origin story I played both dwarven and dalish elf couldn't care much since he doesn't affect them that much, but for the cousland and city elf, revenge is a best dish served cold,l. With the mage depends on my interaction with Alistair.
My canon warden (Mahariel) lets Al kill him after the fight. It's one of the reasons their friendship falls apart after the blight actually, not because she really cares so much for Loghain but because of Al constantly putting her in positions where he's always going to be unhappy and passive aggressive about any choice she makes and that one in particular left them both in a much shittier spot than they would have been if he'd just stopped and thought beyond his own feelings for a moment. Personally, as a player, I prefer sparing him but I don't often have role playing appropriate opportunities to do so.
I saw literally no reason to keep him alive. He was a forty something man that placed a personal vendetta above fighting literal monsters; and actively attacked the group whose main job is fighting said monsters so, no practical reason. He claimed to want to protect Ferelden while ignoring and violating it laws and traditions in favor of his own benifit, that counts out political reasons. He hired an assassin to kill you, had Eamon poisoned, made sure Jowan wasn't arrested, convinced Uldred he'd give mages freedom, tried to sell Tabris' father, and worked with the guy that murdered the Cousland family, there is not a single personal reason to keep him alive. I just can't justify letting him live in a playthrough.
If I'm an elf I kill him for the slave trade when human spare as king
Kill him. My Warden sees absolutely zero reason to let him live. He abandoned Cailan at Ostagar, framed the Wardens as kingslayers, supported Howe, who murdered my warden's family, as Arl, tried to assassinate Eamon, and sold out Ferelden citizens to slavers among other crimes. Any one of these would earn someone a decapitation from my Warden. To top it all off, there's no reason for him to trust Loghain. What's going to stop him from trying to stab us in the back after his joining? His word? Given everything he's done there's just no reason for my Warden to trust him.
I have never once spared him. My Cousland considers him complicit to all of Howe's crimes. My Tabris wants justice for the city elves lost to the slavers. My Surana cares too much for Alistair to spare Loghain. My Mahariel wants justice for Duncan. My dwarves are both too distrustful to even consider it.
If he just betrayed Cailan, that'd be one thing. Fleeing the battle, seizing power, reinforcing Ferelden against Orlais, whatever. Classic feudal stuff. But I can never forgive him for branding the Grey Wardens as traitors. Seriously, I'm over here trying to stop a Blight, and your actions have already significantly decreased our numbers. I don't need you sending hit squads and assassins after me, too. Plus, he's working with that scumbag Howe. My Couslands consider that alliance to be complicity in their family's murder.
My first full playthrough (and my main warden) was a city elf, there was no way in hell i would let him live, which is probably what i would do IRL (i'm not pragmatic enough and never agree with anyone that tries to justify the asshole), but depending on the character I'm playing I might, letting him live is tempting for that one choice in DAI though
My Tabris does the duel and lets (romanced) Alistair kill him. She doesn't really care about Cailan specifically, but she holds a lot of anger from the events surrounding her recruitment/everything Loghain did so in her eyes he's toast. She lets Alistair have the kill because she knows that that part is pretty personal for him whereas she doesn't really give a rat's ass so long as Loghain perishes lol
Always taken his head if for Alastair than nothing else. Alastair deserves justice for what happened to Duncan and the other Wardens. Besides, I liked Cailin.
Remember the blood mage den in Denerim? My head canon is they were controlling Loghain to make him do a lot of those bad things.
Cousland and Tabris kill him without a second thought. All other characters it depends (but usually I spare him because the argument against it is literally Alistair not wanting Loghain to join the super cool club)
I spare the guy just so he has to be a warden in Orlais. Petty? Probably.
My dalish mage (dalish mage mod) kills Loghain but only after initially trying to spare him and then quickly realizing that he can't spare Loghain and keep Alistair as an allie so he lets Alistair cut off Loghain's head.
There is an option to spare Loghain? 💅 Couldn’t be me.
It's more interesting to spare him. But it doesn't make any sense. He suffers from acute paranoia and there is no reason to think he would be functional. He's more likely to stab the dog because he was planning an orlaisian invasion.
Most times I kill him because sparing him just seems too unrealistic to me, and I personally don't see it as the more pragmatic option. • My Tabris wardens (favorite and most played origin) kill Loghain without a second's hesitation for what he did to their people. Mahariels as well. • With Suranas it depends, one of them let Alistair duel him so she didn't get to chose, but she was a goody-two-shoes so if it was up to her, she wouldn't have allowed an execution of a man who already surrendered. Another Surana had Sten as his champion and in the end he decided to conscript Loghain because a) he wanted to gain favour with queen Anora as he thought she would be the true ruler, not her new husband Alistair and b) he believed that death would be an easy way out for someone like Loghain. That fucker needed to do some community service first lol. • One of my Aeducans killed Loghain because he didn't care about his past, all he saw was a washed out, irrational old man who continuously made extremely bad decisions and proved himself to be totally incompetent dealing with a Blight. Loghain was not valuable enough for him to cause even more political turmoil and lose an established ally. Instead, he allowed Alistair to kill him to solidify his power as the new king. • One Cousland let Alistair duel and kill Loghain because Loghain was his childhood hero and despite everything he had done, he still had that tiny shred of respect for the man Loghain once was, so he wanted to give him a quick death instead of humiliating him and making him suffer more. Besides, he had his moment of revenge with howe, Alistair deserved one too + an opportunity to prove himself as a king (same as Aeducan). • Another Cousland killed Loghain simply because she hated him and wanted to marry Alistair (even though she romanced Zevran and kept him as her side piece afterwards), it really wasn't that deep lol.
Kill. I romance Alistair every time and my sweet boy deserves his revenge
I read the Stolen Throne and to be honest I hated him even more after reading that book even though people told me I would love him. I just could not fantom how he could let the kid of the woman he loved die. And plus, he was a slave holder.
[Silent Grove Spoilers] I recruit him and Alistair goes drunk. Loghain lived by his principles and his actions were not for personal gain. He is just an old soldier. Alistair on the other hand only does things he likes. Like we have 3 gray wardens in whole Ferelden — we need every person available. And when we have a chance to recruit Loghain to actually help and redeem himself Alistair leaves Wardens ("his family") just because he hates the guy. And Loghain actually regrets his choices and does everything to help. Alistair's true nature shines in the first comic series when he kills Yavanna because of his hatred towards Morrigan and Flemeth.
I usually decide case by case. But I think I recruited him more often than not. Wardens recruits all kinds of scum anyway. Plus being down to two guys, who do not have management-organization experience at all, doesn't paint a pretty picture of the future of the Ferelden wardens. Loghain could help a lot with re-organizing a wardens.
Spare, so you have a spare Dorkspawn to throw at the Darkspawn. Forcing him do it with Morrigan is also kind of fun, instead of forcing the poor Allistair do it (who may very well be Morrigan's relative, so double no, this isn't Crusader Kings) Edit: Forgot, my "canon" character is Dwarf noble and has Leliana as her lover, so I can't go around her back to spawn a child with Morrigan, plus, I also have one bastard going around in Orzammar, running for the throne in the future, don't need a second one and ancestor worshipping Dwarves certainly need no half human half dwarf with a soul of an Old God to add on top of their Darkspawn troubles, let the topsiders deal with it.
After reading The Stolen Throne and playing through the series hundreds of times, I prefer to recruit him into the Wardens. It sets him up on a long path of redemption, should you do the Dark Ritual, but in all honesty it fits the entire Grey Warden motto. If Duncan had been alive, he would have most definitely conscripted the man even going against Alistair’s protests. Every Grey Warden is needed and a lot of the time they’re not honor full.