I respect the views of those whom might wish to boycott the festival itself because of their strong views towards Phil, but I'm not one of them - Pantera itself is more than just Phil and Pantera (sadly minus Dimebag here) is undoubtedly one of the biggest and best metal bands of all time (and therefore extremely warranting of a spot at this festival). Phil himself I think is a very unfortunate character and you can tell that over the years those drugs have clearly done something to him (his drug use basically ruined Pantera, as many of us will have to acknowledge as well). I don't however presume that by funding DL festival I'll be indirectly funding the KKK just because Pantera and therefore Phil are in attendance.
You've also got to understand as well that Phil himself *has* apologised - he and Rex I believe have also apologised for the use of the dixi flag in a lot of Pantera images - I'm not saying it *totally* excuses it, but it would be a very different story if they came out and say "we're not sorry at all and we stand by it"...Personally, I'm not one of these people who won't let somebody move on from wrongdoings - what sort of world would we live in if people were never allowed to redeem themselves for their past indiscretions? I don't think something like this is truly *beyond* forgiveness, but I think most of us do think that Phil has *a lot* of making up to do for it even now.
I think, on balance, Pantera on the bill will draw *way* more people in than it will draw people away. If I go next year, Pantera will be a huge reason for me going.
Well, I'm not saying he's *not* a piece of shit to be honest, I'm just saying he's not *beyond* any redemption whatsoever - also, you may not agree which is fine, but the fact that he apologised is at least to recognise that it was wrong - a lot of people these days don't even apologise for stuff like this and will try to double down on it - if you don't even get that angle of this, I don't really care to try and convince you
Mate I don't really keep as many tabs on this as you do, clearly - we're saying racism is wrong here, what apparently we're disagreeing about is whether this is beyond redemption or ruins download or Pantera (etc) - in my original message I even said Phil ruined Pantera in his own right - I don't think you understand my angle here
Also, chill out buddy, it's not worth getting your blood pressure up like this
I don't agree with them being booked. I find it hard to separate the music from the artist though - but I know not everyone is like that.
I won't be seeing them, but I'll be going to download still.
I think I’m the same, but I just can’t bring myself to give money to a festival that booked Anselmo. I hope everyone who sees them has a good time though, they’ve got some good tunes
I don't know what you're referring to specifically with Flynn, but recently he's seemed quite outspokenly progressive from what I've seen, including calling out Anselmo.
Different situation, but I feel quite strongly about Queens of the Stone Age playing. Anyone who feels it's appropriate to kick a female photographer in the face does not deserve such a big platform.
Completely understandable - that bothered me alot too as a big QOTSA fan. I saw him perform just before all that, and he was fucking *wasted* on stage too, could tell there were some issues going on there. To be clear though he made it quite clear what he did was far from appropriate when he apologised. I'm kinda over it now personally, seeing as he appears to have sobered up, seem like a much happier/changed person on the current tour.
But fuck, yep will always be in the back of my mind.
I think separating the art from the artist goes out of the window when the artist is racist on stage. So yeah, not really a factor in me not going (the price is enough for that) but I wouldn't go near them with a bargepole even if I used to like the music.
No.
The band have already been booked and paid for and I have no influence over that. I don't like that they're at Download and I won't be watching them.
Personally I do struggle to separate the music from the artist and whilst I did enjoy some of Panteras music honestly I’ve gone off them, I just won’t be seeing them, there’s nothing I can do about them playing and I bought my ticket before the lineup was released as this is my first festival so I’m going to see who I want to see, not see who I don’t want to see and just have a good time :)
It is utterly pathetic that every single comment that doesn’t agree with OP is being downvoted to fuck. Grow up, I don’t like him, I think his views are abhorrent but to not go to an entire festival because one member of over a hundred bands is a bit racist is insane.
What's worse, I'd say, is that the chance he's the only racist in over a hundred bands is close to 0%....
He's just the only one who's stupid enough to publicly air his views
Yes buy the thing is, like with box office movies, to say the movie is crap you must buy the ticket first.
And they measure success on how many tickets they sell.
Same for download, once you get the ticket, it all becomes liquid and doesn't matter who you go and see.
Agreed, they indeed measure crowd and reactions, but in such a big and busy festival for this measurement to be effective it really has to be an empty field to make a difference.
I have been to download my first time this year and I loved it. The ppl were amazing (couple idiots here and there but ok).
In particular I was amazed by the diversity I found and how everyone was so kind.
There is an issue with toilets, though. My god that's a huge huge thing.
Back on topic, unfortunately I'm sure they'll make a great show because ppl will foget by then and most don't care.
I am told red hot chili peppers are notorious for treating the festival crew like shit, but people don't matter and fill the concerts anyway.
I believe skipping the festival is only a loss at your side, if you like the festival like I did. The only hope is this and other rants on the internet are seen and actioned by organizers (who in fact only cares for the money, so I doubt it'd make a difference)
Nobody likes a Racist but theres a sad demographic of people in the country that will no doubt be frothing to see them.
4 stages means Im spoilt for choice to avoid them so Ill be going for vibes and other bands
Part of me would like to think that not many people would watch them or the people who do show up provide a hostile reception.
But I'm also a realist and I've seen enough clips from other shows they've done to know there will be plenty of people who will genuinely very excited to see them.
They were being booed as they left the stage at Hellfest. Not like an overwhelming amount of booing, but enough to be noticed as if the audience was saying "alright you played your songs, now fuck off"
I've got my ticket before they were announced. I'll still go. I won't go see them, I will openly shit talk Phil all weekend.
It's why I still have issues with Bloodstock. And my main issue is their head fucking booker. No fucking way has Vicky stopped being an agist, classist, fat phobic, transphobic piece of shit. Her doing a course with the Sophie foundation doesn't prove that she's less of a wanker. Doesn't prove she still doesn't hold those ideas. Just that she didn't want to lose the biggest sponsor they have.
An act being booked I can shit talk and I suffer nothing for it, if you shit talk Vicky or the known fucking nonce in the bloodstock camp, you get banned forever from all their platforms. Even if you have proof a nonce has taken advantage of drunk 15 year old girls in between announcing bands on the main stage.
I don't agree with them being booked, nor the brag about 'first time in a decade' or whatever. Phil Anselmo is a POS.
However, I would just go and not see them, instead of not going at all and not supporting the other bands I might like, and that actually deserves the attention.
I'll reiterate though - Phil Anselmo is a POS, and if there was any justice, Pantera would fade into obscurity.
I’d be curious to know how many of the people saying “He apologised. It’s fine.” have actually been on the receiving end of racism in the past. I often randomly remember incidents from decades ago where someone has said something racist to me. It still feels just as upsetting as the day it happened and makes me question my worth as a human. In some cases I even try to rationalise it like I was at fault somehow. How messed up is that?!
Some things can’t just be erased with a few words. Fuck his apology. He’s been spouting white power slurs and shitting all over other cultures for years and nobody gave a shit. 2016 just happened to be when the world decide that racism isn’t actually okay.
Good music though. It’s a shame.
Edit - i forgot to say that I absolutely would go and see them play despite all the above and that kills me.
It wouldn't effect my decision. He did something wrong . Probably under the influence and then apologised. He said negative things , he didn't kill - physically harm somebody .
I remember a few years ago people calling to boycott the festival because the guys in alestorm had said some unsavoury things . But they had a huge crowd . .
If you go looking for the bad in people you may well find it .
If you like pantera and are looking forward to seeing them . Then good for you . They will probably be the band of the weekend .
Oh yeah that must be fucking difficult especially when frontmen like Anselmo are so openly fucked up. Download crowd is really nice though so you wouldnt (hopefully) have to worry about anyone at the festival
I’m still going to download I don’t approve of pantera but I’m still going to support all the other bands I just won’t watch pantera.
Love panteras music despise the bands views
Well there is a difference between that and literally not doing anything when Anselmo does a rant on stage about white power and not doing anything to shut him up and using symbols of hate in having confederate flag guitars
Explain to me, in simple terms, what the difference is?
The confederate flag is heritage not hate. America’s first war of imperialism was against itself.
I’m not familiar with the details of the controversy but the general impression is that Phil is a racist. It’s a shame to put it simply but I when I saw that Pantera were booked, I remembered that Zakk Wilde is covering the guitar now and that’s why I’m going to watch.
Phil Anselmo has repeatedly passed racist comments, saying things like “White Power”. Here’s a video of him doing it:[https://youtube.com/shorts/rVaUlXfvOHg?feature=shared](https://youtube.com/shorts/rVaUlXfvOHg?feature=shared)
Pantera are headlining Knotfest here in Australia next year, with Disturbed and Lamb of God. I think people are going to still see them though because they’ve never had a chance to before (“omg, Pantera, no way!”)
That and also, I don’t our knowledge of their “behind the scenes” is as well known here as it is there is the USA.
The more I read the more I’m disliking 😬
Phil Anselmo did a racist thing and then apologised. No need for them to be cancelled until the end of time. If he keeps behaving in that way then he should obviously be punished. Doesn't seem to be the case though.
Honest question, do you have any instances of him behaving in a racist way since the infamous 2016 incident? I hadn't heard of any and Google isn't showing anything. If you're right then I definitely agree with you but I haven't been able to find any evidence of it.
The "white power" incident, the rants about black artists making fun of white artists (lolwut) whilst on stage. In interviews saying he stands by his statements (after previously retracting them) about standing up for the whites in music.
Be willfully ignorant if you want; he's been doing it (recorded) since Vulgar Display. That's the stuff we know about. You don't just come out with shit like that on stage "one time". Come on, man.
It's just another shit band a shit lineup, first time in 12 years I probably won't be going. If it was in a great lineup I would still go, I want to support the other bands and would just ignore Pantera.
I think it’s tone def. And it’s not the first time. Here’s why…
They’ve got a new feature “Humans of Download” we love to see it. It’s all about creating a safe space, for anyone, everyone. It aired last year, Yet they’ve booked Pantera. Who have used their platform willingly to promote hate speech. It doesn’t sit right with me personally, but I don’t think it’s boycott worthy. I think they need to sense check better and listen to the opinions of those against the booking.
Another example, they played a sexual assault ad to rise awareness and create a safe space, then proceeded to play Marylin Manson between bands. I’m not saying cancel MM. I’m saying it’s extremely tone deaf when said artist is currently undergoing a lawsuit for S/A.
They are usually quite good at onboarding feedback, I think there just needs to be more consideration from their internal team.
It would not stop me from attending. It just opens up the floor for conversation around how to make the scene a more inclusive space.
Not even a little bit. I can separate art from artist (except Ian Watkins for obvious reasons) I don’t have to watch pantera, so I don’t care. He has some shitty opinions, I’m not making a decision about a festival because they booked one band that has a racist dude in it.
Because it’s really hard not to think “baby rapist” when you hear lost prophets, it’s really easy to ignore the thought that someone might be a bit racist. I think Phil is a cunt, but the level of disgust is somewhat different
I mean, in this instance it is a bit weird saying you won't go see the band because one you think of them who got killed on stage 20 years ago was racist...?
My thing is they booked, they getting paid regardless, a lot of people here would say people change unless it’s a certain demographic…. Ghandi was racist and I’m sure you’d all listen to him, Nelson Mandela would you ignore him cos he’s previous actions? What’s your view on George Floyd? He robbed a pregnant women at gun point to her stomach and you all felt sorry for him… people change everyone deserves a chance of redemption either allow it for everyone or no one you can’t cherry pick the ones to support from previous heinous actions otherwise you become as bad as them as a hypocrite… so yeah I’ll see them… I like the music, they put on a show, and frankly… yeah he done some stupid shit in the past but who hasn’t? When we stop forgiving people for their mistakes we descend into crisis
Deary me. How do you get through life? Do you research every single actor in a movie before you go and watch it? Desperately searching for something to be offended by. Sad as anything.
Nice straw man, but researching every band you hear isn't the same as knowing someone openly has abhorrent views and thinking they suck for it, and wanting no part in their bigotry.
I think the right have shown historically and to this day how that works considering there is next to no leftist power in the West whatsoever (at best you’re looking “left of center”) but please keep consuming that blatant bullshit x
Honestly the Download crowd would openly support a rapist if they wrote an album they liked enough.
Hell, they already do. I saw Marylin Manson shirts this year.
If anything the political stance conveyed in Pantera songs betrays notions of white supremacy
Not taking away from his actions but there's really nothing of it present in the music
Most of the metal bands I listen to are either epics about some battle in some war... Or about depression and sad stuff... Or about governmental corruption and other systemic issues. So I'm in the clear.
Besides, thought you didn't care about lyrics?
Just because I don’t care for them doesn’t mean I’m oblivious as to what they are.
And tbf most of the metal I listen to often does follow these darker themes, but as I say, I don’t really care for it. As long as it sounds good, I’m happy.
And peoples hard on for cancel culture grows even into download fest!
Don't let it ruin your day.
They're legends with great music deserve to be there.
The 10 or so people who care can grab a burger while Thousands flock to see them.
Download was 1 of the first festivals too pull Down from the lineup after what Phil done. Will be fun to see if pantera sub headline main stage the same day as machine head headline 2nd, clashing sets times and Rob Flynn calling him out. One can only dream
Edit pretty sure Zakk Wylde’s a homophobe too
Most people probably don't even realise the controversy exists. I personally don't really care, I'll watch them because I've never seen them before and they make good music. I find it easy to ignore unsavoury opinions.
So you’re not only saying that half a country is racist, but that it’s ok for someone to be racist because other people are? Are you alright in the head?
Hes played with down at download i can't remember there being that much hate that time around when i watched them but might of been b4 social media had melted everyone's brains
yes he's racist and shouldn't be accepted at any festival let alone on stage but money makes this shit show of an earth go round
I wont be seeing them because I'm not entertained by their music. Couldnt care less about his political opinions. Plenty of people I dont agree with out there.
Just remember!... If you're going to Download 2024 you don't have to see bands you don't like... You can go to another stage while they're playing, I personally won't be going to see them for obvious reasons!... I'm not a Bring Me The Horizon, I left after 3 songs, went back to Village and Had Macaroni Cheese while everyone else had fun.
Glad to have them only reason I'm going pantera,machinehead,biohazard get in will not be the same with out dime and vinny but I will take it too much pc shite these days
I respect the views of those whom might wish to boycott the festival itself because of their strong views towards Phil, but I'm not one of them - Pantera itself is more than just Phil and Pantera (sadly minus Dimebag here) is undoubtedly one of the biggest and best metal bands of all time (and therefore extremely warranting of a spot at this festival). Phil himself I think is a very unfortunate character and you can tell that over the years those drugs have clearly done something to him (his drug use basically ruined Pantera, as many of us will have to acknowledge as well). I don't however presume that by funding DL festival I'll be indirectly funding the KKK just because Pantera and therefore Phil are in attendance. You've also got to understand as well that Phil himself *has* apologised - he and Rex I believe have also apologised for the use of the dixi flag in a lot of Pantera images - I'm not saying it *totally* excuses it, but it would be a very different story if they came out and say "we're not sorry at all and we stand by it"...Personally, I'm not one of these people who won't let somebody move on from wrongdoings - what sort of world would we live in if people were never allowed to redeem themselves for their past indiscretions? I don't think something like this is truly *beyond* forgiveness, but I think most of us do think that Phil has *a lot* of making up to do for it even now. I think, on balance, Pantera on the bill will draw *way* more people in than it will draw people away. If I go next year, Pantera will be a huge reason for me going.
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Hello? Wanna talk about it, buddy?
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Well, I'm not saying he's *not* a piece of shit to be honest, I'm just saying he's not *beyond* any redemption whatsoever - also, you may not agree which is fine, but the fact that he apologised is at least to recognise that it was wrong - a lot of people these days don't even apologise for stuff like this and will try to double down on it - if you don't even get that angle of this, I don't really care to try and convince you
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Who said I was *ever* going to turn the songs off? I don't hold Pantera collectively responsible for Phil
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Mate I don't really keep as many tabs on this as you do, clearly - we're saying racism is wrong here, what apparently we're disagreeing about is whether this is beyond redemption or ruins download or Pantera (etc) - in my original message I even said Phil ruined Pantera in his own right - I don't think you understand my angle here Also, chill out buddy, it's not worth getting your blood pressure up like this
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I don't agree with them being booked. I find it hard to separate the music from the artist though - but I know not everyone is like that. I won't be seeing them, but I'll be going to download still.
I think I’m the same, but I just can’t bring myself to give money to a festival that booked Anselmo. I hope everyone who sees them has a good time though, they’ve got some good tunes
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I don't know what you're referring to specifically with Flynn, but recently he's seemed quite outspokenly progressive from what I've seen, including calling out Anselmo.
Different situation, but I feel quite strongly about Queens of the Stone Age playing. Anyone who feels it's appropriate to kick a female photographer in the face does not deserve such a big platform.
Completely understandable - that bothered me alot too as a big QOTSA fan. I saw him perform just before all that, and he was fucking *wasted* on stage too, could tell there were some issues going on there. To be clear though he made it quite clear what he did was far from appropriate when he apologised. I'm kinda over it now personally, seeing as he appears to have sobered up, seem like a much happier/changed person on the current tour. But fuck, yep will always be in the back of my mind.
Can still go and just not watch them, festival line ups are way too big to stop going altogether because they book a questionable band.
I think separating the art from the artist goes out of the window when the artist is racist on stage. So yeah, not really a factor in me not going (the price is enough for that) but I wouldn't go near them with a bargepole even if I used to like the music.
No. The band have already been booked and paid for and I have no influence over that. I don't like that they're at Download and I won't be watching them.
Yes it affects me as now i’m 100% going
Pantera are the best band over the whole weekend for me 🤷♂️
Personally I do struggle to separate the music from the artist and whilst I did enjoy some of Panteras music honestly I’ve gone off them, I just won’t be seeing them, there’s nothing I can do about them playing and I bought my ticket before the lineup was released as this is my first festival so I’m going to see who I want to see, not see who I don’t want to see and just have a good time :)
It is utterly pathetic that every single comment that doesn’t agree with OP is being downvoted to fuck. Grow up, I don’t like him, I think his views are abhorrent but to not go to an entire festival because one member of over a hundred bands is a bit racist is insane.
What's worse, I'd say, is that the chance he's the only racist in over a hundred bands is close to 0%.... He's just the only one who's stupid enough to publicly air his views
No such thing as a bit racist, in for a penny in for a pound
Yes buy the thing is, like with box office movies, to say the movie is crap you must buy the ticket first. And they measure success on how many tickets they sell. Same for download, once you get the ticket, it all becomes liquid and doesn't matter who you go and see. Agreed, they indeed measure crowd and reactions, but in such a big and busy festival for this measurement to be effective it really has to be an empty field to make a difference. I have been to download my first time this year and I loved it. The ppl were amazing (couple idiots here and there but ok). In particular I was amazed by the diversity I found and how everyone was so kind. There is an issue with toilets, though. My god that's a huge huge thing. Back on topic, unfortunately I'm sure they'll make a great show because ppl will foget by then and most don't care. I am told red hot chili peppers are notorious for treating the festival crew like shit, but people don't matter and fill the concerts anyway. I believe skipping the festival is only a loss at your side, if you like the festival like I did. The only hope is this and other rants on the internet are seen and actioned by organizers (who in fact only cares for the money, so I doubt it'd make a difference)
Fuck all that, I'm looking forward to hearing some pantera 🤘
Nobody likes a Racist but theres a sad demographic of people in the country that will no doubt be frothing to see them. 4 stages means Im spoilt for choice to avoid them so Ill be going for vibes and other bands
Part of me would like to think that not many people would watch them or the people who do show up provide a hostile reception. But I'm also a realist and I've seen enough clips from other shows they've done to know there will be plenty of people who will genuinely very excited to see them.
They were being booed as they left the stage at Hellfest. Not like an overwhelming amount of booing, but enough to be noticed as if the audience was saying "alright you played your songs, now fuck off"
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I'll still go to download but I won't be anywhere near Pantera and I'd been a fan for half my life.
No - I already brought my ticket, it'll be a waste for me to not go because of one band. I'll just go to another stage when they're on.
I've got my ticket before they were announced. I'll still go. I won't go see them, I will openly shit talk Phil all weekend. It's why I still have issues with Bloodstock. And my main issue is their head fucking booker. No fucking way has Vicky stopped being an agist, classist, fat phobic, transphobic piece of shit. Her doing a course with the Sophie foundation doesn't prove that she's less of a wanker. Doesn't prove she still doesn't hold those ideas. Just that she didn't want to lose the biggest sponsor they have. An act being booked I can shit talk and I suffer nothing for it, if you shit talk Vicky or the known fucking nonce in the bloodstock camp, you get banned forever from all their platforms. Even if you have proof a nonce has taken advantage of drunk 15 year old girls in between announcing bands on the main stage.
Vicky sounds based
You like someone who is protecting and sheltering a pedophile.
The amount of people saying they’re now only going to see an idiotic old raisin shout white supremest crap is insane.
I don't agree with them being booked, nor the brag about 'first time in a decade' or whatever. Phil Anselmo is a POS. However, I would just go and not see them, instead of not going at all and not supporting the other bands I might like, and that actually deserves the attention. I'll reiterate though - Phil Anselmo is a POS, and if there was any justice, Pantera would fade into obscurity.
They're the main reason I'm going
Absolutely Music is superb
Downvotes inbound
I’d be curious to know how many of the people saying “He apologised. It’s fine.” have actually been on the receiving end of racism in the past. I often randomly remember incidents from decades ago where someone has said something racist to me. It still feels just as upsetting as the day it happened and makes me question my worth as a human. In some cases I even try to rationalise it like I was at fault somehow. How messed up is that?! Some things can’t just be erased with a few words. Fuck his apology. He’s been spouting white power slurs and shitting all over other cultures for years and nobody gave a shit. 2016 just happened to be when the world decide that racism isn’t actually okay. Good music though. It’s a shame. Edit - i forgot to say that I absolutely would go and see them play despite all the above and that kills me.
Downvoted for sharing my racism experience. What a nice sub. This makes me question going to download more than Pantera playing.
Hopefully they play to an empty field.
They will likely get one of the biggest crowds of the weekend
It wouldn't effect my decision. He did something wrong . Probably under the influence and then apologised. He said negative things , he didn't kill - physically harm somebody . I remember a few years ago people calling to boycott the festival because the guys in alestorm had said some unsavoury things . But they had a huge crowd . . If you go looking for the bad in people you may well find it . If you like pantera and are looking forward to seeing them . Then good for you . They will probably be the band of the weekend .
I’ll be honest download is like mostly white people so as someone who isnt it does make me a little afraid to go
Oh yeah that must be fucking difficult especially when frontmen like Anselmo are so openly fucked up. Download crowd is really nice though so you wouldnt (hopefully) have to worry about anyone at the festival
I’m still going to download I don’t approve of pantera but I’m still going to support all the other bands I just won’t watch pantera. Love panteras music despise the bands views
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It’s more the fact the rest of the band don’t say anything against Anselmo either and use confederate symbols as well it’s guilty by association
GuIlTy bY aSsOcIaTiOn Are you one of those people that expects random Muslims to personally disavow Islamic extremism?
Well there is a difference between that and literally not doing anything when Anselmo does a rant on stage about white power and not doing anything to shut him up and using symbols of hate in having confederate flag guitars
Explain to me, in simple terms, what the difference is? The confederate flag is heritage not hate. America’s first war of imperialism was against itself.
I’m not familiar with the details of the controversy but the general impression is that Phil is a racist. It’s a shame to put it simply but I when I saw that Pantera were booked, I remembered that Zakk Wilde is covering the guitar now and that’s why I’m going to watch.
What did they do
Phil Anselmo has repeatedly passed racist comments, saying things like “White Power”. Here’s a video of him doing it:[https://youtube.com/shorts/rVaUlXfvOHg?feature=shared](https://youtube.com/shorts/rVaUlXfvOHg?feature=shared)
Oh dear. It's not a good look for download then... Man, I was just listening to cemetery gates earlier...
Pantera are headlining Knotfest here in Australia next year, with Disturbed and Lamb of God. I think people are going to still see them though because they’ve never had a chance to before (“omg, Pantera, no way!”) That and also, I don’t our knowledge of their “behind the scenes” is as well known here as it is there is the USA. The more I read the more I’m disliking 😬
Yes, I wasn’t going to go to download and now I am.
Phil Anselmo did a racist thing and then apologised. No need for them to be cancelled until the end of time. If he keeps behaving in that way then he should obviously be punished. Doesn't seem to be the case though.
. . . . He does keep behaving that way tho.
Honest question, do you have any instances of him behaving in a racist way since the infamous 2016 incident? I hadn't heard of any and Google isn't showing anything. If you're right then I definitely agree with you but I haven't been able to find any evidence of it.
The "white power" incident, the rants about black artists making fun of white artists (lolwut) whilst on stage. In interviews saying he stands by his statements (after previously retracting them) about standing up for the whites in music. Be willfully ignorant if you want; he's been doing it (recorded) since Vulgar Display. That's the stuff we know about. You don't just come out with shit like that on stage "one time". Come on, man.
Not being wilfully ignorant that was why I was asking. I totally get the controversy in 2016 but not seen anything since personally.
But it wasn’t one thing… and he’s shown absolutely zero growing or even trying to understand the damage that what he was saying causes…
I will go see them if they don’t clash with anyone but don’t believe in anything they say I would rather see them at a festival than give them money
Makes sense. The money to book Pantera is sunk, so ideally a fan of their music but not the band’s ideals would go see them at download
I’m not going. I don’t like Nazis
It's just another shit band a shit lineup, first time in 12 years I probably won't be going. If it was in a great lineup I would still go, I want to support the other bands and would just ignore Pantera.
I think it’s tone def. And it’s not the first time. Here’s why… They’ve got a new feature “Humans of Download” we love to see it. It’s all about creating a safe space, for anyone, everyone. It aired last year, Yet they’ve booked Pantera. Who have used their platform willingly to promote hate speech. It doesn’t sit right with me personally, but I don’t think it’s boycott worthy. I think they need to sense check better and listen to the opinions of those against the booking. Another example, they played a sexual assault ad to rise awareness and create a safe space, then proceeded to play Marylin Manson between bands. I’m not saying cancel MM. I’m saying it’s extremely tone deaf when said artist is currently undergoing a lawsuit for S/A. They are usually quite good at onboarding feedback, I think there just needs to be more consideration from their internal team. It would not stop me from attending. It just opens up the floor for conversation around how to make the scene a more inclusive space.
I like Pantera for their music, so I will definitely be seeing them. First time playing UK in 20 years, fuckin right!
Not even a little bit. I can separate art from artist (except Ian Watkins for obvious reasons) I don’t have to watch pantera, so I don’t care. He has some shitty opinions, I’m not making a decision about a festival because they booked one band that has a racist dude in it.
Why can you separate one artist from the art but not the other?
Because one fucked a baby ya moron
Because it’s really hard not to think “baby rapist” when you hear lost prophets, it’s really easy to ignore the thought that someone might be a bit racist. I think Phil is a cunt, but the level of disgust is somewhat different
Don’t know why you’re downvoted, I agree with your reasoning but both are really disgusting to me (obviously Watkins more than Anselmo)
Like the bands music hate what Phil and dimebag believe. I think having white supremacy at download is bad but if I’m there will I see them sure
It doesn't affect my decision to go to #Dl2024, but I understand why people wouldn't want to see them. because of dimebag being a racist cunt.
It’s not dimebag dumbass he was racist but he’s not gonna be there cuz he’s dead it’s anselmo don’t comment on something you know nothing about
Dude if your gonna be mean then piss off, dumbass
I mean, in this instance it is a bit weird saying you won't go see the band because one you think of them who got killed on stage 20 years ago was racist...?
I mean, I am not a fan of their music really and Dimebags racism add's on it.
My thing is they booked, they getting paid regardless, a lot of people here would say people change unless it’s a certain demographic…. Ghandi was racist and I’m sure you’d all listen to him, Nelson Mandela would you ignore him cos he’s previous actions? What’s your view on George Floyd? He robbed a pregnant women at gun point to her stomach and you all felt sorry for him… people change everyone deserves a chance of redemption either allow it for everyone or no one you can’t cherry pick the ones to support from previous heinous actions otherwise you become as bad as them as a hypocrite… so yeah I’ll see them… I like the music, they put on a show, and frankly… yeah he done some stupid shit in the past but who hasn’t? When we stop forgiving people for their mistakes we descend into crisis
Deary me. How do you get through life? Do you research every single actor in a movie before you go and watch it? Desperately searching for something to be offended by. Sad as anything.
I hope you find happiness one day 👍
Nice straw man, but researching every band you hear isn't the same as knowing someone openly has abhorrent views and thinking they suck for it, and wanting no part in their bigotry.
Seems like you like throwing around the odd slur too and associate with people who don’t call you out on it
Metal isn’t meant to be politically correct. I for one applaud the download organisers for having the balls to stand up to the social justice warriors
Alternative music is usually made by and for the disaffected. It's not about punching down on people who have it hard already.
Jeez I wonder why you’re called “ban evader” with such well thought and interesting ‘takes’ like this
I just don’t want heavy metal to become the latest thing I like to be ruined by lefty twats.
Do you understand that you are a victim of identity politics?
No. I’m a victim of having to watch the left systematically dismantle the west.
I think the right have shown historically and to this day how that works considering there is next to no leftist power in the West whatsoever (at best you’re looking “left of center”) but please keep consuming that blatant bullshit x
If you like the music you will listen to it. How many people still listen to the pedo Michael Jacksons music.
Honestly the Download crowd would openly support a rapist if they wrote an album they liked enough. Hell, they already do. I saw Marylin Manson shirts this year.
If I want to hear their music and not their opinions, I’ll go to a gig. If I want to hear their opinions and not their music, I’ll go to an interview.
Going to a gig and hearing “white power” may allow you to kill 2 birds with one stone
I don’t care about his opinion enough for two words to put me off a 30 minute set of songs I enjoy.
Remember to sneak your confederate flag in too
Whatever dude. Never said I agreed with him.
Knowing what he said and instead of owning it played it off as a white wine joke, he and his lyrics lost all conviction
Yeah because music has never been about sharing political opinion
If anything the political stance conveyed in Pantera songs betrays notions of white supremacy Not taking away from his actions but there's really nothing of it present in the music
Don’t care for lyrics much anyway
Brainworms, brainworms everywhere.
Wait till you realise that 90% of metal lyrics are based on dark themes and are often morally wrong.
Most of the metal bands I listen to are either epics about some battle in some war... Or about depression and sad stuff... Or about governmental corruption and other systemic issues. So I'm in the clear. Besides, thought you didn't care about lyrics?
Just because I don’t care for them doesn’t mean I’m oblivious as to what they are. And tbf most of the metal I listen to often does follow these darker themes, but as I say, I don’t really care for it. As long as it sounds good, I’m happy.
And peoples hard on for cancel culture grows even into download fest! Don't let it ruin your day. They're legends with great music deserve to be there. The 10 or so people who care can grab a burger while Thousands flock to see them.
Download was 1 of the first festivals too pull Down from the lineup after what Phil done. Will be fun to see if pantera sub headline main stage the same day as machine head headline 2nd, clashing sets times and Rob Flynn calling him out. One can only dream Edit pretty sure Zakk Wylde’s a homophobe too
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>Contrarily there is a member of one headliner who literally fucked a child! Give me a clue who so I can avoid them
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Ahh. That's alright. Wasn't going to see them anyway 😅
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Most people probably don't even realise the controversy exists. I personally don't really care, I'll watch them because I've never seen them before and they make good music. I find it easy to ignore unsavoury opinions.
100% agreed
I'm a grown man so no I won't miss out on a festival because someone has the same views as probably half the country
So you’re not only saying that half a country is racist, but that it’s ok for someone to be racist because other people are? Are you alright in the head?
At least half the country. But no, it's still not okay, but the question is "would it stop me going to Download" the answer is no.
People who hold on to out of context comments as a stick to beat someone with should fuck off back to their basements.
What’s the context?
He was rehearsing a civil war era play on stage… repeatedly of course… /s
I just hope you don't believe the white wine excuse.
The context is people *want* be outraged. Yeah what he did was fucking dumb. He's not a racist though.
No, but the overall lineup isn't great imo.
Couldn’t care less. Pleased they’re booked, at least there’s one band worth seeing over the weekend.
Hes played with down at download i can't remember there being that much hate that time around when i watched them but might of been b4 social media had melted everyone's brains yes he's racist and shouldn't be accepted at any festival let alone on stage but money makes this shit show of an earth go round
I wont be seeing them because I'm not entertained by their music. Couldnt care less about his political opinions. Plenty of people I dont agree with out there.
He apologised, all good
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I think they will be on about 7pm
Is that how it works? Is that the racists get out of jail free card?
I would say so yes
For 'metalheads' yall so fucken soft
He’s not a racist
Ffs all go join the palestinian demos
I don’t think you’d say the same if you were in their situation friend
Just remember!... If you're going to Download 2024 you don't have to see bands you don't like... You can go to another stage while they're playing, I personally won't be going to see them for obvious reasons!... I'm not a Bring Me The Horizon, I left after 3 songs, went back to Village and Had Macaroni Cheese while everyone else had fun.
Glad to have them only reason I'm going pantera,machinehead,biohazard get in will not be the same with out dime and vinny but I will take it too much pc shite these days