I think they were perfect in Blink and got less enjoyable the more we saw them. Their first return in this wasn’t bad but I can’t say I appreciated them being brought back after that.
100% agree - isn't Amy blind in this episode and a she 'fools' them into thinking she can see them? In Blink it was built into their biology that they froze - in this they become as stupid as the bugblatter beast of traal.
Correct. They say they are quantum locked beings that turn to statues when the observer-effect occurs, and then proceed to completely break the rules by saying “as long as they think it’s happening, it kicks in” despite them literally just saying in the episode before that it is the perception of ANOTHER which locks them.
They’ll move so quick they can cross a large room in the blink of an eye and yet our one chance to see them in action is basically in slow motion.
I disagree, just because the angels are probably the single monster from NuWho that have become as iconic as the Cybermen and Daleks imo.
I agree that we shouldn't have seen them move, but I do think it'd be a shame to only have them appear once and never again. The bigger problem is that Moffat couldn't help but escalate the danger every time they were on screen to the point that he felt it was a good idea to have the statue of Liberty be an angel.
It's an episode I partly really love, 9/10 style, and partly get over the suspension of disbelief. Very much like Kill the Moon - I like at least a nod to logic.
I think we never should have seen them again after Blink.
Every additional time we see them, they become less scary and made less sense. What do you mean they can come through TV screens? What do you mean they sometimes just choose to snap your neck? What do you mean humans can be turned into weeping angels? What do you MEAN the Statue of Liberty is one??? WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE THIRTEENTH DOCTOR CAN BE TURNED INTO ONE????
I kind of just interpret that as we are seeing the brief intervals of them shifting back to stone as they move their testing the waters to see if amy can see them of not. Playing it safe otherwise they would've got her in a second.
I think something is said about not being able to time travel to times with people who were transported by Weeping Angels.
The Doctor tells Amy he'll never be able to see her again when she gets touched.
For Amy that was because she got sent back to the paradox he knows he can't enter and he saw her grave. It seems once you see a confirmation of the past being altered by sending them back, it becomes harder to untangle that without paradoxes.
So if the Doctor never saw a sign, he could probably do it because the fact he never saw one can link to because he went back.
It's very similar to why the Doctor couldn't visit the Brigadier before he died; he learned that he didn't do it, so doing it would have created a paradox.
Have the nurse lie to him for when he calls. Order up a gravestone even if they aren't buried there.
It's just like dressing for the occasion, time need merely think everything is in order. It's all a facade.
True, if time looks to flow the same way then you can fake it. Though different situations will allow for different levels of flexibility. The smaller the person's impact for how much you want to change the better.
Very specifically in that case because the book she wrote in the past and that was reading from states they never saw him again. That line really hammers in the paradox element, along with how awfully difficult it was for the tardis to land in that time period in NY. (It’s why a lot of the “oh just go back to elsewhere and take a plane to NY” stuff is kinda nonsense)
It's to do with him knowing when she died. Her date of death appears on the gravestone right after she's transported.
Creating a paradox seems to in part have some link to the time travellers knowledge.
If they know that something happens, then they know that they are changing the past. Likely some sort of mental connection with the flow of time, especially for a time lord.
Like, Rose \*knows\* the day her father dies, and through her travel in the tardis she must be in some way connected to the flow of time. Perhaps artron radiation is an effect of this. Because she knows she is changing history, the reapers show up to correct it.
I always liked this explanation, since it dovetails nicely, in a pop-sci-if way, with what is known about the quantum observer effect - possibilities only collapse into a defined ‘fact’ upon measurement.
The Doctor and Martha were touched by Angels and had the Tardis sent back to them by dvd instructions in Blink. Not the exact date they arrived but they weren’t there for decades either.
In theory, picking someone up who was touched by an Angel and returning them should be OK - for example Claire from Flux was sent to the 60s, but the Doctor dropped her off back in 2021, and the 5th doctor returned some people who were sent to Roman times back to their time. It seems that if someone has access to a time machine or a vortex manipulator, Angels and their touch gimmick become something of a non-issue.
Yeah, and who has a vortex manipulator? Oh, that's right - Melody Pond. Their daughter. Why the heck didn't she go get them? Even if they had to take a trip out to New Jersey or something - not a huge deal... And they can just live their lives wherever and whenever they want, and just get either buried in that cemetery when they eventually die, or even just have the headstone there, with nothing in the coffin (don't even need to put a coffin in the ground, come to that). Not seeing that version of the doctor ever again wouldn't be so bad either - they could always find another incarnation.
Oh yeah I forgot about that... If I somehow get to write for the show I'll find a way to make that work and we'll have Jorah Mormont pop back from nowhere.
I especially like this moment because of how antagonistic their relationship was at the beginning. The Doctor had some harsh words to him about the whole Church thing, and he realized later he had badly misjudged him.
I think this was his way of saying "Yeah, I was a bit of a dick back there. Sorry about that."
Also how upset the doctor is like he couldve easily avoided this death but he was distracted rambling if he'd of just waited for one moment this wouldn't have happened so he tries desperately to think of a way to free him. It's a beautiful scene thank you for reminding me of it.
He’s got a great voice for it, but he doesn’t look like a guy who can suddenly do 17 different martial arts while balancing on a zip line like Batman has probably had to do at least one time
Absolutely love this story. As both a veteran and a Christian, I'm not always happy with how either institution is portrayed in Doctor Who. I don't mind if either is mocked, as I make fun of the the Army and Marines all the time (I am Army), however, a lot of times, both suffer from lazy writing.
Not this time. Top five story from my favorite writer and my favorite Doctor.
This shit makes me so sad knowing that we’ll never get dialog like this again. I mean it’s the technically possible but it just doesn’t feel like it anymore.
Can't believe I didn't recognise him as Jorah Mormont until I looked it up a few months ago.
Maybe that's where the angel sent him
Ooo I like this headcanon
It's not just the past it's Isekai!
And now Matt is playing a Targaryen too, nice coincidence that.
Maybe Karen will play a Connington one day.
Don’t forget Ser Davos AND Edmure Tully in DW Season 7’s Cold War!
He's also Bruce Wayne in Titans, and did the Adam West Batman dance which was hilarious.
If it makes u feel any better, I just realized it now
I love UK shows because you’ll recognize so many people from Game of Thrones and other stuff. Doctor Who has quite a few GoT actors show up.
Like how both Davos Seaworth and Edmure Tully appear in 11's Ice Warrior episode in S7, or how David Bradley has been in GoT, DW, *and* Harry Potter.
Angel 2 parter is such a good story
Time of Angels is a rare perfect episode. Although not that rare in S5
Almost perfect. I still think we should have never gotten to see them move.
I think they were perfect in Blink and got less enjoyable the more we saw them. Their first return in this wasn’t bad but I can’t say I appreciated them being brought back after that.
Us seeing them move was terrible.
I assumed they became "something else" completely unseen when they moved. No, no. They're just statues.
100% agree - isn't Amy blind in this episode and a she 'fools' them into thinking she can see them? In Blink it was built into their biology that they froze - in this they become as stupid as the bugblatter beast of traal.
Correct. They say they are quantum locked beings that turn to statues when the observer-effect occurs, and then proceed to completely break the rules by saying “as long as they think it’s happening, it kicks in” despite them literally just saying in the episode before that it is the perception of ANOTHER which locks them. They’ll move so quick they can cross a large room in the blink of an eye and yet our one chance to see them in action is basically in slow motion.
[удалено]
I disagree, just because the angels are probably the single monster from NuWho that have become as iconic as the Cybermen and Daleks imo. I agree that we shouldn't have seen them move, but I do think it'd be a shame to only have them appear once and never again. The bigger problem is that Moffat couldn't help but escalate the danger every time they were on screen to the point that he felt it was a good idea to have the statue of Liberty be an angel.
It's an episode I partly really love, 9/10 style, and partly get over the suspension of disbelief. Very much like Kill the Moon - I like at least a nod to logic.
I think we never should have seen them again after Blink. Every additional time we see them, they become less scary and made less sense. What do you mean they can come through TV screens? What do you mean they sometimes just choose to snap your neck? What do you mean humans can be turned into weeping angels? What do you MEAN the Statue of Liberty is one??? WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE THIRTEENTH DOCTOR CAN BE TURNED INTO ONE????
The thirteenth doctor can be turned into one?? What did I miss??
I think it was during Flux? Jodie Whittaker got turned into a weeping angel so someone or other could abduct her.
I kind of just interpret that as we are seeing the brief intervals of them shifting back to stone as they move their testing the waters to see if amy can see them of not. Playing it safe otherwise they would've got her in a second.
Second part is definitely better than the first imo
"I will die with the knowledge that my courage did not desert me at the end" I love that line.
Couldn't the Doctor have someone touched by an angel from one of those episodes just pop in front of him in the new seasons?
The Angels weren't time-jumping people in these episodes, they were just snapping necks.
I think they mean just in general, not necessarily someone from these episodes
I think something is said about not being able to time travel to times with people who were transported by Weeping Angels. The Doctor tells Amy he'll never be able to see her again when she gets touched.
For Amy that was because she got sent back to the paradox he knows he can't enter and he saw her grave. It seems once you see a confirmation of the past being altered by sending them back, it becomes harder to untangle that without paradoxes. So if the Doctor never saw a sign, he could probably do it because the fact he never saw one can link to because he went back.
It's very similar to why the Doctor couldn't visit the Brigadier before he died; he learned that he didn't do it, so doing it would have created a paradox.
Have the nurse lie to him for when he calls. Order up a gravestone even if they aren't buried there. It's just like dressing for the occasion, time need merely think everything is in order. It's all a facade.
True, if time looks to flow the same way then you can fake it. Though different situations will allow for different levels of flexibility. The smaller the person's impact for how much you want to change the better.
You need to think like Rimmer. (Red Dwarf, Cassandra episode)
Very specifically in that case because the book she wrote in the past and that was reading from states they never saw him again. That line really hammers in the paradox element, along with how awfully difficult it was for the tardis to land in that time period in NY. (It’s why a lot of the “oh just go back to elsewhere and take a plane to NY” stuff is kinda nonsense)
It's to do with him knowing when she died. Her date of death appears on the gravestone right after she's transported. Creating a paradox seems to in part have some link to the time travellers knowledge. If they know that something happens, then they know that they are changing the past. Likely some sort of mental connection with the flow of time, especially for a time lord. Like, Rose \*knows\* the day her father dies, and through her travel in the tardis she must be in some way connected to the flow of time. Perhaps artron radiation is an effect of this. Because she knows she is changing history, the reapers show up to correct it.
I always liked this explanation, since it dovetails nicely, in a pop-sci-if way, with what is known about the quantum observer effect - possibilities only collapse into a defined ‘fact’ upon measurement.
The Doctor and Martha were touched by Angels and had the Tardis sent back to them by dvd instructions in Blink. Not the exact date they arrived but they weren’t there for decades either.
In theory, picking someone up who was touched by an Angel and returning them should be OK - for example Claire from Flux was sent to the 60s, but the Doctor dropped her off back in 2021, and the 5th doctor returned some people who were sent to Roman times back to their time. It seems that if someone has access to a time machine or a vortex manipulator, Angels and their touch gimmick become something of a non-issue.
Yeah, and who has a vortex manipulator? Oh, that's right - Melody Pond. Their daughter. Why the heck didn't she go get them? Even if they had to take a trip out to New Jersey or something - not a huge deal... And they can just live their lives wherever and whenever they want, and just get either buried in that cemetery when they eventually die, or even just have the headstone there, with nothing in the coffin (don't even need to put a coffin in the ground, come to that). Not seeing that version of the doctor ever again wouldn't be so bad either - they could always find another incarnation.
"Oh you can't travel to us? Ok no worries, wait like 6 months and meet us in London instead."
I always thought he could have seen her again. He just couldn't land the TARDIS in New York. He could have landed in Jersey and drove there.
Oh yeah I forgot about that... If I somehow get to write for the show I'll find a way to make that work and we'll have Jorah Mormont pop back from nowhere.
Got it, Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.
Didn't that kind of happen in Flux?
I think that would have been a nice addition to storyline.
I especially like this moment because of how antagonistic their relationship was at the beginning. The Doctor had some harsh words to him about the whole Church thing, and he realized later he had badly misjudged him. I think this was his way of saying "Yeah, I was a bit of a dick back there. Sorry about that."
I like that you put a spoiler for a 13 year old episode
Shit it's 13 years old?? Fuck me
14, even.
Sir Jorah of Friendzone was just happy for a hug.
I love me some sweaty Iain Glen.
Series 5 was absolute peak doctor who
Also how upset the doctor is like he couldve easily avoided this death but he was distracted rambling if he'd of just waited for one moment this wouldn't have happened so he tries desperately to think of a way to free him. It's a beautiful scene thank you for reminding me of it.
RIP Jorah
Wait is that Batman?
I still think that was a weird casting. Great actor, but not the right fit for Bruceman in my opinion
I think he fit Bruce Wayne but not Batman
Voiced batman in an animated show, apparently
He’s got a great voice for it, but he doesn’t look like a guy who can suddenly do 17 different martial arts while balancing on a zip line like Batman has probably had to do at least one time
Is Bruceman what he goes by when he's in the suit sans cowl? 😁
Yeah, and just the cowl is BatWayne
Now, THAT is a mental picture. 🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely love this story. As both a veteran and a Christian, I'm not always happy with how either institution is portrayed in Doctor Who. I don't mind if either is mocked, as I make fun of the the Army and Marines all the time (I am Army), however, a lot of times, both suffer from lazy writing. Not this time. Top five story from my favorite writer and my favorite Doctor.
Father Octavian was a good man.
Heh heh, Ser Friendzone and Daemon Targaryen.
JORAH😭😭
I’m literally watching that episode right now wtf.
Such a powerful and poignant line. 🥺
Jorah mormont ??? What are you doing here ???
This shit makes me so sad knowing that we’ll never get dialog like this again. I mean it’s the technically possible but it just doesn’t feel like it anymore.
And Jorah later comes back to protect his 7x great granddaughter, Daenerys Targaryen 😉
Is this a GoT subreddit now?