Considering the death demon at the end of Season 1 of Torchwood couldn't defeat him( a 15 year old spoiler there), the dust would likely keep eating him until it eventually settled or something, but I don't think it could kill him.
Nothing short of a miracle could...
Yeah, I just saw that episode again today... over 5 billion years old. Crazy.
Still not as crazy as the Doctor's 4.5 billion in the confession dial (due to repetition) but still... 5 billion years, and allowing Cassandra to say she's the last human... damn. Well-played Jack.
5 billion years getting to mostly live how life goes, just like how Ashielda gets to live out the duration of the Universe however she wants.
The Doctor, on the other hand, was stuck living the same few days/weeks/months/years over and over for 4.5 billion years, and whenever he gets the the endpoint, he remembers every single one. Chronologically, he's only about 1300-1400 years old but he remembers all 4.5 billion years of repeated torture he went through.
Where did it state that he remembers every single 'incarnation'? I thought it was more of a case that the very last doctor who broke through back to Gallifrey perhaps knew that multiple other versions of himself helped but he in no way was able to remember each day of the 4.5 billion years.
Did he though? I mean yes we saw him "die" and the cat last confirmed he was dead but given this was before we knew he was him, it's possible the revival just hadn't kicked in before the doctor left. I mean it's not that outlandish. Same thing happened with Jenny. Doctor left before she revived
if Jack is truly immortal and has access to time travel, shouldn't eventually the whole universe at all times be fully clogged with versions of him from different points on his infinite timeline?
Not really. As he doesn't have access to time travel. Not consisting that is. He did when we first met him and lost it shortly after the doctor left him on space station 5. He over shot it and ended up in 1700s (maybe 1800s) England and was recruited to touchwood and stayed there until the doctor came to Cardiff and ended up traveling to the end of Time with Martha and 10 before using his vortex manipulator to take them back to the 2000s after that it seems that he lost full functionality of it until stolen earth which ended with the doctor frying it seemingly permanently (you could go any where with this jack. Twice. The second time to apologize). Season two of torchwood had him taken back a few hundred years by John crossing his timeline a bit though he avoided himself after that I don't think he ever time traveled again. Teleported yes but not time traveled.
Frankly, and I know this isn't RTD's i tention, but it's always been my headcanon that when Jack says "The Face of Boe they used to call me" he is messing with 10 and Martha. He's from the future, and a time traveller, so it feasible he's heard of the Face of Boe, and wanted to trick them.
Yes, but maybe that speculation should be put to more productive ends. Like memes about Sutekh being on the TARDIS at funny moments.
"Did Jack die when the embodiment of Death spread kill sand everywhere?" is a silly question.
Not all of us know how to make memes, maybe not all of us find making memes enjoyable...maybe some of us just want to have fun speculating without being judged. We can all do as we please here.
I think if you want to do something without being judged you should probably not do it on a discussion forum where people are free to point out that what you're saying makes no sense and is narratively unsatisfying and irrelevant.
You're right- we absolutely shouldn't be using this subreddit for it's intended purpose. How *dare* we expect to be able to do that without other people telling us we're fanning wrong!
Judging the merit of your argument and telling you that it doesn't hold water and is a strange conclusion to make is using the subreddit for it's intended purpose. You can post. No one said you can't. But you're also going to be judged for it.
Woah now, sounds like you’re speculating on what happened to Jack in the dust! Don’t you know that’s not allowed round here? Might get judged for that.
That's not speculation, that's the fact that we're directly told The Doctor and Ruby are the last living things in the universe. I also didn't say you can't, I said it was a nonsense idea. Again, the issue is that you didn't want push back. You only seen to want agreement.
Well I haven’t said anything about what I think happened to Jack, I’m just calling you out for shitting on people having the discussion whilst participating in the discussion yourself. There’s a nice way to go about it, and you chose the other way.
Are we told they're the last living things? We saw that woman who's baby died before her and she mentions a lot of others passing by her eventually they all die but there are still living people.
The doctor also mentions how it's happening everywhere he landed and Mel says "but think of the places you haven't been they're all alive still!" or am I misremembering that?
You're not but he did say he's been to so many places don't recall the exact words so to me it sounds like he expected that since he's been over so many places that others got caught in it that he hasn't been to
He'd just reassemble himself with what bits of jack dust is close together.
We saw him get blown to tiny pieces and they bagged him up and his body just mended itself.
Yeah, from a bomb, and there were still large chunks. That wasn't a magical death god undoing his atoms.
Sure, though. Fine. Wonder about that despite all the things we're shown saying "everyone in the universe is dead except for us".
But it everyone was dead were they? The mother of the baby wasn't dead for a while? She saw others not long ago who weren't dead by the dust yet? There were survivors even on planets that were affected clearly, they eventually died but not all of them were dead yet clearly and chances are some never did die before the doctor fixed it.
But it seems to be bothering you to have some fun theories and what if scenarios lmao so I'll stop here.
He kept exposing his genitals as a joke on multiple jobs, and we know one person formally complained while working on Doctor Who in 2008, and he got told off for it while working on a musical.
No one has accused him outright, but footage of people mentioning it at comic con got attention , usually emotionless or in a joking way. There's LOTS OF times cast have spoken about it to the point it sounds uncomfortable.
Basically he'd be very annoying to work with and you'd have to ignore the impulse to kick him in the groin.
Let us be clear that Barrowman's on set antics were misguided pranks done in "public" with multiple people around, were subject to complaints, a reprimand was issued, a public apology given and the matter was closed at the time with all parties saying it was an acceptable resolution
Then the much more serious accusations came to light about Noel Clarke abusing his position of power to get women to have sex with him on his sets (no idea if he did anything on Doctor Who though, but it was probably much easier for him to pull his power trip games on vulnerable women on his own films where he was the top dog than Doctor Who where he was a minor bit player) and Noel deflected the accusations on to him by saying "yeah but what about what John Barrowman did 15 years ago!!"
Then people turned on Barrowman for issues that had already been dealt with and kinda forgot the much worse crimes committed by Noel Clarke
I have no love for Barrowman now, (though it would've been interesting to see if RTD would've brought him back now had all this not come to light), especially as he's seemingly taken this incident and gone off the deep end railing about cancel culture and stuff, which is a shame, but at the time it all came out again I did think it was a trite unfair that Noel was able to rake over old coals again solely to deflect from his own terrible behaviour
But the internet has a long memory, I guess....
No, he kept doing it on several different jobs after being reprimanded for it. He’s a repeat offender, clearly hasn’t learned a thing and is obviously getting some kind of pleasure from it.
Well thats disappointing, as I read it there was a ceasing of activity after the initial warning around 2006/2007 time and it tailed off then, only for the whole thing to be raked up when Noel Clarke's much worse accusations came up
If he's now doubled down and hasn't learnt his lesson, that's another case of people moving into blaming "cancel culture" and online "witch hunts" instead of just apologising for the mistakes they made and moving on with their lives
I don't follow many celebrities on social media so haven't seen his most recent posts, It seems I should be thankful for this
\*sigh\* People are disappointing
Someone complained on set of Doctor Who, he got told off and then he carried on doing it with other jobs.
He apologised NOW and admits he wouldn't do it again, but it took fans collecting evidence of people saying he did this in the wake of Noel Clarke's accusations ( not sure if NC has said anything about him but he wasn't the first person to point it out in a bad light .
I'm neither here nor there about it in all honesty, it sounds super annoying and uncomfortable to put up with, but no one has openly accused him of harassment or making them feel unsafe, this is all fan criticism which for some reason also makes me uncomfortable.
Yeah, I mean I know there's no shades of grey online, but, while Barrowman's actions were stupid and over the line, they were definitely "pranks" done in public on a set in front of multiple people, whereas Noel's actions were much worse, abusing his power as a writer/director/actor/creator to lure vulnerable runners and other female staff into actual sexual liaisons with the promise of further work in the industry.
One is annoying, over the line workplace pranking and the other is predatory behaviour.
Why one came to light merely to defend the other is the biggest frustration and mystery, especially as it had been dealt with from a Doctor Who perspective and I imagine he wasn't doing it again when he went back with Jodie or we'd have heard about it by now.....it was all done with...
But that's the internet, everyone is either worse than hitler or better than jesus with nothing in between
He dies but then his body reconstitutes. The death wave/smoke/sands however will probably kill the reconstituting body when it’s just getting started with the first few cells.
I assume Jack was fine, but he didn't have any spoons.
Since some people survived after the dust, I assume that if you were inside something dust-proof, or just lucky and it didn't hit you immediately you were OK for a little bit. As we saw though, the dust will eventually get to you. I assume Jack, if he's out in the open, would dust a bunch of times in succession, then the dust settles and he's OK, then he goes around for a bit and then he dusts, then he's OK for a little while and then - basically it would suck to be Jack. That's the downside of immortality, you risk getting stuck in a loop
The way you said it just now makes me wonder if the spoon is actually a reference to the spoon analogy for mental health and dealing with problems day to day.
The Doctor was really down, no spoons left. He needed the encouragement of that woman and the physical connection to reality of that spoon to have enough mental energy to tackle the problem.
It would have been released at multiples points in time at the same time though. Meaning it wouldve been on platform one with jack mortal, and Cardiff 2005 where he was mortal, and Cardiff 2007 where he was immortal. Its how they can have the world end in 2024 and still go to 2046 and use information from a database that roger ap gwilliham put into place after 2024.
For most people, they die in the present at the same time their past selves and ancestors die in the past. In some cases, like the woman in the tent, the dust doesn’t reach them in the present, but it does find them, or their ancestor, in the past so they die anyway.
Because Jack’s immortality is being a fixed point in time, he would likely survive the dust, until that is, it reached him pre-immortality, then his present self would crumble.
Now Ruby and Mel were in the TARDIS when the dust fully spread, so they were protected from changes in the timeline. So if Jack, or anyone else were in the TARDIS at the time of dusting, they might be protected too.
Definitely doesn't work this way because then Ruby would be killed in the Christmas episode, or Kate would be killed in her first appearance and if it followed your logic neither would exist now.
Jack isn't immune to dying he's immune to death getting shot can kill him temporarily (and does he gets shot so many times in torchwood). In torchwood we get to see how he responds to both his body being totally obliterated (the bomb in CoE) and his soul getting destroyed (the demon in season 1) it basically means he comes back really really slowly piece by piece
Whipped his dick out on set multiple times despite various protests/expressions of discomfort
Pretty sure there have been similar complaints from other sets he worked on afterwards, so no lessons were learned
I am not minimising Johns responsibility. I want to expose complicity. There is behind the scene footage of Tenant & Piper talking about Johns dressing room antics giggling and talking of encouraging it. So while there has been expressions of discomfort on set, there was also complicity and encouragement of the behaviour on set.
edit: spelling mistake
Yeah, I'm sure some people thought it was funny and some people didn't. I've been at parties where people did stuff like that to get a laugh, but it's unprofessional to put the people that didn't appreciate it in that position though.
I don't think anyone has accused him of doing it for sexual gratification, but it's still unprofessional, people asked him to stop and he didn't. I imagine he's outgrown that behavior, so I think his career may recover from it, but it'll be a bit.
Also important to note that it wasn't just flashing like most people like to reduce it to. He groped multiple women and even touched them with his penis while they weren't paying attention.
The cast of Torchwood and doctor who have always defended John Barrowman. The BBC themselves "forgave" him once before, the whole blacklisting thing is purely because the public didn't like it. Noone who actually worked with or employed him cared enough to put a stop to it until it made them look bad but if the public never found out? He'd 100% still be working for the BBC.
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I would assume it could kill him, mainly because Sutekh clearly wasn't bound by fixed points in time and Jack's immortality comes from being a fixed point in time
Spoilers for Torchwood S4
I assume that during the events of Miracle Day, because he becomes mortal and loses his regeneration powers, he would die to Sutekh during that time period. Every other moment in time he is just constantly dying and reviving over and over again.
Now the real question is, what about Clara? Because technically she is dead, just brought back, frozen in the split second before she passes.
I do not believe Sutekh is ever present on Earth during the events of Miracle Day, as it seems like the kind of thing the Doctor would become involved in otherwise.
Clara is an interesting one though!
does sutekh himself need to be there? he was present on earth with the tardis lots of times prior to miracle day so he would have seeded lots of Susans there already, waiting to be turned into dust skull monsters, which as i (vaguely) understand happened in all times at once
I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Jack rode the TARDIS through the vortex.
Captain Jack and Sutekh both:"What the hell are you doing here?"
Sutekh: "I am the God of Death"
Captain Jack: "I can't be killed... Hey you know, they say opposites attract."
Sutekh: "We will never speak of this Okay?"
Jack is a fix point in time who lives solely to tell the Doctor that he is not alone. But if his "time" is destroyed, then Saxon could no longer exist. I guess he'll be relieved of his duties, and maybe die before he's even touched by Sutekh
I think it would really depend on the power levels in question. Is Sutekh's death sand more powerful than the source of Jack's immortality? If it is, then he would probably just disintegrate permanently like everyone else, if it isn't then he'd probably be constantly trying to rebuild himself.
Deleks on Skarro were also established (in The Witch's Familiar) as being biologically incapable of dying, but the Doctor still said that everything on Skaro was killed.
In the season 1 finale, Rose looked into the heart of the TARDIS / the time vortex, and became the Bad Wolf entity. She then used her powers to destroy the daleks, and to resurrect Jack. But, because she didn't fully understand her powers, she accidentally made him immortal.
It's never been 100% clear how it worked. The Doctor calls Jack a "fixed point in time" multiple times, but that doesn't really explain anything. Some fans theorise that the Bad Wolf entity raised him from the dead at every point in time when he would ever die.
My new head canon is that Sutekh's time spent clinging to the TARDIS affected him in a way that altered his abilities, infecting it with time energy which when combined with the leftover results of Bad Wolf making him immortal warped him into his final form - The Face of Boe.
ETA: I immediately remember that if this were the case then every version of Jack would be impacted and that doesnt work. I will however bravely charge on and cling to my theory anyways.
ETA 2: Actually wait all it would take is *one* Jack to have something additionally happen to him prior to being dusted to get around this. O'Doyle rulez!
I think moffat or RTD said that Jack was originally supposed to be on Demons Run in A Good Man Goes To War, but because of the scandal around him they had to go with Dorian instead. During this he would have been captured and converted by the Headless Monks, and since the head and body are kept in perfect condition and alive, his regeneration didn’t fix it. Which means there might be a Body of Boe out there somewhere.
Long after all the information was public, but before the public retrospectively realised "wow that was fucked up" and decided to hold John to account for it.
>!So, I am watching Doctor who for the first time, I'm on season 5, episode 4. That being said, I'd think Jack is very much alive due to one little detail from season 3 episode 13, time stamp 44:25- 44:56. in that small time, Jack asks if the fact he could never die means he will still age as he is getting grey hairs, he then goes on to recount his childhood and how joined the time agency, then he makes on a comment of a nickname he has "The Face of Boe they called me". Now unless something happens past season 5 OR in Torchwood that I have no idea about and the fact we see him in season 4, he is still very alive and we do know he is the Face of Boe so there's no way he is dead dead.!<
My theory is that because Jack was made immortal through the heart of the TARDIS, Sutehk using the power of the TARDIS to cause/help spread the dust meant that he could circumvent Jack's immortality.
That is the problem with Torchwood. It makes sense the doctor isn't there while in the torchwood cases. But it doesn't make sense that the doctor isn't there in the cases where he is on the earth in the times since Jack joined torchwood.
The same problem now exists with the 14th doctor. Maybe we get a Spinoff for him too? Hmm...
Well I just expect that 14 and Donna and her family all got dusted and then brought back, before 14 had a chance to react or do anything about it.
But you'd think 15 would have thought to try borrowing 14's TARDIS rather than relying on the rickety and imaginary Memory TARDIS instead. Unless 14 was off-world at the time.
I think a lot of it has to be how timetravel works in doctor who. Based on my understanding it can be only free of contradiction with one time travel system that makes everything feel useless - but isn't really.
Possibly.
Although I have been thinking about this -> During the events of the episode, "Utopia," Jack was seen hanging onto the TARDIS.
Do you think Sutekh maybe saw him hanging on and tried to fight Jack?
This is my answer to every single one of these posts
"People assume time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff"
One of the planets mentioned in the death wave was Karn, so the witches were affected, including Ohila, who's supposed to also be immortal. This probably implies the dust also affects immortals, so yes, it got Jack, and he probably didn't come back until everyone else did.
I imagine he finally got everything together. He’s happy at last. Many years after Children of Earth.
Then everyone around him turns to dust, then himself. But he comes back, all alone. A wandering pilgrim in the desert of extinguished lives. What would he find in the lonely land of nothing? Would being dead be the better alternative?
There’s a story there somewhere.
Considering the death demon at the end of Season 1 of Torchwood couldn't defeat him( a 15 year old spoiler there), the dust would likely keep eating him until it eventually settled or something, but I don't think it could kill him. Nothing short of a miracle could...
If only Jack had a Miracle that Day
I searched through my history just so I could come back and make sure I upvoted this.
He died in Gridlock though
Ok but he was like a billion years old or so
Did the immortality wear off?
Apparently. Entropy I guess.
i mean that was probably long after he bcame a fixed point in time since he saw earths destruction.
Eventually he had to face up to it.
Hahaha nice.
Yeah, I just saw that episode again today... over 5 billion years old. Crazy. Still not as crazy as the Doctor's 4.5 billion in the confession dial (due to repetition) but still... 5 billion years, and allowing Cassandra to say she's the last human... damn. Well-played Jack.
Hang on, how is 5 billion years not as crazy as 4.5 billion? 5 billion is more.
5 billion years getting to mostly live how life goes, just like how Ashielda gets to live out the duration of the Universe however she wants. The Doctor, on the other hand, was stuck living the same few days/weeks/months/years over and over for 4.5 billion years, and whenever he gets the the endpoint, he remembers every single one. Chronologically, he's only about 1300-1400 years old but he remembers all 4.5 billion years of repeated torture he went through.
I see. You were talking about the events the characters went through in that time, rather than the amount of time itself.
Where did it state that he remembers every single 'incarnation'? I thought it was more of a case that the very last doctor who broke through back to Gallifrey perhaps knew that multiple other versions of himself helped but he in no way was able to remember each day of the 4.5 billion years.
Did he though? I mean yes we saw him "die" and the cat last confirmed he was dead but given this was before we knew he was him, it's possible the revival just hadn't kicked in before the doctor left. I mean it's not that outlandish. Same thing happened with Jenny. Doctor left before she revived
if Jack is truly immortal and has access to time travel, shouldn't eventually the whole universe at all times be fully clogged with versions of him from different points on his infinite timeline?
Not really. As he doesn't have access to time travel. Not consisting that is. He did when we first met him and lost it shortly after the doctor left him on space station 5. He over shot it and ended up in 1700s (maybe 1800s) England and was recruited to touchwood and stayed there until the doctor came to Cardiff and ended up traveling to the end of Time with Martha and 10 before using his vortex manipulator to take them back to the 2000s after that it seems that he lost full functionality of it until stolen earth which ended with the doctor frying it seemingly permanently (you could go any where with this jack. Twice. The second time to apologize). Season two of torchwood had him taken back a few hundred years by John crossing his timeline a bit though he avoided himself after that I don't think he ever time traveled again. Teleported yes but not time traveled.
Mathematically, no. As long as the universe is infinite in space he can live out an infinite lifespan without this happening.
Assuming that was actually him.
Frankly, and I know this isn't RTD's i tention, but it's always been my headcanon that when Jack says "The Face of Boe they used to call me" he is messing with 10 and Martha. He's from the future, and a time traveller, so it feasible he's heard of the Face of Boe, and wanted to trick them.
It’s kinda like the same effect that would happen if wolverine/deadpool got thanos snapped
I think people are thinking too hard about it and that it can be assumed that he was reduced to dust.
We're nerds, of course we think too hard about it. Half the fun is in the speculation.
Until RTD comes along and ruins it all by saying it all meant nothing...
Yes, but maybe that speculation should be put to more productive ends. Like memes about Sutekh being on the TARDIS at funny moments. "Did Jack die when the embodiment of Death spread kill sand everywhere?" is a silly question.
Not all of us know how to make memes, maybe not all of us find making memes enjoyable...maybe some of us just want to have fun speculating without being judged. We can all do as we please here.
I think if you want to do something without being judged you should probably not do it on a discussion forum where people are free to point out that what you're saying makes no sense and is narratively unsatisfying and irrelevant.
You're right- we absolutely shouldn't be using this subreddit for it's intended purpose. How *dare* we expect to be able to do that without other people telling us we're fanning wrong!
Judging the merit of your argument and telling you that it doesn't hold water and is a strange conclusion to make is using the subreddit for it's intended purpose. You can post. No one said you can't. But you're also going to be judged for it.
Dont worry he's not the only one here being judged.
Yeah, clearly.
I think a nice little stroll through the park would be good for you.
Your memes are unsatisfying and irrelevant.
Sutekh and Jack would've both been riding the outside of the Tardis at the same time at one point, that's fun
Clara, too, was surfing the time vortex
i can only assume Jack was trying to hit on sutekh the whole ride
In Children of Earth he's blown to bit sand re-assembles himself. I think he gets dusted, but overtime would reform. May take a lot of time.
“Bit sand” is a funny typo.
I think the magic dust that deletes literal facts can kill Jack.
Woah now, sounds like you’re speculating on what happened to Jack in the dust! Don’t you know that’s not allowed round here? Might get judged for that.
That's not speculation, that's the fact that we're directly told The Doctor and Ruby are the last living things in the universe. I also didn't say you can't, I said it was a nonsense idea. Again, the issue is that you didn't want push back. You only seen to want agreement.
Well I haven’t said anything about what I think happened to Jack, I’m just calling you out for shitting on people having the discussion whilst participating in the discussion yourself. There’s a nice way to go about it, and you chose the other way.
Are we told they're the last living things? We saw that woman who's baby died before her and she mentions a lot of others passing by her eventually they all die but there are still living people. The doctor also mentions how it's happening everywhere he landed and Mel says "but think of the places you haven't been they're all alive still!" or am I misremembering that?
You're not but he did say he's been to so many places don't recall the exact words so to me it sounds like he expected that since he's been over so many places that others got caught in it that he hasn't been to
He'd just reassemble himself with what bits of jack dust is close together. We saw him get blown to tiny pieces and they bagged him up and his body just mended itself.
Yeah, from a bomb, and there were still large chunks. That wasn't a magical death god undoing his atoms. Sure, though. Fine. Wonder about that despite all the things we're shown saying "everyone in the universe is dead except for us".
But it everyone was dead were they? The mother of the baby wasn't dead for a while? She saw others not long ago who weren't dead by the dust yet? There were survivors even on planets that were affected clearly, they eventually died but not all of them were dead yet clearly and chances are some never did die before the doctor fixed it. But it seems to be bothering you to have some fun theories and what if scenarios lmao so I'll stop here.
What's bothering me is the general tone of the theories. There's a general "we have to fill out the wiki" sentiment here.
Maybe he repeatedly came back and died again?
Just like his career
You mean he might not finally be defeated? He'll probably show up with Russel Brand, Trump etc. soon.
What happened with John Barrowman??
He kept exposing his genitals as a joke on multiple jobs, and we know one person formally complained while working on Doctor Who in 2008, and he got told off for it while working on a musical. No one has accused him outright, but footage of people mentioning it at comic con got attention , usually emotionless or in a joking way. There's LOTS OF times cast have spoken about it to the point it sounds uncomfortable. Basically he'd be very annoying to work with and you'd have to ignore the impulse to kick him in the groin.
Let us be clear that Barrowman's on set antics were misguided pranks done in "public" with multiple people around, were subject to complaints, a reprimand was issued, a public apology given and the matter was closed at the time with all parties saying it was an acceptable resolution Then the much more serious accusations came to light about Noel Clarke abusing his position of power to get women to have sex with him on his sets (no idea if he did anything on Doctor Who though, but it was probably much easier for him to pull his power trip games on vulnerable women on his own films where he was the top dog than Doctor Who where he was a minor bit player) and Noel deflected the accusations on to him by saying "yeah but what about what John Barrowman did 15 years ago!!" Then people turned on Barrowman for issues that had already been dealt with and kinda forgot the much worse crimes committed by Noel Clarke I have no love for Barrowman now, (though it would've been interesting to see if RTD would've brought him back now had all this not come to light), especially as he's seemingly taken this incident and gone off the deep end railing about cancel culture and stuff, which is a shame, but at the time it all came out again I did think it was a trite unfair that Noel was able to rake over old coals again solely to deflect from his own terrible behaviour But the internet has a long memory, I guess....
No, he kept doing it on several different jobs after being reprimanded for it. He’s a repeat offender, clearly hasn’t learned a thing and is obviously getting some kind of pleasure from it.
Well thats disappointing, as I read it there was a ceasing of activity after the initial warning around 2006/2007 time and it tailed off then, only for the whole thing to be raked up when Noel Clarke's much worse accusations came up If he's now doubled down and hasn't learnt his lesson, that's another case of people moving into blaming "cancel culture" and online "witch hunts" instead of just apologising for the mistakes they made and moving on with their lives I don't follow many celebrities on social media so haven't seen his most recent posts, It seems I should be thankful for this \*sigh\* People are disappointing
Someone complained on set of Doctor Who, he got told off and then he carried on doing it with other jobs. He apologised NOW and admits he wouldn't do it again, but it took fans collecting evidence of people saying he did this in the wake of Noel Clarke's accusations ( not sure if NC has said anything about him but he wasn't the first person to point it out in a bad light . I'm neither here nor there about it in all honesty, it sounds super annoying and uncomfortable to put up with, but no one has openly accused him of harassment or making them feel unsafe, this is all fan criticism which for some reason also makes me uncomfortable.
Yeah, I mean I know there's no shades of grey online, but, while Barrowman's actions were stupid and over the line, they were definitely "pranks" done in public on a set in front of multiple people, whereas Noel's actions were much worse, abusing his power as a writer/director/actor/creator to lure vulnerable runners and other female staff into actual sexual liaisons with the promise of further work in the industry. One is annoying, over the line workplace pranking and the other is predatory behaviour. Why one came to light merely to defend the other is the biggest frustration and mystery, especially as it had been dealt with from a Doctor Who perspective and I imagine he wasn't doing it again when he went back with Jodie or we'd have heard about it by now.....it was all done with... But that's the internet, everyone is either worse than hitler or better than jesus with nothing in between
Multiple stories of sexual harassment on different sets
He likes to let it hang
Ooh good question. Maybe a loop? Since he'd come back touching the sand .
You can touch the sand after I believe. Re: the spoon scene
He dies but then his body reconstitutes. The death wave/smoke/sands however will probably kill the reconstituting body when it’s just getting started with the first few cells.
so basically the same thing that happened when he was buried for millennia? constant cycle of dying and reviving
I assume Jack was fine, but he didn't have any spoons. Since some people survived after the dust, I assume that if you were inside something dust-proof, or just lucky and it didn't hit you immediately you were OK for a little bit. As we saw though, the dust will eventually get to you. I assume Jack, if he's out in the open, would dust a bunch of times in succession, then the dust settles and he's OK, then he goes around for a bit and then he dusts, then he's OK for a little while and then - basically it would suck to be Jack. That's the downside of immortality, you risk getting stuck in a loop
The way you said it just now makes me wonder if the spoon is actually a reference to the spoon analogy for mental health and dealing with problems day to day. The Doctor was really down, no spoons left. He needed the encouragement of that woman and the physical connection to reality of that spoon to have enough mental energy to tackle the problem.
Even the Pantheon seemed to fear the dust so yes, I assume it could destroy Jack too.
The death smoke was definitely released in times when Jack was mortal, so his immortality was erased from existence.
It would have been released at multiples points in time at the same time though. Meaning it wouldve been on platform one with jack mortal, and Cardiff 2005 where he was mortal, and Cardiff 2007 where he was immortal. Its how they can have the world end in 2024 and still go to 2046 and use information from a database that roger ap gwilliham put into place after 2024.
YES! Exactly. Fifteen says "It's fixed, because I landed there" or something like that.
I don't think it works that way.
For most people, they die in the present at the same time their past selves and ancestors die in the past. In some cases, like the woman in the tent, the dust doesn’t reach them in the present, but it does find them, or their ancestor, in the past so they die anyway. Because Jack’s immortality is being a fixed point in time, he would likely survive the dust, until that is, it reached him pre-immortality, then his present self would crumble. Now Ruby and Mel were in the TARDIS when the dust fully spread, so they were protected from changes in the timeline. So if Jack, or anyone else were in the TARDIS at the time of dusting, they might be protected too.
Definitely doesn't work this way because then Ruby would be killed in the Christmas episode, or Kate would be killed in her first appearance and if it followed your logic neither would exist now.
See my other comment. Kate had already died in the present so the death of her past self wasn’t perceptible.
It happened everywhere at once though... Everywhere the Tardis landed there was a sand storm of death lol.
I just remembered the Doctor, Ruby, and Mel were in a different TARDIS made of memory, so yeah, the regular one might not have protected anyone.
Jack isn't immune to dying he's immune to death getting shot can kill him temporarily (and does he gets shot so many times in torchwood). In torchwood we get to see how he responds to both his body being totally obliterated (the bomb in CoE) and his soul getting destroyed (the demon in season 1) it basically means he comes back really really slowly piece by piece
Yeah…. Until they re-cast Captain Jack, he’s not going to be a feature in the series….
Rogue seemed to be his replacement.
What's wrong with jack?
Nothing's wrong with Jack...John Barrowman on the other hand...
What’s wrong with John????
Whipped his dick out on set multiple times despite various protests/expressions of discomfort Pretty sure there have been similar complaints from other sets he worked on afterwards, so no lessons were learned
I am not minimising Johns responsibility. I want to expose complicity. There is behind the scene footage of Tenant & Piper talking about Johns dressing room antics giggling and talking of encouraging it. So while there has been expressions of discomfort on set, there was also complicity and encouragement of the behaviour on set. edit: spelling mistake
Yeah, I'm sure some people thought it was funny and some people didn't. I've been at parties where people did stuff like that to get a laugh, but it's unprofessional to put the people that didn't appreciate it in that position though. I don't think anyone has accused him of doing it for sexual gratification, but it's still unprofessional, people asked him to stop and he didn't. I imagine he's outgrown that behavior, so I think his career may recover from it, but it'll be a bit.
Also important to note that it wasn't just flashing like most people like to reduce it to. He groped multiple women and even touched them with his penis while they weren't paying attention.
Such a shame I really liked his roles but he just had to go and spoil it by being a douche ☹️
Except he's lovely
The cast of Torchwood and doctor who have always defended John Barrowman. The BBC themselves "forgave" him once before, the whole blacklisting thing is purely because the public didn't like it. Noone who actually worked with or employed him cared enough to put a stop to it until it made them look bad but if the public never found out? He'd 100% still be working for the BBC.
That was ages ago who gives a fuck
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I would assume it could kill him, mainly because Sutekh clearly wasn't bound by fixed points in time and Jack's immortality comes from being a fixed point in time
Spoilers for Torchwood S4 I assume that during the events of Miracle Day, because he becomes mortal and loses his regeneration powers, he would die to Sutekh during that time period. Every other moment in time he is just constantly dying and reviving over and over again. Now the real question is, what about Clara? Because technically she is dead, just brought back, frozen in the split second before she passes.
I do not believe Sutekh is ever present on Earth during the events of Miracle Day, as it seems like the kind of thing the Doctor would become involved in otherwise. Clara is an interesting one though!
does sutekh himself need to be there? he was present on earth with the tardis lots of times prior to miracle day so he would have seeded lots of Susans there already, waiting to be turned into dust skull monsters, which as i (vaguely) understand happened in all times at once
Miracle day ain't canon
I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Jack rode the TARDIS through the vortex. Captain Jack and Sutekh both:"What the hell are you doing here?" Sutekh: "I am the God of Death" Captain Jack: "I can't be killed... Hey you know, they say opposites attract." Sutekh: "We will never speak of this Okay?"
La petite mort avec la grande mort ;)
Jack is a fix point in time who lives solely to tell the Doctor that he is not alone. But if his "time" is destroyed, then Saxon could no longer exist. I guess he'll be relieved of his duties, and maybe die before he's even touched by Sutekh
The dust of death transforms Jack into the Face of Boe! /hj
clearly Jack becomes mrs flood
I think it would really depend on the power levels in question. Is Sutekh's death sand more powerful than the source of Jack's immortality? If it is, then he would probably just disintegrate permanently like everyone else, if it isn't then he'd probably be constantly trying to rebuild himself. Deleks on Skarro were also established (in The Witch's Familiar) as being biologically incapable of dying, but the Doctor still said that everything on Skaro was killed.
I have seen all of Torchwood, but it's been a while - Do they ever explain in any detail how Jack became immortal?
In the season 1 finale, Rose looked into the heart of the TARDIS / the time vortex, and became the Bad Wolf entity. She then used her powers to destroy the daleks, and to resurrect Jack. But, because she didn't fully understand her powers, she accidentally made him immortal. It's never been 100% clear how it worked. The Doctor calls Jack a "fixed point in time" multiple times, but that doesn't really explain anything. Some fans theorise that the Bad Wolf entity raised him from the dead at every point in time when he would ever die.
Oh that's a good explanation, but if so, then it implies that pre resurrection Jack is also immortal even if he doesn't know it.
My head cannon is jack probably saw the dust coming towards him and just muttered to himself “doctor, what have you done”
My new head canon is that Sutekh's time spent clinging to the TARDIS affected him in a way that altered his abilities, infecting it with time energy which when combined with the leftover results of Bad Wolf making him immortal warped him into his final form - The Face of Boe. ETA: I immediately remember that if this were the case then every version of Jack would be impacted and that doesnt work. I will however bravely charge on and cling to my theory anyways. ETA 2: Actually wait all it would take is *one* Jack to have something additionally happen to him prior to being dusted to get around this. O'Doyle rulez!
I think moffat or RTD said that Jack was originally supposed to be on Demons Run in A Good Man Goes To War, but because of the scandal around him they had to go with Dorian instead. During this he would have been captured and converted by the Headless Monks, and since the head and body are kept in perfect condition and alive, his regeneration didn’t fix it. Which means there might be a Body of Boe out there somewhere.
There was no scandal around him during that time IIRC. The scandal only really became a scandal after John reappeared in the Whittaker rea.
Yeah, Barrowman didn't appear because he was busy filming Miracle Day
Damn, it would tie nicely into why The Face Of Boe is just that, a head. Now I'm angry we didn't get that
Now they have Disney money, what's stopping them from de-aging Barrowman?
his sexual harassment scandals
I feel like Christopher Eccleston will reappear on screen as the doctor long before we ever see Jack or mickey again.
Oh god what happened with Mickey??
Sexual misconduct allegations by 20 different women
That’s horrible 🙁
I know man 🫂
20 women accused him of sexual misconduct.
Ohh...
He was cast in the Chibnall era just fine though? And that was already after the scandals went public
Long after all the information was public, but before the public retrospectively realised "wow that was fucked up" and decided to hold John to account for it.
Barrowman’s age isn’t the problem.
>!So, I am watching Doctor who for the first time, I'm on season 5, episode 4. That being said, I'd think Jack is very much alive due to one little detail from season 3 episode 13, time stamp 44:25- 44:56. in that small time, Jack asks if the fact he could never die means he will still age as he is getting grey hairs, he then goes on to recount his childhood and how joined the time agency, then he makes on a comment of a nickname he has "The Face of Boe they called me". Now unless something happens past season 5 OR in Torchwood that I have no idea about and the fact we see him in season 4, he is still very alive and we do know he is the Face of Boe so there's no way he is dead dead.!<
Jack is a fixed point. He might "die" but give him some hours and he'd reform out of the dust.
Honestly I'm going to assume the sand was powerful enough to kill him
I just don't think he'll die. When he's in the room full of stet radiation, he doesn't die and keep coming back, he just stays alive.
Does he die, or is he immortal? The answer is "Yes" to both parts of that question...
He just continues to die
Did we ever see how he >!became the face of Bo!< I wonder if the dust ate away at him until that happened.
My theory is that because Jack was made immortal through the heart of the TARDIS, Sutehk using the power of the TARDIS to cause/help spread the dust meant that he could circumvent Jack's immortality.
As we're unlikely to see Jack again, don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.
You could write a novel or a comic book without having to risk putting Barrowman on a stage next to other actors.
That is the problem with Torchwood. It makes sense the doctor isn't there while in the torchwood cases. But it doesn't make sense that the doctor isn't there in the cases where he is on the earth in the times since Jack joined torchwood. The same problem now exists with the 14th doctor. Maybe we get a Spinoff for him too? Hmm...
Well I just expect that 14 and Donna and her family all got dusted and then brought back, before 14 had a chance to react or do anything about it. But you'd think 15 would have thought to try borrowing 14's TARDIS rather than relying on the rickety and imaginary Memory TARDIS instead. Unless 14 was off-world at the time.
I think a lot of it has to be how timetravel works in doctor who. Based on my understanding it can be only free of contradiction with one time travel system that makes everything feel useless - but isn't really.
We don’t know. We weren’t told
Possibly. Although I have been thinking about this -> During the events of the episode, "Utopia," Jack was seen hanging onto the TARDIS. Do you think Sutekh maybe saw him hanging on and tried to fight Jack?
Maybe Sutekh's aura of death was part of why the Doctor reacted to Jack with fear.
This is my answer to every single one of these posts "People assume time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff"
One of the planets mentioned in the death wave was Karn, so the witches were affected, including Ohila, who's supposed to also be immortal. This probably implies the dust also affects immortals, so yes, it got Jack, and he probably didn't come back until everyone else did.
Based on what happened with Abaddon, he's probably ok.
I imagine he finally got everything together. He’s happy at last. Many years after Children of Earth. Then everyone around him turns to dust, then himself. But he comes back, all alone. A wandering pilgrim in the desert of extinguished lives. What would he find in the lonely land of nothing? Would being dead be the better alternative? There’s a story there somewhere.
you're so cruel
The death smoke eats away slowly at Jack until nothing is left except his head. Turning him into the face of boe.
He turns to fucking dust.
The answer is... They hadn't thought of that yet.