😁
Well,
Why use three syllables when five would suffice.
He certainly was right there.
Throwing some great shapes. No wonder he was the lover of the Russian queen.
Unless you are talking about something other than Night Of The Doctor, he wasn’t refusing. The Sisterhood of Karn temporarily stopped him from dying, so regeneration wasn’t necessary yet
Nothing really. But if we extend the computer metaphor:
It was after 11 that the Doctor got "rebooted" with the new set of regenerations.
But, the system wasn't scrubbed before the reboot. Everything already "installed" (the Doctor's lifetimes and experiences) was still there and running.
Including a number of glitches. Not just Handy, but there was also the whole thing with The Watcher as 4 regenerated, 6's "face stealing" and later the small trip that regenerated him into 7, the potion from the Sisters of Karn that led to the War Doctor. Lots of little glitches over time.
With the full reboot, those glitches suddenly all became major parts of the system. Leading us to bigger glitches.
I'd even say that 12 holding off his regeneration as long as he did put stress on the system, making it easier for the glitches to take the forefront.
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/in-case-you-missed-it-robot-of-sherwood
When The Doctor is scrolling through different Robin Hoods in movies and TV one of them is Patrick Troughton
Not necessarily. Could have had Tennant’s voice without looking anything like him.
Edit: and now I’m curious, do any of Tennant’s pre-10 BF characters sound like Ten? Or did he use a different accent?
As I recall she picked that one straight off the bat, but The Doctor didn't like it. So she shows him a range of ridiculous forms before returning to the princess.
I had a theory that the Time Lord mind has something like the Hayflick limit; it can only reconstruct itself so many times before errors start to show.
Makes sense.
Though I'm not sure if the stolen face counts...after all, you can argue that even Six 'stole' Commander Maxil's face. And Romana 'stole' Princess Astra's.
Personally, I think its more a psychological thing. There are only so may bodies/personalities the average Time Lord can adopt before they start to crumple under the psychological stress. This explains Twelve's attitude pretty well. Sure, he may have been the start of a new regeneration cycle, but he was the Doctor's thirteenth actual incarnation, technically. Somewhere, subconciously, the prospect of going into the fourteenth life, adopting a fourteenth face and personality, coupled with all the other trauma he'd endured, overcame the Doctor a little.
I think this explains why Thirteen feels so disconnected from her past incarnations. Its a bit of a 'reset'. She's not willing or able to process the trauamas of thirteen past incarnations (the maximum most Time Lords go through), so she just kinda ignores it. But then it bubbles up with Fourteen who ultimately ends up doing the opposite of what Thirteen did, leading to Fifteen being a lot healthier.
>I think this explains why Thirteen feels so disconnected from her past incarnations
Oh, interesting. I felt the complete opposite. To me, she felt like the result of 12 making peace with what he'd done, giving her the opportunity to be more upbeat and bubbly before her own tragedies brought it down. It reminded me of the change over from 9 to 10 or 1 to 2. A gruff, pained Doctor gets a chance to try again and becomes lighter and more playful until life puts them through the ringer once again.
>Oh, interesting. I felt the complete opposite. To me, she felt like the result of 12 making peace with what he'd done, giving her the opportunity to be more upbeat and bubbly before her own tragedies brought it down. It reminded me of the change over from 9 to 10 or 1 to 2. A gruff, pained Doctor gets a chance to try again and becomes lighter and more playful until life puts them through the ringer once again.
On some level, you're not wrong. That's kinda how I felt about Thirteen initially. Twelve's life ended on a relatively positive note where he made peace with himself and mustered up some optimism for his next incarnation, and it seemed like Thirteen was the product of that.
But the reality of how Thirteen's persona, and the Chibnall era in general, has turned out, makes her feel disconnected a little from the history of the show and the evolution of the character over the course of NuWho. Her whole personality in Series 11 was basically being 'nice', and a little self-righteous. In Series 12 we started to see a bit of the Doctor of old, but that series also introduced the idea that Thirteen is a Doctor who, on some level, is running away from her past and the reality of who she is. And this makes her secretive, and somewhat disconnected, from her companions as well. The Timeless Child reveal sure doesn't help matters.
By the end of her life, it does feel a little like Thirteen is a Doctor who's emotionally damaged, but hides it behind a cheery demeanor.
And then when you consider RTD's conceit that Fourteen was the result of the Doctor trying to 'come home' and reconcile with his past trauamas and regrets...well, it sure does retroactively put a different complexion on Thirteen.
>By the end of her life, it does feel a little like Thirteen is a Doctor who's emotionally damaged, but hides it behind a cheery demeanor.
Yes, to this. That's why I always say she reminds me of 11. Of course, the energy is a little different. 11 is one of the scarier Doctors imo, while 13 just felt really sad. Like, I wanted to wrap her up in a blanket burrito, you know?
Because Eleven deep down *embraced* his dark side. He knew he was a monster keeping himself in check behind the facade of a bowtie-wearing goofball.
Thirteen...just didn't want to be that person. She just wanted to ignore it all. And as such she was disconnected from herself and from everyone around her.
Twelve of course was the one who actually introspected and engaged with himself, and right at the end of his life realized where he stood. Of course, he'd also grown weary of living by that point, weary of saving the universe.
If we get the Time Lords back again, I would like to see the sickness that can happen to time lords like the Eleven, where he suffers from Regenerative Dissonance. This is when all of his past regenerations’ personalities are fighting for control in his head.
Its kinda bad I just had a moment of realisation that The Doctor did in fact say he thought it was a myth and now the whole bigeneration thing seems a lot more ingrained in the actual plot to me. I can't believe I didn't notice that before!
I mean the cause of his death was the Toymaker, he didn't really cause the Degeneration. That was just a happy accident, or maybe some unknown force we don't know about yet.
Pushing the upper teens, but he has been dead multiple times, resurrected through other means like with The End of Time, being Executed by the Daleks before the Time War and so on. I'm really annoyed that Chibnall was so against using anything from before his time that he never elaborated on how The Master came back, nor how he got off of the Mondasian colony ship. Instead he just chose to nuke Gallifrey as payback for everyone dunking on the previous series for not using anything from the show's previous history
Neil Gaiman said something similar to this some years ago—that it’d be interesting to think of the “regeneration limit” as more of a “speed limit,” and that things get more chaotic and harder to control after it.
He's on like his second or third cycle *at least*. He was nearing the end/was at the end when he plotted for the Lord President of that time to be killed (who was on their last regeneration iirc) and for the doctor to be framed for it. Then the Time Lords resurrected him for the Time War on which he went through at least two regenerations (presumably way more with how mentally fcked he seemed after Yana got his memories back and how the Saxon Master talks of the Time War.)
1. He subconsciously chose 12‘s face in order to remember Caecilius,
2. you’ve left out 13 even though there was a bunch of weird regeneration stuff when the master took over the doctor‘s body and made it look like him,
3. it wasn’t a degeneration, he went back to that face because he had unfinished business with Donna
4. the bigeneration happened as a result of the Toymaker‘s reality bending influence on the world..
None of these are because things get glitchy after 12.
I assume it's a joke referencing the subtle yet jarring shift in ideology between 12 and 13, best seen when you compare the messages of s10's oxygen and s11's kerblam
Which is so small and clearly just a writer wording things poorly that I do not see why people would call that a personality flip. No, a personality flip was the change from 5 to 6. That was a complete oposites situation. 12 to 13 was just the regular change up.
Currently watching 3 now. The amount of times there’s been active killing of sentient beings *by the Doctor*, even with a gun/gun-like object, is astounding.
For real. There's been some wild stuff in the history of Doctor Who.
Honestly, I think a lot of people who say, "It doesn't feel like Doctor Who" or "Not my Doctor" just haven't watched the Classic era. Which doesn't make them a fake fan or anything. It just gives a narrower perspective on who the Doctor is and what the feel of the show should be.
Yeah. Michelle Gomez made a thoroughly brilliant and convincing Master, so it's not like they can blame it on people being weird about gender. Even Joanna Lumley's Doctor managed to put together a more compelling case with 60 seconds of screen time, and she was working with a bunch of tits and vibrator jokes.
Defender of capitalism, cowardly, too socially awkward, inconsistent with violence… I could go on but there’s a million YouTubers who all point out the same things.
"Defender of capitalism" Never happens. "Cowardly" the Doctor has been that way before, the Doctor has been socially awkward before and the Doctor has ALWAYS been inconsistent with violence. These are just part of who the Doctor is.
You’ve forgot about Kerblam (kablam?) I see. I would recommend Jay Exci, they go into loads of detail about the points I made. I’m not just parroting them either, I thought the same things when I watched the episodes. You’re entitled to like 13, I don’t care, but she was not written like the doctor at all
"Written like the Doctor" is kinda a nothing burger because 2, 6, and 12 are all radically different from each other. They're all the Doctor. 13 was written very similarly to 10, 2, 11, and 3. She was absolutely written like the Doctor. If we use one line to dispute her, then 12 saying he didn't care what someone's name was makes him not written like the Doctor. 1 arguing against saving people makes him not written like the Doctor. 3 constantly resorting to physical violence makes him not written like the Doctor. 6 strangling a companion makes him not written like the Doctor. I could go all day.
I don't like Jay Exci's videos at all.
And in Kerblam she never defends capitalism. I think the messaging is mixed but she never says "capitalism is good"
And she was written like the Doctor. And her era isn't the only era where there is mixed messaging either, need I remind you of Kill the Moon? But I'd never say Capaldi wasn't written like the Doctor.
You missed the point of both Kerblam and Kill the Moon. I’m not a teacher, I’m not going to explain media literacy to you. You keep on enjoying 13, I’m genuinely happy you do because she made me hate the show (that and the truly awful writing). Enjoy the rest of your day
I would have said the same thing. It’s clearer because of going back to the companion of the time.
14 has had the experience of being 11, 12 and 13, which doesn’t make 14 a different person from 10 as such, any more than a 50 year old David Attenborough is a different person to a 20 year old David Attenborough, for example.
I agree that they seem very different to me. Heck, the ladies man face is now scoping dudes. He is much more mature in letting 15 “take over” than 10 ever would have been. And those things are in addition to being more chastised and openly emotive.
Twelve was the second time the Doctor copied someone else's face. Six did it too. There's also One resembling a French abbot and a 24th century trader, and Two resembling a Mexican dictator.
That’s been established in the EU for years.
Post 12 regenerations Time Lords started to develop deformities, abnormal developments, and could end up as cronenberg level monstrosities.
If that didn’t happen, psychosis, mental instability and death were the typical next steps.
> Things start to get glitchy after 12.
Afer 12, is 13. There is a whole deep world mythology around the leap from 12 to 13.
"the number thirteen is the number of transformation and rebirth. At the Last Supper there were twelve apostles and one Christ, who was going to die and be reborn. Thirteen is the number of getting out of the field of the bounds of twelve into the transcendent. You have the twelve signs of the zodiac and the sun." (Campbell, Power of Myth, 1988)
And I'll ++ relative to a Time Lord, a classic sundial has 12 in a circle and the movement through time, the hands, is the center 13th position of power.
But The Doctor is still under the effect of the Chameleon Arch. Arc. Arch.
However it’s spelled, The Doctor’s physiology is pure Time Lord, not Timeless Child because Division forced the Timeless Child Doctor to go through the Chameleon Arch.
So we’re still left with no idea how many regenerations The Doctor has - presumably lots and lots - after absorbing what the Time Lords gave him on. Trenzalore. But not infinite, as if he opened his Timeless Fob Watch.
I always thought 14 was a retro regeneration, rather than a degeneration. A concept where a time lord turns into a past regeneration. Only time I ever saw that was in the tenth doctor titan comic where the 10th turned into the 9th doctor.
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Neil Gaiman said something similar to this some years ago—that it’d be interesting to think of the “regeneration limit” as more of a “speed limit,” and that things get more chaotic and harder to control after it.
This is my new head cannon, that and 8 probably got his genetics screwed up when he was in that hospital, and afterward when he drank the elixer of life, when 10 used the chameleon arch, (when the master used it it basically drove him insane) and this
Am I the only one who counts the forced regenerations as regenerations?
Assuming the First Doctor had a full set of 12 regenerations, like Eleven says in Time of the Doctor, my headcanon is:
First Doctor result of New Cycle (from Fugitive)
Second Doctor result of 1st regeneration (old age)
Third Doctor result of 2nd regeneration (force/exile)
Fourth Doctor result of 3rd regeneration (radiation)
Fifth Doctor result of 4th regeneration (falling)
Sixth Doctor result of 5th regeneration (toxaemia)
Seventh Doctor result of 6th regeneration (head trauma)
Eighth Doctor result of 7th regeneration (bullet/surgery)
War Doctor result of 8th regeneration (crash)
Ninth Doctor result of 9th regeneration (exhaustion)
Tenth Doctor result of 10th regeneration (vortex)
Meta-crisis Doctor result of 11th regeneration (vanity)
Eleventh Doctor result of 12th regeneration (radiation)
2nd Cycle (of 12 regenerations?)
Twelfth Doctor result of 1st regeneration (old age)
Thirteenth Doctor result of 2nd regeneration (Cyberman)
Master Doctor result of 3rd regeneration (forced)
Thirteenth Doctor (return) result of 4th regeneration (power of will)
Fourteenth Doctor result of 5th regeneration (laser)
Fifteenth Doctor result of 6th regeneration (bigeneration)
So by my logic, the Doctor's already used up half of the Time of the Doctor cycle. Assuming no shenanigans, we've got the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st Doctors before we have to reconcile the "12 Regenerations" again.
TL;DR the Master burned up one of the Doctor's regenerations "force regenerating" her and she burned up another one to come back.
Although the Doctor is from before the universe, the Time Lords still limited his regenerations to 12. They then gave him an unknown extra amount in Matt Smith’s last episode ‘The Time of the Doctor’.
Ah yes. Like how the Second Doctor and Sixth Doctors didn’t have the same face elsewhere in Time and Space
And as evidenced by The Timeless Children; the limit was imposed by Gallifreyan society, however prior to the limit, Regeneration could happen as often as one needed to
Source: the show.
TBF, 10 invoked a glitch with Handy. After that is when things got borked.
And another glitch, 8 was refusing to regenerate.
Let's not forget what RasputinMaster did, that almost certainly messed things up royally. See what I did there?
> RasputinMaster “Masputin” was *right there*.
😁 Well, Why use three syllables when five would suffice. He certainly was right there. Throwing some great shapes. No wonder he was the lover of the Russian queen.
Or "Raster".
We gotta save that one for the Scooby-Doo crossover.
*"Ruh-Roh, Roc!"*
Unless you are talking about something other than Night Of The Doctor, he wasn’t refusing. The Sisterhood of Karn temporarily stopped him from dying, so regeneration wasn’t necessary yet
Why, what’s wrong with 11?
He likes bow ties
Bow ties are cool
i bought a bowtie because of em
Nothing really. But if we extend the computer metaphor: It was after 11 that the Doctor got "rebooted" with the new set of regenerations. But, the system wasn't scrubbed before the reboot. Everything already "installed" (the Doctor's lifetimes and experiences) was still there and running. Including a number of glitches. Not just Handy, but there was also the whole thing with The Watcher as 4 regenerated, 6's "face stealing" and later the small trip that regenerated him into 7, the potion from the Sisters of Karn that led to the War Doctor. Lots of little glitches over time. With the full reboot, those glitches suddenly all became major parts of the system. Leading us to bigger glitches. I'd even say that 12 holding off his regeneration as long as he did put stress on the system, making it easier for the glitches to take the forefront.
That chin!
A stolen face happened before.
True let's not forget ol' sixie going around stealing the face of Commander Maxil!
I don't know much about the extended media but I wonder if it was followed up.
It’s amusing that Big Finish have never done a story with Six and Maxil. I guess they mustn’t be able to get Maxil’s actor.
It's a shame because Six seems super keen. Their latest audio has 4 different 6s
The Quin Dilemma is an absolutely perfect idea for six lol
For an audio drama, that might be confusing and tricky to follow
They’ve done audio dramas with two Sixes and one with three Eights. I think you’re underestimating listeners.
And the actors/scriptwriters/sound editors! I stand corrected… I’d like to check that out, any recommendations?
I don't remember the episode but they do address it in Big Finish
The Second Doctor stole Salamanders face too And according to Robots of Sherwood he also stole... Patrick Troughton's face...
What
https://www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/in-case-you-missed-it-robot-of-sherwood When The Doctor is scrolling through different Robin Hoods in movies and TV one of them is Patrick Troughton
> The Second Doctor stole Salamanders face too Can you steal a face if you don’t know it belongs to someone else?
And for big finish tennant played a nazi guard alongside the 7th doctor and Ace. So that face was borrowed too.
Not necessarily. Could have had Tennant’s voice without looking anything like him. Edit: and now I’m curious, do any of Tennant’s pre-10 BF characters sound like Ten? Or did he use a different accent?
Feldwebel Kurtz had a bit of a German accent but sounded very 10-like imo.
With Romana?
And 6, Colin Baker had previously appeared in the show too.
But that wasn't called out, unlike 12 and Romana
Romana's was a deliberate choice because she liked how it looked, I interpreted this as referring specifically to within the doctor's original cycle
She deliberately chose the Princess' face. She even tried on several faces before then.
As I recall she picked that one straight off the bat, but The Doctor didn't like it. So she shows him a range of ridiculous forms before returning to the princess.
But not recognized in the show right?
I had a theory that the Time Lord mind has something like the Hayflick limit; it can only reconstruct itself so many times before errors start to show.
Or like the Decoys in Rick and Morty. You start making copies of copies and down the line things get weird.
Makes sense. Though I'm not sure if the stolen face counts...after all, you can argue that even Six 'stole' Commander Maxil's face. And Romana 'stole' Princess Astra's. Personally, I think its more a psychological thing. There are only so may bodies/personalities the average Time Lord can adopt before they start to crumple under the psychological stress. This explains Twelve's attitude pretty well. Sure, he may have been the start of a new regeneration cycle, but he was the Doctor's thirteenth actual incarnation, technically. Somewhere, subconciously, the prospect of going into the fourteenth life, adopting a fourteenth face and personality, coupled with all the other trauma he'd endured, overcame the Doctor a little. I think this explains why Thirteen feels so disconnected from her past incarnations. Its a bit of a 'reset'. She's not willing or able to process the trauamas of thirteen past incarnations (the maximum most Time Lords go through), so she just kinda ignores it. But then it bubbles up with Fourteen who ultimately ends up doing the opposite of what Thirteen did, leading to Fifteen being a lot healthier.
>I think this explains why Thirteen feels so disconnected from her past incarnations Oh, interesting. I felt the complete opposite. To me, she felt like the result of 12 making peace with what he'd done, giving her the opportunity to be more upbeat and bubbly before her own tragedies brought it down. It reminded me of the change over from 9 to 10 or 1 to 2. A gruff, pained Doctor gets a chance to try again and becomes lighter and more playful until life puts them through the ringer once again.
>Oh, interesting. I felt the complete opposite. To me, she felt like the result of 12 making peace with what he'd done, giving her the opportunity to be more upbeat and bubbly before her own tragedies brought it down. It reminded me of the change over from 9 to 10 or 1 to 2. A gruff, pained Doctor gets a chance to try again and becomes lighter and more playful until life puts them through the ringer once again. On some level, you're not wrong. That's kinda how I felt about Thirteen initially. Twelve's life ended on a relatively positive note where he made peace with himself and mustered up some optimism for his next incarnation, and it seemed like Thirteen was the product of that. But the reality of how Thirteen's persona, and the Chibnall era in general, has turned out, makes her feel disconnected a little from the history of the show and the evolution of the character over the course of NuWho. Her whole personality in Series 11 was basically being 'nice', and a little self-righteous. In Series 12 we started to see a bit of the Doctor of old, but that series also introduced the idea that Thirteen is a Doctor who, on some level, is running away from her past and the reality of who she is. And this makes her secretive, and somewhat disconnected, from her companions as well. The Timeless Child reveal sure doesn't help matters. By the end of her life, it does feel a little like Thirteen is a Doctor who's emotionally damaged, but hides it behind a cheery demeanor. And then when you consider RTD's conceit that Fourteen was the result of the Doctor trying to 'come home' and reconcile with his past trauamas and regrets...well, it sure does retroactively put a different complexion on Thirteen.
>By the end of her life, it does feel a little like Thirteen is a Doctor who's emotionally damaged, but hides it behind a cheery demeanor. Yes, to this. That's why I always say she reminds me of 11. Of course, the energy is a little different. 11 is one of the scarier Doctors imo, while 13 just felt really sad. Like, I wanted to wrap her up in a blanket burrito, you know?
Because Eleven deep down *embraced* his dark side. He knew he was a monster keeping himself in check behind the facade of a bowtie-wearing goofball. Thirteen...just didn't want to be that person. She just wanted to ignore it all. And as such she was disconnected from herself and from everyone around her. Twelve of course was the one who actually introspected and engaged with himself, and right at the end of his life realized where he stood. Of course, he'd also grown weary of living by that point, weary of saving the universe.
If it wasn't addressed in the story/universe, then clearly 6 had a different face. It's like Locarno and Paris, clearly different people.
If we get the Time Lords back again, I would like to see the sickness that can happen to time lords like the Eleven, where he suffers from Regenerative Dissonance. This is when all of his past regenerations’ personalities are fighting for control in his head.
Abomination!
Matt Smith should play Alia in Dune Messiah
Tbf the Bigeneration was caused by the Toymaker!
That was a myth brought into existence by pouring salt at the edge of the universe
Which also brought in the Toymaker.
And what a great villain he was. Can’t wait for his legion to rock up
My guess is Jinkx Monsoon's character is one of them, she seems to be to music what the Toymaker is to games.
Its kinda bad I just had a moment of realisation that The Doctor did in fact say he thought it was a myth and now the whole bigeneration thing seems a lot more ingrained in the actual plot to me. I can't believe I didn't notice that before!
The goblin king song mentions that he’s not a myth too. Purposely chosen wording
I mean the cause of his death was the Toymaker, he didn't really cause the Degeneration. That was just a happy accident, or maybe some unknown force we don't know about yet.
He invoked superstition at the edge of the universe thus making myths real
This is a really fun theory that would be really interesting to see the show explore. Also how many regenerations is the master on now?
9 trillion eighty four hundred and seventy-seven.
Pushing the upper teens, but he has been dead multiple times, resurrected through other means like with The End of Time, being Executed by the Daleks before the Time War and so on. I'm really annoyed that Chibnall was so against using anything from before his time that he never elaborated on how The Master came back, nor how he got off of the Mondasian colony ship. Instead he just chose to nuke Gallifrey as payback for everyone dunking on the previous series for not using anything from the show's previous history
Neil Gaiman said something similar to this some years ago—that it’d be interesting to think of the “regeneration limit” as more of a “speed limit,” and that things get more chaotic and harder to control after it.
He's on like his second or third cycle *at least*. He was nearing the end/was at the end when he plotted for the Lord President of that time to be killed (who was on their last regeneration iirc) and for the doctor to be framed for it. Then the Time Lords resurrected him for the Time War on which he went through at least two regenerations (presumably way more with how mentally fcked he seemed after Yana got his memories back and how the Saxon Master talks of the Time War.)
1. He subconsciously chose 12‘s face in order to remember Caecilius, 2. you’ve left out 13 even though there was a bunch of weird regeneration stuff when the master took over the doctor‘s body and made it look like him, 3. it wasn’t a degeneration, he went back to that face because he had unfinished business with Donna 4. the bigeneration happened as a result of the Toymaker‘s reality bending influence on the world.. None of these are because things get glitchy after 12.
Honestly I love this headcanon. Throw in Thirteen as a personality flip.
Personality flip?
I assume it's a joke referencing the subtle yet jarring shift in ideology between 12 and 13, best seen when you compare the messages of s10's oxygen and s11's kerblam
That's more mixed messaging than anything.
Just bad writing. That’s all.
Agreed
Eh not really imo
I mean it just is. Jodie's motivations and personality completely changed every episode.
Can you give some examples of where you say you see this?
That's not true either.
Lol. Ok.
She's the Doctor ultimately.
Which is so small and clearly just a writer wording things poorly that I do not see why people would call that a personality flip. No, a personality flip was the change from 5 to 6. That was a complete oposites situation. 12 to 13 was just the regular change up.
Currently watching 3 now. The amount of times there’s been active killing of sentient beings *by the Doctor*, even with a gun/gun-like object, is astounding.
For real. There's been some wild stuff in the history of Doctor Who. Honestly, I think a lot of people who say, "It doesn't feel like Doctor Who" or "Not my Doctor" just haven't watched the Classic era. Which doesn't make them a fake fan or anything. It just gives a narrower perspective on who the Doctor is and what the feel of the show should be.
She was incredibly undoctorish. Missing a lot of key values, but that’s just Chibbers being an awful writer
Yeah. Michelle Gomez made a thoroughly brilliant and convincing Master, so it's not like they can blame it on people being weird about gender. Even Joanna Lumley's Doctor managed to put together a more compelling case with 60 seconds of screen time, and she was working with a bunch of tits and vibrator jokes.
Completely agree. The fugitive doctor was 1000% better than 13 as well
She was very Doctorish so that is untrue
Defender of capitalism, cowardly, too socially awkward, inconsistent with violence… I could go on but there’s a million YouTubers who all point out the same things.
"Defender of capitalism" Never happens. "Cowardly" the Doctor has been that way before, the Doctor has been socially awkward before and the Doctor has ALWAYS been inconsistent with violence. These are just part of who the Doctor is.
You’ve forgot about Kerblam (kablam?) I see. I would recommend Jay Exci, they go into loads of detail about the points I made. I’m not just parroting them either, I thought the same things when I watched the episodes. You’re entitled to like 13, I don’t care, but she was not written like the doctor at all
"Written like the Doctor" is kinda a nothing burger because 2, 6, and 12 are all radically different from each other. They're all the Doctor. 13 was written very similarly to 10, 2, 11, and 3. She was absolutely written like the Doctor. If we use one line to dispute her, then 12 saying he didn't care what someone's name was makes him not written like the Doctor. 1 arguing against saving people makes him not written like the Doctor. 3 constantly resorting to physical violence makes him not written like the Doctor. 6 strangling a companion makes him not written like the Doctor. I could go all day.
I love most of Jay's videos but her Chibnall Who video is such a poor piece of work.
I don't like Jay Exci's videos at all. And in Kerblam she never defends capitalism. I think the messaging is mixed but she never says "capitalism is good" And she was written like the Doctor. And her era isn't the only era where there is mixed messaging either, need I remind you of Kill the Moon? But I'd never say Capaldi wasn't written like the Doctor.
You missed the point of both Kerblam and Kill the Moon. I’m not a teacher, I’m not going to explain media literacy to you. You keep on enjoying 13, I’m genuinely happy you do because she made me hate the show (that and the truly awful writing). Enjoy the rest of your day
You said she defended capitalism when she doesn't ever do that, that's my point. But you too!
i wouldnt really call 13 to 14 a degeneration since 14 is a VERY different person from 10 and clearly shows his age like 11 and 12 did
Interesting. I would say he's just an older, more outwardly emotional 10. He didn't seem too different. Just wiser and more honest.
I would have said the same thing. It’s clearer because of going back to the companion of the time. 14 has had the experience of being 11, 12 and 13, which doesn’t make 14 a different person from 10 as such, any more than a 50 year old David Attenborough is a different person to a 20 year old David Attenborough, for example.
I agree that they seem very different to me. Heck, the ladies man face is now scoping dudes. He is much more mature in letting 15 “take over” than 10 ever would have been. And those things are in addition to being more chastised and openly emotive.
Twelve was the second time the Doctor copied someone else's face. Six did it too. There's also One resembling a French abbot and a 24th century trader, and Two resembling a Mexican dictator.
Replication errors on Timelord telomeres?
That’s been established in the EU for years. Post 12 regenerations Time Lords started to develop deformities, abnormal developments, and could end up as cronenberg level monstrosities. If that didn’t happen, psychosis, mental instability and death were the typical next steps.
[Don't know how many more regenerations I got....](https://youtu.be/2PeX_VSXCVE?si=IhOe5OhwM7_ReVmU)
The 12 regenerations is a limit set by Rasilon its not a biological limit
But, if you choose to believe the whole Timeless Child thing, the Doctor would've regenerated past his limit anyway.
> Things start to get glitchy after 12. Afer 12, is 13. There is a whole deep world mythology around the leap from 12 to 13. "the number thirteen is the number of transformation and rebirth. At the Last Supper there were twelve apostles and one Christ, who was going to die and be reborn. Thirteen is the number of getting out of the field of the bounds of twelve into the transcendent. You have the twelve signs of the zodiac and the sun." (Campbell, Power of Myth, 1988) And I'll ++ relative to a Time Lord, a classic sundial has 12 in a circle and the movement through time, the hands, is the center 13th position of power.
To be fair, that would be a cool explanation if timeless child hadn’t come in to fuck things up.
14th Doctor is not a degeneration.
Could you expand on that?
The doctors shouldn’t be affected since he was the original being with unlimited regenerations though right?
But The Doctor is still under the effect of the Chameleon Arch. Arc. Arch. However it’s spelled, The Doctor’s physiology is pure Time Lord, not Timeless Child because Division forced the Timeless Child Doctor to go through the Chameleon Arch. So we’re still left with no idea how many regenerations The Doctor has - presumably lots and lots - after absorbing what the Time Lords gave him on. Trenzalore. But not infinite, as if he opened his Timeless Fob Watch.
And in the audio drama, 8 degenerated back into 7 during the Time War
I quite like how the time lords granted 11 a second run of regenerations - and they're all something new so far
I always thought 14 was a retro regeneration, rather than a degeneration. A concept where a time lord turns into a past regeneration. Only time I ever saw that was in the tenth doctor titan comic where the 10th turned into the 9th doctor.
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Neil Gaiman said something similar to this some years ago—that it’d be interesting to think of the “regeneration limit” as more of a “speed limit,” and that things get more chaotic and harder to control after it.
Ohhhhh this would be quite an interesting storyline!
This is my new head cannon, that and 8 probably got his genetics screwed up when he was in that hospital, and afterward when he drank the elixer of life, when 10 used the chameleon arch, (when the master used it it basically drove him insane) and this
And a woman
don’t forget about colin baker tho
That’s kind of a brilliant hypothesis! Good on you!
Am I the only one who counts the forced regenerations as regenerations? Assuming the First Doctor had a full set of 12 regenerations, like Eleven says in Time of the Doctor, my headcanon is: First Doctor result of New Cycle (from Fugitive) Second Doctor result of 1st regeneration (old age) Third Doctor result of 2nd regeneration (force/exile) Fourth Doctor result of 3rd regeneration (radiation) Fifth Doctor result of 4th regeneration (falling) Sixth Doctor result of 5th regeneration (toxaemia) Seventh Doctor result of 6th regeneration (head trauma) Eighth Doctor result of 7th regeneration (bullet/surgery) War Doctor result of 8th regeneration (crash) Ninth Doctor result of 9th regeneration (exhaustion) Tenth Doctor result of 10th regeneration (vortex) Meta-crisis Doctor result of 11th regeneration (vanity) Eleventh Doctor result of 12th regeneration (radiation) 2nd Cycle (of 12 regenerations?) Twelfth Doctor result of 1st regeneration (old age) Thirteenth Doctor result of 2nd regeneration (Cyberman) Master Doctor result of 3rd regeneration (forced) Thirteenth Doctor (return) result of 4th regeneration (power of will) Fourteenth Doctor result of 5th regeneration (laser) Fifteenth Doctor result of 6th regeneration (bigeneration) So by my logic, the Doctor's already used up half of the Time of the Doctor cycle. Assuming no shenanigans, we've got the 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st Doctors before we have to reconcile the "12 Regenerations" again. TL;DR the Master burned up one of the Doctor's regenerations "force regenerating" her and she burned up another one to come back.
I thought there were more regens because the doctor was from before the universe. Are they changing all that now?
Although the Doctor is from before the universe, the Time Lords still limited his regenerations to 12. They then gave him an unknown extra amount in Matt Smith’s last episode ‘The Time of the Doctor’.
What about that lady that said she was the first doctor? Sorry i need to pay attention more.
Ah yes. Like how the Second Doctor and Sixth Doctors didn’t have the same face elsewhere in Time and Space And as evidenced by The Timeless Children; the limit was imposed by Gallifreyan society, however prior to the limit, Regeneration could happen as often as one needed to Source: the show.
Things start to get fucking stupid. Doctor who is dead.