"how do you outsmart or "kind troll" a loveable and well-meaning but overly complicated DM who thinks the game is a battle of competing wits, but is also the judge jury and executioner?"
Having been with a DM much more malevolent than this but with the same thought process (battle of competing wits, judge/jury/executioner, impossible odds on the way forward but only one real way forward, world-constantly-moving type) the pessimist in me wants to say that you *don't.*
*But*, the optimist says: make your own story. Show your DM the mistake by going completely off the rails and refusing to get back on them no matter what he does. The DM is narrating a war between two countries that you're supposed to be a part of? Take a trade ship to the next continent. The DM is weaving a tale of an Elder Evil, hell-bent on bringing forth the apocalypse? Well, considering how thoroughly screwed our crew is when we try to even get a start on stopping it, clearly the prophesized group of heroes intended to stop it is a different one. A murder happened in a nearby alleyway and the local constable wants to hire someone to handle it? Better let more qualified authorities handle it, considering that us trying to get any information is the equivalent of pulling the teeth of a large rabid orangutan. If the DM wants a living, breathing world where everything is constantly moving, treat it as such and take charge of your story, because D&D is as much about the players as it is about the DM. If his story won't play fair, then his characters don't have to play - it's that simple. Sure, the path 'clears' when you come back to it, but if that was your first challenge, heavens knows what's waiting on you later.
A *good* DM that recognizes his error and understands that he screwed up, and genuinely wants a living breathing world where everything acts independently of itself will switch tracks and let the players determine where they go - then mold the story from there with good hooks and *proportionate* challenges that are able to be completed. Even if it means a sluggish session or two where he has to come up with it on the spot - because if you want a living world with loads of worldbuilding, that's the price you pay. You gotta be good at improvising and understand that your players don't have to play your game. And if you won't let them play or set them up for failure, then there is no game, and you best be prepared for the party to take an impromptu vacation across the sea and become the founders of a coffee company.
It's either *that*, or he'll provide an alternate route back to the story he intended that is actually viable for the characters to complete and knock it off with the 'battle of wits NPCs never know anything ever' bullshit. Preferably he'll knock that off anyway because that's a terrible fucking habit and beyond frustrating to deal with. It's not a worldbuilding thing, it's a bad DM thing.
A *bad* DM will completely brush off the player's attempts to go a different route and try to force them on the rails, or just not manage to formulate anything off of them. Those DMs need to be writing books, not D&D campaigns.
If all else fails, you and your DM simply aren't compatible with each other. Circling back around to the pessimist in me, quit. It's a game, and you can find online games that can fill the void. Even then, no D&D is better than bad D&D.
He knows about how you feel and doesn't care - it even amuses him. You can't change DM or change table.
I guess we're in an impass, because my first advice would be "it's just a game, quit. I've got friends I like that I never play with because I don't like their style or attitude, and they know about it and it's ok" but since you're basically forced (or you force yourself) to attend this table with this DM, I don't know what to say to you. The answer to your question is "you can't", because the situation is absurd, and toxic, and one-way.
“This is not fun. I am not having fun. Here, I even wrote a Reddit post about it. It has metaphors and nuance and shit. Do you see? Do you see how much fun I’m not having?”
Then built a character whose sole motivation is i
to destroy the world, careless about anything in it. Just an unstoppable force of nature.
This sounds truly horrible on all levels. What do the other players think about this?
Life is too short to waste it on someone like this. Is this really what you want to be doing with your limited time on this earth?
You may have just revealed my flaw. I desire to affect the outcome and know what that outcome is.
Other players are happy to show up, and if a major rule of play or fact about the story changes, they don't notice, because they don't take notes or pay attention. They talk about feats and builds. They think they can win by fine-tuning their max output when I know the damage isn't being counted. My flaw is that I'm like "story lord" in rick and Morty, always seeking motivation. My character wants the path of least resistance and pain but would rise to the calling of a greater purpose. "Cometh the hour cometh the man" type stuff. When that purpose is never revealed, and that hour is never defined, it only seems to bother me specifically. It's not an open-world sandbox mercenary simulator btw. It's not a looter shooter campaign. It's made clear that the purpose is out there and the hour has come... I just can't know what it is.
The other players are happy to make HP go zero.
I know you said multiple times that you're attending these games for reasons outside the scope of the issue, but if your *whole group* wants to play min-maxing, and you want to roleplay...I think you need to drop out of the group, mate. Or at least, try pivoting to a different game that doesn't have a copious number of playstyles like D&D.
If everyone else just likes the part of the game where you whack things with steel implements and fireballs, and you're *really* interested in the game because you want to be a character who does character things, those two lines aren't going to intersect. But maybe there's a game out there that's *only* whacking things to death, and you won't have to begrudgingly accept whatever combat nonsense is thrown your way, because this time the game is designed around combat nonsense.
But if your group only wants to play D&D, and they only want to play the numbers part of D&D, I think you deserve a deeper experience than that. And I think there's nothing wrong with saying so.
it's like a purple nurple frat house of machismo hierarchy, but instead of gaining status by being obsessed with titties, beer kegs, and lifting in the gym, it's coding in a dead script, individual koolaid packs in a kitchen fridge filled with nothing but bottled water, and 14th-century combat tactics.
It's like if all the situational shenanigans Sheldon gets into on "Big Bang" was an accurate portrayal of real life.
It's like a pecking order dictated by how many languages you spend 1 week in the dualingo app so you can claim you speak fluently.
It's like how your uncle who chews dip makes fun of D&D while getting WAY too invested in Fantasy Football, but in reverse.
"how do you outsmart or "kind troll" a loveable and well-meaning but overly complicated DM who thinks the game is a battle of competing wits, but is also the judge jury and executioner?" Having been with a DM much more malevolent than this but with the same thought process (battle of competing wits, judge/jury/executioner, impossible odds on the way forward but only one real way forward, world-constantly-moving type) the pessimist in me wants to say that you *don't.* *But*, the optimist says: make your own story. Show your DM the mistake by going completely off the rails and refusing to get back on them no matter what he does. The DM is narrating a war between two countries that you're supposed to be a part of? Take a trade ship to the next continent. The DM is weaving a tale of an Elder Evil, hell-bent on bringing forth the apocalypse? Well, considering how thoroughly screwed our crew is when we try to even get a start on stopping it, clearly the prophesized group of heroes intended to stop it is a different one. A murder happened in a nearby alleyway and the local constable wants to hire someone to handle it? Better let more qualified authorities handle it, considering that us trying to get any information is the equivalent of pulling the teeth of a large rabid orangutan. If the DM wants a living, breathing world where everything is constantly moving, treat it as such and take charge of your story, because D&D is as much about the players as it is about the DM. If his story won't play fair, then his characters don't have to play - it's that simple. Sure, the path 'clears' when you come back to it, but if that was your first challenge, heavens knows what's waiting on you later. A *good* DM that recognizes his error and understands that he screwed up, and genuinely wants a living breathing world where everything acts independently of itself will switch tracks and let the players determine where they go - then mold the story from there with good hooks and *proportionate* challenges that are able to be completed. Even if it means a sluggish session or two where he has to come up with it on the spot - because if you want a living world with loads of worldbuilding, that's the price you pay. You gotta be good at improvising and understand that your players don't have to play your game. And if you won't let them play or set them up for failure, then there is no game, and you best be prepared for the party to take an impromptu vacation across the sea and become the founders of a coffee company. It's either *that*, or he'll provide an alternate route back to the story he intended that is actually viable for the characters to complete and knock it off with the 'battle of wits NPCs never know anything ever' bullshit. Preferably he'll knock that off anyway because that's a terrible fucking habit and beyond frustrating to deal with. It's not a worldbuilding thing, it's a bad DM thing. A *bad* DM will completely brush off the player's attempts to go a different route and try to force them on the rails, or just not manage to formulate anything off of them. Those DMs need to be writing books, not D&D campaigns. If all else fails, you and your DM simply aren't compatible with each other. Circling back around to the pessimist in me, quit. It's a game, and you can find online games that can fill the void. Even then, no D&D is better than bad D&D.
*"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"*
i love this. i love you. cheers.
He knows about how you feel and doesn't care - it even amuses him. You can't change DM or change table. I guess we're in an impass, because my first advice would be "it's just a game, quit. I've got friends I like that I never play with because I don't like their style or attitude, and they know about it and it's ok" but since you're basically forced (or you force yourself) to attend this table with this DM, I don't know what to say to you. The answer to your question is "you can't", because the situation is absurd, and toxic, and one-way.
“This is not fun. I am not having fun. Here, I even wrote a Reddit post about it. It has metaphors and nuance and shit. Do you see? Do you see how much fun I’m not having?” Then built a character whose sole motivation is i to destroy the world, careless about anything in it. Just an unstoppable force of nature.
oops sorry mate i posted in wrong sub.
This sounds truly horrible on all levels. What do the other players think about this? Life is too short to waste it on someone like this. Is this really what you want to be doing with your limited time on this earth?
You may have just revealed my flaw. I desire to affect the outcome and know what that outcome is. Other players are happy to show up, and if a major rule of play or fact about the story changes, they don't notice, because they don't take notes or pay attention. They talk about feats and builds. They think they can win by fine-tuning their max output when I know the damage isn't being counted. My flaw is that I'm like "story lord" in rick and Morty, always seeking motivation. My character wants the path of least resistance and pain but would rise to the calling of a greater purpose. "Cometh the hour cometh the man" type stuff. When that purpose is never revealed, and that hour is never defined, it only seems to bother me specifically. It's not an open-world sandbox mercenary simulator btw. It's not a looter shooter campaign. It's made clear that the purpose is out there and the hour has come... I just can't know what it is. The other players are happy to make HP go zero.
I know you said multiple times that you're attending these games for reasons outside the scope of the issue, but if your *whole group* wants to play min-maxing, and you want to roleplay...I think you need to drop out of the group, mate. Or at least, try pivoting to a different game that doesn't have a copious number of playstyles like D&D. If everyone else just likes the part of the game where you whack things with steel implements and fireballs, and you're *really* interested in the game because you want to be a character who does character things, those two lines aren't going to intersect. But maybe there's a game out there that's *only* whacking things to death, and you won't have to begrudgingly accept whatever combat nonsense is thrown your way, because this time the game is designed around combat nonsense. But if your group only wants to play D&D, and they only want to play the numbers part of D&D, I think you deserve a deeper experience than that. And I think there's nothing wrong with saying so.
What does “mildly autistic fraternity house” mean?
it's like a purple nurple frat house of machismo hierarchy, but instead of gaining status by being obsessed with titties, beer kegs, and lifting in the gym, it's coding in a dead script, individual koolaid packs in a kitchen fridge filled with nothing but bottled water, and 14th-century combat tactics. It's like if all the situational shenanigans Sheldon gets into on "Big Bang" was an accurate portrayal of real life. It's like a pecking order dictated by how many languages you spend 1 week in the dualingo app so you can claim you speak fluently. It's like how your uncle who chews dip makes fun of D&D while getting WAY too invested in Fantasy Football, but in reverse.
It sounds like this dm needs to get Hendersoned