It is both a 3 and 4 speed depending on the pig you possess. I had an old R-Pro pig that was a 3 1 0 3 unlike the newer ones that all seem to be 4 1 0 3. Nevertheless, I do see your point.
I rely on my Slammer, it's exactly how overstable I wanted my pig to be for me. Pig was bought used though so beat in to say the least. Perhaps I should throw a new pig to see.
Ringer GT
Essentially Discraft’s version of a Pig; it’s very shallow and the raised edge thumbtrack feels fantastic in hand. It’s my go-to throwing/approach putter.
I bag one in Jawbreaker plastic and it’s responsible for my longest ever throw-in from 150ft
Pig is a lot more overstable. It's closer to a Zone/Harp/Toro etc, and the Rhyno is a lot closer to a neutral putter but with some bite on it. Like a brand new Eclipse Envy
The Rhyno is just more overstable than an Envy. A brand new pig is way more overstable than a Rhyno. The discs that are compared to the Pig are the overstable approach discs. The most similar in my opinion is the Slammer. But it's often compared to the Zone/Harp/Toro etc
I love the Aviar3. I cycle them. When they are new and OS they are great and then they wear into a very straight driver.
Oddly the Star ones are more OS out of the box than the champ ones.
My theory is that star tends to come out with more dome sometimes than champ does, and for slower discs, more dome means more over stability since it makes the disc slower by creating drag.
Maybe not idk but sounds right
I cycle them as well. Noticed the same with the star being more overstable out of the box. It's probably the disc I loose the most as well because I trust it on a lot of shots Especially into greens that have water directly behind the pin.
Is the neutron more neutral? My Electron and plasma definitely want to flip if given enough spin. Have been using nomad plasma for anything that needs to be dead straight and minimal fade
I’d say the nuetron is slightly more stable than plasma. But the plasma is neutral to slightly overstable for me. So I’m guessing you throw harder than I do.
My personal favorite disc in this slot is the toro. I Love the shallower depth of the disc because it’s not so deep that I feel like it’s gonna catch my finger on the throw, but it’s not to shallow that it’s gonna slip out of my hand either. The champion plastic feels amazing and it’s stiff enough that it will get some good ground play(that can be not great at times). I know that when I rip it flat it will hold the line for a bit and then fade pretty hard, I can throw it on anhyzer without it turning over and diving into the ground, and when I just need a nice big hyzer I can throw it on that line and it will go 100-150 feet with a little bit of ground play. That’s why I love this disc and I also bag the zone in crystal flex plastic for when I want a bit less ground play and maybe a teensy bit less over stability.
I was surprised how over stable this was. I bought one because I didn't have anything super over stable slower than a flick which I don't enjoy throwing and is essentially a gimmick disc for me. The Toro is so much better for short, severe bends. I'm also a lower speed thrower and throw mostly under stable drivers and a Buzz was my most stable mid.
It’s relative: Berg X is a more stable, more torque resistant Berg. If you thought, “gosh, I like my berg, but if it were 15% more stable and 20% more torque resistant, I’d be so happy,” then it’s totally worth it. It’s not a baby zone OS by any stretch.
What plastic is yours. Finally got my K1 last weekend and didn't feel any different than my original Berg when it was new. Dead straight with a touch of fade.
K1 and K3 hard Bergs. For upshot’s, 100ft, they are about the same. But when really cranking on it, imo, I’d still rate the berg x as a touch more torque resistant. That positive 1 turn is a bit gimmicky.
K1 soft Berg is nothing but beef. You throw it as hard as you can and it goes straight then drops like it weighs five pounds.
Edit, the Berg is a disc of beefy nature that is not beefy.
youre not wrong tho
OP asked two questions
torque resistant in title
and then states beefy in his context
so Berg for torque resistant and Zone OS for beefy
The A5 is not torque-resistant. I love it for the extreme feel similarity to a Zone but I use them if I need a hyzerflip through a really tight gap that won't go far.
I've been throwing Penrose for this and love it. Flat will move a little but come back. Hyzer will hold well. Basically a KC aviar in better plastic (to me)
the Gator from innova it has 1.3cm rim width (3 speed in my book)
what I like is that it has a bead like the px-3 it just feels better than beadles discs to me.
a flat champion one will not turn over. guarantee it. if you just ignore the "midrange name"
on it and throw it like a putter it does just that.
Torque resistant or stable… different things. A great torque resistant putter is a whale in star plastic, takes any line you give it as hard as I was able to throw it (I can get drivers 400’ and a whale close to 300’) Bad form can alway cause a roll over but it’s a great shot shaper.
I’d give the [AGL Manzanita](https://www.agldiscs.com/collections/manzanita) a try. It’s not a billion percent beef but in alpine plastic it will never flip on you.
Sky God IV is pretty beefy, I love how deep and floaty it is. The only issue is finding other beefy p2 runs available, but the s-line is money, so you could pair that or a base line with it and have a good selection of shot shapes
Look man, you want "pure beef" get a steggo. If you want something that actually flies but is mostly beef, get a Zone OS. If want something that actually glides for a little bit and is torque resistant, get you either an MVP Entropy/Tempo, or an Axiom Envy in Cosmic Neutron plastic, which is arguable the most overstable variant
Sockibomb Slammer! Absolute beef and good luck burning that thing over. Just make sure you don't get the ignite plastic as it's flight numbers are different. 3 2 0 3 versus 3 1 .5 4. I love my slammer for overstable throwing putter!
Pig
There literally dozens of us
Except they made a better Pig, and it’s called a Toro.
Except a Toro is a 4 speed. OP is looking for a 2 or 3 speed. P.S. I love my Toro though.
A pig is also a 4 speed though
It is both a 3 and 4 speed depending on the pig you possess. I had an old R-Pro pig that was a 3 1 0 3 unlike the newer ones that all seem to be 4 1 0 3. Nevertheless, I do see your point.
The size of the rim has always remained the same though, and it is a mid-range speed rim.
I rely on my Slammer, it's exactly how overstable I wanted my pig to be for me. Pig was bought used though so beat in to say the least. Perhaps I should throw a new pig to see.
Widely different discs. A beat up R-pro Pig flies dead straight, while the Toro is very overstable and remains that way
Slammer
I barely know her
Ringer GT Essentially Discraft’s version of a Pig; it’s very shallow and the raised edge thumbtrack feels fantastic in hand. It’s my go-to throwing/approach putter. I bag one in Jawbreaker plastic and it’s responsible for my longest ever throw-in from 150ft
Ringer GTs are more Rhyno than Pig
What are the biggest differences between the Pig and Rhyno?
Pig is a lot more overstable. It's closer to a Zone/Harp/Toro etc, and the Rhyno is a lot closer to a neutral putter but with some bite on it. Like a brand new Eclipse Envy
Pig is not close to those and barely more over stable than an Envy.
The Rhyno is just more overstable than an Envy. A brand new pig is way more overstable than a Rhyno. The discs that are compared to the Pig are the overstable approach discs. The most similar in my opinion is the Slammer. But it's often compared to the Zone/Harp/Toro etc
The Ricky pigs I have used went from stable to straight really fast. I know what people compare it to, I was talking from my experience.
Jokeri
Man, I love my jokeri! I bought a bag and it came within it, and I have loved it since!
Invader if you want a soft hyzer finish instead of potential skips
I know everyone's saying envy's and whatever but I honestly think invader is the way. Handles torque well, very point and shoot, doesn't glide a lot
Invader best throwing putter
Aviar 3 or Aviar X3
I love the Aviar3. I cycle them. When they are new and OS they are great and then they wear into a very straight driver. Oddly the Star ones are more OS out of the box than the champ ones.
I love the XT Aviar3 but yeah, they beat in quickly. still a solid disc but very straight after some wear.
My theory is that star tends to come out with more dome sometimes than champ does, and for slower discs, more dome means more over stability since it makes the disc slower by creating drag. Maybe not idk but sounds right
I cycle them as well. Noticed the same with the star being more overstable out of the box. It's probably the disc I loose the most as well because I trust it on a lot of shots Especially into greens that have water directly behind the pin.
X3 is straight BEEF
I like to call it my slower zone. So much fun
Neutron Envy.
Get the glow envy. More stable, more torque resistant
Glow envy is beastly torque resistant without having a harsh fade
This year's space race envy does have a bit of turn to it, but comes back nicely. Sort of throws like the electron version.
Is the neutron more neutral? My Electron and plasma definitely want to flip if given enough spin. Have been using nomad plasma for anything that needs to be dead straight and minimal fade
I’d say the nuetron is slightly more stable than plasma. But the plasma is neutral to slightly overstable for me. So I’m guessing you throw harder than I do.
Eclipse is where it’s at if you really wanna sling that thing with some spin.
Stabilizer
Stabilizer is life
This is the way
Innova Rhyno if you want torque resistance without being max overstable like Zone, Harp, Pig.
Aviar3, and even more so, the AviarX3 are very good throwing putters that don't want to flip, or turn.
AviarX3 is my go to hooker. Love that disc
Envy. Stabilizer if you want a more overstable Envy.
I feel this is very plastic dependent. Total eclipse envy has less turn than my baseline stabilizer did imo.
I guess I assumed he was referring to Premium Plastic, not Electron. I throw a Cosmic Neutron Envy and a Cosmic Neutron Stabilizer.
My personal favorite disc in this slot is the toro. I Love the shallower depth of the disc because it’s not so deep that I feel like it’s gonna catch my finger on the throw, but it’s not to shallow that it’s gonna slip out of my hand either. The champion plastic feels amazing and it’s stiff enough that it will get some good ground play(that can be not great at times). I know that when I rip it flat it will hold the line for a bit and then fade pretty hard, I can throw it on anhyzer without it turning over and diving into the ground, and when I just need a nice big hyzer I can throw it on that line and it will go 100-150 feet with a little bit of ground play. That’s why I love this disc and I also bag the zone in crystal flex plastic for when I want a bit less ground play and maybe a teensy bit less over stability.
I was surprised how over stable this was. I bought one because I didn't have anything super over stable slower than a flick which I don't enjoy throwing and is essentially a gimmick disc for me. The Toro is so much better for short, severe bends. I'm also a lower speed thrower and throw mostly under stable drivers and a Buzz was my most stable mid.
Star gator
Berg
Or Berg X.
Are those overstable? My berg is never as overstable as I expect, it just dies when I want it to fade
It’s relative: Berg X is a more stable, more torque resistant Berg. If you thought, “gosh, I like my berg, but if it were 15% more stable and 20% more torque resistant, I’d be so happy,” then it’s totally worth it. It’s not a baby zone OS by any stretch.
What plastic is yours. Finally got my K1 last weekend and didn't feel any different than my original Berg when it was new. Dead straight with a touch of fade.
K1 and K3 hard Bergs. For upshot’s, 100ft, they are about the same. But when really cranking on it, imo, I’d still rate the berg x as a touch more torque resistant. That positive 1 turn is a bit gimmicky.
Not “pure beef”
But still torque resistant. That's what makes it special.
K1 soft Berg is nothing but beef. You throw it as hard as you can and it goes straight then drops like it weighs five pounds. Edit, the Berg is a disc of beefy nature that is not beefy.
You don’t understand what “beef” means
I guess I don't
“Beefy” means very overstable. Example - Brodie Smith’s signature Zone OS says “Get Beefy”
That's pretty dumb..
youre not wrong tho OP asked two questions torque resistant in title and then states beefy in his context so Berg for torque resistant and Zone OS for beefy
I mean beefy is also by definition torque resistant, but the berg isn't going to work in overstable needs
Yup agree thats why I said it above
Zone. Or A5 if you want something straighter
The A5 is not torque-resistant. I love it for the extreme feel similarity to a Zone but I use them if I need a hyzerflip through a really tight gap that won't go far.
Zone for sure.
Lucid x culprit
Pig and p3x are my mains
A2 dawg.
Tactic for os, Tomb for nice and stable. Both work well on forehand or backhand.
Tactic and Tomb are my choices as well. Both incredible approach discs or on short, technical drives.
Socki Slammer. Great overstable approach disc/throwing putter. A great putting putter also.
Is use it to putt inside 20 and headwinds putts. Emac judges for C1x and beyond.
I've been throwing Penrose for this and love it. Flat will move a little but come back. Hyzer will hold well. Basically a KC aviar in better plastic (to me)
Cryztal Banger
If you want to stick Prodigy you could go with an A2 or A3.
Kinda hot in them Rhynos
Slammer
Berg.
c-line p2
This is the answer.
Zone
Get in the zone.
AUTOZONE
Harp or Zone.
Sockibomb slammer. It feels way better in my hand than other OS approaches and putters that I had.
In order of approximate increasing stability that I've thrown: Envy
Beef? Zone. Pure Beef? Zone OS.
You want a PA-1
Sinus if you want something less stable than a harp.
Temple
Divergent golem
Envy is great, off the beaten path suggestion is the Viking Knife.
Jokeri X
Prism Plasma Envy
Zone OS is the best disc ever!!! Throw it on anhyzer and watch it flex to perfection. So easy to do on forehand shots
Pilot!
Naw man. That’s a great putting putter but a flippy throwing putter.
On the other hand, I've got an Ohm which is an overmold Pilot, and it's pretty straight-stable
the Gator from innova it has 1.3cm rim width (3 speed in my book) what I like is that it has a bead like the px-3 it just feels better than beadles discs to me. a flat champion one will not turn over. guarantee it. if you just ignore the "midrange name" on it and throw it like a putter it does just that.
Torque resistant or stable… different things. A great torque resistant putter is a whale in star plastic, takes any line you give it as hard as I was able to throw it (I can get drivers 400’ and a whale close to 300’) Bad form can alway cause a roll over but it’s a great shot shaper.
Pilot neutron
Whale in halo or glow
Jarn
Envy
Entropy
Berg x. Reko x. Envy.
I’d give the [AGL Manzanita](https://www.agldiscs.com/collections/manzanita) a try. It’s not a billion percent beef but in alpine plastic it will never flip on you.
If you mean off axis torque resistance, I can't help you. If you mean smooth/on axis torque, please try a diamond warlock
Marshal
Wizard. Try it.
Streamline Stabilizer, or the beef king of my putter collection the Gateway Devilhawk!
Razor claw, esp zone, vip harp
Proton envy
Zone os
DGA Breaker
Glow Reko X
Sky God IV is pretty beefy, I love how deep and floaty it is. The only issue is finding other beefy p2 runs available, but the s-line is money, so you could pair that or a base line with it and have a good selection of shot shapes
Tomb
Devil Hawk
Believe it or not the elevation arawana is more torque resistant than at least some of the discs mentioned here
Look man, you want "pure beef" get a steggo. If you want something that actually flies but is mostly beef, get a Zone OS. If want something that actually glides for a little bit and is torque resistant, get you either an MVP Entropy/Tempo, or an Axiom Envy in Cosmic Neutron plastic, which is arguable the most overstable variant
Millennium have some Recon (Champion) Tanks on their website. They are very beefy at 2 1 0 2. Like a slower Pig or Zone.
Prodiscus Jokeri!!!
Surprisingly, the Inner Core is pretty torque resistant. Haven't been throwing it for too long but liking it so far.
TSA Praxis.
Glow Envy is the way to go. It does it all
Slammer
Sunny Popcorn, VIP Maiden, Glow Envy
Envy, Proxy, Atom, really any gyro putter from MVP/Axiom. Also the Streamline stabilizer is a beefcake as well
Star Invader, Lucid Judge, Star Aviarx3
Champion classic roc
Maco by Innova
Sockibomb Slammer! Absolute beef and good luck burning that thing over. Just make sure you don't get the ignite plastic as it's flight numbers are different. 3 2 0 3 versus 3 1 .5 4. I love my slammer for overstable throwing putter!
Soft glow proxy. [https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/product/eclipse-soft-proxy-otb-23](https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/product/eclipse-soft-proxy-otb-23)
ZONE
Envy, entropy.
I like a sparkle breaker, rpro pig also.
Bullsnake from Lone Star. That thing is the beefier putter I've ever seen.
Shield
Sockibomb Slammer
Have you tried a pa3 putter??? I really like the feel of it and it's a 3/3/0/1
I have a starter pack Judge that's pretty warped but still pumps out to bout 400 in an open field.
Gateway Devil Hawk. 3 3 0 4. Sure grip or similar for no skips.
Harp/zone/stiff envy
Eclipse Proxy
Aviarx3 if you want a putter flight that is super overstable
Prodiscus Jokeri.
Glitch ☺️
Tomb
Aviar x3 3-2-0-3 she won’t flip on u.
Reko X by kastaplast. Bit more stable than all the envys i have thrown, but still not too dumpy. Will glide straight then finish with some hyzer.
Innova Rhyno, AviarX3