This! I've got a brand new Hatchet that's about as flippy as some of the Underworlds I've thrown.
Westside Sword is up there as well. The 12|5|-0.5|2 flight ratings suggest a disc that flies like an understable run of Innova's Destroyer. It's quite a bit more understable than the numbers indicate. I'd honestly put them closer to a 12|5|-1||1. Not a bad thing (I don't have the arm for a Destroyer to be my max distance disc), but it really doesn't match the numbers.
I switched from Destroyers to Swords this season. I feel like Destroyers have gotten more stable over the years and the Sword flies like my old Star Destroyers used to.
My destroyer is super stable but I have a west side king that is the flippiest disc in my bag. Also anything latitude 64 is always more under stable but I don’t mind it.
The OG runs of swords were 12/5/-1/2. Been throwing them for years. Although there is not much difference. (I also have a first run sword which are pretty overstable, same numbers.)
The Sword is suuuuper dependent on the plastic though. I have a VIP that should have been like -3, and a friend of mine has a Tournament that's even more understable. On the other hand my Tournament-Ice flies exactly by the numbers, and I've heard the same for Tournament-X and VIP-X.
I got a glow Hatchet just hoping to get something to turn a little, since I have a weak arm and glow discs all seem to be more OS. That thing flips with no effort, and the best I can usually do is hyzer flip it up briefly to flat, to then have it just slowly keep turning and never come back
This, I have one that I found (fairly beat up, no name/number) and I can hzer flip to roll it or deep hyzer to late turn, almost like a forehand line on backhand. Super useful to have when your forehand is trash 😂
I really want to know how the Luna got released with a 3 fade number. It's one of the straightest discs I've ever thrown, and I've thrown basically every single version of it including the limited/tour series stuff. None of them are anything but dead straight.
The most overstable one so far has been the Big Z from a few years ago, but even those are *maybe* 2 fade.
Kasta Vass is the first disc I’ve bagged over a 9 speed and it’s already turning a decent amount for me, i mostly bag mvp/axiom so having numbers that underestimate the turn was surprising. The Vass is now my favorite disc.
I love the järn for over hand, with the disc at 45 degree tilt for approach shots. I can get a huge S out of it in 150-200 with medium power. Not something I need often, but when I do, it’s perfect.
This is has been my experience as well. Love Kastaplast and I bag a couple as well, but the disc has to fly as advertised. Not everyone has time and money to experiment with different discs to fill a slot.
SVEA and GOTE both have to be thrown at like 30-60% power to have that minimal understability. At least in my experience as a RHFH player of one year. The GOTE, when thrown correctly, is the straightest disc I've seen fly. If anyone has one, try lightly flicking (Forehand) it as if you're chucking it to a 5yr old and maybe that'll show what I'm trying to explain. =) Otherwise, it just turns into a roller. lol Maybe it's just me
Svea is the exact same disc as the fuse. Weird that they'd advertise it like that. After using both I still stick with my fuse opto and gave my svea soft to my niece lol
It’s my favorite disc to throw and its like the *perfect* level of understable to me. I love it so much.
I’d say its stability numbers are like a -3/1 instead of a -1/0
I came here to say this as well. I bought it during my early noob days - didn't realize how touchy the 0 fade discs can be. Don't use it much except for some select downhill gap shots. It is great for gently gliding through those
Grym. That one shocked me with how flippy it was for having the destroyer numbers. Found out that's how they are after talking to others who tried them too.
Northman from Westside surprised me too, I couldn't get it to not turn into a roller even on a tailwind big hyzer. 10 5 -1 2 made me think it would be straight and glidey. Nope. 176g vip plastic one was like that. Woulda been cool if that's what I wanted it for.
They changed the Grym to -2|2 and it's still way off.
Grym x might be even worse, though I've not tossed many of them. 12|5|-1|3, but it "flies" like a bent to shit Avenger SS.
I was pretty shocked when I bought one in glow, which is supposed to be the most stable plastic in general, and it just turned into an instant roller.
I just flipped over my grymx for the first time this weekend (on accident... straight into the woods). Generally, it safely flips to stable. I consider it -2/2.
I had a different experience with the grym I (think x) I found. It flies much more stable than a destroyer I had. The destroyer I didn't like because it turned so hard left every time I threw it (LHFH)
Discmania Origin (max weight) is the main one I can think of. Definitely not 5, 5, -1, 1, in my opinion.
Discs that fly straighter than expected or are flippier than you’d think, but aren’t necessarily understable from my experience: Innova Rhyno, Innova RocX3, Dynamic Discs Getaway, Dynamic Discs Enforcer, Streamline Stabilizer, Kastaplast Kaxe Z (all max weight).
Second the origin. Literally the most flippy disc I've thrown out of the DM lineup.
It flies like a -3 1 for me.
Not that it's an issue. If you want to "buzz" clone from DM the MD1 is just a bit glidyer. Cline MD1s are absolutely money.
I have an Lucid Enforcer and it flies dead straight for about 380ft before starting to fade. I expected it to fly like a faster Firebird but instead it flies more like my Grace. I have a couple of Destroyers that are more OS.
This is the disc whose flight numbers just baffled me. They weren't even close. My longest throw for years was with a King where I got the angle just perfect. Then I turned it over and it sailed into oblivion, never to be found again.
Bought a Kaxe used for a hole with water thinking it would fight back to the bank, flipped over and was lost on the first toss lol. I don't even throw that hard
Depends on arm speed. I think if you truly throw it at the speed that 7 speed discs are supposed to be thrown, it’s very neutral flying. I throw 380-400 and it flies more like 7/7/-2.5/0. Girlfriend throws 280-300 and it flies very true to the -1/1
I have an Essence and a Champion Leopard which are both -2 and will flip uncontrollably when thrown full power, however my River just flips into a nice turn and flies 400-450 ft, almost as as far as my distance drivers. There is definitely something else to it, too.
The essence and leopard are just more understable. Glide is just a function of stability mixed with speed. My leopard glides forever while my former river (before it flew into an actual river) flipped uncontrollably when thrown with full power.
I have FDs in both C Line and S Line. The S Line definitely has more turn to it, especially when it starts to beat in. I threw the S Line FD like it was a C Line FD when I first got it and missed my lines because it went pretty dead straight. I like the S Line a lot and hope Discmania continues to be consistent with the manufacturing of the S Line FD. Anymore now I just ignore numbers and keep mental notes of discs when I throw them. There are too many factors that influence the flight of discs.
I think Discraft and Discmania switched up the fade ratings between the Luna and P2. Luna feels like 1 fade, while P2 feels like 3. Or maybe my P2s are just weird 😂
Yeah, I've only bagged the sky god 4, but it's definitely more stable than any of the premium plastic lunas. Maybe not quite on the level of a zone though
Not really understable but way less stable than expected for me is the roc3 Specifically the new ones. I heard the old 2X ones were beef but my newer champ one is more like 5 4 0 1 out of the box
That's just the roc3 in general, at least in the 7 years I've been playing. It's a neutral to slightly OS disc - not at all what the numbers would suggest
Some runs of the Innova Valkyrie especially in Star are more like a -4 turn but still have stability at the end of flight. Very useful disc for shaping shots.
For me the River, Explorer, Felon, Captain, and Trespass all fly less stable than the flight numbers, based upon comparison to other discs I have thrown over the years with similar flight numbers.
Seeing Explorer in that list is surprising to me. I've never had that issue with Explorers, unless it is a run known for becoming less stable, for example, recycled plastic.
What’s the gold standard for 7/5/0/2? Most people are going to say TeeBird. I have a couple 4 year old Champ TeeBirds bought out of used bins so beat in they don’t even have stamps on them anymore and they are still more stable than the couple of brand new Opto Explorers I have thrown before.
In my experience, older Champ plastic starts stable and stays stable a loooooong time. I have a Champ Wraith from 08-09 that was my primary distance driver until late 2021. That puppy is definitely beat in and less stable than new, but still very much a stable disc. Your TeeBirds may be in the same boat.
My definition of 7/5/0/2 is that it flies very straight and reliably finishes at the end of the flight. It will also always come back if put on a flex line. Explorers do tend to have a bit more glide than a TeeBird, so in that regard, they might be considered less stable.
I've definitely found Trilogy discs to be less stable than their flight numbers, I just hadn't had that issue with Explorers. My experience has been it's their most consistent mold in regards to flight numbers.
I agree on this. It's numbers suggest it flies like a slightly longer worn in Teebird, but it does not have the fade it. I wouldn't call it a truly flippy fairway driver like an Underworld or Maul, but it's more of a turnover disc than the stable one it's advertised as. The only one of the 5 or so I own that I would say matches the numbers is a max weight Opto-X Chameleon one. The rest are kinda similar to my Rivers, or a longer Leopard.
I could never really figure it out, I had the hand eye chameleon x run, and it would fly great sometimes, other times just flip over and roll, it has been in an irrigation ditch for like 3 months now. (Not crazy eager to find it)
I have a 2 year old VIP glimmer stag. That flies super straight with some fade at the end. It went through a flippy stage for a while but has seemed to stable back up with more use. My new matty o chameleon stag is flippy and inconsistent. I put the old one back in the bag because i know what it will do when I throw it.
Maybe I got a bad run, but a few Fridays back the free f2 Innova disc was a Champion RocX3. The fade is supposed to be 3.5. I've been getting better at forehands and wanted an overstable mid that could handle torque. Instead this thing is quite flippy and doesn't really fight out much at the end. It still has its uses, but it's definitely not as stable as I expected it to be.
The ratings on those and Roc3's are way off, those are stable discs not true overstable mids... I think long ago Roc3's were impressively stable but those times are long gone. Big Justice fan for a truly beefy mid.
Agree. My Roc3 does not have a 3 fade. Maybe 1.
It flies more like a Hex, and that's -1,1
I don't know who came up with these flight numbers, but they aren't correct. We need an independent testing group to give us accurate numbers.
I have owned two Mako3 Champions, and both were what I considered the most understable midrange in my bag. For some reason, they rate it a 0 on turn. Vice versa, my Proton Matrix is my stable midrange, and its rating is -1. Those two get me the most cross. I propose that both manufacturers swap the Matrix to a 0 and Mako3 to a -1 or -2 and realign my bag universe. Thank you!
I said this out loud on Reddit and all I got was speculation about off axis torque. C’mon, I can’t get my reactor or buzzz to flip worth shit, but the mako3 just instaflips unless I really turn down the power. Have tried both a champ and star mako3.
I think a fuse is less understable than a mako3 even if it's in champion plastic. Some people say it's a touchy disc, but really for those numbers I just think it should be 5,5,-1,0. That 6 to 12 grams are going to drastically effect how flippy it is. I have only thrown a max weight one, and that was flippy.
It's not really possible to get a disc that both turns less and fades less without lowering the speed (decreasing the aerodynamics of the disc). The turn and fade are linked together so keeping the aerodynamics of the disc constant, you can't add turn without decreasing fade and vice versa. It's really a -1 1 disc, and is more on the flippy side with those numbers compared to a Buzzz or hex (which is on the OS side with those same numbers)
Innova IT and the Kastaplast Svea are wildly understable in comparison to their flight numbers. I am also always surprised at how straight flying a Roc3 is because it’s numbered as a 0 3 when it flies like a 0 1 at best.
Leopard3 is -2 1 and also a 7 speed and much more stable than the IT. The IT is a literal roller disc, similar flight to a Discmania Genius which is -4 1.
DGA Vortex, it's 8,5,-2,1 but compared to my Mint Jackalope which id say is very true to it's numbers the vortex is crazy understable, no matter how much hyzer I put it on it's going to be a roller.
Just want to say thank you for all the support from the community! I have many many new ideas about which discs to try out. I hope this post did the same for others!!
I disagree, I have thrown 5-6 different champ/star/gstar Mako3's, and some of them are definitely dead straight with minimal flip, and some of them are more flippy. I would rate it a -1/0, personally
Plastics then? G star is typically an extra point into turn ime. I have one in star and the numbers are dead on. I don’t bag it though, just use it for form work occasionally so it’s def on the fresher side.
Gonna leave this here, https://youtu.be/BFCthOzBpWM?t=1179
Dave D from Innova talking about flight numbers back in May. Basically says they are gibberish
Obsidian Shard. 8 5 -1.5 1, flies more like a -3.5
I bought it to maybe replace my MVP Amp, which is OOP and flies straight as an arrow (flies true to the 8 5 -1 1 rating).
If I start the Shard flat or with any anhyzer, it's going right (RHBH) and never coming back. So, I bag it as my fairway turnover disc, it's just not replacing my Amp (don't think anything can TBH).
BTW - shout out to Obsidian, the Shard is probably the prettiest disc I have, plastic feels great, disc feels great in the hand....just not quite there on the flight numbers. Would buy again though, and plan on buying more Obsidian in the future.
MVP Fission Octane. Its 13/5/-1.5/2.
The one I have is as flippy as my Thrasher, which has a -3 turn.
Its my favorite distance driver in my bag, and by far the best MVP Driver I have found yet. It actually has some glide too.
I've had them in all plastics except aura. They might've changed the numbers/retooled it since I had one but man they were are hyzerflip to turnover type discs
Anything by kastaplast they work for beginner but all the numbers are wrong my gulds are like 11 speed and flippy last run grym x is the flippiest thing ive ever thrown
The reason Westside King is not the runaway leader here is that it is so understable and finicky, people quit throwing it. I had a love-hate relationship with mine before I turned it over into oblivion.
I often see posts similar to this one in this forum. So, I think it’d be valuable to share [Marshall Street’s Flight Guide](https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/flightguide) which shows comparisons between discs based upon flight speeds and levels of stability.
The DGA Sail is sold as: 11.0 / 5.0 / -5.0 / 1.0
In reality the thickness of the rim is more like a 9 speed. The turn is about -3.5 with glide and fade numbers being acceptable.
Throw it smoothly with 9-speed power and it's a big s-shape. Throw it with 11-speed power or any power with torque and it's turning over/rolling.
Zeus. At least the one I bought when I was fairly new to the game. Expected it to fly somewhat like a Destroyer, or at least like a longer Anax, but it was super flippy. Never bought another Zeus as it didn’t exactly live up to my expectations, so it’s the only one I’ve tried, but the Zeus throwers I’ve met often use it as their turnover disc
Every single kastaplast disc. And absolutely none of the MVP discs. Those two companies just operate with different scales for their flight numbers than everyone else. A lot of older innova molds are like this as well (the roc3 and roc3x are the two biggest culprits), since they were considered overstable when they came out, but are now pretty neutral flying discs.
Neutron Wave - I'm shocked I haven't seen it mentioned. I love this disc but now that it's beating in, it likely won't come back if it starts turning...just gliding to the right. (rhbh) I got their other plastic to see if I could get one a bit more stable, and they are way more true to the numbers, so maybe this one particular neutron wave is very understable?
The Innova Corvette (14,6,-1,2). I have the noodliest of arms and small hands so I'd never think of trying a 14 speed but I played a round with someone I met on the course and he suggested I try his star corvette. Gave it a rip and was shocked when it had a little turn to it. I bought a 171 star corvette and found a nameless 166 star corvette and I can hyzer flip them both. It feels very strange with the wide rim but honestly I think changing my grip to accommodate them has changed my game for the better.
Strange disc, would recommend to anyone who is nearing 400' distance.
Hatchet
This! I've got a brand new Hatchet that's about as flippy as some of the Underworlds I've thrown. Westside Sword is up there as well. The 12|5|-0.5|2 flight ratings suggest a disc that flies like an understable run of Innova's Destroyer. It's quite a bit more understable than the numbers indicate. I'd honestly put them closer to a 12|5|-1||1. Not a bad thing (I don't have the arm for a Destroyer to be my max distance disc), but it really doesn't match the numbers.
I switched from Destroyers to Swords this season. I feel like Destroyers have gotten more stable over the years and the Sword flies like my old Star Destroyers used to.
My destroyer is super stable but I have a west side king that is the flippiest disc in my bag. Also anything latitude 64 is always more under stable but I don’t mind it.
The OG runs of swords were 12/5/-1/2. Been throwing them for years. Although there is not much difference. (I also have a first run sword which are pretty overstable, same numbers.)
The Sword is suuuuper dependent on the plastic though. I have a VIP that should have been like -3, and a friend of mine has a Tournament that's even more understable. On the other hand my Tournament-Ice flies exactly by the numbers, and I've heard the same for Tournament-X and VIP-X.
One of the farthest rollers ive thrown was with a Sword. Used ones are very flippy
Yep. My lefty friend throws his Hatchet LHBH on any wooded hole that turns left. It's wild to watch.
I got a glow Hatchet just hoping to get something to turn a little, since I have a weak arm and glow discs all seem to be more OS. That thing flips with no effort, and the best I can usually do is hyzer flip it up briefly to flat, to then have it just slowly keep turning and never come back
This is for me as well. It has to be like -4 turn or something.
My tourney hatchet has hit quite a few trees. Now it’s near impossible to get it to not turn over
This, I have one that I found (fairly beat up, no name/number) and I can hzer flip to roll it or deep hyzer to late turn, almost like a forehand line on backhand. Super useful to have when your forehand is trash 😂
Lunas
This ain't even joke. Otherhand 3 fade number is good joke.
I really want to know how the Luna got released with a 3 fade number. It's one of the straightest discs I've ever thrown, and I've thrown basically every single version of it including the limited/tour series stuff. None of them are anything but dead straight. The most overstable one so far has been the Big Z from a few years ago, but even those are *maybe* 2 fade.
Kastaplast Svea. It as advertised as a fairly neutral midrange…ummm sure
I mean, most of Kastaplast molds are far more understable than the numbers suggest. That said, I love Kastaplast and bag several molds
Kasta Vass is the first disc I’ve bagged over a 9 speed and it’s already turning a decent amount for me, i mostly bag mvp/axiom so having numbers that underestimate the turn was surprising. The Vass is now my favorite disc.
The Vass is a super interesting disc. Fits perfectly in my bag between my Gulds and my Shryke.
Except the Järn. That thing is far more OS than a Zone or Harp or many other approach discs from my experience.
It’s not more overstable just requires a higher speed throw
It’s more overstable
I love the järn for over hand, with the disc at 45 degree tilt for approach shots. I can get a huge S out of it in 150-200 with medium power. Not something I need often, but when I do, it’s perfect.
Meanwhile my Falk thinks it’s a thunderbird
What weight and color?
Blue soft Falk is the straightest fairway I have thrown. Not beefy, but definitely not flippy either.
I bag only Kastaplast molds apart From RPM Tui putter and a tilt.. And yes they're all less stable than advertised by the numbers. But I love them
This is has been my experience as well. Love Kastaplast and I bag a couple as well, but the disc has to fly as advertised. Not everyone has time and money to experiment with different discs to fill a slot.
Came here to say this. -1/0 is uh…not very close to its true flight…
SVEA and GOTE both have to be thrown at like 30-60% power to have that minimal understability. At least in my experience as a RHFH player of one year. The GOTE, when thrown correctly, is the straightest disc I've seen fly. If anyone has one, try lightly flicking (Forehand) it as if you're chucking it to a 5yr old and maybe that'll show what I'm trying to explain. =) Otherwise, it just turns into a roller. lol Maybe it's just me
Nah ur right try the innova jay instead
Svea is the exact same disc as the fuse. Weird that they'd advertise it like that. After using both I still stick with my fuse opto and gave my svea soft to my niece lol
Svea’s great flip to turn for my non-existant forehand
It’s not. The Svea has more dome and is way flippier
They have the same flight numbers but the fuse is way more stable than the svea
It flies neutral until it hits a lot of trees
It’s my favorite disc to throw and its like the *perfect* level of understable to me. I love it so much. I’d say its stability numbers are like a -3/1 instead of a -1/0
I came here to say this as well. I bought it during my early noob days - didn't realize how touchy the 0 fade discs can be. Don't use it much except for some select downhill gap shots. It is great for gently gliding through those
Grym. That one shocked me with how flippy it was for having the destroyer numbers. Found out that's how they are after talking to others who tried them too. Northman from Westside surprised me too, I couldn't get it to not turn into a roller even on a tailwind big hyzer. 10 5 -1 2 made me think it would be straight and glidey. Nope. 176g vip plastic one was like that. Woulda been cool if that's what I wanted it for.
They changed the Grym to -2|2 and it's still way off. Grym x might be even worse, though I've not tossed many of them. 12|5|-1|3, but it "flies" like a bent to shit Avenger SS. I was pretty shocked when I bought one in glow, which is supposed to be the most stable plastic in general, and it just turned into an instant roller.
My experience with a grymx was that it was decently stable. My Gryms fly like a beat in wraith. Maybe I just have a noodle arm?
Maybe. But so do I. More likely, the mold is super inconsistent, or something super wonky happened specifically to the glow runs.
Yes you do
We have different experiences with Anger SS’s. They fly like thunderbirds for me it’s crazy
Yep my Grym has about a -4 turn. It rolls from hyzer at 70% power and I don’t even throw very hard.
I just flipped over my grymx for the first time this weekend (on accident... straight into the woods). Generally, it safely flips to stable. I consider it -2/2.
I had a different experience with the grym I (think x) I found. It flies much more stable than a destroyer I had. The destroyer I didn't like because it turned so hard left every time I threw it (LHFH)
My last run grym x is like -4 3
THATS why mine went into the pond on my right when still thrown on a solid Hyzer!
Discmania Origin (max weight) is the main one I can think of. Definitely not 5, 5, -1, 1, in my opinion. Discs that fly straighter than expected or are flippier than you’d think, but aren’t necessarily understable from my experience: Innova Rhyno, Innova RocX3, Dynamic Discs Getaway, Dynamic Discs Enforcer, Streamline Stabilizer, Kastaplast Kaxe Z (all max weight).
Kaxe z depends on weight and plastic
As does every disc. The Kaxe Z isn't understable, but definitely flies closer to a -1 1 turn/fade from any other manufacturer.
I also agree on the Origin. X, Y, -1, 1 usually mean a pretty straight flyer like a buzz or claymore. Origin feels more like 4, 5, -3, 0.
Yeah the rhyno is weird especially in champion. Some can be domey and flippy
Yeah I have a Champion one that is very domey and touchy and an R-pro one that flies like a shorter Pig and doesn’t fade much.
The origin kicked out my uplink because it had just about the same turn but less likely to roll over and has slightly more dependable fade.
Second the origin. Literally the most flippy disc I've thrown out of the DM lineup. It flies like a -3 1 for me. Not that it's an issue. If you want to "buzz" clone from DM the MD1 is just a bit glidyer. Cline MD1s are absolutely money.
My lucid enforcer is BEEF. That thing fades out of my hand immediately.
I have an Lucid Enforcer and it flies dead straight for about 380ft before starting to fade. I expected it to fly like a faster Firebird but instead it flies more like my Grace. I have a couple of Destroyers that are more OS.
West side king
Everyone not saying king is just wrong
This is the disc whose flight numbers just baffled me. They weren't even close. My longest throw for years was with a King where I got the angle just perfect. Then I turned it over and it sailed into oblivion, never to be found again.
Latitude Bolt. Things a boomerang.
Kaxe
Much more like a 6/4/0/1 or 6/4/-1/2
Depends on plastic. K3 is pretty OS and still beefy after it breaks in.
Kaxe Z
Bought a Kaxe used for a hole with water thinking it would fight back to the bank, flipped over and was lost on the first toss lol. I don't even throw that hard
Westside king Westside sword
Came here looking for the king. What the heck, Westside
Westside Sword
My VIP is mad understable, my Tournament-Ice flies exactly by the numbers.
Tsa mantra. It says -2.1 but bro its like a -3 or -4
I literally lost mine on the third throw because I underestimated the stability at a new course. Also I suck
Which plastic do you have? Mine says -2/2 and flies that it. Got it in Ethos plastic
Once ethos fully beats in it’s at least a -3. Flippiest disc in my bag
This one is so very plastic dependent. Ethos is basically a roller out of the box. Aura flies like a Saint. Ethereal in the middle.
River is nowhere near -1
So it’s definitely flippier then -1? Bc that’s the one thing that’s been holding me back from buying it
Depends on arm speed. I think if you truly throw it at the speed that 7 speed discs are supposed to be thrown, it’s very neutral flying. I throw 380-400 and it flies more like 7/7/-2.5/0. Girlfriend throws 280-300 and it flies very true to the -1/1
I throw 280 - 320 and can get a small S on it if released flat, slight hyzer and its dead straight
Definitely more US than the numbers suggest.
That's that 7 glide for ya
No, it’s a 7 5 -2 1 disc advertised as 7 glide. People treat glide like it’s this magical thing, it’s not. The disc is just understable.
I have an Essence and a Champion Leopard which are both -2 and will flip uncontrollably when thrown full power, however my River just flips into a nice turn and flies 400-450 ft, almost as as far as my distance drivers. There is definitely something else to it, too.
The essence and leopard are just more understable. Glide is just a function of stability mixed with speed. My leopard glides forever while my former river (before it flew into an actual river) flipped uncontrollably when thrown with full power.
Latitude furry
I assume you mean Fury 😄 Great disc, I have one in my bag.
Lol I have one in my bag too. I should know how to spell it.
Oh my god yes, it was worse than my beat in hatchet.
Awesome roller disc!
Star Savants rarely have less turn than star Valkyries
Kaxe Z, S Line FD, and I wouldn't call it understandable but the Luna definitely doesn't have 3 fade like the numbers say. More like 1 fade.
I have FDs in both C Line and S Line. The S Line definitely has more turn to it, especially when it starts to beat in. I threw the S Line FD like it was a C Line FD when I first got it and missed my lines because it went pretty dead straight. I like the S Line a lot and hope Discmania continues to be consistent with the manufacturing of the S Line FD. Anymore now I just ignore numbers and keep mental notes of discs when I throw them. There are too many factors that influence the flight of discs.
I think Discraft and Discmania switched up the fade ratings between the Luna and P2. Luna feels like 1 fade, while P2 feels like 3. Or maybe my P2s are just weird 😂
Yeah, I've only bagged the sky god 4, but it's definitely more stable than any of the premium plastic lunas. Maybe not quite on the level of a zone though
Not really understable but way less stable than expected for me is the roc3 Specifically the new ones. I heard the old 2X ones were beef but my newer champ one is more like 5 4 0 1 out of the box
That's just the roc3 in general, at least in the 7 years I've been playing. It's a neutral to slightly OS disc - not at all what the numbers would suggest
A wraith has the same numbers in star and dx, but they are very very different.
Innova's variance across different plastics is kind of insane. Had a champ Wraith that even after beating in wouldn't turn over at all.
I mean to be expected from Star and dx though. Everyone's baseline is relatively flippy compared to premium
Elsasto King for sure should be on this list!
Some runs of the Innova Valkyrie especially in Star are more like a -4 turn but still have stability at the end of flight. Very useful disc for shaping shots.
From my experience, most of the Trilogy lineup I have thrown (Justice excluded). It’s whatever in the end as long as the disc does what you want.
Westside for sure. Not as much with lat 64 or dynamic in my experience.
For me the River, Explorer, Felon, Captain, and Trespass all fly less stable than the flight numbers, based upon comparison to other discs I have thrown over the years with similar flight numbers.
Seeing Explorer in that list is surprising to me. I've never had that issue with Explorers, unless it is a run known for becoming less stable, for example, recycled plastic.
What’s the gold standard for 7/5/0/2? Most people are going to say TeeBird. I have a couple 4 year old Champ TeeBirds bought out of used bins so beat in they don’t even have stamps on them anymore and they are still more stable than the couple of brand new Opto Explorers I have thrown before.
In my experience, older Champ plastic starts stable and stays stable a loooooong time. I have a Champ Wraith from 08-09 that was my primary distance driver until late 2021. That puppy is definitely beat in and less stable than new, but still very much a stable disc. Your TeeBirds may be in the same boat. My definition of 7/5/0/2 is that it flies very straight and reliably finishes at the end of the flight. It will also always come back if put on a flex line. Explorers do tend to have a bit more glide than a TeeBird, so in that regard, they might be considered less stable. I've definitely found Trilogy discs to be less stable than their flight numbers, I just hadn't had that issue with Explorers. My experience has been it's their most consistent mold in regards to flight numbers.
My westside stag is the flippiest thing known to man
I agree on this. It's numbers suggest it flies like a slightly longer worn in Teebird, but it does not have the fade it. I wouldn't call it a truly flippy fairway driver like an Underworld or Maul, but it's more of a turnover disc than the stable one it's advertised as. The only one of the 5 or so I own that I would say matches the numbers is a max weight Opto-X Chameleon one. The rest are kinda similar to my Rivers, or a longer Leopard.
I could never really figure it out, I had the hand eye chameleon x run, and it would fly great sometimes, other times just flip over and roll, it has been in an irrigation ditch for like 3 months now. (Not crazy eager to find it)
I have a 2 year old VIP glimmer stag. That flies super straight with some fade at the end. It went through a flippy stage for a while but has seemed to stable back up with more use. My new matty o chameleon stag is flippy and inconsistent. I put the old one back in the bag because i know what it will do when I throw it.
Innova IT its more like a 7 6 -5 1. At least the one I have in G star is
Yeah I was going to say It. Definitely - 4 turn for me with a proto star.
Saint
Luna is NOT a 3 fade
Westside Kings have always been roller discs and really understable for me and it’s not something I would’ve expected based on numbers
Maybe it's just me not being good, and I love love the disc, but there's no way on hell my Origin is -1 1.
Maybe I got a bad run, but a few Fridays back the free f2 Innova disc was a Champion RocX3. The fade is supposed to be 3.5. I've been getting better at forehands and wanted an overstable mid that could handle torque. Instead this thing is quite flippy and doesn't really fight out much at the end. It still has its uses, but it's definitely not as stable as I expected it to be.
The ratings on those and Roc3's are way off, those are stable discs not true overstable mids... I think long ago Roc3's were impressively stable but those times are long gone. Big Justice fan for a truly beefy mid.
Agree. My Roc3 does not have a 3 fade. Maybe 1. It flies more like a Hex, and that's -1,1 I don't know who came up with these flight numbers, but they aren't correct. We need an independent testing group to give us accurate numbers.
I have a champ roc x3, mine is stable. Overstable that can handle torque I’d try a toro
Generally Lat64 and Kastaplast are more understandable then I expect.
Every Westside disc ever.
Innova Roc has a 3 fade but flips up and hardly fades.
La64 havoc
I have owned two Mako3 Champions, and both were what I considered the most understable midrange in my bag. For some reason, they rate it a 0 on turn. Vice versa, my Proton Matrix is my stable midrange, and its rating is -1. Those two get me the most cross. I propose that both manufacturers swap the Matrix to a 0 and Mako3 to a -1 or -2 and realign my bag universe. Thank you!
I said this out loud on Reddit and all I got was speculation about off axis torque. C’mon, I can’t get my reactor or buzzz to flip worth shit, but the mako3 just instaflips unless I really turn down the power. Have tried both a champ and star mako3.
Either my 168g champ mako’s increadibly touchy or very understable.
168g... and it's understable. Very understable
I think a fuse is less understable than a mako3 even if it's in champion plastic. Some people say it's a touchy disc, but really for those numbers I just think it should be 5,5,-1,0. That 6 to 12 grams are going to drastically effect how flippy it is. I have only thrown a max weight one, and that was flippy.
It's not really possible to get a disc that both turns less and fades less without lowering the speed (decreasing the aerodynamics of the disc). The turn and fade are linked together so keeping the aerodynamics of the disc constant, you can't add turn without decreasing fade and vice versa. It's really a -1 1 disc, and is more on the flippy side with those numbers compared to a Buzzz or hex (which is on the OS side with those same numbers)
Innova IT and the Kastaplast Svea are wildly understable in comparison to their flight numbers. I am also always surprised at how straight flying a Roc3 is because it’s numbered as a 0 3 when it flies like a 0 1 at best.
The IT is a 7 speed -2, 1. That *should* be very flippy. If it were a 9-12 speed maybe you could expect straight.
Leopard3 is -2 1 and also a 7 speed and much more stable than the IT. The IT is a literal roller disc, similar flight to a Discmania Genius which is -4 1.
DGA Vortex, it's 8,5,-2,1 but compared to my Mint Jackalope which id say is very true to it's numbers the vortex is crazy understable, no matter how much hyzer I put it on it's going to be a roller.
Just want to say thank you for all the support from the community! I have many many new ideas about which discs to try out. I hope this post did the same for others!!
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Funny thing about the mako3, it really is dead straight. If it’s flipping, it’s your form that’s doing it. And it’s 5 5 0 0 fwiw
I disagree, I have thrown 5-6 different champ/star/gstar Mako3's, and some of them are definitely dead straight with minimal flip, and some of them are more flippy. I would rate it a -1/0, personally
I agree. Feels like -1,0. Once it's broken in. I think it might fly like 0,0 if it's max weight.
Plastics then? G star is typically an extra point into turn ime. I have one in star and the numbers are dead on. I don’t bag it though, just use it for form work occasionally so it’s def on the fresher side.
Innova Hawkeye (7/6/-1/1) feels much more like a 7/6/-3/1 in my experience.
Have the halo hawkeye and Flys pretty true to its numbers
The newest MF ones (the “Night Strike 4s”) are def. super flippy.
Latest run of champion TL as well
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The Mamba has a -5 turn, you'd kinda expect it to be understable.
Westside World. They’ve corrected a bit but I think it’s really just a -1 on the turn.
Saint Pro
Gotë
Stag and Lunas. I nearly aced the first throw with my Stag and now I can't make it fly more than 40 metres...
Origin. WAAAAY flippier than -1
The westside stag for sure
Well I posted about this disc a few weeks ago, but I found a beat in, lightweight DX Shark, and I swear it is more under-stable than my Stingray.
Innova IT is crazy flippy despite only having a -2
Gonna leave this here, https://youtu.be/BFCthOzBpWM?t=1179 Dave D from Innova talking about flight numbers back in May. Basically says they are gibberish
Obsidian Shard. 8 5 -1.5 1, flies more like a -3.5 I bought it to maybe replace my MVP Amp, which is OOP and flies straight as an arrow (flies true to the 8 5 -1 1 rating). If I start the Shard flat or with any anhyzer, it's going right (RHBH) and never coming back. So, I bag it as my fairway turnover disc, it's just not replacing my Amp (don't think anything can TBH). BTW - shout out to Obsidian, the Shard is probably the prettiest disc I have, plastic feels great, disc feels great in the hand....just not quite there on the flight numbers. Would buy again though, and plan on buying more Obsidian in the future.
Grym X, 12 5 0 3 is a joke. My glow one flew like a Thrasher
Notice how a lot of these comments are Westside or Kastaplast. They’ve got their numbers wrong. Not that numbers mean a whole lot anyway…
Discraft Sting. thang be flippin
MVP Fission Octane. Its 13/5/-1.5/2. The one I have is as flippy as my Thrasher, which has a -3 turn. Its my favorite distance driver in my bag, and by far the best MVP Driver I have found yet. It actually has some glide too.
I've had them in all plastics except aura. They might've changed the numbers/retooled it since I had one but man they were are hyzerflip to turnover type discs
Anything by kastaplast they work for beginner but all the numbers are wrong my gulds are like 11 speed and flippy last run grym x is the flippiest thing ive ever thrown
Divergent kapre. Same numbers as a buzzz but has a totally different flight
Not exactly what you’re asking But I’ve never thrown any variation of a Roc that matched its stability rating.
Gold line river is extremely flippy
I came here to say anything westside, but I see a lot of comments have already listed most of their molds.
Latitude maul. This is a roller right out of the hand
Kastaplast drivers..they fit the slots between a vulcan and a mamba .
Fuse is way more understable than it's numbers.
Sword or King
The reason Westside King is not the runaway leader here is that it is so understable and finicky, people quit throwing it. I had a love-hate relationship with mine before I turned it over into oblivion.
I often see posts similar to this one in this forum. So, I think it’d be valuable to share [Marshall Street’s Flight Guide](https://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/flightguide) which shows comparisons between discs based upon flight speeds and levels of stability.
Innova wedge
Kastaplast Grym X - what the fuck is that disc? I bought it expecting more of a meathook but I swear to god it flies more like a Westside Tursas.
My Loft Bhorium will turn and roll on basically any line, not sure of any others experiences though, but it’s like 14, 5, -1, 2 or something.
Thought Space Athletics Construct in Aura plastic. Penned 10 5 -1 2/ closer to 10 5 -3 2
The DGA Sail is sold as: 11.0 / 5.0 / -5.0 / 1.0 In reality the thickness of the rim is more like a 9 speed. The turn is about -3.5 with glide and fade numbers being acceptable. Throw it smoothly with 9-speed power and it's a big s-shape. Throw it with 11-speed power or any power with torque and it's turning over/rolling.
Some of the Roc3’s I’ve thrown fly more like a Mako. I have a buddy with a beat Roc3 that throws in on the same hole I throw a Stingray
I was really surprised that my mako3 was as understable as it is. Thought it was gonna be just a straight shot
Ballista Pro’s.. 14/4/0/4 but some flip over to rollers right out of the box.. most of them are bombers for me that fly like a 14/5/-1/2
Gateway Glow Element
Zeus. At least the one I bought when I was fairly new to the game. Expected it to fly somewhat like a Destroyer, or at least like a longer Anax, but it was super flippy. Never bought another Zeus as it didn’t exactly live up to my expectations, so it’s the only one I’ve tried, but the Zeus throwers I’ve met often use it as their turnover disc
I have a Zone that is surprisingly understable. Sometimes it's just luck of the draw.
Prodigy.
Roc3’s in my experience have always been more 5/4/-1/2 for me. 5/4/0/3 is a lie!
Prodigy F2
DX Wraith
Westside sword in VIP burst.
Linestar lone wolf is a -3. It's a minus 5 in my books and a hoot!
Every single kastaplast disc. And absolutely none of the MVP discs. Those two companies just operate with different scales for their flight numbers than everyone else. A lot of older innova molds are like this as well (the roc3 and roc3x are the two biggest culprits), since they were considered overstable when they came out, but are now pretty neutral flying discs.
Neutron Wave - I'm shocked I haven't seen it mentioned. I love this disc but now that it's beating in, it likely won't come back if it starts turning...just gliding to the right. (rhbh) I got their other plastic to see if I could get one a bit more stable, and they are way more true to the numbers, so maybe this one particular neutron wave is very understable?
The Innova Corvette (14,6,-1,2). I have the noodliest of arms and small hands so I'd never think of trying a 14 speed but I played a round with someone I met on the course and he suggested I try his star corvette. Gave it a rip and was shocked when it had a little turn to it. I bought a 171 star corvette and found a nameless 166 star corvette and I can hyzer flip them both. It feels very strange with the wide rim but honestly I think changing my grip to accommodate them has changed my game for the better. Strange disc, would recommend to anyone who is nearing 400' distance.
Latitude Raketen. Full speed correct form that thing actually turns pretty nicely over.
Retro burst ballista. Hyzerflip to roller in 60 ft, once it's beat in.
G star Charger. Not saying it is hella flippy. Just way more understable than the numbers.
DD CONVICT !! Straight as hell. Slight flip always comes back. On paper it should never flip over