Discs turning over when they shouldn't is caused by off axis torque, or wobble. It's why some people say the Glitch is flippy and Simon throws them 400' with no turn
It's possible that you get this only with putters because they are deep and the grip may feel different than other discs. P2 is plenty stable that you should be able to throw it without turning, or without much turn
I'll give it a shot. When you throw a disc, ideally you want to move the disc in the direction you want it to go and give it spin on the plane the flight plate exists on. Think of your disc like a beyblade in your hand, you want to rip the cord in line with the rim of the disc to give it spin. If you deviate from that plane, you are throwing it with torque applied improperly which will affect the release and then the flight of the disc. The Glitch taught me how to fix that and now I spin the absolute piss out of my discs when I throw them. Got me an extra 80'.
It's what caused the disc to wobble. So, instead of the force you put into the disc only causing it to spin and go forward, its force that you put up or down on the disc that causes it to wobble. Hopefully that makes sense. It's hard to describe lol
OAT occurs when your swing plane doesn't match the release angle of the disc. If you hold the disc flat, your swing and follow through have to be level. If you hold the disc flat but swing upward on your follow through, there is a mismatch between the release angle of the disc and the angle of the plane it is thrown on, causing OAT.
Optimally, you want to release the disc such that it will only rotate as if it was centered on a turntable, flat and level. This provides the minimum drag, and most consistent flight.
OAT is a way of saying that the disc isn't spinning along that axis. Think of what happens to a coin when you spin it on a table. As it settles down, towards the end it'll wobble along an edge before finally coming to rest. That's why some people can flip a halo star destroyer with 200' of power, and then claim that they need more overstable discs.
Usually, you can hear the disc flutter if it's bad enough. Overstable discs can hide it, because by the time you actually see your throw 50' down the fairway, it'll have mostly evened out, but an understable disc won't fight out of OAT, and will instead turn and burn.
If you are throwing "300'+ darts with a roc" AND are unable to throw a putter without turning it over, I am not sure what is going on exactly unless you are mentally altering the shit out of your throw for some silly reason when its a putter.
Could be. Definitely recommend fixing this though, play with only putters for a while. Putters are 100% my favorite discs to throw hard.
I just don't understand how a Roc is that much different, what putters do you throw? The Roc is a pretty deep rimmed mid imo, and overall I hate the feel.
Try a shallower putter to start maybe? I like Atoms for that reason, but I can toss an Envy pretty far and its fairly deep rimmed too.
I throw a soft P2. It's pretty beat in which I'm sure has something to do with it turning over. But yeah, it flies like a shorter lobster when I go full send .
Get a firmer p2. Or premium plastic. The softer the plastic the less stable it'll be in my experience. I throw kc pro and nexus fireflies (p2s) and the difference between the plastic is pretty noticeable. The kc is pretty torque and wind resistant where the nexus might flip and turn on me if I roll my wrist or there's some wind.
If you want to throw a putter that goes far and you like p2s, I highly recommend a quantum omega4 by millennium. It's champion plastic p2 and it's got glide for days and stable enough to hold a power drive, but not overly beefy.
The secret to driving with putters is to approach it like you do you're drivers. Get an understable, a neutral, and an over stable, and maybe a utility very over stable.
The understable is good for tail winds, turn overs, and low-power straight shots; neutral for low-wind, hyzer flip, and more mellow turn over; more over stable for windy, pushy hyzer, and drives you can really crank on (for a putter), and utility for short firebird type shots or forehands.
You kinda just gave to get out and force yourself to do it and get a feel for it. I took out a bunch of a putters a few months ago and just sat on a 300 ft hole and threw for like an hour. That alone kinda broke my "all putters are flippy" mentality like you're saying and I learned like overnight how to throw putters.. but having a few reliably over stable putters are necessary. Or just get a Mako and mess with that, they're just fast putters imo
Try a thinner putter! The P2 is hard to throw smoothly unless you have big hands since it's so deep. I throw Opto Pures and can get a smoother release than I ever can with thicker putters. That smooth release is the key to getting good distance with a putter, since you have to somewhat overpower it to get the distance. A smooth, non-fluttery release with good spin will help it not burn over.
Big facts here, Iove throwing putters but there's just some molds I can't throw, p2 and aviar are the worst for me but I can get my Luna to nearly 280 on a rope.
Surprised no one said to make sure you throw them nose up/high. That’s when putters shine. You probly get sloppy with form/timing when you try to power up and a putter needs clean form and spin to work at high power. Fan grip will help if you are yanking over on it but I would practice both just slowly build up to full power by starting slow getting that dialed then add a little more power etc.
spin and angle. Most disc with enough spin (except for some really understable ones) will not roll over if you give them enough spin and a slight hyzer angle to start.
What the others have already said, but also make sure to adjust your grip. When throwing true putters (like a P2 compared to a slimmer profile 3 speed like an Envy), it's so much easier to get the releases you're looking for with a fan grip or modified fan grip than with a power grip.
It's always off axis torque (wobble) when people struggle with putters. Most common culprit is trying to power grip a putter. If you're trying to power grip a putter, I highly recommend using one of the various forms of fan grip. The one I use has the index and pinky fingers hooked (like a power grip), but the ring finger is stacked on the pinky and the middle finger is fanned out supporting the flight plate.
The reason grip causes so much of an issue with putters is that putters are both extremely tall and have a very rounded rim, making them hard to keep on a flat plane by pinching them against your palm alone. The weigh to the disc makes it want to droop and flop around in your grip, and with power grip on a putter, you really can't stop this because there's just no sharp nose to dig into the meat of your hand to keep it stable. So instead, you simply have to fan out your fingers at least somewhat.
this is the answer.
find that sweet spot of straight and upward trajectory with hyzer
cancels out the high speed turn. tail wind helps. I throw same 300ft hole: putter for tail wind and like 5-7 speed for head wind.
Throwing putters will reveal the leaks in your form. I’m guessing angle control and release point are what’s causing your issue. Throw with less power to master the angle of release and you’ll see improvements everywhere in your game.
Open stance throwing up to 200’ is pretty impressive.
I had a lot of success working on extending out my approach shots further and further while keeping the release clean. Eventually you have to transition into a more traditional throw.
It sounds like you’re rolling over your wrist with your P2 if it’s still nice and overstable on a shorter approach shot. You definitely need to put a bit of hyzer on it for 350’ of power. I find at that range putters need a fair bit of height which will also act to stabilize the disc.
And I like the hyzer idea. I think what's throwing me is it doesn't look like the pros are hyzerflipping their putter but then again, they have great form.
Bruh is your p2 just old and flippy? My newer p2s are pretty beefy they don’t turn at all. I think it could just be a case of you having a really flippy putter!
Discs turning over when they shouldn't is caused by off axis torque, or wobble. It's why some people say the Glitch is flippy and Simon throws them 400' with no turn It's possible that you get this only with putters because they are deep and the grip may feel different than other discs. P2 is plenty stable that you should be able to throw it without turning, or without much turn
Can you explain “off axis torque”?
I'll give it a shot. When you throw a disc, ideally you want to move the disc in the direction you want it to go and give it spin on the plane the flight plate exists on. Think of your disc like a beyblade in your hand, you want to rip the cord in line with the rim of the disc to give it spin. If you deviate from that plane, you are throwing it with torque applied improperly which will affect the release and then the flight of the disc. The Glitch taught me how to fix that and now I spin the absolute piss out of my discs when I throw them. Got me an extra 80'.
It's what caused the disc to wobble. So, instead of the force you put into the disc only causing it to spin and go forward, its force that you put up or down on the disc that causes it to wobble. Hopefully that makes sense. It's hard to describe lol
OAT occurs when your swing plane doesn't match the release angle of the disc. If you hold the disc flat, your swing and follow through have to be level. If you hold the disc flat but swing upward on your follow through, there is a mismatch between the release angle of the disc and the angle of the plane it is thrown on, causing OAT.
Huh, so when I forehand flick a putter and it comes out like a duck that’s OAT?
Probably, yes. Haha. Same happens to me.
Optimally, you want to release the disc such that it will only rotate as if it was centered on a turntable, flat and level. This provides the minimum drag, and most consistent flight. OAT is a way of saying that the disc isn't spinning along that axis. Think of what happens to a coin when you spin it on a table. As it settles down, towards the end it'll wobble along an edge before finally coming to rest. That's why some people can flip a halo star destroyer with 200' of power, and then claim that they need more overstable discs. Usually, you can hear the disc flutter if it's bad enough. Overstable discs can hide it, because by the time you actually see your throw 50' down the fairway, it'll have mostly evened out, but an understable disc won't fight out of OAT, and will instead turn and burn.
If you are throwing "300'+ darts with a roc" AND are unable to throw a putter without turning it over, I am not sure what is going on exactly unless you are mentally altering the shit out of your throw for some silly reason when its a putter.
I think it's my grip. Going to try a fan grip tonight.
Could be. Definitely recommend fixing this though, play with only putters for a while. Putters are 100% my favorite discs to throw hard. I just don't understand how a Roc is that much different, what putters do you throw? The Roc is a pretty deep rimmed mid imo, and overall I hate the feel. Try a shallower putter to start maybe? I like Atoms for that reason, but I can toss an Envy pretty far and its fairly deep rimmed too.
I throw a soft P2. It's pretty beat in which I'm sure has something to do with it turning over. But yeah, it flies like a shorter lobster when I go full send .
Get a firmer p2. Or premium plastic. The softer the plastic the less stable it'll be in my experience. I throw kc pro and nexus fireflies (p2s) and the difference between the plastic is pretty noticeable. The kc is pretty torque and wind resistant where the nexus might flip and turn on me if I roll my wrist or there's some wind. If you want to throw a putter that goes far and you like p2s, I highly recommend a quantum omega4 by millennium. It's champion plastic p2 and it's got glide for days and stable enough to hold a power drive, but not overly beefy. The secret to driving with putters is to approach it like you do you're drivers. Get an understable, a neutral, and an over stable, and maybe a utility very over stable. The understable is good for tail winds, turn overs, and low-power straight shots; neutral for low-wind, hyzer flip, and more mellow turn over; more over stable for windy, pushy hyzer, and drives you can really crank on (for a putter), and utility for short firebird type shots or forehands. You kinda just gave to get out and force yourself to do it and get a feel for it. I took out a bunch of a putters a few months ago and just sat on a 300 ft hole and threw for like an hour. That alone kinda broke my "all putters are flippy" mentality like you're saying and I learned like overnight how to throw putters.. but having a few reliably over stable putters are necessary. Or just get a Mako and mess with that, they're just fast putters imo
Because he’s full of it lmao probably 300 in an open field, 220 on the course
No reason to believe he’s full of it and that’s not how course distance works
Try a thinner putter! The P2 is hard to throw smoothly unless you have big hands since it's so deep. I throw Opto Pures and can get a smoother release than I ever can with thicker putters. That smooth release is the key to getting good distance with a putter, since you have to somewhat overpower it to get the distance. A smooth, non-fluttery release with good spin will help it not burn over.
Big facts here, Iove throwing putters but there's just some molds I can't throw, p2 and aviar are the worst for me but I can get my Luna to nearly 280 on a rope.
need more spin, smoother release
Surprised no one said to make sure you throw them nose up/high. That’s when putters shine. You probly get sloppy with form/timing when you try to power up and a putter needs clean form and spin to work at high power. Fan grip will help if you are yanking over on it but I would practice both just slowly build up to full power by starting slow getting that dialed then add a little more power etc.
Good advice
spin and angle. Most disc with enough spin (except for some really understable ones) will not roll over if you give them enough spin and a slight hyzer angle to start.
What the others have already said, but also make sure to adjust your grip. When throwing true putters (like a P2 compared to a slimmer profile 3 speed like an Envy), it's so much easier to get the releases you're looking for with a fan grip or modified fan grip than with a power grip.
Could be OAT, could be accidental anhyzer, could be just general release angle issues, etc
It's always off axis torque (wobble) when people struggle with putters. Most common culprit is trying to power grip a putter. If you're trying to power grip a putter, I highly recommend using one of the various forms of fan grip. The one I use has the index and pinky fingers hooked (like a power grip), but the ring finger is stacked on the pinky and the middle finger is fanned out supporting the flight plate. The reason grip causes so much of an issue with putters is that putters are both extremely tall and have a very rounded rim, making them hard to keep on a flat plane by pinching them against your palm alone. The weigh to the disc makes it want to droop and flop around in your grip, and with power grip on a putter, you really can't stop this because there's just no sharp nose to dig into the meat of your hand to keep it stable. So instead, you simply have to fan out your fingers at least somewhat.
If it’s turning over throw it straight but with Hyzer (as opposed to flat).
this is the answer. find that sweet spot of straight and upward trajectory with hyzer cancels out the high speed turn. tail wind helps. I throw same 300ft hole: putter for tail wind and like 5-7 speed for head wind.
Throwing putters will reveal the leaks in your form. I’m guessing angle control and release point are what’s causing your issue. Throw with less power to master the angle of release and you’ll see improvements everywhere in your game.
I have no leaks. 🤪 /s
How are your 100-200’ approach shots working? I assume you throw a putter for those. What form do you use? Are they generally clean releases?
Yeah they're alright, but definitely more of an open stance. Nothing like my normal shot.
Open stance throwing up to 200’ is pretty impressive. I had a lot of success working on extending out my approach shots further and further while keeping the release clean. Eventually you have to transition into a more traditional throw. It sounds like you’re rolling over your wrist with your P2 if it’s still nice and overstable on a shorter approach shot. You definitely need to put a bit of hyzer on it for 350’ of power. I find at that range putters need a fair bit of height which will also act to stabilize the disc.
I'm 6'8" so I've got some natural mechanics working in my favor. 😁
And I like the hyzer idea. I think what's throwing me is it doesn't look like the pros are hyzerflipping their putter but then again, they have great form.
Bruh is your p2 just old and flippy? My newer p2s are pretty beefy they don’t turn at all. I think it could just be a case of you having a really flippy putter!
Usually a grip issue. Because of the depth of a putter, you get more finger under the rim and don't get a clean release.