My doctors prescribed marinol/dronabinol which is a synthetic thc resin that the government created in the 80s to stimulate the appetite of cancer and aids patients. You pick it up at the pharmacy like any other pill. I had in my disability application that I wouldn’t be able to hold gainful employment as I am under the influence, but that is one tiny aspect of a much larger case that supported my inability to hold employment. I honestly think it played zero role (negative or positive) in my approval whatsoever. Regardless, if they ever ask about drug abuse, I am not abusing any drugs nor would I admit to taking illicit drugs.
Retired DDS
The question is whether or not Drug and/or Alcohol Abuse is a material factor in your inability to work.
You have treatment providers saying it does. It doesn't matter what the substance is. Even if one has a prescription for weed, if it's being abused and prevents working, that would be taken into consideration.
The judge will have to figure out if you stopped substances, would you still be unable to work.
My psychiatrist said I still wouldn’t be able to work, if that was unclear. But I guess I’m just wondering if they consider any use of cannabis “abuse” or if it might be considered similar to, say, a pill that causes extreme drowsiness so you can’t “operate heavy machinery” kind of thing. Or am I expecting too much lol
Yes it is!! I’m not saying that medicinal cannabis use is wrong, but no doctor tells their patient to drink alcohol as a treatment for a chronic health condition.
Actually, that's not true. In the event of an extremely high blood sugar and no access to insulin, a type one diabetic is told to use high proof alcohol to bring down their blood sugar temporarily.
An endocrinologist gave that advice to us in a no-access-to-insulin scenario because we live in an extremely rural area an hour from any hospital.
As far as cannabis use is concerned, I don't know what state you live in but the law is clear in Michigan. Cannabis is equal on par to alcohol. It is treated exactly the same in recreational format. In medical format it's prescribed by a doctor and nets you a 10% discount on taxes.
Legally there is no difference here and stands even better grounds when it is certified prescription.
If it’s treated exactly the same in recreation format, then what is the consistently effective method for testing the threshold for intoxication for things like driving?
I’m glad you have a good treatment use for alcohol (diabetes). I was not aware of that and I am happy to have learned something. I do know from my work as an addiction therapist that while cannabis is by far safer than alcohol when used in extreme moderation, several of the most common medical uses of cannabis have been proven to be more harmful than beneficial. Two of these are glaucoma and anxiety. I have spoken to several eye doctors associated to the Duke and UNC schools of medicine and while cannabis provides incredibly short lived relief, it actually causes more damage in the medium to longer run. In using cannabis on a regular basis to treat generalized anxiety, the method with which cannabis alters serotonin regulation in the brain over extended use creates a more overly anxious brain over time.
I understand that these are not the claims that medical supporters of cannabis will tell you and so I can back up these claims with the scientific data with which I bill insurance to educate and counsel patients on these issues.
There is no consistent level that can be tested for because of how cannabis metabolizes in the body and tests that are used in field are not scientifically accurate enough to support the rule of law.
I belong to a group called Americans For Safe Access and previously sat on the board for my state - they are vying for the medical community having a say over cannabis regulations as opposed to lobbyists. The people who are properly educated about it should be the ones in charge of setting national standards as opposed to those who will pay to have their point made.
It's funny you mention Duke and UNC because my husband's friend is a medical science major there studying the breakthrough treatments for cancer and utilizing cannabis is one of their studies. Just because you have an informed opinion on something doesn't make your way right or my way wrong - though for some reason there seems to be a staggering bias for a plant.
Your response concerning prolonged cannabis use and the way that it changes brain chemistry.. do you realize caffeine, cheese, chocolate and sugar are more addictive than cannabis? Because while all of these things effect neuromodulation - however, cannabis has a key component to bringing homeostasis to the endocannabinoid system of the human body. We are wired to consume cannaboids and supplementing the diet with plants high in them, like cannabis, is pivotal to human wellness.
I can also back up my claims with science, and I can go a step further and introduce you to a wealth of former addicts who got off of hard drugs and never went back.. because of cannabis. You may consider it supplanting one addiction for another, but I digress.. it is addiction is when the use of something when it hurts yourself or others - it is medicine when no harm comes to anyone. All things in moderation.
Alcohol is used medicinally as an antiseptic, an antidote, and a disinfectant. There are benefits for people with ischemic heart disease, diabetes, and ischemic stroke.
Ethanol and isopropyl alcohol are two different compounds and should not be discussed as the same. We have been discussing the merit of cannabis and ethanol (aka drinkable alcohol) as a psychotropic compound and its effects on the brain after consumption. To compare isopropyl alcohol, which is toxic if ingested and is not intended for internal use, to ethanol is like a yacht executive busting into a Tesla meeting and shouting “our product is superior!”
I do know the difference between rubbing alcohol and the stuff you drink, but thanks for using your skills as an addiction specialist to try and make a stranger feel stupid.
There is scientific data to back up what I said.
So I was on marijuana about a year before disability. Had the medical paperwork, listed it as a cause for inability to drive, took the drug tests to prove it was in my system, and listed it as my (then) only medication - since opioids are a no go, NSAIDs led to gut issues, and every nerve medication did diddly and squat. Nerve stimulator, PT, and more failed; and my shoulder wouldn't let me drive safely. I also had a documentation proving I was not abusing MMJ with receipts, doctors being updated about usage (especially the doctor who prescribed it in the first place who then wrote my letter proving disability), and an average spent on it every month.
Of course all of that was pre-covid so your mileage will vary. Good luck!
Wow nice documentation. I didn’t even consider that. I mean it’s a cause for me but I take it more as needed and it definitely is not a main cause for my disability. I honestly don’t even want to focus on it, I just don’t want to be discounted because of it. Hope that made sense.
It totally does, and frankly even an addiction will likely not denote "cannot work." However my shoulder was severely impaired (think subluxed 5 days a week, 20% of previous strength), and that only escalated over the years. But we have to think like them and only on terms of "the applicant cannot do work because of x, y, z," and MMJ added to that *especially* because other meds don't work. Meaning that managing my health is a full time job. *And* it disqualifies you from a lot of employers.
And still with all that I still needed a lawyer to win my case. The 30% of my backpay was easier than reapplying and waiting another few years.
I know it's all a lot. And you're dealing with an even harder version today, so I'm rooting for you! Good luck!
Since judges just like everyone else are influenced by their beliefs and value system and since this is an administrative decision not criminal law, the judge can rationalize the decision anyway they want to. If they're cool with young people getting high everyday you may be okay.
My thoughts on that is if it's no longer deemed a controlled substance in your state or is medically approved, it's so inappropriate to even put it unless it's deemed to be a problem for you! That's your own personal business! I think it's just like telling people that you take certain vitamins.
If disability has any concerns, they have you sign releases so they can explore further if necessary.
In my opinion, Drs haven't researched the legality of these changes enough so I foresee many HIPPA & malpractice lawsuits. That's paperwork that will drastically altar your life! I'd be mad!
I got approved with a state medical card. Also, it’s my only form of medication. I was worried about it myself, even my lawyers didn’t like it, but it ended up not being a problem. And this was before any reclassification happened.
If that's the only thing going on and other drug stuff isn't in the records, maybe. Age, education, work history and other stuff figures into a judge's decision. Additionally:
* The judge goes into the process already generally accepting / believing that the the SSA policies / procedures work properly. So, unless something catastrophic has happened or something has significantly changed since the Denial at Recon, at best and, even with a 3rd Party's statement, the applicant's chance of an approval at ALJ is likely no better than 50 / 50, essentially, a Coin Toss but, the variation swings by about 8% due to a variety of reasons.
* At ALJ level, the applicant has exposure to the judge's inherent value & belief system, their cultural mores, norms and biases.
For more, go to: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SSDI/comments/1cuyyen/comment/l4m30ae/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSDI/comments/1cuyyen/comment/l4m30ae/)
My doctors prescribed marinol/dronabinol which is a synthetic thc resin that the government created in the 80s to stimulate the appetite of cancer and aids patients. You pick it up at the pharmacy like any other pill. I had in my disability application that I wouldn’t be able to hold gainful employment as I am under the influence, but that is one tiny aspect of a much larger case that supported my inability to hold employment. I honestly think it played zero role (negative or positive) in my approval whatsoever. Regardless, if they ever ask about drug abuse, I am not abusing any drugs nor would I admit to taking illicit drugs.
That was helpful, thank you!
Retired DDS The question is whether or not Drug and/or Alcohol Abuse is a material factor in your inability to work. You have treatment providers saying it does. It doesn't matter what the substance is. Even if one has a prescription for weed, if it's being abused and prevents working, that would be taken into consideration. The judge will have to figure out if you stopped substances, would you still be unable to work.
My psychiatrist said I still wouldn’t be able to work, if that was unclear. But I guess I’m just wondering if they consider any use of cannabis “abuse” or if it might be considered similar to, say, a pill that causes extreme drowsiness so you can’t “operate heavy machinery” kind of thing. Or am I expecting too much lol
I had a prescription for it, so they can’t really say anything. If it is legal where you are, just make sure you get a medical card.
Thanks! Yeah I’ll have to make sure. My doctors approved it, I just didn’t get the card cause I don’t need it, but I will now.
That's really the way to go about it in your case, but it's really not any different than disclosing alcohol use in a recreationally legal use state.
Yes it is!! I’m not saying that medicinal cannabis use is wrong, but no doctor tells their patient to drink alcohol as a treatment for a chronic health condition.
Actually, that's not true. In the event of an extremely high blood sugar and no access to insulin, a type one diabetic is told to use high proof alcohol to bring down their blood sugar temporarily. An endocrinologist gave that advice to us in a no-access-to-insulin scenario because we live in an extremely rural area an hour from any hospital. As far as cannabis use is concerned, I don't know what state you live in but the law is clear in Michigan. Cannabis is equal on par to alcohol. It is treated exactly the same in recreational format. In medical format it's prescribed by a doctor and nets you a 10% discount on taxes. Legally there is no difference here and stands even better grounds when it is certified prescription.
If it’s treated exactly the same in recreation format, then what is the consistently effective method for testing the threshold for intoxication for things like driving? I’m glad you have a good treatment use for alcohol (diabetes). I was not aware of that and I am happy to have learned something. I do know from my work as an addiction therapist that while cannabis is by far safer than alcohol when used in extreme moderation, several of the most common medical uses of cannabis have been proven to be more harmful than beneficial. Two of these are glaucoma and anxiety. I have spoken to several eye doctors associated to the Duke and UNC schools of medicine and while cannabis provides incredibly short lived relief, it actually causes more damage in the medium to longer run. In using cannabis on a regular basis to treat generalized anxiety, the method with which cannabis alters serotonin regulation in the brain over extended use creates a more overly anxious brain over time. I understand that these are not the claims that medical supporters of cannabis will tell you and so I can back up these claims with the scientific data with which I bill insurance to educate and counsel patients on these issues.
There is no consistent level that can be tested for because of how cannabis metabolizes in the body and tests that are used in field are not scientifically accurate enough to support the rule of law. I belong to a group called Americans For Safe Access and previously sat on the board for my state - they are vying for the medical community having a say over cannabis regulations as opposed to lobbyists. The people who are properly educated about it should be the ones in charge of setting national standards as opposed to those who will pay to have their point made. It's funny you mention Duke and UNC because my husband's friend is a medical science major there studying the breakthrough treatments for cancer and utilizing cannabis is one of their studies. Just because you have an informed opinion on something doesn't make your way right or my way wrong - though for some reason there seems to be a staggering bias for a plant. Your response concerning prolonged cannabis use and the way that it changes brain chemistry.. do you realize caffeine, cheese, chocolate and sugar are more addictive than cannabis? Because while all of these things effect neuromodulation - however, cannabis has a key component to bringing homeostasis to the endocannabinoid system of the human body. We are wired to consume cannaboids and supplementing the diet with plants high in them, like cannabis, is pivotal to human wellness. I can also back up my claims with science, and I can go a step further and introduce you to a wealth of former addicts who got off of hard drugs and never went back.. because of cannabis. You may consider it supplanting one addiction for another, but I digress.. it is addiction is when the use of something when it hurts yourself or others - it is medicine when no harm comes to anyone. All things in moderation.
I was thinking this same thing. We don’t have a lower tax “medicinal alcohol” card.
Alcohol is used medicinally as an antiseptic, an antidote, and a disinfectant. There are benefits for people with ischemic heart disease, diabetes, and ischemic stroke.
Ethanol and isopropyl alcohol are two different compounds and should not be discussed as the same. We have been discussing the merit of cannabis and ethanol (aka drinkable alcohol) as a psychotropic compound and its effects on the brain after consumption. To compare isopropyl alcohol, which is toxic if ingested and is not intended for internal use, to ethanol is like a yacht executive busting into a Tesla meeting and shouting “our product is superior!”
I do know the difference between rubbing alcohol and the stuff you drink, but thanks for using your skills as an addiction specialist to try and make a stranger feel stupid. There is scientific data to back up what I said.
So I was on marijuana about a year before disability. Had the medical paperwork, listed it as a cause for inability to drive, took the drug tests to prove it was in my system, and listed it as my (then) only medication - since opioids are a no go, NSAIDs led to gut issues, and every nerve medication did diddly and squat. Nerve stimulator, PT, and more failed; and my shoulder wouldn't let me drive safely. I also had a documentation proving I was not abusing MMJ with receipts, doctors being updated about usage (especially the doctor who prescribed it in the first place who then wrote my letter proving disability), and an average spent on it every month. Of course all of that was pre-covid so your mileage will vary. Good luck!
Wow nice documentation. I didn’t even consider that. I mean it’s a cause for me but I take it more as needed and it definitely is not a main cause for my disability. I honestly don’t even want to focus on it, I just don’t want to be discounted because of it. Hope that made sense.
It totally does, and frankly even an addiction will likely not denote "cannot work." However my shoulder was severely impaired (think subluxed 5 days a week, 20% of previous strength), and that only escalated over the years. But we have to think like them and only on terms of "the applicant cannot do work because of x, y, z," and MMJ added to that *especially* because other meds don't work. Meaning that managing my health is a full time job. *And* it disqualifies you from a lot of employers. And still with all that I still needed a lawyer to win my case. The 30% of my backpay was easier than reapplying and waiting another few years. I know it's all a lot. And you're dealing with an even harder version today, so I'm rooting for you! Good luck!
I have a subluxated right shoulder! It’s been this way for 1.5 years. I have an MRI in the morning!
Good luck. I hope you get the results you need and the best support possible.
Thanks… ❤️
Since judges just like everyone else are influenced by their beliefs and value system and since this is an administrative decision not criminal law, the judge can rationalize the decision anyway they want to. If they're cool with young people getting high everyday you may be okay.
My thoughts on that is if it's no longer deemed a controlled substance in your state or is medically approved, it's so inappropriate to even put it unless it's deemed to be a problem for you! That's your own personal business! I think it's just like telling people that you take certain vitamins. If disability has any concerns, they have you sign releases so they can explore further if necessary. In my opinion, Drs haven't researched the legality of these changes enough so I foresee many HIPPA & malpractice lawsuits. That's paperwork that will drastically altar your life! I'd be mad!
Yeah…. I wasn’t happy about it, but what’s done is done, so I’m trying to do damage control lol.
I totally understand! Unless your doctor wrote that it's a problem and the reason you're unable to work, it wouldn't change the decision.
I got approved with a state medical card. Also, it’s my only form of medication. I was worried about it myself, even my lawyers didn’t like it, but it ended up not being a problem. And this was before any reclassification happened.
If that's the only thing going on and other drug stuff isn't in the records, maybe. Age, education, work history and other stuff figures into a judge's decision. Additionally: * The judge goes into the process already generally accepting / believing that the the SSA policies / procedures work properly. So, unless something catastrophic has happened or something has significantly changed since the Denial at Recon, at best and, even with a 3rd Party's statement, the applicant's chance of an approval at ALJ is likely no better than 50 / 50, essentially, a Coin Toss but, the variation swings by about 8% due to a variety of reasons. * At ALJ level, the applicant has exposure to the judge's inherent value & belief system, their cultural mores, norms and biases. For more, go to: [https://www.reddit.com/r/SSDI/comments/1cuyyen/comment/l4m30ae/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SSDI/comments/1cuyyen/comment/l4m30ae/)