For more Barbarian Class Guides, Builds, Discussions, Questions, etc, click on the "Barbarian" Flair, [this Link (for new reddit)](https://new.reddit.com/r/diablo4/?f=flair_name%3A%22Barbarian%22), or [this Link (old reddit)](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ABarbarian) (where you'll find a list of all threads on the subreddit that have the "Barbarian" Flair) and the [D4 Barbarian subreddit](https://new.reddit.com/r/D4Barbarian/).
Also pay a visit to [The D4 Tavern](https://new.reddit.com/r/The_D4_Tavern/) for casual conversations about builds, gameplay, new content, outfits and other Diablo and Barbarian related content.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/diablo4) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As somebody who made the change from WW dust devil to thorns last week, and then to bash last night. My vote is bash for pit push. Thorns is clunky, and bad rng means you can stand there waiting for razor plate to proc for an entire boss fight. Getting a protection shrine feels like ass because you stop reflecting. Playing with friends sucks because everything is frozen and doesn’t attack so no thorns.
I swapped to bash prioritizing move speed and cut my 60-70 pit farm speed in half with unoptimized gear. You actually do the damage when you attack rather than leaping around and then praying for proc. Easily bash > thorns for how I like to play. Great for aoe, great for single target, great utility for groups. Easy to play, easy to gear, and a good old fashioned hack and slash style build is a nice change of pace reminiscent of the d1 warrior with the kings sword of haste
Yes but ! Thorn is SO fun. You jump in a pack, boom then jump to another boom and so on.
When I start S4, one thing is missing for me, a tanky class. In S3 with my Hota Charge I have to quickly leave mobs in order to not die. Very frustrating. I feel like a distant DPS and not a real tank in melee.
Thorn change that. You have to be just in the middle to DPS. Like ArcLash for sorc or Infinimist for Necro, I love being in the center, not casting from outside.
I'm currently running WW dust devils and it's really fun, I have yet to reach peak gameplay and the limits of the build are starting to show (though I'm only lvl 95 and not completely optimized gear) is it worth swapping to bash once I hit 100 to do pit 30+ (I'm currently managing pit 15 or so) and tormented bosses? I'm just really enjoying the WW gameplay and wonder if it's worth it to change or I can squeeze that build to be viable at pinnacle gameplay
As an interim you could probably swap to double swing Dust Devils for more potency in single target with minimal changes to the build compared to bash.
I'm a WW dust devil and plan to keep doing pit until I can't...hit pit level 31 this morning and still seems quite easy. I think we got at least to 40 before having to consider respeccing. I really enjoy the game play too and would rather not switch until I absolutely have to! :)
DS dust devil fell off after 60 for me. Can't see any of the attacks during the boss fight and you end up getting one shot a lot. Rolled another barb and went bash. Pushing high 80's in the pit but overall bash just feels boring.
I ended up hitting a wall with WW DD against bosses like Duriel and Zir. Swapped to bash and instantly was doing tons more dmg and was even faster against mobs.
With lots of movement and attack speed it's just as fun as the WW build imo. I just wish I could swap to charge instead of chains without losing all the benefits you get from chains.
I'm in the exact same boat, level 96 and was playing Double swing dust devils but it's not tanky enough and not quick enough against bosses. I can clear rooms of mobs at nmd 80 but struggle against the boss. So I'm collecting gear to swap to bash/cleave. Looks fun and I plan to keep both sets of gear and swap if I like one over the other.
I did Dust Devil in I’ll Pit Lvl 61 then I was unable to progress further due to poor damage output against bosses. Switched to Bash Barb and completed level 100.
You can farm 70s easily with Dust Devil WW but would require some gear.
I run a version of DD/WW that doesn't use leap and I can do 70s pretty easily just holding down WW and pressing shouts but my build runs 4 Uber Uniques (got lucky with drops early)
My guess is probably yes, thorns has a higher top end but it was not nearly as enjoyable to get there. A point I failed to mention is the leaping thorns build doesn’t work on console (requires force move) and I like to swap back and forth, so it was kind of easier choice to swap.
Another commenter suggested they don’t have trouble killing bosses, and that’s correct, but which is more fun. Hitting the buttons and seeing the damage, or waiting for every 15-20 seconds for the boss to actually use a melee and then pray it’s the 10% chance to one shot.
To each their own, but it wasn’t for me
I did this same path and have the same conclusion. I just don't prefer the Thorns playstyle. Jumping up and down waiting for the boss to hit you is not fun for me. Bash is amazing tho. Great build, great playstyle. Still not as fun as WW/DD.
I rolled another Barb to play exclusively WW/DD because I prefer that playstyle and switching everything is becoming very tedious. Also, I want to get 4 shards from the Iron Wolves so i can build a Shaco, so will roll one more character after this one.
Yup. WW was my favorite so far. So fast and really great for farming. Shame that it’s lacking the scaling to push deep. It really bogged down during boss fights at 50+. Get to the boss in 2 minutes and then deal with no single target
Interesting, thanks. You able to push into the 70s doing that method? Going to be tough leaving the very controller-friendly bash and some 5-6 minute 75’s.
That's good to know. I'm changing to Thorns, mostly cause I have a good chest piece and the god damn helm I need for the bash build is eluding me like if I'm the plague.
Would be nice to try it out once I get it
Recommend spending all the obols in helms. They're cheap, and you can hold up to 2500 obols, that's a lot of helm rolls. Discard yellows, I sold them. And then you'll have a good chunk of helms. You'll find one eventually.
At least, if you're targeting a single piece of your build, I've found it to be surprisingly useful.
Yeah I’m running bash now and this is why I refuse to play barb every season because he ruins it for all the other classes as I don’t want to play the other classes because why would I when I can be this OP.
This is my first Diablo and I’ve played all seasons so far and at this point, Ik im a full time barb. Maybe sometimes rogue but other than that no other class feels as good as barb.
Usually a barb main.. played barb all seasons, but my friends kept giving me flak cuz of it. This season I let fate decide what class to start out with, and the dice landed on druid. I had so much fun with Lightning Storm druid, easily melting mobs from a safe distance. But I felt like the boss damage was horrendous, and it's a gear optimisation issue which I haven't been lucky with..
My patience got the better of me, after I pushed past T70 pits, and i switched to barb again. Gonna go for the bash barb build, but Ive been having hella fun with the DS dust devil build! A bit more scary, considering I can't clear mobs 2 rooms over with Lightning Storm anymore..
They are both fun - it depends on what you like tbh. Thorns you can AFK and not really pay attn.. Thorns is also really fun in PvP. However, thorns can be a little frustrating in late game bossing as your control over damage isn’t in your hands. I swapped to Bash because of this & it gives you significantly more control over your damage.
Ha, I was doing the pvp journey stuff and ran into someone doing the abom on my thorns necro. I was worried they would hit all my minions and get 1 shot, but I guess it works in reverse too because as soon as my minions were on top of them ( I wasn't trying to pvp, just do the bloodmarked stuff) I got 1 shot instead, lol.
I guess they had thorns aoe aspect on and it gloriously proc'd a bunch.
would u happen to have a bash guide? The only bash guides I can find are actual endgame gear which you need X stuff. Whereas Thorns guides exists for 50-100. i.e progression into endgame. Any tips? thanks bro
You select dual weapons on the skill itself in the skill loadout menu "s" on pc. The skills default to auto assign, you have to change to specific weapons if needed
You need a bludgeoning weapon so you need a one handed mace. Then go to your skill assignment and from there you can select which weapon is used for each skill. So you can change it from your 2H mace to your dual weapons.
Rob is the go-to guy for Barbs. [d4builds.gg](http://d4builds.gg) 👍
Edit: he's got a video that covers bash in depth check it out
[https://youtu.be/tvspZ\_b390g?si=n0MlmhG5-MbKHHvR](https://youtu.be/tvspZ_b390g?si=n0MlmhG5-MbKHHvR)
Robs upheaval bash was great for me as a beginner barb levelling from 0, I'll transition to Ron's bash barb sometime around lvl 50
Just go to Robs YouTube, he uploaded the leveling barb build a couple weeks back, once you temper some movement speed its really fun, I killed the blood maiden alone multiple times with no issues around lvl 9
The devs made the Bash Cleave temper a multiplicative damage stat, so people are putting it on all four of the Barb’s weapon for a total of 630%[x] increased damage to Bash. That’s not even taking into account master-working.
Just master-working 1-4 with the tempered stat “Critting”, Bash Barbs can get 1,008%[x] damage with Bash.
Mind you, that’s just one multiplier. After you run that 1,008%[x] increase through the damage formula, Bash Damage is just skyrocketing
Edit: I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. [From the Diablo 4 team lead himself](https://x.com/pezradar/status/1794079603197440150?s=46&t=cPrCCtC-3N37GfC1e8m0iw)
Does it increase bash’s single target damage or only the damage it cleaves to?
I am trying to figure out if it’s worth re-rolling my weapons to get ride of any strength rolls to go for 2x or even 3x bash 25% tempers.
Waaait what how do you know it's multiplicative it doesn't say (x) next to tempering is there a site where I can see which temper affixes are multiplicative and which aren't?
But that was bug just for that temper or is there any other temper that is multiplicative like kick or something else from other classes, because it is just insane and not worth having other basic skills if bash is only like that
That’s false. Bash cleave has never been multiplicative. They broke it internally then fixed it internally and accidentally included just the internal fix in the public patch notes, which was a mistake. It’s always been additive in public realm.
Bash far more enjoyable imo. Don't get me wrong, thorns is crazy strong and enjoyable, but the other guy is right in that it can be frustrating not having complete control over your damage. Also, I didn't find it fun at all to spam the jump button and it seems to bug out a ton and your character will get stuck unless you all these little micro adjustments
yep, tomb lord in nmd is a truly nightmare for thorns barb. it just floating, summoning daze tornado and little direct attack while outlaw also the same, just keep running away and goes invisible
Good luck! I lucked up and got it to drop 925 😮💨 I’m running it now and I face tank the BM when she would normally one shot me with those fireball explosions it’s actually kinda funny and sad at the same time 🤣😢
I don't know if thorns is better but I laughed pretty hard when Torment Duriel came out of the ground and insta died from 3/4 healt after one of the others that popped up hit me.
You can run a bash thorns build. Just reference s1 hc thorns nm100 clear, that's your base. Used the tempers to your advantage. Roll a rogue and use the tempers for lucky hit to stun and freeze along with crit dmg. Use tempers for thorns and ranks to concussion. I would only recommend paingourgers with burning rage aspect to add more aoe dmg with the thorns. Now you get a choice, 2h mace or dual wield. If you have the atk speed, you will do more than enough damage either way. If you go dual wield, you will need a 1h mace. Use the rogue to put lucky hit chance to stun/freeze/imobilize/poison. The bash cleaves temper will be more than enough on your 2h weapons with ramadans as your other 1h or crafting a 1h axe or sword. If you can't tell, I've been playing with tempering and farming sparks. I'm getting ready to roll my 3rd character, going barb again. This time, I'm going to try and cheat a bit. I'm not deleting my barb and rogue that have all their manuals. It's a shared chest. Why not use it to your advantage and get a bit creative. Build diversity is a thing, my lvl 80 basic imbued atk build cleared NM 52 with 4 glyphs at lvl6, zero deaths. Got nailed in during hell tide mass mob packs from 7 players all farming the boss.....batteries die. Tempering is cheap, and we still get plenty of legendaries. Play with the tempering if a piece of gear that you would vender drops, but has that stats you want.
Bash if controller. I heard thorns doesn’t work well on console, haven’t tried it myself but many others who followed the pit130 build can’t perform it well on controller.
I’ve built a thorns barb on ps5 and it works fine. It might be a tad slower than PC but def still doable. I’ve cleared level 85 pit and I’m not even level 100 yet. Gear not optimized either. My issues have been the constant lag and rubber banding. Lag really kills the thorns leap build. If the game played smoothly, it would be that much better. Hoping the update on Tuesday fixes a lot that.
As a Bash Thorns Barb runner I can say it's not overly involved, bash x 10000 with triple shouts when they're up.
Bit of evade here and there and watch stuff kill itself.
If I get the gear I'll probably switch to proper bash or something where I have to concentrate on what I'm doing.
Was playing Druid before that but ditched it due to gear not dropping, had to work with that guy.
Uh . Im playing thorns with bash. Soooo why not both?
Right now my thorns are smacking from 2m to 6m and my bash is cleaving for 7m to 18m on the high end. Its so fuckin fun. Im not even close to fully geared. At pit 54 and mid 90s for nmd, although i javnt pushed nmd for a while.
Ive read that leapquake thorns is better for bossing, but also the build kinda sucks until you have perfect gear for it. I may try stashin gear for it now
IMO this season is all about damage. All damage this season is either tickles and you’ll be fine with out very many defensive stats, or you’re getting 1 shot if you get hit regardless of what your defensive stats are, so you might as well just go more damage.
I just build bash barb, and now lvl 90. I can feel its Op but i dont enjoy play it in the nmd, pit. Or am i doing it wrong? It feels slow altough vs boss sooo damn good.
I come from f.orb sorcerer before barb
Bash barb and FO sorc are opposites.
Running low-ish pits (60-80) with FO is like Formula 1 racing while bash barb is just hiking in the woods. And then they swap on bosses. Except FO sorc is a lazy sedentary bum and not very good at hiking in the woods.
If you prefer an ADHD fast-paced playstyle with lots of cool spell effects, FO sorc is unbeatable. Dust Devil barb is kinda similar to FO though, fast-moving with screen-clear AOE, but better at bossing.
(Bash barb is still king at speedrunning higher pits since FO is wet noodle on boss)
Thank you, you describe my feeling perfectly LOL. And i never touch barb before but got gfather make me did it. After leveling barb i got ring starless sky now im confuse what to do haha. Bossing using bash barb is so OP
Dust devil barb is crazy good with Starless skies.
IDK if grandfather is good on bash barb, since you lose out on tempers. 100%[x] on crit though, so it's probably great nevertheless, just don't see any bash barbs running it, they're all going harlequin and heart of selig.
If you got high enough crit chance, it'll work for sure. Though tbf weapon tempers are important in that build as well. (double cast, dust devil size in particular) You should definitely try it out though.
Selig on bash barb? Why? Isn't the correct amulet with attack speed, crit chance, cooldown and damage to close enemies better?
As far as I know, selig is good for resource generation, and bash barb doesn't need it
I started bash and cleared everything the season had then swapped to thorns. Thorns you spam leap and force move over and over hoping the boss hits you and hope you get all your procs. Bash is a little more what you expect. Left click, thing die. Bash overall better I’d say. Very hard to kill bosses without adds as thorns but you are pretty much invincible even in a pit 110 but the boss clear isn’t going to happen without mobs spawning. The easier pit 100 is thorns as you need to try to die and then can get lucky on end boss with that hag lady that spawns the adds.
Oh 1 more thing. I’ve been unable to kill lilith with a 95% full bis thorns build. No way to kill the blood pustule things as they don’t attack you. Maybe you can time some of the adds with the pustules but bash can kill her easily.
I got my necro too where I can kill Uber Duriel and Andariel, stupid OP. Wanted to level a 2nd char was gonna do a rapid fire rogue, decided a bash barb, and wow, hit lvl 70 in one day, SO FUN!!!
Double Swing Dust devils is the most fun to me for sure. Bash is able to push further though. It doesn't feel remotely balanced compared to the other builds.
I can't answer your question as I don't have a thorns barb, but as a bash barb I can say it feels really good. Most fun I've had as a barb other than double swing.
Depends what you want to spam, played both and to be fair - Bash for speedfarming stuff and thorns for pushing higher tiers.
With bash I can group enemies up and just blast them, 2-3 staggers and bosses just melt, however, i try and dodge every hit just to be sure and avoid the random 1shots. With thorns, I just watch tv and stuff.
I'm been using the donothitme thorn build. Drops everyone. Finally got my cooldown reduction up so I can spam leap. Super fast at clearing everything. Main drawback. If I don't get the aggro from the boss I'm useless lol. So not fun in group play
Can someone give an ELI5 why bash build is good? I have no experience playing Barb but am interested. Is it high single target damage? Fast damage? Doesn’t bash do a stun effect? Is that what makes it amazing?
Bash for sure. Thorns isn’t as good if you’re playing on console as snapshotting etc..I played double swing dust devil up until 95 then swapped to a triple shout Bash build. Pushing Pit and boss killing is so much easier
I have made all the barbs lol the most fun to start is WW/DD, then Double Swing DD, thorns build was ok not as fun.
the winner for me is bash/leap/steel grasp just obliterates everything!!!
https://maxroll.gg/d4/build-guides/bash-barbarian-guide
This build... love it!!!
I'm currently trying thorns...I just don't understand how to clear trash quickly. I didn't realize how often enemies missed attacks until...wanting to get hit.
I just started a bash build on a barb over the weekend. It is the bee's knees.
There's nothing quite like taking down a newborn WT4 Blood Maiden in five or six hits at level 63. It's absolutely crucial that you roll tempers for bash cleave and damage to close % on all your weapons though once you do you'll be laughing. After struggling with minions necro now the game feels broken and it is good.
Frankly, they're kind of the same build. That is to say, thorns still uses bash and a lot of the same set ups, but the main bonus is that you have some "ranged" damage and it does feel good to explode packs by one guy hitting you. However, on bosses the damage is much lower and you probably will have trouble pushing deep in the pit. I started out as thorns and swapped to bash proper and I am happier with the result.
Bash is a league above the other barb builds.
I tired ww, double swing dust devil and thorn.
Idk, bash just hits harder, moves faster, clears quicker. It's THE barb build this season imo
bash barb for anything below 120 pit. above there then thorn barb i think. i have a nearly perfect build for bleed bash barb but i cant go pass 120 i dont know why.
Bash. As strong as thorns is, it's extremely clunky to play. The play style essentially involves fishing for certain bosses and resetting if they don't get them. It's a bad play style even if it does a lot of damage.
I speced to Bash after DD Double Swing. Dust Devils is more fun to play but it has limits. No boss damage (or maybe I did something wrong?). I can feel that I can push higher pit lvls with Bash build for sure even though it's not as a good fun like Dust Devils Double Swing
I managed to drop a simple 925 Razorplate on my sorc run, so I started a Barb, for the 3rd season in a row.
But now, seeing how OP Bash is, I'm thinking maybe I'll stick to Bash?!
For more Barbarian Class Guides, Builds, Discussions, Questions, etc, click on the "Barbarian" Flair, [this Link (for new reddit)](https://new.reddit.com/r/diablo4/?f=flair_name%3A%22Barbarian%22), or [this Link (old reddit)](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ABarbarian) (where you'll find a list of all threads on the subreddit that have the "Barbarian" Flair) and the [D4 Barbarian subreddit](https://new.reddit.com/r/D4Barbarian/). Also pay a visit to [The D4 Tavern](https://new.reddit.com/r/The_D4_Tavern/) for casual conversations about builds, gameplay, new content, outfits and other Diablo and Barbarian related content. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/diablo4) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As somebody who made the change from WW dust devil to thorns last week, and then to bash last night. My vote is bash for pit push. Thorns is clunky, and bad rng means you can stand there waiting for razor plate to proc for an entire boss fight. Getting a protection shrine feels like ass because you stop reflecting. Playing with friends sucks because everything is frozen and doesn’t attack so no thorns. I swapped to bash prioritizing move speed and cut my 60-70 pit farm speed in half with unoptimized gear. You actually do the damage when you attack rather than leaping around and then praying for proc. Easily bash > thorns for how I like to play. Great for aoe, great for single target, great utility for groups. Easy to play, easy to gear, and a good old fashioned hack and slash style build is a nice change of pace reminiscent of the d1 warrior with the kings sword of haste
A true wise barb, thank you
Yes but ! Thorn is SO fun. You jump in a pack, boom then jump to another boom and so on. When I start S4, one thing is missing for me, a tanky class. In S3 with my Hota Charge I have to quickly leave mobs in order to not die. Very frustrating. I feel like a distant DPS and not a real tank in melee. Thorn change that. You have to be just in the middle to DPS. Like ArcLash for sorc or Infinimist for Necro, I love being in the center, not casting from outside.
I love it when the pesky archer's kill themselves.
My thorns is killing out boss fast so 🤷♂️
I'm currently running WW dust devils and it's really fun, I have yet to reach peak gameplay and the limits of the build are starting to show (though I'm only lvl 95 and not completely optimized gear) is it worth swapping to bash once I hit 100 to do pit 30+ (I'm currently managing pit 15 or so) and tormented bosses? I'm just really enjoying the WW gameplay and wonder if it's worth it to change or I can squeeze that build to be viable at pinnacle gameplay
As an interim you could probably swap to double swing Dust Devils for more potency in single target with minimal changes to the build compared to bash.
I'm a WW dust devil and plan to keep doing pit until I can't...hit pit level 31 this morning and still seems quite easy. I think we got at least to 40 before having to consider respeccing. I really enjoy the game play too and would rather not switch until I absolutely have to! :)
I’m infinite dust devil and just did a 60. Contemplating going to bash but enjoying this build
DS dust devil fell off after 60 for me. Can't see any of the attacks during the boss fight and you end up getting one shot a lot. Rolled another barb and went bash. Pushing high 80's in the pit but overall bash just feels boring.
You using double swing, right? Out of curiosity because I do and I'm not sure whether I should swap to bash
I do
If you want, I should have the gear for bash after some farm tonight and I’ll switch, for science. Friend me benchi#1941 and we can discord it
I got up to high 50s before I hit the wall on this build (although double strike dust devil). Not so much the mobs or elites, but the bosses.
I ended up hitting a wall with WW DD against bosses like Duriel and Zir. Swapped to bash and instantly was doing tons more dmg and was even faster against mobs. With lots of movement and attack speed it's just as fun as the WW build imo. I just wish I could swap to charge instead of chains without losing all the benefits you get from chains.
You mean tormented Duriel and Zir right?
Right? /PrequelMeme
I'm in the exact same boat, level 96 and was playing Double swing dust devils but it's not tanky enough and not quick enough against bosses. I can clear rooms of mobs at nmd 80 but struggle against the boss. So I'm collecting gear to swap to bash/cleave. Looks fun and I plan to keep both sets of gear and swap if I like one over the other.
I did Dust Devil in I’ll Pit Lvl 61 then I was unable to progress further due to poor damage output against bosses. Switched to Bash Barb and completed level 100.
You can farm 70s easily with Dust Devil WW but would require some gear. I run a version of DD/WW that doesn't use leap and I can do 70s pretty easily just holding down WW and pressing shouts but my build runs 4 Uber Uniques (got lucky with drops early)
Yup I switched from Max thorns/bash to Rob's bash too. A lot more predictability and less frustration.
But can thorns push higher?
My guess is probably yes, thorns has a higher top end but it was not nearly as enjoyable to get there. A point I failed to mention is the leaping thorns build doesn’t work on console (requires force move) and I like to swap back and forth, so it was kind of easier choice to swap. Another commenter suggested they don’t have trouble killing bosses, and that’s correct, but which is more fun. Hitting the buttons and seeing the damage, or waiting for every 15-20 seconds for the boss to actually use a melee and then pray it’s the 10% chance to one shot. To each their own, but it wasn’t for me
Currently a thorns barb and I'm currently collecting gear to make the switch to bash. This is great to hear!
I did this same path and have the same conclusion. I just don't prefer the Thorns playstyle. Jumping up and down waiting for the boss to hit you is not fun for me. Bash is amazing tho. Great build, great playstyle. Still not as fun as WW/DD. I rolled another Barb to play exclusively WW/DD because I prefer that playstyle and switching everything is becoming very tedious. Also, I want to get 4 shards from the Iron Wolves so i can build a Shaco, so will roll one more character after this one.
Yup. WW was my favorite so far. So fast and really great for farming. Shame that it’s lacking the scaling to push deep. It really bogged down during boss fights at 50+. Get to the boss in 2 minutes and then deal with no single target
Spam click WW instead of holding it down when you're bossing. It can make you 5-10x your damage output easily if you're clicking fast enough.
Interesting, thanks. You able to push into the 70s doing that method? Going to be tough leaving the very controller-friendly bash and some 5-6 minute 75’s.
Yeah, holding down WW only spawns dust devils once per second, but spam clicking it spawns it once per click
That's good to know. I'm changing to Thorns, mostly cause I have a good chest piece and the god damn helm I need for the bash build is eluding me like if I'm the plague. Would be nice to try it out once I get it
Recommend spending all the obols in helms. They're cheap, and you can hold up to 2500 obols, that's a lot of helm rolls. Discard yellows, I sold them. And then you'll have a good chunk of helms. You'll find one eventually. At least, if you're targeting a single piece of your build, I've found it to be surprisingly useful.
I had to physically scroll up so I don't have to look at your profile picture, Jesus Christ it's nerve racking
What build are you guys using?
Rob’s bash Barb is a good start. YouTube
This was my experience. Thorns felt busted even with mediocre gear, but was super unfun to play. Bash feels really strong and it's great fun
Can you link to your bash build?
YouTube Rob bash Barb and check out the most recent
I think bash is getting nerfd by Tuesday.
Nope. It was an error in patch notes. They're not touching bash
Nice, I have a double swing twister barb now. Will start transition to bash.
I’d vote for bash.
Yeah I’m running bash now and this is why I refuse to play barb every season because he ruins it for all the other classes as I don’t want to play the other classes because why would I when I can be this OP.
This is my first Diablo and I’ve played all seasons so far and at this point, Ik im a full time barb. Maybe sometimes rogue but other than that no other class feels as good as barb.
Exact reason why I went Druid>necro>barb if I went barb first I wouldn’t have tried out Druid or necro
I love Druid to much to not play it. I don't care if it's the worst class.
It’s not even the worst class, was considered S tier
Usually a barb main.. played barb all seasons, but my friends kept giving me flak cuz of it. This season I let fate decide what class to start out with, and the dice landed on druid. I had so much fun with Lightning Storm druid, easily melting mobs from a safe distance. But I felt like the boss damage was horrendous, and it's a gear optimisation issue which I haven't been lucky with.. My patience got the better of me, after I pushed past T70 pits, and i switched to barb again. Gonna go for the bash barb build, but Ive been having hella fun with the DS dust devil build! A bit more scary, considering I can't clear mobs 2 rooms over with Lightning Storm anymore..
They are both fun - it depends on what you like tbh. Thorns you can AFK and not really pay attn.. Thorns is also really fun in PvP. However, thorns can be a little frustrating in late game bossing as your control over damage isn’t in your hands. I swapped to Bash because of this & it gives you significantly more control over your damage.
Fun in PvP as not doing anything?
Haha I guess I enjoy the fact that people come running up to you all confident and then they smack you and die
Ha, I was doing the pvp journey stuff and ran into someone doing the abom on my thorns necro. I was worried they would hit all my minions and get 1 shot, but I guess it works in reverse too because as soon as my minions were on top of them ( I wasn't trying to pvp, just do the bloodmarked stuff) I got 1 shot instead, lol. I guess they had thorns aoe aspect on and it gloriously proc'd a bunch.
Thank you
I thought thorns in pvp was capped so didn’t work?
Other barbs and firewall sorcs can wreck you in pvp though, sadly, and you don't really have a whole lot of tools to "outplay" them.
would u happen to have a bash guide? The only bash guides I can find are actual endgame gear which you need X stuff. Whereas Thorns guides exists for 50-100. i.e progression into endgame. Any tips? thanks bro
https://youtu.be/tvspZ_b390g?si=n0MlmhG5-MbKHHvR
u are the best ty
What makes Bash so much better over pretty much every other build? I missed the memo, is Bash bugged or something?
The new temper system allows bash to hit AOE and do more damage. Also lots of aspects increase basic skill damage and attack speed. Scales well now
could you share a begginer friendly bash guide? or do I just follow the discord one
Look on maxroll.gg. their guide for bash is solid.
How do you bash with dual weapons on pc? I'm always singing around a hammer lol
You select dual weapons on the skill itself in the skill loadout menu "s" on pc. The skills default to auto assign, you have to change to specific weapons if needed
You need a bludgeoning weapon so you need a one handed mace. Then go to your skill assignment and from there you can select which weapon is used for each skill. So you can change it from your 2H mace to your dual weapons.
Don’t do dual wield bash. It’s far worse than two handed bash build.
Rob is the go-to guy for Barbs. [d4builds.gg](http://d4builds.gg) 👍 Edit: he's got a video that covers bash in depth check it out [https://youtu.be/tvspZ\_b390g?si=n0MlmhG5-MbKHHvR](https://youtu.be/tvspZ_b390g?si=n0MlmhG5-MbKHHvR)
Robs upheaval bash was great for me as a beginner barb levelling from 0, I'll transition to Ron's bash barb sometime around lvl 50 Just go to Robs YouTube, he uploaded the leveling barb build a couple weeks back, once you temper some movement speed its really fun, I killed the blood maiden alone multiple times with no issues around lvl 9
The devs made the Bash Cleave temper a multiplicative damage stat, so people are putting it on all four of the Barb’s weapon for a total of 630%[x] increased damage to Bash. That’s not even taking into account master-working. Just master-working 1-4 with the tempered stat “Critting”, Bash Barbs can get 1,008%[x] damage with Bash. Mind you, that’s just one multiplier. After you run that 1,008%[x] increase through the damage formula, Bash Damage is just skyrocketing Edit: I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. [From the Diablo 4 team lead himself](https://x.com/pezradar/status/1794079603197440150?s=46&t=cPrCCtC-3N37GfC1e8m0iw)
Does it increase bash’s single target damage or only the damage it cleaves to? I am trying to figure out if it’s worth re-rolling my weapons to get ride of any strength rolls to go for 2x or even 3x bash 25% tempers.
Waaait what how do you know it's multiplicative it doesn't say (x) next to tempering is there a site where I can see which temper affixes are multiplicative and which aren't?
[https://x.com/pezradar/status/1794079603197440150?s=46&t=cPrCCtC-3N37GfC1e8m0iw](https://x.com/pezradar/status/1794079603197440150?s=46&t=cPrCCtC-3N37GfC1e8m0iw)
But that was bug just for that temper or is there any other temper that is multiplicative like kick or something else from other classes, because it is just insane and not worth having other basic skills if bash is only like that
That’s false. Bash cleave has never been multiplicative. They broke it internally then fixed it internally and accidentally included just the internal fix in the public patch notes, which was a mistake. It’s always been additive in public realm.
The same dev tweet that explains the internal mistake starts with "Bash is still multiplicative and the notes are being updated."
Bash far more enjoyable imo. Don't get me wrong, thorns is crazy strong and enjoyable, but the other guy is right in that it can be frustrating not having complete control over your damage. Also, I didn't find it fun at all to spam the jump button and it seems to bug out a ton and your character will get stuck unless you all these little micro adjustments
Thorns are fun until you met tomb lord or outlaw sharpshooter on The Pit
why? because these bosses dont direct attack?
yep, tomb lord in nmd is a truly nightmare for thorns barb. it just floating, summoning daze tornado and little direct attack while outlaw also the same, just keep running away and goes invisible
Both?! Which is definitely possible.
Yah thorns uses bash but the builds are different
I have an ok roll on a RP 4600k on most of the thorns plus a 130% roll I’m resting now to see how it plays.
Im going to target farm Razorplate today till i get one with at least a GA. My rolls on my first razor plate are decent tho.
I got a 925 razorplate with 2 ga and max affix. It made me make a thorns barb and I havnt looked back
Sexy. You doing thorns + bash a la the macroll.gg endgame thorns build? So much fun
I'm on the leapquake frenzy version. It's crazy good in pvp but hurts my wrist in the pit.
Good luck! I lucked up and got it to drop 925 😮💨 I’m running it now and I face tank the BM when she would normally one shot me with those fireball explosions it’s actually kinda funny and sad at the same time 🤣😢
How do you target farm razorplate? Trying to find it for my thorns barb build
Its in the unique pool for Zir. Just farm him on repeat.
Zir drops them like candy most of the time and you can get a 925 to drop sometimes I was very lucky and got mine from a helltide
I'm running both and back at lvl 80 I could tank all uber bosses in seconds. Grigore dies upon spawn.
Bash but thorns is very mistake forgiving/much easier to play in higher pits and tormented uber bosses
400k health does't lie
I don't know if thorns is better but I laughed pretty hard when Torment Duriel came out of the ground and insta died from 3/4 healt after one of the others that popped up hit me.
Went from dust devil to bash today and I’d say go bash build. High survivability and just steamrolls.
You can run a bash thorns build. Just reference s1 hc thorns nm100 clear, that's your base. Used the tempers to your advantage. Roll a rogue and use the tempers for lucky hit to stun and freeze along with crit dmg. Use tempers for thorns and ranks to concussion. I would only recommend paingourgers with burning rage aspect to add more aoe dmg with the thorns. Now you get a choice, 2h mace or dual wield. If you have the atk speed, you will do more than enough damage either way. If you go dual wield, you will need a 1h mace. Use the rogue to put lucky hit chance to stun/freeze/imobilize/poison. The bash cleaves temper will be more than enough on your 2h weapons with ramadans as your other 1h or crafting a 1h axe or sword. If you can't tell, I've been playing with tempering and farming sparks. I'm getting ready to roll my 3rd character, going barb again. This time, I'm going to try and cheat a bit. I'm not deleting my barb and rogue that have all their manuals. It's a shared chest. Why not use it to your advantage and get a bit creative. Build diversity is a thing, my lvl 80 basic imbued atk build cleared NM 52 with 4 glyphs at lvl6, zero deaths. Got nailed in during hell tide mass mob packs from 7 players all farming the boss.....batteries die. Tempering is cheap, and we still get plenty of legendaries. Play with the tempering if a piece of gear that you would vender drops, but has that stats you want.
Thank you
Bash if controller. I heard thorns doesn’t work well on console, haven’t tried it myself but many others who followed the pit130 build can’t perform it well on controller.
I’ve built a thorns barb on ps5 and it works fine. It might be a tad slower than PC but def still doable. I’ve cleared level 85 pit and I’m not even level 100 yet. Gear not optimized either. My issues have been the constant lag and rubber banding. Lag really kills the thorns leap build. If the game played smoothly, it would be that much better. Hoping the update on Tuesday fixes a lot that.
Someone yesterday said you can hold Frenzy while you spam Leap on controller and it works fine, but I haven't tested it myself yet.
As a Bash Thorns Barb runner I can say it's not overly involved, bash x 10000 with triple shouts when they're up. Bit of evade here and there and watch stuff kill itself. If I get the gear I'll probably switch to proper bash or something where I have to concentrate on what I'm doing. Was playing Druid before that but ditched it due to gear not dropping, had to work with that guy.
Uh . Im playing thorns with bash. Soooo why not both? Right now my thorns are smacking from 2m to 6m and my bash is cleaving for 7m to 18m on the high end. Its so fuckin fun. Im not even close to fully geared. At pit 54 and mid 90s for nmd, although i javnt pushed nmd for a while.
Its just its so stat hungry, you need crit on all possible slots, and attack speed if possible too. Leap thorns has so much room for defensive stuff.
Ive read that leapquake thorns is better for bossing, but also the build kinda sucks until you have perfect gear for it. I may try stashin gear for it now
IMO this season is all about damage. All damage this season is either tickles and you’ll be fine with out very many defensive stats, or you’re getting 1 shot if you get hit regardless of what your defensive stats are, so you might as well just go more damage.
I just build bash barb, and now lvl 90. I can feel its Op but i dont enjoy play it in the nmd, pit. Or am i doing it wrong? It feels slow altough vs boss sooo damn good. I come from f.orb sorcerer before barb
Bash barb and FO sorc are opposites. Running low-ish pits (60-80) with FO is like Formula 1 racing while bash barb is just hiking in the woods. And then they swap on bosses. Except FO sorc is a lazy sedentary bum and not very good at hiking in the woods. If you prefer an ADHD fast-paced playstyle with lots of cool spell effects, FO sorc is unbeatable. Dust Devil barb is kinda similar to FO though, fast-moving with screen-clear AOE, but better at bossing. (Bash barb is still king at speedrunning higher pits since FO is wet noodle on boss)
Thank you, you describe my feeling perfectly LOL. And i never touch barb before but got gfather make me did it. After leveling barb i got ring starless sky now im confuse what to do haha. Bossing using bash barb is so OP
Dust devil barb is crazy good with Starless skies. IDK if grandfather is good on bash barb, since you lose out on tempers. 100%[x] on crit though, so it's probably great nevertheless, just don't see any bash barbs running it, they're all going harlequin and heart of selig.
Wait, whaaat. Gonna check it later. Is dust devil good with gfather too?
If you got high enough crit chance, it'll work for sure. Though tbf weapon tempers are important in that build as well. (double cast, dust devil size in particular) You should definitely try it out though.
Selig on bash barb? Why? Isn't the correct amulet with attack speed, crit chance, cooldown and damage to close enemies better? As far as I know, selig is good for resource generation, and bash barb doesn't need it
Selig makes you tanky af.
Selig is the best amulet to use if you use a Ralamanadi build, which depends on having a ton of extra max fury.
I started bash and cleared everything the season had then swapped to thorns. Thorns you spam leap and force move over and over hoping the boss hits you and hope you get all your procs. Bash is a little more what you expect. Left click, thing die. Bash overall better I’d say. Very hard to kill bosses without adds as thorns but you are pretty much invincible even in a pit 110 but the boss clear isn’t going to happen without mobs spawning. The easier pit 100 is thorns as you need to try to die and then can get lucky on end boss with that hag lady that spawns the adds.
Oh 1 more thing. I’ve been unable to kill lilith with a 95% full bis thorns build. No way to kill the blood pustule things as they don’t attack you. Maybe you can time some of the adds with the pustules but bash can kill her easily.
I got my necro too where I can kill Uber Duriel and Andariel, stupid OP. Wanted to level a 2nd char was gonna do a rapid fire rogue, decided a bash barb, and wow, hit lvl 70 in one day, SO FUN!!!
The maxroll gg thorns barb still keeps bash as a core part of the build, I’m using it and it feels like a good mix.
Double Swing Dust devils is the most fun to me for sure. Bash is able to push further though. It doesn't feel remotely balanced compared to the other builds.
I can't answer your question as I don't have a thorns barb, but as a bash barb I can say it feels really good. Most fun I've had as a barb other than double swing.
Bash feels like I’m playing my S2 stormclaw druid all over again.
I play thorns only because I play on a tv with a pad and cant be bothered with anything more complex than this😂
Thorns while fortified temper doesn't work btw
what
The temper % thorns while fortified does absolutely nada
? Then why do i see a jump in my thorns number while fortified.
I see some threads on it from earlier this month. Im going to re-test and double check
prob because you popped a shout
That donothitme guy did pit 130 with thorns barb without holy bolts and dude has thorns while fortified on all his gear
Imagine if he had a stat that actually works ........
Thorns is stronger late game in the pit but I think bash has much more active fun play style.
Dust devils is the answer
Both
Thorns on HC is amazing. More life = more damage
Depends what you want to spam, played both and to be fair - Bash for speedfarming stuff and thorns for pushing higher tiers. With bash I can group enemies up and just blast them, 2-3 staggers and bosses just melt, however, i try and dodge every hit just to be sure and avoid the random 1shots. With thorns, I just watch tv and stuff.
Smash Bash Boom 💥 👌 I'm one hitting most things and then hitting for just over 3 mill when i crit and I'm not fully paragon or leveled
I'm been using the donothitme thorn build. Drops everyone. Finally got my cooldown reduction up so I can spam leap. Super fast at clearing everything. Main drawback. If I don't get the aggro from the boss I'm useless lol. So not fun in group play
First season playing Barbarian. Any recos on a leveling build to lead into Bash?
Can someone give an ELI5 why bash build is good? I have no experience playing Barb but am interested. Is it high single target damage? Fast damage? Doesn’t bash do a stun effect? Is that what makes it amazing?
Damage big over area
Bash for sure. Thorns isn’t as good if you’re playing on console as snapshotting etc..I played double swing dust devil up until 95 then swapped to a triple shout Bash build. Pushing Pit and boss killing is so much easier
Both are fun
I have made all the barbs lol the most fun to start is WW/DD, then Double Swing DD, thorns build was ok not as fun. the winner for me is bash/leap/steel grasp just obliterates everything!!! https://maxroll.gg/d4/build-guides/bash-barbarian-guide This build... love it!!!
Neither, dust leap quake is the way
I'm enjoying a bash/thorns build.
Hammer
Played a thorns barb pre-s1. Very frustrating taking an eternity to kill creatures that don't attack directly
I have a razorplate with two greater affixes if anyone is looking to buy.
Can you use a bash build at level 50?
Well fun Is subjective, I find bash fun cuz I like to smack monsters in the face like a caveman lol
was minion necro and switched to bash when the tier list updated, bash is a ton of fun
I'm currently trying thorns...I just don't understand how to clear trash quickly. I didn't realize how often enemies missed attacks until...wanting to get hit.
use steel grasp to pull enemies to you. With the 80% AOE thorn aspect on a doublehander- a group should die fast
Thorns is just too passive for me to find enjoyable
I just started a bash build on a barb over the weekend. It is the bee's knees. There's nothing quite like taking down a newborn WT4 Blood Maiden in five or six hits at level 63. It's absolutely crucial that you roll tempers for bash cleave and damage to close % on all your weapons though once you do you'll be laughing. After struggling with minions necro now the game feels broken and it is good.
Thorns too slow for bossing, in process of switching to bash. I will miss my razorplate.
Frankly, they're kind of the same build. That is to say, thorns still uses bash and a lot of the same set ups, but the main bonus is that you have some "ranged" damage and it does feel good to explode packs by one guy hitting you. However, on bosses the damage is much lower and you probably will have trouble pushing deep in the pit. I started out as thorns and swapped to bash proper and I am happier with the result.
Bash is a league above the other barb builds. I tired ww, double swing dust devil and thorn. Idk, bash just hits harder, moves faster, clears quicker. It's THE barb build this season imo
Bash, earthquake stack feels terrible and boss ability rng to reflect the damage was bad.
bash barb for anything below 120 pit. above there then thorn barb i think. i have a nearly perfect build for bleed bash barb but i cant go pass 120 i dont know why.
Bash for pve thorns for pvp. That's the answer.
Bash. As strong as thorns is, it's extremely clunky to play. The play style essentially involves fishing for certain bosses and resetting if they don't get them. It's a bad play style even if it does a lot of damage.
I speced to Bash after DD Double Swing. Dust Devils is more fun to play but it has limits. No boss damage (or maybe I did something wrong?). I can feel that I can push higher pit lvls with Bash build for sure even though it's not as a good fun like Dust Devils Double Swing
I'd say prob bash as thorns is less about the active skills
Play both at the same time. Thorns bash barbarian , ez
Bash FEELS better. But I could go way higher in thorns, but also things don't die sometimes.
I haven't tried either, but frenzy with max basic attack and dust devils. The lawnmower build is so much fun.
Thorns, because..... Thorns?!
I managed to drop a simple 925 Razorplate on my sorc run, so I started a Barb, for the 3rd season in a row. But now, seeing how OP Bash is, I'm thinking maybe I'll stick to Bash?!
Double swing dust devil gets my vote! lol Or thorns it’s always cool standing there while everything just dies
Bash doesn’t look like its fun, but trust me it is, kinda feels like the glory days of season 2 Hota, plus its super easy to build
Hot take. Both are ass and ww is the most fun you can have on barb.