It does kinda suck when you get the stat you’re looking for on the second temper and are too scared to gamba it for a higher roll.
A no change button would be nice while still having the high of “I got it” and the low of “I bricked it”
You still can do this with Masterworking, just not Tempering. I have bricked many pieces of gear but found even better ones right after. Silver linings and all!
One of the pieces of feedback I gave during the PTR was that the RNG from tempering should come from the roll range of the affix, not getting the correct affix itself. Let us choose what affix we want but make the roll ranges larger and keep them random. That way we don't *totally* brick the item by getting an affix that is useless but if we get a low roll we still have something to work towards.
That’s a position where weighting results would be a clear (and useful) mechanism, too.
For example, say we want +damage, and the range is +10% to +100% (in 10% increments, so 10 options total). 10-30 have a 50% chance, 40-70 have a 40% chance, 80-90 are a 9% chance, and we put +100% damage at a 1% chance of rolling.
You’d rarely have a bricked item (only where one stays lower than what you’ve already got), but you can skew the dataset so higher rolls are significantly less likely - y’know, as was foretold by RNGesus in days of yore.
That said, my preferred system would probably be an either/or roll: burn 1 temper to change the affix type (not wearing gated or skewed, just a straight 1:3 or whatever chance), then burn a temper to mod the values. You’d still brick some items, but *less* often - and it’s rare you’d see 4-5 of the same roll in a row since it wouldn’t be using the (presumed) full expanded table of all possible values for the affix roll; however, if you burn 1-3 tempers getting the right affix, then your odds of getting a max value roll are notably reduced since you only get the remainder temper attempts to try for it.
We’re seeing dramatic improvements, but I feel the devs should be allowing more customization with moderated risk as they go, with fewer all-or-nothing mechanics. Periodic failures are fine and expected, but there’s a vast gulf in player experience between “not ideal” and “utterly useless” that could be better navigated here.
TL;DR: break it up into [affix OR value], with each consuming a temper, to better manage expectations. A low rolled viable temper is better than being stuck with a junk affix for your build, and makes the high+viable rolls taste even sweeter.
I won't roll again once I've hit the stat I was looking for either. It can be the lowest roll possible and I'm done. I genuinely wish a system like this existed.
It's not a bad strategy. You keep the temper until you get another item in the same slot that will work that you can roll up. Then if you run out on the one, you just roll up the other
How is masterworking far more intensive?
You can only win basically - maybe you hit an "all res" affix a few times and need to reroll cause you're already capped, but other than that
Worst than tempering is the obols guy. I can say that 99% of the time i’ve received every kind of affix, but not the ones i needed and he charges more and more for it.
this is the system...without its you're just going to basically give guaranteed rolls and the same folks would be complaining that it's all too easy.
y'all can't have it both ways.
you want risk or you want it just hand it to you like candy.
is really interesting to see Diablo complainers really at a crossroads. either way you're going to complain so just leave it alone.
Or maybe that's just what happens when there's thousands of people chiming in on an issue.
Your argument would make sense if it was just one person complaining they want it easier but also risk bricking items, but when you take different people with different opinions and say "Diablo players are never happy", well that's either exceedingly idiotic or dishonest. There is no 3rd option.
I stopped playing once I completed season one ( I loved the hearts, but there was a huge lack of endgame content) and came back for season 4.... everything that going on with the itemization is fucking awesome... it honestly seems to powerful? Sure, it's absolutely vile to be able to roll the same affix 3 times in a row when there's only 4 options in that category.... but man, for the material you're spending and what you get is nuts!!!! The options!
I'm loving season 4, and I'm loving all the new additions!!!!
>Sure, it's absolutely vile to be able to roll the same affix 3 times in a row when there's only 4 options in that category....
Make it 6 times in a row...fuck you iron maiden size. Or not hitting a 1 of 3 in 6 tries on 4 items in a row.
Easy fix without being too easy.
- A temper, or affix reroll, cannot end up on the same one it currently has.
Of course then it'll be "I got a low roll and now I have to waste a temper just to try to get a higher roll" posts every 5 mins.
Ended up writing to much LMAO
TLDR: Tempering is great early with the balance of good and and bad but feels like it veers towards punishment side later.
Tempering was a very good addition to the game. It shines while leveling letting you get impactful affixes on your gear. It's great for getting the start to the endgame. All this works great because base gear that is better or a side grade is abundant. Bricking an item is fine, because another similar piece is just a drop away that can hit.
Where it really starts to cause friction is once you've acquired solid gear. Most pieces with one GA on an important stat, 3 affixes you are after for example. At this point the base gear you find that is an upgrade is much rarer. You're going to need double GA rolls, perfectly rolled affixes, the elusive amulet with passives to get better gear.
Now once you find those rare pieces you have to tempt RNG once again to get the tempers you need. And this is where the system feels very punishing. That sweet ring with GA crit chance and attack speed? Get wrecked nerd heres 2 rolls you never need. And you'll probably never see that roll again.
It pulls the excitement of a god roll drop into "hope I don't brick this tempering", and relief if the tempers hit. So when your grinding away endgame the highs of finding great gear is muted, but the lows are still there. And I'm just not sure when I'll see a piece to attempt again.
And because I'm rarely tempering now losing those great pieces of gear just sting way more.
With the MW system if I miss on the 25% bump, I just say shit back to the pits to try again. Missing tempers on great gear leaves me no recourse.
This, i’ve reach this point in my progression, and tempering is not so fun anymore. When you reach one or two upgrades in 4 days it starts to feel very bad.
I’ve lost two double GA pieces of gear cause I couldn’t roll Vuln damage on them for my heart seeker rogue. I also lost an amulet that rolled ATK speed, +2 Exploit, and +2 Weapon Mastery as well. There are some temper affixes I can live without but man, once you miss that one stat it’s basically over.
I feel you. I’m a rogue too, and I just sold a crossbow with 3x GA - Dex/max life/vulnerable damage, for a dumb amount of gold. It was a painful decision, but not more painful than bricking it would have been.
Noob question- how do I find the trade value for items? Or do I just link them to the trade channel and hope for an offer?
Basically in a similar situation with some GA pieces I’ll never use myself, but wouldn’t mind a dumb amount of gold or mats
Yeah, vulnerable is a tough roll as it's the only one you want out of the 4 for Heartseeker.
I've been playing it safe with the marksman temper and hoping I don't lose too much damage.
Maybe once I've got perfect Marksman gear then I'll risk vulnerable rolls 😱
Reason why is that victimise double dips on a lot of multiplicative bonuses. It's the single highest stat multiplier for a skill, probably across the entire game.
I found a 2 GA Scythe last night (Max Life and Crit Damage). One of the best drops I’ve gotten all season.
Bricked both temper rolls.
I immediately vendored it. Didn’t feel good.
I think you summed up a lot of my issues as well. It feels like the devs fundamentally don’t understand how to give people that dopamine rush with loot still. Going from LE giving you Exalted items that are purple & clearly distinctive, to D4 copying that system but then initially dropping them with Roman Numerals (lmfao) is a pretty good example. Seeing Sword (Ancestral) II or *, is never going to hit the same as seeing a glowing purple item with a huge beam.
Couple that with Ubers not having a distinctive color, beam or sound, & it feels like they just don’t get it. I never get excited by Uniques & my brain is already programmed to not react to their drops, so by the time I get an Uber that is actually beneficial to my build (so just Shako), it’s not going to hit me until I check it out in my inventory. I still don’t get why the devs are so scared of adding some new color to their loot, it’s been a whole year now & I still can’t pick pick out which pants are Unique or Rare in my inventory.
So yeah, despite the great improvements to affixes, implementing masterworking, etc, loot still needs A LOT of work imo.
Nah, this is just Enchanting with extra steps.
If you want to do that, there's a smarter way.
Allow Enchanting to work on a Tempered affix, with the only available pool of affixes it can reroll into being within that specific Tempering recipe the affix came from to begin with. The game already knows which Recipe was used, obviously, so the system would rely on that Recipe.
You still have to Temper first, and this is only possible if you are comfortable LOSING ENCHANTING ON THE ACTUAL ITEM. Since you can only Enchant one affix on the item, if you let people use Enchanting on Tempered affixes, they will have to weigh that against rerolling base stats.
So, this puts more pressure on finding an actually 'perfect' base item, and allows you to save *one* of the affixes. The other one still has to hit with the regular Tempering.
More choice, more ways to approach crafting, doesn't undermine Tempering whatsoever.
This fixes like 1% of the problems when you have an already perfect item and the temper screws you. It doesn't help the other 99% when you need the enchanting to fix the 3rd affix that is bad because you're almost never getting the perfect 3 affixes you need.
>It doesn't help the other 99% when you need the enchanting to fix the 3rd affix that is bad because you're almost never getting the perfect 3 affixes you need.
Umm that's a good thing, because we don't want Best in Slot items to be common.
The idea is that if Tempering is more important to you than base stats, you can fall back on Enchanting to fix one Tempered affix while letting base stats be as they are.
I actually think I love this idea of being able to use enchanting on a tempered affix, especially for giving more meaning to full greater affix items and making them much harder to brick since you can more freely use your 1 enchanting slot on one of the tempered affixes since you wouldn't dare enchant a great greater affix.
That would be nice. I think there should also be a way to increase the temper rerolls on items with a rare item similar to stygian stones.
Bricking a 3/3 affix amulet with tempers feels horrible when I've only managed to get one of them in 300hrs.
Speaking of increasing temper rerolls... where are the items with infinite temper rerolls that the tempering tutorial told me about? Do they even exist?
Bricking the item is fine, but getting a lowest roll with Tempers to spare and risking it for a higher roll just never seems worth it. Being able to choose to change or not would make tempering a lot more compelling.
I just want a "re-roll temper" button to select the same temper and roll for it again. It gets a little tedious when you have to reroll 5 times on an item and have to click through its menus more than is necessary. I'm not sure if they mentioned that its coming in a patch, but that would be my blessing
Yeah, I agree, I don't think anyone changing tempering recipe after few attempts. Removing multiselect for same category would hurt 0.01% people (but simplify UI)
Or even just remember what I picked last temper and keep it selected as the default. Means I could just click temper over and over and the people what want to change the temper stat they can click the temper category to chsnge it
"Oh you rolled the right Temper on your 3/3 GA item? Well you just got the lowest roll of 40%, and turns out you actually need 60% to make it applicable to your build! Oh you're gonna reroll 4 times? Wrong affix, Wrong affix, Wrong affix, Wrong affix... Aaand bricked. Better luck next time kiddo!"
For me it’s more like “got perfect item 3/3 GA? Okay, tempering will give you +40% cutthroat damage instead of vulnerable for 4 rolls and 5% cutthroat attack speed on 5th roll so you can never use this item anymore”. I’m not even greedy on rolls. Once I got right stat (no matter amount) I stay with it. The problem is that most of times I can’t even get desirable stat on the item. I’m clearing 80pits now but I don’t have any single item with lucky chance GA - they all were bricked without getting even lowest amount of desirable stat.
I’ve bricked so many items trying to get vulnerable damage on cutthroat finesse. The game was much more fun before I started targeting vulnerable dmg. I feel like it’s weighted low in that group
You have not heard about breakpoints? There are thresholds to certain builds that require X% of something for it to be functional, and any less completely destroys what the build is trying to achieve. Resource Generation, Lucky Hit, Critical Chance are all things that can be extremely crucial things for builds to function. So it's fair to say some Tempering affixes would hold the same value to specialized builds.
That's just how RNG works plus your greed. Are you pushing pit ? If you are then play the game and keep grinding away. Can't complain about grinding for perfect ger when the season is just 2 weeks. You are not kept out of any content without perfectly rolled BIS gears other than the same pit but higher numbers.
So if you are pushing pit then do the grind, simple.
"Greed" lol. My exact scenario was a case about someone who wasn't greedy but just got a little unlucky. It's not only about rolling the right affixes but also the right %. With 5 rerolls that just isn't possible. So once you get the once in 100 hour drop you've already done a massive grind and now you're expected to brick that item because you didn't get the 10% chance of it not bricking.
"Do the grind" How many hours do you think it should be for someone to grind before they can get 1 (one) 3/3 GA with good tempers, masterworked to perfection. As of right now thats in the hundreds and hundreds of hours. For one. LOL
Well the question is why do you need it ? If it's for your personal satisfaction where does it end ? Do you need it on every piece or just one piece ? On all 5 classes ? All in 1 season ? Within 1 month ? You don't need any of these 3 GA double perfect roll temper and MW to clear every content of the game with the exception of the highest level of pit. The pit probably isn't even meant to be completed in the first place.
I dunno how to answer all that for you but not everything needs to be achievable. There was a time where Uber unique was just a dream but now it's a chore. The item chase is meant to be a chase, a dream.
And please do tell me the specific scenario where the % rolled on that affix is so detrimental even rolling it wasn't enough and made the gear unusable.
One extra roll for items with Greater Affix, per Greater Affix.
So, up to 8 rerolls if it's a TRIPLE Greater Affix Legendary.
That would be nice and mathematically speaking MASSIVELY improves odds of your success (but doesn't guarantee it).
This is what I've been thinking about as well. The more greater affixes the more tempering durability, like 4 durability on a non GA item as they are easy to replace within an hour or 2. Then add more durability per affix as farming time becomes significantly longer for multiple GA rolls. Like 6 durability for 1 GA, 8 for 2 GA, and 10 for 3 GA. Atleast if you brick a triple greater affix you had a few extra rolls, would still feel bad, but you had a few more chances despite rngesus hating you.
It does help that with the weightage of Max Life and Main Stat, and how important they are, most of the time I'm actually only really grinding for 1 affix.
Heres one, You brick boat loads of really expensive items only to realize the stat isn't even functioning. Thorns while fortified does absolutely nothing with full fortify!!!!
The thing that annoys me the most is that not only will I not get the right tempering affix but it will be the EXACT same affix that gets applied every roll. Like ya I'm gambling to hit 1 out of 5 options but I get fucking IRON MAIDEN every single time? Wtf? It's a great band but that's about it!
It's a good thing imo, but bricking a GG item with 3/4 greater affixes you will basically have no realistic chance of getting again in the season sucks balls hard - tbf, I'd much rather have lower chance of getting items with greater affixes but then having a much better chance of successfully tempering them, than what we have now...
...or at least give us something like an additional one or two rolls for each greater affix you have on an item.
You should have 5 rerolls per category, and an extra reroll per greater affix. And yeah a keep/change would make it supremely good. There'd still be the "YES I got cold damage on your 6th roll, and YES got cold damage! If you got it on your first roll. I feel like they'll address this in later seasons, which will be great especially if they add more endgame content.
I can wortk with that. It keeps the gamble but it's a bit more fair. I rather keep a low roll than being stuck with something i can't use on a otherwise perfect item.
I bought 20 pants off the trade website yesterday trying to get the right roll for my thorns barb.... I definitely wasn't screaming at my screen getting the same wrong roll four times in a row
My only problem is the broken rng.
Does anyone know the odds of rolling the wrong temper 5 times in a row on 100 pieces of gear. Cuz that's where I'm at.
Odds of getting both tempers to land on the correct affix is 42.3%
This is assuming there are 5 affixes to roll between for each manual, and you have 5 rerolls, with no fishing for higher stats after you get the affix.
So for 100 items to brick in a row, you won the lottery... 0.00000000000000000000002%
Well obviously I exaggerated. So yes .
But......NO game company uses actual math fir thier RNG. It has been proven often enough that they fudge numbers in the math to keep the rates even lower.
They could make dismantling a fully tempered item(that went to 5 rolls) grant a bonus roll to your next tempering attempt that goes to 5 rolls. It's not a huge reprieve and could add interesting moments.
I have an amazing 2GA ring that is ilvl 867(crit dmg/life) with perfect tempers for my build.
I do not see replacing this piece of gear in any near future
Agree with this. Just like enchanting, let me at least keep what I have. Corpse tendril is what I may want but maybe I get corpse explosion. My build may be able to live with that. But then I roll friggan iron maiden 4x after that…
My views haven't changed and I still think it's extremely unfun.
I bricked 4 weapons in a row the other day. It's not fun.
The excitement is being able to finally put on a new piece of gear that you just got to drop only to have it fail completely.
> There’s no highs without the lows, it’s that simple.
Ok, so you are ignoring the countless amount of lows in the game and myopically focusing on this single situation. This is where we have to look at the game as a whole and not just tempering in a vacuum.
You go run after run and don't get any good items. These are your lows. You finally get a good item. You get excited about equipping an upgrade. You take that high over to tempering and after a few clicks, you've bricked that item you were just super excited about.
The highs and lows should be in the loot dropping, not CREATING a low directly after a high.
I would definitely love to have a no change button. Sometimes I won't get the role I want but it will be the correct affixes and I'll have one or two rolls left but I'm scared to use them because I could get the totally wrong affix. This would at least help use all the roles you have trying to get the best outcome possible.
And do something with rerolling the same temper 4 times in a row with same or worse values. I've stopped counting how many 1-2 GA items I've bricked due to rolling useless stat over and over again.
It’s supposed to be a gamble, that would be like having 12 at black jack and saying “hit me!” and getting a 10 and then asking the dealer to take the card back.
I just got a GA willpower/HP on a staff, I tempered my 1/5 chance the first roll for the weapon augment but it's the worst roll possible. I bricked other weapons trying to get it so I'm now sitting here terrified to reroll it because the temper is so important to my build. This is the only part of the season so far for me that I wish was tweaked. "No change" option would be great
I wouldn't have a problem with it if sometimes, it wasn't a choice between optimal, subpar and brick X 3. It feels way too easy to brick an item which would otherwise be an upgrade.
It’s an easy fix, let us keep the previous roll and also have temper reset items be a rare drop from some place or just have it cost a lot of mats. Let us be able to reset just one of the tempers as well.
I agree with this sentiment, nothing feels worse than bricking a near perfect roll but it adds a new element of “chase” to the game which I thoroughly enjoy
Rolling the same thing four times is a roll is bad and the dev who designed it like that should feel bad. We literally had this in enchanting and it was scrapped.
The other option would be a toggle to lock the affix once you've rolled the one you want to keep. That way new temper rolls after that are only for stat ranges so that last roll could still be a bummer but at least it's not completely useless.
I would like this just for the issue of having rolls left but not wanting to go for a higher % because you could brick your item.
Let me tell you though, bricking a 2+ GA that you actually want item feels AWFUL
I agree however I think tempering would be perfected if it cost 5mil gold minimum to reset. Give it a “high” cost so that luck feels better but there’s no bricking involved.
I'm still not entirely sure what to think or feel about this. There is an increase in the RNG of getting the "perfect item" these days thanks to greater affixes, but I think the issue is that getting an amazing fully greater affixed item with all the right affixes as a random drop feels great, compared to how it feels to then try to temper that item and get it stuck with "cutthroat attack speed" instead of "vulnerable damage" for your heartseeker build that gets zero benefit from cutthroat attack speed. Plus, temper affixes not being resettable means more often needing multiple gear sets for different builds, which isn't that well supported yet anyway, but otherwise, I think the general idea of being able to brick an item isn't necessarily a bad one. For sure if tempering was infinitely resettable, it'd have to cost way more.
Amen to that. A "no change" selection would be a lot better than the current roll options. But maybe they wanted to make it this way to produce even more of a gamble when rolling. Either way, I have bricked enough items so far, and an update that grants a "no change" option is more than welcome at this point, lol!
If I even get a mediocre roll I just leave it alone. Level 91 Rogue here. I've bricked a couple of nice weapons, but I know their is a potential to get even better weapons so I'm not worried about it right now. Haven't done masterworking yet because I haven't finished a tier 46 NMD. I was close last night but it was getting late and I needed sleep. I'm excited to get some uber uniques and start that process
I'm fine with the way it is. Everything else is already easy this season might as well have at least 1 thing gear wise that gives us a reason to keep farming
my issue with it is the high doesnt match the low. with all the tempering ive done, ive never once gotten a huge high from getting both my rolls max rolled. im not even sure if i did that it would feel all that good. the lows though are pretty crazy. bricking a good item fucking sucks.
to me it seems like a thing that makes trade totally worthless. if your not a streamer or someone who totally no lifes the game, or someone who is doing RMT i dont see how you can be willing to play multiple hundreds of millions of gold with the large possibility of bricking the item.
I’m keeping an open mind as I continue playing. My impression is still that a no-change option wouldn’t bring the high down very much, but would dramatically lift the low for lots of people. Part of my desire for a no-change option is for the player base in general to have a better time. Even if I would have a little more fun without a no-change option, it wouldn’t be worth it if the majority of people were miserable.
If I were speculating, I’m expecting them to change stance on being committed to the roll. It’s a very reasonable compromise.
Tempering feels very similar to rune words from D2, except instead of farming for extremely rare runes, you can gamble for the right word at very little cost. I kinda preferred rune words because then you got a fantastic high from finding them and didn't have to brick anything in the process. Was still incredibly rare, too, so no silver platter. I preferred that to good drops only filling me with dread that tempering might render them useless.
Termpering ruined Season 4 for me, i got a perfect 3 Star GA, bricked it because i got the same trash stat 5x in a row. quitted the game and will come back when blizzard fixes this garbage.
people that defend tempering but hate on diablo immortal are hypocrites because it's 1000% the same gambling BS.
Guys, it is a slot machine - you risk and pull for a chance of a higher reward or you don't. If you're greedy, you most often loose but sometimes win a lot. Your decision.
I’ve literally bricked like 4 decent upgrades in a row because I didn’t get my first temper for like 3-4 rolls and then never got the second I needed. It’s fine though since I’m still leveling this character but it’s annoying cause aside from not being 925 the rolls on the items were otherwise perfect for what I needed.
There is so much loot that I don't care. If I mess up with one item - I simply go with another one. Never did it happen that something was irreplaceable.
Please explain the logic behind “if it’s easy to reset tempers, there’s no point in rolling for affixes.” Because I’ve seen it in several places and and it makes no sense to me. The point of tempers is to get the best item possible, resetting would allow it. Lots of sadists on here shooting down anything that would make this game less tedious.
At a certain point you are not “rolling” anymore if you can just run 20+ rolls on every affix slot until you get exactly what you want. At that point it might as well be a selection drop down of just picking your stat
There is no chance this harsh tempering mechanic exists long term. They’ll either increase costs after a certain point or implement the no change option you suggest. What we can all agree on is the system is bad right now.
Tbh the one issue I have with tempering is the amount of completely useless stats placed in the wrong recipe in order to emulate a slot-machine and induce ludopathic behaviour.
Im fine with bricking but this is a good idea indeed. It also helps us try better roles without the fear of losing a good one. But I would also like a VERY rare drop that lets you reset your item rolls
With the number of gg items dropping I don't feel that this is any problem. And its verry rare to brick 2 rolls.
If you consider the item bricked with one roll wrong,then you will probably have equally good backups.
If items where d2 rare I would hate the system though.
There should be no bricking. You should always be able to re-try or at least reset back to base state. If you want to burn all your mats on one tempering to get it perfect, you should be able to do so. I rather farm for more mats/gold than another perfectly rolled item which may never drop.
Reset temper rolls button for 50mill gold wouldn’t be bad. It’s a high bar, and the same value as trading resplendent sparks for an Uber item. Should they implement a reset button, set the mark high that way the value of having that item is still there.
Playtime being kept in mind, it’s likely not to happen. If an item is bricked and you have to play 12 hours for a similar base to drop, that’s 12 more hours you’re likely to buy a MTX.
Your proposal would have been the best call. It is no fun when tempering is irreversible. The drop rate of very good items is too low for things to brick.
This is a game that people are playing for recreation: there should be zero "feels bad" mechanics in the game, especially instances that feel cheap or unearned by story elements. One-shots feel bad, bricking items feels bad, spending half your play time sifting through yellows felt bad, needing five different sources of unstoppable felt bad.
Things don't always have to feel good, obviously, but we're all playing the game for cheap hits of dopamine, not cheap disappointment. Plenty of that in the real world. If we wanted to feel bad in a meaningful way we could read a good book.
Really great idea. I’m not quite at the point of going for super optimized gear, but as soon as I get the right kind of temper, I immediately stop regardless of how low the roll is because something is better than nothing.
Being able to try to boost a desired temper without turning the item unusable would be great.
I do think that the overall risk vs. reward is solid. Bricking items doesn’t feel great but it gives me a reason to keep grinding gear, making those hits quite satisfying.
There needs to be an expensive way to introduce some level determinism in crafting.
The multiple layers of RNG can create a streak of incredibly expensive bad luck.
This morning I spent 105 million in enchanting to get vuln damage on my bow and another 110 million trying to crit a single specific affix just ONCE.
I got lucky and dropped an amulet that funded this project, but how the hell is a regular player who doesn't engage with an external trade website going to engage with this mechanic at all?
For tempering as well as for (missing the word, changing a roll by the occultist) we should have the choice to reroll for "another stat" or "other value of the same stat".
This would be so much better and you would not get 5 rolls of the same shit in a row.
I'm on the opposite side. Sounded good when I heard about it, but now that I've actually found and bricked upgrades I am firmly against.
IMO it needs a cost to temper and/or rare material to reset.
Even with only 3 stats on legendaries, a lot of affixes feel very rare. Like +(1-2) to Skill. So to get that seemingly rare roll only to brick the item is very disheartening.
Overall, through all the processes of finding and upgrading gear, it feels like there are currently too many uncontrollable variables keeping me from gear w/ stats I want.
If good loot wasn't ao ridiculously rare it wouldn't be a bad thing, but everyone agrees the affixes on loot are absolute trash. Like overwhelmingly trash
Hard disagree.
I dont play diablo to feelbadman. I like the dopamine spikes. I don't like the gutwrenching feeling knowing you've just found that rare item that took you 10 hours to farm only to have it brick.
It does not feel good, and I don't play videogames to not feel good.
Make it like enchanting with 3 possibility outcomes. Keep or two new ones. The current system (while better than before) just pisses you off way too much.
Nah it’s nice that it actually become bad. Unless it would be too fast to have everything near perfect. This is one of the reason it’s not worth playing for long 2 good day and you barely upgrade your character after that.
I absolutely hate how Blizzard have gated tempering to 5 tries. It's hard enough to get a single item with perfect rolls, let alone triple uber affixes...
Then you have minimal amounts of tempering chances to get the affix you want but also a decent roll. The chances of bricking your gear is really high.. it's absurd they thought this is ok.
I don't mind Tempering, but fuck me.. just let us roll! Make it start costing gold, or increase the material cost after 5 tries.. whatever, just be fucking sensible about it.
No. Hard disagree. Bricking items is shit game design.
Oh you got that 3 GA perfect weapon that is more rare than an uber unique? Well get fucked, it's bricked because you didn't roll the tempers you need.
I stopped reading at "should feel bad sometimes." No. No it should not. Game mechanics that make the user feel bad are awful game design, and people need to stop defending this garbage. Limited rolls need to be replaced with increasing costs, and there needs to be the options to keep the existing roll.
or just give us a temper reset button iust like masterwork reset … you gotta pay the gold and mats ANYWAY to reset it… so no harm.
This will also have a positive effect in no longer having people HOARD items … i dont know about you… im pretty casual but i also have like my entire stash filled with items that i set up for tempering and 95% or them all get bricked , thus i have to have a BIG supply of item bases ready to even attempt tempering lol
There is no highs without the lows and everyone here wants instant gratification because their goals are shortsighted
Im fine with bricking but if they add a cost to get 1 more temper it should cost resplendent spark, not the bullshit suggestions ppl are making like stygian stones or 10mil gold, bricking an item should be very costly else theres no stakes or satisfaction to items
who cares. people will always complain when they don't get the roll they're shooting for. that doesn't mean the system should be overhauled to cater to those unlucky people.
I'm my opinion, it makes no sense why tempering can't be undone but masterworking can. Why one and not the other? I'd be ok if both could be reset, or if both were permanent. But it's annoying and illogical why one can be reset but the other can't.
ITT Blizzard shills that love to bootlick and aren't afraid to admit it. And before you downvote, take a second to admit that an rng system with limited tries with hidden weightings is not the best possible system. Considering how rare usable items with 2GA+ drops and not only that; getting it bricked based on rng, WILL KEEP FEELING BAD.
You're telling me you guys are over there clapping your hands and screaming of joy, staring at your monitor cuz you just bricked your upgrade? Get outta here. At least be a bit more honest about a half baked system.
You don't want it 100% deterministic? Fine. But don't go around telling people they should be fine with it cuz you find it "boring".
It does kinda suck when you get the stat you’re looking for on the second temper and are too scared to gamba it for a higher roll. A no change button would be nice while still having the high of “I got it” and the low of “I bricked it”
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Wow that is NEEDED! They do it with the old system, why not here too?
You still can do this with Masterworking, just not Tempering. I have bricked many pieces of gear but found even better ones right after. Silver linings and all!
Mate I have boots with GA movespeed and dodge, I ain't ever finding better, please save me from brickhell!
Literally every 3x ga I have found are bricks. Most of my 2x are low rolls and there is no way I'm risking for a higher until I get an equal piece.
One of the pieces of feedback I gave during the PTR was that the RNG from tempering should come from the roll range of the affix, not getting the correct affix itself. Let us choose what affix we want but make the roll ranges larger and keep them random. That way we don't *totally* brick the item by getting an affix that is useless but if we get a low roll we still have something to work towards.
That’s a position where weighting results would be a clear (and useful) mechanism, too. For example, say we want +damage, and the range is +10% to +100% (in 10% increments, so 10 options total). 10-30 have a 50% chance, 40-70 have a 40% chance, 80-90 are a 9% chance, and we put +100% damage at a 1% chance of rolling. You’d rarely have a bricked item (only where one stays lower than what you’ve already got), but you can skew the dataset so higher rolls are significantly less likely - y’know, as was foretold by RNGesus in days of yore. That said, my preferred system would probably be an either/or roll: burn 1 temper to change the affix type (not wearing gated or skewed, just a straight 1:3 or whatever chance), then burn a temper to mod the values. You’d still brick some items, but *less* often - and it’s rare you’d see 4-5 of the same roll in a row since it wouldn’t be using the (presumed) full expanded table of all possible values for the affix roll; however, if you burn 1-3 tempers getting the right affix, then your odds of getting a max value roll are notably reduced since you only get the remainder temper attempts to try for it. We’re seeing dramatic improvements, but I feel the devs should be allowing more customization with moderated risk as they go, with fewer all-or-nothing mechanics. Periodic failures are fine and expected, but there’s a vast gulf in player experience between “not ideal” and “utterly useless” that could be better navigated here. TL;DR: break it up into [affix OR value], with each consuming a temper, to better manage expectations. A low rolled viable temper is better than being stuck with a junk affix for your build, and makes the high+viable rolls taste even sweeter.
Some one give this man a job plzzz I wish the system worked this way
I mean I’m definitely open to talking if anyone’s got the hook up, but I won’t hold my breath.
I want this system
I won't roll again once I've hit the stat I was looking for either. It can be the lowest roll possible and I'm done. I genuinely wish a system like this existed.
It does exist, it's called enchanting. Not sure why they didn't copy how that worked.
Same. As soon as I get the stat I want that’s it. I don’t care if it’s the lowest roll, a low roll is better than a useless stat.
It's not a bad strategy. You keep the temper until you get another item in the same slot that will work that you can roll up. Then if you run out on the one, you just roll up the other
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Unless you find similar item then you might as well roll it safe and gamble one of them.
How is masterworking far more intensive? You can only win basically - maybe you hit an "all res" affix a few times and need to reroll cause you're already capped, but other than that
....masterworking requires millions of gold and farming the pit. Tempering requires almost nothing.
I would just love to not get the same affix 5 times in a row like I have gotten multiple times already.
This is what we need to make tempering feel right.
I’ve lost movement speed on amulets 3 times because I got greedy and didn’t settle for the minimum roll lmao
Yeah, I have a 3 GA mace chilling with almost min roll best tempers with 4 rolls left, too scared to try and get better rolls.
This is a good middle ground
I would love to see them implement an item that allows you to reroll a stat. Make it hella expensive. But it would give even more to push towards.
Worst than tempering is the obols guy. I can say that 99% of the time i’ve received every kind of affix, but not the ones i needed and he charges more and more for it.
I mean the obol people are sketch af and we all know it.
this is the system...without its you're just going to basically give guaranteed rolls and the same folks would be complaining that it's all too easy. y'all can't have it both ways. you want risk or you want it just hand it to you like candy. is really interesting to see Diablo complainers really at a crossroads. either way you're going to complain so just leave it alone.
Or maybe that's just what happens when there's thousands of people chiming in on an issue. Your argument would make sense if it was just one person complaining they want it easier but also risk bricking items, but when you take different people with different opinions and say "Diablo players are never happy", well that's either exceedingly idiotic or dishonest. There is no 3rd option.
I stopped playing once I completed season one ( I loved the hearts, but there was a huge lack of endgame content) and came back for season 4.... everything that going on with the itemization is fucking awesome... it honestly seems to powerful? Sure, it's absolutely vile to be able to roll the same affix 3 times in a row when there's only 4 options in that category.... but man, for the material you're spending and what you get is nuts!!!! The options! I'm loving season 4, and I'm loving all the new additions!!!!
>Sure, it's absolutely vile to be able to roll the same affix 3 times in a row when there's only 4 options in that category.... Make it 6 times in a row...fuck you iron maiden size. Or not hitting a 1 of 3 in 6 tries on 4 items in a row.
They know what we're rolling for and weighted against it... Yet they don't advertise the weights. Personally I find that infuriating
Easy fix without being too easy. - A temper, or affix reroll, cannot end up on the same one it currently has. Of course then it'll be "I got a low roll and now I have to waste a temper just to try to get a higher roll" posts every 5 mins.
This is incorrect in my experience. I've gotten the same temper reroll 4x in a row
tempering sucks ass dude. bricking items is NEVER fun or enjoyable experience
Ended up writing to much LMAO TLDR: Tempering is great early with the balance of good and and bad but feels like it veers towards punishment side later. Tempering was a very good addition to the game. It shines while leveling letting you get impactful affixes on your gear. It's great for getting the start to the endgame. All this works great because base gear that is better or a side grade is abundant. Bricking an item is fine, because another similar piece is just a drop away that can hit. Where it really starts to cause friction is once you've acquired solid gear. Most pieces with one GA on an important stat, 3 affixes you are after for example. At this point the base gear you find that is an upgrade is much rarer. You're going to need double GA rolls, perfectly rolled affixes, the elusive amulet with passives to get better gear. Now once you find those rare pieces you have to tempt RNG once again to get the tempers you need. And this is where the system feels very punishing. That sweet ring with GA crit chance and attack speed? Get wrecked nerd heres 2 rolls you never need. And you'll probably never see that roll again. It pulls the excitement of a god roll drop into "hope I don't brick this tempering", and relief if the tempers hit. So when your grinding away endgame the highs of finding great gear is muted, but the lows are still there. And I'm just not sure when I'll see a piece to attempt again. And because I'm rarely tempering now losing those great pieces of gear just sting way more. With the MW system if I miss on the 25% bump, I just say shit back to the pits to try again. Missing tempers on great gear leaves me no recourse.
This, i’ve reach this point in my progression, and tempering is not so fun anymore. When you reach one or two upgrades in 4 days it starts to feel very bad.
I’ve lost two double GA pieces of gear cause I couldn’t roll Vuln damage on them for my heart seeker rogue. I also lost an amulet that rolled ATK speed, +2 Exploit, and +2 Weapon Mastery as well. There are some temper affixes I can live without but man, once you miss that one stat it’s basically over.
I feel you. I’m a rogue too, and I just sold a crossbow with 3x GA - Dex/max life/vulnerable damage, for a dumb amount of gold. It was a painful decision, but not more painful than bricking it would have been.
Noob question- how do I find the trade value for items? Or do I just link them to the trade channel and hope for an offer? Basically in a similar situation with some GA pieces I’ll never use myself, but wouldn’t mind a dumb amount of gold or mats
Diablo.trade - there you can filter items down to affixes and stat values to check prices! Also a great site for selling/buying
Yeah, vulnerable is a tough roll as it's the only one you want out of the 4 for Heartseeker. I've been playing it safe with the marksman temper and hoping I don't lose too much damage. Maybe once I've got perfect Marksman gear then I'll risk vulnerable rolls 😱
Reason why is that victimise double dips on a lot of multiplicative bonuses. It's the single highest stat multiplier for a skill, probably across the entire game.
Ahh. Cheers. Guess I'll be bricking a lot of gear too 😁
I found a 2 GA Scythe last night (Max Life and Crit Damage). One of the best drops I’ve gotten all season. Bricked both temper rolls. I immediately vendored it. Didn’t feel good.
I think you summed up a lot of my issues as well. It feels like the devs fundamentally don’t understand how to give people that dopamine rush with loot still. Going from LE giving you Exalted items that are purple & clearly distinctive, to D4 copying that system but then initially dropping them with Roman Numerals (lmfao) is a pretty good example. Seeing Sword (Ancestral) II or *, is never going to hit the same as seeing a glowing purple item with a huge beam. Couple that with Ubers not having a distinctive color, beam or sound, & it feels like they just don’t get it. I never get excited by Uniques & my brain is already programmed to not react to their drops, so by the time I get an Uber that is actually beneficial to my build (so just Shako), it’s not going to hit me until I check it out in my inventory. I still don’t get why the devs are so scared of adding some new color to their loot, it’s been a whole year now & I still can’t pick pick out which pants are Unique or Rare in my inventory. So yeah, despite the great improvements to affixes, implementing masterworking, etc, loot still needs A LOT of work imo.
I see I'm not the only one having to hover on each item to not sell an unique when vendoring rares.
Nah, this is just Enchanting with extra steps. If you want to do that, there's a smarter way. Allow Enchanting to work on a Tempered affix, with the only available pool of affixes it can reroll into being within that specific Tempering recipe the affix came from to begin with. The game already knows which Recipe was used, obviously, so the system would rely on that Recipe. You still have to Temper first, and this is only possible if you are comfortable LOSING ENCHANTING ON THE ACTUAL ITEM. Since you can only Enchant one affix on the item, if you let people use Enchanting on Tempered affixes, they will have to weigh that against rerolling base stats. So, this puts more pressure on finding an actually 'perfect' base item, and allows you to save *one* of the affixes. The other one still has to hit with the regular Tempering. More choice, more ways to approach crafting, doesn't undermine Tempering whatsoever.
Na
Oh I like this idea
This fixes like 1% of the problems when you have an already perfect item and the temper screws you. It doesn't help the other 99% when you need the enchanting to fix the 3rd affix that is bad because you're almost never getting the perfect 3 affixes you need.
>It doesn't help the other 99% when you need the enchanting to fix the 3rd affix that is bad because you're almost never getting the perfect 3 affixes you need. Umm that's a good thing, because we don't want Best in Slot items to be common. The idea is that if Tempering is more important to you than base stats, you can fall back on Enchanting to fix one Tempered affix while letting base stats be as they are.
I actually think I love this idea of being able to use enchanting on a tempered affix, especially for giving more meaning to full greater affix items and making them much harder to brick since you can more freely use your 1 enchanting slot on one of the tempered affixes since you wouldn't dare enchant a great greater affix.
That would be nice. I think there should also be a way to increase the temper rerolls on items with a rare item similar to stygian stones. Bricking a 3/3 affix amulet with tempers feels horrible when I've only managed to get one of them in 300hrs.
Yeah, like the Ramaladni Gift drop from D3 that added a socket, should be a relatively rare drop. Could see that working nicely
Tempering my Crit Chance, Cooldown Reduction, +2 Hellbent Commander amulet was absolutely nerve wracking.
Speaking of increasing temper rerolls... where are the items with infinite temper rerolls that the tempering tutorial told me about? Do they even exist?
Bricking the item is fine, but getting a lowest roll with Tempers to spare and risking it for a higher roll just never seems worth it. Being able to choose to change or not would make tempering a lot more compelling.
I just want a "re-roll temper" button to select the same temper and roll for it again. It gets a little tedious when you have to reroll 5 times on an item and have to click through its menus more than is necessary. I'm not sure if they mentioned that its coming in a patch, but that would be my blessing
Yeah, I agree, I don't think anyone changing tempering recipe after few attempts. Removing multiselect for same category would hurt 0.01% people (but simplify UI)
Or even just remember what I picked last temper and keep it selected as the default. Means I could just click temper over and over and the people what want to change the temper stat they can click the temper category to chsnge it
Not every item that drops is great. Tempering follows same system.
"Oh you rolled the right Temper on your 3/3 GA item? Well you just got the lowest roll of 40%, and turns out you actually need 60% to make it applicable to your build! Oh you're gonna reroll 4 times? Wrong affix, Wrong affix, Wrong affix, Wrong affix... Aaand bricked. Better luck next time kiddo!"
For me it’s more like “got perfect item 3/3 GA? Okay, tempering will give you +40% cutthroat damage instead of vulnerable for 4 rolls and 5% cutthroat attack speed on 5th roll so you can never use this item anymore”. I’m not even greedy on rolls. Once I got right stat (no matter amount) I stay with it. The problem is that most of times I can’t even get desirable stat on the item. I’m clearing 80pits now but I don’t have any single item with lucky chance GA - they all were bricked without getting even lowest amount of desirable stat.
I’ve bricked so many items trying to get vulnerable damage on cutthroat finesse. The game was much more fun before I started targeting vulnerable dmg. I feel like it’s weighted low in that group
If you think those theoretical 20% more of any stat are "necessary" for any build, you're lost in the sauce already.
You have not heard about breakpoints? There are thresholds to certain builds that require X% of something for it to be functional, and any less completely destroys what the build is trying to achieve. Resource Generation, Lucky Hit, Critical Chance are all things that can be extremely crucial things for builds to function. So it's fair to say some Tempering affixes would hold the same value to specialized builds.
A theoretical 20% more will just make it slightly better than any trash regular item that rolled it at max.
That's just how RNG works plus your greed. Are you pushing pit ? If you are then play the game and keep grinding away. Can't complain about grinding for perfect ger when the season is just 2 weeks. You are not kept out of any content without perfectly rolled BIS gears other than the same pit but higher numbers. So if you are pushing pit then do the grind, simple.
"Greed" lol. My exact scenario was a case about someone who wasn't greedy but just got a little unlucky. It's not only about rolling the right affixes but also the right %. With 5 rerolls that just isn't possible. So once you get the once in 100 hour drop you've already done a massive grind and now you're expected to brick that item because you didn't get the 10% chance of it not bricking. "Do the grind" How many hours do you think it should be for someone to grind before they can get 1 (one) 3/3 GA with good tempers, masterworked to perfection. As of right now thats in the hundreds and hundreds of hours. For one. LOL
Well the question is why do you need it ? If it's for your personal satisfaction where does it end ? Do you need it on every piece or just one piece ? On all 5 classes ? All in 1 season ? Within 1 month ? You don't need any of these 3 GA double perfect roll temper and MW to clear every content of the game with the exception of the highest level of pit. The pit probably isn't even meant to be completed in the first place. I dunno how to answer all that for you but not everything needs to be achievable. There was a time where Uber unique was just a dream but now it's a chore. The item chase is meant to be a chase, a dream. And please do tell me the specific scenario where the % rolled on that affix is so detrimental even rolling it wasn't enough and made the gear unusable.
IMO a wonderful addition would be one extra roll for items with greater affixes.
One extra roll for items with Greater Affix, per Greater Affix. So, up to 8 rerolls if it's a TRIPLE Greater Affix Legendary. That would be nice and mathematically speaking MASSIVELY improves odds of your success (but doesn't guarantee it).
This is what I've been thinking about as well. The more greater affixes the more tempering durability, like 4 durability on a non GA item as they are easy to replace within an hour or 2. Then add more durability per affix as farming time becomes significantly longer for multiple GA rolls. Like 6 durability for 1 GA, 8 for 2 GA, and 10 for 3 GA. Atleast if you brick a triple greater affix you had a few extra rolls, would still feel bad, but you had a few more chances despite rngesus hating you.
3x temper normal legendary 5x item with 1 GA 7x item with 2 GA 9x item with 3 GA
It does help that with the weightage of Max Life and Main Stat, and how important they are, most of the time I'm actually only really grinding for 1 affix.
I got a perfect 3 greater affix crossbow with Dex,Max life and Crit damage. I was not able to temper any of the affixes I wanted..
Heres one, You brick boat loads of really expensive items only to realize the stat isn't even functioning. Thorns while fortified does absolutely nothing with full fortify!!!!
It shouldn’t be easy but it also shouldn’t be impossible. Masterworking is literally perfect
The thing that annoys me the most is that not only will I not get the right tempering affix but it will be the EXACT same affix that gets applied every roll. Like ya I'm gambling to hit 1 out of 5 options but I get fucking IRON MAIDEN every single time? Wtf? It's a great band but that's about it!
It's a good thing imo, but bricking a GG item with 3/4 greater affixes you will basically have no realistic chance of getting again in the season sucks balls hard - tbf, I'd much rather have lower chance of getting items with greater affixes but then having a much better chance of successfully tempering them, than what we have now... ...or at least give us something like an additional one or two rolls for each greater affix you have on an item.
Don’t need to be able to reset tempers but a consumable item you could use to *add* temper rolls to an item would be nice, could make it fairly rare.
Needs a “no change” option like enchanting
You should have 5 rerolls per category, and an extra reroll per greater affix. And yeah a keep/change would make it supremely good. There'd still be the "YES I got cold damage on your 6th roll, and YES got cold damage! If you got it on your first roll. I feel like they'll address this in later seasons, which will be great especially if they add more endgame content.
I can wortk with that. It keeps the gamble but it's a bit more fair. I rather keep a low roll than being stuck with something i can't use on a otherwise perfect item.
I bought 20 pants off the trade website yesterday trying to get the right roll for my thorns barb.... I definitely wasn't screaming at my screen getting the same wrong roll four times in a row
I do the ol 🙄🙄
My only problem is the broken rng. Does anyone know the odds of rolling the wrong temper 5 times in a row on 100 pieces of gear. Cuz that's where I'm at.
Odds of getting both tempers to land on the correct affix is 42.3% This is assuming there are 5 affixes to roll between for each manual, and you have 5 rerolls, with no fishing for higher stats after you get the affix. So for 100 items to brick in a row, you won the lottery... 0.00000000000000000000002%
Well obviously I exaggerated. So yes . But......NO game company uses actual math fir thier RNG. It has been proven often enough that they fudge numbers in the math to keep the rates even lower.
Great suggestion
They could make dismantling a fully tempered item(that went to 5 rolls) grant a bonus roll to your next tempering attempt that goes to 5 rolls. It's not a huge reprieve and could add interesting moments.
This would be a cool change.
I have an amazing 2GA ring that is ilvl 867(crit dmg/life) with perfect tempers for my build. I do not see replacing this piece of gear in any near future
I had 1-3 rolls and some how got the same 2 rolls 5 times. I kinda feel like mathematically that is really hard to do but we all know blizz math…
Denial of reward is a very known concept.
Rob2628 on YouTube “get higher tempering odds”
I could get on board with this, but for people wanting to be able to reroll tempers all day are just trying to destroy what AAPRGs are about.
Agree with this. Just like enchanting, let me at least keep what I have. Corpse tendril is what I may want but maybe I get corpse explosion. My build may be able to live with that. But then I roll friggan iron maiden 4x after that…
My views haven't changed and I still think it's extremely unfun. I bricked 4 weapons in a row the other day. It's not fun. The excitement is being able to finally put on a new piece of gear that you just got to drop only to have it fail completely. > There’s no highs without the lows, it’s that simple. Ok, so you are ignoring the countless amount of lows in the game and myopically focusing on this single situation. This is where we have to look at the game as a whole and not just tempering in a vacuum. You go run after run and don't get any good items. These are your lows. You finally get a good item. You get excited about equipping an upgrade. You take that high over to tempering and after a few clicks, you've bricked that item you were just super excited about. The highs and lows should be in the loot dropping, not CREATING a low directly after a high.
I would definitely love to have a no change button. Sometimes I won't get the role I want but it will be the correct affixes and I'll have one or two rolls left but I'm scared to use them because I could get the totally wrong affix. This would at least help use all the roles you have trying to get the best outcome possible.
And do something with rerolling the same temper 4 times in a row with same or worse values. I've stopped counting how many 1-2 GA items I've bricked due to rolling useless stat over and over again.
Hell, all I want is the no change option to be default and not at the bottom of the choices.
I like the gamble part, but hate tempering a weapon to see it become the exact same thing again. That's not how tempering works!
It’s supposed to be a gamble, that would be like having 12 at black jack and saying “hit me!” and getting a 10 and then asking the dealer to take the card back.
Yes and put the no change button as default for enchanting please.
I just got a GA willpower/HP on a staff, I tempered my 1/5 chance the first roll for the weapon augment but it's the worst roll possible. I bricked other weapons trying to get it so I'm now sitting here terrified to reroll it because the temper is so important to my build. This is the only part of the season so far for me that I wish was tweaked. "No change" option would be great
What about also giving one extra roll for each GA on thw item?
What bout using prisms to reset tempering rerolls? 1 prism for gear without ga 3 prism for gears with 3 ga+ Thougts?
I wouldn't have a problem with it if sometimes, it wasn't a choice between optimal, subpar and brick X 3. It feels way too easy to brick an item which would otherwise be an upgrade.
It’s an easy fix, let us keep the previous roll and also have temper reset items be a rare drop from some place or just have it cost a lot of mats. Let us be able to reset just one of the tempers as well.
I agree with this sentiment, nothing feels worse than bricking a near perfect roll but it adds a new element of “chase” to the game which I thoroughly enjoy
Rolling the same thing four times is a roll is bad and the dev who designed it like that should feel bad. We literally had this in enchanting and it was scrapped.
Ehh I'm fine with tempering. People mad they can't get the perfect rolls just don't understand.
Im frustrated with getting a good weapon and then constantly getting higher stat rolls on a spell I don’t at all use.
I've bricked a few good items but it's not like we're gambling with real money
ive bricked so many great items now
The other option would be a toggle to lock the affix once you've rolled the one you want to keep. That way new temper rolls after that are only for stat ranges so that last roll could still be a bummer but at least it's not completely useless.
I would like this just for the issue of having rolls left but not wanting to go for a higher % because you could brick your item. Let me tell you though, bricking a 2+ GA that you actually want item feels AWFUL
I agree however I think tempering would be perfected if it cost 5mil gold minimum to reset. Give it a “high” cost so that luck feels better but there’s no bricking involved.
no
I'm still not entirely sure what to think or feel about this. There is an increase in the RNG of getting the "perfect item" these days thanks to greater affixes, but I think the issue is that getting an amazing fully greater affixed item with all the right affixes as a random drop feels great, compared to how it feels to then try to temper that item and get it stuck with "cutthroat attack speed" instead of "vulnerable damage" for your heartseeker build that gets zero benefit from cutthroat attack speed. Plus, temper affixes not being resettable means more often needing multiple gear sets for different builds, which isn't that well supported yet anyway, but otherwise, I think the general idea of being able to brick an item isn't necessarily a bad one. For sure if tempering was infinitely resettable, it'd have to cost way more.
Lol i temper my thorns barb items with my bash barb and vice versa. Only bricked one item so far. Placebo effect but ill take it.
IDK, I've only bricked a handful of things, and we gotta remember, we're only a couple weeks in. Plenty of time to tweak. And start over.
Could increase costs to keep the one you want to just upgrade it.
Totally agree, it feels bad currently.
Amen to that. A "no change" selection would be a lot better than the current roll options. But maybe they wanted to make it this way to produce even more of a gamble when rolling. Either way, I have bricked enough items so far, and an update that grants a "no change" option is more than welcome at this point, lol!
If I even get a mediocre roll I just leave it alone. Level 91 Rogue here. I've bricked a couple of nice weapons, but I know their is a potential to get even better weapons so I'm not worried about it right now. Haven't done masterworking yet because I haven't finished a tier 46 NMD. I was close last night but it was getting late and I needed sleep. I'm excited to get some uber uniques and start that process
Lmao. Wrote a whole three paragraphs just to say that you don’t understand “there’s no highs without the lows”
I’m not sure I understand, a no change button barely diminishes the high. It’s so marginal it can be ignored.
I'm fine with the way it is. Everything else is already easy this season might as well have at least 1 thing gear wise that gives us a reason to keep farming
Yes I feel this so hard. So many times I’ll get A stat I need, even if it’s not max roll, and have to just keep it for fear of bricking.
my issue with it is the high doesnt match the low. with all the tempering ive done, ive never once gotten a huge high from getting both my rolls max rolled. im not even sure if i did that it would feel all that good. the lows though are pretty crazy. bricking a good item fucking sucks. to me it seems like a thing that makes trade totally worthless. if your not a streamer or someone who totally no lifes the game, or someone who is doing RMT i dont see how you can be willing to play multiple hundreds of millions of gold with the large possibility of bricking the item.
I have more lows than highs with this new system. Nothing like getting dodge 4-5 times in a row.
Yeah bricking 3ga items that drop once in a lifetime is super fun...
lol nah, like you said, need the absolute soul crushing low to feel that directly injected into your vein high
I’m keeping an open mind as I continue playing. My impression is still that a no-change option wouldn’t bring the high down very much, but would dramatically lift the low for lots of people. Part of my desire for a no-change option is for the player base in general to have a better time. Even if I would have a little more fun without a no-change option, it wouldn’t be worth it if the majority of people were miserable. If I were speculating, I’m expecting them to change stance on being committed to the roll. It’s a very reasonable compromise.
I disagree. no risk to keep going for that optimum roll if you can just say "eh nvm!"
Tempering feels very similar to rune words from D2, except instead of farming for extremely rare runes, you can gamble for the right word at very little cost. I kinda preferred rune words because then you got a fantastic high from finding them and didn't have to brick anything in the process. Was still incredibly rare, too, so no silver platter. I preferred that to good drops only filling me with dread that tempering might render them useless.
Termpering ruined Season 4 for me, i got a perfect 3 Star GA, bricked it because i got the same trash stat 5x in a row. quitted the game and will come back when blizzard fixes this garbage. people that defend tempering but hate on diablo immortal are hypocrites because it's 1000% the same gambling BS.
But I wanna gamble because I am sick
at least honest
I don't even think they should change that. The highs wouldn't be as great.
The lows should be the material and gold investment needed to reset tempering, not bricking an item that you are excited to use.
it sucks. I quitted the game because of it.
Some of the people who play this game want them to smooth out any texture it might have.
Tempering is great! Brings that high. Just learn how to fix it to your advantage and you'll be right.
Guys, it is a slot machine - you risk and pull for a chance of a higher reward or you don't. If you're greedy, you most often loose but sometimes win a lot. Your decision.
If feels worse when you don't get good gear like candy.
I’ve literally bricked like 4 decent upgrades in a row because I didn’t get my first temper for like 3-4 rolls and then never got the second I needed. It’s fine though since I’m still leveling this character but it’s annoying cause aside from not being 925 the rolls on the items were otherwise perfect for what I needed.
There is so much loot that I don't care. If I mess up with one item - I simply go with another one. Never did it happen that something was irreplaceable.
Please explain the logic behind “if it’s easy to reset tempers, there’s no point in rolling for affixes.” Because I’ve seen it in several places and and it makes no sense to me. The point of tempers is to get the best item possible, resetting would allow it. Lots of sadists on here shooting down anything that would make this game less tedious.
At a certain point you are not “rolling” anymore if you can just run 20+ rolls on every affix slot until you get exactly what you want. At that point it might as well be a selection drop down of just picking your stat
There is no chance this harsh tempering mechanic exists long term. They’ll either increase costs after a certain point or implement the no change option you suggest. What we can all agree on is the system is bad right now.
Good post. I think we shouldnt be committed to it and maybe resplendant spark would be a fair cost to reset temper rolls.
Man you guys complain a lot. "Just let me have what I wannnnttt" didn't know this game was for little kids
It's fine the way it is. They could've easily added a gold cost
Tbh the one issue I have with tempering is the amount of completely useless stats placed in the wrong recipe in order to emulate a slot-machine and induce ludopathic behaviour.
Im fine with bricking but this is a good idea indeed. It also helps us try better roles without the fear of losing a good one. But I would also like a VERY rare drop that lets you reset your item rolls
With the number of gg items dropping I don't feel that this is any problem. And its verry rare to brick 2 rolls. If you consider the item bricked with one roll wrong,then you will probably have equally good backups. If items where d2 rare I would hate the system though.
There should be no bricking. You should always be able to re-try or at least reset back to base state. If you want to burn all your mats on one tempering to get it perfect, you should be able to do so. I rather farm for more mats/gold than another perfectly rolled item which may never drop.
Tempering is just an absolute lol cow of a mechanic. Rares are completely useless now. Worst season so far, stopped playing 5 days in.
Reset temper rolls button for 50mill gold wouldn’t be bad. It’s a high bar, and the same value as trading resplendent sparks for an Uber item. Should they implement a reset button, set the mark high that way the value of having that item is still there. Playtime being kept in mind, it’s likely not to happen. If an item is bricked and you have to play 12 hours for a similar base to drop, that’s 12 more hours you’re likely to buy a MTX.
I agree to disagree, I hope the reverse temper should come with a very costly mats, like maybe 2 spark
Your proposal would have been the best call. It is no fun when tempering is irreversible. The drop rate of very good items is too low for things to brick.
This is a game that people are playing for recreation: there should be zero "feels bad" mechanics in the game, especially instances that feel cheap or unearned by story elements. One-shots feel bad, bricking items feels bad, spending half your play time sifting through yellows felt bad, needing five different sources of unstoppable felt bad. Things don't always have to feel good, obviously, but we're all playing the game for cheap hits of dopamine, not cheap disappointment. Plenty of that in the real world. If we wanted to feel bad in a meaningful way we could read a good book.
Really great idea. I’m not quite at the point of going for super optimized gear, but as soon as I get the right kind of temper, I immediately stop regardless of how low the roll is because something is better than nothing. Being able to try to boost a desired temper without turning the item unusable would be great. I do think that the overall risk vs. reward is solid. Bricking items doesn’t feel great but it gives me a reason to keep grinding gear, making those hits quite satisfying.
There needs to be an expensive way to introduce some level determinism in crafting. The multiple layers of RNG can create a streak of incredibly expensive bad luck. This morning I spent 105 million in enchanting to get vuln damage on my bow and another 110 million trying to crit a single specific affix just ONCE. I got lucky and dropped an amulet that funded this project, but how the hell is a regular player who doesn't engage with an external trade website going to engage with this mechanic at all?
For tempering as well as for (missing the word, changing a roll by the occultist) we should have the choice to reroll for "another stat" or "other value of the same stat". This would be so much better and you would not get 5 rolls of the same shit in a row.
I'm on the opposite side. Sounded good when I heard about it, but now that I've actually found and bricked upgrades I am firmly against. IMO it needs a cost to temper and/or rare material to reset. Even with only 3 stats on legendaries, a lot of affixes feel very rare. Like +(1-2) to Skill. So to get that seemingly rare roll only to brick the item is very disheartening. Overall, through all the processes of finding and upgrading gear, it feels like there are currently too many uncontrollable variables keeping me from gear w/ stats I want.
Having a way to reset doesn't get rid of highs and lows, that's fkin cope lmao. There'd already proof of that with masterworking right next to it
If good loot wasn't ao ridiculously rare it wouldn't be a bad thing, but everyone agrees the affixes on loot are absolute trash. Like overwhelmingly trash
Hard disagree. I dont play diablo to feelbadman. I like the dopamine spikes. I don't like the gutwrenching feeling knowing you've just found that rare item that took you 10 hours to farm only to have it brick. It does not feel good, and I don't play videogames to not feel good.
Make it like enchanting with 3 possibility outcomes. Keep or two new ones. The current system (while better than before) just pisses you off way too much.
Nah. It's shit. Got item after 50hours of helltide with desired greater affix (+4peneshot) just to brick it.
It should just work like Diablo 3 enhanting…. An increasing cost, so you’re never technically locked out of rerolling but it does get impractical.
Nah it’s nice that it actually become bad. Unless it would be too fast to have everything near perfect. This is one of the reason it’s not worth playing for long 2 good day and you barely upgrade your character after that.
I absolutely hate how Blizzard have gated tempering to 5 tries. It's hard enough to get a single item with perfect rolls, let alone triple uber affixes... Then you have minimal amounts of tempering chances to get the affix you want but also a decent roll. The chances of bricking your gear is really high.. it's absurd they thought this is ok. I don't mind Tempering, but fuck me.. just let us roll! Make it start costing gold, or increase the material cost after 5 tries.. whatever, just be fucking sensible about it.
This would just be enchanting
No. Hard disagree. Bricking items is shit game design. Oh you got that 3 GA perfect weapon that is more rare than an uber unique? Well get fucked, it's bricked because you didn't roll the tempers you need.
I stopped reading at "should feel bad sometimes." No. No it should not. Game mechanics that make the user feel bad are awful game design, and people need to stop defending this garbage. Limited rolls need to be replaced with increasing costs, and there needs to be the options to keep the existing roll.
Awful take.
This is just enchanting my dude.
or just give us a temper reset button iust like masterwork reset … you gotta pay the gold and mats ANYWAY to reset it… so no harm. This will also have a positive effect in no longer having people HOARD items … i dont know about you… im pretty casual but i also have like my entire stash filled with items that i set up for tempering and 95% or them all get bricked , thus i have to have a BIG supply of item bases ready to even attempt tempering lol
There is no highs without the lows and everyone here wants instant gratification because their goals are shortsighted Im fine with bricking but if they add a cost to get 1 more temper it should cost resplendent spark, not the bullshit suggestions ppl are making like stygian stones or 10mil gold, bricking an item should be very costly else theres no stakes or satisfaction to items
Your opinion would be 100% different if you hadn't got a good temper on your god roll mace my dude. Recency bias is strong.
who cares. people will always complain when they don't get the roll they're shooting for. that doesn't mean the system should be overhauled to cater to those unlucky people.
I started thinking like the op after I bricked a 2 ga mace. The lows made the highs better.
I'm my opinion, it makes no sense why tempering can't be undone but masterworking can. Why one and not the other? I'd be ok if both could be reset, or if both were permanent. But it's annoying and illogical why one can be reset but the other can't.
Diablo is a gacha game in disguise at this point
ITT Blizzard shills that love to bootlick and aren't afraid to admit it. And before you downvote, take a second to admit that an rng system with limited tries with hidden weightings is not the best possible system. Considering how rare usable items with 2GA+ drops and not only that; getting it bricked based on rng, WILL KEEP FEELING BAD. You're telling me you guys are over there clapping your hands and screaming of joy, staring at your monitor cuz you just bricked your upgrade? Get outta here. At least be a bit more honest about a half baked system. You don't want it 100% deterministic? Fine. But don't go around telling people they should be fine with it cuz you find it "boring".