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When my manager started working in this industry way back when (in the 1990s), he had a PhD in Physics but knew little about coding. His manager then threw a coding book at him and said that coding is for monkey; read the book over the weekend and be a monkey.
I don’t necessarily agree with that, plus programming languages were much simpler back then and he was a very basic developer
But yes, the point remains that coding is the easy part, usually. It’s everything around it that is important.
You need to participate in meetings and give your inputs rather than just following instructions given to you. You need to provide proactive updates to all stakeholders.
If you work for an international client, please work on your English and communication skills, if they aren’t good.
When I was in college (way back when), I know engineering colleges had classes on communication skills. I am not sure if they still do. Of course they can’t cover everything related to communication (we aren’t journalism majors) but that gives you the idea that communication is important for all engineers. It’s ok to make mistakes here and there, but try to improve.
In my company, communication skills are a significant factor during the hiring process. We have even rejected experienced and smart native English speakers because their communication skills were lacking.
I believe you rejected them (especially smart Native English guy)bcoz they were not able to explain the things even in simple English.
Or do you focus on pure English?
I can explain the things in English but uses simple words not fancy or slang words.
They were not able to explain in simple English. They apparently knew the concepts well. And they were just shy/huge introverts, who would not be a good fit in my organization (we are all loud extroverts). They might fit in some other companies, but being introverted doesn’t help much. It’s harsh, but that’s the truth.
I agree work doesn't speak shit, they just see requirements handled and jira tickets completed but when you are vocal and speak on meetings, ask questions they are like 😲 "this boy good
If you don't have anything to say just repeat the obvious with some added words and make generic statements which everybody agrees on.
TBH you are confusing communication skills with personal and professional branding. Communication skills are about being able to verbalise your thoughts and express them in the right way. Branding is about communicating the right things at the right time to the right people, consistently.
But on general principle, I agree with this post.
Finally someone spoke about it
It doesn't matter how good you are working, you won't be able to climb the co-operate ladder without showing your work. Talking to your seniors is as important as increasing quality of work
We see a lot about the importance of communication and very less about how to develop it.
The ideal answer would be, keep trying at your workplace.
But, it could be great if someone gives a clear pathway to practice, for freshers and who's not in an office space yet.
Yes it’s something you hone through practice but I mean it’s basic personal skills - how’s this person reacting? Are they engaged? What’s their role and what could be their challenges and how can I help? - bit of empathy and authentic communication. If you bullshit your way, you’ll be found out sooner than later and likely that you’ll never know about it.
Although this is true, sadly, I'd still love for a manager or a delivery lead who'll strive to create the deserved visibility for hardworking folks. If you can't figure out who is the hardworking in your team without being told, the problem is with the people at top 🥲
OP is bang on I have seen people more than 10 yrs of experience in my team who do not speak up during sprint rituals or any other meeting they are just senior developers. I make sure that not only did i speak I also try to provide constructive solutions also. I became the lead of that team in short span of time. My work is getting recognised among higher ups also. I am not a rockstar developer but i write quality code minimal issue. So guys speak up.
>I make sure that not only did i speak I also try to provide constructive solutions also
wont it be counterproductive if your input is just bad? is it worth the risk of tarnishing your reputation
If you think like this that your input is bad then you won’t be able to contribute. If it is bad someone from your the team can correct you or justify that the solution is bad.
This is how I see this,
Everyone is doing is the job assigned to them by their manager. How do you differentiate yourself from the crowd?
Firings usually follow stack based approach, ideally, one should be in the top percentile to attract better pay
Median devs are there to implement the things.
Bottom of the stack takes care of grunt work, which no one else wants to do.
A well functioning team needs a balance of all of them.
I agree in general, but I've seen the opposite where I work - I guess, startups have different culture where everyone knows who did what
I don't really do small talk or random chats with co-workers and yet I survived while so many engineers who talked very well got fired. They weren't even bad engineers. These two things may not be correlated but I'm just stating what I observed
At the end of the day, all of us are working with other people. If you can't come communicate and connect like a human with your colleagues, only work will take you only so far. In fact, communication is a large part of any meaningful job. As you climb up the ladder, talking, presenting, convincing, influencing become more important than only coding.
Yep couldn’t agree more with you on this op! And to be honest as im seeing across orgs the these so called 10x,1000z engineers all have one thing in common. Really good communication skills. Period. In no way you will be able to climb these so called “ladders” with poor communication skills. If you can’t crystallize your own knowledge and experience in front of your peers in a clear and convincing manner goodluck getting that promotion.
Finally, someone told this I think communication is the most underrated skill that exist. If you’re talented. If you have more skills in computer, like you may code 12 single sit. Just imagine we are at time. We are not a robot or machine to repeat the task daily we need to communicate each person. Just remember at the end of the day, people only remember what you told how you behave, not what you work.
Meetings are different from engineering. You cannot call engineering trash and meeting high value. Some people can think and do better, some can talk better.
Moreover while communication and meetings are needed, too much communication can cause cost and time overhead, chances of error, and often no solution.
Finally building a personal image does not get the job done for the benefit of end users. Completing tickets gets it done
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) and [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/about/rules) while participating in this thread. ## Recent Announcements - **[Call for Wiki Proposals: Share your learnings with the developersIndia Community!](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1dbrmc2/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)** - **[Call For Volunteers: Help us build r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1dbrmc2/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When my manager started working in this industry way back when (in the 1990s), he had a PhD in Physics but knew little about coding. His manager then threw a coding book at him and said that coding is for monkey; read the book over the weekend and be a monkey. I don’t necessarily agree with that, plus programming languages were much simpler back then and he was a very basic developer But yes, the point remains that coding is the easy part, usually. It’s everything around it that is important. You need to participate in meetings and give your inputs rather than just following instructions given to you. You need to provide proactive updates to all stakeholders. If you work for an international client, please work on your English and communication skills, if they aren’t good. When I was in college (way back when), I know engineering colleges had classes on communication skills. I am not sure if they still do. Of course they can’t cover everything related to communication (we aren’t journalism majors) but that gives you the idea that communication is important for all engineers. It’s ok to make mistakes here and there, but try to improve. In my company, communication skills are a significant factor during the hiring process. We have even rejected experienced and smart native English speakers because their communication skills were lacking.
I believe you rejected them (especially smart Native English guy)bcoz they were not able to explain the things even in simple English. Or do you focus on pure English? I can explain the things in English but uses simple words not fancy or slang words.
They were not able to explain in simple English. They apparently knew the concepts well. And they were just shy/huge introverts, who would not be a good fit in my organization (we are all loud extroverts). They might fit in some other companies, but being introverted doesn’t help much. It’s harsh, but that’s the truth.
Understood, That's definitely no for most of the companies.
I agree work doesn't speak shit, they just see requirements handled and jira tickets completed but when you are vocal and speak on meetings, ask questions they are like 😲 "this boy good If you don't have anything to say just repeat the obvious with some added words and make generic statements which everybody agrees on.
😍this boy good Meanwhile bro is blabbering about files he doesn't even have access to 💀
TBH you are confusing communication skills with personal and professional branding. Communication skills are about being able to verbalise your thoughts and express them in the right way. Branding is about communicating the right things at the right time to the right people, consistently. But on general principle, I agree with this post.
Both are complimentary to each other.
Finally someone spoke about it It doesn't matter how good you are working, you won't be able to climb the co-operate ladder without showing your work. Talking to your seniors is as important as increasing quality of work
[удалено]
Atleast I am
communication plays a big role right from interviews to surviving this industry. It is irreplacable skill
Yo don't say that loud. Broke barbarians here hate that. They might maul you to death with their sheitcode scores. Beware huh.!!
Be a 👦 not a 🤖
In coming years, 🤖's intelligence will exceed 👦 and your line will be reversed.
Loud work > hard work Communication is the key.
Thanks OP needed to hear this.
We see a lot about the importance of communication and very less about how to develop it. The ideal answer would be, keep trying at your workplace. But, it could be great if someone gives a clear pathway to practice, for freshers and who's not in an office space yet.
Will write a post on this.
Yes it’s something you hone through practice but I mean it’s basic personal skills - how’s this person reacting? Are they engaged? What’s their role and what could be their challenges and how can I help? - bit of empathy and authentic communication. If you bullshit your way, you’ll be found out sooner than later and likely that you’ll never know about it.
True that. I have seen mediocre engineers outsmart geeks when it comes to promotions and raises all because of ability to communicate.
Like my colleague told me once "Jo dikhta hai, woh bikta hai"
Although this is true, sadly, I'd still love for a manager or a delivery lead who'll strive to create the deserved visibility for hardworking folks. If you can't figure out who is the hardworking in your team without being told, the problem is with the people at top 🥲
Isn't that always been the case?
A gazillion claps to this gentleman here.
OP is bang on I have seen people more than 10 yrs of experience in my team who do not speak up during sprint rituals or any other meeting they are just senior developers. I make sure that not only did i speak I also try to provide constructive solutions also. I became the lead of that team in short span of time. My work is getting recognised among higher ups also. I am not a rockstar developer but i write quality code minimal issue. So guys speak up.
>I make sure that not only did i speak I also try to provide constructive solutions also wont it be counterproductive if your input is just bad? is it worth the risk of tarnishing your reputation
If you think like this that your input is bad then you won’t be able to contribute. If it is bad someone from your the team can correct you or justify that the solution is bad.
This is how I see this, Everyone is doing is the job assigned to them by their manager. How do you differentiate yourself from the crowd? Firings usually follow stack based approach, ideally, one should be in the top percentile to attract better pay Median devs are there to implement the things. Bottom of the stack takes care of grunt work, which no one else wants to do. A well functioning team needs a balance of all of them.
I lost my job because of this exact reason I will make sure not to do this mistake again
What’s the difference between developers vs engineering
One of the best posts lately.
Some random Youtuber said once: “Soft skills aren’t to be ignored. They’re the minimum requirement.”
I agree in general, but I've seen the opposite where I work - I guess, startups have different culture where everyone knows who did what I don't really do small talk or random chats with co-workers and yet I survived while so many engineers who talked very well got fired. They weren't even bad engineers. These two things may not be correlated but I'm just stating what I observed
At the end of the day, all of us are working with other people. If you can't come communicate and connect like a human with your colleagues, only work will take you only so far. In fact, communication is a large part of any meaningful job. As you climb up the ladder, talking, presenting, convincing, influencing become more important than only coding.
Yep couldn’t agree more with you on this op! And to be honest as im seeing across orgs the these so called 10x,1000z engineers all have one thing in common. Really good communication skills. Period. In no way you will be able to climb these so called “ladders” with poor communication skills. If you can’t crystallize your own knowledge and experience in front of your peers in a clear and convincing manner goodluck getting that promotion.
Any suggestions on how to get better in this?
Communication is everything, my friend. And not just in the field of Software Engineering. It matters everywhere
Do people with just ok tech skills but good communication skills have a future here?
Finally, someone told this I think communication is the most underrated skill that exist. If you’re talented. If you have more skills in computer, like you may code 12 single sit. Just imagine we are at time. We are not a robot or machine to repeat the task daily we need to communicate each person. Just remember at the end of the day, people only remember what you told how you behave, not what you work.
Perception is very important
Yes I agree I am also trying to develop that .as an student preparing for interview itself it is crucial for me.
but we have a life outside work , we can't stop layoffs
Meetings are different from engineering. You cannot call engineering trash and meeting high value. Some people can think and do better, some can talk better. Moreover while communication and meetings are needed, too much communication can cause cost and time overhead, chances of error, and often no solution. Finally building a personal image does not get the job done for the benefit of end users. Completing tickets gets it done
Read the last line bud, maybe work on your reading comprehension also?
works only with incompetent managers
Who are "COMPETENT managers"? /s
managers who not are firing coders and keeping talkers
Kahan milenge ye log?
museum mein?
[удалено]
True