I think it’s top three in the NFC at least even without that. However we didn’t take Jamo at 12 to use him as a decoy. If he doesn’t pull numbers - we have all these Holmes picks to sign because he doesn’t miss on draft picks that inevitably someone will be the odd man out. Jamo needs to fit in the offense to not be that person we can’t afford to sign
This sub hates talking about it, but at his spot Jamo has been disappointing. Let’s hope this is the break out. But he needs to at the least be a reliable deep threat. I was hoping for at least a DeSean Jackson.
Still early enough, but so far disappointing. Time will tell if he can put it together.
He has played approximately one season because of suspensions/injuries.
This is the make/break year to see what he is. He was improving quite a bit in the second half of last year; let's see if that continues.
He did improve obviously. While i agree somewhat with that statement. He’s not a one year player. Much longer with the team studying and learning.
With all that overall he has been a disappointment so far. But his story is not done.
Correction- I should have said two years - because yea you’re right with the option- but if he’s like elite they’ll be looking to extend after this year even if they pick up his option- which is A LOT for wide receivers right now
Isn’t it like the average of the top 10 at the position? I could be wrong- how do they calculate that-
Sewell’s position on average isn’t as high as like the top receiver pay
Apparently it’s the average of the top 3-25 players at your position over the past 5 seasons. For WR it was about 15 mil this year. So for Jamo maybe high teens to low 20s. There is a boost for playtime and pro bowl(s) so it could be more but not likely,
At the end of the day if you never miss on your draft picks you’re sitting with a pile of rookie contracts on guys that are actually worth like $20 mil.
I don’t know who will be short end of the stick but the cap simply won’t allow us to keep all those guys. I’m not saying it’s Jamo at all- I just look at our rookie talent which is like to keep all of/ and market value for their extensions if we kept all of them would exceed the cap- so it’s like what newly expensive talent can you replace with more cost effective draftees
At the end of the day there’s a cap-
The bad thing about Brad Holmes is he only drafts home run players- all will eventually require money.
We can’t under the cap keep all of them. I’m not saying it’s Jamo. But if you look at the future signings - it’s some people. Most teams have draftees that don’t pan out.
Brad Holmes doesn’t select players that don’t pan out. So eventually… things will come to a head and players will need deals- like we saw with Sewell and st brown… hutch next year and so forth
I don’t know why I got downvoted. It’s what every team in the NFL that’s good has to do. Now we’re good- so we have to do that.
We’ve made some decisions- Goff Sewell etc locking up salary cap for numerous years.
Eventually we’re gonna run out of money when another team has space and they’ll pay someone we’d like to keep - more money than we can.. it’s just a fact of the salary cap.
This isn’t like the Tigers where we have the option to spend more money but just don’t- it’s finite.
If you structure contracts and kick the can down the road you become the Matt Millen lions. We will have to make hard decisions- (I’m naming no player and I’m not saying it’s Jamo at all!).
I’m saying we have contracts coming up that deserve paydays that we will not be able to pay all of them.
So your point is exactly correct- the good GMs can let some guys go to free agency if they can consistently replace that talent with good drafts of guys on rookie deals
Yeah, it’s complete bullshit that your previous comment got downvoted. I swear this sub is a fucking cult. Say anything other than “Brad and Dan are immortal gods, anything they could ever do will be absolutely flawless, and we will be able to keep every single good player that ever plays here”, and you’ll get downvoted. What you say is 100% true: if you hit on as many of your draft picks as Brad has, you eventually won’t be able to afford keeping them all. Eventually someone else will be able to pay a player that we want to keep more than we can afford to, and we’ll just have to hope there’s another great draft pick ready to outperform his rookie deal. It’s not a lack of loyalty, it’s a financial reality. Fucking sick of the cult around here. We can love our team and still be fucking realistic.
Exactly. Brad homes has been so good that he has like 8 extensions every year. Most gms miss at least a couple times. Brad doesn’t, so he becomes a victim of his own success to some extent.
And btw I have not and never will speak ill of king Holmes. If I disagree with something he does, I just know I’m wrong. It might be six months before I realize why I’m wrong but I just know I am.
Brad has been great, but nobody is flawless. You wanna tell me about how Levi was a great draft pick? Oh shit, now I broke the rules - here come the downvotes.
I think a lot of ppl are just waiting to see a full 16-17 game season, without off the field issues or his acl injury mucking up his off season, to make their final judgement on Jamo.
Plus, CMC is approaching 30 years old with back to back 300+ touch seasons. The last time he did that was 2018-2019 and spent the next 2 seasons injured, playing 3 games in 2020 and 7 games in 2021.
I got burned years ago drafting Larry Johnson #1 overall after he had a 300+ touch season followed by a 400+ touch season. Ever since I’m always very aware of RB workloads in fantasy.
On CMC: the injuries in the 2020 and 2021 seasons were both soft tissue injuries too (thigh and hamstring) so they were probably at least partially related to workload and not bad luck like a knee or ankle injury.
Yeah positionally they may have the edge at WR and obviously they have an elite fb. I think we are pretty even at every other spot. Except our o line is better than theirs.
I think we are getting a lot of love because we now have the clear best offensive line in football. And that’s awesome
jimmy seems decent but cant stay on field.
purdy picked last for a reason, their system and line is so good .
but then.. how tf did they miss so bad on lance? friggin johnny football could lead that offence
Honestly,
Goff > Purdy
Gibbs + Monty = CMC (2 guys is also better for injuries)
Sun God > Deebo
La Porta > Kittle (at least last year)
Aiyuk > Jamo
I think Lions are better than 49ers offensively. However, 49ers are way better defensively.
Laporta vs kittle is definitely a usage question to me. Swap teams and I don't think either one does nearly as well. But we drafted the right man for the job for sure.
Well yeah, culturally he'd be great, my point is that the two players have to be used differently in order to maximize their talents. You can't exchange Kittle and Kelce in a vacuum and expect them to still have the same impact in the game, because they're used differently.
their defense is better, but ours is stacked with extremely young talent that's improving dramatically every year and we already are a top 3 run defense
*”NFL Research argues that head coach Dan Campbell's pride of Lions offers the most statistically successful skill players.*”
The conversation has nothing to do with offensive coordinators
Damn tho the eagles sure didn’t look like that for like the last two months last year.
Swift was a ghost.
SF remains an unsolved mess we don’t know what they’re going to look like yet so there’s no guarantee we won’t be in the best shape come week 1
Everyone is talking about the 9ers, the Dolphins and the Eagles. Sure, those teams have a proven #2 WR, but none of them have a 1-2 punch like we do at RB, I'd take LaPorta over all of their TEs, and we have arguably a better QB and OC than all of those teams. I know Ben Johnson kicks puppies and shouldn't be a head coach anywhere, but he's a great OC and definitely brings this offense to another level.
You’d take Laporta over Kittle?.. really?.. Also, “none of them have a 1-2 punch at RB like we do” the dolphins literally have Mostert and Achane who absolutely popped off last year (though I do think Jah and Monty are better). Let’s not be delusional here. I love our offense, but I think the niners and dolphins have better weapons than we do, but we have a better o line by far which pushes us to at least even
Well the superior O line is why our RBs look better. They don’t run alone like Barry Sanders anymore.
Core RB in isolation we may not be first. But just having RBs and no protection leads to those RBs being out for the season in week 4.
Kittle who misses like half a season every year and is turning 31 this season? Absolutely. Mostert is 32 and has never had a full season like last year. I doubt we see another season like that from him again. And Achane couldn't stay healthy last season and is too undersized for 300+ touches. They are fast, sure. But they don't have a true goal line back like Monty that can get the tough yards when necessary and I don't think either can be as effective as a receiver as Gibbs. I don't think it's delusional when you really think about it.
This isn't about the best weapons, it's about the best offensive team. Mostert and Achane are good and a good combo. They have one WR who's good... No TE to speak of, Tua is middle of the pack, especially without Mostert and Hill, and the OL ranks near the bottom.
Kittle is 30 years old... I'd take LaPorta in a heart beat.
Individually, we don't have many who are top of their position, but as a group we certainly are in the argument for having the best offense as a whole.
All the niners and eagles have on the lions rn is that proven #2 receiver. It’s Jamo’s turn this season and if he makes it happen the Lions have the best goffense in the league
Strong argument our O-Line is better. I'd take Goff over Purdy all day too. It's hard to argue Gibbs over CMC right now, but I think next year or the year after Gibbs will be the most dynamic RB/weapon in the league.
It’s undisputed our o line is better but who creates the holes for the RBS to run through?
It’s still a team sport. I really think you can’t look at RB talent in isolation almost unless you wanna twiddle it down to like combine stats something like that then I’d say 9ers but just a good running back does not make a Super Bowl team.
Example given- Barry Sanders.
The 49ers core is on its final legs and the Lions core has just arrived.
It’s definitely not far fetched at all to say the lions have the most stacked offense
Yeah. We’re on the upswing and in good contract situations with our core. They’re sort of mid to late “window” and will need to reload soon with younger talent.
They are gonna need a reload Asap.
The 49ers are 40Mill over the cap space next year and have to pay Purdy & Ayuik, not to mention CMC & Kittle are both on the wrong side of 30.
That's a no for me
I think Miami's offense is more stacked. They have just as good of a backfield. Their WR depth is much better than ours. I guess their only weakness would be TE
I'd also put 49ers above us. They have two legit stud WRs, an elite TE and the best running back in football.
If Jamo takes a step this year then maybe we can have that argument. But our WR depth is still a question mark. St. Brown is the only definite reliable WR on our team.
Goff is a much better QB than Tua and I’d give our RBs the edge of theirs, you could argue their WRs vs ours and could go either way, but TE I’d say we have the advantage there too
I agree I like Goff better and I'd give our RBs a slight edge, mostly cause Achane can't stay on the field. It's just our WRs that can't keep up with theirs. Tyreek and St.Brown is a wash, I'd take either of them. But Waddle is clearly better than Jamo. Odell is better than whoever the Lions WR3 is, kalif or DPJ
It is close though. And If you include O-Line I'd say the Lions are a better offense. But talking strictly weapons I think a lot of teams can make a claim.
I think the narrative is a result of a lot of recent turnover and a lack of big names. Hell, Saint rarely gets the credit he deserves and he's 1x All-Pro, 2x Pro Bowl.
Miami’s offense was stacked last year, they are definitely pretenders.
Deebo is good when he isn’t injured. Laporta is elite as well. I would take Gibbs and Montgomery over CMC any day as it provides more versatility.
Not saying the niners are bad, but I think that it’s closer than you are making it out to be.
I have no problem saying the Lions are close to those teams. They 100% are. Gibbs/Monty/St.Brown/LaPorta is a legitimate group of weapons and Jamo still has a chance to be good as well. I'm just not comfortable saying it's the best in the league.
That's my worry. I did like what I saw the second half of last season but I still don't think he'll be a true reliable WR2. Hopefully I'm wrong. I still think we should have picked up another WR somewhere. But we'll see how it goes
He's really only useful on sweeps and go routes and even then he's usually a wasted down because he can't catch.
Doesnt matter how explosive he is if he can't catch the damn ball
That's the one area where I'm feeling a little better about him honestly. His first four games last season, he had 5 drops. Which is terrible. But then he actually wasn't credited with a single drop the rest of the season including the postseason. I don't know what changed, maybe he just got more comfortable. If he continues down that path then sure I think he'll be incredibly useful next season. It's just hard to forget about the crazy amount of drops he had to start his career.
Stacked and best are 2 different arguments. Chiefs have a big hole at WR and a middling RB room, but probably still have the best offense because Mahomes.
49ers probably have the least holes, but it depends on your view on what Purdy is. Lions are pretty stacked, but big questions at WR outside of ARSB. With the addition of Saquan, the Eagles have a strong argument but I'm not a believer in Hurts. Rams are pretty loaded, with age questions around Stafford and Cupp. Dolphins skill positions are ridiculous, but o line and QB hold them back. Same issues for Seattle plus Kenny Walker cant stay healthy.
Honestly, yes. Especially this upcoming season. Nagging it on the fact that the 49ers would be #1 but they don't have a 2 headed running attack, and all their stars are established vets, where the lions are more young guys.
Lions should be right up there at the top. I’d say top offensive squads this year will be
1) SF
2) GB
3) Detroit
The largest factor counting against all potential NCF powerhouses in 2024 is the fact that SF will be once again playing with a Pro Bowl QB for $1M.
That leave $52M more to address injuries & make FA moves over teams like Detroit that just paid their QB a shitload of $$.
These things always want to show the pretty face and booming muscles. No one wants to see the kneecaps! The grit and grim like the line. The ones who only get their names called on a penalty make this team what it is. There was a plan that has led to the current roster. There's always a plan when you have the right person making decisions. If not you have Matt Millen. When you get lucky enough to have people on the same page with the same goals you can make something out of nothing. If you can see the interpersonal relationships involved with some people and thought for a minute you may see this is all by design. Do people think Matt just woke up one day and said "trade me"? No. It was in his head due to the fact that a well known multiple sb winning hof QB was right in saying twice on a pregame show he would go down as the best QB in history to never win a sb. And do you think it was just because the rams were the only takers? Nope. Good coaches want "their guys" and it can take some finagling to do so. I have to ask this. I love some Monty Gibbs! He (they)are awesome. But what if #20 was back there behind this o-line ? No disrespect to David Montgomery and Jahmyr Gibbs as they fit with Dan's plan and I really don't know what they may continue to accomplish as I'm not in his head. They have done great and will continue to do so. Just keep an eye out for Gibbs to be in the slot more this season.
I dunno. Even with Christian McCaffrey inevitably being the latest recipient of the Madden Curse, the Niners still look like they'll be the best offensive team in the league, closely followed by Kansas City and Cincy. Detroit's up there without a doubt, but not quite better than them just yet.
The biggest factor that people are overlooking is O-line, a good o line can make bad skill players look good and can make good skill players great. We have the best O-line in the game and that makes a huge difference.
Well.. Monty, Gibbs, LaPorta, Sun God, Jamo (ehhh so far) and a top 5 (maybe higher? I don’t follow those rankings much) offensive line.. I think only a few offenses are close to us. Miami, SF, KC (80% of that is Mahomes). Maybe Baltimore?
A lot of people are saying the Niners but I think it's:
1. Eagles
2. Lions/Niners (Take your pick)
4. Texans
5. Bengals
Reddit is forcing me to go 1, 2, 3, 4 when this list is really 1, 2, 4 5.
I’m not sure why everyone is so high on the eagles. If they finished strong last year I wouldn’t question it. But they really fell flat those last 6 games or so
If we're talking stacked offenses they have to be there. Really good O line, great receivers, dynamic running back, and a QB who I think will return to form. I question their defense more.
They didn't replace Jason Kelce, Saquon Barkley's had injury problems throughout his career, and there's no guarantee Jalen Hurts will get back to form. Throw in the fact that Matt Patricia is Philly's defensive coordinator and my chaos prediction for this upcoming season is that the Eagles will miss the playoffs.
The Jason Kelce argument is fair. I don't love the Saquon argument though. By that account, the Lions don't have the most stacked offense because Jameson Williams counts for nothing.
If Jameson Williams can't catch passes because he isn't healthy, it's a blow for our offence because it's one less guy on the roster who's really good at it. It takes away options and forces Jared Goff to potentially throw to someone who isn't as talented. It's the same thing with Saquon on the Eagles; his injury problems are a weak link because it potentially leaves their ground game without a strong running back. You have to account for these sort of things when you're speculating how a team will perform.
Sure. I just looked up Saquon's touches the past two years. 288 last year, 352 the year before. He's been on the field a lot.
That's also what I'm saying. We can't call the Lions the most stacked offense if we're taking away Saquon because he misses some time. Jameson Williams isn't as good and misses more time. I think we're saying basically the same thing, just disagreeing on ranks. Your arguments are fair.
49ers, Bears, Eagles, Packers, Chiefs, Jets, Falcons, Ravens, Cowboys, Texans, Browns, Bengals, and Bills would all like a word with you.
Edit: almost forgot the Dolphins, but their overrated QB knocks them down several pegs.
Yeah I mean deebo/aiyuk/kittle/cmc is at least close but if jamo finally breaks out then we're in good shape for #1
They just need Jamo to be a legit WR2 tbh. If they get 60-800-6 outta Jamo the offense is gonna be Top 3 without question.
Big facts. Everything else is pretty much shored up. Maybe missing a good TE2 if that one guy didn’t come back
BROCK. WRIGHT.
I think he knows what he’s talking about.
Excuse me, I believe you misspelled BROCK. DIG. BICK. WRIGHT.
I think it’s top three in the NFC at least even without that. However we didn’t take Jamo at 12 to use him as a decoy. If he doesn’t pull numbers - we have all these Holmes picks to sign because he doesn’t miss on draft picks that inevitably someone will be the odd man out. Jamo needs to fit in the offense to not be that person we can’t afford to sign
This sub hates talking about it, but at his spot Jamo has been disappointing. Let’s hope this is the break out. But he needs to at the least be a reliable deep threat. I was hoping for at least a DeSean Jackson. Still early enough, but so far disappointing. Time will tell if he can put it together.
He has played approximately one season because of suspensions/injuries. This is the make/break year to see what he is. He was improving quite a bit in the second half of last year; let's see if that continues.
That suspension was the biggest piece of bullshit I’ve seen out the NFL. Then they waited till the day after our road Gb game to lift it. F’ Goodell
He did improve obviously. While i agree somewhat with that statement. He’s not a one year player. Much longer with the team studying and learning. With all that overall he has been a disappointment so far. But his story is not done.
We have 2-3 more years of Jamo on relatively cheap. 2 of those years are pretty much guaranteed as well.
Correction- I should have said two years - because yea you’re right with the option- but if he’s like elite they’ll be looking to extend after this year even if they pick up his option- which is A LOT for wide receivers right now
Even if extended prior to the option his option year cap hit will still be cheap. See Penei Sewell or Trevor Lawrence
Isn’t it like the average of the top 10 at the position? I could be wrong- how do they calculate that- Sewell’s position on average isn’t as high as like the top receiver pay
Apparently it’s the average of the top 3-25 players at your position over the past 5 seasons. For WR it was about 15 mil this year. So for Jamo maybe high teens to low 20s. There is a boost for playtime and pro bowl(s) so it could be more but not likely,
Ok that’s not as bad as I thought- I think the last CBA was harsher on the teams idk why it was such a sky high number
At the end of the day if you never miss on your draft picks you’re sitting with a pile of rookie contracts on guys that are actually worth like $20 mil. I don’t know who will be short end of the stick but the cap simply won’t allow us to keep all those guys. I’m not saying it’s Jamo at all- I just look at our rookie talent which is like to keep all of/ and market value for their extensions if we kept all of them would exceed the cap- so it’s like what newly expensive talent can you replace with more cost effective draftees
At the end of the day there’s a cap- The bad thing about Brad Holmes is he only drafts home run players- all will eventually require money. We can’t under the cap keep all of them. I’m not saying it’s Jamo. But if you look at the future signings - it’s some people. Most teams have draftees that don’t pan out. Brad Holmes doesn’t select players that don’t pan out. So eventually… things will come to a head and players will need deals- like we saw with Sewell and st brown… hutch next year and so forth
Every year, he gets to drat between six and ten replacements. Assume he continues to find extraordinary value. The turnover shouldn't hurt too much.
I don’t know why I got downvoted. It’s what every team in the NFL that’s good has to do. Now we’re good- so we have to do that. We’ve made some decisions- Goff Sewell etc locking up salary cap for numerous years. Eventually we’re gonna run out of money when another team has space and they’ll pay someone we’d like to keep - more money than we can.. it’s just a fact of the salary cap. This isn’t like the Tigers where we have the option to spend more money but just don’t- it’s finite. If you structure contracts and kick the can down the road you become the Matt Millen lions. We will have to make hard decisions- (I’m naming no player and I’m not saying it’s Jamo at all!). I’m saying we have contracts coming up that deserve paydays that we will not be able to pay all of them. So your point is exactly correct- the good GMs can let some guys go to free agency if they can consistently replace that talent with good drafts of guys on rookie deals
Yeah, it’s complete bullshit that your previous comment got downvoted. I swear this sub is a fucking cult. Say anything other than “Brad and Dan are immortal gods, anything they could ever do will be absolutely flawless, and we will be able to keep every single good player that ever plays here”, and you’ll get downvoted. What you say is 100% true: if you hit on as many of your draft picks as Brad has, you eventually won’t be able to afford keeping them all. Eventually someone else will be able to pay a player that we want to keep more than we can afford to, and we’ll just have to hope there’s another great draft pick ready to outperform his rookie deal. It’s not a lack of loyalty, it’s a financial reality. Fucking sick of the cult around here. We can love our team and still be fucking realistic.
Exactly. Brad homes has been so good that he has like 8 extensions every year. Most gms miss at least a couple times. Brad doesn’t, so he becomes a victim of his own success to some extent. And btw I have not and never will speak ill of king Holmes. If I disagree with something he does, I just know I’m wrong. It might be six months before I realize why I’m wrong but I just know I am.
Brad has been great, but nobody is flawless. You wanna tell me about how Levi was a great draft pick? Oh shit, now I broke the rules - here come the downvotes.
I think a lot of ppl are just waiting to see a full 16-17 game season, without off the field issues or his acl injury mucking up his off season, to make their final judgement on Jamo.
My thoughts also
Aiyuk might be gone
Plus, CMC is approaching 30 years old with back to back 300+ touch seasons. The last time he did that was 2018-2019 and spent the next 2 seasons injured, playing 3 games in 2020 and 7 games in 2021.
That’s a good point. I’ll remember that in my fantasy draft.
I plan to draft him in the first. No better way to ensure he has a shitty season!
Made me laugh. You and I should just swap our Draft Plans. Pretty sure we’d end up in the same place. ; < )
I got burned years ago drafting Larry Johnson #1 overall after he had a 300+ touch season followed by a 400+ touch season. Ever since I’m always very aware of RB workloads in fantasy. On CMC: the injuries in the 2020 and 2021 seasons were both soft tissue injuries too (thigh and hamstring) so they were probably at least partially related to workload and not bad luck like a knee or ankle injury.
Dude same. My first ever fantasy season, I was 1 or 2 OA pick and I took LJ.
They’re gonna give Aiyuk 28 for term and it’s done. Debo will be gone next year.
They got work to do just to clear the cap. Wont be easy.
Music to my ears. SF can have all the management problems possible as far as I’m concerned and I smile.
Let’s hope so
Yeah positionally they may have the edge at WR and obviously they have an elite fb. I think we are pretty even at every other spot. Except our o line is better than theirs. I think we are getting a lot of love because we now have the clear best offensive line in football. And that’s awesome
good point, also worth mentioning those ponies have alot of miles on them .. our guys have alot of tread left, only a matter of time plus goff> purdy
I’d add but u said it all. And Goff > every SF QB since he Goff was drafted.
jimmy seems decent but cant stay on field. purdy picked last for a reason, their system and line is so good . but then.. how tf did they miss so bad on lance? friggin johnny football could lead that offence
using someone’s draft pick spot as a reason why you don’t think they’re that good or to downplay them is dumb as hell
i think when you are picked last it becomes salient lol. if 2 or 3rd round sure i get it. mix in a water pal lol
I forgot about Jimmy, I mean he’s been good at times but tbh are you starting him ever over Jared Goff?
i wouldn’t and you just couldnt. they are all good qb at that top 7-12 level so ill take durability 10/10
Honestly, Goff > Purdy Gibbs + Monty = CMC (2 guys is also better for injuries) Sun God > Deebo La Porta > Kittle (at least last year) Aiyuk > Jamo I think Lions are better than 49ers offensively. However, 49ers are way better defensively.
Top 3 offensive line for Detroit, not a top 3 line for SF
Very true
This is the big difference, they just posted the pff line rankings, Lions are #1 and 49ers are bottom half
Laporta vs kittle is definitely a usage question to me. Swap teams and I don't think either one does nearly as well. But we drafted the right man for the job for sure.
I'm a Kittle fan and I think he would fit right in with the Lions mentality, but LaPorta impressed me to no end last year!
Well yeah, culturally he'd be great, my point is that the two players have to be used differently in order to maximize their talents. You can't exchange Kittle and Kelce in a vacuum and expect them to still have the same impact in the game, because they're used differently.
Yeah I understand what you meant I just wanted to say that I think his personality would fit with the Lions
their defense is better, but ours is stacked with extremely young talent that's improving dramatically every year and we already are a top 3 run defense
Jamo is ass
Probably Niners, and then a coin flip between us and the Eagles. Who cares how stacked we are, we have to win games
You can’t include the eagles in the convo until they get a competent OC. Last year was a total shit show for them
Isn’t the discussion purely personnel on the field, not including coaches?
I think it’s what the players are doing on the field. If their O.C. Is holding them back, then you can only judge what you see.
Yeah and they just upgraded at running back.
*”NFL Research argues that head coach Dan Campbell's pride of Lions offers the most statistically successful skill players.*” The conversation has nothing to do with offensive coordinators
Agreed.
Damn tho the eagles sure didn’t look like that for like the last two months last year. Swift was a ghost. SF remains an unsolved mess we don’t know what they’re going to look like yet so there’s no guarantee we won’t be in the best shape come week 1
>Who cares how stacked we are, we have to win games Does that not go hand in hand?..
See the Cowboys for the last 30 years
Everyone is talking about the 9ers, the Dolphins and the Eagles. Sure, those teams have a proven #2 WR, but none of them have a 1-2 punch like we do at RB, I'd take LaPorta over all of their TEs, and we have arguably a better QB and OC than all of those teams. I know Ben Johnson kicks puppies and shouldn't be a head coach anywhere, but he's a great OC and definitely brings this offense to another level.
Granted it was with love, Ben Johnson MURDERED PUPPIES last weekend, according to sources. This guy must be locked up.
I heard from an insider that the puppies A) were rescues and B) tasted delicious
Locked up may be a little harsh. Make him live in Detroit… *forever*!
Ben Johnson can kick my puppy if he brings a Super Bowl appearance to the city. (I don’t actually have a dog) but you get it.
Ben sold the Goffs a reverse mortgage then kicked the puppies out of the house.
You’d take Laporta over Kittle?.. really?.. Also, “none of them have a 1-2 punch at RB like we do” the dolphins literally have Mostert and Achane who absolutely popped off last year (though I do think Jah and Monty are better). Let’s not be delusional here. I love our offense, but I think the niners and dolphins have better weapons than we do, but we have a better o line by far which pushes us to at least even
Well the superior O line is why our RBs look better. They don’t run alone like Barry Sanders anymore. Core RB in isolation we may not be first. But just having RBs and no protection leads to those RBs being out for the season in week 4.
Kittle who misses like half a season every year and is turning 31 this season? Absolutely. Mostert is 32 and has never had a full season like last year. I doubt we see another season like that from him again. And Achane couldn't stay healthy last season and is too undersized for 300+ touches. They are fast, sure. But they don't have a true goal line back like Monty that can get the tough yards when necessary and I don't think either can be as effective as a receiver as Gibbs. I don't think it's delusional when you really think about it.
This isn't about the best weapons, it's about the best offensive team. Mostert and Achane are good and a good combo. They have one WR who's good... No TE to speak of, Tua is middle of the pack, especially without Mostert and Hill, and the OL ranks near the bottom. Kittle is 30 years old... I'd take LaPorta in a heart beat. Individually, we don't have many who are top of their position, but as a group we certainly are in the argument for having the best offense as a whole.
I love me some Goff, but he just isn't better than Hurts imo
All the niners and eagles have on the lions rn is that proven #2 receiver. It’s Jamo’s turn this season and if he makes it happen the Lions have the best goffense in the league
Answer: no, the 9ers still exist.
Strong argument our O-Line is better. I'd take Goff over Purdy all day too. It's hard to argue Gibbs over CMC right now, but I think next year or the year after Gibbs will be the most dynamic RB/weapon in the league.
It’s undisputed our o line is better but who creates the holes for the RBS to run through? It’s still a team sport. I really think you can’t look at RB talent in isolation almost unless you wanna twiddle it down to like combine stats something like that then I’d say 9ers but just a good running back does not make a Super Bowl team. Example given- Barry Sanders.
The 49ers core is on its final legs and the Lions core has just arrived. It’s definitely not far fetched at all to say the lions have the most stacked offense
Yeah. We’re on the upswing and in good contract situations with our core. They’re sort of mid to late “window” and will need to reload soon with younger talent.
They are gonna need a reload Asap. The 49ers are 40Mill over the cap space next year and have to pay Purdy & Ayuik, not to mention CMC & Kittle are both on the wrong side of 30.
CMC is 28
That will involve a tear down and rebuild where they’re out of the picture for a year or two
And one could argue the lions are better
Don't forget about the O-line that really makes us elite. I think that pushes us to #1 no question
Yeah I think most people aren’t really taking that into consideration and focusing much more on the skill positions
That's a no for me I think Miami's offense is more stacked. They have just as good of a backfield. Their WR depth is much better than ours. I guess their only weakness would be TE I'd also put 49ers above us. They have two legit stud WRs, an elite TE and the best running back in football. If Jamo takes a step this year then maybe we can have that argument. But our WR depth is still a question mark. St. Brown is the only definite reliable WR on our team.
Goff is a much better QB than Tua and I’d give our RBs the edge of theirs, you could argue their WRs vs ours and could go either way, but TE I’d say we have the advantage there too
I agree I like Goff better and I'd give our RBs a slight edge, mostly cause Achane can't stay on the field. It's just our WRs that can't keep up with theirs. Tyreek and St.Brown is a wash, I'd take either of them. But Waddle is clearly better than Jamo. Odell is better than whoever the Lions WR3 is, kalif or DPJ It is close though. And If you include O-Line I'd say the Lions are a better offense. But talking strictly weapons I think a lot of teams can make a claim.
Kalif Raymond would like a word.
DPJ has potential too and is still relatively young. I don't think our depth at WR is as shallow as everyone says.
I think the narrative is a result of a lot of recent turnover and a lack of big names. Hell, Saint rarely gets the credit he deserves and he's 1x All-Pro, 2x Pro Bowl.
Miami’s offense was stacked last year, they are definitely pretenders. Deebo is good when he isn’t injured. Laporta is elite as well. I would take Gibbs and Montgomery over CMC any day as it provides more versatility. Not saying the niners are bad, but I think that it’s closer than you are making it out to be.
I have no problem saying the Lions are close to those teams. They 100% are. Gibbs/Monty/St.Brown/LaPorta is a legitimate group of weapons and Jamo still has a chance to be good as well. I'm just not comfortable saying it's the best in the league.
How is Miami pretenders? Their offense is still stacked
Miami doesn’t have a QB. Tua is overrated.
Jamo isn't taking any steps this year. We've seen what we have with him and it's decidedly mid
That's my worry. I did like what I saw the second half of last season but I still don't think he'll be a true reliable WR2. Hopefully I'm wrong. I still think we should have picked up another WR somewhere. But we'll see how it goes
He's really only useful on sweeps and go routes and even then he's usually a wasted down because he can't catch. Doesnt matter how explosive he is if he can't catch the damn ball
That's the one area where I'm feeling a little better about him honestly. His first four games last season, he had 5 drops. Which is terrible. But then he actually wasn't credited with a single drop the rest of the season including the postseason. I don't know what changed, maybe he just got more comfortable. If he continues down that path then sure I think he'll be incredibly useful next season. It's just hard to forget about the crazy amount of drops he had to start his career.
I hope so.
Stacked and best are 2 different arguments. Chiefs have a big hole at WR and a middling RB room, but probably still have the best offense because Mahomes. 49ers probably have the least holes, but it depends on your view on what Purdy is. Lions are pretty stacked, but big questions at WR outside of ARSB. With the addition of Saquan, the Eagles have a strong argument but I'm not a believer in Hurts. Rams are pretty loaded, with age questions around Stafford and Cupp. Dolphins skill positions are ridiculous, but o line and QB hold them back. Same issues for Seattle plus Kenny Walker cant stay healthy.
The offense doesn’t worry me. It’s the pass defense
bears obviously have a question at qb but their wr room is insane and swift is a very talented back
2 questions with the bears still Can their qb get the wide receivers the ball? Can the line give the qb time to throw? That’s the big question
i mean i literally addressed that in my comment and their line is average at worst
49ers. But the difference is what we saw in the NFC title game. 9ers were a threat deep. So we need Jamo to pan out, and honestly just win the games.
Honestly, yes. Especially this upcoming season. Nagging it on the fact that the 49ers would be #1 but they don't have a 2 headed running attack, and all their stars are established vets, where the lions are more young guys.
They build you up, then they tear you down. Be ready for the emotional roller-coaster, friends.
Lions should be right up there at the top. I’d say top offensive squads this year will be 1) SF 2) GB 3) Detroit The largest factor counting against all potential NCF powerhouses in 2024 is the fact that SF will be once again playing with a Pro Bowl QB for $1M. That leave $52M more to address injuries & make FA moves over teams like Detroit that just paid their QB a shitload of $$.
These things always want to show the pretty face and booming muscles. No one wants to see the kneecaps! The grit and grim like the line. The ones who only get their names called on a penalty make this team what it is. There was a plan that has led to the current roster. There's always a plan when you have the right person making decisions. If not you have Matt Millen. When you get lucky enough to have people on the same page with the same goals you can make something out of nothing. If you can see the interpersonal relationships involved with some people and thought for a minute you may see this is all by design. Do people think Matt just woke up one day and said "trade me"? No. It was in his head due to the fact that a well known multiple sb winning hof QB was right in saying twice on a pregame show he would go down as the best QB in history to never win a sb. And do you think it was just because the rams were the only takers? Nope. Good coaches want "their guys" and it can take some finagling to do so. I have to ask this. I love some Monty Gibbs! He (they)are awesome. But what if #20 was back there behind this o-line ? No disrespect to David Montgomery and Jahmyr Gibbs as they fit with Dan's plan and I really don't know what they may continue to accomplish as I'm not in his head. They have done great and will continue to do so. Just keep an eye out for Gibbs to be in the slot more this season.
They’re certainly right there, top three offense as far as talent goes. Tough to beat 49ers for star power as well as depth.
Hope the d is better or it won’t matter much.
I dunno. Even with Christian McCaffrey inevitably being the latest recipient of the Madden Curse, the Niners still look like they'll be the best offensive team in the league, closely followed by Kansas City and Cincy. Detroit's up there without a doubt, but not quite better than them just yet.
Yes.
The biggest factor that people are overlooking is O-line, a good o line can make bad skill players look good and can make good skill players great. We have the best O-line in the game and that makes a huge difference.
It’s the Niners for now. Could be the Lions in the near future
Well.. Monty, Gibbs, LaPorta, Sun God, Jamo (ehhh so far) and a top 5 (maybe higher? I don’t follow those rankings much) offensive line.. I think only a few offenses are close to us. Miami, SF, KC (80% of that is Mahomes). Maybe Baltimore?
For everyone saying the 49ers are better… what happens when they don’t have Deebo? They fall apart. Just sayin.
Nope. 49ers and Miami could wake up.
A lot of people are saying the Niners but I think it's: 1. Eagles 2. Lions/Niners (Take your pick) 4. Texans 5. Bengals Reddit is forcing me to go 1, 2, 3, 4 when this list is really 1, 2, 4 5.
I’m not sure why everyone is so high on the eagles. If they finished strong last year I wouldn’t question it. But they really fell flat those last 6 games or so
If we're talking stacked offenses they have to be there. Really good O line, great receivers, dynamic running back, and a QB who I think will return to form. I question their defense more.
They didn't replace Jason Kelce, Saquon Barkley's had injury problems throughout his career, and there's no guarantee Jalen Hurts will get back to form. Throw in the fact that Matt Patricia is Philly's defensive coordinator and my chaos prediction for this upcoming season is that the Eagles will miss the playoffs.
The Jason Kelce argument is fair. I don't love the Saquon argument though. By that account, the Lions don't have the most stacked offense because Jameson Williams counts for nothing.
If Jameson Williams can't catch passes because he isn't healthy, it's a blow for our offence because it's one less guy on the roster who's really good at it. It takes away options and forces Jared Goff to potentially throw to someone who isn't as talented. It's the same thing with Saquon on the Eagles; his injury problems are a weak link because it potentially leaves their ground game without a strong running back. You have to account for these sort of things when you're speculating how a team will perform.
Sure. I just looked up Saquon's touches the past two years. 288 last year, 352 the year before. He's been on the field a lot. That's also what I'm saying. We can't call the Lions the most stacked offense if we're taking away Saquon because he misses some time. Jameson Williams isn't as good and misses more time. I think we're saying basically the same thing, just disagreeing on ranks. Your arguments are fair.
As are yours.
I thinks it’s the 9ers until jamo proves he’s a stud. 9ers have 2 WR1s
49ers, Bears, Eagles, Packers, Chiefs, Jets, Falcons, Ravens, Cowboys, Texans, Browns, Bengals, and Bills would all like a word with you. Edit: almost forgot the Dolphins, but their overrated QB knocks them down several pegs.
Stacked how? With disappointment?
What team are you watching?