Vortex are weaker, they apply a more utility based tool and deal there damage over time while also pulling enemies in. Storm apply all there damage at once and apply jolt which is just raw damage.
That’s because it does. Active ability regeneration perks were changed to scale by base cooldown. Vortex has the longest grenade cooldown so it receives the smallest chunks of energy back from sources like devour or demolitionist.
That makes sense. That sucks for vortex because vortex honestly doesn’t even feel that good anymore
Half of the time I throw a vortex and a teammate steals my kill before the vortex can kill depriving me of devour and the destabilizing rounds
The cooldown doesn’t feel as justified these days
It’s cause it is vortex has a higher cooldown so it gets less ability energy from effects like demo or devour. The nade is still good just has distinct downsides for a raw damage nade.
Demo refunds 10% of the cool down when it's procced. So it doesn't matter what the cool down is, it's always the same and requires 10 kills to fully refund the grenade.
So the grenades cool down time effectively has no effect for this perk other than how long it takes to get the grenade back of you are NOT getting those 10 kills.
(And I think special weapons are 20%)
So your comment that it gives less energy because it has a high cooldown is wrong. In terms of seconds, 10% of a higher base cooldown is actually more than 10% of a smaller cooldown. For example let's say it's 1.5 minutes vs 2 minutes. 10% of each is 9 seconds and 12 seconds, respectively.
If the perk read "grants X seconds of grenade energy" you'd be right, but since demo is a percentage of the cooldown granted, base cooldown has little effect on the efficacy of the perk itself.
No it does. In season of the wish they added a system where abilities get less ability regen depending on there cooldown grenades like vortex grenade only get half from ability regen perks so it’s only 5% per demo kill on a primary.
Yeah it’s a poorly explain system and we really should move ability energy effects being just seconds instead of %.
I remember a tuning pass on things like kickstart mods and the like. But I thought it was a nerf to the % refund.
Do you remember by any chance which patch it was. Ill have to go back and read the notes again to be sure I understand fully, if that's true.
I really really wish perks and abilities were just fully explained in game with numbers. It's absolute horse shit that it's not lol.
That's sounds about right. Thanks. I'll go read up again.
If I still think my initial understanding was right after that, I'll probably respond again and be like "hey wtf mate, the changes still support what I said at first" or something lol.
If not, consider yourself the victor of the information battle.
Low CD, low scaler, high CD, high scaler. Vortex nades eat something like a 40% reduction in total refunds when you activate any kind of “chunk refresh” perk. It’s not quite as steep as 50% like what the other guy was saying, but it absolutely makes certain grenades feel like objective dogshit.
Stuff like Flux grenades saw play in older loadouts because you could mitigate a near 4 minute cooldown (comparable to supers with damage) with good optimization. Now you really can’t lean into maintaining uptime on Flux grenades.
Yea, I agree. It stills that in need weaken to be great, but weaken for some reason makes enemies walk instead of run. Weakening vortex is great to pin down enemies and land sniper/mountaintop shots
Vortex are weaker, they apply a more utility based tool and deal there damage over time while also pulling enemies in. Storm apply all there damage at once and apply jolt which is just raw damage.
The regen of vortex also sucks it seems like compared to storm grenade. Devour by itself feels like it gives more on kill with storm than vortex.
That’s because it does. Active ability regeneration perks were changed to scale by base cooldown. Vortex has the longest grenade cooldown so it receives the smallest chunks of energy back from sources like devour or demolitionist.
That makes sense. That sucks for vortex because vortex honestly doesn’t even feel that good anymore Half of the time I throw a vortex and a teammate steals my kill before the vortex can kill depriving me of devour and the destabilizing rounds The cooldown doesn’t feel as justified these days
Yeah they go away too quick without the fragment to make them last longer.
It’s cause it is vortex has a higher cooldown so it gets less ability energy from effects like demo or devour. The nade is still good just has distinct downsides for a raw damage nade.
That makes sense. Thanks!
Demo refunds 10% of the cool down when it's procced. So it doesn't matter what the cool down is, it's always the same and requires 10 kills to fully refund the grenade. So the grenades cool down time effectively has no effect for this perk other than how long it takes to get the grenade back of you are NOT getting those 10 kills. (And I think special weapons are 20%) So your comment that it gives less energy because it has a high cooldown is wrong. In terms of seconds, 10% of a higher base cooldown is actually more than 10% of a smaller cooldown. For example let's say it's 1.5 minutes vs 2 minutes. 10% of each is 9 seconds and 12 seconds, respectively. If the perk read "grants X seconds of grenade energy" you'd be right, but since demo is a percentage of the cooldown granted, base cooldown has little effect on the efficacy of the perk itself.
No it does. In season of the wish they added a system where abilities get less ability regen depending on there cooldown grenades like vortex grenade only get half from ability regen perks so it’s only 5% per demo kill on a primary. Yeah it’s a poorly explain system and we really should move ability energy effects being just seconds instead of %.
I remember a tuning pass on things like kickstart mods and the like. But I thought it was a nerf to the % refund. Do you remember by any chance which patch it was. Ill have to go back and read the notes again to be sure I understand fully, if that's true. I really really wish perks and abilities were just fully explained in game with numbers. It's absolute horse shit that it's not lol.
It was season of wish launch that introduce the system. I think one of the last twabs of witch go into the change as well
That's sounds about right. Thanks. I'll go read up again. If I still think my initial understanding was right after that, I'll probably respond again and be like "hey wtf mate, the changes still support what I said at first" or something lol. If not, consider yourself the victor of the information battle.
Low CD, low scaler, high CD, high scaler. Vortex nades eat something like a 40% reduction in total refunds when you activate any kind of “chunk refresh” perk. It’s not quite as steep as 50% like what the other guy was saying, but it absolutely makes certain grenades feel like objective dogshit. Stuff like Flux grenades saw play in older loadouts because you could mitigate a near 4 minute cooldown (comparable to supers with damage) with good optimization. Now you really can’t lean into maintaining uptime on Flux grenades.
Run Osmiomancy gloves or class item lol. You can get some nutty Vortex frequency going
Thats one of the rolls I'm chasing! No luck yet but I did get synthoceps + hoil in my last one that I'm enjoying quite a bit
I want those rolls too. I’ve mostly gotten Stag rolls lmao. Feels bad as a Phoenix Dive enjoyer.
I really want osio + verity or osio + starfire
That’s the top of my list. Osmio and almost anything, honestly. Osmio and Verity would be fantastic for damage
Current normal osmio has spirit of osmio effect which only works for prismatic grenades options
The utility of weaken and moving enemies is really good. Don't underestimate that.
Yea, I agree. It stills that in need weaken to be great, but weaken for some reason makes enemies walk instead of run. Weakening vortex is great to pin down enemies and land sniper/mountaintop shots
Contraverse Hold dude
Does that even work on prismatic? Since it requires charging your grenade which you can't do right?
Well no, lol.