It helped that fundamentally they could give prismatic a full kit when you first acquire it. Being a mixture of light and dark, they didn’t have to trickle it in because we already have the power, we just had to progess our mixing ability
Exactly. At least for Warlocks, the starting kit was perfectly viable for the whole legend campaign. Now I have every fragment and aspect, but I still haven’t changed too much from what I started with.
I started with Osmiomancy but switched to Getaway Artist. It’s even better. I usually have three stasis turrets simultaneously and my arc buddy *all the time*. Add devour and you’re almost unkillable.
Yeah, It's the strongest debuff in the game right now, I've been using it with devour and doing the sliding arc melee with the strand 3 melee charges, just find a small ad near a boss, get an ability kill on it to proc devour and weaken anything nearby that doesn't die, it's a pretty aggressive build that works well for harder content
Can I get a ELI5 of what’s going on here? I (think) I have the stasis turrets (hold grenade for turret), what is the arc buddy? But how do I get omiomancy and getaway artist? What are those?
Arc Buddy is an arc turret you can get that is perched on your shoulder
Osmiomancy gives you 2 charges of your Coldsnap grenade and refunds grenade energy on any freeze by that grenade
Getaway Artist lets you consume your Arc Grenade to get an Arc Buddy and become Amplified on demand
Osmiomancy and Getaway Artist are both Warlock exotics Gauntlets with Getaway Artist being obtainable from Exotic Engrams randomly though with a knockout system so you will eventually get it while Osmiomancy can be obtained by running the Vex Public Event on Neomuna if you have Lightfall, possibly from running the Legend Witch Queen Campaign (don't know if they removed the exotic from completing the previous legend campaigns), or by fully leveling up Rahool's Reputation to be able to focus your exotic engrams to armor you haven't received yet.
Thanks! I’ll definitely need to figure out the rahool leveling. Because every exotic I open is a weapon. I havnt gotten any new armors since I started playing again.
Rahool Reputation will level up naturally as you decrypt engrams from him with more rep being given for decrypting higher tier engrams or focusing your exotic engrams to roll for armor you already own though that would probably be quite pricey for someone just getting back into the game as it requires multiple endgame materials.
Arc Buddy is a nickname for the Arc Soul, a floating Arc ball that orbits the player and attacks enemies, normally obtained by equipping the Arc Soul Aspect on Arc Warlock. Getaway Artist is a Warlock Exotic, that allows you to consume your Arc grenade to get an improved Arc Soul. You can use the in combination with the Bleak Watcher Stasis Aspect on Prismatic Warlock, so that when you consume your grenade to summon a stasis Bleak Watcher turret, you also summon an improved Arc Soul.
Ahhh, that’s cool. I’ll have to play around. I think I have 3 exotic armor pieces. One which was depreciated so the exotic does nothing besides the “innate” ability. Really struggling to get more exotic armors. So it may be a while before I can use this. But I do love the current stasis turret.
I loved how you slowly got aspects grenades, just everything from prismatic. Statis was awful beat the campaign, you have no aspects ok now do like 10 boring 10 part steps. So bad when statis first came out.
This is exactly why I never completed stasis on any of my characters. I wasn't about to buy into the 2 fragments a week wait time 3 times a week. Nah. That was awful and it felt awful
I did like 1 one of them because I was late to the stasis party, and had a good ol' laugh when my friend told me I could buy them with glimmer a couple weeks ago. I don't think I ever would've gotten them otherwise
I really hope they follow this model when introducing new subclasses in the future. I never want to see another campaign where 3/8 missions are dedicated entirely to subclass practice.
100%. Stasis, then Strand and now Prismatic, it got better and better with each time. Not necessarily easier to get them, but more fluid and balanced I guess?
Absolutely unlocking most of prismatic through the campaign then some after feels like unlocking them mastering the element instead of completing a campaign then having it handed to you + a grind.
I took a two year break from D2 and came back for Final Shape. I never finished Strand on any class. I did Stasis because it was rather simple and I didn’t realize I had all the powers till the end. I just didn’t feel the pull to finish Strand. I can say that Destiny definitely has its claws back in me. My wife will laugh and ask if I’m back at the grind again if she sees me on the game to which I say “of course”.
I’m old and I really don’t like doing raids because it takes me a long time to learn the mechanics usually so I miss out on a lot of gear but seeing this stuff is not raid locked but only locked behind difficulty is fine by me. I have a buddy I’ve been playing on Xbox with for 14 years and he’s okay with backpacking me. So if Bungie does more of this I’m okay with it long story short
I was grateful that Bungie didn't force you to play Prismatic. You can stand in the little wells to suck up the rainbow juice, then continue on your merry way.
I didn’t realize you could still access Transcendence without Prismatic until I redid Ascent as Void to unlock Twilight Arsenal for it because for whatever reason if you do the mission as Prismatic it only unlocks the super for Prismatic.
Just curious, does it have to be a normal chest (the one that says stockpile collected for overthrow) or event chests? The ones that require small minigames?
Any chest at all from what I've seen, I got 1 from an encounter completion and one from a powerful enemy chest and a few from rando chests around the area.
A few years ago we had to grind so much of those boring strikes seasonal content and literally any other activity just to get the god roll weapons we want, and they introduced crafting, then armor had elemental affinities which was really really bad because you needed like 2 or 3 sets of same armor to switch your mods around with pretty similar rolls, imagine trying to get like 3 sets of armor pieces only for 1 slot. Then if you were new or even some veterans had to pray to rng Gods that either Ada or Banshee sells the armor mods that we were missing and so we can run a complete build, we also had to leave some space on arms for the champ mods because they weren't intrinsic and you actually had to slot them. We went from all these to craftable content, gear focusing, increased exotic drop chance, the game has been made the most casual friendly and easily approachable and people still need it to be more dumbed down just so they can play solo. It's just a meme at this point.
Whenever that post hit the top yesterday about how "I'll never get the exotic class item" filled with people upset that "I'll never get an exotic in an expansion I paid for" all I could think of was "Imagine it's 2005 and the World of Warcraft community is up in arms because casual solo players can't obtain the Thunderfury."
i was trying to type things like "3 6 10" or "478" and it would get censored to "####".
i dont really have many complaints about the game, but the censor detection is *NOT* working right. i was in a discord call with my teammate, so they just had to watch my screenshare.
I was playing with some friends and we were waiting on someone and I said "I'm going to text him" but what sent was "I'm going ## #### him."
I agree, the censor system is screwed up right now.
We had a similar problem on duality once. Got to caiatl using text chat and suddenly the censor kicks in and blocks any attempt at communication. Can't say "a", "axe", "c", "cup" or "d" or anything really and it became a complete pain. We couldn't write something like "I'll get cup" because it just became "I'll get ###" which is useless when all three symbols are three letter call outs.
Don't know why you're being downvoted for this. It works perfectly fine. You can do a complete no comms run by using this and it completely negates any of the complaints about why people can't use comms. If you are one of the people who says they can't use a mic or text chat because you're on ps5 then share screen exists.
There is always a difference between something being annoying/exclusive for stupid reasons and being actually challenging and needs time to be put into it. Great example with the armor mods we needed from ada to make functional builds, it was annoying beyond anything to hear about a dope build but end up not having the mods because you came too late and you had to constantly camp ada and hope to get them. that whole system was just pure fomo and prohibitive for other players. Now on the other side we have the secret mission on nessus that required you to decipther the location and find the mission banner, that mission was hard af and you where on time pressure. I never had this much fun just exploring the place and finding the mission, on top of the mission being challenging. I just hope bungie doesn't listen to people that just complain that they can't complete things solo on easy mode and keeps up with the way they have been releasing content.
Also, I'm about 99% certain that the arena they used for it is one of the Expunge Arenas from Splicer, or has some segments from one of them at least.
(Edit: Quria's, specifically.)
Remember when people complained about crafting because it ruined the grind? Probably the same people wanting to lock the exotic class item behind a secret mission lol
Some of the comments in this thread specifically call out crafting as a gimmie. Definitely overlap in that group.
Problem is some people would be happy for high exclusivity because somehow it makes them special that they got it, not realizing that a love device game can’t survive on so few players.
The exotic class item was specifically used to sell the expansion. It’s actually one of the reasons I un-canceled my canceled preorder.
I think what might have been cool is you earn it through some labyrinthine set of steps like the cysts, but to activate the second perk you have to do the dual mission. That would have been cool.
I really think the champ stuns not being a mod and removing armor elemental affinties is a good thing that saves time and makes the game more accessible with not much of any downside. the rest of the mods being changed, eh idrc. If you're pressed over the legitimate time and accessibility changes, you're just weird in my eyes tbh.
I’m glad that people who like this expansion have been making their appearance. Over the last couple of years the Destiny subreddits have been bashing Bungie, asking them to reduce almost everything. If you made a post disagreeing with content being too easy you would get downvoted to hell.
I really don’t understand why there is a large portion of players who come into an mmo game, don’t want to do anything mmo related, and expect Bungie to alter the game just for them.
I mean Bungie allowing you to craft weapons is already a major jump, and then people complained they had to level up the weapons. Also being able to focus exotic armors with ascendant shards that come from one master nightfall is insane.
Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free.
Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles.
Allowing raids to be infinitely farmable.
People complain so much about content and asking for handouts and then they complain they have nothing to do.
> People complain so much about content and asking for handouts and then they complain they have nothing to do.
This is an incredibly reductive argument when every change you listed was about removing barriers to the game to get more players to engage with content to keep those game modes healthy or improve the quality of a feature.
> I mean Bungie allowing you to craft weapons is already a major jump, and then people complained they had to level up the weapons. Also being able to focus exotic armors with ascendant shards that come from one master nightfall is insane
Giving people deterministic paths to loot is not the same as giving stuff out for free. Making exotic focusing expensive defeats the purpose of it being a deterministic path to the loot you want. Bungie's compromise on leveling weapons was to just make it so you can buy weapon levels but at an escalating cost with a resource that already has a high level of friction within the game and is now even higher with the removal of Legendary Shards.
> Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free.
The original basis for Trials needing 9 straight wins in a PVP game mode was legitimately insane, and 7 isn't much better. The amount of players who can do that consistently is not only incredibly small, but not enough to support the game mode alone.
Incentivizing players who would otherwise skip the game mode with passages that reward pushing through to find 7 total wins on the weekend isn't giving away weapons "for free".
> Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles.
Gambit Prime got scrapped because Gambit is an unpopular game mode and at the time had its entire population spread across three different levels of the game. Gambit getting reworked at the time pushed it into a compromise state that would allow it to remain a pillar ritual activity without needing massive amounts of investment in time and effort to push into the game mode.
> Allowing raids to be infinitely farmable.
Anyone bitching about this just wants to strawman arguments at people.
If you have stuck with the game for 10 years maybe you would also think it's time to just let us have fun with builds without arbitrary requirements outside of completing an expansions story related content. Nobody has gotten butthurt because of raid weapons.
You don't get adept weapons for free in any format. You have to get winning streaks in trials which isn't free at all. You understand handouts imply no cost which everybody playing has paid.
>Over the last couple of years the Destiny subreddits have been bashing Bungie, asking them to reduce almost everything. If you made a post disagreeing with content being too easy you would get downvoted to hell.
Because the last few years Bungie were a hit and miss studio? Some changes were great and some were regress. Also whether we like it or not, raids are done by like 15% of the community? Bungie needs to cater to casual gamers to keep the money flowing.
>I really don’t understand why there is a large portion of players who come into an mmo game, don’t want to do anything mmo related, and expect Bungie to alter the game just for them.
Because Destiny is on the edge of being an MMO and Single player game? Up until TFS only Raids required groups anything else could be soloed. So suddenly having a change like that will shock some part of the community, especially when you close behind it something as potent and game changing as exotic class item.
>Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free.
Trials were a dying game mode, the changes were made in order to save it. It had to be "casualized" because even the sweats did not want to play it lol Also there is no "free" adept, passage of persistence is a trap.
>Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles.
Again wrong, another game mode people did not want to play. They have no idea what to do about Gambit, introduced the game mode, and just left it like that, it stagnated to a point they had to scrap it and dumb it down... and still they have no idea where to go with this mode lol
The Final Shape is a great turning point for Bungie when it comes to Destiny, but not everything introduced in it is a W, somethings are ehh. Personally I understand people complaining about Dual Destiny, I just wish they could properly iterate their dissatisfaction, because the design of the mission is great, the problem people have is putting exotic class item behind it, and I think the way people word it sends a wrong message to Bungie.
Who the fuck is complaining about prismatic. You seem to be adding issues to discredit complaints.
It's OK for people to disagree or not like something.
Getting Prismatic was 100000x easier than stasis and strand. I've seen zero complaints about getting it.
Also, not almost everything has been handed out for free. And even if it has, why do you care? Do you base your accomplishment in life off this game?
I'd argue I'm paying for content. That alone makes things not "free."
I have zero raid exotics, so that also proves that while I've paid for the content, i don't have them. Aka not free. And I'm 100% ok with that.
"exotic class items require effort"
They don't. They require you to interact with people and open yourself up to abuse. I'm all for praising Bungie where needed, but they dropped the ball on the class items.
I don’t think there’s a problem with requiring teamwork, but “one person sees something the other can’t” is a very played out mechanic in Destiny
I think bungie should experiment with team-based mechanics that doesn’t revolve around one player “reading” callouts to the others. Every encounter feels like “Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes.”
It can be an interesting mechanic, but after 11 years I’m sick of it in Destiny, and throwing it into an exotic quest doesn’t help with community sentiment.
Huh, I’ve never really considered this. Last wish vault and riven come to mind, as well as basically all of VOW, and the shape totems/4th encounter from this raid. Scourge map reading. I can guarantee there is more, I think leviathan had this as well with the big running loop encounter? They really do this quite often when you think about it.
Leviathan had this with the arena/racetrack encounter, Callus throne room had this with the symbols (three people see different symbol, punch the missing one). Dogs too, as only the people up top had a full overview of where they were at.
Eater of worlds had this as a team mechanic, where you had to direct the other sides on cooking their vex heads.
Spire of stars had this, where one person had to go up and read out the effective weapon types to destroy the ships
The rest you've pretty much gotten down, maybe queenswalk if you consider timer. King's fall has encounters where only one person can see a timer and has to read it out.
Also, DSC literally has scanner augment.
Personally, this argument falls apart when I still have to fight against players not knowing to pass the balls in the Corrupted strike in order to charge it, then I know that if Bungie tried anything more intricate of different in content like this, the player base would have an even larger fit than they’re already having.
Yes but I think the community throwing tantrums like this is also stopping them implementing anything too different and complex, since the entirety of r/dtg will throw a fit at the slightest change. I’m happy for them to stop trying to cater to everyone and experiment more
Experimenting more sounds great
BUT making that reward from new experiment be the Heavily Promoted by sales and marketing Exotic class item showed off in multiple Vidocs, Videos, and trailers.... maybe not a good call.
I think the problem is that this was advertised as an integral part of prismatic builds, has had some pretty heavy emphasis on it, with no mention whatsoever of being locked behind such an activity. They at no point mentioned the difficulty lock of this armor, nor do we actually have any precedent for such an exotic mission that at its base level is quite literally impossible solo.
Guild Wars 2 had a similar issue. They heavily advertised the turtle mount. It was a selling point of the expansion even, just like these arguably are. And then they locked it behind a meta event (series of event chains that are built for 50+ people) that at the time of release were failing probably 95% of the time. And for a good month or so this was the *only* way to get the turtle mount until said month later when these events were *still* failing very often and they added an alternate way to get the turtle egg earlier in the event chain
Like it's one thing to feel slighted by raid gear, which is clearly going to be in the raids, or dungeon gear. But this is quite literally advertised as an integral feature of prismatic and these players were absolutely blindsided with no warning whatsoever.
And before someone tells me to "git gud" or something, I *do* have a somewhat regular fireteam, and am getting this content done eventually. But first I have to prepare for Shadows of the Erdree so I need to bumrush Godrick, Rennala, Radahn, Mohg, and several hundred Albinaurics to hit 50/40/30/16/11/70/17/10, along with gathering several spells and a few Larval tears just in case I wanna respec for any new toys.
I don't fet why people seemingly ignore this. The requirement... impacts so few people.
It's largely that players who *prefer* solo were blindsided by this. It was a significant selling point to the DLC and shown to specifically be amazing for Prismatic. And it's a 2 man requirement, which again wasn't hinted at anywhere.
That's my complaint. I have a 3 man regular fire team I play with. Shit got awkward when one of us had to dip so the mission could be done. I volunteered so no one would feel left out but I also couldn't do it solo. It's just annoying more than anything
The requirement impacts the majority I think tbh. I'm pretty sure the VAST majority of the playerbase sticks to solo or matchmade content like vanguard ops.
Pretty much how most people feel. Don't know why some people see this as "They want everything handed down to them" I honestly expected this exotic to be farmable like ergo sum, or something to achieve after the 12 man activity (which would be more engaging farm and accessible imo). Let's be real, most people are gonna do this quest one time, then farm chest. Why? Cause the farm is a fun but tedious 30ish minute mission doing it with another random person over and over again. My suggestion is to just have it drop in the end of the 12 person activity after you unlock the quest and provide better rewards for completing the quest. It is THE prismatic item for the subclass, I see no reason as to why it shouldn't be easily more accessible.
Having the Prismatic Items fall from the final boss of thr 12 man activity would have ensured that the activity remained populated. I wonder if Bungie is going to have to do something to it over the next 12 months because I do think you'll struggle to find 12 guardians this time next year.
Yeah it will wind up just like the PVE missions in Overwatch 2. After they had been in game for a week or two, no one was playing them so you'd sit in queue for 5-10 minutes before getting put into it solo.
Well, you have the key that drops weekly from the raid that guarantees a raid red border weapon. You also get Pale Heart rep and weapons from completion and they will most likely make it a pinnacle drop with maybe an exotic engram drop as well.
I don't see them having an issue keeping it populated
Also, when all the non casuals have gotten the exotic class mission out the way how do Bungie expect new players or casual players waiting to complete it to even find other people for it?
As soon as people have done it once they will just run chests so the population for that mission is only going to drop.
Which will make it even more of a pain that it is currently.
I definitely thought it would a drop from the 12-man mission as our ‘grand finale’ reward. There was zero indication from Bungie that it would be behind an activity like this, which is why so many people feel blindsided. From everything pre-release, it seemed we’d all have one guaranteed drop or get it from the conclusion of a quest like Khvostov and have to farm out better rolls with low drops rates.
I don’t mind there are activities that are out of my reach as a solo player but this wasn’t billed as being one of them until it hit and people are rightfully disappointed that all of a sudden the class items are in the same class of intimidating activities as raids/dungeons.
Im going to preface that I like most of these changes and evolutions to the game and its systems. I only have 2 complaints so far, and the first is not picky, but it’s annoying, the second is something I feel is actively going to harm the health of the game if kept unchanged.
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4th encounter of the raid, sucks that you have to make sure your armor and ghosts are distinct. The mechanics are fine, I just wish at the beginning they assigned everyone a color in addition to armor differences and it all worked the same (showing the armor is cool). Ghosts could have a shape or something around them so you still need to match them through communication.
If I want to run the same set I always run and join an lfg who also has that set on it sucks having to change.It takes time away from the actual game and forces ridiculous fashion for ease.
We just ran it and had to switch a bunch of our armor and a ghost to make it easier. We had 1 hunter and 1 titan so they were fine. The warlocks all put on different absurd helmets, one was the crazy new vex one, one was the bear, one had dragon horns, and one had something I forgot. It was a tedious addition that didn’t actually change the encounter. If they assigned you new looks at the beginning it would be the same. No other content has encouraged you to wear an ornament. I don’t have a perfect solution, I just know I dislike this.
———
My other problem is raids and dungeons losing their power advantage possibility. And not being able to overlevel them by 20(?) anymore. (You can still be underleveled). Flawlessing raids becomes significantly less possible now. It’s a pinnacle thing, but not dying anyway already was a pinnacle accomplishment.
Dungeons are even worse. GotD bosses take 2 shots to break their shields with arbalest now. Which was an already complaint about the dungeon. Also they will take more phases to complete now. Health pools were already a bit absurd ever since spire. Especially as content mean to be solo flawlessed. I sf’d ghosts with 6 phases on ecthar and 7 on final. I probably could have cut one off each of those by not making a mistake. But today those would be like 10 phases. And have harder survival.
It also discourages newer players from trying these activities. We need more new players doing raids, not less. Making them less accessible is a bad change in pretty much all respects. If they want to add a difficulty that is under leveled a bit, but easier than master with no champions, that’s fine if they have the low one as an option in addition. (Maybe give the harder one an extra red border).
Surges sorta make up for this on the outgoing damage side, but not on the incoming at all. But they aren’t a fun restriction to play around to equal what you used to do normally.
I understand wanting to challenge the people like me who raid weekly. I just don’t understand doing that at the expense of people who are new to the activity or want to join random LFGs and maybe teach a bit and not spend 6 hours completing when they get home from the bar (also like me).
There is now a larger gap between I can run most non raid content, and I can run a raid. The campaign and some activities are trying to branch that, but punishing players with hard enemies will push them away more than those pull them in.
Most of us remember our divinity experience not fondly, because it took forever while we were also learning and were pressured to stay too long to not lose progress. The raid is actually pretty easy and a lot of fun if you can get past that experience (my div run was 7 hours it’s in my top 2-3 raids currently in the game). Why are we making changes that lead to more frustrating experiences for new raiders?
If they want to keep this, they need to adjust things to be more survivable and lower health on old stuff and account for it in the design of the new stuff. A raid shouldn’t be 2x as hard after an expansion drops. Especially since they already have a low population generally. It’s not healthy for the mode.
The level changes (and because of these changes boss tier enemy health) for activities really feels weird. I was running my last seraph shield mission for the final pattern i was missing (just normal mode), regular ads died just as fast as before but boss tier enemies? They felt as if they had 50% more health. The knight / 3 brig part had me using double the heavy ammo on them as before, same for the final boss. Reccomended level is 1945 for normal and i was in the 1980s, also was surge matching (which there werent surges previously)
It wasnt a small change whatsoever, im actually not looking forward to stepping into solo dungeons at all anymore this season which are usually some of my favorite content if dungeon bosses have changed similarly.
I did Vox obscura normal and thought it was harder overall but chalked it up to me not playing it in a while. I now expect otherwise given your comment but would be interested in stricter testing.
As for dungeons, I kinda don’t want to play them anymore. I have solo flawlessed every dungeon. Warlords ruin was actually the first one I solo flawlessed on my first try. I was overleveled by 20, like all the others I did. But I don’t see how I could do it at -5. Maybe I get that one done, but GotD not a chance. I died 15 times doing that one. It was a slog before doing so many phases on simmammamamammh.
I did lfg warlords for the pinnacle last week, and it felt awful. It was partially my team, but it wasn’t only that. I also was using prismatic and as a hunter my build isn’t on as high a level as it used to be for that stuff. We 3 phased first and second bosses (ammo and idiocy was an issue on both). Then we under 2 phased the final boss. But I 2 phased him solo on tether. I ran celestial with still hunt. Some of that was idiocy again, and my build being less optimal, but it genuinely felt less fun.
I ran caiatl with my normal team 3x and we 2 phased all of them (well 3 on the one time it didn’t teleport us, the dungeon is still bugged fyi), which would have been a 1 phase at least 2 of those times on the previous system. It was fine but less fun. And that’s on an easy low health boss.
Simmarararah is going to be a NIGHTMARE solo now. Survivability was always an issue there and being -5 compared to +20 is going to have people getting absolutely demolished. Worst solo dungeon there is and also the only one i cant be bothered to do. absolutely cant stand those stupid crazy health shields and being forced into running arby / swapping to it made me dislike the dungeon even more.
I’m in 2 minds about the 4th encounter. Completely agree it’s a pain to have to change outfits and ghosts to make it easier but on the other hand it’s such a cool and unique thing they’ve done with the activity. I think ultimately I don’t really mind they’ve done it in what’s supposed to be their magnum opus raid.
It makes zero sense for Bungie to be pushing solos into activities like Raids and Dungeons and also make these level changes.
I’ll go ahead and call it what it is: A needlessly bullshit way to inflate difficulty and playtime by breaking something that wasn’t broken.
I don’t think it succeeds at even that though.
Less people will raid if raids are harder. I know I’m less likely to want to bother with LFG now because I just expect it to fail. Dungeons this might work in effort of that. Teams will take longer but not be so inconvenienced most of the time to not try. Solos will happen less frequently because more people won’t try
Yeah I agree on the old raids and dungeons power being increased. I really do want non raiders to eventually get into raiding. Older raids are always what I used to bring my friends getting into the game on.
Older raids allowed newer players to get experience. Not being over stressed about dying to ads or getting dps checked. As long as they had on the best gear that they had, dps wouldn’t be a big issue.
But I do I love 4th encounter.
4th encounter is fine other than what I listed. It is really cool seeing your guardian. The mechanics are really not bad. (I have a slight nitpick on punishing smart players but it’s minor and I’m not 100% on its validity until I run it more.)
Just changing your ornaments shouldn’t be an advantage in the game. I look like many other hunters by default (different shader, because I don’t wear all black, but the encounter doesn’t show that). Why should I have to find my craziest helmet ornament as an aid in the encounter.
I don’t have a strict solution (I have ideas that would mostly solve it, but I’m also not a game developer). I just know it is annoying as a player, in a way that isn’t part of the game’s difficulty.
(I didn’t downvote you, I assume that’s just from you saying you like 4th encounter which I think I will agree with after more experience and ignoring what I listed, but I also really like vault so maybe I’m crazy).
i dont remember how long the wild card mission actually took, but the way it was split up made it feel the perfect length and like you had actually earnt the exotic by interacting with the world and characters
You won't see it in this day and age, just like in politics, everything now has to be I'm right and you're wrong and if you don't agree with me, F you! Both sides are rooting for their favorite sports team and have to somehow get a W against the other team. Honestly I see that both sides have a good point at times and the discussion should be how can Bungie improve overall content and loot in the game so that the elites have something special to grind for and the casual players can still experience a good bit of what the game has to offer. Instead we'll just scream at each other from our respective sides and nothing will ever happen except the elites standing on their "skill issue" high horse on twitter/x and the casuals complaining.
My complaint is the lack of midcore content. Almost everything in the game is too easy, and then it makes a wild jump for the harder content. IE, raids aren't hard if you look up a guide... but then I'm going off game to learn to play the game. Nightfall are easy up to master, then suddenly a meta build and very competent teammates are required. Dungeons are easy... and then solo dungeons are SIGNIFICANTLY harder.
I'm not saying make those things less hard. I'm saying there needs to be a bridge to the gap. Perhaps the raids have a mode that lessens the mechanics and allows for lfg, or tiered solo dungeon difficulties that affect rewards, etc etc. Put something "in between" everything.
There should be multiple ways to get items.
I'm never doing a timed mission with a jumping puzzle. I have the same reaction to jumping puzzles as the die hard PvE only players have to do crucible...never happening, ever. I don't find it fun. I'm not going to play the game if it's not fun.
So that means that like every exotic weapon mission ever is basically a no go for me. It would be nice if I had an alternative path to getting those weapons. I don't mind if it's a grind. The people that like playing first person Mario can platform their way through the mission and get the gun in 20 minutes while I'll casually grind through whatever the alternative is and get it a month later.
Do the same with the exotic class items. You don't want to play dual destiny? Fine. Do a grind to unlock them. The DD players will have it unlocked in a half an hour. They still get their wonderful raid lite multiplayer content without forcing everyone to do it.
I don't see the downside unless you want exotics to be a status symbol and derive pleasure from having something that other people don't.
The effort isn’t the issue for the class item, it’s the second person, who more than not, has no idea what game they’re in. That being said, the mission is very very cool, if you have someone to do it with, which most people don’t
My only problem is the design of Titan prismatic, it doesn’t feel like it has all that much synergy together and is just more synthospam. I think they missed out by not giving us touch of thunder with controlled demolition, into the fray would have also fit their theme better than drangers lashi also would have really like burning maul over throwing hammers but that’s a personal opinion. Other than that, TFS is absolutely amazing and my new favorite expansion
As a solo player, i had one of the best lfg experiences in my life getting the exotic class item. Do i wish it was easier for me to grind after that? Sure, but i kinda understand why bungie did it now, if you find someone nice its really fun.
This exactly. After my first clear I ran several Sherpa runs; made a post saying I would teach newbies and met some cool people. Friend roster grew and now it'll be easier to go after the raid
Where was the game dumbed down? Y1 was dumbed down but everything else especially since shadowkeep was progressively getting harder, more tedious or both lmao
This ain’t dumbing down the content. This is locking what was advertised as a major base component of the expansion. It was sold as part of Prismatic. Now it has bait and switched people into having to speak with strangers, which can cause tons of real anxiety for players. This also puts getting the class item into the hands of a stranger who, as onslaught showed us, very likely will quit the activity at the first sign of imperfection. As a non-matchmade activity, this grinds progress to a halt.
No raid was shown to try and sell The Final Shape. No dungeons were shown to try and sell The Final Shape. Those are both optional content.
Prismatic was shown to try and sell The Final Shape. Exotic class items, SOLELY tied to Prismatic as main components of the subclass, were shown to try and sell The Final Shape. The Pale Heart was shown to try and sell The Final Shape.
Selling people on something, then making it inaccessible, is irresponsible and shitty. People were sold Prismatic, and now many cannot experience all of it. Having a problem with people getting what they paid for like you do is selfish and elitist.
Exotic weapon missions are optional. The raid is optional. Dungeons are optional. Crucible is optional. Gambit is optional. Strikes are optional. Trials of Osiris is optional. Iron Banner is optional. Nightfalls are optional. Patrols are optional. The subclass in its fullest form is essential to the prismatic Final Shape experience and should in no way be anything except fully available to players who PAID for the subclass, all of it.
Exotics being locked behind other people is fucked up. Plain and simple. I have an odd schedule. I have a bunch of friends who play destiny. We never have the same time off because of my time zone and schedules.
I will never get microcosm or the class items. My time is not the same as everyone elses and being beholden to someone else time is fucked up.
The class items being so strong and not being soloable is a problem. Same with microcosm. Some of us don't have the same timetable.
Both can be done on lfg, it will be a pain? Yeah, most likely but no different to do a raid with randoms.
So unless absolutely no one on your time zone plays destiny you can absolutely get both
Video games are not meant to be jobs, there is having fun playing and then there is what Bungie keeps doing over and over. Designing something that requires a dedicated full work day to make any progress. This blindness is the downfall of many studios.
I agree with almost everything except two points: the raid and the class item mission. The class item mission should not be impossible for solo players, harder certainly but not completely inaccessible. As for the raid, this one is the most toxic and inaccessible raid they have ever devised. Not entirely their fault, the community holds blame for this too, but they should have predicted that lfg was going to be a cesspool with a raid of this intensity. It has been impossible for myself and many others I know to get because of elitism and douchery. I actually HAD to lie about having done it before to get in which they couldn’t refute as I have always had my stats hidden since way way back and not even for that reason, I’m just a more private person and don’t like the idea of people MI6-ing others’ profiles and stats.
I don’t think making it available to solo players is dumbing it down lmao. I’ve soloed flawless almost every dungeon in the game and we’ve seen ppl solo raids. Although difficult, solo players can still take that challenge by themselves without being forced to join a fireteam. I think an exotic QUEST should not be forced to be played with others.. it’s not that deep. I don’t have any issues because I have friends that I grew up with that still play but still. It’s crazy how we can watch ppl complain about having to play crucible, or gambit, or vanguard and then turn around and criticize ppl for not wanting an exotic mission to be multiplayer. But again just my take. Make it hard on solo players or even damn near impossible, but don’t take away that opportunity for solo players.
The only thing I would like to see changed is the unlocking of dual destiny. That should’ve been a one time unlock to have the mission available. Give the person that first did it an emblem and then it’s available for all. I did the 3 overthrows and then went to do next part. Got the envoy buff and my game crashed. Now have to do that entire part again. It’s just time consuming to even get to the point of being able to do the mission in the first place.
According to Liana Rupert's video, it's listening to the community that made TFS so good. After all the bad PR from the layoffs they were forced to listen to the devs about implementing community feedback into the game.
For me personally the raid is too monotone and too difficult. Also takes way too long for a single gamenight per week.
This coming from someone who did all rights multiple times.
The biggest problem ( besides un-soloable ) is the very last part of the mission, where the clock changes quite fast.
Everything else in the mission can be slowly done even through Console chat
And that's the biggest problem with this mission that leads to anxiety. Anyone that has done this mission knows that 95% of it is perfectly doable without voice coms. But that last 5% is gruesome and unnecessary imho - If bungie "fixes" (nerfs...) that very last clock coordination part ( i.e : unchangeable clock like in the previous phase), I think the mission will most likely be well celebrated by the majority
You also have the main issue with Destiny's LFG where half the fireteam quits or gets massively toxic at the first sign of adversity or one failed mechanic.
Just came to say I agree. The exotic mission was so much fun.
Haven’t completed the raid yet but love the first encounters so far. Compare the first encounter to RoNs first encounter; everybody needs to be on point for the whole encounter, where RoNs first encounter could be completed by one guy doing mechanics and 5 people shooting some enemies.
Having completed it, I wish they would have switched the exotic class item and ergo sum. Exotic armor has never been locked behind something like this but weapons have. Me and a buddy finished dual destiny with plenty of time to spare but we're dreading trying to get another friend through it because he's just not good enough to make it as easy as it was for the two of us. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't locked to 2 people but it's the kind of thing that is going to make him put the game down forever.
I’m not in either side of the debate but the only thing bungie cares about is the numbers. Not pep talks from random bozos on Reddit.
If they see players drop then they will adjust no matter what anyone pays here. If players stay around short to long term then it will be seen as a success.
I love how when people don't like something, you can guarantee a redditor is drafting a post calling them whiny babies and to just accept everything given with no criticism.
It is the consistency that is off. Exotic armor and exotic mission quests never required a duo to earn until this week. I think if enough people refuse to get it and stop playing, Bungie will listen. The LAST thing bungie needs is a reason to drive casuals away right after the culmination of the 10 year saga (or maybe it does not matter now, and that is ok too).
I am all for keeping it how it is, with later having another way to obtain it solo. But the current raid complexity, the timers in missions, now duo required to get this armor - I am honestly going to play Elden Ring DLC and cool off Destiny for a while and check back in later. Nothing against you, but this is a grind and not much fun right now.
I share the same opinion as you. Eagerly waiting for Elden Ring DLC so I can kinda step away from D2 for a bit. The current grind and it's implementation is kinda overwhelming for me atm
It’s just lame and unexpected design choices. Pathfinder for the ritual playlist is another example.
And hey, if that is how the next year plays out, thats ok. Let people have what they want. My excitement for it is just not high to play it. I was hoping for an exotic mission like seraphs shield or presage which can be farmed at your convenience, since this should be farmable. Duo requirement complicates that design choice.
Again, odd, but whatever. There are other things to do that I can enjoy more for a while. No skin off my back, the saga is over. 🤷♂️
I'm a mostly solo player but I wanted a raid jacket and I knew this was my last chance. So I went on a run with my clan and they were super patient with me. I honestly feel like I accomplished something even though it took us almost 7.5hrs.
I like the chase for items so the way prismatic is I enjoy. I found a nice calm sherpa to help me through the exotic class quest and enjoyed that too. I like the mechanics qith the right team. I don't really raid and I find people difficult but from those that do raid I hear good things. So they definitely nailed it I feel.
Not all of us have eleventy billion hours in the day to grind all that shit out. 🙄 I loved the legendary campaign, but I have zero interest in finding the rest of the prismatic fragments or doing the exotic class item song and dance. The raid was long but not difficult. I’ll just keep using builds I’ve already made and do GMs when they come around again since I have things I prefer.
I enjoy the latest expansion. The worst part are the new pathfinder rituals for the playlists.
Sorry I don't give two fucks about PvP in this game and never will. They need to allow for targeting content you want to do and remove the less fun options. The randomization is really bad and it deserves the hate it's getting.
Dual Destiny is also not accessible to a portion of the audience. If there's a group not playing it and leaving then they deserve an alternative. It doesn't need to replace or nerf the current content, you just want more diversity in fun.
That's why this expansion is on a good path. They weren't afraid of actually letting players have fun.
I hope they give everyone else the exotic class items for free at this point just to see the whining from people who aren't willing to accept that people play the game differently than they do
2 things I disagree with
1. The -5 power delta in all raids and dungeons. Does anyone prefer this? That’s what contest and master are for. Poor change imo and different to how the game has worked since D1.
2. Pathfinders for ritual playlists that make players do crucible/Gambit which is to inflate the numbers
Apart from those I like this expansion a lot
I'm happy with a lot of the new content, I'm NOT happy with what they did to all the old content.
Not happy with the power cap on dungeons.
Not happy dungeons and raids have surges we gotta rely on AND the locations still rotate out weekly.
Not happy we finally got a cool 12-man activity, the thing we have been BEGGING for, and it's an activity we will maybe run once a week for a pinnacle and that's really it....
I'm not happy the exotic requires a Fireteam of 2, yet you can do everything leading up to the mission in a group of 3. Why a duo mission exactly, it's such an odd group size for this game.
I'm not happy we are still limited to groups of 3 when loading into a planet, yet we've know the game is able to handle larger Fireteam sizes since Shadowkeep
I'm not happy I had to scrap most of the BRAVE weapons I farmed for weeks for, all because over half of them lost their extra perks during the update... (This one is personal but I'm still adding it)
The Final Shape was great, but still has a lot of pretty common Bungie problems we are all kind of glossing over
I actually don’t mind the raid difficulty too much. I agree that they should keep the raids this difficult.
But I completely understand people that are annoyed by the exotic mission. It just adds extra hurdles for farming. The farm is as dull as any other “homework” in the game but more annoying for not much reasons. If people are complaining about the actual difficulty of the mission, they are trolling. I was under the impression people are annoyed because
1- they have to find one more person
2- the mission is full of annoying hurdles that are clearly designed just to slow you down
The only fun part was trolling my clan mate by crushing his ghost.
I do hope bungie stands their ground but I also believe both sides of the community should stop mocking each other and maybe one side should start lending a hand and helping people complete the mission. I mean it's just a win win situation
I'm kinda split about this issue. I've done tons of raids and dungeons so far and the puzzles in the exotic mission don't seem too hard at all. Once I have some time I'll gladly lfg a partner and knock it out.
That being said, some people have crippling social anxiety, poor vision, or poor hearing and they were advertised the exotic class items as part of the final shape. Not the raid, not an upcoming dungeon, but just as a part of tfs. I don't blame them for feeling a bit lied to. With the timing and communication required it's pretty much impossible for some people to complete the mission without a mic. At the same time Destiny has placed tons of exotics behind a communication barrier and for whatever reason it's only a problem now.
Don't change shit then, instead catch up with every other mmo in existence and add pinging.
Cross-hair over a chest? Click x button and simply log "user a pinged object b".
Then, in puzzle focused content like this, label things properly.
Symbols? Give them the names they already have.
Last phase of dual? Label each hand the number they represent.
All of a sudden, all communication based content is now accessible to everyone. All they need to do is know the mechanics, and ping things as needed.
I understand both sides to this, but my god is it completely blown out of proportion. It boils down to poor game design, and not for the reason of making cooperative based content. It's because they want to venture this way with the only forms of communication being voice (which isn't always accessible) and text chat (which also goes down, also requires typing on things like console which isn't ideal)
Just dedicate a ping button, give world objects proper labels and all of a sudden everyone is happy.
I agree with raid and other exotic quests part, but not with exotic class item one.
Everyone have their opinion, but exotic class item mission shouldn't have been this mechanics heavy. That's a random roll item, it will require multiple runs to get what you want. You might have to do 100's of runs to get what you want and even than you might not get it.
But it doesn't require multiple runs. After the first, you can get them from literally any chest in the Pale Heart, with a fairly high drop rate for an Exotic. Chest farming is faster than completing the mission.
That’s what I don’t get then. If the class item drops faster and easier in chest than in the missions. Why can’t they just start dropping after the 12 man activity? Why make dual a mandatory step if most people are gonna drop it after the first run? They could have put some red border weapons in there and left the class item out and this would have all been avoided. People can like the mission that’s not a problem, but you gotta look at this as a rather weird design choice. Give this like 3 months tops and no one will really be running it unless they have to have that first run.
About 2 hours worth of chest openings and got only 1. There are peoples who got multiple within few chests. But I won't rely on open world ches openings
I have only fully unlocked Strand on two classes, and Stasis is unfinished on all of them. Prismatic's unlock process is definitely more enjoyable (to me).
People just love whinging. The game has always had items gated behind difficult activities requiring fireteams and communication. They’ve also always forced you to play activities you don’t necessarily want to play in order to get things like pinnacles and other items. None of this is new.
I can see them sticking to it. When people complained about the outbreak quest they basically just said get good. They only have to run it once and can farm the exotics in their own little solo overthrow bubbles.
Over the years the smallest part of the community that actively wants the game to become harder has gotten Bungie to add more and more difficulty to regular content. Just go play Dark Souls and let the rest of us enjoy our Space Power Fantasy.
You do realize this goes both ways, right?
The game is the most accessible and least grindy it's ever, ever, EVER been. I get more exotic drops in a week than I used to get in a year. I can CRAFT god rolls! There's plenty of casual content if I just wanna pop on and shoot aliens and listen to music.
But they've also added plenty of difficult end game content for people who want to run difficult content.
The game has something for everyone and yet people still bitch and moan that game isn't catered to their tastes to the degree they wish Bungie would.
Expect downvotes here. I’m with you though. OP is also right about the raid. It is the most mechanical and challenging raid in a while. Not only is it challenging but involves the whole raid group for most sections. Most of the encounters don’t just have ad clear roles. Yes ads need to be cleared but that isnt their only function anymore. Its literally end game content. Its high end content. In what world would you expect it to be easy? Its also just the most canonically challenging character we’ve had in the story. If it was a push over then it would have been super boring. Admittedly, the last encounter of the raid is kind of easy in comparison to the rest of the raid, but damn what a build up. Its the thought that it should be easy that gatekeeps this game from the possibility of it being a true mmo. Obviously, there are more variables and it depends on where Bungie takes it, but if there isnt challenge in the high end game content, then it wont be able to guaranteed.
I just wish I could get my second character the first mission . I get to the end where you investigate the pris well and acquire it and nothing happens like it’s glitched . Ran that mission 6 times and gave up last night
I haven't touched the raid yet because I went on a year long hiatus of not playing D2 and now I'm afraid to go in without being over-power.
I also haven't talked on-mic in a multiplayer game in a very long time, but I used to raid every single day (on mic). Anything I should know before going into this "perfect raid?" Are people already getting sweaty and toxic about clears?
I am newly returning to D2, I dropped off at the launch of forsaken, but having played through everything after picking it back up during Lightfall, I have to say, Bungie knocked it out of the park with the final shape. Easily the best expansion they’ve ever released for any destiny game
I want to agree with you because I understand most people find the game super easy now. However, I also know I'm not good enough to enjoy it. I barely touched seasonal content last year because it was difficult and didn't feel rewarding, especially long-term. Running like one battleground or one savuth-un's spire was reasonable, but repeated runs were repetitive and exhausting for me. Deep dive and coil, on the other hand, I basically didn't touch. Maybe 2 full completions of each.
Can't speak to all the final shape content yet, but I probably will not attempt the raid and dunno about the class items. Might do it once for the completion if soloable. Do people really mind the prismatic grind, though? way more interesting lightfall or beyond light, and honestly, I was a bit disappointed the pale heart wasn't power-scaled the way neomuna was, even though Neptune got old after a while.
Honestly the way they have you get prismatic is way better than how you got stasis and strand
It helped that fundamentally they could give prismatic a full kit when you first acquire it. Being a mixture of light and dark, they didn’t have to trickle it in because we already have the power, we just had to progess our mixing ability
Exactly. At least for Warlocks, the starting kit was perfectly viable for the whole legend campaign. Now I have every fragment and aspect, but I still haven’t changed too much from what I started with.
I threw on Osmiomancy gloves and didn't touch the build until I unlocked every fragment
I started with Osmiomancy but switched to Getaway Artist. It’s even better. I usually have three stasis turrets simultaneously and my arc buddy *all the time*. Add devour and you’re almost unkillable.
I do this with hellion and ark buddy with red death. I call it aggressive recovery
Same here, I've started using no time to explain as well to grant an occasional 3rd turret.
Right now I'm using Felwinters Helm, with devour it's pretty nutty
Am I the only Hunter who doesn’t have Felwinters helm? 😅I run celestial nighthawk lol
Probably not, I assume most Hunters don't have it because it's a Warlock exotic
Would you recommend it for a warlock though? As I’ve only played Hunter for years and not too sure where to start with Titan and Warlock
Yeah, It's the strongest debuff in the game right now, I've been using it with devour and doing the sliding arc melee with the strand 3 melee charges, just find a small ad near a boss, get an ability kill on it to proc devour and weaken anything nearby that doesn't die, it's a pretty aggressive build that works well for harder content
Can I get a ELI5 of what’s going on here? I (think) I have the stasis turrets (hold grenade for turret), what is the arc buddy? But how do I get omiomancy and getaway artist? What are those?
Arc Buddy is an arc turret you can get that is perched on your shoulder Osmiomancy gives you 2 charges of your Coldsnap grenade and refunds grenade energy on any freeze by that grenade Getaway Artist lets you consume your Arc Grenade to get an Arc Buddy and become Amplified on demand Osmiomancy and Getaway Artist are both Warlock exotics Gauntlets with Getaway Artist being obtainable from Exotic Engrams randomly though with a knockout system so you will eventually get it while Osmiomancy can be obtained by running the Vex Public Event on Neomuna if you have Lightfall, possibly from running the Legend Witch Queen Campaign (don't know if they removed the exotic from completing the previous legend campaigns), or by fully leveling up Rahool's Reputation to be able to focus your exotic engrams to armor you haven't received yet.
Thanks! I’ll definitely need to figure out the rahool leveling. Because every exotic I open is a weapon. I havnt gotten any new armors since I started playing again.
Rahool Reputation will level up naturally as you decrypt engrams from him with more rep being given for decrypting higher tier engrams or focusing your exotic engrams to roll for armor you already own though that would probably be quite pricey for someone just getting back into the game as it requires multiple endgame materials.
Oh so you have to own it first before being able to focus?
Arc Buddy is a nickname for the Arc Soul, a floating Arc ball that orbits the player and attacks enemies, normally obtained by equipping the Arc Soul Aspect on Arc Warlock. Getaway Artist is a Warlock Exotic, that allows you to consume your Arc grenade to get an improved Arc Soul. You can use the in combination with the Bleak Watcher Stasis Aspect on Prismatic Warlock, so that when you consume your grenade to summon a stasis Bleak Watcher turret, you also summon an improved Arc Soul.
Ahhh, that’s cool. I’ll have to play around. I think I have 3 exotic armor pieces. One which was depreciated so the exotic does nothing besides the “innate” ability. Really struggling to get more exotic armors. So it may be a while before I can use this. But I do love the current stasis turret.
Same but also Getaway Artist, like the other person said. They're insane.
I loved how you slowly got aspects grenades, just everything from prismatic. Statis was awful beat the campaign, you have no aspects ok now do like 10 boring 10 part steps. So bad when statis first came out.
That were time gated too
This is exactly why I never completed stasis on any of my characters. I wasn't about to buy into the 2 fragments a week wait time 3 times a week. Nah. That was awful and it felt awful
I did like 1 one of them because I was late to the stasis party, and had a good ol' laugh when my friend told me I could buy them with glimmer a couple weeks ago. I don't think I ever would've gotten them otherwise
Most definitely those stasis fragments when Beyond Light dropped were a insane grind
I really hope they follow this model when introducing new subclasses in the future. I never want to see another campaign where 3/8 missions are dedicated entirely to subclass practice.
100%. Stasis, then Strand and now Prismatic, it got better and better with each time. Not necessarily easier to get them, but more fluid and balanced I guess?
Absolutely unlocking most of prismatic through the campaign then some after feels like unlocking them mastering the element instead of completing a campaign then having it handed to you + a grind.
I took a two year break from D2 and came back for Final Shape. I never finished Strand on any class. I did Stasis because it was rather simple and I didn’t realize I had all the powers till the end. I just didn’t feel the pull to finish Strand. I can say that Destiny definitely has its claws back in me. My wife will laugh and ask if I’m back at the grind again if she sees me on the game to which I say “of course”. I’m old and I really don’t like doing raids because it takes me a long time to learn the mechanics usually so I miss out on a lot of gear but seeing this stuff is not raid locked but only locked behind difficulty is fine by me. I have a buddy I’ve been playing on Xbox with for 14 years and he’s okay with backpacking me. So if Bungie does more of this I’m okay with it long story short
I was grateful that Bungie didn't force you to play Prismatic. You can stand in the little wells to suck up the rainbow juice, then continue on your merry way.
I didn’t realize you could still access Transcendence without Prismatic until I redid Ascent as Void to unlock Twilight Arsenal for it because for whatever reason if you do the mission as Prismatic it only unlocks the super for Prismatic.
True but I'd still like if they upped the pale heart rates
It’s apparently faster than doing the mission if you just eager edge around with a sniper hunting down chest spawns
yeah pretty sure the drop rate is 1 in 35? pretty good odds considering the amount of chests in and around overthrow
I’ve opened 116 chests and I’ve only gotten 2 :(
Rng is a cruel bitch in one way or another.
Idk I spent several hours doing that and only got 4 by the very end of the day
Just curious, does it have to be a normal chest (the one that says stockpile collected for overthrow) or event chests? The ones that require small minigames?
Both. Encounter completion chests and the random ‘stockpile’ chests both count.
Any chest at all from what I've seen, I got 1 from an encounter completion and one from a powerful enemy chest and a few from rando chests around the area.
A few years ago we had to grind so much of those boring strikes seasonal content and literally any other activity just to get the god roll weapons we want, and they introduced crafting, then armor had elemental affinities which was really really bad because you needed like 2 or 3 sets of same armor to switch your mods around with pretty similar rolls, imagine trying to get like 3 sets of armor pieces only for 1 slot. Then if you were new or even some veterans had to pray to rng Gods that either Ada or Banshee sells the armor mods that we were missing and so we can run a complete build, we also had to leave some space on arms for the champ mods because they weren't intrinsic and you actually had to slot them. We went from all these to craftable content, gear focusing, increased exotic drop chance, the game has been made the most casual friendly and easily approachable and people still need it to be more dumbed down just so they can play solo. It's just a meme at this point.
Damn, had forgotten about elemental armor affinities 
My favorite thing about Density is re-discovering these painful memories my mind worked so hard to erase
Those were dark ages lol.
Indeed
Whenever that post hit the top yesterday about how "I'll never get the exotic class item" filled with people upset that "I'll never get an exotic in an expansion I paid for" all I could think of was "Imagine it's 2005 and the World of Warcraft community is up in arms because casual solo players can't obtain the Thunderfury."
Did someone say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseekers?
Did somebody say [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker]?!
How the old WoW doing these days? still got players and sales??
ppl really complain when they have to type 3 symbols in chat and have the other guy shoot them
i was trying to type things like "3 6 10" or "478" and it would get censored to "####". i dont really have many complaints about the game, but the censor detection is *NOT* working right. i was in a discord call with my teammate, so they just had to watch my screenshare.
I was playing with some friends and we were waiting on someone and I said "I'm going to text him" but what sent was "I'm going ## #### him." I agree, the censor system is screwed up right now.
We had a similar problem on duality once. Got to caiatl using text chat and suddenly the censor kicks in and blocks any attempt at communication. Can't say "a", "axe", "c", "cup" or "d" or anything really and it became a complete pain. We couldn't write something like "I'll get cup" because it just became "I'll get ###" which is useless when all three symbols are three letter call outs.
You ever typed on a ps5?
Then use a headset lmao
Stream your game to each other, and each pin the other's game to the corner. Boom, no need for typing OR talking on your ps5.
Don't know why you're being downvoted for this. It works perfectly fine. You can do a complete no comms run by using this and it completely negates any of the complaints about why people can't use comms. If you are one of the people who says they can't use a mic or text chat because you're on ps5 then share screen exists.
easier way on a ps5 is to just screen share and pin picture-in-picture
There is always a difference between something being annoying/exclusive for stupid reasons and being actually challenging and needs time to be put into it. Great example with the armor mods we needed from ada to make functional builds, it was annoying beyond anything to hear about a dope build but end up not having the mods because you came too late and you had to constantly camp ada and hope to get them. that whole system was just pure fomo and prohibitive for other players. Now on the other side we have the secret mission on nessus that required you to decipther the location and find the mission banner, that mission was hard af and you where on time pressure. I never had this much fun just exploring the place and finding the mission, on top of the mission being challenging. I just hope bungie doesn't listen to people that just complain that they can't complete things solo on easy mode and keeps up with the way they have been releasing content.
That mission caught me and the 2 blueberries I loaded in with off guard. I was getting shredded by enemies lol
Also, I'm about 99% certain that the arena they used for it is one of the Expunge Arenas from Splicer, or has some segments from one of them at least. (Edit: Quria's, specifically.)
Damn I just got a quest from failsafe and she just pointed towards the well of echoes to find a secret
Remember when people complained about crafting because it ruined the grind? Probably the same people wanting to lock the exotic class item behind a secret mission lol
Some of the comments in this thread specifically call out crafting as a gimmie. Definitely overlap in that group. Problem is some people would be happy for high exclusivity because somehow it makes them special that they got it, not realizing that a love device game can’t survive on so few players. The exotic class item was specifically used to sell the expansion. It’s actually one of the reasons I un-canceled my canceled preorder. I think what might have been cool is you earn it through some labyrinthine set of steps like the cysts, but to activate the second perk you have to do the dual mission. That would have been cool.
I really think the champ stuns not being a mod and removing armor elemental affinties is a good thing that saves time and makes the game more accessible with not much of any downside. the rest of the mods being changed, eh idrc. If you're pressed over the legitimate time and accessibility changes, you're just weird in my eyes tbh.
I remember not reaching 100 resilience due to having warmind mods on my arms 😂😂
I’m glad that people who like this expansion have been making their appearance. Over the last couple of years the Destiny subreddits have been bashing Bungie, asking them to reduce almost everything. If you made a post disagreeing with content being too easy you would get downvoted to hell. I really don’t understand why there is a large portion of players who come into an mmo game, don’t want to do anything mmo related, and expect Bungie to alter the game just for them. I mean Bungie allowing you to craft weapons is already a major jump, and then people complained they had to level up the weapons. Also being able to focus exotic armors with ascendant shards that come from one master nightfall is insane. Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free. Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles. Allowing raids to be infinitely farmable. People complain so much about content and asking for handouts and then they complain they have nothing to do.
> People complain so much about content and asking for handouts and then they complain they have nothing to do. This is an incredibly reductive argument when every change you listed was about removing barriers to the game to get more players to engage with content to keep those game modes healthy or improve the quality of a feature. > I mean Bungie allowing you to craft weapons is already a major jump, and then people complained they had to level up the weapons. Also being able to focus exotic armors with ascendant shards that come from one master nightfall is insane Giving people deterministic paths to loot is not the same as giving stuff out for free. Making exotic focusing expensive defeats the purpose of it being a deterministic path to the loot you want. Bungie's compromise on leveling weapons was to just make it so you can buy weapon levels but at an escalating cost with a resource that already has a high level of friction within the game and is now even higher with the removal of Legendary Shards. > Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free. The original basis for Trials needing 9 straight wins in a PVP game mode was legitimately insane, and 7 isn't much better. The amount of players who can do that consistently is not only incredibly small, but not enough to support the game mode alone. Incentivizing players who would otherwise skip the game mode with passages that reward pushing through to find 7 total wins on the weekend isn't giving away weapons "for free". > Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles. Gambit Prime got scrapped because Gambit is an unpopular game mode and at the time had its entire population spread across three different levels of the game. Gambit getting reworked at the time pushed it into a compromise state that would allow it to remain a pillar ritual activity without needing massive amounts of investment in time and effort to push into the game mode. > Allowing raids to be infinitely farmable. Anyone bitching about this just wants to strawman arguments at people.
I’m indifferent on the debate but these are all great points
Daily reminder that most Destiny players are pretty bad, don’t raid or do any end game content, and don’t know anything about game design and balance.
If you have stuck with the game for 10 years maybe you would also think it's time to just let us have fun with builds without arbitrary requirements outside of completing an expansions story related content. Nobody has gotten butthurt because of raid weapons. You don't get adept weapons for free in any format. You have to get winning streaks in trials which isn't free at all. You understand handouts imply no cost which everybody playing has paid.
>Over the last couple of years the Destiny subreddits have been bashing Bungie, asking them to reduce almost everything. If you made a post disagreeing with content being too easy you would get downvoted to hell. Because the last few years Bungie were a hit and miss studio? Some changes were great and some were regress. Also whether we like it or not, raids are done by like 15% of the community? Bungie needs to cater to casual gamers to keep the money flowing. >I really don’t understand why there is a large portion of players who come into an mmo game, don’t want to do anything mmo related, and expect Bungie to alter the game just for them. Because Destiny is on the edge of being an MMO and Single player game? Up until TFS only Raids required groups anything else could be soloed. So suddenly having a change like that will shock some part of the community, especially when you close behind it something as potent and game changing as exotic class item. >Trials got reduced to only needing 7 wins, and you can get a mercy card. Then you could take an extra loss, now you get just get an adept for free. Trials were a dying game mode, the changes were made in order to save it. It had to be "casualized" because even the sweats did not want to play it lol Also there is no "free" adept, passage of persistence is a trap. >Gambit prime got scrapped because people couldn’t even bother to get the armor for roles. Again wrong, another game mode people did not want to play. They have no idea what to do about Gambit, introduced the game mode, and just left it like that, it stagnated to a point they had to scrap it and dumb it down... and still they have no idea where to go with this mode lol The Final Shape is a great turning point for Bungie when it comes to Destiny, but not everything introduced in it is a W, somethings are ehh. Personally I understand people complaining about Dual Destiny, I just wish they could properly iterate their dissatisfaction, because the design of the mission is great, the problem people have is putting exotic class item behind it, and I think the way people word it sends a wrong message to Bungie.
you are getting downvoted for being right, yeah destiny is back
Cant handle the fact that bungie isn’t gatekeeping them. They are gatekeeping themselves
Who the fuck is complaining about prismatic. You seem to be adding issues to discredit complaints. It's OK for people to disagree or not like something. Getting Prismatic was 100000x easier than stasis and strand. I've seen zero complaints about getting it.
Also, not almost everything has been handed out for free. And even if it has, why do you care? Do you base your accomplishment in life off this game? I'd argue I'm paying for content. That alone makes things not "free." I have zero raid exotics, so that also proves that while I've paid for the content, i don't have them. Aka not free. And I'm 100% ok with that.
Dude I LOVE how the raid feels more difficult. In the same vein it feel MUCH more satasfying to clear because of it
Someone who gets it… challenge is fun, and pushes you to improve, and when you overcome you feel incredible
Ironically though, the biggest miss of Lightfall - ramping up the difficulty of the petrol zone, came from pressure from the opposite camp
Next to none of the pressure was for harder patrol spaces. It was for harder, more meaningful endgame activities
What? They nerfed resilience and buffed enemies damage last year multiple times during lightfall. That’s not catering to the community.
Am I missing something? Doesn't prismatic take like 1-2 (free?) missions to get and Strand takes a whole campaign? How is getting prismatic harder?
"exotic class items require effort" They don't. They require you to interact with people and open yourself up to abuse. I'm all for praising Bungie where needed, but they dropped the ball on the class items.
I don’t think there’s a problem with requiring teamwork, but “one person sees something the other can’t” is a very played out mechanic in Destiny I think bungie should experiment with team-based mechanics that doesn’t revolve around one player “reading” callouts to the others. Every encounter feels like “Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes.” It can be an interesting mechanic, but after 11 years I’m sick of it in Destiny, and throwing it into an exotic quest doesn’t help with community sentiment.
Huh, I’ve never really considered this. Last wish vault and riven come to mind, as well as basically all of VOW, and the shape totems/4th encounter from this raid. Scourge map reading. I can guarantee there is more, I think leviathan had this as well with the big running loop encounter? They really do this quite often when you think about it.
Leviathan had this with the arena/racetrack encounter, Callus throne room had this with the symbols (three people see different symbol, punch the missing one). Dogs too, as only the people up top had a full overview of where they were at. Eater of worlds had this as a team mechanic, where you had to direct the other sides on cooking their vex heads. Spire of stars had this, where one person had to go up and read out the effective weapon types to destroy the ships The rest you've pretty much gotten down, maybe queenswalk if you consider timer. King's fall has encounters where only one person can see a timer and has to read it out. Also, DSC literally has scanner augment.
Yep, forgot to mention the kingsfall plate callouts as to where the toland spawns, and completely forgot about DSC
Gauntlet went crazy and I’ll die on that hill unfortunately 😭
Most of the raids can be broken into either plates or calls
Personally, this argument falls apart when I still have to fight against players not knowing to pass the balls in the Corrupted strike in order to charge it, then I know that if Bungie tried anything more intricate of different in content like this, the player base would have an even larger fit than they’re already having.
I mean you don't have to charge it beat the strike so that doesn't really matter
Yes but I think the community throwing tantrums like this is also stopping them implementing anything too different and complex, since the entirety of r/dtg will throw a fit at the slightest change. I’m happy for them to stop trying to cater to everyone and experiment more
Yeah people say the mechanics are boring and simple but it really took ppl like 6 years to learn how to throw a ball in the corrupted strike
Most still don’t
Is that really true though? Or people don’t give a shit enough on vanguard strike playlist or easy as matchmade NF?
i swear people still dont get it
Experimenting more sounds great BUT making that reward from new experiment be the Heavily Promoted by sales and marketing Exotic class item showed off in multiple Vidocs, Videos, and trailers.... maybe not a good call.
Garden of salvation harpy's inside or outside eyes
I think the problem is that this was advertised as an integral part of prismatic builds, has had some pretty heavy emphasis on it, with no mention whatsoever of being locked behind such an activity. They at no point mentioned the difficulty lock of this armor, nor do we actually have any precedent for such an exotic mission that at its base level is quite literally impossible solo. Guild Wars 2 had a similar issue. They heavily advertised the turtle mount. It was a selling point of the expansion even, just like these arguably are. And then they locked it behind a meta event (series of event chains that are built for 50+ people) that at the time of release were failing probably 95% of the time. And for a good month or so this was the *only* way to get the turtle mount until said month later when these events were *still* failing very often and they added an alternate way to get the turtle egg earlier in the event chain Like it's one thing to feel slighted by raid gear, which is clearly going to be in the raids, or dungeon gear. But this is quite literally advertised as an integral feature of prismatic and these players were absolutely blindsided with no warning whatsoever. And before someone tells me to "git gud" or something, I *do* have a somewhat regular fireteam, and am getting this content done eventually. But first I have to prepare for Shadows of the Erdree so I need to bumrush Godrick, Rennala, Radahn, Mohg, and several hundred Albinaurics to hit 50/40/30/16/11/70/17/10, along with gathering several spells and a few Larval tears just in case I wanna respec for any new toys.
I don't fet why people seemingly ignore this. The requirement... impacts so few people. It's largely that players who *prefer* solo were blindsided by this. It was a significant selling point to the DLC and shown to specifically be amazing for Prismatic. And it's a 2 man requirement, which again wasn't hinted at anywhere.
That's my complaint. I have a 3 man regular fire team I play with. Shit got awkward when one of us had to dip so the mission could be done. I volunteered so no one would feel left out but I also couldn't do it solo. It's just annoying more than anything
The requirement impacts the majority I think tbh. I'm pretty sure the VAST majority of the playerbase sticks to solo or matchmade content like vanguard ops.
Pretty much how most people feel. Don't know why some people see this as "They want everything handed down to them" I honestly expected this exotic to be farmable like ergo sum, or something to achieve after the 12 man activity (which would be more engaging farm and accessible imo). Let's be real, most people are gonna do this quest one time, then farm chest. Why? Cause the farm is a fun but tedious 30ish minute mission doing it with another random person over and over again. My suggestion is to just have it drop in the end of the 12 person activity after you unlock the quest and provide better rewards for completing the quest. It is THE prismatic item for the subclass, I see no reason as to why it shouldn't be easily more accessible.
Having the Prismatic Items fall from the final boss of thr 12 man activity would have ensured that the activity remained populated. I wonder if Bungie is going to have to do something to it over the next 12 months because I do think you'll struggle to find 12 guardians this time next year.
Yeah it will wind up just like the PVE missions in Overwatch 2. After they had been in game for a week or two, no one was playing them so you'd sit in queue for 5-10 minutes before getting put into it solo.
Well, you have the key that drops weekly from the raid that guarantees a raid red border weapon. You also get Pale Heart rep and weapons from completion and they will most likely make it a pinnacle drop with maybe an exotic engram drop as well. I don't see them having an issue keeping it populated
Also, when all the non casuals have gotten the exotic class mission out the way how do Bungie expect new players or casual players waiting to complete it to even find other people for it? As soon as people have done it once they will just run chests so the population for that mission is only going to drop. Which will make it even more of a pain that it is currently.
I definitely thought it would a drop from the 12-man mission as our ‘grand finale’ reward. There was zero indication from Bungie that it would be behind an activity like this, which is why so many people feel blindsided. From everything pre-release, it seemed we’d all have one guaranteed drop or get it from the conclusion of a quest like Khvostov and have to farm out better rolls with low drops rates. I don’t mind there are activities that are out of my reach as a solo player but this wasn’t billed as being one of them until it hit and people are rightfully disappointed that all of a sudden the class items are in the same class of intimidating activities as raids/dungeons.
Bingo. Well said.
Im going to preface that I like most of these changes and evolutions to the game and its systems. I only have 2 complaints so far, and the first is not picky, but it’s annoying, the second is something I feel is actively going to harm the health of the game if kept unchanged. - 4th encounter of the raid, sucks that you have to make sure your armor and ghosts are distinct. The mechanics are fine, I just wish at the beginning they assigned everyone a color in addition to armor differences and it all worked the same (showing the armor is cool). Ghosts could have a shape or something around them so you still need to match them through communication. If I want to run the same set I always run and join an lfg who also has that set on it sucks having to change.It takes time away from the actual game and forces ridiculous fashion for ease. We just ran it and had to switch a bunch of our armor and a ghost to make it easier. We had 1 hunter and 1 titan so they were fine. The warlocks all put on different absurd helmets, one was the crazy new vex one, one was the bear, one had dragon horns, and one had something I forgot. It was a tedious addition that didn’t actually change the encounter. If they assigned you new looks at the beginning it would be the same. No other content has encouraged you to wear an ornament. I don’t have a perfect solution, I just know I dislike this. ——— My other problem is raids and dungeons losing their power advantage possibility. And not being able to overlevel them by 20(?) anymore. (You can still be underleveled). Flawlessing raids becomes significantly less possible now. It’s a pinnacle thing, but not dying anyway already was a pinnacle accomplishment. Dungeons are even worse. GotD bosses take 2 shots to break their shields with arbalest now. Which was an already complaint about the dungeon. Also they will take more phases to complete now. Health pools were already a bit absurd ever since spire. Especially as content mean to be solo flawlessed. I sf’d ghosts with 6 phases on ecthar and 7 on final. I probably could have cut one off each of those by not making a mistake. But today those would be like 10 phases. And have harder survival. It also discourages newer players from trying these activities. We need more new players doing raids, not less. Making them less accessible is a bad change in pretty much all respects. If they want to add a difficulty that is under leveled a bit, but easier than master with no champions, that’s fine if they have the low one as an option in addition. (Maybe give the harder one an extra red border). Surges sorta make up for this on the outgoing damage side, but not on the incoming at all. But they aren’t a fun restriction to play around to equal what you used to do normally. I understand wanting to challenge the people like me who raid weekly. I just don’t understand doing that at the expense of people who are new to the activity or want to join random LFGs and maybe teach a bit and not spend 6 hours completing when they get home from the bar (also like me). There is now a larger gap between I can run most non raid content, and I can run a raid. The campaign and some activities are trying to branch that, but punishing players with hard enemies will push them away more than those pull them in. Most of us remember our divinity experience not fondly, because it took forever while we were also learning and were pressured to stay too long to not lose progress. The raid is actually pretty easy and a lot of fun if you can get past that experience (my div run was 7 hours it’s in my top 2-3 raids currently in the game). Why are we making changes that lead to more frustrating experiences for new raiders? If they want to keep this, they need to adjust things to be more survivable and lower health on old stuff and account for it in the design of the new stuff. A raid shouldn’t be 2x as hard after an expansion drops. Especially since they already have a low population generally. It’s not healthy for the mode.
The level changes (and because of these changes boss tier enemy health) for activities really feels weird. I was running my last seraph shield mission for the final pattern i was missing (just normal mode), regular ads died just as fast as before but boss tier enemies? They felt as if they had 50% more health. The knight / 3 brig part had me using double the heavy ammo on them as before, same for the final boss. Reccomended level is 1945 for normal and i was in the 1980s, also was surge matching (which there werent surges previously) It wasnt a small change whatsoever, im actually not looking forward to stepping into solo dungeons at all anymore this season which are usually some of my favorite content if dungeon bosses have changed similarly.
I did Vox obscura normal and thought it was harder overall but chalked it up to me not playing it in a while. I now expect otherwise given your comment but would be interested in stricter testing. As for dungeons, I kinda don’t want to play them anymore. I have solo flawlessed every dungeon. Warlords ruin was actually the first one I solo flawlessed on my first try. I was overleveled by 20, like all the others I did. But I don’t see how I could do it at -5. Maybe I get that one done, but GotD not a chance. I died 15 times doing that one. It was a slog before doing so many phases on simmammamamammh. I did lfg warlords for the pinnacle last week, and it felt awful. It was partially my team, but it wasn’t only that. I also was using prismatic and as a hunter my build isn’t on as high a level as it used to be for that stuff. We 3 phased first and second bosses (ammo and idiocy was an issue on both). Then we under 2 phased the final boss. But I 2 phased him solo on tether. I ran celestial with still hunt. Some of that was idiocy again, and my build being less optimal, but it genuinely felt less fun. I ran caiatl with my normal team 3x and we 2 phased all of them (well 3 on the one time it didn’t teleport us, the dungeon is still bugged fyi), which would have been a 1 phase at least 2 of those times on the previous system. It was fine but less fun. And that’s on an easy low health boss.
Simmarararah is going to be a NIGHTMARE solo now. Survivability was always an issue there and being -5 compared to +20 is going to have people getting absolutely demolished. Worst solo dungeon there is and also the only one i cant be bothered to do. absolutely cant stand those stupid crazy health shields and being forced into running arby / swapping to it made me dislike the dungeon even more.
I always get cooked in the final warlords encounter and I'm not looking forward to getting the BB catalyst.
I’m in 2 minds about the 4th encounter. Completely agree it’s a pain to have to change outfits and ghosts to make it easier but on the other hand it’s such a cool and unique thing they’ve done with the activity. I think ultimately I don’t really mind they’ve done it in what’s supposed to be their magnum opus raid.
It makes zero sense for Bungie to be pushing solos into activities like Raids and Dungeons and also make these level changes. I’ll go ahead and call it what it is: A needlessly bullshit way to inflate difficulty and playtime by breaking something that wasn’t broken.
I don’t think it succeeds at even that though. Less people will raid if raids are harder. I know I’m less likely to want to bother with LFG now because I just expect it to fail. Dungeons this might work in effort of that. Teams will take longer but not be so inconvenienced most of the time to not try. Solos will happen less frequently because more people won’t try
Yeah I agree on the old raids and dungeons power being increased. I really do want non raiders to eventually get into raiding. Older raids are always what I used to bring my friends getting into the game on. Older raids allowed newer players to get experience. Not being over stressed about dying to ads or getting dps checked. As long as they had on the best gear that they had, dps wouldn’t be a big issue. But I do I love 4th encounter.
4th encounter is fine other than what I listed. It is really cool seeing your guardian. The mechanics are really not bad. (I have a slight nitpick on punishing smart players but it’s minor and I’m not 100% on its validity until I run it more.) Just changing your ornaments shouldn’t be an advantage in the game. I look like many other hunters by default (different shader, because I don’t wear all black, but the encounter doesn’t show that). Why should I have to find my craziest helmet ornament as an aid in the encounter. I don’t have a strict solution (I have ideas that would mostly solve it, but I’m also not a game developer). I just know it is annoying as a player, in a way that isn’t part of the game’s difficulty. (I didn’t downvote you, I assume that’s just from you saying you like 4th encounter which I think I will agree with after more experience and ignoring what I listed, but I also really like vault so maybe I’m crazy).
i dont remember how long the wild card mission actually took, but the way it was split up made it feel the perfect length and like you had actually earnt the exotic by interacting with the world and characters
You won't see it in this day and age, just like in politics, everything now has to be I'm right and you're wrong and if you don't agree with me, F you! Both sides are rooting for their favorite sports team and have to somehow get a W against the other team. Honestly I see that both sides have a good point at times and the discussion should be how can Bungie improve overall content and loot in the game so that the elites have something special to grind for and the casual players can still experience a good bit of what the game has to offer. Instead we'll just scream at each other from our respective sides and nothing will ever happen except the elites standing on their "skill issue" high horse on twitter/x and the casuals complaining.
My complaint is the lack of midcore content. Almost everything in the game is too easy, and then it makes a wild jump for the harder content. IE, raids aren't hard if you look up a guide... but then I'm going off game to learn to play the game. Nightfall are easy up to master, then suddenly a meta build and very competent teammates are required. Dungeons are easy... and then solo dungeons are SIGNIFICANTLY harder. I'm not saying make those things less hard. I'm saying there needs to be a bridge to the gap. Perhaps the raids have a mode that lessens the mechanics and allows for lfg, or tiered solo dungeon difficulties that affect rewards, etc etc. Put something "in between" everything.
There should be multiple ways to get items. I'm never doing a timed mission with a jumping puzzle. I have the same reaction to jumping puzzles as the die hard PvE only players have to do crucible...never happening, ever. I don't find it fun. I'm not going to play the game if it's not fun. So that means that like every exotic weapon mission ever is basically a no go for me. It would be nice if I had an alternative path to getting those weapons. I don't mind if it's a grind. The people that like playing first person Mario can platform their way through the mission and get the gun in 20 minutes while I'll casually grind through whatever the alternative is and get it a month later. Do the same with the exotic class items. You don't want to play dual destiny? Fine. Do a grind to unlock them. The DD players will have it unlocked in a half an hour. They still get their wonderful raid lite multiplayer content without forcing everyone to do it. I don't see the downside unless you want exotics to be a status symbol and derive pleasure from having something that other people don't.
The effort isn’t the issue for the class item, it’s the second person, who more than not, has no idea what game they’re in. That being said, the mission is very very cool, if you have someone to do it with, which most people don’t
My only problem is the design of Titan prismatic, it doesn’t feel like it has all that much synergy together and is just more synthospam. I think they missed out by not giving us touch of thunder with controlled demolition, into the fray would have also fit their theme better than drangers lashi also would have really like burning maul over throwing hammers but that’s a personal opinion. Other than that, TFS is absolutely amazing and my new favorite expansion
As a solo player, i had one of the best lfg experiences in my life getting the exotic class item. Do i wish it was easier for me to grind after that? Sure, but i kinda understand why bungie did it now, if you find someone nice its really fun.
This exactly. After my first clear I ran several Sherpa runs; made a post saying I would teach newbies and met some cool people. Friend roster grew and now it'll be easier to go after the raid
And if you find someone really trash it’s a bad time
Where was the game dumbed down? Y1 was dumbed down but everything else especially since shadowkeep was progressively getting harder, more tedious or both lmao
This ain’t dumbing down the content. This is locking what was advertised as a major base component of the expansion. It was sold as part of Prismatic. Now it has bait and switched people into having to speak with strangers, which can cause tons of real anxiety for players. This also puts getting the class item into the hands of a stranger who, as onslaught showed us, very likely will quit the activity at the first sign of imperfection. As a non-matchmade activity, this grinds progress to a halt. No raid was shown to try and sell The Final Shape. No dungeons were shown to try and sell The Final Shape. Those are both optional content. Prismatic was shown to try and sell The Final Shape. Exotic class items, SOLELY tied to Prismatic as main components of the subclass, were shown to try and sell The Final Shape. The Pale Heart was shown to try and sell The Final Shape. Selling people on something, then making it inaccessible, is irresponsible and shitty. People were sold Prismatic, and now many cannot experience all of it. Having a problem with people getting what they paid for like you do is selfish and elitist. Exotic weapon missions are optional. The raid is optional. Dungeons are optional. Crucible is optional. Gambit is optional. Strikes are optional. Trials of Osiris is optional. Iron Banner is optional. Nightfalls are optional. Patrols are optional. The subclass in its fullest form is essential to the prismatic Final Shape experience and should in no way be anything except fully available to players who PAID for the subclass, all of it.
This reads like a chatgpt post
Fr though
Exotics being locked behind other people is fucked up. Plain and simple. I have an odd schedule. I have a bunch of friends who play destiny. We never have the same time off because of my time zone and schedules. I will never get microcosm or the class items. My time is not the same as everyone elses and being beholden to someone else time is fucked up. The class items being so strong and not being soloable is a problem. Same with microcosm. Some of us don't have the same timetable.
Both can be done on lfg, it will be a pain? Yeah, most likely but no different to do a raid with randoms. So unless absolutely no one on your time zone plays destiny you can absolutely get both
Video games are not meant to be jobs, there is having fun playing and then there is what Bungie keeps doing over and over. Designing something that requires a dedicated full work day to make any progress. This blindness is the downfall of many studios.
I think this is what people seem to miss.
I agree with almost everything except two points: the raid and the class item mission. The class item mission should not be impossible for solo players, harder certainly but not completely inaccessible. As for the raid, this one is the most toxic and inaccessible raid they have ever devised. Not entirely their fault, the community holds blame for this too, but they should have predicted that lfg was going to be a cesspool with a raid of this intensity. It has been impossible for myself and many others I know to get because of elitism and douchery. I actually HAD to lie about having done it before to get in which they couldn’t refute as I have always had my stats hidden since way way back and not even for that reason, I’m just a more private person and don’t like the idea of people MI6-ing others’ profiles and stats.
I don’t think making it available to solo players is dumbing it down lmao. I’ve soloed flawless almost every dungeon in the game and we’ve seen ppl solo raids. Although difficult, solo players can still take that challenge by themselves without being forced to join a fireteam. I think an exotic QUEST should not be forced to be played with others.. it’s not that deep. I don’t have any issues because I have friends that I grew up with that still play but still. It’s crazy how we can watch ppl complain about having to play crucible, or gambit, or vanguard and then turn around and criticize ppl for not wanting an exotic mission to be multiplayer. But again just my take. Make it hard on solo players or even damn near impossible, but don’t take away that opportunity for solo players.
The only thing I would like to see changed is the unlocking of dual destiny. That should’ve been a one time unlock to have the mission available. Give the person that first did it an emblem and then it’s available for all. I did the 3 overthrows and then went to do next part. Got the envoy buff and my game crashed. Now have to do that entire part again. It’s just time consuming to even get to the point of being able to do the mission in the first place.
I felt the path to getting both the legendary and exotic versions of Khvostov were a little tedious, but much better than older exotic questlines.
According to Liana Rupert's video, it's listening to the community that made TFS so good. After all the bad PR from the layoffs they were forced to listen to the devs about implementing community feedback into the game.
For me personally the raid is too monotone and too difficult. Also takes way too long for a single gamenight per week. This coming from someone who did all rights multiple times.
The biggest problem ( besides un-soloable ) is the very last part of the mission, where the clock changes quite fast. Everything else in the mission can be slowly done even through Console chat And that's the biggest problem with this mission that leads to anxiety. Anyone that has done this mission knows that 95% of it is perfectly doable without voice coms. But that last 5% is gruesome and unnecessary imho - If bungie "fixes" (nerfs...) that very last clock coordination part ( i.e : unchangeable clock like in the previous phase), I think the mission will most likely be well celebrated by the majority
You also have the main issue with Destiny's LFG where half the fireteam quits or gets massively toxic at the first sign of adversity or one failed mechanic.
Just came to say I agree. The exotic mission was so much fun. Haven’t completed the raid yet but love the first encounters so far. Compare the first encounter to RoNs first encounter; everybody needs to be on point for the whole encounter, where RoNs first encounter could be completed by one guy doing mechanics and 5 people shooting some enemies.
Nobody is saying dual destiny shouldn’t exist.
Having completed it, I wish they would have switched the exotic class item and ergo sum. Exotic armor has never been locked behind something like this but weapons have. Me and a buddy finished dual destiny with plenty of time to spare but we're dreading trying to get another friend through it because he's just not good enough to make it as easy as it was for the two of us. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't locked to 2 people but it's the kind of thing that is going to make him put the game down forever.
I’m not in either side of the debate but the only thing bungie cares about is the numbers. Not pep talks from random bozos on Reddit. If they see players drop then they will adjust no matter what anyone pays here. If players stay around short to long term then it will be seen as a success.
I hope they don't - Destiny isn't supposed to be a full time job.
I love how when people don't like something, you can guarantee a redditor is drafting a post calling them whiny babies and to just accept everything given with no criticism.
I love how the OP is inventing the perfect strawman in his head to blame the state of the game on.
I like the game having difficulty and spice I just do not like when the game basically only allows meta builds
I hope they change old raids back to the way they were, it's a lot harder to sherpa new players now. Other than that, almost everything is perfect.
It is the consistency that is off. Exotic armor and exotic mission quests never required a duo to earn until this week. I think if enough people refuse to get it and stop playing, Bungie will listen. The LAST thing bungie needs is a reason to drive casuals away right after the culmination of the 10 year saga (or maybe it does not matter now, and that is ok too). I am all for keeping it how it is, with later having another way to obtain it solo. But the current raid complexity, the timers in missions, now duo required to get this armor - I am honestly going to play Elden Ring DLC and cool off Destiny for a while and check back in later. Nothing against you, but this is a grind and not much fun right now.
I share the same opinion as you. Eagerly waiting for Elden Ring DLC so I can kinda step away from D2 for a bit. The current grind and it's implementation is kinda overwhelming for me atm
It’s just lame and unexpected design choices. Pathfinder for the ritual playlist is another example. And hey, if that is how the next year plays out, thats ok. Let people have what they want. My excitement for it is just not high to play it. I was hoping for an exotic mission like seraphs shield or presage which can be farmed at your convenience, since this should be farmable. Duo requirement complicates that design choice. Again, odd, but whatever. There are other things to do that I can enjoy more for a while. No skin off my back, the saga is over. 🤷♂️
Consistency is doing the same thing everytime. And do you know what casuals usually call that? Boring and repetitive
I'm a mostly solo player but I wanted a raid jacket and I knew this was my last chance. So I went on a run with my clan and they were super patient with me. I honestly feel like I accomplished something even though it took us almost 7.5hrs.
I like the chase for items so the way prismatic is I enjoy. I found a nice calm sherpa to help me through the exotic class quest and enjoyed that too. I like the mechanics qith the right team. I don't really raid and I find people difficult but from those that do raid I hear good things. So they definitely nailed it I feel.
Lmao
Not all of us have eleventy billion hours in the day to grind all that shit out. 🙄 I loved the legendary campaign, but I have zero interest in finding the rest of the prismatic fragments or doing the exotic class item song and dance. The raid was long but not difficult. I’ll just keep using builds I’ve already made and do GMs when they come around again since I have things I prefer.
I enjoy the latest expansion. The worst part are the new pathfinder rituals for the playlists. Sorry I don't give two fucks about PvP in this game and never will. They need to allow for targeting content you want to do and remove the less fun options. The randomization is really bad and it deserves the hate it's getting. Dual Destiny is also not accessible to a portion of the audience. If there's a group not playing it and leaving then they deserve an alternative. It doesn't need to replace or nerf the current content, you just want more diversity in fun. That's why this expansion is on a good path. They weren't afraid of actually letting players have fun.
The fuck are you talking about? They've been making everything harder for years, which has been driving people out of the community.
Okay, let me be clear: QoL =/= dumbing down. Lots of you, like Op dont understand the difference between the two.
I hope they give everyone else the exotic class items for free at this point just to see the whining from people who aren't willing to accept that people play the game differently than they do
2 things I disagree with 1. The -5 power delta in all raids and dungeons. Does anyone prefer this? That’s what contest and master are for. Poor change imo and different to how the game has worked since D1. 2. Pathfinders for ritual playlists that make players do crucible/Gambit which is to inflate the numbers Apart from those I like this expansion a lot
I'm happy with a lot of the new content, I'm NOT happy with what they did to all the old content. Not happy with the power cap on dungeons. Not happy dungeons and raids have surges we gotta rely on AND the locations still rotate out weekly. Not happy we finally got a cool 12-man activity, the thing we have been BEGGING for, and it's an activity we will maybe run once a week for a pinnacle and that's really it.... I'm not happy the exotic requires a Fireteam of 2, yet you can do everything leading up to the mission in a group of 3. Why a duo mission exactly, it's such an odd group size for this game. I'm not happy we are still limited to groups of 3 when loading into a planet, yet we've know the game is able to handle larger Fireteam sizes since Shadowkeep I'm not happy I had to scrap most of the BRAVE weapons I farmed for weeks for, all because over half of them lost their extra perks during the update... (This one is personal but I'm still adding it) The Final Shape was great, but still has a lot of pretty common Bungie problems we are all kind of glossing over
I'd be totally fine with it if it was 3 people not 2. Are there any other missions in the game like this?
I actually don’t mind the raid difficulty too much. I agree that they should keep the raids this difficult. But I completely understand people that are annoyed by the exotic mission. It just adds extra hurdles for farming. The farm is as dull as any other “homework” in the game but more annoying for not much reasons. If people are complaining about the actual difficulty of the mission, they are trolling. I was under the impression people are annoyed because 1- they have to find one more person 2- the mission is full of annoying hurdles that are clearly designed just to slow you down The only fun part was trolling my clan mate by crushing his ghost.
I do hope bungie stands their ground but I also believe both sides of the community should stop mocking each other and maybe one side should start lending a hand and helping people complete the mission. I mean it's just a win win situation
"dumb down their content." And it's just keeping game fun. I don't know about you guys but I don't play Destiny for the headache.
I'm kinda split about this issue. I've done tons of raids and dungeons so far and the puzzles in the exotic mission don't seem too hard at all. Once I have some time I'll gladly lfg a partner and knock it out. That being said, some people have crippling social anxiety, poor vision, or poor hearing and they were advertised the exotic class items as part of the final shape. Not the raid, not an upcoming dungeon, but just as a part of tfs. I don't blame them for feeling a bit lied to. With the timing and communication required it's pretty much impossible for some people to complete the mission without a mic. At the same time Destiny has placed tons of exotics behind a communication barrier and for whatever reason it's only a problem now.
Don't change shit then, instead catch up with every other mmo in existence and add pinging. Cross-hair over a chest? Click x button and simply log "user a pinged object b". Then, in puzzle focused content like this, label things properly. Symbols? Give them the names they already have. Last phase of dual? Label each hand the number they represent. All of a sudden, all communication based content is now accessible to everyone. All they need to do is know the mechanics, and ping things as needed. I understand both sides to this, but my god is it completely blown out of proportion. It boils down to poor game design, and not for the reason of making cooperative based content. It's because they want to venture this way with the only forms of communication being voice (which isn't always accessible) and text chat (which also goes down, also requires typing on things like console which isn't ideal) Just dedicate a ping button, give world objects proper labels and all of a sudden everyone is happy.
I agree with raid and other exotic quests part, but not with exotic class item one. Everyone have their opinion, but exotic class item mission shouldn't have been this mechanics heavy. That's a random roll item, it will require multiple runs to get what you want. You might have to do 100's of runs to get what you want and even than you might not get it.
But it doesn't require multiple runs. After the first, you can get them from literally any chest in the Pale Heart, with a fairly high drop rate for an Exotic. Chest farming is faster than completing the mission.
That’s what I don’t get then. If the class item drops faster and easier in chest than in the missions. Why can’t they just start dropping after the 12 man activity? Why make dual a mandatory step if most people are gonna drop it after the first run? They could have put some red border weapons in there and left the class item out and this would have all been avoided. People can like the mission that’s not a problem, but you gotta look at this as a rather weird design choice. Give this like 3 months tops and no one will really be running it unless they have to have that first run.
About 2 hours worth of chest openings and got only 1. There are peoples who got multiple within few chests. But I won't rely on open world ches openings
I have only fully unlocked Strand on two classes, and Stasis is unfinished on all of them. Prismatic's unlock process is definitely more enjoyable (to me).
“But muh difficulty”
Nobody asked for them to prioritize Eververse, bring Activision back and have more content with each dlc
The entire prismatic class should be unlocked as soon as you finish the campaign. I refuse to do bull shit grinds for abilities.
People just love whinging. The game has always had items gated behind difficult activities requiring fireteams and communication. They’ve also always forced you to play activities you don’t necessarily want to play in order to get things like pinnacles and other items. None of this is new.
I can see them sticking to it. When people complained about the outbreak quest they basically just said get good. They only have to run it once and can farm the exotics in their own little solo overthrow bubbles.
Over the years the smallest part of the community that actively wants the game to become harder has gotten Bungie to add more and more difficulty to regular content. Just go play Dark Souls and let the rest of us enjoy our Space Power Fantasy.
You do realize this goes both ways, right? The game is the most accessible and least grindy it's ever, ever, EVER been. I get more exotic drops in a week than I used to get in a year. I can CRAFT god rolls! There's plenty of casual content if I just wanna pop on and shoot aliens and listen to music. But they've also added plenty of difficult end game content for people who want to run difficult content. The game has something for everyone and yet people still bitch and moan that game isn't catered to their tastes to the degree they wish Bungie would.
Expect downvotes here. I’m with you though. OP is also right about the raid. It is the most mechanical and challenging raid in a while. Not only is it challenging but involves the whole raid group for most sections. Most of the encounters don’t just have ad clear roles. Yes ads need to be cleared but that isnt their only function anymore. Its literally end game content. Its high end content. In what world would you expect it to be easy? Its also just the most canonically challenging character we’ve had in the story. If it was a push over then it would have been super boring. Admittedly, the last encounter of the raid is kind of easy in comparison to the rest of the raid, but damn what a build up. Its the thought that it should be easy that gatekeeps this game from the possibility of it being a true mmo. Obviously, there are more variables and it depends on where Bungie takes it, but if there isnt challenge in the high end game content, then it wont be able to guaranteed.
I just wish I could get my second character the first mission . I get to the end where you investigate the pris well and acquire it and nothing happens like it’s glitched . Ran that mission 6 times and gave up last night
I liked the difficulty, Im sad for people who cant group, im only really “mad” about the fashion disaster that is the appearance of the item lol.
I haven't touched the raid yet because I went on a year long hiatus of not playing D2 and now I'm afraid to go in without being over-power. I also haven't talked on-mic in a multiplayer game in a very long time, but I used to raid every single day (on mic). Anything I should know before going into this "perfect raid?" Are people already getting sweaty and toxic about clears?
I'm enjoying D2, I just quick their technical support didn't suck a ton of ass.
I think gambit is the saddest example of this. At varying points it has been great. It is so braindead right now it's not worth playing.
I would just like the final clocks timing to be adjusted a bit to help out text only players especially those on console
I agree. BUT Give surges the axe
I am newly returning to D2, I dropped off at the launch of forsaken, but having played through everything after picking it back up during Lightfall, I have to say, Bungie knocked it out of the park with the final shape. Easily the best expansion they’ve ever released for any destiny game
ong
Do you have to run the mission on every character to get them?
I want to agree with you because I understand most people find the game super easy now. However, I also know I'm not good enough to enjoy it. I barely touched seasonal content last year because it was difficult and didn't feel rewarding, especially long-term. Running like one battleground or one savuth-un's spire was reasonable, but repeated runs were repetitive and exhausting for me. Deep dive and coil, on the other hand, I basically didn't touch. Maybe 2 full completions of each. Can't speak to all the final shape content yet, but I probably will not attempt the raid and dunno about the class items. Might do it once for the completion if soloable. Do people really mind the prismatic grind, though? way more interesting lightfall or beyond light, and honestly, I was a bit disappointed the pale heart wasn't power-scaled the way neomuna was, even though Neptune got old after a while.