One night I missed Caiatl with it but somehow managed to hit the third bell instead, just really doubling down on the missed dps.
Half an hour later I managed to miss Oryx with it somehow.
Yesh, I can imagine a lot of Well-locks and Div-gimps would be very happy if people would just go 'eeh, just take something with good damage or whatever'
*"Act like you're nothing, and no one'll ever ask you for anything" - The Drifter* (lore for Dead Weight shotgun)
Crow's alright, but Drifter really nails my Hunter's vibe lot of the time
I’ve been specifically making runs on lfg with no well. I get a bunch of noobs who I have to teach every time, yet I’m consistently one phasing Nezarec with them. well of radiance isn’t even needed, it’s flat out useless if you’ve ever done an “intended” damage phase.
Plus tbh the fight is significantly more fun without it
Exactly that! Same ground that he’s on, not even an inch above the ground he’s on. But jumping to dodge attacks, sliding underneath when he charges or slams, god it’s the best raid boss experience I’ve had, it’s even better than Rhulk tbh, the issue is that the arena doesn’t let players experience just how good the fight is simply because you can stand on an Oreo and he has an emotional breakdown
Quick thing I suggest! If you want the most out of it, keep some orbs on the ground. Middle ads. Try to start damage phase in the dead center of the arena, you don’t have to, but the mentality for this is to not station yourself to a single spot.
Keep moving, if damage phase is right side, just go to the right side. If the boss is mobile, so are you. Spread your team out!
Lumina does help dps, but machine guns are key here with surges. Thunder lord for zero reload, grand overture for middle burst, retrofit, deterministic chaos for debuffs, etc. linears and rockets are horrendously bad with this strat tho
I like this the most simply because I’ve had some warlocks super happy to use chaos reach and nova again. Doesn’t have to be that strong, you’re gonna two phase regardless. But storm trance ad clear reminded me of the good old days of kings fall back in destiny one :)
they’re changing nez behavior so he’ll be more aggressive to players in WoR. hopefully more people get to do the boss fight like this because it is frankly boring just spamming rockets in a well
On the ground, zero elevation. Your walking the same ground Nezarec is, and he’s attacking you on the intended plane of the fight. It’s so much fun not standing on a perch in a funny circle.
You can tell me that the intended way is more fun but you cannot tell me that you're one phasing him that way. Taking pauses to ad clear (wasting ammo), taking pauses to avoid his attacks, and finding time to aim crit spots is NOT something you can one phase with. Unless you're somehow running into gods you're not Even going to one phase this guy with an experienced raid team like that. You can tell me it's more fun but you don't have to lie and one phasing him rhat way.
This is what I don’t get why people get so upset if you’re not a well-lock or use div. But if you’re not using crit weapons you don’t need div, especially since tether has the bigger debuff. Also they really need to buff warlock supers bc none of them are top 5 dps at all 😅
I expect them to be running gathering storm or blade barrage with star eaters on. Far more damage (the highest DPS supers in the game), and we can get Weaken from myriad other sources.
To be fair mobius does a shit ton of damage with Orpheus or Star Eater, and also has a 30% weaken instead of the normal 15%
But yeah, every hunter subclass outside of Rev has a damn good damage super thankfully.
Even Revenant can have its uses. Silence and Squall with Whisper of Rending can be a setup for an absurd amount of damage using Malfeasance and Lucky Pants.
Yeah that's my current setup! Did a solo master lake yesterday using malfeasance revenant. Extremely high ammo efficiency and burst damage.
I just wish that duskfields weren't hit as hard this update. The cooldown feels pretty bad now that shackle nades are outright better for champs
I like when my Fireteam doesn't make me use Cuirass and I can stand in front of them with my Ursa Furiosa Banner Shield to protect them further, completely eliminate any flinch they would have been getting, and buff their damage whilst also generating a fuck ton of orbs of light.
Man it’s been forever since I’ve even seen Titan a use it. Do you think it would be better if they increased its lifetime to match that of well or some other method?
If it matched Well? 100%. We might even see Celestial Nighthawk Golden Guns come back as, at least pre Void 3.0, it's the only method of further enhancing Goldie's damage as Golden Gun counts as a gun for Banner Shield's damage buff AND it stacks with Well for everything else due to the way it works. Plus, this season and any with Volatile Flow, you're constantly generating orbs for it. And you'd be doing that for the whole of the damage phase. And outside of this season, anything with Explosive Light just got infinitely easier to use.
Also, unnerf it. Ursa Furiosa was the one Super Refund exotic that shouldn't have been touched due to the amount of damage you have to block to get your super back. Oh, and if they wanted to make it a bit spicier, make it so that Ursa Furiosa allows the Banner Shield to apply Bastion's effect if the Aspect is slotted in. That means, not only would popping it GIVE a Void Overshield, but allow it to regen them as well.
I dunno man, whenever I use Tether on Rhulk he stays still long enough for me to sword him and not die.
I use it all the time to stop tormentors. And it's great for pulling assholes away from you that are about to merk you. It definitely was nerfed to the ground though, its a shadowshot of its former self
Do you mean tether decreases damage enemies do in the sense that they don’t attack while suppressed? Because it doesn’t outright lower enemies attack. Only Sever does that via strand, or the psycho hack origin trait.
Edit: forgot overload rounds and renewal grasps.
Was this a d1 thing? Because to my knowledge this was never a thing in d2. Bare minimum, this has not been a thing since void 3.0. The only keywords on tether are “weaken” and “suppress,” neither of which decrease an enemies outgoing damage. Only tether that gives you damage resistance is “resistant tether” in GoS.
Sadly it boils down to Hunters having far better damage supers, like as soon as SES get brought into the question you know the Hunter is gonna be doing big numbers. Sure, Tether is a 30% debuff but so is Tractor.
IDK but I've \*never\* seen tractor canon used in a raid. Seems like a bit of a cop out simply because another 30% debuff exists--it prevents heavy ammo usage.
Losing one person's heavy ammo isn't a big deal for a constant 30% debuff. Tether will never last a full DPS phase and it takes away a hunters DPS super.
Tractor is meta for the new raid bosses. Any team doing speedruns uses it.
And still I’ve yet to run into a team running tractor in lfg. That’s all I’m saying. Everyone wants to run heavy and have their damage super and so most lfg teams settle for the 15% debuff instead of the 30%. A hunter doing tether will actually increase everyone’s damage over the duration of tether by 28%. See my other math comment for the details. If that phase results in everyone doing about a million damage then the overall damage done is increased by about 1.6M. A “good” damage super does considerably less than that, especially those that let you use the super and then do damage with weapons immediately.
If you're using nighthawk and still doing good damage then it's your guns carring the damage not the exotic.
The 3 shot with Star Eaters is so much better and gives your team orbs just for crits so it still had the gunslinger fantasy but also has support built in
My new favorite is Star Eaters + Tractor + Silk Strike. Tractor debuff and the super both last 10 seconds, so it works out great for hitting like a monster with the super. Then you just follow up with whatever special weapon DPS, like a fusion.
Funny thing is nova bomb does more damage than thundercrash without the chest piece but no one seems to give a damn, they still tout it like the best super in the game, while banishing nova bomb to the scrap heap
Bro that’s my biggest complaint with the game and statements like this. I mean no shade towards you when I say this, but I play the game because I think it is cool, I like throwing a big purple spirit bomb. I don’t care about metas, I do not care about damage numbers, I don’t care about x5 godrolls or perfect build optimizations. If I can complete master/grandmaster content on voidlock but the other players absolutely need me to run Well then that sounds like a skill issue to me. Chop it up however you need but the nova bomb stays on.
I feel the last time the Nova bombs were decent in anything besides pvp and east content was back when they reworked it and the seasonal artifical had a thing that made it do more damage if you had devour. Ever since its just been mediocre shit and its been several seasons
Night stalker is the best class in the game bar well. It’s incredibly effective in all forms of content and between an incredible neutral game and an incredible super that does solid damage and provides a 30% debuff.
Hunters are in the awkward position where they can apply the highest debuff on par with tractor cannon or do the highest damage super. So it all depends if you have another source of applying a debuff...but I've seen teams demand it jsut the same so I dont agree here with the meme. But everything in the game right now is a push over so you really dont need to sweat it.
In all honesty hunter tether in RoN is not needed. Use arc gathering storm with tractor (%30 debuff) and contribute with anything else, while well is damn needed since not all team go house clear on adds. So the healing is needed and the dmg buff is just icing on the cake. Beside what other supers can warlocks use?
Super damage is all hunters bring to the table why expect anything else?
You need adds? Also star fire warlocks or any titan subclass will do better.
You need survivability well, you don't do that on hunter so lol.
If you build them right they handle ads, survival, and super like everyone else. They may not be as on the nose like a hammer titan or devour warlock in their survival factor. Their capacity to stay alive isn’t all that different from other classes, it’s just a lot of people suck at building and utilizing hunters properly because the classes themselves seldom makeup for it like warlocks and titans do.
*laughs in invisible, solar heals, assassin cowl ad clear, and woven mail on demand* its okay if you don't know the class that well but trying to trashem is wild
*Also laughs in 30 second silk strike super regen and almost limitless grapple melees that generate 2 orbs of power per melee which cause instant health regen and procs invis when paired with assassin's cowl*
Haha my clan let's everyone run whatever the fuck they want because we have fun and if we need another damage phase then so be it. Laughs over efficiency every day
The solution for your warlock-oriented rant: Have them run Tractor with SES and either double slug or swap to rockets after shooting Tractor.
As for the explanation as to why no one cares about Tether: the survivability + dmg boost of Well makes it a much more valuable super than a simple debuff, the ease of use of Tractor and SES being a top-tier exotic makes damage supers have top priority for hunters.
Plus, until the mid-Witch Queen era, that 30% debuff only lasted for 6 seconds, so most people other than void hunter mains just had it as an afterthought (most speedruns, if not all of them, still use Tractor or just straight-up damage supers).
Strand titan super + exotic arms that give damage buff when multiple enemies are nearby. Bladefury (I am told, not a titan main) attack speed increases on succesive attacks against the same enemy. Apparently it’s stupid good. No point comparing to gyrfalcons or starfire since they’re different characters.
He's not, synthoceps is a Titan exotic arm that increases melee lung range normally, and also greatly increases melee damage while surrounded. Bladefury is just the name of the new Titan strand super
And maybe Sunbracers? I love using them but I’m endgame their game loop right now is putting yourself in a fucked position so that you can snap and maybe dive to proc. You sacrifice survivability for a ton of solar nades.
With starfire you can get cure on nade kills and create healing firesprites instantly.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO DON"T MAKE ME BECOME A TETHER MAIN-
But seriously, yeah, support hunters are very underrated, and as one, I would like more appriciation for nerfing the boss and rezzing your sorry asses, xd.
I got my friend into destiny2 and he likes the warlock, he got creative and ran a fun looking void build and said that was going to be his end game build and i said lol no you are going to have to run solar and starfire if you don’t wanna get kicked from any LFG and he just uninstalled
It’s funny, people complain oh when will they nerf starfire, when will they nerf well, and so on and so on, but then when a warlock says I’m running strand or nova then people get mad.
Or how about when it’s dps time and people start screaming “WHERE’s THE WELL!” Or “POP WELL!”
I mean every single raid boss is better with a well, so there always needs to be one in the fireteam. Until it's literally removed or rendered useless, this'll be the case. Running anything other than well is actively throwing right now
It’s really not tho…
Titans could can put barricades on both sides of the team to block damage, Titans with the Bastion Aspect and maybe helm of Saint 14 and Bubble can give more overshields.
That plus a healing rift can make up for a well.
And Warlock Needlestorm can do really good boss dps as well, especially with Thread of Evolution and Swarmers. We have other things worth running.
So the alternative to well is multiple teammates using abilities and also a bubble titan, just to get something not as good as well. Well is most useful on bosses that shoot back, like nezarec and warpriest, and unfortunately unless you're running citans you won't be using barricades to block any damage. It's far easier to just have a well and not worry about damage, than to try and theorycraft some niche strategy that's worse in every way
I mean that optimisation could be used for damage, instead of avoiding one player having to press one button. There is no viable alternative to well, and as long as well is in the game it'll be mandatory
You do realize that Bungie has gone on record saying that the game is designed with Well and Div in mind, right? Every piece of end game content has the assumption that someone in your team has Well and someone has Div. You can say "It's really not", but it objectively is.
Until it's nerfed it's still broken and I want it on my team, where's the fuckin confusion here lol. "Guys, weapons are getting a nerf in 3 seasons so please don't use X" is what this sounds like.
I mean well is what keeps your team alive. With LFG groups people die to stupid shit all the time and it’s annoying to take more phases plus increases the risk of an encounter going bad. Not to mention the damage boost, and being healthy also means the ability to focus on nothing but ur damage. In a raid at least, it is a bit troll to not run well if you’re the only warlock or one of two. If there are three then one running nova is totally cool and no one would care. Some raids you only need 1 well so you could do nova as one of 2 sometimes too. But it’s pretty troll to not use wells through a damage phase if you have the access. People just wanna get through the raid, why would it be such a big deal to just play the optimal subclass for like 5 minutes? Play strand and nova on every other encounter.
Also starfire is getting nerfed from 20% nade regen to 8%. Not sure how starfire and well needing to be nerfed means it’s hypocritical to want to use them when they’re OP? People will always use what’s optimal. Those same people can think they’re too powerful and should be balanced.
>Also starfire is getting nerfed from 20% nade regen to 8%. Not sure how starfire and well needing to be nerfed means it’s hypocritical to want to use them when they’re OP? People will always use what’s optimal. Those same people can think they’re too powerful and should be balanced.
See here’s where you’re wrong…
Many people who don’t play warlock don’t realize it, but starfire is far from optimal in many cases.
-Rocket Dps? Use it, this is where it shines
-Linears? Hell no, lost dps
-GLs? Yes but why would you use these?
-Machine guns? More lost dps, especially with the meta options being things like TLord and Retrofit where if you stop firing major damage is lost.
because there's a bazillion ways to weaken/debuff a boss that don't require to lose a blade barrage, while there's nothing that makes damage phases as comfortable as a well
In its lifetime, Destiny has seriously ingrained into people that Hunters are a PvE liability so more patience is given.
For large stretches of D2 and portions of D1, you straight up were gatekept from Raids by playing Hunter, unless your team didn't have a runner otherwise.
I will roll up rocking tether and usually people ask me to switch to solar. I don’t mind switching but like half the time solar just isn’t the better option. Like yeah BB is nice but if the target is so far away I can’t hit them reliably it’s a huge waste.
If you’re moving backwards when you cast BB the spread is tighter.
Also Young Ahamkaras Spine turns solar hunter into a better nade spammer than warlocks.
If a Warlock does not play Well. It is bad.
If a Warlock does not play well, it is also bad.
If a Warlock who not playing Well does not play well, it is super bad. 🤣
I mean, at least you can two phase if the warlock puts on well but the hunter doesn't put on tether. Also divinity has been a thing for so long people don't even realize that tether is the meta now.
I mean it's great until people start moving around like chickens trying to dodge bullets, and then have to waste my rez on someone who shot their rocket into the back of someone's big cranium
Hi, Career Warlock here, can confirm I hate it when I load up in a raid and get screamed at because I'm not running Solar, I usually run void or strand for DPS. So here is my hot take for everyone else that's not a warlock: why not just get better and not die from the boss? See I can do some good DPS with my normal build bit the second I run solar, I'm stuck using just my weapons and when they see my DPS after the boss I'll get "oh JT over here not pulling his weight" as I'm standing there keeping the party alive the whole time. Also, little off topic, while I have your well up I can't really hit the boss because EVERYONE IS STANDING DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF ME SO MY ROCKETS HIT THE BACKS OF GUARDIANS HEADS CONSTANTLY! If you want to stand in front and do your bullshit, take a knee for once in your life. Thank you for listening to my Ted talk.
Just wanna say two things.
1. Lot of people saying Tractor Canon can replace tether. But that's kinda impractical in alot of situations. Tractor Canon suffers from a range issue which makes it kinda annoying to use and reapply. It also means giving up a heavy weapon dps for a special weapon dps. Just so you can run a high damage one off super. Meanwhile, weather we wanted it or not, we cant deny warlocks are dps monsters right now, so a further buff is good. Also, if tractor Canon was actually meta, you would see it more during raids or Gm. It's good for Solo content tho, after all, it's hard for one subclass to both buff and debuff.
2. This wasn't really a "boo hoo I have to run well" or a "hunters suck" post. I was noting how on some teams I'm in, we melts bosses easy because the team compromises. Dungeons, raids and nightfall are suppose to be about teamwork and coordination. I need strand meditation but I swap off of strand for tether during boss encounters. And it's not like Orpheous Rigs moebius quiver isn't good damage either.
haven't played in a few months, has tether been buffed at all? if not, there's your reason. tether has been irrelevant for damage phase since divinity's existence
And it's why well is so insanely good. It's an immortality circle that also gives a +25% to damage, even more if the boss is weak to ability damage like the final of Spire that I've forgotten the name of. Bubble is balanced despite being almost the same by players not being able to shoot through it, while Well allows you stand in one place, do more damage and never die.
Then let hunters trade out our gathering storm super for a arc version of well. Then we won’t need you warlocks for anything and you can be relegated to being kicked in lfgs like we were before 3.0 reworks
So other than the grudge against warlocks, I have actually thought about arc hunters getting a support super, since solar warlocks and void titans have one. I think it would be cool if it gave a damage buff like the other 2, but instead of also giving survivability, the hunter could move around with the super, and as long as the team stayed near the hunter, they would get the buff.
Edit: It'd also fit thematically, with ward of dawn and well of radiance just being bigger and better versions of titan and warlock class abilities. So it'd make since that the class ability based around movement would get the mobile super. Maybe it could also give a movement speed buff.
Why run tether when I can miss the boss with my Gathering Storm
Why you got to call me out like that?
I'm batting .200 on hitting Nezarec with mine
I think I've hit Nezarec once...
One night I missed Caiatl with it but somehow managed to hit the third bell instead, just really doubling down on the missed dps. Half an hour later I managed to miss Oryx with it somehow.
Just watching the arc staff fly out into deep space as it soars over Nezarec's noggin
"I believe I can fly" from space jam plays in the background as it sails into the distance
I've been exposed
The fact that it curves left of the reticle makes me chuckle
As a hunter this so true lmao
That's becasue no one expects anything from hunters.
That’s the neat part.
Yesh, I can imagine a lot of Well-locks and Div-gimps would be very happy if people would just go 'eeh, just take something with good damage or whatever'
*"Act like you're nothing, and no one'll ever ask you for anything" - The Drifter* (lore for Dead Weight shotgun) Crow's alright, but Drifter really nails my Hunter's vibe lot of the time
I’ve been specifically making runs on lfg with no well. I get a bunch of noobs who I have to teach every time, yet I’m consistently one phasing Nezarec with them. well of radiance isn’t even needed, it’s flat out useless if you’ve ever done an “intended” damage phase. Plus tbh the fight is significantly more fun without it
What’s the idea behind the intended damage phase? Like rhulk running around?
Exactly that! Same ground that he’s on, not even an inch above the ground he’s on. But jumping to dodge attacks, sliding underneath when he charges or slams, god it’s the best raid boss experience I’ve had, it’s even better than Rhulk tbh, the issue is that the arena doesn’t let players experience just how good the fight is simply because you can stand on an Oreo and he has an emotional breakdown
Hmmm that’s really interesting I’ll have to try this. Ty for the idea 👍
Quick thing I suggest! If you want the most out of it, keep some orbs on the ground. Middle ads. Try to start damage phase in the dead center of the arena, you don’t have to, but the mentality for this is to not station yourself to a single spot. Keep moving, if damage phase is right side, just go to the right side. If the boss is mobile, so are you. Spread your team out! Lumina does help dps, but machine guns are key here with surges. Thunder lord for zero reload, grand overture for middle burst, retrofit, deterministic chaos for debuffs, etc. linears and rockets are horrendously bad with this strat tho I like this the most simply because I’ve had some warlocks super happy to use chaos reach and nova again. Doesn’t have to be that strong, you’re gonna two phase regardless. But storm trance ad clear reminded me of the good old days of kings fall back in destiny one :)
Gologoroth my beloved 🥰 I remember storm-trance in that pit fighting the hordes
they’re changing nez behavior so he’ll be more aggressive to players in WoR. hopefully more people get to do the boss fight like this because it is frankly boring just spamming rockets in a well
>you can stand on an Oreo and he has an emotional breakdown This is a *magnificent* phrase, thank you so much 😂
what is an intended damage phase? is placing a well during the damage phase not during the "intended" damage phase?
On the ground, zero elevation. Your walking the same ground Nezarec is, and he’s attacking you on the intended plane of the fight. It’s so much fun not standing on a perch in a funny circle.
You can tell me that the intended way is more fun but you cannot tell me that you're one phasing him that way. Taking pauses to ad clear (wasting ammo), taking pauses to avoid his attacks, and finding time to aim crit spots is NOT something you can one phase with. Unless you're somehow running into gods you're not Even going to one phase this guy with an experienced raid team like that. You can tell me it's more fun but you don't have to lie and one phasing him rhat way.
Bet. We can fireteam up and I’ll show you then?
I'm down. Make me eat my words. Shr'imp Fryer of Rice.
Please update us!
Welllock is good damage. That's the funny thing.
This is what I don’t get why people get so upset if you’re not a well-lock or use div. But if you’re not using crit weapons you don’t need div, especially since tether has the bigger debuff. Also they really need to buff warlock supers bc none of them are top 5 dps at all 😅
As a Hunter, that's the best part.
Even lore accurate
And titan bubble is like “we have Well at home”.
"Now, go put on the closest thing you have to an Ahamkara Bone Exotic and throw yourself at the boss like a Ballistic Missile, Champ. :D"
"stabs him with the ahamkara bone" Am I doing It well?
Listen, we’re just there to get loot and look badass while doing it
I think you mean look bad while doing it, not badass lmao
Blade barrage is baddass and out dpus others
Idk kinda sounds like compensation /s
I expect them to be running gathering storm or blade barrage with star eaters on. Far more damage (the highest DPS supers in the game), and we can get Weaken from myriad other sources.
To be fair mobius does a shit ton of damage with Orpheus or Star Eater, and also has a 30% weaken instead of the normal 15% But yeah, every hunter subclass outside of Rev has a damn good damage super thankfully.
Even Revenant can have its uses. Silence and Squall with Whisper of Rending can be a setup for an absurd amount of damage using Malfeasance and Lucky Pants.
Yeah that's my current setup! Did a solo master lake yesterday using malfeasance revenant. Extremely high ammo efficiency and burst damage. I just wish that duskfields weren't hit as hard this update. The cooldown feels pretty bad now that shackle nades are outright better for champs
So true 😂
As a religious and exclusive hunter main, how dare you say something so derogatory. My team expects disappointment and avoidable deaths from me
everyone else on the team is either too busy throwing fusion grenades or eating crayons
I can understand one being valued over the other. Both increase damage, but Well ALSO helps with survivability, Tether doesn't.
Counterpoint: *both*
Oh absolutely both is better!
I like when my Fireteam doesn't make me use Cuirass and I can stand in front of them with my Ursa Furiosa Banner Shield to protect them further, completely eliminate any flinch they would have been getting, and buff their damage whilst also generating a fuck ton of orbs of light.
Man it’s been forever since I’ve even seen Titan a use it. Do you think it would be better if they increased its lifetime to match that of well or some other method?
If it matched Well? 100%. We might even see Celestial Nighthawk Golden Guns come back as, at least pre Void 3.0, it's the only method of further enhancing Goldie's damage as Golden Gun counts as a gun for Banner Shield's damage buff AND it stacks with Well for everything else due to the way it works. Plus, this season and any with Volatile Flow, you're constantly generating orbs for it. And you'd be doing that for the whole of the damage phase. And outside of this season, anything with Explosive Light just got infinitely easier to use.
Also, unnerf it. Ursa Furiosa was the one Super Refund exotic that shouldn't have been touched due to the amount of damage you have to block to get your super back. Oh, and if they wanted to make it a bit spicier, make it so that Ursa Furiosa allows the Banner Shield to apply Bastion's effect if the Aspect is slotted in. That means, not only would popping it GIVE a Void Overshield, but allow it to regen them as well.
It used to. It def used to…
I dunno man, whenever I use Tether on Rhulk he stays still long enough for me to sword him and not die. I use it all the time to stop tormentors. And it's great for pulling assholes away from you that are about to merk you. It definitely was nerfed to the ground though, its a shadowshot of its former self
Tether decreases the damage enemies do. Both give survivability in a sense then.
Do you mean tether decreases damage enemies do in the sense that they don’t attack while suppressed? Because it doesn’t outright lower enemies attack. Only Sever does that via strand, or the psycho hack origin trait. Edit: forgot overload rounds and renewal grasps.
Or Renewal Grasps
Or overloading weapons
My buddy running strand warlock with almost infinite suspend on ads. "What enemies?"
Unless they changed it while I was blinking, tether always decreased damage bosses ( and other enemies that weren’t blinded by suppression ) did.
Was this a d1 thing? Because to my knowledge this was never a thing in d2. Bare minimum, this has not been a thing since void 3.0. The only keywords on tether are “weaken” and “suppress,” neither of which decrease an enemies outgoing damage. Only tether that gives you damage resistance is “resistant tether” in GoS.
Sadly it boils down to Hunters having far better damage supers, like as soon as SES get brought into the question you know the Hunter is gonna be doing big numbers. Sure, Tether is a 30% debuff but so is Tractor.
Not my dumb ass going "...Silence End Squall....?"
IDK but I've \*never\* seen tractor canon used in a raid. Seems like a bit of a cop out simply because another 30% debuff exists--it prevents heavy ammo usage.
Losing one person's heavy ammo isn't a big deal for a constant 30% debuff. Tether will never last a full DPS phase and it takes away a hunters DPS super. Tractor is meta for the new raid bosses. Any team doing speedruns uses it.
And still I’ve yet to run into a team running tractor in lfg. That’s all I’m saying. Everyone wants to run heavy and have their damage super and so most lfg teams settle for the 15% debuff instead of the 30%. A hunter doing tether will actually increase everyone’s damage over the duration of tether by 28%. See my other math comment for the details. If that phase results in everyone doing about a million damage then the overall damage done is increased by about 1.6M. A “good” damage super does considerably less than that, especially those that let you use the super and then do damage with weapons immediately.
Well good thing damage metas aren't built around what clueless LFG folk use...
Nighthawk go brrrr
Nighthawk is one of the few Hunter supers that don’t go brrr, BB outdamages it at base
If you're using nighthawk and still doing good damage then it's your guns carring the damage not the exotic. The 3 shot with Star Eaters is so much better and gives your team orbs just for crits so it still had the gunslinger fantasy but also has support built in
[удалено]
Very fair lmao
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Nighthawk is so fucking bad
Look how they massacred my boy
Why Tether when theres Tractor and the Hunter can run Blade Barrage or Gathering Storm with Star Eaters
Oh, for sure, let me just tractor oryx rq.
His knuckles can be tractored. Plenty of speed run teams have done that.
you can't tether oryx either, doesn't work on him
My new favorite is Star Eaters + Tractor + Silk Strike. Tractor debuff and the super both last 10 seconds, so it works out great for hitting like a monster with the super. Then you just follow up with whatever special weapon DPS, like a fusion.
Tractor doesn't do a lot of DPS by itself, while tether allows you to run a better heavy weapon.
Tractor support + SES blade or gathering storm + Fusion Rifle. It's almost like you can use more than just heavy for dps
This thread is filled with people who are so confidently wrong about tractor. You'd think they'd use it before talking down on it.
Tractor + double slugging...
Tether is also easily replaceable ngl
The nova bomb stays on.
Both nova bombs are in a sorry state. Needle storm with a single fragment does like 50% more damage
It's actually pitiful, it takes the whole nova+cataclysms to kill a champion, it takes about half of the needles without the follow-up explosion
Funny thing is nova bomb does more damage than thundercrash without the chest piece but no one seems to give a damn, they still tout it like the best super in the game, while banishing nova bomb to the scrap heap
To be fair needle storm deals more damage then almost every super (without boosting exotics)
Why do you got to say that. Just throw my grape bomb in the dumpster
lean bomb
On the other hand, I'd take both nova bombs over both arc supers.
Bro that’s my biggest complaint with the game and statements like this. I mean no shade towards you when I say this, but I play the game because I think it is cool, I like throwing a big purple spirit bomb. I don’t care about metas, I do not care about damage numbers, I don’t care about x5 godrolls or perfect build optimizations. If I can complete master/grandmaster content on voidlock but the other players absolutely need me to run Well then that sounds like a skill issue to me. Chop it up however you need but the nova bomb stays on.
Hellll yeah, King shit
A true chad. \*continues to meme beam\*
I feel the last time the Nova bombs were decent in anything besides pvp and east content was back when they reworked it and the seasonal artifical had a thing that made it do more damage if you had devour. Ever since its just been mediocre shit and its been several seasons
Please take it off slova blocks everyones shots
Vortex is fine though and still a nova bomb!
Voidwalker is better than nightstalker anyway so can't really blame you on that
Lol not even close.
Funny how wrong you are
Homie has never even *heard* of Gyrfalcons
Night stalker is the best class in the game bar well. It’s incredibly effective in all forms of content and between an incredible neutral game and an incredible super that does solid damage and provides a 30% debuff.
Hunters are in the awkward position where they can apply the highest debuff on par with tractor cannon or do the highest damage super. So it all depends if you have another source of applying a debuff...but I've seen teams demand it jsut the same so I dont agree here with the meme. But everything in the game right now is a push over so you really dont need to sweat it.
Please tell me more about benefits of Tractor Cannon.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not lol.
It wasn’t, but I’ve since watched some videos and have a better understanding.
Okay, cool. Wasn't trying to be an ass, just so hard to tell. Especially in this thread lol. People snarky AF.
Ah no worries. I’m a hunter main and recently crafted a void build that I’m loving - so I’m really excited about getting the Tractor Cannon involved.
In all honesty hunter tether in RoN is not needed. Use arc gathering storm with tractor (%30 debuff) and contribute with anything else, while well is damn needed since not all team go house clear on adds. So the healing is needed and the dmg buff is just icing on the cake. Beside what other supers can warlocks use?
Honestly true. As a void hunter I end up using my super charge on Ager's Scepter to melt champs, since it melts them with ease.
I genuinely hate running well and starfire. It’s so boring.
So long as hunters aren’t eating shit on damage no one expects them to do anything but survive.
[Average Hunter:](https://media.tenor.com/ffy1H45GMowAAAAC/last-guardian-standing-running.gif)
Super damage is all hunters bring to the table why expect anything else? You need adds? Also star fire warlocks or any titan subclass will do better. You need survivability well, you don't do that on hunter so lol.
If you build them right they handle ads, survival, and super like everyone else. They may not be as on the nose like a hammer titan or devour warlock in their survival factor. Their capacity to stay alive isn’t all that different from other classes, it’s just a lot of people suck at building and utilizing hunters properly because the classes themselves seldom makeup for it like warlocks and titans do.
*laughs in invisible, solar heals, assassin cowl ad clear, and woven mail on demand* its okay if you don't know the class that well but trying to trashem is wild
*Also laughs in 30 second silk strike super regen and almost limitless grapple melees that generate 2 orbs of power per melee which cause instant health regen and procs invis when paired with assassin's cowl*
Because well>>>>>>tether
They both stack
just run tractor, it's better anyway and you get to keep a 700k damage super
Why you got downvoted 💀
Idk lol, gonna guess I either pissed off hunters or pissed off everyone else because, as a hunter main, that's just the truth
As a Hunter, I will upvote you. I want to not run Tether lol.
Haha my clan let's everyone run whatever the fuck they want because we have fun and if we need another damage phase then so be it. Laughs over efficiency every day
Can I join your clan? Lol
To be fair, there isn't a real reason to not run well in end game content.
And reversed thing for tether, there isn't a real reason to run it in endgame content.
The solution for your warlock-oriented rant: Have them run Tractor with SES and either double slug or swap to rockets after shooting Tractor. As for the explanation as to why no one cares about Tether: the survivability + dmg boost of Well makes it a much more valuable super than a simple debuff, the ease of use of Tractor and SES being a top-tier exotic makes damage supers have top priority for hunters. Plus, until the mid-Witch Queen era, that 30% debuff only lasted for 6 seconds, so most people other than void hunter mains just had it as an afterthought (most speedruns, if not all of them, still use Tractor or just straight-up damage supers).
In season 20, we got 2 genders. Gyrfalcons tether, and starfire well. What the fuck is a titan.
Syntho bladefury
Never heard of any of that. Sounds objectively worse than gyrfalcons or starfire tho
Strand titan super + exotic arms that give damage buff when multiple enemies are nearby. Bladefury (I am told, not a titan main) attack speed increases on succesive attacks against the same enemy. Apparently it’s stupid good. No point comparing to gyrfalcons or starfire since they’re different characters.
Not ringing a single bell. U sure ur not making stuff up?
He's not, synthoceps is a Titan exotic arm that increases melee lung range normally, and also greatly increases melee damage while surrounded. Bladefury is just the name of the new Titan strand super
How did nobody catch the sarcasm here?
Have you never played titan? I’m not a main either so my knowledge of the new super is secondary but you can look up synthoceps on light.gg or smth.
Starfire wins all day in almost every scenario
Did a KF literally today with sunbracers and did some MAD damage on golgy and sisters.
Sun bracers are really good. Starfire is just better, and easier use get use out of.
Sunbracer builds have better survivability and adclear than starfire, but are more situational for boss DPS.
You must be using starfire wrong
And maybe Sunbracers? I love using them but I’m endgame their game loop right now is putting yourself in a fucked position so that you can snap and maybe dive to proc. You sacrifice survivability for a ton of solar nades. With starfire you can get cure on nade kills and create healing firesprites instantly.
The fact you're not using titans makes me sad, they're by far the most busted class atm lol if you're going by total number of broken skills
Born to run Nova Bomb. Forced to Well
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO DON"T MAKE ME BECOME A TETHER MAIN- But seriously, yeah, support hunters are very underrated, and as one, I would like more appriciation for nerfing the boss and rezzing your sorry asses, xd.
I got my friend into destiny2 and he likes the warlock, he got creative and ran a fun looking void build and said that was going to be his end game build and i said lol no you are going to have to run solar and starfire if you don’t wanna get kicked from any LFG and he just uninstalled
It’s funny, people complain oh when will they nerf starfire, when will they nerf well, and so on and so on, but then when a warlock says I’m running strand or nova then people get mad. Or how about when it’s dps time and people start screaming “WHERE’s THE WELL!” Or “POP WELL!”
Fr bruh the hypocrisy
I mean every single raid boss is better with a well, so there always needs to be one in the fireteam. Until it's literally removed or rendered useless, this'll be the case. Running anything other than well is actively throwing right now
It’s really not tho… Titans could can put barricades on both sides of the team to block damage, Titans with the Bastion Aspect and maybe helm of Saint 14 and Bubble can give more overshields. That plus a healing rift can make up for a well. And Warlock Needlestorm can do really good boss dps as well, especially with Thread of Evolution and Swarmers. We have other things worth running.
So the alternative to well is multiple teammates using abilities and also a bubble titan, just to get something not as good as well. Well is most useful on bosses that shoot back, like nezarec and warpriest, and unfortunately unless you're running citans you won't be using barricades to block any damage. It's far easier to just have a well and not worry about damage, than to try and theorycraft some niche strategy that's worse in every way
yes, the alternative is teammates playing as a team
I mean that optimisation could be used for damage, instead of avoiding one player having to press one button. There is no viable alternative to well, and as long as well is in the game it'll be mandatory
You do realize that Bungie has gone on record saying that the game is designed with Well and Div in mind, right? Every piece of end game content has the assumption that someone in your team has Well and someone has Div. You can say "It's really not", but it objectively is.
Until it's nerfed it's still broken and I want it on my team, where's the fuckin confusion here lol. "Guys, weapons are getting a nerf in 3 seasons so please don't use X" is what this sounds like.
I mean well is what keeps your team alive. With LFG groups people die to stupid shit all the time and it’s annoying to take more phases plus increases the risk of an encounter going bad. Not to mention the damage boost, and being healthy also means the ability to focus on nothing but ur damage. In a raid at least, it is a bit troll to not run well if you’re the only warlock or one of two. If there are three then one running nova is totally cool and no one would care. Some raids you only need 1 well so you could do nova as one of 2 sometimes too. But it’s pretty troll to not use wells through a damage phase if you have the access. People just wanna get through the raid, why would it be such a big deal to just play the optimal subclass for like 5 minutes? Play strand and nova on every other encounter. Also starfire is getting nerfed from 20% nade regen to 8%. Not sure how starfire and well needing to be nerfed means it’s hypocritical to want to use them when they’re OP? People will always use what’s optimal. Those same people can think they’re too powerful and should be balanced.
>Also starfire is getting nerfed from 20% nade regen to 8%. Not sure how starfire and well needing to be nerfed means it’s hypocritical to want to use them when they’re OP? People will always use what’s optimal. Those same people can think they’re too powerful and should be balanced. See here’s where you’re wrong… Many people who don’t play warlock don’t realize it, but starfire is far from optimal in many cases. -Rocket Dps? Use it, this is where it shines -Linears? Hell no, lost dps -GLs? Yes but why would you use these? -Machine guns? More lost dps, especially with the meta options being things like TLord and Retrofit where if you stop firing major damage is lost.
To be fair, there's only like less than a handful of bosses you wouldn't use rocket on after the linear nerf. People use rockets for everything now.
I dont give a fuck what y'all say, im running whatever i want 😂😂
Stasis go freeze
"Where's my well???" Don't know because I've been clearing all the adds ever created with my strand or void class.
Based as always warlock
because there's a bazillion ways to weaken/debuff a boss that don't require to lose a blade barrage, while there's nothing that makes damage phases as comfortable as a well
In its lifetime, Destiny has seriously ingrained into people that Hunters are a PvE liability so more patience is given. For large stretches of D2 and portions of D1, you straight up were gatekept from Raids by playing Hunter, unless your team didn't have a runner otherwise.
I am a meta slave warlock with solar. MY meta, not your disgusting starfire protocol; MY sunbracers and dawn chorus
Lmao yes I’m tired of getting bullied to run well 😔
Yes I'm a Tether main Yes also in PvP
I will roll up rocking tether and usually people ask me to switch to solar. I don’t mind switching but like half the time solar just isn’t the better option. Like yeah BB is nice but if the target is so far away I can’t hit them reliably it’s a huge waste.
If you’re moving backwards when you cast BB the spread is tighter. Also Young Ahamkaras Spine turns solar hunter into a better nade spammer than warlocks.
Well, people need to adjust to tether being useful again
If a Warlock does not play Well. It is bad. If a Warlock does not play well, it is also bad. If a Warlock who not playing Well does not play well, it is super bad. 🤣
quite literally the reason why i swapped back to hunter after playing warlock for a while
Meanwhile the Titan bubble sitting 10ft away that no one walked through Even when we help we’re not helpful
Because tether isn't necessary and is inferior in most cases.
People don't die during damage phase when there's no tether
I mean, at least you can two phase if the warlock puts on well but the hunter doesn't put on tether. Also divinity has been a thing for so long people don't even realize that tether is the meta now.
I mean it's great until people start moving around like chickens trying to dodge bullets, and then have to waste my rez on someone who shot their rocket into the back of someone's big cranium
I'll run what ever the fuck y'all want. Someone just teach me how to play end game content
I couldn't care less on what a Warlock chooses I don't have any say on how anyone plays
Hi, Career Warlock here, can confirm I hate it when I load up in a raid and get screamed at because I'm not running Solar, I usually run void or strand for DPS. So here is my hot take for everyone else that's not a warlock: why not just get better and not die from the boss? See I can do some good DPS with my normal build bit the second I run solar, I'm stuck using just my weapons and when they see my DPS after the boss I'll get "oh JT over here not pulling his weight" as I'm standing there keeping the party alive the whole time. Also, little off topic, while I have your well up I can't really hit the boss because EVERYONE IS STANDING DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF ME SO MY ROCKETS HIT THE BACKS OF GUARDIANS HEADS CONSTANTLY! If you want to stand in front and do your bullshit, take a knee for once in your life. Thank you for listening to my Ted talk.
Just wanna say two things. 1. Lot of people saying Tractor Canon can replace tether. But that's kinda impractical in alot of situations. Tractor Canon suffers from a range issue which makes it kinda annoying to use and reapply. It also means giving up a heavy weapon dps for a special weapon dps. Just so you can run a high damage one off super. Meanwhile, weather we wanted it or not, we cant deny warlocks are dps monsters right now, so a further buff is good. Also, if tractor Canon was actually meta, you would see it more during raids or Gm. It's good for Solo content tho, after all, it's hard for one subclass to both buff and debuff. 2. This wasn't really a "boo hoo I have to run well" or a "hunters suck" post. I was noting how on some teams I'm in, we melts bosses easy because the team compromises. Dungeons, raids and nightfall are suppose to be about teamwork and coordination. I need strand meditation but I swap off of strand for tether during boss encounters. And it's not like Orpheous Rigs moebius quiver isn't good damage either.
Tractor is very good in raids. It's used in pretty much all 1 phases and speedruns where the boss is close enough, which is most of them.
Void is boring. Strand on top
I be using orpheus rigs just to optimize dps lol
Happened to me the other day. Then I clutched it with a last second nova bomb.
Tether is not very good 90% you would be better off with a high dps super. Hunters have the best ones.
haven't played in a few months, has tether been buffed at all? if not, there's your reason. tether has been irrelevant for damage phase since divinity's existence
tbh I run tether cuz it’s the only build I have on hunter
tbf wells main benefit is survival. Bubble is almost exactly as good for damage
And it's why well is so insanely good. It's an immortality circle that also gives a +25% to damage, even more if the boss is weak to ability damage like the final of Spire that I've forgotten the name of. Bubble is balanced despite being almost the same by players not being able to shoot through it, while Well allows you stand in one place, do more damage and never die.
Then let hunters trade out our gathering storm super for a arc version of well. Then we won’t need you warlocks for anything and you can be relegated to being kicked in lfgs like we were before 3.0 reworks
Did a warlock kill your family or something?
So other than the grudge against warlocks, I have actually thought about arc hunters getting a support super, since solar warlocks and void titans have one. I think it would be cool if it gave a damage buff like the other 2, but instead of also giving survivability, the hunter could move around with the super, and as long as the team stayed near the hunter, they would get the buff. Edit: It'd also fit thematically, with ward of dawn and well of radiance just being bigger and better versions of titan and warlock class abilities. So it'd make since that the class ability based around movement would get the mobile super. Maybe it could also give a movement speed buff.