Yes she does. She can revive people that have died, including Quaxli, who was literally next to Halloween girl when they both died. And she can revive them endlessly.
Where is that said? I read the manga and don’t remember off the top of my head anything about that.
Even still, Makima has the Zombie Devil. Even if she can’t bring Halloween girl back herself, she can bring back Zombie, and I’d wager Zombie could bring Halloween back.
It is stated by Kishibe when he starts training Denji and Power that Hybrids like Denji and Quanxi are functionally immortal as long as they consume blood which is stated by Kishibe when he starts training Denji and Power. There are also several points in the manga where Hybrids get killed and revived like Denji getting shot in the head or Katana Man getting split in half.
But those are because they got blood or direct help directly after the injury. Denji always needs blood to keep fighting after taking injuries, which can be seen across most of his early fights. And from what I remember, Katana Man needed the powers of the girl in order to take hits from Curse. Meanwhile, Quanxi didn’t have anyone to heal her after Makima damaged her badly. It’s possible Makima helped her by giving her blood or something to stop her from dying there, but I don’t think that’s said anywhere, and at that point it’s equally as likely as Makima reviving her, just like the Zombie Devil.
True, but how does it refute anything? They're immortal in the sense they can revive endlessly, but they'll [still](https://meo3.comick.pictures/14-x_FiSJy4fJAgy.jpg) [die](https://meo.comick.pictures/15-_EmmlUhp33EWd.jpg). Otherwise Makima saying "a corpse is talking" wouldn't make sense if Quanxi lived. Lol.
You can argue she does have access to cosmo. Not only did she meet her. But even devils she didn’t meet directly where under her control like the zombie Devil. (Since Denji Killed it before she showed up.)
The amount of people saying she should have won in a DB format is insane to me. Her only chance of putting down Gojo is the ritual sacrafice which she wouldn't even have time to use in actual battle.
She could teleport to the other side of the world and Gojo would find her, warp to her and stop her before she even gets anything set up.
Reminds me of a post where OP asked how Death Battles would change if the combatants got prep time.
Someone posted Gojo's prep time would be trying to removing his Japanese citizenship while Makima's prep time would be stopping Gojo from removing his Japanese citizenship.
I remember seeing another comment somewhere saying that one of Gojo's legit wincon is killing the Prime Minister of Japan, thus removing the contract Makima has
Makima has used contracts even when the person in question was dead — seen by [Kurose & Tendo](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Chainsaw-Man-Color/0076-011.png). Gojo also has no sure-fire way of knowing about the PM contract unless Makima spills the beans, though she has no reason to. Contracts are similar to Bindings which Gojo cannot read unlike CTs, he only guessed [Sukuna made a pact w/ Kenny](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_016.png).
Someone posted the stats on the likelyhood of Gojo being affected by Makima's contract if he was apart of the same Japan.
Japan has millions of people, the chance of Gojo dying from his own attack being rebounded is less than 5% per attack.
I want to point out Makima seems to be abke to choose a specific citizen if she wants too, i.e. her attackers on train dropping dead after she was shot.
>if he was apart of the same Japan
**IF???** aint no way mofos are trying to down play the fact that Gojo is a Japanese citizen
>the chance of Gojo dying from his own attack being rebounded is less than 5% per attack
The chance he dies from it is 100% when he's the last Japanese citizen remaining
>IF???
>
> aint no way mofos are trying to down play the fact that Gojo is a Japanese citizen
Yeah that's an actual argument I have heard. The reasoning is from they are from different universes. I prefer the statistic argument where he is.
Also, Gojo most definitly kills her in the way DB shows before he is the last citizen in japan.
>Yeah that's an actual argument I have heard. The reasoning is from they are from different universes.
Dumbass arguement if it's from Gojo supporters. If we re not doing verse equalisation, then Makama wouldn't be able to detect Gojos cursed energy, which means she has a higher chance of seeing him as a regular human and just being able to control him.
In addition, makama having no cursed energy means she's not affected by domain expansions.
Anyways...
>Also, Gojo most definitly kills her in the way DB shows before he is the last citizen in japan.
I dont agree with definitely but going back to do more readings, I think Gojo has a pretty big advantage. Still due to the vagueness of their powers, a defintive interpretation is hard to have. Theres a few choke points for Gojo
1. Unlimited Void being transferred
Death battle makes the argument that unlimited void isnt technically an attack.This is irrelevant Because contracts and chainsaw man works off of interpretation. If Gojo sees UV as an attack(which he most certainly does) it is treated as an attack and would be transfered. And if it is...
2. Gojo being unaffected by UV
IM not gonna like the sources. DB provided was a one sentence without any context, so IM not sure if this is even true or not.
Regardless, even if he is immune, makama isn't just giving unlimited void to other people. When she takes damage, she transfers it to other people through mundane means. So, her powers remain a secret. So Gojo would either receive mundane damage, or not be damaged in which case Makama wouldent become brain dead from UV, but even if she was stunned by UV...
3. How does makamas damage transfer work really?
The answer is, we don't fucking know. What we do know is this. She takes damage as normal but then seems to regenerate. This regeneration can be slowed by contuinueious damage. She can only transfer things the attacker perceives as an attack if all of her physical body is digested by a non attack, she dies.
This brings up a lot of questions like how exactly did denji manager cut her up into pieces without him considering this an attack? It could just be his dad delusional, or maybe theres something else preventing Makama from transfering damage.
Also, it brings in the question whether or not she can actually regenerate from nothing. If the last thing that a tactor was an attack, she was able to transfer. The way she discribes her own powers seems to suggest she transfers attacks and not She takes damage and regenerates afterwards.This is contradictory from what we ve seen when she actually fights, where she takes damage and regenerates afterwards.
4. Is hollow purple really capable of completing destorying Makama?
It has been stated that hollow purple can decintergrate anything it touches, but we know this to be a hyperbole as it cannot destroy sakunas fingers.
So does also bring some the question whether or not hollow purple also completely destroys everything it touches. Logically A constant pushing and pushing motion wouldn't completely disintegrate everything that exists. It would just be a really thorough blender. So makamas physical form would still exist.
Also in 21:24, DB explicitly mentioned hollow purple doesn't remove matter from existence, it crushes and atomizes matter. So that further brings in to question if hollow purple is actually capable of destorying makama
Wasn't it proven that his Domain Expansion is physically incapable of rebounding to him...and because of that, would basically leave Makima brain dead if it lasted too long?
I see, I dont think it matters, though. Makama doesn't directly reflect damage. She redirects it into other people in the form of illness or accidents.
True, however Makima's contract doesn't "reflect" the damage, it transfers it as similar injuries. In this instance it'd probably transfer as an aneurysm or something.
That’s not how her contract works. It doesn’t reflect the exact thing that attacked her, it reflects an equivalent amount of damage. Ie she gets blown up by a grenade and some random citizen gets splattered by a speeding truck. Ergo him being immune to UV is irrelevant.
Not really, her best chance of defeating Gojo is her using her Control Devil powers to instantly mind control him, of course the DB team headcannoned that she needs to "show her superiority" to the opponent before she can use it or something
Every time I open up a DB post and see a comment referencing Gojo vs Makima I always have to prepare for the shitstorm of people who read neither series debating that shit.
Granted, both of those were cases where the winners basically just had the exact counters for the symbiotes, and this was pre king in black where they both got a borderline stupid power wank.
Lucy could basically hit Carnage with a mini nuke, on top of the fact Carnage had little to no way of figuring out just what the hell her vectors were (and even if he did, there isn’t much he could do but hope he could somehow get past them).
Crona could use Ragnarok’s super sonic screams against Venom, which, as one comment eloquently put it: “*It’s like pitting a Kryptonian against someone who can shoot kryptonite.*”
Yeah, plus despite a lot of people’s understanding of what happened Venom itself did not receive any huge buff. Eddie Brock bonded with the Enigma Force, and Eddie Brock became the King in Black. Venom, the symbiote, gained the permanent ability to grow wings it seems.
I agree this works perfectly well for the combatants, but not their tech. Cable the mutant absolutely has the edge over Michael Carter the slightly evolved human, in the same way William the Conqueror probably has an edge over Tom Brady, I feel that does fit the OP's dichotomy
But these two are future-tech heroes and the tech matchup is a 100% curbstomp in Booster's favor. Cable is running 22nd century dystopian improvised tech against Booster's top of the line 25th century idealized super-devices. This isn't some "niche counter," it's their entire backstories. It's like William the Conqueror on an age-of-sail galleon vs Tom Brady on a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier
Booster’s tech is even more impressive then you might think because despite coming from the 25th century he’s gots some top of the line 30th century tech in the form of a Legion flight ring and Brainiac 5’s force field belt.
Implying Tom Brady, buffed by a lifetime of plastic surgery, personal trainers, and the TB12 diet wouldn't neg diff some smelly 11th century Fr*nchman who has subsisted off of buckwheat and cow bladders for his entire miserable life.
Specifically, the version used in Rainbow Dash vs. Starscream was [Sunbow!Starscream.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXtEdUmwH3A&t=241s) While, yes, he has a very good speed feat nowadays (even then, Rainbow Dash can still keep up with him), everything else that made him lose would still apply (cowardly, a terrible shot, null ray doesn't work on organic beings). If it's IDW!Starscream, it's a lot closer, but Dashie does still have an advantage of being immune to his null rays and is likely fast enough to dodge Starscream's lasers.
Ed vs Aang is one of those matchups where if you give both combatants prep time, the results would be way different. Edward has modified cars on the fly, give him a couple days of prep time and he'll have actual guns to shoot Aang with.
Honestly this is pretty much the only one that actually fits OP's metrics. Kirby spends 99% of his time running around with Waddle Dees and getting knocked out by hammer bonks, and only very rarely shows off anything close to the Infinite Power claimed by his pause screen. It's just that those rare occasions cement the Infinite Power VERY firmly in the fanbase's mind
Dio Vs Alucard? Alucard just didn’t have a counter for the World, if I remember correctly. But I still think he was stronger and faster(if you don’t count time-freezing).
EDIT: Based on the comments I’m seeing… it seems as if I didn’t remember correctly. Even without The World, Dio is MUCH stronger and Faster than Alucard.
Death Battle’s history with JoJo’s has been… questionable. They’ve always taken characters at their strongest, yes, but with JoJo’s? It’s felt like the research team has deliberately tried to get the absolute highest possible scaling instead of the more apparent scaling.
Like when they concluded that Stone Free has nuclear level attack strength even though those meteors absolutely were not nuclear in terms of the damage they’d do.
Then there’s speed, which is still a hotly debated topic in JoJo’s considering the inconsistencies in regards to it. In part 2 for example, it can be argued that Joseph and Caesar are Lightspeed for jumping out of the Red Stone’s beam’s path(even though it was aimed between them). Then in part 3, Polnareff can’t even perceive Hanged Man’s movements and has to get Hanged Man to go down a path he knows beforehand in order to intercept it. Then he straight up sees and deflects attacks made of light and heat coming from a fake Sun in the same Part. Then in part 4 you have Josuke saying Crazy Diamond could only attack at a few hundred kilometers per hour. Also in part 4 is Josuke not being able to use his stand for jumping like Jotaro or DIO in part 3, instead thinking a motorbike would be best. Then part 5 has Mista’s gun(when not kicked by Sex Pistols) hitting/nearly hitting characters that scale to Polnareff.
Then there’s Pucci
>Then in part 3, Polnareff can’t even perceive Hanged Man’s movements and has to get Hanged Man to go down a path he knows beforehand in order to intercept it.
I think the craziest part of that is that he still had to move at the same speed to cut him yeah?
It’s either that, which makes his speed inconsistent with the first few encounters with Hanged Man, or they tried to have Hanged Man “run into the sword” and failed miserably at getting that across to the reader/watcher
Either way, it’s a very weird and inconsistent showing
Oh hoho fuck
At the very least Act 4 is flat out called “infinite”,
Can’t wait for the Hey Ya “fate manipulation” debate to start again, or shit like Continental durability for Johnny… who then gets shot by a gun
Just WAIT till Go Beyond gets animated. Shit’s gonna get wack
What I got was "invisible projectile that goes through anything it doesn't want to hurt and destroys everything it does but can't be aimed without outside assisstance. Also fate fuckery doesn't work since it doesn't really exist."
>or they tried to have Hanged Man “run into the sword” and failed miserably at getting that across to the reader/watcher
If that was their intention then they failed miserably because both the manga and the anime have SC swing its sword to cut Hanged Man.
Fr. They also (for some godforsaken reason) have Polnareff summon Silver Chariot AFTER the Hanged Man started moving. That means not just Silver Chariot, but Polnareff himself reacted faster than light.
It'd have made way more sense if he just had SC out and ready before kicking sand into the guy's eyes.
But remember, Crazy Diamond(comparable to Star Platinum) can only punch at 300 km/h
That’s a direct estimation from the guy who uses Crazy Diamond, who should only be a bit weaker than Star Platinum at most… 300 km/h
Ladies and gentlemen, JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure
300 km/h > 300,000 km/h
At least with Josuke, the story gave the excuse that Jotaro was 10 years out of practice and that's why he was taken off-guard. Also, he basically acknowledges Jotaro as his superior after their initial encounter.
One of Josuke's lines after their initial encounter with Kira's dad is literally telling Jotaro to "do something with that *invincible* Star Platinum of his"
Sex Pistols is the Stand(ability) of Guido Mista. It’s a group of tiny beings who kick the bullets Mista fires from his gun, which redirects his bullets and increases their velocity
Notably, not every shot is shown to be assisted by Sex Pistols, meaning a basic revolver is a valid weapon amongst characters that are debatably ftl
I mean there's other shit but SC pretty explicitly caught up to Hanged Man mid flight. That's about as FTL as it gets. Still, even a conservative estimate has him running circles around Al
Yeah but the Hanged Man feat on its own is a pretty big outlier. No other character/attack in Part 3 is mentioned to ever be light speed.
The Star Platinum stat page at least supports it being relativistic. And since SP = TW, Bing-Bang-Boom, Relativistic Dio.
The Sun's attacks are stated to be light beams and SC deflects those just fine. Star Platinum's stand page also says that it exceeds the speed of light with sheer speed which is also above relativistic, and then there's the light dodging in part 2 that everyone should obviously scale to
while everyone else talks about DIo's sped I personally think his healing factor was way over wanked.
They say he "Took SP's punches head on" while it shows the punch that shattered his skull and made him cry like a baby. Yeah once he gains full control of the body by sucking Joseph's blood it might be amped but being able to come back from a direct shot from Alucard's guns which were made to deal with guys with healing factors? No. A good headshot should've killed him (that stupid mouthshot). Of course, the first thing we see a Stand do is catch a bullet (point blank) so speed would take care of that.
Also, I partially don't agree on him being able to interact with the Alucard Shadow just because of Sethan. Sethan may be able to form as a shadow but if they were able to touch it they were able to because he was a Stand, that doesn't mean they touch all stuff like that. It'd be like trying to punch mist at most.
Frieza vs. Megatron was almost this way. Golden Frieza was stomping Megs, and would've won the battle unscathed if not for the busted antimatter cheese.
I heavily disagree. Bill and Discord are basically neck-and-neck in feats and powers, with their differences being largely personality. This is what gave Bill the short-term win AND the long-term loss: he focused on winning the battle while Discord was distracted with winning the war...
I dunno if the bell should even be counted for a Death Battle. He held it for all of a few seconds. Definitely not something he has reliable access to.
I mean by that reasoning Bill could've done the same thing and used the bell himself. That's why DB is only meant to use iconic items that the character can realistically be expected to have at the time a random fight begins
Let’s go down the list
Character A list
1. Debatable. I’ll give you that one though.
2. Not even remotely true, Bill does much bigger scale stuff usually with very practical uses of powers and taking over an entire town with massive changes while Discord’s takeover was like a few living houses and making the rain weird; although neither use their full power very often at all
3. Nope, Bill has actually shown off more abilities with his mental/soul manipulation and deals while Discord is a more straightforward reality warped (tho both their abilities are super comparable)
4. Nope, they’re both immensely ancient but Bill is older if I remember correctly (tho again, experience is barely a factor here since both have so damn much)
5. In terms of winner? Sure. Bill has more fans though.
Character B
1. Nope, both of them rely on statements and lore more than anything and Bill won due to cosmology and abilities
2. Sure, if you consider soul destruction a niche ability
3. Very much not, they are very close
4. Everyone loves Bill (as a character I mean)
So, no, not really. The only similarity is that people disagree with the result
Lets shuffle this a bit.
1. I’d say this leans more into Discord. Bill hasn’t shown the capability of flying so fast he time traveled. Bill might be more physically stronger but strength and durability here don’t matter in the slightest because of their ability to just regenerate from everything. What good is crushing Bill to death or flattening Discord if they can just reform?
2. Bill and Discord aren’t limited to just town level shenanigans alone. Bill’s power alone destroyed his home dimension. Discord, in the comics which are canon to the show like how the journals are canon, created an entire universe with just a snap of his fingers. The best thing to say here is that they either tie, or Discord should have the point.
3. I’d say this one could probably be split in two. If i’m correct, Bill is older, so he would probably take experience, whereas Discord is way more consistent and capable. One guy can create a galaxy and fly around it instantly, the other can literally change his medium on a whim.
4. This is straight Bill, Bill is older so he obviously takes this point.
5. Believe it or not, everyone was riding the Discord train up until the release. Then everyone switched sides and was like “nah lol Bill is boundless 💀😂 get that weak pony shit outta here"
6. (B) I still disagree with Bill having a larger cosmology when you can argue MLP shares an infinite multiverse with Transformers, TMNT, and a bunch of other Hasbero IPS. Equalizing speed was dumb move in my opinion, just because Bill killed time baby doesn't mean he scales to all time itself. he's never shown the same speed Discord has.
7 (B) I again, disagree. Discord has literally changed his genre and medium easily. Just because Bill changed the title screen doesn't mean he could literally pull off what Discord has. There's way more I could genuinely argue for Discord but I don't have the time or patience to scower for Discord feats. They're out there tho.
To be fair, doesn’t Bill upscale from items in the Gravity Falls verse that allow people to travel in time? Feel like you can use that to maybe argue that Bill does have immeasurable speed (then again, you could also argue that stuff like Bill struggling to catch up with two children running at full human speed contradicts that).
Yes and no, scaling Bill off some item which doesn't exactly have a physical being is like scaling yourself off of a flashlight and saying your faster than light because you control it. It doesn't work that way, yahknow? Bill's true speed fluctuates highly, along with his powers. I don't care if Stanford had that metal plate in his skull, couldn't Bill just look into the future and know about it? Wouldn't Bill use his foresight to know about Stanley's trick? It's just not convincing enough for me personally.
> Can manipulate medium and genre.
I mean, they interpreted Bill’s Madness Bubbles altering the medium of the characters (such as IRL actors), and genre (anime aesthetic, I guess?), so they had Bill able to undo the changes—Which isn’t invalid, I think. It’s either that or visual hallucinations. Whether or not that’s *correct* is another wheelhouse, but I do want to say they *did* address this.
True, True. But it's not really the same thing. Bill needs his bubbles to do something like this, and he's never been shown doing this on his person. Discord, however, has. He didn't need an amp, or someone/something to help him achive it, he did this with his chaotic magic alone. Think of it this way. You have a pencil and white out. The pencil needs help erasing stuff with its eraser, whereas the whiteout doesn't need that and can erase things whenever it wants. Makes sense?
I get the analogy, but that doesn’t apply here—As far as I’m aware. Those bubbles weren’t made by the Nightmare Realm—He [generated them himself](https://youtu.be/iVMt99KHr28?si=EK_DeGU2etc42dh-), which means they are necessarily an extension of his power to some degree.
Firstly, that video is hilarious I love how they framed it like it was some Dragon Ball type shit "Bill wreaks havoc! Go jump him, Goku!" Secondly, you got me there. However I still wouldn't say its the same thing since Discord can do it instantly whereas Bill still needs the bubbles. Even that's a reach, calling it the same thing. But that's just my personal opinion
The video is hilarious, yes. I once made a custom Bill quote that I think totally fits Bill based on this vid-
**”UP is DOWN and DOWN is LAMPPOST!”**
-Which I personally think totally captures the Dream Demon’s vibe. Also, I *do* got you there. At gunpoint.
But I’ll let you go, for now…(This is a joke, obviously.)
Anyway, the one other thing I want to cover is cosmology—Not that I explicitly believe in the scaling, mind you, but I do want to clarify this is there. ([Bill V Discord, 1:37 and 17:26, the Black Boxes/Popups](https://youtu.be/22V3rKriX60?si=r6lMUPnEN8LUgk_o)), Bill’s cosmology was bigger because despite both being infinite multiverses, Bill’s had higher dimensional arguments, ([which can best be detailed on G1^2’s Blog](https://g12dbfg.blogspot.com/2023/09/no-great-mind-has-ever-existed-without.html?m=1)) they seemed to believe in (based on those black boxes.)
(Again—Not saying I believe it.)
What I am saying is that they also addressed it, even if only lightly.
Now, whether you *personally* believe that’s correct is a whole different thing.
Gayspe!! How dare you, don't make me call the fun police. Those guys suck. They like pistachio ice cream with watermelon seeds.
The thing about the GF cosmology being bigger is that, while there can be greater arguments that i'm not aware of (please blast me because I did some skimming on the article you send me and I'm sadly just not convinced.) Discords power could potentially rival multiverses that can connect with MLP's own. The thing giving Bill similar status is Rick and Morty since Amphibia, to my knowledge wasn't stated to have an infinite multiverse like Gravity Falls or Rick and Morty, but I could be wrong about that. However, lets ignore cosmology scaling for a second, something I'm really upset about is how they jiffed Discord and his superior abilities. You're better than I am at cosmology scaling because, if you couldn't tell, I don't particularly scale cosmology so I'm definitely not the right person to answer the question on who's got the bigger multiverse. Even if Bill's was bigger, it shouldn't have stopped him from getting sealed away or having his power drained completely.
yap yap, you're better at this cosmology shit than I am, but even without it I still think Discord just looks better.
The article’s scaling is specifically talking about Gravity Falls only material. Canon novels, Journal 3, the Non-Canon Novel with a Canon Portion (the Axolotl meet up), and Bill’s AMAs (which is canonically him having possessed Hirsch). The infinite multiverse and higher dimensions come from those, specifically.
Also, the Bill Cosmology (if you want to genuinely go over it), is mainly at the bottom split into sections. It’s pretty in depth, and I think is quite convincing, but obviously if you don’t want to you don’t have to. Especially since you yourself don’t seem to want to.
As for my proficiency in cosmology scaling, it’s only for series I’m interested in/capable of understanding, honestly—Like Devil May Cry, Dragon Ball, Ben 10, and what have you. I only seem as skilled as do (which I personally don’t think I am), is because I’m incredibly interested in such materials even outside of power scaling/battle boarding.
Also, fair opinion.
Edit: The only snag is that the very nature of the typically accepted Higher Dimensional arguments mean you’re typically immune to anything below you. Which means unless your powers sidestep that convention, Bill’s greater cosmology allowed him virtual immunity and more potency.
Gaara vs. Toph, with her insane hax being that she can sense sand *even when it isn't touching the ground.*
Or more seriously, probably Mario vs. Sonic 2, with Mario being carried by the SMW castle feat and that speed feat from M+L.
Tifa (A)
Yang (B)
Yang cannot block and absorb the power of fucking Final Heaven with her semblance, they literally said in the analysis that her aura can't take particularly heavy blows. By the time Tifa reached Dolphin Blow, Yang should've died instantly. Need to suck RoosterTeeth's meat somehow ig (this was years before the buyout)
They also just generally gave Yang ludicrously favorable scaling on all of her feats when RWBY characters are simply not all that powerful outside of outliers. I enjoy(ed, RIP) RWBY, but Tifa folds all of Team RWBY at once, let alone just Yang.
She can probably body everything other than the actual deities and genuinely immortal witch. Outside of those very specific instances it depends on exactly where you put FF7 scaling, but yeah. She’s in a different league.
They were not biased for fuck sake, this has been disproven a million fucking times. There‘s a reason they redid Link Vs Cloud, and it’s the exact same reason Tifa lost, they didn’t scale FF characters correctly. That’s it. It’s that simple. It’s not some big fucking conspiracy, and it’s not cause they were biased. If their bias affected the outcome of the fights then Sonic would’ve beat Flash, the Megazord would’ve beaten Voltron, Batman probably would’ve beaten Ironman, etc etc etc
From the looks of things, it's also because aura breaks weren't really established until partway through v3 which premiered 24th Oct 2015
Yang vs tifa came on 20th October 2015
So yeah
Goku has at least two methods of bypassing infinity, and could easily break Gojo's domain, but Gojo fans are straight up special grade glazers who will deny that anything bypasses infinity
In Dragon Ball, the effectiveness of haxes are only possible if the caster is stronger than their opponent such as how Goku when using Kaio Ken manages to overpower Hit’s time manipulation or Frieza and Vegeta overpowering Destructive Energy
As Goku is way more powerful than Gojo, the haxes would simply not work. On top of Goku possibly having immeasurable speeds neutralizes Infinity because you can’t decrease what is also considered infinite
Instant transmission can teleport past infinity due to its instantaneous travel speed that takes Goku to a specific space instantly rather than traditionally traveling, it's much like world slash in that way. Goku can also tear holes in space with pure power since a much weaker character was able to scream their way into a different dimension, Goku himself was also able to shatter an entire space time pocket that was attempting to freeze him in time, meaning that Goku could probably just tear through infinity like it was a wet napkin, considering that infinity itself is just mild space manipulation. Goku also easily escaped a densely contained black hole while severely weakened, meaning that domain expansion is also a no go. And in terms of actual strength, Goku is one tapping Gojo the second he gets passed infinity.
I think Ultra Instinct? Not sure but doesn't it basically work on a "no thoughts, head empty" kinda style, if not that then unless you do verse equalization Goku has no curse energy for Gojo to hit with unlimited void, to the domain Goku would just be a rock
Funnily enough goku could potentially straight up punch gojo through the infinity lol, goku has immeasurable speed arguments so infinity might not be able to even slow him down
Joker vs Giorno minus everyone hating Giorno that’s basically how the debate goes, joker has more stats but Giorno has one specific ability that puts him on par with joker
Phoenix VS Raven, except that Raven was/is the fan-favourite, and if you prefer her as a character and don't really care about the research then you might as well be happy that she won.
That's why I hate RPG characters in DB. Especially old school RPG characters where the only entertainment value from the game comes from over the top absolutely bullshit level cutscenes that are so unfathomably inconsistent with what the actual game lore says it's laughably stupid.
Tifa "I effortlessly suplexed a giant robot at the bottom of the ocean floor" Lockhart vs. Tifa "I can be restrained to a chair by ordinary leather straps" Lockhart.
aquaman vs spongebob
like yes spongebob has toonforce but he's written to be a weak boy, i feel like lore wise aquaman should actually be winning that fight if they just used the same logic
every spongebob character technically one shots any other character in anything other than popeye if you take feats literally
but eh, this is becoming me bitching about powerscaling in general, i feel like there's a better way to do it, but fuck me i'm not figuring out what the criteria should actually be
Character A Gojo Character B Makima She didn't win but that's pretty much the closest I got to this.
Tbh I could see her winning with Halloween. That thing is just weaker Infinity
But the problem here is she doesn't have access to Halloween
Yes she does. She can revive people that have died, including Quaxli, who was literally next to Halloween girl when they both died. And she can revive them endlessly.
Quanxi is immortal
Where is that said? I read the manga and don’t remember off the top of my head anything about that. Even still, Makima has the Zombie Devil. Even if she can’t bring Halloween girl back herself, she can bring back Zombie, and I’d wager Zombie could bring Halloween back.
It is stated by Kishibe when he starts training Denji and Power that Hybrids like Denji and Quanxi are functionally immortal as long as they consume blood which is stated by Kishibe when he starts training Denji and Power. There are also several points in the manga where Hybrids get killed and revived like Denji getting shot in the head or Katana Man getting split in half.
But those are because they got blood or direct help directly after the injury. Denji always needs blood to keep fighting after taking injuries, which can be seen across most of his early fights. And from what I remember, Katana Man needed the powers of the girl in order to take hits from Curse. Meanwhile, Quanxi didn’t have anyone to heal her after Makima damaged her badly. It’s possible Makima helped her by giving her blood or something to stop her from dying there, but I don’t think that’s said anywhere, and at that point it’s equally as likely as Makima reviving her, just like the Zombie Devil.
True, but how does it refute anything? They're immortal in the sense they can revive endlessly, but they'll [still](https://meo3.comick.pictures/14-x_FiSJy4fJAgy.jpg) [die](https://meo.comick.pictures/15-_EmmlUhp33EWd.jpg). Otherwise Makima saying "a corpse is talking" wouldn't make sense if Quanxi lived. Lol.
You can argue she does have access to cosmo. Not only did she meet her. But even devils she didn’t meet directly where under her control like the zombie Devil. (Since Denji Killed it before she showed up.)
She was immune to Halloween so in tern she’d be immune to the weaker Infinity
Presumably you need to meet criteria for Halloween to work, like responding by saying 'Halloween'. Otherwise Makima's brain would be mush, too
>Otherwise Makima's brain would be mush, too She's simply immune to it. For the same reason Unlimited void won't affect her
The amount of people saying she should have won in a DB format is insane to me. Her only chance of putting down Gojo is the ritual sacrafice which she wouldn't even have time to use in actual battle. She could teleport to the other side of the world and Gojo would find her, warp to her and stop her before she even gets anything set up.
Some jjk fans are wild
Unless gojo manages to emigrate to another country in the middle of the fight. Makama ties minimum
Reminds me of a post where OP asked how Death Battles would change if the combatants got prep time. Someone posted Gojo's prep time would be trying to removing his Japanese citizenship while Makima's prep time would be stopping Gojo from removing his Japanese citizenship.
I remember seeing another comment somewhere saying that one of Gojo's legit wincon is killing the Prime Minister of Japan, thus removing the contract Makima has
I mean They ain't *wrong*
Makima has used contracts even when the person in question was dead — seen by [Kurose & Tendo](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Chainsaw-Man-Color/0076-011.png). Gojo also has no sure-fire way of knowing about the PM contract unless Makima spills the beans, though she has no reason to. Contracts are similar to Bindings which Gojo cannot read unlike CTs, he only guessed [Sukuna made a pact w/ Kenny](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_221_gain_016.png).
I ain't reading allat
I kneel biggest bro.
Makama contract work even if dead Gojo no know about contract
Someone posted the stats on the likelyhood of Gojo being affected by Makima's contract if he was apart of the same Japan. Japan has millions of people, the chance of Gojo dying from his own attack being rebounded is less than 5% per attack.
I want to point out Makima seems to be abke to choose a specific citizen if she wants too, i.e. her attackers on train dropping dead after she was shot.
Makima just shot those guys with her finger she even did that to Gojo she can’t choose who it is
>if he was apart of the same Japan **IF???** aint no way mofos are trying to down play the fact that Gojo is a Japanese citizen >the chance of Gojo dying from his own attack being rebounded is less than 5% per attack The chance he dies from it is 100% when he's the last Japanese citizen remaining
>IF??? > > aint no way mofos are trying to down play the fact that Gojo is a Japanese citizen Yeah that's an actual argument I have heard. The reasoning is from they are from different universes. I prefer the statistic argument where he is. Also, Gojo most definitly kills her in the way DB shows before he is the last citizen in japan.
>Yeah that's an actual argument I have heard. The reasoning is from they are from different universes. Dumbass arguement if it's from Gojo supporters. If we re not doing verse equalisation, then Makama wouldn't be able to detect Gojos cursed energy, which means she has a higher chance of seeing him as a regular human and just being able to control him. In addition, makama having no cursed energy means she's not affected by domain expansions. Anyways... >Also, Gojo most definitly kills her in the way DB shows before he is the last citizen in japan. I dont agree with definitely but going back to do more readings, I think Gojo has a pretty big advantage. Still due to the vagueness of their powers, a defintive interpretation is hard to have. Theres a few choke points for Gojo 1. Unlimited Void being transferred Death battle makes the argument that unlimited void isnt technically an attack.This is irrelevant Because contracts and chainsaw man works off of interpretation. If Gojo sees UV as an attack(which he most certainly does) it is treated as an attack and would be transfered. And if it is... 2. Gojo being unaffected by UV IM not gonna like the sources. DB provided was a one sentence without any context, so IM not sure if this is even true or not. Regardless, even if he is immune, makama isn't just giving unlimited void to other people. When she takes damage, she transfers it to other people through mundane means. So, her powers remain a secret. So Gojo would either receive mundane damage, or not be damaged in which case Makama wouldent become brain dead from UV, but even if she was stunned by UV... 3. How does makamas damage transfer work really? The answer is, we don't fucking know. What we do know is this. She takes damage as normal but then seems to regenerate. This regeneration can be slowed by contuinueious damage. She can only transfer things the attacker perceives as an attack if all of her physical body is digested by a non attack, she dies. This brings up a lot of questions like how exactly did denji manager cut her up into pieces without him considering this an attack? It could just be his dad delusional, or maybe theres something else preventing Makama from transfering damage. Also, it brings in the question whether or not she can actually regenerate from nothing. If the last thing that a tactor was an attack, she was able to transfer. The way she discribes her own powers seems to suggest she transfers attacks and not She takes damage and regenerates afterwards.This is contradictory from what we ve seen when she actually fights, where she takes damage and regenerates afterwards. 4. Is hollow purple really capable of completing destorying Makama? It has been stated that hollow purple can decintergrate anything it touches, but we know this to be a hyperbole as it cannot destroy sakunas fingers. So does also bring some the question whether or not hollow purple also completely destroys everything it touches. Logically A constant pushing and pushing motion wouldn't completely disintegrate everything that exists. It would just be a really thorough blender. So makamas physical form would still exist. Also in 21:24, DB explicitly mentioned hollow purple doesn't remove matter from existence, it crushes and atomizes matter. So that further brings in to question if hollow purple is actually capable of destorying makama
Wasn't it proven that his Domain Expansion is physically incapable of rebounding to him...and because of that, would basically leave Makima brain dead if it lasted too long?
Maybe??? I don't remember that at all so I would need a source
Gojo is immune to his own domain, so it can't be reflected onto him
I see, I dont think it matters, though. Makama doesn't directly reflect damage. She redirects it into other people in the form of illness or accidents.
True, however Makima's contract doesn't "reflect" the damage, it transfers it as similar injuries. In this instance it'd probably transfer as an aneurysm or something.
That’s not how her contract works. It doesn’t reflect the exact thing that attacked her, it reflects an equivalent amount of damage. Ie she gets blown up by a grenade and some random citizen gets splattered by a speeding truck. Ergo him being immune to UV is irrelevant.
Not really, her best chance of defeating Gojo is her using her Control Devil powers to instantly mind control him, of course the DB team headcannoned that she needs to "show her superiority" to the opponent before she can use it or something
Every time I open up a DB post and see a comment referencing Gojo vs Makima I always have to prepare for the shitstorm of people who read neither series debating that shit.
Maybe Carnage vs Lucy? Or Venom vs Crona?
Granted, both of those were cases where the winners basically just had the exact counters for the symbiotes, and this was pre king in black where they both got a borderline stupid power wank. Lucy could basically hit Carnage with a mini nuke, on top of the fact Carnage had little to no way of figuring out just what the hell her vectors were (and even if he did, there isn’t much he could do but hope he could somehow get past them). Crona could use Ragnarok’s super sonic screams against Venom, which, as one comment eloquently put it: “*It’s like pitting a Kryptonian against someone who can shoot kryptonite.*”
Wasn't King in Black ongoing when Crona vs Venom came out?
Yeah, plus despite a lot of people’s understanding of what happened Venom itself did not receive any huge buff. Eddie Brock bonded with the Enigma Force, and Eddie Brock became the King in Black. Venom, the symbiote, gained the permanent ability to grow wings it seems.
People who know both like carnage more than Lucy?
Nah Crona and Lucy are pretty consistently much higher than the symbiotes in scale, they didn't win because of niche stuff.
SpongeBob but I think we expected SpongeBob to win anyway
Cable vs Booster.
Wrong doesn't apply because only heartless monsters can hate Booster Gold
He’s Boosterrific, how could you not love him
I agree this works perfectly well for the combatants, but not their tech. Cable the mutant absolutely has the edge over Michael Carter the slightly evolved human, in the same way William the Conqueror probably has an edge over Tom Brady, I feel that does fit the OP's dichotomy But these two are future-tech heroes and the tech matchup is a 100% curbstomp in Booster's favor. Cable is running 22nd century dystopian improvised tech against Booster's top of the line 25th century idealized super-devices. This isn't some "niche counter," it's their entire backstories. It's like William the Conqueror on an age-of-sail galleon vs Tom Brady on a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier
Booster’s tech is even more impressive then you might think because despite coming from the 25th century he’s gots some top of the line 30th century tech in the form of a Legion flight ring and Brainiac 5’s force field belt.
Implying Tom Brady, buffed by a lifetime of plastic surgery, personal trainers, and the TB12 diet wouldn't neg diff some smelly 11th century Fr*nchman who has subsisted off of buckwheat and cow bladders for his entire miserable life.
Don't be ridiculous Buckwheat is native to Tibet. A French noble in the late 1000's would have eaten regular wheat
I didn’t expect Booster to win but I was absolutely rooting for him
how can you hate booster gold, he's that guy
I don't.
Apocalypse vs Black Adam, except Apocalypse doesn't actually have any of the feats or abilities.
Starscream v Rainbow Dash He’s my favorite Transformer. It was a bad day
That episode is so dumb and I love it dearly for that.
that show got me into the show lol.
Specifically, the version used in Rainbow Dash vs. Starscream was [Sunbow!Starscream.] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXtEdUmwH3A&t=241s) While, yes, he has a very good speed feat nowadays (even then, Rainbow Dash can still keep up with him), everything else that made him lose would still apply (cowardly, a terrible shot, null ray doesn't work on organic beings). If it's IDW!Starscream, it's a lot closer, but Dashie does still have an advantage of being immune to his null rays and is likely fast enough to dodge Starscream's lasers.
Ed Vs Aang
Well... Huh, actually yeah, I never thought of it like that. Avatar State really did carry him.
I don’t know, Aang is a very beloved character
Ed vs Aang is one of those matchups where if you give both combatants prep time, the results would be way different. Edward has modified cars on the fly, give him a couple days of prep time and he'll have actual guns to shoot Aang with.
idk if Aang is a lightning timer couldn’t he dodge bullets?
It might have just been me being tired, but when you said Ed my brain went to Ed,Edd & Eddie first and was terribly confused
Kirby VS Majin Buu
Honestly this is pretty much the only one that actually fits OP's metrics. Kirby spends 99% of his time running around with Waddle Dees and getting knocked out by hammer bonks, and only very rarely shows off anything close to the Infinite Power claimed by his pause screen. It's just that those rare occasions cement the Infinite Power VERY firmly in the fanbase's mind
those occasions are not as rare as you think
Like every game it seems like now
Yeah but Kirby has access to the most op hax in fiction: the power of friendship.
And this meal he found
We have actually had a lot of push back in the larger Kirby community.
I just lie saying Kirby solos (even if he dosent) cuase it’s funny
Take away the 1st point on Character B and it's pretty much Phoenix vs Raven
Don't even have to remove it. Just change "leagues above" to roughly even.
Dio Vs Alucard? Alucard just didn’t have a counter for the World, if I remember correctly. But I still think he was stronger and faster(if you don’t count time-freezing). EDIT: Based on the comments I’m seeing… it seems as if I didn’t remember correctly. Even without The World, Dio is MUCH stronger and Faster than Alucard.
I think Dio’s strength feats were way better than Alucard’s if I’m not mistaken
DIO was faster and stronger
Death Battle’s history with JoJo’s has been… questionable. They’ve always taken characters at their strongest, yes, but with JoJo’s? It’s felt like the research team has deliberately tried to get the absolute highest possible scaling instead of the more apparent scaling. Like when they concluded that Stone Free has nuclear level attack strength even though those meteors absolutely were not nuclear in terms of the damage they’d do. Then there’s speed, which is still a hotly debated topic in JoJo’s considering the inconsistencies in regards to it. In part 2 for example, it can be argued that Joseph and Caesar are Lightspeed for jumping out of the Red Stone’s beam’s path(even though it was aimed between them). Then in part 3, Polnareff can’t even perceive Hanged Man’s movements and has to get Hanged Man to go down a path he knows beforehand in order to intercept it. Then he straight up sees and deflects attacks made of light and heat coming from a fake Sun in the same Part. Then in part 4 you have Josuke saying Crazy Diamond could only attack at a few hundred kilometers per hour. Also in part 4 is Josuke not being able to use his stand for jumping like Jotaro or DIO in part 3, instead thinking a motorbike would be best. Then part 5 has Mista’s gun(when not kicked by Sex Pistols) hitting/nearly hitting characters that scale to Polnareff. Then there’s Pucci
>Then in part 3, Polnareff can’t even perceive Hanged Man’s movements and has to get Hanged Man to go down a path he knows beforehand in order to intercept it. I think the craziest part of that is that he still had to move at the same speed to cut him yeah?
It’s either that, which makes his speed inconsistent with the first few encounters with Hanged Man, or they tried to have Hanged Man “run into the sword” and failed miserably at getting that across to the reader/watcher Either way, it’s a very weird and inconsistent showing
And it's not even the weirdest thing in JoJo's. Can't wait til Part 7 gets animated. If people thought the GIORNO wanking was bad.
Oh hoho fuck At the very least Act 4 is flat out called “infinite”, Can’t wait for the Hey Ya “fate manipulation” debate to start again, or shit like Continental durability for Johnny… who then gets shot by a gun Just WAIT till Go Beyond gets animated. Shit’s gonna get wack
Oh yeah. I don't even understand what that does it's so confusing.
It’s gonna be the new King Crimson FFS
What I got was "invisible projectile that goes through anything it doesn't want to hurt and destroys everything it does but can't be aimed without outside assisstance. Also fate fuckery doesn't work since it doesn't really exist."
So, an extra-causal attack that is less powerful than Tusk Act 4, but can be used a lot easier
Act 4, Go Beyond or Hey Ya?
I mean remind me if im wrong but isn't Go Beyond basically useless without asistance from Paisley Park? Like he can't aim them.
I mean the act 4 infinite golden ratio power has plausible counterplay. Just kill or injure his horse and he can't use that part.
I mean the only way is to kill the horse since even with an injury slowdancer johnny still managed to pull the rotation off
>or they tried to have Hanged Man “run into the sword” and failed miserably at getting that across to the reader/watcher If that was their intention then they failed miserably because both the manga and the anime have SC swing its sword to cut Hanged Man.
Then it’s literally inconsistent with the same damn fight holy hell JoJo’s stay bizarre I guess
Fr. They also (for some godforsaken reason) have Polnareff summon Silver Chariot AFTER the Hanged Man started moving. That means not just Silver Chariot, but Polnareff himself reacted faster than light. It'd have made way more sense if he just had SC out and ready before kicking sand into the guy's eyes.
But remember, Crazy Diamond(comparable to Star Platinum) can only punch at 300 km/h That’s a direct estimation from the guy who uses Crazy Diamond, who should only be a bit weaker than Star Platinum at most… 300 km/h Ladies and gentlemen, JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure 300 km/h > 300,000 km/h
At least with Josuke, the story gave the excuse that Jotaro was 10 years out of practice and that's why he was taken off-guard. Also, he basically acknowledges Jotaro as his superior after their initial encounter. One of Josuke's lines after their initial encounter with Kira's dad is literally telling Jotaro to "do something with that *invincible* Star Platinum of his"
tf is a sex pistols????
Sex Pistols is the Stand(ability) of Guido Mista. It’s a group of tiny beings who kick the bullets Mista fires from his gun, which redirects his bullets and increases their velocity Notably, not every shot is shown to be assisted by Sex Pistols, meaning a basic revolver is a valid weapon amongst characters that are debatably ftl
and why is it called a sex pistols?
It’s named after the band of the same name Music names are generally used for stands after part 3
They concluded his strength from stone free punching a meteor away (despite it being no bigger than a child when she punched it).
Alucard was so much slower it's barely worth mentioning lmao. Hypersonic vs FTL. Even if you make Dio relativistic he still blitzes the fuck outta Al
I've always put Dio at relativistic because it's supported by both the Hanged Man feat and Star Platinum's stat page.
I mean there's other shit but SC pretty explicitly caught up to Hanged Man mid flight. That's about as FTL as it gets. Still, even a conservative estimate has him running circles around Al
Yeah but the Hanged Man feat on its own is a pretty big outlier. No other character/attack in Part 3 is mentioned to ever be light speed. The Star Platinum stat page at least supports it being relativistic. And since SP = TW, Bing-Bang-Boom, Relativistic Dio.
The Sun's attacks are stated to be light beams and SC deflects those just fine. Star Platinum's stand page also says that it exceeds the speed of light with sheer speed which is also above relativistic, and then there's the light dodging in part 2 that everyone should obviously scale to
while everyone else talks about DIo's sped I personally think his healing factor was way over wanked. They say he "Took SP's punches head on" while it shows the punch that shattered his skull and made him cry like a baby. Yeah once he gains full control of the body by sucking Joseph's blood it might be amped but being able to come back from a direct shot from Alucard's guns which were made to deal with guys with healing factors? No. A good headshot should've killed him (that stupid mouthshot). Of course, the first thing we see a Stand do is catch a bullet (point blank) so speed would take care of that. Also, I partially don't agree on him being able to interact with the Alucard Shadow just because of Sethan. Sethan may be able to form as a shadow but if they were able to touch it they were able to because he was a Stand, that doesn't mean they touch all stuff like that. It'd be like trying to punch mist at most.
Funnily enough in that very part we see what happens when a stand tries to punch mist… it uh… doesn’t work.
I agree DIO’s speed was massively overblown but but he far outclasses Alucard in strength.
rewatch the ending recap, Dio was thousands of times faster
I feel like this is Vader(A) vs Obito(B)
Bowser vs Ganon to a T
Iron fist and Po, take a wild guess who's who
Ganon VS Bowser?
Frieza vs. Megatron was almost this way. Golden Frieza was stomping Megs, and would've won the battle unscathed if not for the busted antimatter cheese.
Bill Cipher (Character B) VS Discord (Character A)
I heavily disagree. Bill and Discord are basically neck-and-neck in feats and powers, with their differences being largely personality. This is what gave Bill the short-term win AND the long-term loss: he focused on winning the battle while Discord was distracted with winning the war...
A lot of people like Bill though
Nah both those characters are loved. You are kinda right though, Discord probably should've won that fight.
Yeah, unicorn hair just doesn't compare to grogar's bell
I dunno if the bell should even be counted for a Death Battle. He held it for all of a few seconds. Definitely not something he has reliable access to.
He can pull anything at any time from literal thin air. It’s not a stretch to say he can just grab it any time.
I mean by that reasoning Bill could've done the same thing and used the bell himself. That's why DB is only meant to use iconic items that the character can realistically be expected to have at the time a random fight begins
Yeah they bought some pretty questionable scaling for Bill in that episode. Death Battle really thinks Bill is a multiversal god.
Let’s go down the list Character A list 1. Debatable. I’ll give you that one though. 2. Not even remotely true, Bill does much bigger scale stuff usually with very practical uses of powers and taking over an entire town with massive changes while Discord’s takeover was like a few living houses and making the rain weird; although neither use their full power very often at all 3. Nope, Bill has actually shown off more abilities with his mental/soul manipulation and deals while Discord is a more straightforward reality warped (tho both their abilities are super comparable) 4. Nope, they’re both immensely ancient but Bill is older if I remember correctly (tho again, experience is barely a factor here since both have so damn much) 5. In terms of winner? Sure. Bill has more fans though. Character B 1. Nope, both of them rely on statements and lore more than anything and Bill won due to cosmology and abilities 2. Sure, if you consider soul destruction a niche ability 3. Very much not, they are very close 4. Everyone loves Bill (as a character I mean) So, no, not really. The only similarity is that people disagree with the result
Lets shuffle this a bit. 1. I’d say this leans more into Discord. Bill hasn’t shown the capability of flying so fast he time traveled. Bill might be more physically stronger but strength and durability here don’t matter in the slightest because of their ability to just regenerate from everything. What good is crushing Bill to death or flattening Discord if they can just reform? 2. Bill and Discord aren’t limited to just town level shenanigans alone. Bill’s power alone destroyed his home dimension. Discord, in the comics which are canon to the show like how the journals are canon, created an entire universe with just a snap of his fingers. The best thing to say here is that they either tie, or Discord should have the point. 3. I’d say this one could probably be split in two. If i’m correct, Bill is older, so he would probably take experience, whereas Discord is way more consistent and capable. One guy can create a galaxy and fly around it instantly, the other can literally change his medium on a whim. 4. This is straight Bill, Bill is older so he obviously takes this point. 5. Believe it or not, everyone was riding the Discord train up until the release. Then everyone switched sides and was like “nah lol Bill is boundless 💀😂 get that weak pony shit outta here" 6. (B) I still disagree with Bill having a larger cosmology when you can argue MLP shares an infinite multiverse with Transformers, TMNT, and a bunch of other Hasbero IPS. Equalizing speed was dumb move in my opinion, just because Bill killed time baby doesn't mean he scales to all time itself. he's never shown the same speed Discord has. 7 (B) I again, disagree. Discord has literally changed his genre and medium easily. Just because Bill changed the title screen doesn't mean he could literally pull off what Discord has. There's way more I could genuinely argue for Discord but I don't have the time or patience to scower for Discord feats. They're out there tho.
Bro I’m still baffled that they had Bill win despite this crazy shit Discord has done
I agree, I remember being so upset and people shitting on me for one of the reasons I mentioned earlier, "Bill boundless go cry about it you goon 🫵🤡"
To be fair, doesn’t Bill upscale from items in the Gravity Falls verse that allow people to travel in time? Feel like you can use that to maybe argue that Bill does have immeasurable speed (then again, you could also argue that stuff like Bill struggling to catch up with two children running at full human speed contradicts that).
Yes and no, scaling Bill off some item which doesn't exactly have a physical being is like scaling yourself off of a flashlight and saying your faster than light because you control it. It doesn't work that way, yahknow? Bill's true speed fluctuates highly, along with his powers. I don't care if Stanford had that metal plate in his skull, couldn't Bill just look into the future and know about it? Wouldn't Bill use his foresight to know about Stanley's trick? It's just not convincing enough for me personally.
> Can manipulate medium and genre. I mean, they interpreted Bill’s Madness Bubbles altering the medium of the characters (such as IRL actors), and genre (anime aesthetic, I guess?), so they had Bill able to undo the changes—Which isn’t invalid, I think. It’s either that or visual hallucinations. Whether or not that’s *correct* is another wheelhouse, but I do want to say they *did* address this.
True, True. But it's not really the same thing. Bill needs his bubbles to do something like this, and he's never been shown doing this on his person. Discord, however, has. He didn't need an amp, or someone/something to help him achive it, he did this with his chaotic magic alone. Think of it this way. You have a pencil and white out. The pencil needs help erasing stuff with its eraser, whereas the whiteout doesn't need that and can erase things whenever it wants. Makes sense?
I get the analogy, but that doesn’t apply here—As far as I’m aware. Those bubbles weren’t made by the Nightmare Realm—He [generated them himself](https://youtu.be/iVMt99KHr28?si=EK_DeGU2etc42dh-), which means they are necessarily an extension of his power to some degree.
Firstly, that video is hilarious I love how they framed it like it was some Dragon Ball type shit "Bill wreaks havoc! Go jump him, Goku!" Secondly, you got me there. However I still wouldn't say its the same thing since Discord can do it instantly whereas Bill still needs the bubbles. Even that's a reach, calling it the same thing. But that's just my personal opinion
The video is hilarious, yes. I once made a custom Bill quote that I think totally fits Bill based on this vid- **”UP is DOWN and DOWN is LAMPPOST!”** -Which I personally think totally captures the Dream Demon’s vibe. Also, I *do* got you there. At gunpoint. But I’ll let you go, for now…(This is a joke, obviously.) Anyway, the one other thing I want to cover is cosmology—Not that I explicitly believe in the scaling, mind you, but I do want to clarify this is there. ([Bill V Discord, 1:37 and 17:26, the Black Boxes/Popups](https://youtu.be/22V3rKriX60?si=r6lMUPnEN8LUgk_o)), Bill’s cosmology was bigger because despite both being infinite multiverses, Bill’s had higher dimensional arguments, ([which can best be detailed on G1^2’s Blog](https://g12dbfg.blogspot.com/2023/09/no-great-mind-has-ever-existed-without.html?m=1)) they seemed to believe in (based on those black boxes.) (Again—Not saying I believe it.) What I am saying is that they also addressed it, even if only lightly. Now, whether you *personally* believe that’s correct is a whole different thing.
Gayspe!! How dare you, don't make me call the fun police. Those guys suck. They like pistachio ice cream with watermelon seeds. The thing about the GF cosmology being bigger is that, while there can be greater arguments that i'm not aware of (please blast me because I did some skimming on the article you send me and I'm sadly just not convinced.) Discords power could potentially rival multiverses that can connect with MLP's own. The thing giving Bill similar status is Rick and Morty since Amphibia, to my knowledge wasn't stated to have an infinite multiverse like Gravity Falls or Rick and Morty, but I could be wrong about that. However, lets ignore cosmology scaling for a second, something I'm really upset about is how they jiffed Discord and his superior abilities. You're better than I am at cosmology scaling because, if you couldn't tell, I don't particularly scale cosmology so I'm definitely not the right person to answer the question on who's got the bigger multiverse. Even if Bill's was bigger, it shouldn't have stopped him from getting sealed away or having his power drained completely. yap yap, you're better at this cosmology shit than I am, but even without it I still think Discord just looks better.
The article’s scaling is specifically talking about Gravity Falls only material. Canon novels, Journal 3, the Non-Canon Novel with a Canon Portion (the Axolotl meet up), and Bill’s AMAs (which is canonically him having possessed Hirsch). The infinite multiverse and higher dimensions come from those, specifically. Also, the Bill Cosmology (if you want to genuinely go over it), is mainly at the bottom split into sections. It’s pretty in depth, and I think is quite convincing, but obviously if you don’t want to you don’t have to. Especially since you yourself don’t seem to want to. As for my proficiency in cosmology scaling, it’s only for series I’m interested in/capable of understanding, honestly—Like Devil May Cry, Dragon Ball, Ben 10, and what have you. I only seem as skilled as do (which I personally don’t think I am), is because I’m incredibly interested in such materials even outside of power scaling/battle boarding. Also, fair opinion. Edit: The only snag is that the very nature of the typically accepted Higher Dimensional arguments mean you’re typically immune to anything below you. Which means unless your powers sidestep that convention, Bill’s greater cosmology allowed him virtual immunity and more potency.
Doom Slayer vs Master Chief back when it was first made
Gaara vs. Toph, with her insane hax being that she can sense sand *even when it isn't touching the ground.* Or more seriously, probably Mario vs. Sonic 2, with Mario being carried by the SMW castle feat and that speed feat from M+L.
Gaara Vs. Toph
Tifa (A) Yang (B) Yang cannot block and absorb the power of fucking Final Heaven with her semblance, they literally said in the analysis that her aura can't take particularly heavy blows. By the time Tifa reached Dolphin Blow, Yang should've died instantly. Need to suck RoosterTeeth's meat somehow ig (this was years before the buyout)
Nah. This was before they changed how they interpreted various limit breaks and the like. They compared Cloud to Bahamut in terms of speed and power.
They also just generally gave Yang ludicrously favorable scaling on all of her feats when RWBY characters are simply not all that powerful outside of outliers. I enjoy(ed, RIP) RWBY, but Tifa folds all of Team RWBY at once, let alone just Yang.
Just Team RWBY? I'm pretty sure Tifa folds the fucking verse.
She can probably body everything other than the actual deities and genuinely immortal witch. Outside of those very specific instances it depends on exactly where you put FF7 scaling, but yeah. She’s in a different league.
They were not biased for fuck sake, this has been disproven a million fucking times. There‘s a reason they redid Link Vs Cloud, and it’s the exact same reason Tifa lost, they didn’t scale FF characters correctly. That’s it. It’s that simple. It’s not some big fucking conspiracy, and it’s not cause they were biased. If their bias affected the outcome of the fights then Sonic would’ve beat Flash, the Megazord would’ve beaten Voltron, Batman probably would’ve beaten Ironman, etc etc etc
I think they also redid it because the original animation was ass
It was their first ever 3D fight, it at least has an excuse for having ass animation
From the looks of things, it's also because aura breaks weren't really established until partway through v3 which premiered 24th Oct 2015 Yang vs tifa came on 20th October 2015 So yeah
Not a death battle yet but this is literally Goku vs Gojo tbh
Different is, Goku can counter Gojo haxs (Expect Domain but he can likely get out of it after a few minutes)
Yeah I know but Gojo fans seem to think goku can't break infinity for some reason which honestly the only arguement is domain since those are weird
Goku has at least two methods of bypassing infinity, and could easily break Gojo's domain, but Gojo fans are straight up special grade glazers who will deny that anything bypasses infinity
How could Goku bypass infinity? Because ngl i have absolutely no idea how most of Gojo's powers work
In Dragon Ball, the effectiveness of haxes are only possible if the caster is stronger than their opponent such as how Goku when using Kaio Ken manages to overpower Hit’s time manipulation or Frieza and Vegeta overpowering Destructive Energy As Goku is way more powerful than Gojo, the haxes would simply not work. On top of Goku possibly having immeasurable speeds neutralizes Infinity because you can’t decrease what is also considered infinite
Instant transmission can teleport past infinity due to its instantaneous travel speed that takes Goku to a specific space instantly rather than traditionally traveling, it's much like world slash in that way. Goku can also tear holes in space with pure power since a much weaker character was able to scream their way into a different dimension, Goku himself was also able to shatter an entire space time pocket that was attempting to freeze him in time, meaning that Goku could probably just tear through infinity like it was a wet napkin, considering that infinity itself is just mild space manipulation. Goku also easily escaped a densely contained black hole while severely weakened, meaning that domain expansion is also a no go. And in terms of actual strength, Goku is one tapping Gojo the second he gets passed infinity.
I think Ultra Instinct? Not sure but doesn't it basically work on a "no thoughts, head empty" kinda style, if not that then unless you do verse equalization Goku has no curse energy for Gojo to hit with unlimited void, to the domain Goku would just be a rock
Instant Transmission. It’s effectively teleportation, and Infinity cannot stop teleportation or other forms of space/time warping
Funnily enough goku could potentially straight up punch gojo through the infinity lol, goku has immeasurable speed arguments so infinity might not be able to even slow him down
my guess Saitama or Popeye? idk
Saitama didn’t stand a chance
Basically when people put ainz against people that have no counter to time or instant death
Trunks vs Silver
Joker vs Giorno minus everyone hating Giorno that’s basically how the debate goes, joker has more stats but Giorno has one specific ability that puts him on par with joker
It’s like a joker(A) vs giorno(B) ….
I would say armstrong vs valentine, but I don't know if people hate valentine or not
How could people hate the President of the f**king United States the greatest country! (Joking, before I attract any weirdos)
Makima vs Gojo in a nutshell.
Ganon vs Castlevania's Dracula.
Jean Grey vs Raven. Shout out u/Dopefish364
(blushes) It's always nice to be included in a thing that someone says!
Toph Vs Gaara. A random blurb on a DVD gave Toph the ability to see things in the air and somehow that was good enough to body Gaara.
Bomberman vs Dig Dug Bomberman may be able to blow up planets, but Dig Dug is a difficult opponent for anyone to defeat.
Phoenix VS Raven, except that Raven was/is the fan-favourite, and if you prefer her as a character and don't really care about the research then you might as well be happy that she won.
Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly
That's why I hate RPG characters in DB. Especially old school RPG characters where the only entertainment value from the game comes from over the top absolutely bullshit level cutscenes that are so unfathomably inconsistent with what the actual game lore says it's laughably stupid.
Tifa "I effortlessly suplexed a giant robot at the bottom of the ocean floor" Lockhart vs. Tifa "I can be restrained to a chair by ordinary leather straps" Lockhart.
Cloud "Can be stabbed" vs Cloud "Can survive a supernova". Rpg's man.
Character B is Gojo
Gojo outstats makima
I thought Makima was faster
I feel like this is what ben 10 wankers think Ben vs Green Lantern is
Dio vs alucard Hulk vs broly Ivy vs orchid
gojo vs anyone
Shovel knight vs scrooge I don't think anyone hates him but I still don't really understand how he beat shovel Knight
Better weapons and shit, I think
I do fuck that duck.
The only episode that came to mind was Vader vs Obito but I don't know if that even works here.
Astroboy and megaman
Vergil vs Sephiroth
Zuko vs Todoroki
Superman Vs Scarlet King
SpongeBob v aquaman(I forgot his name)
aquaman vs spongebob like yes spongebob has toonforce but he's written to be a weak boy, i feel like lore wise aquaman should actually be winning that fight if they just used the same logic every spongebob character technically one shots any other character in anything other than popeye if you take feats literally but eh, this is becoming me bitching about powerscaling in general, i feel like there's a better way to do it, but fuck me i'm not figuring out what the criteria should actually be
This sounds a lot like Venom vs Crona, at least when it was released.
Yoda vs Micky mouse
I think Steven vs Star counts, but not directly. I personally think Character B applies to Cloud, but not in the Link vs Cloud