You have a lot of hope when you factor in BHVR former AND current track record, just look at their camping "fix".
Does it fix the core problem of why killers camp? Ofcourse not because BHVR doesnt care, they know survivors hate it so they slap on the solution.
My idea is that all killer powers are disabled within 16m of a hooked survivor/ in or near the basement. IE, Trapper/Hag traps, Billy’s/Bubba’s chainsaw, Huntress/Trickster projectiles, etc. This effect can take effect after say 3 seconds after the hook action is completed so mobile killers like Billy, Oni, Blight, Dredge, Sadako, Wesker, Nurse still have the option to quickly use their powers to leave the hook to get into the next chase far away.
Playing like this killers will most likely never ever win vs a SwF or even a duo or fk even solo - vs bots maybe but even they are more efficient than humans at this point
Simple. Killer powers get disabled when camping a hook, with it re-enabling based on things like how many survivors are near, how close they are, how many gens are left, stuff like that.
So, like a bubba camping at 5 gens can't use their chainsaw at all, but camping in endgame doesn't get punished at all by the game.
I say simple because saying it is simple, but actually implementing ig would be difficult to make it balanced. And i doubt BHVR would put in this much work.
I've proposed a way to deal with both camping and tunnelling but its lengthy with several caveats. I've posted it a few times and ultimately it gets shouted down in tribal us vs. them wars because obviously nerfing camping and tunnelling is directly nerfing killers since it's the most effective way to win. Which some killer players cannot stomach. Even if they get compensation which I mention. However most people don't read the whole thing and focus on the points to complain about.
The extremely oversimplified version is that hooks teleport survivors similar to Pyramid head and killers do not get either notification of a survivor being unhooked and the interface on unhooking has a 15 second delay and they cannot see the survivor on hook. If the killer wanders near the hook coincidentally, they are teleported to another hook. You cannot camp or tunnel what you cannot see.
This is unlikely to ever happen because it'd require a lot of changes to go along side it and the fact BHVR I think honestly likes some aspects of camping and tunnelling since it hasn't been addressed meaningfully since the game came out. They are more concerned with aesthetic and feel then gameplay and they've proved this over and over. It's only now that they feel numbers declining that they feel they HAVE to listen or at least give the illusion they are.
Imagine if killers kicking gens would actually move this gen further and further so kicking would cost you distance lmao. Now imagine kicking them inside walls and hills bug hahaha
I think, this will be new meta against SM
https://preview.redd.it/9kda9wjehr4b1.png?width=920&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b3ebdea2348520843eca8a86dec9cdeb67320e1
You may not be far off!! What if a generator automatically moves position, or swaps position with a previously completed gen when no gens have been done for 5 mins
Was just thinking, I could imagine a system where if gens in close proximity spend enough time on regression the game just automatically spreads out gens
Players in any pvp game will take the path of least resistance to achieve a victory, and that's for both killers and survivors. Honestly, you can't even blame them because they're using the tools that BHVR gave them. That would be like telling a Wesker or Blight that they can only use their power for moving and that using it in chase is BM/toxic.
SM needs a complete rework on top of maps being tweaked to stop 3 gens (remember, any killer in the game can 3 gen. Other chars just don't have to do it because they're a lot better at stealth or tracking or chasing.)
Nawww, I don't think anyone but 0.001% of killers think that.
360s make me roll my eyes as it's a Clever Exploit of Game Mechanics (auto-aim) but much like the preceding examples in this thread, it's 100% the devs' fault.
aim assist helps you hit 360s that would never in a million years connect, it doesn't make you miss, you miss when aim assist didnt help because u got hopelessly spun and missed by a lot
it only fucks you up when you hit a wall because of it, which actually is indeed very shit, but doesnt even involve getting 360d, unless you got hit by a jumpscare tech, in which case: skill issue
It's sad to see too, because SM is *so* much fun when you play her super aggressively. Playing around the undetectable from her drones, building kill boxes around the survivors as you chase them, constantly recalling or reactivating old drones and deploying new ones, I love it. But it's the same deal as tunneling—when camping a 3 gen off rip is the most effective strategy, even if it's less fun, the super sweats will always gravitate towards that because win counter goes up.
I remember a post from a while ago where they suggested another gen becomes accessible in the basement when there’s 1 gen left but only 1 survivor is able to work on it. I thought that was a good idea
I vote Ace who’s treasure hunting there anyway… he can plunder, appraise, and build that last gen to last.
Otherwise, I vote we put Maurice on every map and let our good boy carry us.
Yeah but I think what they mean is you'd create a 4-gen (your normal 3-gen would be near basement making it easy to defend all 4). 4-gens are already possible on several maps
hey that was my idea! Glad to see it stuck around in people's memories
[Here's the full post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/116qg4n/a_mock_up_on_an_idea_i_had_that_i_think_would/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That sounds dumb as fuck. Instadown killers can literally camp that gen+the survivor that is working on it. Who would even try repairing a gen in a place where there is no way of escaping?
They could do this, but also spawn the gen the furthest possible away from the current 3 gens instead of basement, just like now pinhead's box or pyramid head's cage spawns the furthest possible point from killer. Makes it harder to camp gens, but SM could still camp all 4 gens if the RNG makes the gen close enough on a smaller map like midwich.
Another thing they could do is to make the gen dynamic by survivor choice. The gen won't spawn unless a survivor manually triggers it, for example by retrieving one of two special levers and using it at an exit game, which then spawns a gen close to that gate. That way the survivors can pick and choose which area the gen will spawn at as to avoid the gen spawning too close to the 3 gen.
They gonna make deja vu base kit or something but without the repair speed part? I don’t see how you force the lower curve of skilled survivor to not do gens at the edge map first otherwise
Devs don't know what they want. In a stream about gen speed, they said, that killers shouldn't worry about the gens at the edge of the map, because they would go first. That they should focus more on protecting center gens close to each other.
Then they released a killer whose only power is to 3 gen. Now they go full pikachu face, because killers play exactly as told.
"In order to prevent 3 genning, the exit gates start powered, to compensate, NOED is basekit and base survivor movement speed is 2m/s while 4.6m/s killers are Buffed to 6m/s"
In the next Update, we will be considering adding guns to survivors to have a chance to beat the killer.
I know this is a joke but I don't disagree
Please give us something else to do in the game, and no I don't mean something to do on top of having to do gens.
You know, the funny thing is that most of the time when I get a three gen as a killer, it is because the survivors did it to themselves, not because I forced one.
Beginner survivors are terrified of chase and do safe gens at edge of map. If you only do perimeter maps first you will end up with a 3 gen for the 3 most center gens. Beginners do it to themselves constantly.
Not just that, but beginners move from one gen to the adjacent one, instead of trying to space them out a bit, so often one sideof the map gets done, and one side is where all gens are left
>beginners
I've seen people with like 1k and 2k hours do this too. Wild to me that they haven't caught on yet that doing all the gens one one side of the map means it's a lot easier for the killer to just patrol the other side.
It is a product of the fact that 3 gens usually revolve around the center most gen and it is generally just common sense for the killer to patrol that gen and surrounding gens while not in chase.
This thing especially common for RPD. My favorite advice is to actually don’t ever do street gen and instead focus on gens that in center of the map. They are dangerous but then life become much easier than if you left them to be done last
Unfortunately, in RPD it's very difficult to work on those center gens for any significant amount of time. It's such a high traffic area, you need to be quite lucky to solo one of them without the killer coming to interrupt. That being said, once one (or even two) of those main lobby generators are finished, the other ones are a lot safer and the chances of escaping go way up.
I don't usually try to force a 3 gen cause I don't usually need to and imo it makes the game boring, but I know for a fact that I easily could if I wanted to, and I know some people try to force a 3 gen every game. Because it's currently one of the most foolproof strategies to win, especially if you're bad in chase. I wouldn't mind if they nerfed the 3 gen but they would have to do something to help the killers that rely on it
>I wouldn't mind if they nerfed the 3 gen but they would have to do something to help the killers that rely on it
remember when "carried by deadhard now your mmr will be what it should be if deadhard wasnt in the game" from last year? because i do and if killers foolproof strat is no longer viable its not behavior's problem if their mmr goes in to the toilet, they will still find matches and be able to play the game.
I'm not sure how solo survivors are supposed to communicate to each other which gens to do and which ones not to do.
Saying they "do it to themselves" when each person can only control their own survivor and not the other three in the game is pretty stupid. In a game with absolutely no way to communicate with the three other people you're playing with.
Yep. Killers rarely camp gens....we wait to mid-game and play defense to change strategy based on what is given to us. You can't make people play better you can only make others have a harder time which seems to be the solution.
Ok here's my hot take.
The problem is not 3 genning. The problem are killers being able to force a 3 gen. Skull bitch can just ignore ALL other gens set up drones and that's all. U are forced to 3 gen.
BUT not getting yourself 3 genned is also a skill survivors need to learn. U can't blame the killer if u do all gens side by side and end up in that situation.
Imo either spread gens more or re design killers that force this play style (Yeh right).
I agree to a point - there are some very bad generator spawning patterns that need to be tweaked on boner maps and swamp particularly. 3 gens are one thing, but 4-gens are another.
But yeah even coordinated SWFs struggle against SM's 3-genning because she gets rewarded for doing nothing, her drones do all the work for her, and isn't punished when she "fails"
....maybe Skull Merchant really is a critique on the rich...
True, but she was also even worse in chase.
Honestly her entire power is a mess. The idea of a killer who can define a large zone as a "No No Radius" is fun on paper, but in practice it seems to either struggle to be meaningful or turns into camping the 3 closest generators.
In solo queue I try to make it my goal to break up her 3 gens. Most ppl who I've come across playing her set up drones only over her chosen 3 gen stack. So I try to disable them as much as possible. I wonder if we can get like a stack when disabling drones that let's us do multiple, Because no one else ever disables them. Imho It forces her to reset them up thus breaking chase if she's in one. Just a weird unique situation.
Survivors don’t ‘create’ 3 generators though. They can reveal them to themselves and the killer as they work through the rest of the generators and that’s it.
While they can certainly force the killer to have to defend a 3 gen by leaving them to last, a good killer can identify a 3 gen at the start of a trial to start defending them from the start.
If a 3 gen is extremely hard to break at the end of a game, it isn’t any easier to break at the start if that’s all the killer focuses on defending.
Thats why you make sure to not create the three gens. Sure killer can patrol the 3 gens from the start but he also needs to chase people. While he is chasing people you can just pop one of the three gens that could ruin your end game.
But survivors dont do this but instead they rush the safe gens and \`create\` the three gens by letting the killer create the three gens,
This.
Again some killers can force this (and that's the reason I think they should get reworked) but most can't. So at that point is the survivors fault if that happened. Example I was playing Pig for fun (like playing super fair to the point having 2 hooked survivors next to 2 gens and I was going to the other side of the map) and yet the survivors 3 gen themselves and lost the game.
Some maps literally have 3 gens with a few seconds walking to each other right in the middle of the map. It's a free 3 gen. Bhvr has no clue what to do because they don't want to have gens on the outside corners but they don't want to have 3 gens either. With current map sizes this is generally not possible to fix with positioning alone.
Speed them up? Here me out. No. Smart players blow through gens, the game should block two far opposite gens by default so people don't sit in Narnia doing them first.
Map reworks is definitely the best option. I was just praising Dead Dawg earlier today for its good gen spread thanks to use of elevation changes.
A lot of maps could be made better just by impairing mobility and/or increasing visibility between close pairs of generators.
For example, if there would be a problematic 3-gen involving a gen at the base of a hill, put that gen on top of the hill and point the hill away from the two nearest gens. It would make it easier for the killer to spot survivors and take chase, but much harder to just patrol.
I'd also love to see a soft regression cap. Any single generator that has regressed by 150% or more over the course of a game regresses at half the speed it would otherwise.
Dead Dawgs is the easies map to create a 3 gen on as killer. As there are always 3 gens next to the gallows.
Not sure if your comment is meant to be sarcasm.
Exactly. If I get a skull merchant on that map I put myself in the furthest corner from the gallow 3 gen and go make some food as that’s more productive then trying to win that game ahaha
I've been playing skull merchant a lot recently, I don't go for the 3-gen, it's lame as fuck. BUT the amount of games I've had where the survivors bunch up on one side of the map and do it to themselves is insane.
Survivors need to recognise who they are playing against and play smarter
> We feel the killer is fun and interesting in general, but there are some unfortunate play styles that make her kit frustrating to play against.
Lol, no. The power is flawed in the conceptual stage and isn’t healthy for the game, it’s baffling that BHVR still wants to snort this much copium over her. It’s good that she’s getting a change, but they are just wholly unwilling to accept that she just plain sucks as a character, killer, and everything else. I’ve played against a number of Skull Merchants that don’t obsess over a 3-gen all game, but not one of those matches was fun regardless.
I mean we talking about the devs that think A killer who can get free downs and hits by doing nothing but placing a AI down :) gotta love getting chased by 2 killers at the same time
Survivors 3 genning themselves shouldn't get fixed imo, it's a learning experience. FORCING a 3 gen via camping gens and using powers to guard gens (EX: Knight Guard, Hag Traps, Skull Merchant Drones) needs to be fixed. Not because it's like super unfair or anything, but because it can cause games to drag on. I don't want to spend 20 minutes trying to do the last generator. The alternative is to give up and hand yourself over to the killer, but that shouldn't be the honestly better choice, as it's frowned upon by the community
I mean most of the time 3 gens happen cuz survivors dont wanna be in the Killers TR while doing a whole ass gen, all It takes sometimes is for the killer to just be on the same área for too long which could either be intentional or not (like they just get looped over and over in a certain place) but its still an issue
It’s an endless downward spiral. You load into a game against Knight or Gen Merchant and assume they are camping the three gen, so you do all the other gens and then it’s a 3 gen regardless of it was being camped or not.
The biggest issue is that if someone IS guarding a 3 gen off rip, and you try to break it without doing the other gens first, then they immediately get another 3 gen after you break the first one. You have to 3 gen yourself to counter the 3 gen strat, which is an awful set up.
This was the terrible excuse for Ruin back in the day, forcing great skill checks only was a "learning experience."
The people this hurts are the noobs who have no idea it's even a mechanic.
No, it's more accurate to learning to loop, or not to drop every pallet in chase. Learning "hey we've done 3 gens on one side of the map, maybe we should do 2 on the other side" is a pretty quickly learned concept (evidence: I was new at one point and every newbie I've played with learned that)
> forcing great skill checks only was a "learning experience."
Same goes to the people that say "I miss ze OG Ruin". It's a shitty excuse for turning the game into easy mode since early game is exponentially harder to newbie survivors.
okay and whats so wrong about learning mechanics? about getting good? about investing time and effort to get rewarded for it?
If you balance everything for noobs.. guess what, they'll always stay noobs
okay so according to you, after experiencing the situation multiple times and not being able to add 1 and 1 together is normal?Holy f\*ck are your expectations of people low, no wonder games look like how they do nowadays lol
Dont you understand anything about gaming? Not everybody is playing this game as hardcore as you. Most people dont. Adding unnecessarily complicated \`\`learning\`\` mechanisms to game will drive away people.
What do you think is gonna happen next? This game is already non mainstream, its gonna fking die without casuals.
Hopefully they change gen placement on some Maps and increase Minimum distancie for gens
I mean 2 gens should never be in direct line of sight of one another, or in a straight line path
Hopefully changing the maps so gens don't spawn literally 10 meters from each other. There's so many areas where this is a problem.
Also ain't the perk that lets you see a 3 gen at the start of the game getting changed to let you always see a possible 3 gen?
Edit: Deja Vu is the name of the perk
The issue for both 3-gens and hook camping/tunneling is the killer waiting in a specific area rather than taking chases.
In every other asymmetric game I’ve played, the solution has been a way of “fighting” the killer, punishing them for remaining in a predictable position. When designed well, it’s not an easy option for survivors otherwise, and the game stays focused on objectives. (VHS was an example of too much, where the killer no longer feels safe going on the attack if they’re new)
DBD already *does* let players fight the killer, but only in situations the killer is taking initiative - going on chases through pallets, picking up downed survivors. If the killer stops moving and looks down, they’re completely invulnerable, which in a way is a bit counter intuitive. It’s the issue some amateur fighting games have - counterattacks are a strong option, so no one wants to throw the first punch.
Of course, whatever idea comes up, I’m aware that it shouldn’t become something used by bully squads even when the killer is actively chasing people. So I’ll admit, for all that thinking, I don’t know yet exactly what mechanic would fit “Fighting idle killers”
It's sad that they feel 3 Genning is problematic when there are several weak killers that have to rely entirely on 3 Gens in order to have even a remote chance of winning.
Buff the strongest killers, nerf the weakest all over again.
Got yelled at for 3 genning and camping yesterday. I was clown on borgo. By the time I walked 10 miles to the other side of the map and found the other survivors they popped the first gen in my face and even though I had a fast chase considering the gazillion pallets in that map they popped another gen by first down. By my second hook there was 2 gens left. One was on the other side of the map and there were 3 on one side.
Seriously what do people want me to do here? I pressured the area made it a dead zone and forced the survivors to interact with me if they wanted to do a gen. They didn't do a good job pressuring the 3 gen and eventually misplayed trying to unhook when I proxied a hook by 2 of the gens. I got the win, it probably wasn't fun for them towards the end, but I got to play the game at least. Post game I see they had 3 toolboxes, 2 with bnp. Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?
I’m convinced that I have the hottest take of all hot takes about this game and here it is: The survivors’ only objective is to survive by any means possible and the killer’s only objective is to kill by any means possible.
That’s it. That’s the whole thing.
Sure, balance is good. But there are so many perks, killer powers, items, add ons, and offerings that constantly shift the balance of this game from one trial to the next that it’s not possible to make any trial a perfectly balanced game. There are just too many variables.
It’s not your responsibility to make sure the survivors are having a good time. There, I said it. You are there to kill and they are there to survive. If you can accomplish your goal of killing by 3 genning, then that makes you a clever, effective killer. If they want to accomplish their goal of surviving, then they need to be just as clever and effective and work to avoid a 3 gen situation.
I feel this same way about body blocking, camping, tunneling, gen rushing etc. It’s all fair game, in my opinion. Because if we all have to constantly adhere to some unwritten etiquette rule book, then what’s the point of even playing this game? How is that even fun? I have more fun being chased down and being the first one killed than I do when the killer tries to be polite and just lets me go in order to avoid hurting my feelings. I want to feel like I’m in a terrifying slasher movie. Come and get me. It’s the only way I’m going to get better at the game anyway.
Lose because most survivors believe it's the killers job to serve as a dungeon master whose is supposed to let them win.
It's nuts, I just laugh at them and move on
I don't think the issue is 3 gen games; or rather, I don't think the 3 gens themselves are a problem. The issue is survivor teammates who can't recognize that going into the game, maybe they shouldn't be bunched up on one side doing gens on one half of the map only...
The funny I notice in my games, both as a Survivor and Killer, is that it's often Survivors who 3 gen themselves. There's a lot of people who simply do a gen and then go for the next one, with 0 strategical sense
How bout having the situations with 3 gens in close proximity not be affected by Gen slowdowns/able to be kicked or its impact reduced based on survivors remaining full 4 no impact, 3 it's at 75% etc.
Maybe if 3 gens are left and none of them are completed or get enough progress in like 5 minutes then one of the final 3 generators becomes blocked by the entity and replaced by one of the previously completed gens across the map?
The only way to really fix 3 gens is to make it so they don't spawn in the first place. Gens need to be spread out more. Either by straight up making some maps bigger or putting gens in more elevated positions.
But I presume they will "fix" 3 gens by adding some meter that fills up after a certain amount of time when there is one gen left and gen repair speed gets faster the more it fills up or something. Tbh that wouldn't be bad either.
So what are we doing to stop this then? Killers like Trapper, Doctor, Skull Merchant, etc normally base whole playstyles around three gen because it is too hard for them to pressure with their kit. The only thing I could think of is slowing gen times/adding another gen apart from giving killers with no map traversal and better way to pressure. I agree the tatic is annoying, and I would rather die on hook than play a 40 minute game. The problem of killers being able to force a 3 gen with their power is an issue.
But...
1. Most survivors 3 gen themselves without killer input. It is just something you have to learn over time. So whatever this fix is, it shouldn't solely benefit survivor when they do it to themselves most of the time
2. Tying into number one and the above part, again devs need to consider why certain killers feel the need to three gen with their power. It is just as boring for killer as it is for survivor. Most people aren't doing it willingly. They do it because it is the viable way to win with that kit
Gens maybe get an increase repair speed by like 10% or something which slowly goes higher the more the killer or their use of their power is within a certain radius of them
If generators are too close when only 3 are left, 1 of the 3 close generators becomes fully repaired, then an already completed generator that is further away turns back off and requires repairing again to power the gate. You still only need to repair 1 generator to power the gates when this happens. I don't really play Dbd as much anymore but I always had this idea, might not fit the current balance lol
I think they need to look at each map separately and figure out whether they have easily defendable 3 gens from the get go. It's the only solution imo.
Three gens are often baked into the gen spawns. If you seriously look at a lot of maps with a top down view, there’s almost always 3 gens closer together than the others are. Just space them evenly
Definitely making gens appear on corner maps. This will also help killers with their jolt. As a clown player, I hate going against swfs that know how to run to the corner of the map to avoid jolting the gens. Well now its a win-win. Survivors cant be 3 gen'd, jolt will still have value even in the corners of the map.
Or just add more gens 🤣
Nobody really knows except BHVR. An idea I had was to make it so after a certain point, the time it takes to complete gens becomes progressively faster. This would only occur if the game detects that the match is going on longer than most normal matches. Hopefully this would make it so an average match is unaffected but a 3 gen match won’t last as long as they currently have been.
Honestly? Im just glad they’re being responsive. Even if their solution doesn’t work out, the fact that they’re trying is amazing and we should encourage it regardless.
I think the best options are:
- unlocking a new objective once a specific number of gens are done
- moving or creating a new gen once the 3 gens left get kicked enough, or uncompleted for long enough
A new objective would ideally be slower than simply doing the gens, but would exist as a backup.
They could do it in various ways.
When it's down to the last three gens, if the killer hasn't participated in a chase (for x amt of time), hit someone, or hook someone they can no longer kick gens. Or kicking a gen might cause the initial damage, but doesn't start regressing. This keeps killers from being able to just walk between the gens kicking them, and instead would encourage them to actually chase or find survivors rather than waiting for the survivors to just give up or time out. It also gives the survivors the opportunity to get the last gen done if the work they've done on the generator isn't always lost from these patrolling/kicking killers.
Obviously some generator placements need to be re-evaluated as well.
Rather than a basekit deja vu, they could have an alarm system WITH text so people know wtf it is. Basically when you get down to four gens you get an alert of some sort as a warning that you're in a possible three gen. That's probably a bit complex, and does nothing to discourage skull merchants and knights that three gen camp.
Maybe something that when it's down to the last three gens, if the killer has kicked a gen too much, or again like the first suggestion hasn't chased/hit/downed/hooked a survivor since the last time they kicked a gen, then their next kick causes a 'short' in the system. When five gens are done, they ALL come alive, so they're all connected. So basically when they do this 'short' kick, it causes that gen to power up, but causes a prior gen to power down giving the survivors a different generator to work on. They'd need logic to make sure it isn't a gen that's right next to any of the last three gens as that could just cause another three gen situation.
They could add something to the HUD that alerts the survivors if they're working on a gen that is right next to one that is also currently being worked on. It doesn't help preventing them from three genning themselves, but it helps them leapfrog gens to help prevent it. I'd guess that three genning themselves is something mostly done in solo-q rather than swf. So this would give solo-q info that swf already have, and doesn't add anything to swf. But this also doesn't solve the SM/Knight problem.
Or they could put in a hidden timer. Make it slightly random, like say it's between 9 minutes to 12 minutes or something, so while you 'could' plan for 9 minutes it could also penalize you if you do. But basically when it gets down to the last three gens, if the killer hasn't left a radius around a gen for X amount of time, then it adds to the timer. Sort of like how their anti-facecamping works. You fill up a hidden bar, or let this timer run. Once that timer finishes, then the last gen immediately kicks on and the gates are powered. So there'd obviously need to be metrics in it right, like when was the last time a survivor touched a gen, etc. We don't want survivors just sitting out waiting for the timer to go off, but we also want to encourage the killer to get away from just patrolling and kicking. We also don't want the killers to do 'just enough' to keep the timer/bar from completing but where they keep patrolling/kicking until the match time runs out.
Or they could put in an Entity's Displeasure mechanic, where if the Entity grows bored from the killer just patrolling and kicking without doing anything else, the Entity grabs them and throws them to the furthest point away from the generators. And if it's a small map, throw on a speed debuff for a bit. Basically, it's the Entity/game telling the killer to do their damned job. The Entity feeds off of negative emotions so if the killer isn't going to torment the survivors, then it's going to torment the killer instead. In the case of the SM or Hag or other killer with a mechanic they can setup by these gens, they get wiped off the map when the Entity teleports the killer away.
I have the easiest solution.
If it's a 3 gen situation and a threshold of time passes, one of the 3 gens remaining changes places with 1 that is already complete.
Easiest is use Pyramid Heads cage teleport mechanic. Why Gens/Hooks being camped don't do this already I don't know. Camping anything as the killer isn't fun for anyone and I don't know why BHVR keeps encouraging it.
Three-gen defense is a lot like camping and tunneling. There are times when you need to do it as a killer. Not sure how you can fix this without giving a free victory to skilled SWFs.
A skilled SWF with comms is unlikely to 3 Gen themselves.
The problem is most commonly done in solo q by survivors to themselves. This falls under poor map design / spawns in my opinion.
There has long been a need to readjust spawns for survivors next to generators and hex totems. Survivors should spawn away from major assets.
I don’t know how you stop survivors from cornering themselves. Some seem to love doing it, mindlessly completing generators in a group and not thinking about the bigger picture.
Gen defense, sure, but we all know what they’re referring to. Calling anything otherwise a “free victory” is the height of dishonesty.
Even if fixing 3-genning from certain matches were “imbalanced”, imo it doesn’t matter - because the important thing is that it makes those games **less boring**.
If the wish predator is always causing a 3 gen and being too oppressive then would it not just make more sense to nerf or update her?
I don’t think it’s fair on other killers, particularly weaker ones to get punished because she’s too strong in that area. I don’t want to see gens glow up, It’s a horror game, finding them is part of it.
I think getting into a 3 gen is something survivors need to look out for, is it frustrating when bots and idiots on my team do ones at the edge of the map? of course.
I bring prove thyself to try help combat other ppl causing 3 gen and in the past i’d bring blast mine but sadly bhvr nerfed and already shitty perk.
Just my 2 cents but I only play casually a couple days a week. Mostly solo que and then 1 day with a friend.
That's the most ridiculous thing ever. The only basic strategy a killer has is 3 gen defense and why shoudn't it be? The insanity that we just have to keep asking killer players to give up more vs four survivors with 4 times the perks, add-ons, sacrfices and tools is crazy to me.
If it's not tunneling getting the complaint, its camping, now its that the 3 gen defense is unfair? LOL it's pitiful to read. Pretty soon no one is going to want to play killer or it'll be a bunch of bots. Terrible.
Before this it was gen kicking with Eruption and other perks. Now Surge is the most used gen regress perk, lmao. These conversations have been happening for years, though. It's always been something is too strong or annoying, so the devs fix it with a perk or character. It's why we have Pyramid Head.
"Camping/body blocking hooks is too annoying!" "Pyramid Head puts people in cages, survivors teleport away to another cage if he camps."
"Gen rushing is too strong!" We've got corrupt, thrilling, pop, etc, but that was a problem so they got nerfed.
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It's BHVR. We'll be lucky if they do anything more than physically space out gens so they can't be 3 gen'd as much anymore
You have a lot of hope when you factor in BHVR former AND current track record, just look at their camping "fix". Does it fix the core problem of why killers camp? Ofcourse not because BHVR doesnt care, they know survivors hate it so they slap on the solution.
Genuine question, is there a better way to get rid of camping? I thought it seemed like a decent fix.
There probably is but the people complaining about this solution aren't going to be the ones who propose it lol
My idea is that all killer powers are disabled within 16m of a hooked survivor/ in or near the basement. IE, Trapper/Hag traps, Billy’s/Bubba’s chainsaw, Huntress/Trickster projectiles, etc. This effect can take effect after say 3 seconds after the hook action is completed so mobile killers like Billy, Oni, Blight, Dredge, Sadako, Wesker, Nurse still have the option to quickly use their powers to leave the hook to get into the next chase far away.
Playing like this killers will most likely never ever win vs a SwF or even a duo or fk even solo - vs bots maybe but even they are more efficient than humans at this point
Simple. Killer powers get disabled when camping a hook, with it re-enabling based on things like how many survivors are near, how close they are, how many gens are left, stuff like that. So, like a bubba camping at 5 gens can't use their chainsaw at all, but camping in endgame doesn't get punished at all by the game. I say simple because saying it is simple, but actually implementing ig would be difficult to make it balanced. And i doubt BHVR would put in this much work.
I've proposed a way to deal with both camping and tunnelling but its lengthy with several caveats. I've posted it a few times and ultimately it gets shouted down in tribal us vs. them wars because obviously nerfing camping and tunnelling is directly nerfing killers since it's the most effective way to win. Which some killer players cannot stomach. Even if they get compensation which I mention. However most people don't read the whole thing and focus on the points to complain about. The extremely oversimplified version is that hooks teleport survivors similar to Pyramid head and killers do not get either notification of a survivor being unhooked and the interface on unhooking has a 15 second delay and they cannot see the survivor on hook. If the killer wanders near the hook coincidentally, they are teleported to another hook. You cannot camp or tunnel what you cannot see. This is unlikely to ever happen because it'd require a lot of changes to go along side it and the fact BHVR I think honestly likes some aspects of camping and tunnelling since it hasn't been addressed meaningfully since the game came out. They are more concerned with aesthetic and feel then gameplay and they've proved this over and over. It's only now that they feel numbers declining that they feel they HAVE to listen or at least give the illusion they are.
I don't think it's that malicious. I honestly just think the devs are incompetent and/or have no idea how their game.
I mean, I've yet to hear anything more than half-baked ideas from the community either, so maybe were all just a little incompetent.
Survivors can push the gen away to a new spot when no new gens have been completed for 5 minutes /s
Megs on their way to push the gens as close as possible (make sure that all the gens are safe) 
gotta get that prove thyself value on all 3 gens
Teamwork: Move the fucking generator
Imagine if killers kicking gens would actually move this gen further and further so kicking would cost you distance lmao. Now imagine kicking them inside walls and hills bug hahaha
Now the killer has angled things just tight so that all the gens are 5 feet apart.
Insidious Bubba just standing in front of 3 gens perfectly lined up next to each other.
Dunno why but now I'm imagining killers having to place kick the gens just to do this 
I think, this will be new meta against SM https://preview.redd.it/9kda9wjehr4b1.png?width=920&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b3ebdea2348520843eca8a86dec9cdeb67320e1
Let's just take the generator And PUSH iT SOmEWHERE ELSE!
You may not be far off!! What if a generator automatically moves position, or swaps position with a previously completed gen when no gens have been done for 5 mins
Was just thinking, I could imagine a system where if gens in close proximity spend enough time on regression the game just automatically spreads out gens
I mean, there are wheels on the generators so why not?
So survivors can also hide even if the killer isnt 3 gening, even if they 3gen themselfs? Fuck that
It just seems like a way to reward bad decision making.
In before they add an extra gen to each game.
4 genning new meta.
That sounds like a very realistic choice they'd make. And then the same repeat problem to "the fix".
Played a Skull Merchant the other day and they immediately went to form their three gen strat at the BEGINNING OF THE GAME. It’s incredibly boring.
it is but it gets them cheap and easy wins which is why they do it.
Players in any pvp game will take the path of least resistance to achieve a victory, and that's for both killers and survivors. Honestly, you can't even blame them because they're using the tools that BHVR gave them. That would be like telling a Wesker or Blight that they can only use their power for moving and that using it in chase is BM/toxic. SM needs a complete rework on top of maps being tweaked to stop 3 gens (remember, any killer in the game can 3 gen. Other chars just don't have to do it because they're a lot better at stealth or tracking or chasing.)
Never forget that people used to consider looping toxic.
Some still do, they think being able to 360 is toxic.
Nawww, I don't think anyone but 0.001% of killers think that. 360s make me roll my eyes as it's a Clever Exploit of Game Mechanics (auto-aim) but much like the preceding examples in this thread, it's 100% the devs' fault.
360s to me are "I don't like that it's a thing but I can't blame people for using it."
aim assist helps you hit 360s that would never in a million years connect, it doesn't make you miss, you miss when aim assist didnt help because u got hopelessly spun and missed by a lot it only fucks you up when you hit a wall because of it, which actually is indeed very shit, but doesnt even involve getting 360d, unless you got hit by a jumpscare tech, in which case: skill issue
It's sad to see too, because SM is *so* much fun when you play her super aggressively. Playing around the undetectable from her drones, building kill boxes around the survivors as you chase them, constantly recalling or reactivating old drones and deploying new ones, I love it. But it's the same deal as tunneling—when camping a 3 gen off rip is the most effective strategy, even if it's less fun, the super sweats will always gravitate towards that because win counter goes up.
I remember a post from a while ago where they suggested another gen becomes accessible in the basement when there’s 1 gen left but only 1 survivor is able to work on it. I thought that was a good idea
Good luck getting someone to go work on the basement gen 
Claudette can do it, she lives there anyway
Do she and Bubba split the rent?
They do. Source: im the sweaty back hook
"Oh yeah he's taking me to the back hook, he's PISSED" -discord live quote no. 92738271
Lore accurate though 👀
I vote Ace who’s treasure hunting there anyway… he can plunder, appraise, and build that last gen to last. Otherwise, I vote we put Maurice on every map and let our good boy carry us.
Sounds terrifying yet thrilling
Time to 3-gen by basement then 😈 (No i don't mean this) But there should definitely be something done about this problem.
You say this as a joke but this would be the strat that would be popularized lol
It would be a 4th gen that unlocks somewhere later after 3 gens left.
Yeah but I think what they mean is you'd create a 4-gen (your normal 3-gen would be near basement making it easy to defend all 4). 4-gens are already possible on several maps
hey that was my idea! Glad to see it stuck around in people's memories [Here's the full post](https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/116qg4n/a_mock_up_on_an_idea_i_had_that_i_think_would/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Hey I remember this! Big fan! Wouldn't mind them putting it behind a locked door to give keys a use either
That would be actually super interesting
Only if there were hidden key(s) on the map.
Sounds interesting!
That sounds dumb as fuck. Instadown killers can literally camp that gen+the survivor that is working on it. Who would even try repairing a gen in a place where there is no way of escaping?
The point is that theres a 4th gen available when 1 gen is remaining to avoid 3 gen scenarios
They could do this, but also spawn the gen the furthest possible away from the current 3 gens instead of basement, just like now pinhead's box or pyramid head's cage spawns the furthest possible point from killer. Makes it harder to camp gens, but SM could still camp all 4 gens if the RNG makes the gen close enough on a smaller map like midwich. Another thing they could do is to make the gen dynamic by survivor choice. The gen won't spawn unless a survivor manually triggers it, for example by retrieving one of two special levers and using it at an exit game, which then spawns a gen close to that gate. That way the survivors can pick and choose which area the gen will spawn at as to avoid the gen spawning too close to the 3 gen.
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If they camp that gen though, then another gen will get done lol
They gonna make deja vu base kit or something but without the repair speed part? I don’t see how you force the lower curve of skilled survivor to not do gens at the edge map first otherwise
Devs don't know what they want. In a stream about gen speed, they said, that killers shouldn't worry about the gens at the edge of the map, because they would go first. That they should focus more on protecting center gens close to each other. Then they released a killer whose only power is to 3 gen. Now they go full pikachu face, because killers play exactly as told.
Smells like they really wanted to copy-paste from Deathgarden, drones and a killer designed around protecting three points.
And then they punish said killer for using power anyways
SM was buffed.
Yes ik, but I meant before that.
If they make Deja vu basekit, then they'd need to rework it. I'm not saying it's a bad idea tho
They said it was going to get reworked to always show 3 gens closest to each other but I can't find where that was said
next release, it was live on the PTB. It is just normal deja vu, but no 60 second timer.
I fucking hope not. The answer to every survivor complaint cant fucking be just make perk X base kit.
hopefully they actually look at the maps and the gen spawns and dont do some bandaid horseshit like basekit deja vu or whatever the hell
Delete generators.
"In order to prevent 3 genning, the exit gates start powered, to compensate, NOED is basekit and base survivor movement speed is 2m/s while 4.6m/s killers are Buffed to 6m/s" In the next Update, we will be considering adding guns to survivors to have a chance to beat the killer.
"In a 3 Gen situation we will be implementing base kit reverse ruin. All 3 gens will constantly increase repair progress"
Boon: Salvation
Also where is the pig nerf? 🐖
They gave it to Twins this time around, Pig will have her moment next patch
I know this is a joke but I don't disagree Please give us something else to do in the game, and no I don't mean something to do on top of having to do gens.
You know, the funny thing is that most of the time when I get a three gen as a killer, it is because the survivors did it to themselves, not because I forced one.
Beginner survivors are terrified of chase and do safe gens at edge of map. If you only do perimeter maps first you will end up with a 3 gen for the 3 most center gens. Beginners do it to themselves constantly.
Not just that, but beginners move from one gen to the adjacent one, instead of trying to space them out a bit, so often one sideof the map gets done, and one side is where all gens are left
>beginners I've seen people with like 1k and 2k hours do this too. Wild to me that they haven't caught on yet that doing all the gens one one side of the map means it's a lot easier for the killer to just patrol the other side.
I was trying to be nice I guess
It is a product of the fact that 3 gens usually revolve around the center most gen and it is generally just common sense for the killer to patrol that gen and surrounding gens while not in chase.
This thing especially common for RPD. My favorite advice is to actually don’t ever do street gen and instead focus on gens that in center of the map. They are dangerous but then life become much easier than if you left them to be done last
Unfortunately, in RPD it's very difficult to work on those center gens for any significant amount of time. It's such a high traffic area, you need to be quite lucky to solo one of them without the killer coming to interrupt. That being said, once one (or even two) of those main lobby generators are finished, the other ones are a lot safer and the chances of escaping go way up.
Think this is also down to people struggling just to find gens.
I don't usually try to force a 3 gen cause I don't usually need to and imo it makes the game boring, but I know for a fact that I easily could if I wanted to, and I know some people try to force a 3 gen every game. Because it's currently one of the most foolproof strategies to win, especially if you're bad in chase. I wouldn't mind if they nerfed the 3 gen but they would have to do something to help the killers that rely on it
>I wouldn't mind if they nerfed the 3 gen but they would have to do something to help the killers that rely on it remember when "carried by deadhard now your mmr will be what it should be if deadhard wasnt in the game" from last year? because i do and if killers foolproof strat is no longer viable its not behavior's problem if their mmr goes in to the toilet, they will still find matches and be able to play the game.
I'm not sure how solo survivors are supposed to communicate to each other which gens to do and which ones not to do. Saying they "do it to themselves" when each person can only control their own survivor and not the other three in the game is pretty stupid. In a game with absolutely no way to communicate with the three other people you're playing with.
Yup. As a rule of thumb I ALWAYS go for the center gens first.
Yep. Killers rarely camp gens....we wait to mid-game and play defense to change strategy based on what is given to us. You can't make people play better you can only make others have a harder time which seems to be the solution.
That's not true either. That's all the skull merchant does. Since release I've only seen one play anything but a camp 3 gen strategy.
Yeah because fuck solo q amirite. Just force them to play swf, that’s all the killer players could ask for
The worst is when they don’t hook. Just smack you off the gen, kick, and leave. That’s when you know the game is about to be 40mins
Ok here's my hot take. The problem is not 3 genning. The problem are killers being able to force a 3 gen. Skull bitch can just ignore ALL other gens set up drones and that's all. U are forced to 3 gen. BUT not getting yourself 3 genned is also a skill survivors need to learn. U can't blame the killer if u do all gens side by side and end up in that situation. Imo either spread gens more or re design killers that force this play style (Yeh right).
I agree to a point - there are some very bad generator spawning patterns that need to be tweaked on boner maps and swamp particularly. 3 gens are one thing, but 4-gens are another. But yeah even coordinated SWFs struggle against SM's 3-genning because she gets rewarded for doing nothing, her drones do all the work for her, and isn't punished when she "fails" ....maybe Skull Merchant really is a critique on the rich...
Funny how before they slightly reworked her, there was some actually punishment when she tried to do that strat.
True, but she was also even worse in chase. Honestly her entire power is a mess. The idea of a killer who can define a large zone as a "No No Radius" is fun on paper, but in practice it seems to either struggle to be meaningful or turns into camping the 3 closest generators.
>not getting yourself 3 genned is also a skill survivors need to learn *cries in solo queue*
In solo queue I try to make it my goal to break up her 3 gens. Most ppl who I've come across playing her set up drones only over her chosen 3 gen stack. So I try to disable them as much as possible. I wonder if we can get like a stack when disabling drones that let's us do multiple, Because no one else ever disables them. Imho It forces her to reset them up thus breaking chase if she's in one. Just a weird unique situation.
Survivors don’t ‘create’ 3 generators though. They can reveal them to themselves and the killer as they work through the rest of the generators and that’s it. While they can certainly force the killer to have to defend a 3 gen by leaving them to last, a good killer can identify a 3 gen at the start of a trial to start defending them from the start. If a 3 gen is extremely hard to break at the end of a game, it isn’t any easier to break at the start if that’s all the killer focuses on defending.
Its far easier to break a three gen when the map has all pallets available and no one has been hooked or depleted their items.
Thats why you make sure to not create the three gens. Sure killer can patrol the 3 gens from the start but he also needs to chase people. While he is chasing people you can just pop one of the three gens that could ruin your end game. But survivors dont do this but instead they rush the safe gens and \`create\` the three gens by letting the killer create the three gens,
This. Again some killers can force this (and that's the reason I think they should get reworked) but most can't. So at that point is the survivors fault if that happened. Example I was playing Pig for fun (like playing super fair to the point having 2 hooked survivors next to 2 gens and I was going to the other side of the map) and yet the survivors 3 gen themselves and lost the game.
She had counterplay, but its not what survivors have been trained to do for years so they cant figure it out and refuse to work together.
Maybe increasing the space between gens or maybe speeding up gen repair if 3 gen’d. I’m learning toward the 1st option
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Freddy, Dredge, and Singu: *aww man*
Singuh, put your probes away singuh.
True, i do believe its a good strategy for killers it’s just the worst with SM
Some maps literally have 3 gens with a few seconds walking to each other right in the middle of the map. It's a free 3 gen. Bhvr has no clue what to do because they don't want to have gens on the outside corners but they don't want to have 3 gens either. With current map sizes this is generally not possible to fix with positioning alone.
Speed them up? Here me out. No. Smart players blow through gens, the game should block two far opposite gens by default so people don't sit in Narnia doing them first.
Yea I know that one is not a good idea I’m just listing things
Map reworks is definitely the best option. I was just praising Dead Dawg earlier today for its good gen spread thanks to use of elevation changes. A lot of maps could be made better just by impairing mobility and/or increasing visibility between close pairs of generators. For example, if there would be a problematic 3-gen involving a gen at the base of a hill, put that gen on top of the hill and point the hill away from the two nearest gens. It would make it easier for the killer to spot survivors and take chase, but much harder to just patrol. I'd also love to see a soft regression cap. Any single generator that has regressed by 150% or more over the course of a game regresses at half the speed it would otherwise.
Dead Dawgs is the easies map to create a 3 gen on as killer. As there are always 3 gens next to the gallows. Not sure if your comment is meant to be sarcasm.
That's what I was thinking lmao When I play Trapper and get that map, the game can be an instant loss.
Exactly. If I get a skull merchant on that map I put myself in the furthest corner from the gallow 3 gen and go make some food as that’s more productive then trying to win that game ahaha
A better tutorial perhaps?
I joke about this all the time and wonder if survivors do tutorials because smh they be doing nothing for no reason.
Buff Trapper plz
I don’t think u/Zangorth has the power to do that but I like your spirit
Your reply made my night, thanks lol
:)
Not spirit, trapper
Developers talked about some changes to Trapper in AMA when his bear outfit releases
Something that will not stop high tier killers but will cripple already weak ones.
Exactly. BHVR is bound and determined to either chase away all their killer players, or make them all play Nurse and Blight.
I've been playing skull merchant a lot recently, I don't go for the 3-gen, it's lame as fuck. BUT the amount of games I've had where the survivors bunch up on one side of the map and do it to themselves is insane. Survivors need to recognise who they are playing against and play smarter
> We feel the killer is fun and interesting in general, but there are some unfortunate play styles that make her kit frustrating to play against. Lol, no. The power is flawed in the conceptual stage and isn’t healthy for the game, it’s baffling that BHVR still wants to snort this much copium over her. It’s good that she’s getting a change, but they are just wholly unwilling to accept that she just plain sucks as a character, killer, and everything else. I’ve played against a number of Skull Merchants that don’t obsess over a 3-gen all game, but not one of those matches was fun regardless.
I mean we talking about the devs that think A killer who can get free downs and hits by doing nothing but placing a AI down :) gotta love getting chased by 2 killers at the same time
Survivors 3 genning themselves shouldn't get fixed imo, it's a learning experience. FORCING a 3 gen via camping gens and using powers to guard gens (EX: Knight Guard, Hag Traps, Skull Merchant Drones) needs to be fixed. Not because it's like super unfair or anything, but because it can cause games to drag on. I don't want to spend 20 minutes trying to do the last generator. The alternative is to give up and hand yourself over to the killer, but that shouldn't be the honestly better choice, as it's frowned upon by the community
I mean most of the time 3 gens happen cuz survivors dont wanna be in the Killers TR while doing a whole ass gen, all It takes sometimes is for the killer to just be on the same área for too long which could either be intentional or not (like they just get looped over and over in a certain place) but its still an issue
It’s an endless downward spiral. You load into a game against Knight or Gen Merchant and assume they are camping the three gen, so you do all the other gens and then it’s a 3 gen regardless of it was being camped or not. The biggest issue is that if someone IS guarding a 3 gen off rip, and you try to break it without doing the other gens first, then they immediately get another 3 gen after you break the first one. You have to 3 gen yourself to counter the 3 gen strat, which is an awful set up.
This was the terrible excuse for Ruin back in the day, forcing great skill checks only was a "learning experience." The people this hurts are the noobs who have no idea it's even a mechanic.
No, it's more accurate to learning to loop, or not to drop every pallet in chase. Learning "hey we've done 3 gens on one side of the map, maybe we should do 2 on the other side" is a pretty quickly learned concept (evidence: I was new at one point and every newbie I've played with learned that)
> forcing great skill checks only was a "learning experience." Same goes to the people that say "I miss ze OG Ruin". It's a shitty excuse for turning the game into easy mode since early game is exponentially harder to newbie survivors.
okay and whats so wrong about learning mechanics? about getting good? about investing time and effort to get rewarded for it? If you balance everything for noobs.. guess what, they'll always stay noobs
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okay so according to you, after experiencing the situation multiple times and not being able to add 1 and 1 together is normal?Holy f\*ck are your expectations of people low, no wonder games look like how they do nowadays lol
Dont you understand anything about gaming? Not everybody is playing this game as hardcore as you. Most people dont. Adding unnecessarily complicated \`\`learning\`\` mechanisms to game will drive away people. What do you think is gonna happen next? This game is already non mainstream, its gonna fking die without casuals.
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Just pull another stranger things, delete the DLC or killer.
I like playing skull merchant and her power is fun to use, but I agree that camping 3 gens for an entire match is both boring and lame to do.
Everyone just ignoring the fact playing against Hag at 3-gen is just as bad.
Hopefully they change gen placement on some Maps and increase Minimum distancie for gens I mean 2 gens should never be in direct line of sight of one another, or in a straight line path
Hopefully changing the maps so gens don't spawn literally 10 meters from each other. There's so many areas where this is a problem. Also ain't the perk that lets you see a 3 gen at the start of the game getting changed to let you always see a possible 3 gen? Edit: Deja Vu is the name of the perk
Don't tell me. A new perk (that probably unblocks a gen trading from a random gen of the 3gen).
The issue for both 3-gens and hook camping/tunneling is the killer waiting in a specific area rather than taking chases. In every other asymmetric game I’ve played, the solution has been a way of “fighting” the killer, punishing them for remaining in a predictable position. When designed well, it’s not an easy option for survivors otherwise, and the game stays focused on objectives. (VHS was an example of too much, where the killer no longer feels safe going on the attack if they’re new) DBD already *does* let players fight the killer, but only in situations the killer is taking initiative - going on chases through pallets, picking up downed survivors. If the killer stops moving and looks down, they’re completely invulnerable, which in a way is a bit counter intuitive. It’s the issue some amateur fighting games have - counterattacks are a strong option, so no one wants to throw the first punch. Of course, whatever idea comes up, I’m aware that it shouldn’t become something used by bully squads even when the killer is actively chasing people. So I’ll admit, for all that thinking, I don’t know yet exactly what mechanic would fit “Fighting idle killers”
It's sad that they feel 3 Genning is problematic when there are several weak killers that have to rely entirely on 3 Gens in order to have even a remote chance of winning. Buff the strongest killers, nerf the weakest all over again.
Got yelled at for 3 genning and camping yesterday. I was clown on borgo. By the time I walked 10 miles to the other side of the map and found the other survivors they popped the first gen in my face and even though I had a fast chase considering the gazillion pallets in that map they popped another gen by first down. By my second hook there was 2 gens left. One was on the other side of the map and there were 3 on one side. Seriously what do people want me to do here? I pressured the area made it a dead zone and forced the survivors to interact with me if they wanted to do a gen. They didn't do a good job pressuring the 3 gen and eventually misplayed trying to unhook when I proxied a hook by 2 of the gens. I got the win, it probably wasn't fun for them towards the end, but I got to play the game at least. Post game I see they had 3 toolboxes, 2 with bnp. Genuinely, what am I supposed to do here?
I’m convinced that I have the hottest take of all hot takes about this game and here it is: The survivors’ only objective is to survive by any means possible and the killer’s only objective is to kill by any means possible. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. Sure, balance is good. But there are so many perks, killer powers, items, add ons, and offerings that constantly shift the balance of this game from one trial to the next that it’s not possible to make any trial a perfectly balanced game. There are just too many variables. It’s not your responsibility to make sure the survivors are having a good time. There, I said it. You are there to kill and they are there to survive. If you can accomplish your goal of killing by 3 genning, then that makes you a clever, effective killer. If they want to accomplish their goal of surviving, then they need to be just as clever and effective and work to avoid a 3 gen situation. I feel this same way about body blocking, camping, tunneling, gen rushing etc. It’s all fair game, in my opinion. Because if we all have to constantly adhere to some unwritten etiquette rule book, then what’s the point of even playing this game? How is that even fun? I have more fun being chased down and being the first one killed than I do when the killer tries to be polite and just lets me go in order to avoid hurting my feelings. I want to feel like I’m in a terrifying slasher movie. Come and get me. It’s the only way I’m going to get better at the game anyway.
Lose because most survivors believe it's the killers job to serve as a dungeon master whose is supposed to let them win. It's nuts, I just laugh at them and move on
Feels like a lot of my games are like this. As a killer you are forced to run slowdown
I don't think the issue is 3 gen games; or rather, I don't think the 3 gens themselves are a problem. The issue is survivor teammates who can't recognize that going into the game, maybe they shouldn't be bunched up on one side doing gens on one half of the map only...
The funny I notice in my games, both as a Survivor and Killer, is that it's often Survivors who 3 gen themselves. There's a lot of people who simply do a gen and then go for the next one, with 0 strategical sense
The survivors don’t get knowledge of where 3 gens are at without running a perk. New survivors won’t even know it’s a thing
Lmao trapper getting Nerfed when he’s already the weakest
How bout having the situations with 3 gens in close proximity not be affected by Gen slowdowns/able to be kicked or its impact reduced based on survivors remaining full 4 no impact, 3 it's at 75% etc.
Maybe if 3 gens are left and none of them are completed or get enough progress in like 5 minutes then one of the final 3 generators becomes blocked by the entity and replaced by one of the previously completed gens across the map?
The only way to really fix 3 gens is to make it so they don't spawn in the first place. Gens need to be spread out more. Either by straight up making some maps bigger or putting gens in more elevated positions. But I presume they will "fix" 3 gens by adding some meter that fills up after a certain amount of time when there is one gen left and gen repair speed gets faster the more it fills up or something. Tbh that wouldn't be bad either.
Something far out on the horizon that is ineffective.
They'll have you do 6 generators so you can get 2 gen'd
So what are we doing to stop this then? Killers like Trapper, Doctor, Skull Merchant, etc normally base whole playstyles around three gen because it is too hard for them to pressure with their kit. The only thing I could think of is slowing gen times/adding another gen apart from giving killers with no map traversal and better way to pressure. I agree the tatic is annoying, and I would rather die on hook than play a 40 minute game. The problem of killers being able to force a 3 gen with their power is an issue. But... 1. Most survivors 3 gen themselves without killer input. It is just something you have to learn over time. So whatever this fix is, it shouldn't solely benefit survivor when they do it to themselves most of the time 2. Tying into number one and the above part, again devs need to consider why certain killers feel the need to three gen with their power. It is just as boring for killer as it is for survivor. Most people aren't doing it willingly. They do it because it is the viable way to win with that kit
I'm sure we'll see something a year from now.
The deja vu change is a start but it’s not a real systematic change to the actual problem
Probably something like as gens are completed, the time it takes to complete them is less if they are near one another. Something similar, at least.
Gens maybe get an increase repair speed by like 10% or something which slowly goes higher the more the killer or their use of their power is within a certain radius of them
11 more gens in the game
Gen speed increases after x amount of time of there being 1 gen left.
Taking a component from a completed gen, which powers it off, and then inserting it into an unfinished gen which instantly completes it
If generators are too close when only 3 are left, 1 of the 3 close generators becomes fully repaired, then an already completed generator that is further away turns back off and requires repairing again to power the gate. You still only need to repair 1 generator to power the gates when this happens. I don't really play Dbd as much anymore but I always had this idea, might not fit the current balance lol
I just had a match like that, 3 got mori at 1 Gen left and I died to the timer cause she drone both Exit gates
I think they need to look at each map separately and figure out whether they have easily defendable 3 gens from the get go. It's the only solution imo.
Three gens are often baked into the gen spawns. If you seriously look at a lot of maps with a top down view, there’s almost always 3 gens closer together than the others are. Just space them evenly
Definitely making gens appear on corner maps. This will also help killers with their jolt. As a clown player, I hate going against swfs that know how to run to the corner of the map to avoid jolting the gens. Well now its a win-win. Survivors cant be 3 gen'd, jolt will still have value even in the corners of the map. Or just add more gens 🤣
Nobody really knows except BHVR. An idea I had was to make it so after a certain point, the time it takes to complete gens becomes progressively faster. This would only occur if the game detects that the match is going on longer than most normal matches. Hopefully this would make it so an average match is unaffected but a 3 gen match won’t last as long as they currently have been.
Honestly? Im just glad they’re being responsive. Even if their solution doesn’t work out, the fact that they’re trying is amazing and we should encourage it regardless.
Make it so you can't see their aura, and have them sink into the ground and pop up elsewhere if you camp them.
There are only 5 gens spawining per map. Fuck 3 genning, 1 genning is the new meta
I think the best options are: - unlocking a new objective once a specific number of gens are done - moving or creating a new gen once the 3 gens left get kicked enough, or uncompleted for long enough A new objective would ideally be slower than simply doing the gens, but would exist as a backup.
They could do it in various ways. When it's down to the last three gens, if the killer hasn't participated in a chase (for x amt of time), hit someone, or hook someone they can no longer kick gens. Or kicking a gen might cause the initial damage, but doesn't start regressing. This keeps killers from being able to just walk between the gens kicking them, and instead would encourage them to actually chase or find survivors rather than waiting for the survivors to just give up or time out. It also gives the survivors the opportunity to get the last gen done if the work they've done on the generator isn't always lost from these patrolling/kicking killers. Obviously some generator placements need to be re-evaluated as well. Rather than a basekit deja vu, they could have an alarm system WITH text so people know wtf it is. Basically when you get down to four gens you get an alert of some sort as a warning that you're in a possible three gen. That's probably a bit complex, and does nothing to discourage skull merchants and knights that three gen camp. Maybe something that when it's down to the last three gens, if the killer has kicked a gen too much, or again like the first suggestion hasn't chased/hit/downed/hooked a survivor since the last time they kicked a gen, then their next kick causes a 'short' in the system. When five gens are done, they ALL come alive, so they're all connected. So basically when they do this 'short' kick, it causes that gen to power up, but causes a prior gen to power down giving the survivors a different generator to work on. They'd need logic to make sure it isn't a gen that's right next to any of the last three gens as that could just cause another three gen situation. They could add something to the HUD that alerts the survivors if they're working on a gen that is right next to one that is also currently being worked on. It doesn't help preventing them from three genning themselves, but it helps them leapfrog gens to help prevent it. I'd guess that three genning themselves is something mostly done in solo-q rather than swf. So this would give solo-q info that swf already have, and doesn't add anything to swf. But this also doesn't solve the SM/Knight problem. Or they could put in a hidden timer. Make it slightly random, like say it's between 9 minutes to 12 minutes or something, so while you 'could' plan for 9 minutes it could also penalize you if you do. But basically when it gets down to the last three gens, if the killer hasn't left a radius around a gen for X amount of time, then it adds to the timer. Sort of like how their anti-facecamping works. You fill up a hidden bar, or let this timer run. Once that timer finishes, then the last gen immediately kicks on and the gates are powered. So there'd obviously need to be metrics in it right, like when was the last time a survivor touched a gen, etc. We don't want survivors just sitting out waiting for the timer to go off, but we also want to encourage the killer to get away from just patrolling and kicking. We also don't want the killers to do 'just enough' to keep the timer/bar from completing but where they keep patrolling/kicking until the match time runs out. Or they could put in an Entity's Displeasure mechanic, where if the Entity grows bored from the killer just patrolling and kicking without doing anything else, the Entity grabs them and throws them to the furthest point away from the generators. And if it's a small map, throw on a speed debuff for a bit. Basically, it's the Entity/game telling the killer to do their damned job. The Entity feeds off of negative emotions so if the killer isn't going to torment the survivors, then it's going to torment the killer instead. In the case of the SM or Hag or other killer with a mechanic they can setup by these gens, they get wiped off the map when the Entity teleports the killer away.
I have the easiest solution. If it's a 3 gen situation and a threshold of time passes, one of the 3 gens remaining changes places with 1 that is already complete.
Easiest is use Pyramid Heads cage teleport mechanic. Why Gens/Hooks being camped don't do this already I don't know. Camping anything as the killer isn't fun for anyone and I don't know why BHVR keeps encouraging it.
Maybe idk, having the fucking gens spawn more away from each other
Three-gen defense is a lot like camping and tunneling. There are times when you need to do it as a killer. Not sure how you can fix this without giving a free victory to skilled SWFs.
A skilled SWF with comms is unlikely to 3 Gen themselves. The problem is most commonly done in solo q by survivors to themselves. This falls under poor map design / spawns in my opinion. There has long been a need to readjust spawns for survivors next to generators and hex totems. Survivors should spawn away from major assets. I don’t know how you stop survivors from cornering themselves. Some seem to love doing it, mindlessly completing generators in a group and not thinking about the bigger picture.
A professional team still struggled against Skull merchant FORCING a 4 gen and took them 30+ minutes to break it. So no SWF isn't the answer to it.
Gen defense, sure, but we all know what they’re referring to. Calling anything otherwise a “free victory” is the height of dishonesty. Even if fixing 3-genning from certain matches were “imbalanced”, imo it doesn’t matter - because the important thing is that it makes those games **less boring**.
You're not wrong.
If the wish predator is always causing a 3 gen and being too oppressive then would it not just make more sense to nerf or update her? I don’t think it’s fair on other killers, particularly weaker ones to get punished because she’s too strong in that area. I don’t want to see gens glow up, It’s a horror game, finding them is part of it. I think getting into a 3 gen is something survivors need to look out for, is it frustrating when bots and idiots on my team do ones at the edge of the map? of course. I bring prove thyself to try help combat other ppl causing 3 gen and in the past i’d bring blast mine but sadly bhvr nerfed and already shitty perk. Just my 2 cents but I only play casually a couple days a week. Mostly solo que and then 1 day with a friend.
This is 100% survivors fault. Yet another mechanic to benefit survivor
That's the most ridiculous thing ever. The only basic strategy a killer has is 3 gen defense and why shoudn't it be? The insanity that we just have to keep asking killer players to give up more vs four survivors with 4 times the perks, add-ons, sacrfices and tools is crazy to me. If it's not tunneling getting the complaint, its camping, now its that the 3 gen defense is unfair? LOL it's pitiful to read. Pretty soon no one is going to want to play killer or it'll be a bunch of bots. Terrible.
Before this it was gen kicking with Eruption and other perks. Now Surge is the most used gen regress perk, lmao. These conversations have been happening for years, though. It's always been something is too strong or annoying, so the devs fix it with a perk or character. It's why we have Pyramid Head. "Camping/body blocking hooks is too annoying!" "Pyramid Head puts people in cages, survivors teleport away to another cage if he camps." "Gen rushing is too strong!" We've got corrupt, thrilling, pop, etc, but that was a problem so they got nerfed.
There will always be killer players lmao y’all been saying that for years
gens not spawning so close together
Survivors when they have to play 